Star Trek: 10 Behind The Scenes Decisions We Can't Forgive
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- Running a multimedia franchise is hard, but we have notes.
Read the article here: whatculture.com/tv/star-trek-...
#StarTrek #BehindTheScenes #TeamVidiian - Zábava
Jeffrey Combs was the best recurring character(s) in the entire franchise.
yes
Absolutely 👏🏻
"Brunt,...FCA." You're right, all his roles are awesome in some way or another.
He is my fave Star Trek Actor!!! I am a total fan. I wish they had a T shirt that has his name and pics of all the characters he played kinda like the Garak shirt.
Barclay was good, too. But one good character just can't compete against Shran and Weyoun and the others, lol.
Enterprise has an unforgivable last episode. The main cast are treated like guest stars in their own show, they kill off one of its most popular characters without any emotional payoff, and they could have spent the final season building up to the creation of the Federation instead of trying to force it all in 1 shot.
They had to rush to put that together... They had a very limited time to come up with an ending.
100% Correct. I can't forgive that this video didn't mention this.
I was no fan of Enterprise, but it in no way deserved that ending. I hope it was a lesson learned on how not to end a series.
They had something like two weeks to throw it together. It was almost as sudden as the decision to can Firefly. Did that episode suck? Yeah. Do the writers, crew, and cast deserve the blame? No.
Trip faked his death in order to join Section 31 in the lead up to the Earth-Romulan War
For me: Neelix's character was caught wildly swinging between naive teenager and competent ship Captain who had interacted with many species and had his own salvage business.
I thought that was becasue of the truama he went through becasue of the war
@@dustyrose192 That would have removed the naivety altogether.
I thought he lacked any real depth and came off rather cartoonish
I actually liked the crossover between the two ferengi that got lost in TNG and the two that Voyager runs into in Voyager. However, that should have been one of an extremely few crossovers
I didn't mind the Voyager episode with the Ferengi, as they were already established to have gone to the Delta Quadrant. It was a nice callback for loyal viewers. The other old faces, though, I can't a tightly justify.
I thought the Romulan episode was kind of cool.
@@seraphimvalkyrin4543 Which?
@@seraphimvalkyrin4543 Eye of the Needle? I liked it. Over all I do feel the show did wasted opportunities. Character development wasn't nearly as good as it could have of been either. Wasted opportunities everywhere.
@@seraphimvalkyrin4543 I also liked the Romulan episode. It had a great build up for the crew finding a route home, and then when it was revealed that the wormhole not only traversed space, but also time, the disappointment in the crew was palpable.
@@seraphimvalkyrin4543 I thought they over did that one but all in all it was good.
The Ferengi actually payed off a plot point from an episode of The Next Generation where an unstable wormhole was stationary in the alpha quadrant, but opened up randomly between the delta and gamma quadrant which stranded those Ferengi in the delta quadrant where Voyager ment them. It's a very rare instance of continuity in star trek, voyager especially.
*paid.
@@tanyairwin3695 you took the time to correct someone’s spelling from a year ago? Not cool.
@@MrCosmonty it doesn't matter how long it's been.
@@MrCosmonty I think it's pretty rad.
@@MrCosmonty I’m here four months after your post to tell you that @Tanya Irwin is doing the lord’s work and fighting the good fight.
Actually the Ferengi that were in Voyager were just playing on the seeds planted in TNG and to be honest I thought it was a fun episode
That's exactly their point. But yes it was quite fun.
It was and it did resolve something. Besides, the Ferengi are an interesting race who needed more development.
@@maximum_bird I really disliked the Ferengi, until I saw DS9. That gave much deeper Ferengi characters.
@@MrSpacelyy I hear you. The introduction of Ferengi in the earlier series left a lot to be desired. I did enjoy the episode where they stranded themselves in the Delta Quadrant and how VOY wrapped up that story nicely.
@@maximum_bird I agree that was a good satisfyinh wrapup
That one episode of Voyager when Tom Paris hits Warp 10, kidnaps Janeway, then both turn into fish and have... spawn....
They looked more like amphibians/reptiles than fish.
The episode is "Threashold". I can tell you as a ST:VOY fan that we do not talk about that episode...
lol. Warp 10 apparently triggers super speed evolution!!!???
The only part of *that* episode worth watching is Jonas plotting with the Kazon and Seska.
In the original series in the episode “by any other name” the ship reaches warp 15 and no shit happens. 🤷🏻♂️
Um, to be honest, I never even knew about or ever even noticed the Enterprise vs StarTrekEnterprise naming difference until you mentioned it.
I kinda remember when it came out that the showrunners said they didn't want to intimidate new fans from coming in late to the series, so they didn't use Star Trek in the title. In theory, It was supposed to stand on its own as a sci-fi show & not just a Star Trek spinoff. Which explained why it disregarded canon sometimes.
I thought that was stupid lol Why pay all that money for an IP and then not fully use it? They'd also have an exisiting Trekkie fan base right out of the gate. Slap the name Star Trek all over it & capitalize on it!
Did you watch the show when it was still new on the air? You would only notice that then
@@MedalionDS9 I did! Devotedly, in fact. I just never noticed! ;-)
@@Singlade Fair enough, sometimes my mind would just auto insert Star Trek above ENTERPRISE so it never felt out of place to me
But like that REALLY matters... it’s just a damn title... if they had paid more attention to the quality of the show rather than how to call it, maybe it wouldn’t have been cancelled so soon
Got to say, they didn't have to do Tripp dirty in Enterprise
He was the best character in the show. Spiritual predecessor of McCoy and a damned good engineer. They could have ended it with him becoming captain not killed off anyone. Alas, Beta canon tried to rectify his death.
The Kelvin time line always existed, like our own. Spock and the Romulans skipped out of ours and went in to theirs. Like the" Mirror Mirror" episode.
Trip got crapped on in one episode. Harry Kim got crapped on for 5 years. Puts things into perspective, yes?
@@johnbockelie3899 No, the writers and producers of 'Trek' just ran out of imagination and good will in their hearts and embraced violence and going "into darkness."
@@oddish4352 Well, Wang kind of deserved it with his occasional slack and sloppy behavior, that stopped his desire to direct an episode cold, and far more importantly, would have seen him depart the show, save for about the most meaningless accolade imaginable(#20 something in People's annual sexiest men issue), and likely an anticipation of a pushback in cashiering an Asian-American actor, when so few of them were in evidence. So Jennifer Lien was not extended, a very tragic outcome, in a number of senses, that doesn't bear going into here.
Enterprise was underrated honestly. I've been watching it recently instead of Discovery and it really has the heart that the original series and TNG had. Interesting stories and a bit camp. It also fills in a load of interesting stories that haven't been told in the show's universe. It wasn't TNG but that was lightning in a bottle but it was excellent sci-fi and it's something that were are missing in modern Star Trek shows.
I think ENT, overall, is better than TNG. I certainly like the crew better. I do prefer Picard/Stewart as a captain over Archer/Bakula, but other than that I'd much rather be on a ship with the ENT crew than the TNG crew. I also enjoy most of the ENT episodes and story arcs over TNG. I know that's heresy, but I have been a Trekkie since 1966. I was excited to see TNG premier back in 1987, but after a few episodes, I was disappointed and with a few exceptions of certain episodes and one of the movies, I just couldn't get into the series.
@@GoGreen1977 Archer was the *first* captain of the *first* starship, got to give him some slack, he had no example/role model to follow. Kinda hard to be in his position.
Agree. Enterprise was an excellent series, but a less well known actor for Captain Archer might have been better.
Same! I loved seeing the first enterprise when starfleet was much more of a military organization. Watching familiar Federation principals developing throughout the series was so satisfying!
I am surprised that no one here mentioned killing off Jadzia in DS9.
IIRC that wasn't a creative decision, but a consequence of Berman beeing an ass towards Farrell
@@NixLaser Or, if you look deeper into it, removing an unliked cast member.
I wished they would have killed her off in the first episode. She was a horrendous character and in my opinion, not a good actress
I agree, she was a great character.
