Does the Black Sabbath Laney REISSUE sound like the ORIGINAL?
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- I'm comparing an impressive 2017 Laney LA100BL Supergroup Black Country Customs Half stack Reissue to a original 1969 Laney Supergroup 60 Half stack. I'm playing a 1969 Gibson SG Special. The Reissue cab has Celestion Heritage H75 Greenbacks and the Original cab (Dan Armstrong by Laney) has two '72 T1976 G12H30 75Hz Greenbacks and two '72 T1221 G12M25 75Hz Greenbacks.
It would be nice to hear both with the same cabinet.
I do agree.
Yes, I have a feeling that most of the difference is in the cab
A BIG difference. I expect 90% of it must be attributable to speaker difference" modern fresh ones vs old tired ones but testing beats guessing. If at at all possible add a minute or two to your video with cabinets switched, and/or both heads with new cabinet, both with the old one. Thanks for your very useful demos and comparisons.
Thanks! The reissue speakers are only inspired by the originals. The materials used differ
Yeah, briefly swapping cabs would've really told the tale!
Yeah, I’d love to see both heads thru the old cab. Cuz based on this comparison I wouldn’t go near one of the new heads. It can’t be THAT much of a step down, can it???
The older Laney sounds more mellow and woody while the newer one sounds brighter and pointy. Both sound excellent and I wouldn't kick either to the curb. Your riffage as usual was superb! God bless and rock on 🎸😎👍
Thanks J! Have a great day!
It's a night and day difference, the original has the sound.
Sure bro, close your eyes and pick them apart!
@@Myself6M Just because your ears aren't as trained as other peoples doesn't mean there's no difference. In my group of friends I had the second best ears the guy with the best hearing could tell you what type of glue a speaker was assembled with. Joe Naylor did the blind test with him, Joe was stunned. Professionals that produce and or run mixers all day also have great hearing.
😂😂😂😂😂😂@@sportswolf1
Johan, great job as always. I loved both tones! You had some great riffs and original playing. Would love to see a short follow-up of both amps through the old cab!
If even such authority on Sabbath sound likes the reissue amp/cab combo, there must be something to it 😉 Your videos are always top notch! I'm definitely with you on hearing both amps through the same cab.
Thanks man means a lot that you like it!
Nice comparison and great playing...as always! The '69 Supergroup rig sounds old and the 2017 Supergroup rig sounds new. Both sound really good, however the '69 is closer to Tony's tone. It's a little more organic sounding with more harmonic overtones with a distinctive howl. May very well be due to the speakers. Cheers...Carlsburg!
id love to hear the newer head through the vintage dan armstrong. i’m not a huge fan of the heritage. the 69 setup sounded pretty sweet. Great vid johan!!!
Thanks! 😉
Thanks, glad you like it
Please do a clip of both heads thru the vintage cab!!
I’ll try to do that
Both sound great Johan. Very impressive! The '69 was a bit more compressed. Brilliant playing. Those P90 SGs are really great (and really light).
Thanks Eddie! Glad to hear it! This SG is actually more like a light Les Paul
I think they both sound authentic. If you recorded them in a track with bass and drums and played something like Sabbath, it would sound as close to his original tone as you could get. Great comparison. Hello form Canada!
Hi Ian! Thanks glad you like it!
The new Laney looks BIG and aggressive! But in the audio department it falls quite short!
Man, I really wish you had compared them through the same cab. I'd would have loved to hear how the heads compare by playing both through the reissue cabinet. I love your channel and have been a fan following you for years now.
The 2017 sounds much brighter and in your face I like it much better.
Just so happens I have that exact 60-watt original amp. Yes, superior sound to what I'm hearing from these reissue Supergroups on CZcams videos. Not sure if it's because of the cab or something about the amp itself.
Laney fan here since the 1980's. I've got an AOR combo, etc. and prefer to my Marshall most of the time.
They both sound great but I'm addicted the bitey mids from the original. Just super!
Thanks!
The 60 watt vintage model sounds fat, full, and very much like what's on early Black Sabbath albums. The Reissue sounds good but different. Great comparison and playing!
Thanks Paul! Glad to hear it
As Speakers do the biggest job in transferring the tone, an "out of record" test wit the Reissue Head and the '72 greenbacks would be great. But anyway: I think the Laney amps are widely underrated as the can produce really great tones!
Yeah, vintage Laneys are an INSANE bang for the buck often. Cheers
Even from a crappy smartphone single speaker you can hear the difference and the OG cannot be matched!
