I suppose reaching out to an estabilished publisher can be a good start and then see how things go. Ultimately, yeah, we should all become self-published at some point down the road.
Very interesting video, thanks and good luck. A great way to do research on games is to read their manuals. It's rare these days that a publisher won't put the rules PDF on their website. It gives you a really good feel for what each game is about.
What a great video. I’ve just designed a game and am super excited about it. Have no idea on next steps but this video is a great start for me. Thank you so much.
Hi Adam I just found your video and you gave me lots of hope. I'm a game designer from South America and I'm starting to produce my prototypes. You have been of great help!
Great video Adam! Your games look really cool, it'd be great to hear about them more in depth now that they have officially been announced! I actually followed the Cucumber Sandwich campaign from start to finish on Kickstarter and personally I think that they were a little too in their estimates for pricing and funding goal. This may have been a big reason that they didn't make that much money. You are right that Kickstarter can be really tough, accurate pricing estimations and crowd building are definitely two of the biggest factors in a successful campaign.
Thanks Josh! Yeah, I've met the team behind Cucumber Sandwich several times over the last few months (they're really charming, intelligent guys despite the juvenile sense of humour in the game!) & I know that they were very pleased with the modest success of the Kickstarter. They certainly didn't expect to make a fortune from that platform, but they do have longer term plans for the game. The Kickstarter campaign was exactly that - a kick start. I just found it a fascinating project: a game I would never buy for myself, but one which I can totally see a market for (and actually very little to really object to in the content of the game - in an era of deliberately offensive games, this one was very mild). I didn't follow the Kickstarter closely enough to spot any errors in their funding projections and costings, but you may well be right.
I just stumbled across your channel, and so far I really like your game design stuff. Not sure how it took so many years for it to come up when I'm always watching board game stuff. Stupid youtube algorithm.
Glad you’re enjoying it! Yes, the algorithm doesn’t seem to appreciate the channel much!! :D So I mainly focus on “searchable” videos like this one. Glad you stumbled across it.
i know im asking the wrong place but does anybody know of a tool to log back into an Instagram account? I somehow lost my account password. I appreciate any tips you can give me!
Brilliant video, found when searching CZcams for help regarding publishing a game I am currently designing. Your advice is very honest and given in a very clear way. I knew about the various ways to get a game published but this was really useful in explaining all the pros & cons of each route. Will certainly check out your other videos for advice and who knows maybe I'll be a millionaire this time next year! :)
@@AdaminWales oh I definitely will! I've watched quite a few of your videos now and they all have great advice. I know I probably won't make millions unless I make a 'Pie Face' game, and I think the video you made that mentioned the brutal reality of the board game industry was very honest. I've started doing this myself not to make a load of money (although that would be awesome of course) but really because I enjoy playing board games. And I wondered if I could actually make a half decent game myself. I also studied Graphic Design in Uni but dropped out half way through for various reasons. I've lost alot of my knowledge in it so started this 'project' to try and get back into it as I am aiming to do most of the graphic design work on it as well. In your experienced opinion how many initial playtests should a game be given? I'm sure my mechanics hold up now after about 20 playtests, but being a card game with 6 different characters to choose from I am aiming to do about 35 altogether to make sure there isn't any game breaking combinations.
Really interesting vid. Thanks for sharing your experience and many congrats on your forthcoming titles about to be launched! I will note that you seem to present a slightly simpler narrative than I'm comfortable with. Big Potato don't exactly just do self publication anymore, with titles from Matt Edmonson and Rikki Tahta. The first 3 steps are pretty much subsets of each other and of course self-publishing can be a great first step towards getting a bigger publisher. (I'm not the only one having gone down this route - The Chameleon was originally self-published as Gooseberry). Of course, I understand that with any shorter video, you can't explain every nuance and it was certainly a good watch. Some very helpful cutaway shots to help depict what you're talking about. All the best with future stuff!