That wasn’t the producers. Terry Farrell wanted out from the show.
Concerning Kes, considering her life span, she is about 20 earth years old. The Ocampa have a normal life span of 9 years. Which mean they age much faster than humans. I would think this would mean they learn much faster as well. By Ocampan standards she is an adult or extremely close to it regardless of her chronological age. Because of that, I have no problem with her relationship with Neelix and do not believe it is improper.
If Ocampans waited until they were at the human age of consent, their species would cease to exist very quickly.
The argument is pretty dumb. The character matches the age of the actress who plays her. I'm glad they got rid of Kes when they did, though. I found her much more annoying than Neelix. Neelix gets a lot of bashing, but he is good for an occasional chuckle, without which the show would probably be somewhat flat.
Balloon Systems : it’s good to know that someone else feels that the Kes character was cringe-worthy at times (not the actress, just the way the writers wrote for her to be). The relationship between Kes and Neelix didn’t seem real, like they were just going thru the motions of being a couple.
@@slcRN1971 One thing you can say for Voyager, they gravitated toward stories focused on characters that people liked, and set aside or eliminated characters who were less liked.
@@balloonsystems8778 In this case, the age of the character does *NOT* match the age of the actress portraying her. The Actress is some 24 or 25 years old. The character is 2 years old. A 24 or 25 year old Ocompan would be a decaying skeleton that had been dead for 15 years.
Killing off Hugh in Picard was totally unforgivable.....
It was pointless too in my opinion since the only thing it added was the revenge turmoil for Seven later, and they didn't even tell Jonathan Del Arco until very shortly before filming. His breakdowns in that episode were unplanned and real emotion. There was so much more potential for the character if he lived. I also felt the Icheb scene was pointlessly gory and over the top. Overall I loved Picard though.
Agreed! It's not that no beloved characters should be killed, but the way they are done in is very disappointing; in a couple of a minutes and their death without any contribution to the story! If, instead of watching Soji and Narek in bed, we learned more about Hugh's work and possibly struggles on the Borg Cube (with Soji's story just hinted on as she later becomes a leading character), his death wouldn't have been wasted. The same goes for Trip, Data ( at least ST Picard did something beautiful in that respect),
@@zunnoab well one of them had to die to drive 7, but icheb was definitely the more logical choice because his closeness to seven. I too think Hugh should have lived.
@@PmmGarak Yeah my main problem with the Icheb scene was the over the top gore. That's not what I watch Star Trek for.
and Icheb
I don't think Into Darkness lost momentum by being released 4 years after the previous movie, to be fair. I think it did it by being a bit shit.
well put. i did like the third one tho.
I agree, a shit story with great special effects and great acting (IMHO). Any first-year drama student would have their ears pinned back for daring to submit such a crappy and poorly conceived pile of plagiarism.
We have to hide our interstellar spaceship from a tribe of neandertal-aliens. Where is the best place for that?
- Underwater near a cliff directly next to that tribe´s territory!
Really, WHO WROTE THAT BS? That is not the only insane (not in the good way!) idea, but just alone this one plot point should have led to the writer being laughed out of the building! And the script thrown into a garbage bin and set on fire!
@@RogerValor nothing screams Star Trek more than sick motorcycle tricks!
Exactly.
Hollywood: we need a franchise that can last for decades and make us millions
Also Hollywood: screws up Star Trek.
In Picard: Killing Icheb for his cortical implant he did not have. Icheb chose to give up his cortical implant to Seven so that she could survive.
Do they actually say that on the show (Picard)? What parts they were harvesting? If so you're totally right. But, the cortical node was actually a tube that came out of the forehead, not the eyeball, so it's possible it's not an error if the eyeball is what you were thinking of.
they addressed it in the episode as in they didnt find it inside him.
If I was making the list, Killing Icheb would be number one.
@@matthewolson2308 pretty sure it had something to do with the controversial things Manu has posted on social media.
The biggest mistake Star Trek keeps making is going into the past, as far as series, as opposed to the future.
Ardenwolfe YES! thank you. Discovery should have taken place after the events of NEMESIS, hell even after Picard timeline. Nostalgia-bait and the obligatory tech retcon just don’t work. Either that or just be KELVIN like it clearly wants to be.
Aon Arts so Pike’s stranger worlds adventures will coincide into the Kelvin timeline
Past, present or future does not matter. Good storytelling that is faithful to what Star Trek is, is all that matters.
Troy McClure yeah that’s why I like Orville over enterprise
@@Usernumber777 Thank you. I think that The Orville is the best Star Trek since Babylon 5.
Actually William Shatner found it quite amusing; he was one of those that joked about after all the years on the bridge the bridge ended up on him.
He should have said his own fat ass is what made the ramp collapse
It really bugged me that Abrahams blew up Vulcan!
Also in that movie you wonder why Nero didn't go straight to that realitys Romulus and give them the heads up about their sun
@@paulmallon9033 well he wasnt trying to protect romulus he was trying to kill spock. And would the romulans really believe some random man was from the future ? I dont that's just my reasoning, anyway have a nice day.
Stupid poseurs screwing with culture to make their own mark. You see it too with other writers and directors who use names of famous movies for their own, or Tarantino glomming soundtrack music from older famous films for himself. Cheap, tacky, talentless crapola.
@@RideAcrossTheRiver ah yes using older music in a soundtrack truly the sign of creative bankruptcy ...... lol whut dude every movie released ever has had older music from somewhere in it
@@NaatClark I never saw any movie that used the soundtrack from other movies. Tarantino stole soundtrack music from films of the 1960s and 70s.
Killing off Dax was pretty bad too
and than you get 15 ezri episodes in a row just so they can try to establish her. I hate that so much.
and honestly, i didnt like ezri at all. just finished my 6th or 7th run of ds9 few days ago, every time i like ezri less and less. The actress is cool and all in interviews, but badly written in series.
@@pavlenikic9712 Nicole was fine...just not as Dax. they should just made a new character for her
Hot Take: They should have killed off Dax earlier.
But hey, I'm a Doctor Who fan. You give me a character whose species main trait is being able to regenerate into a new body, I want to see it happen.
I liked Ezri Dax. It was Terry Farrell who decided to leave the show so they had to change the character. It was good that Ezri was nothing like Jadzia.
I liked quite a few of the Enterprise episodes. Almost everything except for the Infamous last episode
I loved the series. The only thing I didn't like was the whole Xindi conflict. I know that since TOS and TNG exist, they make it out just fine anyways. Plus, it took away from what the series was all about: humanity's first years of exploration and discovering Klingons, Romulans, etc. That had so much potential.
Les Monves basically told to crash-land the series.
Yeah it was finding its footing by the end only real thing I would change is the decom scenes and have some of the early episodes have some permanent consequences ie Trip getting pregnant.
I loved Enterprise
enterprise is still the one I usually binge watch-put of all of the others it was the best at recapturing the feeling of exploration originally intended by TOS. If CBS hadn't screwed it up by trying an early attempt at CBS all access via UPN the show would've had a much more significant following than it had. I didn't even see an episode of it till the final season or so when it finally went on regular network. The show was doomed from the beginning just because of that. Now Discovery and Picard are different animals, they're doomed not just because of that but also due to shitty writing and their desire to use foul language beyond things like Data saying "oh.....shit" or Spock saying "I think if I were human I'd say to hell with you" when they were called back to be decommissioned in the Undiscovered Country.
"Of course none deliberately sets out to assassinate a character or kill your childhood"
Dr Who: *sweats profusely*
*modern Disney/media industry*
I wonder if Chris Chibnall and JJ Abrans will ever return to the mirror universe....
Thank you!
Mistake 1: Jar Jar. Mistake 2: Kurtzman.
You know Star Trek is in sad condition when we actually yearn for Berman and Brega.
@@pwnmeisterage I'd rather have Coto, but sure, even B&B would be better. (Just don't leave Berman alone with any of the actresses.)
You forgot the worst decision: ending Enterprise too early!
ToS Enterprise, yes. Prequel, no.