Nice to see a proper handwired reissue
Great test Johan.. I used the 'real' 1969 Super Group in 1970 connected to a pair of Laney 4X12's. It was a massive sound.. Slade also used these amps and they were louder than Black Sabbath live 😅..
Thanks! Yeah that’s another great band!
@pda49184 WAIT A SECOND.....
Slade used Laney amps? When did they switch to Hiwatts? I know CAN used Laney Supergroups in the early 70's.
@@Stratman78 I played a support gig with Slade in 1971 at Exeter University and noticed that they had the same Laney backline as my band . I can't tell you when they swapped to another make of backline equipment as our paths never crossed again.
These sound amazing. Now debating on one. 3:31 that old one sounds amazing with that riff. Would love to hear them on the same speaker.
Thanks, glad to hear it
@@JohanSegeborn did you try the amps with the same speakers? If so, what did you think?
The playing is awesome the tone is below average...Love this channel since the beginning...Ty cheers from Lido Isle, Newport Beach, CA. 🌊
Thanks! Glad you like the playing. Cheers!
Hi, Johan!
Sounds very cool! 60 w is absolutely norm! See you!
S
Thanks man, Cheers!
I’m loving the ‘69 60watt 🤘🤘
Thanks!
The reissue sounds overly tight and modern while the original has a much more interesting bite and tone to it. Would be very cool to swap speaker cabs to see how much of the differences are due to the speakers vs the amps. I'm guessing swapping the cabs will change the sound a bunch but that primarily we are hearing the quality of the amps themselves.
I agree, I’ll make a video of that too, if I get the chance
@@JohanSegebornLooking forward to it!!!
Laney ! Very British , very Black Sabbath. I'd prefer the older one, new rig has a grainey high end I find annoying. Great playing as usual.
Thanks James!
well done my friend Cheers Jorge
Cheers my friend!
You did justice to the original rig with those riffs Johan - great demo as always 👍
The difference between the two rigs is obvious. Were the two amps dialed in the same way during the demo?
Thanks glad to hear it! Yeah they had the exact same settings which is listed when I start playing in the video. I chose a setting that sounded good on both. Cheers
In order for this to be a truly fair comparison both amps need to run through the same cab. The main sonic difference is coming from the speakers in them.
They BOTH do the job!
Cheers DMS!
@@JohanSegeborn Yep!
WOULD have been interesting had you used the SAME speakers!
The amps are similar, but the celestions make the difference. Better sound overall.
Indeed. Cheers
The 1969 amp has so much more character!
Yeah,even though the reissue sounds great it is usually impossible to beat an original since the reissue has to play the originals game
Great episode 👋
Thanks!
Excellent job with the Iommi-ish riffs! The 1969 sounds more like Sabbath. The reissue sounds good but brighter and tighter.
Thanks Timmy, glad you like it!
This may be the best video on Sabbath sound you've done so far Johan! I like both heads / cabs. The original sure seems spot on Tony's sound, the reissue is much tighter and maybe even punchier IMO. But one has to consider the reissue speakers as you said, which are probably much brighter and tighter due to the spider, aging etc. Are you gonna blast both heads through the Dan Armstrong cab? Please! Btw have I seen correctly the reissue does have chassis mounted tube sockets? Cheers!
Thanks Alan! Yeah it does have chassis mounted tubes, didn’t the original have that? Cheers!
I have a Dan Armstrong 4x12 too, and it came with Goodmans.
Is that the 69 SG from MB? What ever it is, it sounds killer!! Great demo as usual 👌
Thanks! It is indeed. Soon to be mine I hope
Great demo as always. I agree about the speaker difference
So it's just a matter of switching speakers or wait for the New ones to break in over the years. Cheers from Hawaii Darrell
Thanks Darrell! These speakers won’t sound significantly different over time I’m afraid, only worse actually. With this amp they sound pretty good right now though. Cheers
Killer side by side video. Ive seen these amps.. live.. 2016... never been the same since...lol
They both sound incredible. That's my main takeaway. Not identical but incredible.
Thanks, great to hear that!
The '69 definitely sounds warmer, but the reissue is also great in its own way. I love everything about this video, the vintage guitar, the riffing, the Carlsberg beer for refreshment, mycket bra!
Thanks man, great to hear that! And yeah that last part is crucial 😆
@@JohanSegeborn Ja, absolut!
Digging the 100watter!
Thanks!
They sound different, but the new one will absolutely do the job. I have to assume that the pot settings in the tone stack are truly equal, but I think they’re not quite. And… the first rule of head testing is run them through the same cab.