Bez Shahriari Thanks Bez - you're right that there are many nuances & crossovers between these different approaches. Your experience is an example of this - a Kickstarter attracting the interest of publishers. The intention of these videos is to give a basic understanding of game design to newcomers - not to present a masterclass (who am I to do that?). I think Big Potato is rather a good example of self publishing and where it can lead. Of course, most publishers started out as one-person-bands (or a tiny team) but Big Potato's rise has been particularly visible and imaginative - and it emerged from outside the hobby. Big Potato was founded with a single very successful game (Linkee). They didn't take the usual recommended routes (indeed from what I understand they weren't big hobby gamers). They pitched to the Dragons Den (UK equivalent of Shark Tank) and turned down investment instead taking a loan from their parents. Yet they've managed to create a strong brand, massive sales, and spawned a TV quiz show. They still have one foot outside the hobby, and one foot within - recognising that all gamers are not present on BoardgameGeek.com but instead setting up stalls at music festivals and going where the casual players are. You are right that they now work with freelance designers - but they started out self-publishing, without using crowdfunding. The usual stance regarding publication that you hear on boardgame-related CZcams channels is Kickstart OR pitch to publishers. I wanted to highlight that there are other routes too. The other common misconception is that you can't make money with boardgame design. I don't believe this. I'm not saying it'll happen for me - but there is plenty of scope for imaginative people to do well from this industry. Looking forward to catching up with you soon Bez! Essen?
Thanks for the considered reply! Yep, Big Potato's reach has been fantastic. They have a fantastic presence at all the shows possible - D&AD was one I recently saw them at. They did actually sell their first title (Linkee) and crowdfund their 2nd (Bucket of Doom) so again they are following several of your paths. I would say all 4. I guess that one lesson is perhaps to play to all your strengths and to not limit yourself to just one path. I'll be at Essen, with Wibbell++. :-) I'll almost certainly see you if you come over. :-) Do you have anything currently planned for Tues/Wed/evenings? I'll probably stop by Gigamic's party, PTUK and also the best parties I hear about. ;-)
Bez Shahriari I tend to be so exhausted after a day at Essen Spiel that I don't do much evening socialising! But I'll certainly be at the Playtest UK evening & I'll call by your stand to say Hello of course!
I just wanted to say that you have great video presentation skills! It's not easy to talk continuously without a script for 23minutes and still sound completely coherent! You should get into more video work and become a professional presenter or talk show host!
Hi Benaiah, glad you enjoyed it. I’m interested in the different tone comment. What did you see different in this video, that you liked? Was the content different to recent videos? Or was it the more conversational style (less editing)?
I guess what I’m getting at is that this conversational style is inherently different than a tightly edited video where you have to keep a consistent tone and nail punch lines. Here, the format is “man is honest for 23 minutes straight.” Maybe not as gripping for some but there’s value in both
Interesting... At the moment I have made a prototype of my first game. (Still working on 2 others and loads more concepts) And for me it went like this: Find an investor/partner Finish the rules and prototype game Find artists that make the looks and details Find a factory that wants to build the game Sell the game online or to stores, directly from the factory. To be honest tho, I'm still in the process of finding a good company. But I am certain this will succeed.
@@cecillewolters1995 hey mathinius, ik ben Nederlands en bezig met een spel, zou je het wat vinden om eens wat over en weer te praten, ideeën uitwisselen en elkaar helpen?
@@bryangroenenberg1443 Dag Bryan, ja dat lijkt mij opzich wel leuk :) Momenteel ben ik al klaar met een spel en werk ik aan een ander kaartspel. Ondertussen zoek ik een producent om poppetjes in meerdere kleuren per poppetje te maken, de rest heb ik allemaal al. En ik probeer China te vermijden voor productie, lastig kwa communicatie en je idee word hoogstwaarschijnlijk gekopieerd, laat staan wat er met je producten kan gebeuren onderweg naar Nederland. Als je wilt kan je mij zo toevoegen op Facebook ;)
atohms Glad it was helpful to you! My third game launched this weekend at U.K. Games Expo (Pikoko) and it is a real thrill seeing the games hitting retail, regardless of any financial reward! :)
Adam's Boardgame Wales i hope to do the same... 2 games in prototype in various phases. Keep it up! Really enjoying your videos & best of luck in future endavours! I’ll keep an eye out for your games.
Hey Adam. This is a great video on how to market your own board games! It's cool that you've also had lots of experience doing so and created some fun-looking board games. But when marketing your board game designs, do you have to create patents for your board games? Or is that an extra step that doesn't need to be taken?
Thank you! This was very informative and helpful. I have one question. In today’s market are children still the main demographic board game publishers focus on or have adult games become the main focus?