@David Reads bit late after I already did watch it. Try going back in time and warning me. The Enterprise prequel was entertaining enough, but should not have been put in the Star Trek universe. The fact they did so meant they were depending on the reputation and it was never going to work perfectly.
Agree!!
They frequently confused Vulcans with Romulans
I really don't get all the hate toward Enterprise.
Enterprise was good it was just getting its legs and they cancelled it. Most the shows took a few seasons to really get good
Exactly, like TNG it sucked during it's first two seasons. It was getting much better in season 3 and 4 was just rushed as they find out they were cancelled.
The first 2 seasons of almost all star trek apart from the original series were spotty at best. I thought into the darkness was way better than the 2009 star trek movie.
terrible trek. wooden captain.
It was never good and they dragged it along to qualify for syndication. Horrific final episode
Enterprise was getting better, too. Brent Spiner. Humanoid Klingons. Mirror Universe fun. And, the S5 plans: Shran added to the main cast, Elizabeth surviving, Romulans being obnoxious, and the Federation really starting to come together.
They really need to hire Ron Moore back. He gave some great advice about Voyager, Enterprise, and future Trek shows in general back around 2000. You can still find it archived somewhere, although I think the original website that did the interview isn't in great shape. If they had listened to Moore, Voyager would have been much more successful and Enterprise probably wouldn't have been canceled. And his advice still applies to Trek today. Moore said this about Enterprise in 2000 and look at how well it applies to Discovery:
"The STAR TREK past, it's challenging; it sounds like it's fun on one level, and I thought that was an interesting way to go for a long time. But it has a lot of pitfalls to it. You have a very complex future mapped out. If you are going to go into STAR TREK's past, say, pre-Kirk, you better have an iron-clad commitment to maintaining the continuity that's been established, or I think you are just going to lose everybody. Because if you go back before Kirk, and you start screwing around, and you just don't care what NEXT GEN or DS9 or VOYAGER established, or the movies, or even the original series, you just try to make it up as you go along, I think you just lost everyone. The whole franchise will just collapse, because it will have no validity whatsoever. If you are going to go there, you really better be prepared to truly put on the STAR TREK mantle and be the keeper of the flame."
As much as I too want Ron Moore back, I don't think he's interested (though he put out some interesting ideas in the DS9 documentary). Robert Hewitt Wolfe would be great to have back and he's said on Twitter he'd be up for it. Just keep Brannon Braga as far away as possible.
The way i see Neelix i always thought he's funny he makes me laugh, i never see him annoying but caring and loving and smart he also respectful, loyal and sincere. He's always there for his crew, solving problems, investigation, and comfort and he never gives up. And believe it or not Neelix is the main reason i finally smiled and laughed for the very first time when i was 4 years old before Voyager show came i was never a happy child i never smiled or laugh i was always quiet and grumpy even my family did everything they can to make me smile. Then one day i saw my brother watching Voyager and somehow i saw the scene when Neelix was all talking and mimicking about the crew it was on episode The Clouds when saw him first time and listened to his funny voice all of a sudden i slowly began to smile and giggle for the very first time and since then i continue watching Voyager everyday when it came on tv and started laughing so hard on Neelix funny scenes. My family were extremely shocked and surprised that i finally smiled. Thanks to the wonderful loving Talaxian hero Neelix he is a miracle. Neelix has been my most favorite Star Trek character ever since i never ever get tired of watching him. But i did became sad and i did cry so hard and sobbing when he left Voyager and my mother had to comfort me for hours. Somehow i still don't have the heart to watch Episode Homestead because it hurts me seeing him leave.... So i stick with the others continue enjoying him. I love Neelix so much he has a very strong pure heart and thats what i love about him. If i were in Voyager i would definitely want to marry him!!💘💘💘
Making the final episode of Enterprise not only just a holodeck episode of TNG and fundamentally changing the Pegasus episode at the same time.
It didn't change the Pegasus episode at all. Through that whole episode Riker wrestled with whether or not to tell Picard and stuff happens off screen all the time, some times it's referenced sometimes not but, making it a TNG holodeck program was total bullshit I agree, but it didn't a thing about the TNG episode they shoehorned it into.
Did *anyone* really *not* know that Enterprise was a Trek series?
We all knew it was a Trek series. That was never in doubt. But it was the first to not have "Star Trek" in the title, and that annoyed more than a few people. It was one of those inexplicably stupid decisions by Rick Fuck-This-Shit Berman, along with keeping that annoying theme song.
Anyone who watched it did, for sure. But I suspect the idea of putting Star Trek back in the name before it was to call in more casual folks who had seen it was on but not really paid attention to it, despite maybe having a passing interest in Star Trek. Try and play off the name recognition to draw in folks who hadn't bothered to give it a watch yet. Didn't work, but I can see the intent.
@@maisiesummers42 I rather liked the theme song as well as the opening montage with early Astronauts as well as Bell X-1 pilot Chuck Yeager
@@Uturuncu That's right. At the time, they noticed that the average age of the Star Trek viewer was getting older and older and they wanted to draw younger audiences to the show.
This video is super stupid.
"Walking hormone Tom Paris"
Oh shit, I'm dead. That's too accurate.
after he met b'lanna it was harry who was a raging teenager around seven.
@@aaronrichards2842 Yeah it annoyed the F out of me. Everyone calling Neelix a pedo with his real love for Kes. But 7 of 9 who mentally at times was extremely childlike. Harry chasing her like a dog. Why doesn't anyone call him out for that?
Bashear was even worse.
@@bshays21 Yeah, that insinuation about Neelix was dumb. She is obviously a mature, highly intelligent young woman, despite (arbitrarily) being only two years old.
Riker was the worst. There were even times his Captain (or his own underlings) had to remind him to focus on task instead of on some nearby woman. The writers and music and audience were always on Riker's side, but objectively he usually behaved like a horny, moody, petulant juvenile.
Tpol and Seven of mine are the best things to happen to star trek since replicators. " .. I'll be in the holodeck.."
Well thought out points and respect them of course but don’t agree with point 1; I’m not exactly a die hard life long fan but I grew up on mid-late Voyager and Enterprise, then retrospectively fell in love with the rest. I think if you’re invested in a certain history and chronology, you don’t really want to see everything rewritten. The biggest crime for me was making into darkness at all, should have been something all new instead of messing with something so loved. Agree with Discovery having messed with things needlessly as well; it’s a big universe with so many stories, why try and tie things together only to mess with the continuity... I think a lot of these criticisms could also be levelled at Star Wars as well, whether it’s Lucas needing to write in characters like Chewbacca having met Yoda in Ep3 or C3PO having already lived with the Lars family (Ep2) only to be bought back in Ep4, and then the JJ changing the laws of Star Wars metaphysics in the new trilogy. Fans of these things do get invested; it’s not cheap thrills horror series, it’s not Fast and Furious, it’s something else where fans grow up in these other worlds... my tuppence
I would personally replace #1 with their reluctance to continue the Prime Universe. Nemesis, released in 2002, was the furthest we'd see for 7 years until Spock recounts his story in the 2009 film, and we don't see it again for 11 more years in Picard. I understand part of that was that the Abrams movies BECAME Star Trek as far as Paramount was concerned so they wouldn't want any Prime Trek to muddy the waters and consume more casual viewers but damn, given all we'd seen of the Prime Universe up to the point and then throw the destruction of a major power like Romulus wiped from existence seems like incredibly fertile ground for long-form storytelling. Given the fact that the events also played a major role in the first Abrams Trek film, I could see it enticing viewers from the Abrams films.
Interestingly, Lower Decks seems to be working to fill the gap between the end of the Dominion War and the destruction of Romulus. Yes, it is a comedy but even comedies can have great stories to tell and I've been very intrigued by the one being told by Lower Decks.
Can't wait until we finally get Season Three! 😅☺️😁
“Spock RETCONS his story”?
Uh, no! Even in the 09 movie, it’s explained that Spock created an alternative timeline, he didn’t retcon anything, and while yes, the Prime Universe at the end of the 24th Century and beginning of the 25th sounds interesting, but we already have Star Trek Online telling that story.