The difference is plain HUGE, and the old one sounds far closer to old BS stuff
Thanks, yeah the speakers are really hard to replicate
i like both. for my personal taste i prefer more the newer due to the more presence in sound. probabblly due to newer speakers
With those settings the I prefer the old one by a large margin. It sounds evil, and that is what you want when playing Sabbath! Maybe by tweaking the tone knobs the new one could get closer. Cheers Johan!!
Cheers Scott!
Hi Johan!
I Will get two speakers for a 2x12 cab into marshall studio vintage 20w head
In my mind there are 3 mixes: “ for a clàssic rock tones “
. Heritage G12H 30W 55hz + G12H 30W 70aniversary
. Heritage G12H 30W 55hz + Alnico blue
. Heritage G12H 30W 55hz + G12M 20W 75hz
Thank you so much!
Wich Is Better in terms tone?
I wish Gibson USA would do an Sg special with the vintage correc pickup Placement . On the current USA specials the bridge pickup is much closer to the bridge and i find the sound to be quite thiin and harsh . Doesnt have that fat and warm yet super clear tone of a vintage 60s special or a high quality custom shop reissue .
I have been addcited to live recordings of the Who from 1970/71 When Townsend wss still rocking the Late 60s SG specials
The P90 SG/ Hiwatt combo has divine guitar tone especially the clean tones . SGs are my favorite guitars for clean tones . Just like 1957 to 1960 les pauls have somethng the newer ones dont the 1961 to 1971 Sgs have something the Newer dont . There is a sparkle and shimmer to the cleans but also smoothness and warmth
I think this one has the same placement as my guitar: www.gibson.com/en-US/Electric-Guitar/CUSBWT762/Classic-White
This new one is somewhat brighter and lacks in the bottom end which could be due to the different cab/speakers. Still has that bite though
Thanks, yeah I think that’s due to the speakers
@@JohanSegeborn Always great to watch you playing the guitar and testing stuff like this.
I prefer the vintage set up sonically, But that said, The newer Laney still sounds great. Maybe it doesn't need the treble booster in front of it. Awesome riffage!
cheers!
Thanks Steve! Really good to hear that! And yeah the RI has all needed presence built in as I see it. Cheers
I think once you get past the speaker difference they both share the same kind of gain structure and, at least from the perspective of the listener, dynamics seem very close.
Yeah I think so too
Glad to see that your using an SG Special, those P90's are super fat and yet clear 👍
Thanks, yeah extremely organic sounding
The 2017 nails the Paranoid tone.
Thanks Christopher
A P-90 equipped SG into a rip-roaring tube amp just can't be beat.
So true
Speakers and cab Should play a huge part in the sound difference
Yeah indeed, most of it
Good working man
Comparison is important
Thanks my friend! ❤️
No comparison the 69 has the Iomi dark smooth creamy distortion sound loaded with harmonics sounds incredible new amp sounds too harsh
Thanks glad you like it
I owned a vintage 50 watt combo and a vintage 100 watt head. With boost/OD pedals in front, high output HB's and cranked into an attenuator, still all I could achieve was an AC/DC level crunch or 'bees in a jar' fizz. Not the saturated distortion heard on MOR and Vol 4 that I was after. I would like to see a run through/comparison with the new 100 watt master volume model and the 1 watt studio version.
Masters of Reality is actually Laney Klipp and Vol 4 needs a healthy dose of boost
@@JohanSegeborn Is there any article, interview, video, photos of Iommi ever playing a Klipp or admitting to playing one? Never found any evidence of this in the past 30 years. Lots of Laney Klipp sellers on ebay making that claim though.
Hell Yeah 😎🍻🤘
I'd have a look at the schematic and the Super Group is very similar to a Marshall Super Lead 1959. Many british amps are of the same brewing ! it's just the seasoning that changes the tast ! And the speakers !
It does indeed sound like a good plexi
New one seems to have significantly less gain?
Different tone, but really good. The old one is friggin killer
Thanks Scott!
I would give one of my kidneys, or lefty for that LA100BL
Simon is having it for sale at Musikbörsen actually
@@JohanSegeborn I would love to purchase it, but im in the US, and I'm horribly impoverished. A guy can dream tho, right?
Yeah again we come the same conclusion: it all come down to the new speakers that doesn't sound like the old ones.
Despite the best effort from the manufacturers to replicate old speakers it just isn't the same, but I don't think this is due to speakers aging. The difference is in the cone for sure, and the only plausible explanation is that the wood used doesn't exist anymore. Old trees have longer fibers, but now they are all gone and now they are cutted faster and fibers are short. That's why newer speakers sounds less "woody" (imo).