Hi Adam. Just found you, amazing video! I've been smalltime working on a medium-large sized game since 2015, and finally made a paper prototype of it, a little more than a year ago - a big map, pages of rules, hundreds of cards, and lots of tokens. I played it twice with some friends who really enjoyed it, and got a lot of good feedback. Being busy with other things, I haven't touched it since. Now however, I have around 4 months with nothing on my hands, and I would really like to take it somewhere. I have *no desire of making money* on it, I just want to get it "out there". I do have a few follow-up questions, if you can find the time! - What qualifies as a prototype, and how could I potentially produce one? - Should I look into Copyright? Is there any chance that a store or a publisher will steal my idea when I present it to them? - How big of a disadvantage is it that my game is not in English? Should I work on translating it before making the prototype? - Is it a disadvantage to focus on one big game, rather than several smaller and simpler games? I'll also be happy to hear from anyone else with experience!
Fanrik Hi - thanks for your message and questions! I’ve tried to answer them in videos rather than writing a reply - first one was posted this evening: “Will someone steal my idea?” Hope they are helpful!
Hi Rodney, I'm not sure that "print on demand" is really a viable business model. But I might be wrong. Perhaps someone has made some money this way. There are certainly "print on demand" websites available, and I know that many new designers use them. But I'm not aware of any big commercial successes coming through this route. Flashpoint Fire Rescue started on Gamecrafter but was then picked up by a publisher and licensed in the usual way - so "print on demand" does have the potential to showcase your design to publishers - although this is a very rare case. It is also useful for producing fairly professional looking prototypes. I don't know much detail about distribution to shops etc. because I always license to publishers. But if I were planning to try this, I would start by going to many conventions and building relationships with other publishers/distributors. I know often the games from first-time publishers reach the shops through collaboration with other more established publishers. I'm sure you can make deals with individual shops, but I suspect the quantities wouldn't be adequate to make a sustainable business.
Adam's Boardgame Wales Thank you so much for getting back to me. I’ve just started using the Game Crafter myself. I think there’s an opportunity for people to at least make a profit from it ie more money than they spent as opposed to a viable business. Even if you make enough to fund the next one. I’ll let you know how it goes. Regardless I’m having fun with it!
Coolest congrates, how do i join the boardgame group cheers, i have a prototype ready as well and went throu a few play test as well. and if u use show your prototypes to publishers do we need to get copyright or patents protections first? and will publishers take your ideas after showing the mechanics and designs to them?
Hi - here’s my video about ideas, protection & intellectual property theft. Hope it helps! czcams.com/video/oTbHvDb8DHg/video.html I’m not sure which group you’re referring to - I’m not currently part of any gaming / game design groups.
Hey Adam, great video! I had a question about the advances you mentioned. Do those normally need to be paid back to the game company if they decide not to publish the game? From what I’ve heard about the music business, advances must be paid back to the label regardless, whether in profits or collecting from the band members. Does it work this way in the game industry?
Hi - I’ve never heard of a game publisher asking for an advance to be repaid. Every contract is different, so I guess it’s possible, but the standard approach is that the advance is non-refundable. Indeed, it is the main “consolation” when a publisher signs a game and never publishes it - which wastes a lot of time for designers. I have personally had contracts handed back to me months or years after they were signed, and I have never been required to repay any advance payments. The largest I’ve received was 2000 Euros for a game which was never actually published. It was a nice consolation when the publisher dropped the game.
Useful video! But I made a really complex board game, full of rules,dice,books,equipments,scenarios, creaures and spells exc...i mean, I'm pretty sure I got "the millionaire idea", but I dont know how to move after...... I need help!
It’s surprising when you first hear the figures! But after the retail store has a cut, and the distributor has a cut, there’s not all that much left! The publisher obviously takes the bulk - for the manufacturing costs. And then there’s the artists, graphic designers, developers, miniature sculptors etc, who all need to be paid too. The designer is a very important part of the team - but there are so many other factors. Don’t forget £1 or £2 of a game which sells hundreds of thousands of copies is a very nice sum indeed. Of course, most games don’t achieve these numbers - but that’s what we’re all aiming for!
I am making a social deduction board game, it’s similar to mafia but every character has their own name and ability. But dose anyone have any suggestions of how to make it more different from mafia?