Granted, STO may be Beta Canon, it’s still something to consider.
Abrahms movies were just sci-fi movies, with the words Star Trek in the titles
Seeing that poster of Grace Lee Whitney as Yeoman Janice Rand was a treat! Thanks, friend!
The insistence on making prequels to the original series annoyed me. Sure, seeing the formation of the Federation might have been cool if done well... but it wasn't.
A series with Sulu as captain of the Excelsior would have surely been far better.
there was a sulu series but it was cancelled by cbs
You can tell that, that was the plan, to show the "growing pains" of the Federations beginning. But with the cancellation, they "Game of Thrones'd" it. The final season could have been so much better, especially if they had gotten away from so much "time travel" arcs and got serious.
I believe that much of the reason STE died was being victim of a bad time slot. Looking at the shows slotted around it, I seriously doubt many of those viewers stuck around for Star Trek.
Imagine the novel "Excelsior: Forged in Fire" as a TV miniseries. That ties up many loose threads and fills in gaps between TOS, ST6, TNG, and DS9, without ever breaking what was established canon at the time of its writing. That's what prequels should do. None of the onscreen prequels have ever managed that, so Abrams' solution of a new timeline was good. I wish Discovery had indeed been in the Kelvin TL, especially now that no more films are currently forthcoming. Its dark tone and extreme violence fit much better there than in the Prime TL, I think.
Have to disagree - the Kelvin timeline was pointless, as were all the Abrams movies. Prime universe has plenty of nooks and crannies to tell stories in, and there's no reason you have to pretend history stopped with Nemesis. And movies just aren't Star Trek's home. Inevitably, feature film Trek will revolve around grand set-pieces and big budgets (neither of which it does all that well), and will take years between installments. Put the show back on TV where it belongs.
One thing that DS9 proved was that it wasn't the size of the playground, it's what you do when you're in it. DS9 did have alpha quadrant, but most of its storytelling revolved around its own neighborhood. Even during the Dominion War, we're mostly with the same characters in the same locations.
There's plenty of room in the Prime universe to tell stories. The real problem with Enterprise was that Berman and Braga were burnt out. Bring in new people to run things, and you can revitalize the franchise without killing off the old continuity.
Berman and Braga are humans just as you and me and if you need money youre willing to do what it takes when the franchise goes into a new direction (same for patrick steward who willingly slaughtered his own character which made him famous and opend the door for other big AAA blockbusters just to get some extra $ sad old greedy marionette). As for the continiuation AFTER Nemesis there is actualy a storyline going on its called "Star Trek: Destiny " (Yes, its offical Star trek matrial but only in bookform) which even goes deeper about the faith of the borg (not to mentioned many other species like Q and so many more other i cant even count which writters of the new shows would have had so much more material to continue on but simply not allowed because order from above and LICENCE ISSUES). All in all a sad conclusion which were once great shows (more or less) into this dark mess we have nowdays
@@Mastercluster I disagree that he slaughtered his own character, it brought out emotion that was only touched on in the series and a little in the movies and alot of people loved, though yes the Picard series as a whole isnt brilliant. You can't call Destiny "official" though, most of the 750 books are, the voyager Homecoming books were "official" also, but as much as I enjoyed them I think it was a bad direction to go and they contradict destiny. I doubt licencing is an issue either, novels are a very cheap way to go, Netflix buy rights to books constantly and never use them, CBS just wanted something new, as did Patrick Stewart, he didn't want the same old character, he wanted something different the same as the Logan movie in the XMen franchise, I doubt I'd want to play the same tired character again after 4 decades. Its CBS who changed it up so hed take it.
I could have forgive the time line has it built up to story line where it became time had been meddled with and they needed to restore the original. I got the desire to just do some fun movies with the known tropes, unbound by the lore, but had it ret-conned it's self it would have been fine - Afterall the brain dead who enjoyed would not have cared, and the final movie could have had a lot of fun - Could have begun in the 24th century showing how things played out in the Kelvin timeline, and that things played out very badly - And finding a way to ungo Nero's meddling with Kirks life was the key to fixing everything?
Dude, there is a thing with Star Trek rights.... voyager was the last that had full rights, everything else that has the Star Trek name on it, by contract, has to be modify at least a 25% to be aired, thats why there are so many differences with new trek, and way it was stuck in prequels
Honestly idk why Enterprise was so unpopular... I actually love the series and I thought it was authentic and true to the original star trek message while still having it's own charm.
Can someone please explain why they didn't like Enterprise?
About the "4 years gap between new trek movies" : I don't think the reason for the fail of this series of films is a question of yeargap. I think everybody slowly awakened from the JJAbrams spell which makes you think he can make good movies just because he makes rollercosters pumping you with adrenaline. 1 year is enough to formulate this thought.
If Into Darkness had been good, that 4 year gap wouldn't have made much of a difference. But it was chock full of stuff that you realized was stupid even before you walked out of the theater. (Like the opening that had the Enterprise hiding from primitive natives...AT THE BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN.) JJ Abrams and his collaborators seemingly always went for the cool-seeming image (Enterprise flying out of the water!) at the expense of making sense (why wouldn't the SPACEship hide from the natives by STAYING IN SPACE?)
Beyond was a fun science fiction action movie that didn't weigh itself down with idiotic moments like that (or Spock's KHAAAAN, or the idea that you'd want a dude whose education was 300 years out of date to design hyper-advanced gear, or the model of the super-secret warship sitting on the desk of the guy who was conspiring to have it built...I could go on but I've gone on enough as it is). But I think it was handicapped by the poor quality of its predecessor.
Captain Lorca should have been the source of conflict in the second season.
He the warrior who needed in a time of war, but now is having to deal with peace .
And he clashing with the Federation rules in that time of peace.
That would be a far better series then what we got.
Ronald D. Moore was so pissed off that he literally made his own Voyager with Blackjack and hookers.
DS9 was before voyager! Unless your talking about battlestar Galactica. Don’t mess with BSG reboot! It’s awesome!
Yeah BSG was awesome, they should let Ron help out but with Voyager. I was really into it
Battlestar James Edward Olmos is legendary. It's also free till the end of July on the NBC website.
Yes, but he also proved that TV was hard, starting with that godawful BSG boxing episode, and finishing with that godawful Starbuck nonsense through to the end.
@@ian9outof10 I don't think the boxing episode is awful but yeah, the finale and the whole "Starbuck is an angel now" is beyond terrible.
Cheering for J. J. Craps "Kelvin Timeline" killed my good mood .....
I know. I aggrieved with most it until the Kelvin timeline. That doesn't seem like Star trek at all. It's too much a of a super military Starfleet.
I’m not sure if the writer of this thing has actually seen these series.
Why?
@@bobb4you Because the new shows are aweful. The writers have no understanding for the universe and seem to be more interested in pushing political agendas instead of telling intriguing stories. And of course: crying, so much crying.
*awful*
…and you’re right, they were.
@@Nodux359 only people who say stupid shit like this are insurrectionist who are upset that Star Trek isn’t a right wing shit show.
@@Nodux359 Star Trek is ALWAYS in tune with the time in which a show or movie is made. What you actually dislike is how the world has changed. There are a lot of people stuck in the past and longing for some rose-tinted golden age of everything. Time marches on: adapt or go watch reruns.
I personally feel that every incarnation of "Star Trek" has both stellar and cringe elements. I'm old but I refuse to be one of those "X was better in my day" curmudgeons who only play old music and hate seeing women or people of color or crying or LGBTQ+ people or whatever in their fandom.
Shaking your fist at change just makes you look silly.
Star Trek VI's last line was probably one of the most well written end lines in cinema history when it comes to passing the torch and ending the last chapter in a proud legacy.
Kirk: Second star to the right... and straight on till morning.
The problem with the alternate universe is that it rewrites trek history. And loses alot of things that it shouldnt. For me, losing the idea of a hope filled future depressed me. I look around today and see that hope is less and less presented in media, therefore less available to individuals who need something to believe in. If all one sees is the bad, they will stop seeing the good.
!!!!!