Paper is definitely one big contributor. The processes of today produces too regular aligned paper which translates poorly to sound I think
@@JohanSegeborn Yeah this sounds like it can definitely be part of why big brand speakers reissues just don't sound right! But even then some of the boutique speakers manufacturers that are not dependant of this modern paper manufacturing tried to replicate the paper from pulsonic cone - and none succeded. That's why I think the tree thing is why we won't see any successful pulsonic cone paper copy any time soon.
I have perfect pitch bro! And I suffer from hyperacousis, I always sleep with earplugs. I mean if you like thinking you have a good pitch without evidence. Go for it. Otherwise take the distorted harnony test. If you get 100 percent, it means we are about equal. I doubt it though😅
man those are wildly different, the repro is much brighter, and the overdrive isn't as smooth, the brightness could be a deal with the cab, but the overdrive is just all wrong for Sabbath
You mean this BSM? I compared it to the dedicated RM BSM model and preferred this one. You know that Iommis Range master was allegedly full range right?
@@JohanSegeborn ? I honestly wasn't paying attention to which was which lol. Cheers though, always a skookum vid from you.
I'm curious how you came by #29. I'd heard only five of these made it to the US, and I have #25 and #27. Always assumed it was #25-#29 that went to the US.
I don't have #26 because I bought the first one, played with it for a few days, then did tremendous scrounging to get the second one so I could run them in stereo. Someone bought #26 in the interim.
The reissue definitely sounds brighter, but that's probably due to the old speakers and the 60W maybe working a bit harder. These are not sterile amps.
This rig is currently being sold at Musikbörsen in Gothenburg, so you can ask them about that
I’m biased (pun!) because I chose to go down vintage original route and I prefer that sound but new version not bad. I do worry about speakers as I’ve just replaced 4 celestion Chinese 80w’s with 1974 vintage 20w and…. You can guess 😂
Yeah, you need almost twice the power in speakers if you’re gonna crank a tube amp on a regular basis
Johan, I meant that I want some speaker break up at a reasonably low volume- big watt speakers are so dry or unresponsive until there’s a lot of volume
Why don't you do a test where you compare both heads in the same cabinet?
Time is the main reason I’m afraid. They’re gonna sound super similar through the same cab. I’ve done that for numerous other rigs. The speakers determine the tone. The importance of the amp is mainly to make you play good in a certain genre.
The cabinet is the difference. Am i right Sageborn?
😮 When did you get a wrap tail SG with p90s !??!
It’s an SG Special. Maybe someone lent it to him for the video? If he owns it, I think he should play it more often!
I’m buying from Musikbörsen here in Gothenburg, Simons store. The stop tail is repro, the original was that bolted bridge, that Im not fond of.
The 69 sounds way better to me 🤘!!
Thanks man
The speakers. That's all I'm saying.
No comparison through same speakers?
You're too kind. The old stuff sounds like rock.
The new one sounds more like Sabbath recordings to me, but im sure the new speakers atribute to that.
I though the exact opposite..lol. The OG nails it, but the new one, while sounds good, fell a bit short. 🤷🏻
How does the 2017 sound through the vintage cab?
Most likely almost identical
I'm not a 4x12 user, but is it normal to have a 16 ohm 4x12 cab?
Yeah if the speakers in it are 16 ohm individually, like Marshall for instance
Not really a fair fight. Different amp and cab. Those new celestions are just not going to sound anywhere close... I'd like to hear the reissue through the old cab
Yeah, the speakers is where it’s at indeed. These reissues were sold as half stacks I think so that’s how I’m comparing them
Hi . whats the year of the original amp and the reissue amp ? The cabs are from what year? Thanks
Hi! 2017 RI amp and cab, 1969 Original Amp, 1972 ‘Original’ cab
Original amp has more gain, and sound more like Iommi. New one needs more gain and the speakers don't sound right?
Thanks, I think that’s due to the speakers indeed
The original BY FAR the best ...much more musical and warm.
like the newer more present amp recorded and isolated ...
The new speakers have less of the very airy top end so it’s less spatially rich
should have payed onthe same cabinet
Låter som Sabbath
Why would you even want to do that. I saw them in stoke on Trent in Staffordshire uk. Had to come out before my ears were permanently damaged. I’ve seen tons of bands in the seventies and they were the worst in loudness by far. Bloody ridiculous.
Mostly likely not.
I actually think it does a great job. The difference is mainly in the speakers
The new one sounded more like Sabbath. If you switch the labels to see if you could trick us I would have been fooled
😆 I’m lousy in blind tests myself