Josh Blake Hi Josh - first thing is to playtest it with as many people as possible! Here is a link to my video about play testing. czcams.com/video/IgRv8mF7cPo/video.html That will bring up loads of conversations about your game - what works; what doesn’t; what similar games are out there etc. I would also play as many social deduction games as you can find - and try and find a gap i.e. something which hasn’t been done before. There are loads of great examples to try! Start with The Resistance for example, the the “One Night Ultimate” range of games. Mafia De Cuba is good. And Deception: Murder in Hong Kong. You need to find something which is a unique selling point for your game.
@@AdaminWales Wondering if playtesting your own new board game to specialist is a good idea or not? Because the ideas behind may get stolen by someone with better networks or better designers/promoters...etc
Alexandrebressand Hi Alexandre, it’s a frequent concern for new designers - but generally it’s not as big an issue as you’d imagine. I talk about it in the following video: czcams.com/video/oTbHvDb8DHg/video.html
Hi Petra. It’s a tricky way to start. If you’ve designed a game based on a classic (i.e. public domain) game, then you just need to work out how to market it. In this video I talk about how other people have done this: czcams.com/video/15Zq8GNA2Ow/video.html If you’ve adapted a more modern game, with a named designer or established publisher, then you have more of a problem. Just like you can’t reword a few chapters of a popular novel and re-release it as your own, you can’t really tweak somebody else’s work and sell your own boardgame based off of it. If your idea is more of the latter (tweaking a game which is owned by someone) then I’d suggest… keep tweaking. Adapt it in all sorts of ways until it no longer resembles the original. There are many similar games out there, so there’s nothing wrong with a having a few basic similarities - but if people are going to accuse you of ripping off their idea, you’re going to have a hard time marketing your game (and potentially legal difficulties).
Hi! What do I do if I have a half-done boardgame which is based on a TV series, so it's copyrighted? I really love this game and I think it would have a future (so I don't really want to just leave it in the drawer...) Thanks for the help!
In all honesty, there’s a very specific way that these things work - when they want a game for a specific intellectual property (TV or film) publishers approach designers they already know, or design in-house. So it is almost impossible to do it the other way round (design for a TV series & then pitch to publishers). Of course nothing is totally impossible - but there is no standard route to make this work, and most publishers would not be interested in a game based on an existing property. So your options would be: 1. Self-publish and obtain a license to use the intellectual property yourself. This would be extremely expensive in most cases, and financially setting yourself up for a big loss. 2. Re-theme the game to a generic setting, and pitch it to publishers. You could always mention “this game is about generic superheroes but it would fit very well with a Marvel theme…” just in case! You never know. You certainly have to be adaptable in this business.
@@AdaminWales Thank you very much for your answer! I really appreciate it! Well then I think, I can pretty much throw the idea in the trash, because there's really no way to re-theme the game. It's all about characters and ships from the Stargate franchise which is currently in possession of Amazon if I remember correctly... It started as a short, small project, intended for friends and family-use only, but then I couldn't stop expanding it, and it grew very serious, a bit complex, but entirely awesome! I hoped maybe I could share the reward of all that effort with the world and make something of it. Now I'm not sure if it's worth finishing 😅 Thank you for your help anyway!😁
Question? Is it legal to create am add on/ mod for an existing commercial board game. Not using any of their art or logos... just referencing some of the locations / names and properties in the game. No logo or artwork use at all. Just curious before I develop... if it is a 50/50 perhaps I will use an S-Corp to protect personal liability
I’m not a lawyer so I’m afraid the answer is that I don’t know. I suspect that it might be a breach of copyright since you are using their written word (just as you couldn’t write a short story about Harry Potter and use locations from that franchise). It may also be a breach of trademark if they’ve registered one. But I’m really no expert on this - so please do some research rather than following my advice! Good luck with it.
Assuming a Board Game is Marketable & I wanted to use a popular franchise like Harry Potter to increase its appeal. What suggestions might you recommend for pursuing this route. Your opinion on the topic is much appreciated.