I understand this point, and can see its validity. However with ST, STTNG, Voyager and then the move to less idealistic series like DS9 and Enterprise you can see that it's following the public's desire for more gritty stories.
Picard and Discovery all take a more series arc-based, darker tone. That's just how the TV inudstry is now, people (or at least the studios think) that people want distopia, not utopia. I can see both sides, but the market for a "monster of the week" type show is probably the smallest it has ever been. I really miss the way those show helped you fall in love with characters though. It's that slower pace that really makes people feel like they're on a voyage with the crew.
I'd say that Roddenberry's original vision of a perfect humanity was pretty boring for the purpose of telling stories. Narrative drama comes from conflict, flawed characters and overcoming adversity and that's why trek shows have progressively moved away from a holier-than-thou Starfleet. Honestly, I can't stand TOS because of how patronising and condescending the human characters tend to be! And it's not really that I want dystopia; it's that I can't relate to an unrealistic portrayal of a flawless utopia. I'd rather see flawed characters trying, against the odds, to do the right thing. Isn't that more inspiring?
@@travellinghat They do it because writing "gritty dark" stories is cheap and easy, and ultimately it's still just "good guys v bad guys" holier-than-thou. There aren't any "flawed characters" in Discovery just really bad (in some cases disgraceful - Tilly?) character writing...
The trouble is that I quickly get to the point of "who would actually give this person a senior position"? Can you really relate to characters when you suspect that they wouldn't even get past the job interview at your workplace?
@@travellinghat It was so boring they made five television series, several movies, countless books, comics, and video games about it. Talk about a snore fest amirite? /s
Just a more specific problem with what they did with Discovery's continuity issues. Making Section 31 mainstream, in DS9 they were basically unknown to everyone other than a few select people in the quadrant. but in Discovery soon as anyone sees the black badge they knew exactly what it was.
To be fair, you could probably pick the entire top 10 list of problems from just one episode of Discovery...
This. I can't stand the way the new series are using Section 31, for exactly the reasons you've described.
@@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan People would still know OAS or SS by name alone. im sorry what point were trying to make again?
@@frosty848 In DS9 Bashir & Sisko had never heard of 31, were repulsed by the very idea of it. In Disco, not only do the crew recognise Tyler's black badge as relating to 31, but they also sort of shrug their shoulders in acceptance, as though they've seen it before.
@@zingzangspillip1 because in DS9 they needed to explain it to the audience. That is it.
I didn't mind Voyager encountering Alpha Quadrant species: that they would do so was typically compatible with the premise (the Caretaker pulling ships to him from all over the galaxy). I loved Voyager, definitely up there with the best of Trek, but I agree it was often fighting with it's own premise. Voyager at it's very best was in the Year of Hell, when Voyager was being absolutely hammered and things were desperate - the show needed more of that feeling, to explore more the emotional and psychological cost of being so far from home, the crew not knowing if they'll ever see home again, and realising that their families probably think they're dead... not every episode feeling like they just shipped out from DS9 two weeks ago.
The unforgivable sin of Year of Hell is that it turned out to be yet another reset button episode.
The best Trek latest installment is without a doubt the Orville.
Can't wait for October!
Loved the show the Oraville but I thought it was canceled
Just delayed
It's cancelled 😭
@@monicaolsson7608 - no, it's not, read some more about it, it's more complicated than that.
People were already saying it for season 3 and it happened.
Nothing is certain regarding season 4.
Neelix and tuvok could've been quark and odo with good writing, but we all know the good stories and writers were used on ds9.
Too true 😐👌
@not hen hahaha true and sooo bullshit, and what about wollowits's wife (i dont know the names, never really watched it). But dang, two 10'ns dating a two 3'seses. Would have been okay if they got normal wifes instead of models, but thats tv💁🏿♂️🤷🏿♂️
Neelix was just a poorly written character. He didn't really offer anything and came across way too needy. And he was dating a 1 year old.
Remember, these writers didn't even know that an ensign is supposed to make lieutenant after a few years. I guess in light of that, we couldn't really expect competent work from them.
Deus Ex Deflector Dish.
It felt like in every episode of Voyager they solved an obstacle they ran into by reconfiguring the deflector dish to send out a pulse or a beam of some type of energy.
Just lazy writing IMHO.
So much this. Many of Voyager's greatest faults stemmed from the writers being forced to write the series in stand alone episodes, when they wanted the flexibility to tell longer reaching stories like the Year of Hell. After watching Year of Hell, I was completely pissed off that didn't become an entire season as it was easily the most interesting thing to happen in that series. Finding out it was SUPPOSED to be an entire season story didn't surprise me in the least.
We will reconfigure the dish to create an interferometric pulse.
What does that do?
It interferes with things.
Reverse the polarity!!!
There was always an element of technobabble in Star Trek scripts - it wasn't uncommon for the writer to add a notation of "TECH" to the script, and let the production staff insert some appropriate pseudoscience. But in Voyager, it tended to feel like they just used it as a crutch.
"Oh no, we're about to be blown to pieces by an alien armada, how can we possibly escape?"
"I know the perfect solution - we can just [TECH]!"
@@patrickkenyon2326 This isn't only true in Voyager, that kind of technobabble, as they called it, was invented for the Next Generation. It isn't only the Voyager that used the deflector dish for such things.
I do love Emperor Georgiou and the chemistry she has with Michael, but I do wish they hadn't done the prime universe version in so quickly.
While I agree that Lorca was a missed opportunity, I think Georgiou's death was a necessary plot point for the development of not only Burnham, but Saru as well. If Georgiou hadn't been killed as a result of Burnham's actions, then Saru wouldn't have been nearly as justified in his mistrust towards her. Also, without the death of Georgiou, we wouldn't have had Burnham and Saru under Lorca - you can't demote Georgiou, you can't have Lorca as a dictator if he's not captain, and you can't have two diametrically opposed captains on the same ship. So you either have a much more peaceful Discovery under Georgiou and no Lorca, or you have to find some way to fridge her in order to have Lorca be the captain, which just ends up with the same situation as we got. The only difference is that we would have Prime Georgiou returning instead of Emperor Georgiou, and tbh Prime Georgiou is a far less interesting character.
I do think I would have preferred it if Lorca was merely an amoral Prime Universe bastard who seamlessly stepped into the role of his equally amoral Mirror Universe counterpart and simply took his chance at a power grab for shits and giggles. Maybe he could have met his Mirror Universe counterpart on the Buran and started planning a trip then, or maybe he just was amazed by the parallel universe possibilities he discussed with Stamets, and just HAD to test them before Stamets retired, and placed them in the flight plan on a purely spur of the moment decision. Either way, Prime Lorca being evil is more interesting to me than Lorca being from the Mirror Universe.
As for Emperor Georgiou becoming a snippy antihero mother figure to Burnham, it makes sense. Georgiou is not stupid. She know that there is no way for her to be Emperor in the Prime Universe, and to just have her constantly creating plots to take over the Federation would become cartoonish after a while. Terrans are not just evil for the sake of evil. They are space Nazis in the same way that real Nazis are; they are ordinary humans who have developed a different cultural and moral framework to the rest of us, whether through conditioning or rationalisation. De-radicalising Georgiou was a logical step to make.
She grew up in a society where everyone fights for everything, and empathy and selflessness are basically unheard of - but that is not to say that they don't exist. She is capable of empathy but has rarely had reason to use it before, and yet her life was saved by someone who had no reason to spare her. She was given a place in a Federation that was willing to let her use her skills and knowledge for the greater good of all. She experiences firsthand a society that prized values she had always been taught were weak, and saw that society thriving and prevailing over enemies who were far more similar in behaviour to Terrans than humans, such as the Klingons. That's gonna cause a big shift in her worldview, along with the fact that she was saved by the doppelgänger of the very adopted daughter who betrayed her - Prime Burnham is a link to her past, but also a perfect example of how this universe is different to her own. That's going to change the way she acts, and also colours a lot of her behaviour towards Prime Burnham, who is obviously a better person than Mirror Burnham, but that doesn't mean that Georgiou doesn't still miss HER Burnham.
Also, Emperor Georgiou is able to explore a lot more of herself than she was free to in the Mirror Universe. In the Mirror Universe she was heavily bound by the expectations of her role, as well as the knowledge that ANY slip up could mean her death and the death of anyone she might care for. In the Prime Universe she is able to lower her guard, and she is likely enjoying that newfound emotional freedom, while also still remaining partially on guard out of habit. Michelle Yeoh plays her perfectly, and I think that Emperor Georgiou is an excellent way to explore a different perspective on the Federation and humanity in general.
I think the issue is a shift in how Discovery and Picard treat character in comparison to previous Trek shows. In previous Trek shows, most characters remain more or less the same throughout - they learn things and they grow, but you can look at Riker in season 7 and Riker in season 1, and besides the beard, season 7 Riker is the same man, but just with more knowledge. Alien races in classic Trek also tended to be much more archetypal - all Klingons are violent, all Romulans are shifty, etc. Meanwhile, Discovery and Picard treat both their characters and their alien races as much more fluid and much more individual. I think it is a case of switching from a style focused on reframing current society through the lens of a different alien race each week, to a more narrative-focused style aiming to tell a cohesive story around characters that act as real people might. In the original shows, you never want to throw away cool concepts and characters that you might want to use later, but in Discovery and Picard, you often have to sacrifice certain characters and ideas that you could easily explore deeper in order to tell a cohesive story. It's different, but it's not necessarily inherently better or worse
@TrekCulture
Apparently you haven't seen the episode "TUVIX" where Nelix Gets a better understanding of Vulcan.
Basically everything came up to a head there... but it also gave Tuvock a understanding of Nelix
Would've been great except they went for the ol' Voyager reset button trope.
“Star Trek Into Darkness has its flaws.” Indeed.
It's easily one of the worst ST films ever. Worse than The Motion Picture. "Final Frontier" is close, but I would still say Into Darkness was worse.
I think that Abrams' films were merely action adventure movies, with the ST tag affixed to them. I can appreciate the desire for Trek, after 4 years absence, but the depiction of the contemporary Spock was ridiculous, as was Kirk's ascendancy to captain, with the insistence on going back to the Khan well, once more, was a convoluted hot mess.
I have no regret about the scuttling of the fourth movie, particularly, when Axanar was superior to all of the Kelvinverse renditions (putting aside Peter's financial doings), IMO, and would have made a fine theatrical release. This was the real reason, I believe, that CBS decided to bring the hammer down, which stopped everyone else in their tracks, unfortunately.
Into Darkness was one of the best Star Trek Movies. I would say number one.
@@johnnyfacchin6469 I've watched ST:09 a few times, "Beyond" a couple. Have not seen "Into Darkness" a second time and have no plans to.
@@johnnyfacchin6469 You are in the minority then. JJ Trek is a travesty. If they really wanted to spin it differently they should have put it in the mirror universe and not just copy and pasted all the names onto people and ships that looked and acted nothing like the source they were copied from. Hell, Galaxy Quest was a better 'Trek' movie than any of the Abrams bullshit.
Re: _Picard._ You and I must have watched a different series. I thought the Artifact was essential.
If the corporate "Master minds" really wanted to do something awesome they could just do a new season of DS9. Not a reboot or re-imagination, but a real continuation of it. Even with a time jump for obvious reasons, DS9 season 8 would be a must see show.
I really feel like a lot of this was written by someone without a good understanding of how the shows works. Like yeah Kes is 2 but her species lives to about 7. They age/mature 10x faster than we do. It's like they were doing something else while watching the show.
9 to 10, actually. There's an "alternate reality" episode where she marries Tom, her daughter marries Harry, and the Doctor has hair and calls himself Van Gogh. So we can't just fault Neelix for dating single digit age women.
True, in actuality Kes is in her 20s, but even then clearly much younger than Neelix. Especially experience wise.
@@oddish4352 what's the episode called?
@@sirenia1241 Before and After, I think. It's pretty trippy.
I think I watch these to frustrate myself because life doesn't do that enough
The Kelvin timeline exists because people inevitably die... It was insurance for Star Trek and I honestly respect the effort.
all this content to consume. 100 years of comics. half a century of star trek. another half century of video games. several centuries of books. just wish i could focus and get interested in stuff. there is easily enough media content out their to keep me entertained for the rest of my life
edit: not to mention all the tabletop stuff. especially the roleplaying games. can never really run out of content with those
I loved Enterprise. Was so sad when that got canned. They really blew it by cancelling that one.
Agreed
Enterprise was getting good as it went on but the guy in charge didn’t like Star Trek and had it cancelled
The ratings were in the pan and they wanted to pivot to more cheaper, teen oriented shows. They were at the time starting to compete with the WB.
IMO, Enterprise was never 'getting good'. The only show that can start the series off with "Time Travel" as the plot hook should have been Doctor Who!
They had all the possible story potential of a pre-Federation galaxy and they couldn't get away from the idea that it must be a time travel plot from the future to change how the Federation turns out.
Did no one at UPN even watch Babylon 5? Look at their story....
Earth has expanded outside of our solar system...
There have been 2 major conflicts with established species - the Dilgar, which they won and the Mimbari (jury is still out on that one)
The parade of scandals...
Money is still a thing....
The poor still exist....
All of it was gritty, realistic and believable and the only example of time travel comes in 'Babylon Squared' which left more unanswered questions than answered ones until season 3. BTW, there were consequences to entering an 'out of phase' time field without protection!
Hey UPN - This is what real creativity looks like!
I’m fine with the Kelvin timeline and the Prime timeline, mirror universes, just about anything. But I HATE how the Borg were watered down! The Borg were soooo scary! And now they’re no more of a threat than any other hostile race. Takes all the fun out of it.
Considering the quality of the writers.... they didn't have much choice. They had written themselves into a corner and either weren't capable or weren't willing to explore the possibilities of "How do you defeat an opponent who can adapt to whatever you do after the 1st use, species wide"
Agreed, would be nice to see the Borg come back with a vengeance, somehow...As a matter of fact, it might be better to see the BORG destroy Romulus, or Vulcan, than some other Mary-Sue adversary...just a thought...
I've said the same thing. The Borg got punked. Basically, they just became another bully with an Achilles heel. As a sci-fi fan, I accept various scenarios as the writer has the right to create what they deem best for the story. Not all of them work, but at least they tried. I do think overall, Star Trek over used the Mirror Universe (I'm looking at you DS9). They also underused the Romulans and the Ferengi turned out to be clowns. Many Quark/Ferengi based episodes were fantastic, but over all, they were side bars.
What ever happened to the Borg Cubes' ability to self heal? Or their total disregard the codes of ethics? (an alignment?)
@@daydreamer226 There is still the possibility of the Kelvin timeline encountering the Borg. They could do it right that time. (fingers crossed)
Issue with the Borg is that they are too powerful and their goals are too final. So they have to be watered down in the show, same with Tyranids in 40k.
Both stand as a lesson that making your big baddies so powerful and so alien makes for bad story telling.
You forget that with Voyager they *did* try and make their own delta quadrant aliens, who ended up just being stand-ins for the ones we already knew. Kazon were Klingons, Talaxians were Ferengi, etc. There are exceptions, of course, notably the Vidiians.
The Hirogen were a good concept, until Janeway turned them into holodeck addicts. 😅
I disliked how they over did the Borg and Barbie Borg
I disagree with #1 if they had used the kelvin timeline we wouldn't have got Anson Mount.
They wouldn't have gotten me as a viewer, either.
@@koreygeren2677 And they did with the rubbish they went with?
Anson Mount is so far the best thing about Discovery. And Episode 1 and 2 Georgio. I agree with this list that killing her was a bad idea.
Chris Jones so do I
@@mattevans4377 somewhat, a lot more otherwise
Okay, that last one shows you're out of your mind.
Agreed 100%. I almost spit water all over my computer screen when I saw it.
not 4 years... it was the complete drop from "hope for the future" to "dirty, dark, shit" that meant many people not interested.