In general it’s not likely to happen. Most games with a popular license are commissioned by publishers directly: i.e. the publisher purchases the license to the franchise, then seeks out a designer to make a game for that license. You could self publish, and purchase the license yourself, but that’s going to be very expensive - and almost certainly going to be unachievable with a license the size of Harry Potter. I would suggest re-theming the game to give it a generic theme - “Wizard school” is a perfectly good theme - then seek publishers for the game. That way, if they do have access to the Harry Potter license they could potentially make it happen. But most companies don’t work with intellectual properties. Your best chance would be if you directed your pitches towards companies who regularly make games based on film/TV properties. But those companies tend to be the ones who are hardest to get any response from. They often have their own internal processes, which are hard to infiltrate until you have a strong portfolio of published games under your belt. I have been in the same boat! I’ve designed games based around popular properties (at the request of publishers) then when the game is rejected, I’ve been left to think: what do I do with it now? Re-theming is the easiest approach.
Good advice! thank you! I am working on a children's board game. Currently working on the trade mark application. Did you complete your own trade mark application or hired someone?
Hi Stephanie, I have never worked with trademarks - and even if my games were trademarked that would be something a publisher would sort out rather than me. Here’s my video about protecting your intellectual property: czcams.com/video/oTbHvDb8DHg/video.html
I'm very much enjoying your videos Adam, but the audio always seems very low volume. I notice you didn't mention print-on-demand marketplaces like gamecrafter or drive-through cards, what are you thoughts on those services?
Thanks Alex - I'm going to try and increase the volume for the next video. I have very limited experience of Gamecrafter. The games which I have seen produced in this way have looked pretty amateurish - like a good quality prototype. I'm not aware of anyone making significant waves in the industry (and hence significant income) through this route of publishing. But maybe I've missed it. I think they're an excellent resource for producing prototypes though. I wish their were more such resources in the UK. Ivory Gamemaker is a new UK company attempting something similar to Gamecrafter - I've ordered some cards from them - waiting to see the results.
Yeah certainly the barrier to market is a lot lower which means the quality is often lower. I did a bit of research and a handful of games have had decent sales (215 games with over 100 sales, 27 over 500 sales, 21 over 750, 13 over 1000) so it might be a way to help a hobby designer to generate enough revenue over time to fund going to a convention or buying art for a game if they intend to go to kickstarter. A few of the designers on gamecrafter have gone on to sign with a publisher or to kickstarter. I'd not heard of Ivory Gamemaker I'll be interested to hear how good they are.
Keindzjim I am a dentist but also trained as a professional actor, and I run my own training company for dentists. Adding game-design into the mix, I have a pretty diverse working week!
I'll forgive the clickbait title, since the obvious answer (despite your caveats) is "You don't." I'd be interested in knowing what top sellers have actually sold in the millions of units, besides maybe the obvious handful of titles. Anyway, good video, and best wishes for the success of your newest creations! P.S. The volume on this video seemed way low.
Apologies for the clickbait title - it never occurred to me that it could be seen that way! Not intentional! :) I've changed the title now to be more representative of the content. The reason for the original title "How do I make a million?" was because it's a common question I get asked: "How do I make a million from selling my game design?" or alternatively, "So, are you going to make millions from your games then?" I've never worked out the volume settings on these videos - if you watch back through my old videos, I think the audio levels are all over the place! :D I've given up trying to make professional quality videos - spent a lot of time and money on mics and cameras and got nowhere!!! But feedback noted - I'll raise the levels a little next time.
jesusfack, I am desgining my own game and listening to this made me quite sad. I have my own plan for sharing the complete game, instead of printing use wood and use some of external sources, but along with corona, I cant travel anywhere to talk to publishers and other parties. I guess I will just hire some youtuber/influencer to promote my game, rather than rely on publisher that gives me 7% of the final price, fak that.
Yeah, 7% seems low (and that’s actually at the upper range of normal). It works out at about 3-4% of retail cost. If you have a genuine hit, it will still make you a lot of money, but most games don’t sell more than a few thousand copies so royalties are generally low. That said, the profit margins from self-publication are usually very low too. Retailers rarely buy direct from a publisher - they buy from a distributor. So as a publisher you have to sell at a huge discount to a distributor, who takes their cut before selling to retailers. Once you take out production costs, this leaves little for the publisher. The long and short of it is - whether you are self-publishing OR working on a royalty basis, you need huge sales to make a decent return. And this is difficult to achieve when there are thousands of games released each year. But if you are one of the rare few who manage to sell hundreds of thousands of copies, you can make a good amount of money. If self-publishing it will be a huge amount of work to make this happen. Good luck though whichever way you choose to go!