“Neelix’s relationship with Tuvok was especially egrearious [s]”.
I think you meant egregious.
archaic: remarkably good - It was similar to Spock's and Dr. McCoy's "frenemies".
I was thinking the same
Maybe he meant agrarian - as a vegetarian, Spock loved those veggies and Neelix always cooked layolila-root
@@daydreamer226 lol how did spock get into this…
@@dragoonempire oops, me thinks me meants to say Tuvok
/oh the shame
Yeah the Borg Cube story in Picard was a wasted story element that felt tacked on to the main story.
Still can'T get over the fact a Borgcube got taken out by one Flower.
@@MrManultra I'm not surprised. It was probably the first time the Borg were hit by that particular type of weapon. Since they hadn't encountered it before they hadn't adapted a defense against it. Same way the Enterprise-D's phasers were effective the first time they were used against the Borg.
@@MrManultra At the very least it should have been something along the lines of the planet killer from the original series. You'd think a planet of synths would be defended by something equally synthetic.
I was hoping it would lead to a twist that Seven of Nine, with all the fleets of the Romulans, Borg cubes that show up, Federation and the AI at the edge of the Galaxy poised to destroy each other, would send the Cube into the past, but unable to control how far she sends them, finds herself 5000 years in the past, where no Borg currently exists.
The twist being that Seven is and always was the Borg queen, in a paradox. Her actions to save the drones lead to the creation of the Borg.
The whole Picard was a wasted story
the worst decision ever made in star trek history was hiring jj abdrams to do the movies and allowing kurtzman ANYWHERE near star trek
so many ways & stories we can go but no let's completly screw up the time line
@@GTFORDMAN What else would you expect from old Jar Jar?
totally agree Alex Kurtzman hasnt a fkn clue what Star Trek is about
get ready for more GASH with below decks or whatever they are calling it
its a fkn Crime
@@bumfie woo hoo...CAN 'T wait
One of my favorite Voyager episodes is actually a Neelix-centric one in "Fair Trade" where the ship is at a Space Station at the edge of the Nekrit expanse.
It was fairly good except for how harshly Janeway chastises him for his actions.
I wouldn't mind an anthology/spinoff show. Yu could set it in different periods in Star Trek history. Tell stories unrelated to the main Enterprise crews. Like maybe a two or three part story about ship "X" during one of the Dominion battles. Or show the crew of ship "Z" encountering a new alien species. Things like that would allow the "world" to expand and visit new characters/situations, while revisiting some nostalgic events in Star Trek history. ENDLESS possibilities! Maybe even show some more of the events on Earth which helped shape the Federation, like in First Contact and the Past Tense episodes.
"omg kes was only two years old!" and also more than 20% of her expected lifespan. How horrifying.
She was not human. She was a, young, adult by the time rat boy starts humping her. Different species, different moves.
They love bringing that up in every list that features her. If a 12 year-old actress had played Kes, I'd get it, but she was never meant to be thought of as underage in the context of her species
Deciding to redesign the Klingons for Star Trek Discovery was a very bad decision.
They could have had any aliens ,they did not have to mass with the Klingons
The Klingons were horrible and we were made to read way too many subtitles, which I find very distracting. This nearly put me off the whole show, but I slogged through, hoping for better as time went on.
those arent klingons
Pluth... uou 'an' uweall' unnathann 'ouwa' thay're thay'inh wi' all th' p'wothe'icx 'n thay're mowthths, e'thr.
Translated: Plus, you can't really understand what they're saying with all the prosthetics i their mouths, either.
It's a great decision they poked fun at themselves the second season though, in my opinion. I got a good chuckle out of the fourth wall breaking jokes about the hair and language.
One thing that really fascinated me about the Enterprise, as my Dad told me when I was really young, "the Enterprise is so big they had to build it in space".
That sparked my imagination and got me hooked on science, math, engineering, space.
But Jarr Jarr Abrams movies took ALL that away by making it into a big construction project.
When you see the inside of it, it looks like an oil refinery or some kind of 20th century processing plant.
Third thing, I waited for a year to see that movie. I was hoping they would show its maiden liftoff!
No, it's already in space when they first show it.
Jarr Jarr Abrams is NOT a Star Trek fan!
The internal shots of the JJprize were filmed in a Brewery.
Enterprise has now become my fave series and killing off Trip like that was just stupid and I hated it.
Why are there so many "old Star Trek is something to shame for" episodes here?
Because the writer of this video is a fool.
Virtue signalling earns pity points from idiots.
Erm... how is any entry in this video shaming old Trek? The closest thing is perhaps Voyager using recognised enemies like Klingons, Romulans etc, but that's not shaming old Trek, it's shaming Voyager for wasting it's opportunity many times to tell stories about new races, new ideas, the entire premise of the series being set in the Delta Quadrant.
Because there is like 40 episodes of New Star Trek and 700 odd episodes of Old Star Trek?
i fully disagree with #1 they should keep things in the prime time line, if they want to expand into new ideas instead of alternate universes why not go for extra-Galatic travel you know.... go where no man has gone before..
*one
@@xx-nb6gr Touche
@@morrbydick5957 easy misunderstanding
Yes! And there's also plenty of unexplored space in the Star Trek galaxy.
@@bazzokzwattom2655 Like the andorians.
I happened to love the Lorca twist as well as Terran Georgiou.
I really liked the Lorca is Terran twist in terms of a twist I didn't see coming that nevertheless was supported through everything that came before, but they then made him a gratuitously evil Terran with no moral ambiguity, when he could have continued to be a complex and rounded (and sure, maybe kind of evil) character.
TrekCulture: ...and it has always managed to bounce back.
CBS: Hold my Romulan ale.
One of the things that should've been on this list was Khan being familiar with Chekhov in Star Trek II:The Wrath Of Khan
Chekov never even appeared in TOS episode from which Star Trek II was based on
Its prequel.
The powers that be explained it this way:
Chekhov was on the ship working different shifts so we never see him on screen with Khan
Good try, but the whole thing means nothing to me either way
@@savage1267 a prequel is something that is set before another
Star Trek: TOS was about 20 years before "The Wrath Of Khan"
The TOS episode "Space Seed" was the episode that Khan was originally introduced, and Chekhov wasn't part of the bridge crew when that episode originally aired
Try again
Day Dreamer I heard Chekov was recovering from something in the other room in sickbay. I’m aware he wasn’t there but I’ve heard someone involved came up with that as an excuse.
@@daydreamer8662 I'm not so sure I agree. Chekhov was a prominent officer who would have been involved in those events. It is perfectly plausible that he just didn't come into the camera's view. It's not as if the imaginary characters knew they had to make an appearance for an audience. Koenig was probably sick that week, what would you have them do? Maybe choosing him to be on Seti-Alpha 5 to encounter the pissed off Khan was meant precisely to inform us he was there in the first place. Just a thought.
I would argue that a worse decision then renaming Enterprise to Star Trek: Enterprise was not allowing the show to air in syndication. UPN wasn't available across the US, which made it exclusive to major markets, leaving many fans completely unable to watch the show. My family had to get recordings from a friend who ponyed up to get UPN on his satellite service just to watch Enterprise. Then after the damn "nipple" episode, no one I knew watched or cared about the show at all anymore and stopped.
Umm, hi. Pardon me but, what was the "Nipple" episode?
Allow me to second that question, "nipple" episode? I could never watch that show cause I could never stomach that theme song! It made my skin crawl
Nipple episode????
@@DPerez3573 I like the theme song. But I agree they should've made an original composition / classical music theme like all Star Trek.
Trip gets pregnant and develops a nipple on his arm
Oh, I think JJ Abrams' lens-flared fiascos and the Kelvin Timeline dwarf any other bad decision.
It was completely diabolical.
Lower Decks, Discovery and Picard say "hold my beer".
@@piotrd.4850 They are all part of JJ Trek anyway, so it is all awful. it's so "successful' that absolutely no one is willing to distribute it internationally.
Star Trek 2009 was a practical test for JJ to direct Star Wars 2015.