Thanks for the feedback. This is a video from 5 years ago. I’ve made a lot of changes to my audio set up over the last few years, but I still get comments about it from time to time, so there are clearly still issues. I’d be interested to know if you’re having the same issue with my most recent video. Let me know if it’s improved. czcams.com/video/0ZQXPN-yzPc/video.html
Seems like the best route would be to form a partnership with an artist and a marketer (with you being the designer) and start your own company.
Yes--then your losses are cut in three :)
Still its not easy to self publish as a first time or a small publisher. Getting accross to the massess is a huge challenge.
I suppose reaching out to an estabilished publisher can be a good start and then see how things go. Ultimately, yeah, we should all become self-published at some point down the road.
Great to not only see a new video from you, but to see your games. Really pleased for you and I am looking forward to hearing more about them!
Very interesting video, thanks and good luck. A great way to do research on games is to read their manuals. It's rare these days that a publisher won't put the rules PDF on their website. It gives you a really good feel for what each game is about.
A fascinating and insightful video Adam. All the best with your games!
Thanks for the deep insides Adam!
You deserve all the best!
I'm really happy for you Adam, I hope they sell well. I'll look out for them.
Thanks Paul!
Really appreciate the open and honest storytelling!
Many thanks for sharing this. Very informative and useful video. Keep up the good work!
Thank you Adam, great tips, especially about publishing.
What a great video. I’ve just designed a game and am super excited about it. Have no idea on next steps but this video is a great start for me. Thank you so much.
You’re welcome. Good luck!
Hi Adam I just found your video and you gave me lots of hope. I'm a game designer from South America and I'm starting to produce my prototypes. You have been of great help!
Good luck Mauricio! Glad you found this video helpful.
Great video Adam! Your games look really cool, it'd be great to hear about them more in depth now that they have officially been announced!
I actually followed the Cucumber Sandwich campaign from start to finish on Kickstarter and personally I think that they were a little too in their estimates for pricing and funding goal. This may have been a big reason that they didn't make that much money. You are right that Kickstarter can be really tough, accurate pricing estimations and crowd building are definitely two of the biggest factors in a successful campaign.
Thanks Josh!
Yeah, I've met the team behind Cucumber Sandwich several times over the last few months (they're really charming, intelligent guys despite the juvenile sense of humour in the game!) & I know that they were very pleased with the modest success of the Kickstarter. They certainly didn't expect to make a fortune from that platform, but they do have longer term plans for the game. The Kickstarter campaign was exactly that - a kick start. I just found it a fascinating project: a game I would never buy for myself, but one which I can totally see a market for (and actually very little to really object to in the content of the game - in an era of deliberately offensive games, this one was very mild). I didn't follow the Kickstarter closely enough to spot any errors in their funding projections and costings, but you may well be right.
I just stumbled across your channel, and so far I really like your game design stuff. Not sure how it took so many years for it to come up when I'm always watching board game stuff. Stupid youtube algorithm.
Glad you’re enjoying it! Yes, the algorithm doesn’t seem to appreciate the channel much!! :D So I mainly focus on “searchable” videos like this one. Glad you stumbled across it.
Great video!!! really enjoyed it! thank you
thank you, amazing video!
Awesome content. Really useful for where I’m at, at the moment with design etc. Good luck with your games mate 👍
i know im asking the wrong place but does anybody know of a tool to log back into an Instagram account?
I somehow lost my account password. I appreciate any tips you can give me!
@Joshua Matias instablaster =)
Brilliant video, found when searching CZcams for help regarding publishing a game I am currently designing. Your advice is very honest and given in a very clear way. I knew about the various ways to get a game published but this was really useful in explaining all the pros & cons of each route. Will certainly check out your other videos for advice and who knows maybe I'll be a millionaire this time next year! :)
If you manage to make a million, make a video and tell us how you did it!! I could certainly do with a few tips! :)
@@AdaminWales oh I definitely will! I've watched quite a few of your videos now and they all have great advice. I know I probably won't make millions unless I make a 'Pie Face' game, and I think the video you made that mentioned the brutal reality of the board game industry was very honest. I've started doing this myself not to make a load of money (although that would be awesome of course) but really because I enjoy playing board games. And I wondered if I could actually make a half decent game myself. I also studied Graphic Design in Uni but dropped out half way through for various reasons. I've lost alot of my knowledge in it so started this 'project' to try and get back into it as I am aiming to do most of the graphic design work on it as well. In your experienced opinion how many initial playtests should a game be given? I'm sure my mechanics hold up now after about 20 playtests, but being a card game with 6 different characters to choose from I am aiming to do about 35 altogether to make sure there isn't any game breaking combinations.