Creating the Kelvin Timeline was simply lazy and uncreative (regardless of how well-acted and talented the movies)... If they wanted to say something new, make something new.
American culture as represented by the movie industry shows that the culture has reached the point in history at which it is dying because it now just repeats itself without creating any new ideas.
I love that most of these had to do with the new garbage being shoveled out.
Say what you will about Kelvin Trek(i keep picturing Calvin & Hobbs in Starfleet uniforms, for some reason....), it would've been nice to set Discovery in that reality, as it would've explained why they did what they did in the show....
Some exec somewhere, "I know! let's put struggling 'enterprise' head to head against (already established) SG1!, That'll work!"
Ill never get over seeing Tuvok from Voyager on the the bridge of the TOS Enterprise with Captain Kirk
How about Starship Mine where Tim Russ is a space terrorist that Picard takes out with a neck pinch? 😅
The whole thing with Phillipa is my favorite aspect of Discovery. I think how it all played out was for the best...Well maybe the Michael parts were a bit questionable the extent she went to, to save the mirror universe version, that was hard to buy - But I barely care because I freaking love mirror universe Phillipa.
One behind the scene decision that screwed a few things up: releasing Star Trek Beyond in the middle of July, when it would have been better off released in September of that year. That way they could have really capitalised on the 50th anniversary and put it out in a month where they’d have had zero competition.
Off topic? Who Star Trek needs back the most in my opinion is: Ira Steven Behr. (I'll say it a million times & everywhere)
the old ISB (the one of ds9). I dont like his newly found piety and the way of thinking.
Agreed. Kurtzman should get replaced by ISB.
@@Jeremy_Fisher Agreed, but then again, I would view Kurtzman being replaced by a garden gnome as a step forward ...
Jar Jar Abrams universe had so many plot holes. The Kelvin timeline needs to be tanked.
Agreed… so agreed.
@Michael Shaughnessy It was literally the Budweiser brewery.
Making Lorca the bad guy was (to me) the best thing they could have done in the show so far, was an amazing twist and such a fitting scenario for the actor, other than that i agree lol.
I must be the only one here that actually likes the Kelvin timeline stuff.
yep.
I like it. I think it brought in a lot of people who weren't previous Star Trek fans. My wife, for example, didn't care for TOS, BUT she liked the Kelvin timeline which got her interested in watching TNG movies and even Enterprise.
Killing Jadzia Dax: DS9
The Kelvin Timeline
Negotiate with Borg: Voyager
Killing Data: Nemesis
Killing Jadzia wasn't totally the writers idea. The actress who played her, Terry Farrel, didn't want to come back for the next season so she could focus on her family and home life, so they had to write Jadzia out somehow.
@@DragynGirl Terry Farrell quit because she couldn't agree a new contract with the show. She wanted more money than they were offering so she quit.
Brent Spiner felt he was looking too old to play data. He was right. That was why he died in nemesis.
Uhh...killing Jadzia wasn't *THAT* bad! What more could they have done with her character in one season left? The Ezri thing was more interesting. And it finally paid off Bashir's love for her.
Adam Abbas at the very least, Picard fixed Data’s death but why did he have to die in the first place! He could have simply used that handy aging subroutine. 😂
So... those were at least four mistakes from Discovery and Picard... yeah. Also, they should abolish all that prime and Kelvin nonsense and just decanonise the whole Abrams/Kurtzman stuff, and then follow up from Voyager‘s final episode.
Seriously give me Captain Sisko popping into a post dominion war alpha quadrant 3 decades later. Seriously why do idiots keep on circling the franchise back instead of keep moving forward?
No.
I think it's possible that the Stargate: Universe spinoff was indirectly an attempt to address Voyager having its cake, and trying to eat it too in regards to being able to re-visit Earth/Alpha Quadrant culture(s) while being stuck in the Delta Quadrant. Except they went too far to make SG: Universe too difficult; the crew just couldn't never seem to catch a break from one terrible problem after another while trying to get back to Earth, which caused it to be cancelled. It's tough to find a balance between having crushing problems for characters, and having their cake to eat.
The real problem with STD’s Klingon war arch is that they already did it in DS9
I mean, there is a reason DS9 isn't once mentioned on this list.
@@amc6169 I see what you did there...props!! Although I think they could've added Kira+Odo to the list. Terrible, contrived attempt to shoehorn a love relationship for what they believed to be the fans' expectations. That was something that could've been left to speculation. The bleating hearts that wanted it and the people who would rather a deeper, bonded friendship had emerged. Open-end let's us close it ourselves. Literally the only flaw I ever saw in DS9. It was as close to perfect cinematic screenplay as a TV franchise has ever achieved...imho. :)
@@uqdroma I started out as a shipper for Odo and Kira.
But as the season's progressed I saw such growth in their friendship that I hated the repeated attempts to make Odo a sap!
@@amc6169 DS9 is my favorite Star Trek series! 🖖😁 However, I didn't like how they retconned Sisko into being part-Prophet. I didn't think it was needed to tell the story and I thought it de-valued the character's achievements. They never spelled out that any of his achievements were due to extra Prophet powers, but it became a possibility once they inserted that into his origin. It would mean more to me if his achievements were those of an ordinary human. Do you have any thoughts on that?
@@uqdroma I did like that relationship, but how it played out is what makes it good. I was going to try going into detail with why, but that was getting ridiculously long. In any case, most of the time it's just Odo, near the end there's a short relationship, but by the last episode they're just friends again. It's temporary, but meaningful for those who wanted it.
Isn't it AMAZING that there was a time DS9 was considered the weak link of Trek?
The point about Burnam's "character" boiling down to just being bounced around from one heart-wrenching trauma to another is a problem that's affected several women fictional characters in the last decade or so - perhaps most famously Lara Croft in the 2013 Tomb Raider reboot trilogy. Actual growth and desires are substituted with "how much can we make this person suffer without actually killing them?" It's just an endless parade of physical trauma, losing friends, betrayals, near-death experiences, fear, dread, more physical trauma, loss and.... oh god, can we move on, please?! It's lazy writing and completely misses what makes good characters or their growth arcs.
Well, you know how us women are, just too many emotions. How do we handle them *rolls eyes*
@@lollywit I believe they have indulged themselves too much, and there is no longer a moral context in their life. It's just pure self flagellation while they take everyone else along for the ride, thinking there is some benefit in that. Respect for human life does not appear to be on their list.
Tomb Raider is especially frustrating because the first reboot was supposed to be an origin story to relaunch the series again but after 3 games she's still origin-ing and it's just boring
Well, you could sell it as high speed emancipation - Burnham gets all the trauma in 29 episodes that O'Brien had to suffer in 176 episodes...
No, we're not in a Star Trek renaissance now, it's more like a Star Trek dark age.
Perhaps a Star Trek reanimation, with Abrams as Victor Frankenstein and Kurtzman as Herbert West.
@Matthew Caughey Amen, brother, amen. It's easy to get cynical. You're right, of course. I need to continue hoping that someday these intellectual properties (I don't think I need to list them) are once again in the hands of those who simply wish to tell good stories and not simply lecture us. (Both can be done, but that takes skill.)
My thoughts exactly.
I think they 'confused' quality with quantity. Just because there are two shows 'on' (sort of) at the moment and 'Lower Decks' and whatever the kiddies rubbish will be, and that the SFX and sets of the former two are 'very expensive and flashy' does not make any of them good. Nor does poor writing and wall-to-wall leftist intersectionality. What's on (and planned) now is likely to permanently kill off the franchise (the 'rebooted films' are dead in the water) or at the very least be on hiatus for a generation or more.
Kirk Immunity Syndrome head nod!
I honestly had no problems with Neelix myself. He helped to keep things interesting in the show and help be that kind of character that did not know much about things, but made do with what he learned over time. With so many people who know lots of advance stuff running a ship that size, having a few characters that did not know much of that stuff was refreshing.
9:13 If Romulans wear simple face masks to help protect themselves while performing surgery on Borg drones then imagine what they could do to protect Americans against viruses. If only we had that technology now.