"how do I make money from it?"
"Well that's the neat part! You don't!"
Yep, that’s the truth for most designers sadly!
thank you for that great video with lots of iformations
You’re welcome. Thanks for watching! :)
Could you do a video on making your prototypes? These are extremely helpful and would love to see that process!
Thanks for watching. Here’s a video I made about prototyping czcams.com/video/KlxEF1zXbK0/video.html
Thank you for this video :)
Very helpful. Thank you.
You're welcome :)
Really interesting vid.
Thanks for sharing your experience and many congrats on your forthcoming titles about to be launched!
I will note that you seem to present a slightly simpler narrative than I'm comfortable with. Big Potato don't exactly just do self publication anymore, with titles from Matt Edmonson and Rikki Tahta.
The first 3 steps are pretty much subsets of each other and of course self-publishing can be a great first step towards getting a bigger publisher. (I'm not the only one having gone down this route - The Chameleon was originally self-published as Gooseberry).
Of course, I understand that with any shorter video, you can't explain every nuance and it was certainly a good watch.
Some very helpful cutaway shots to help depict what you're talking about.
All the best with future stuff!
Bez Shahriari Thanks Bez - you're right that there are many nuances & crossovers between these different approaches. Your experience is an example of this - a Kickstarter attracting the interest of publishers.
The intention of these videos is to give a basic understanding of game design to newcomers - not to present a masterclass (who am I to do that?).
I think Big Potato is rather a good example of self publishing and where it can lead. Of course, most publishers started out as one-person-bands (or a tiny team) but Big Potato's rise has been particularly visible and imaginative - and it emerged from outside the hobby. Big Potato was founded with a single very successful game (Linkee). They didn't take the usual recommended routes (indeed from what I understand they weren't big hobby gamers). They pitched to the Dragons Den (UK equivalent of Shark Tank) and turned down investment instead taking a loan from their parents. Yet they've managed to create a strong brand, massive sales, and spawned a TV quiz show. They still have one foot outside the hobby, and one foot within - recognising that all gamers are not present on BoardgameGeek.com but instead setting up stalls at music festivals and going where the casual players are. You are right that they now work with freelance designers - but they started out self-publishing, without using crowdfunding.
The usual stance regarding publication that you hear on boardgame-related CZcams channels is Kickstart OR pitch to publishers. I wanted to highlight that there are other routes too.
The other common misconception is that you can't make money with boardgame design. I don't believe this. I'm not saying it'll happen for me - but there is plenty of scope for imaginative people to do well from this industry.
Looking forward to catching up with you soon Bez! Essen?
Thanks for the considered reply!
Yep, Big Potato's reach has been fantastic. They have a fantastic presence at all the shows possible - D&AD was one I recently saw them at. They did actually sell their first title (Linkee) and crowdfund their 2nd (Bucket of Doom) so again they are following several of your paths. I would say all 4.
I guess that one lesson is perhaps to play to all your strengths and to not limit yourself to just one path.
I'll be at Essen, with Wibbell++. :-) I'll almost certainly see you if you come over. :-)
Do you have anything currently planned for Tues/Wed/evenings? I'll probably stop by Gigamic's party, PTUK and also the best parties I hear about. ;-)
Bez Shahriari I tend to be so exhausted after a day at Essen Spiel that I don't do much evening socialising! But I'll certainly be at the Playtest UK evening & I'll call by your stand to say Hello of course!
See you then!
I just wanted to say that you have great video presentation skills! It's not easy to talk continuously without a script for 23minutes and still sound completely coherent! You should get into more video work and become a professional presenter or talk show host!
Thanks Nimora:)
Oh wow this is a way different tone than the current ones. I appreciate it
Hi Benaiah, glad you enjoyed it. I’m interested in the different tone comment. What did you see different in this video, that you liked? Was the content different to recent videos? Or was it the more conversational style (less editing)?
I guess what I’m getting at is that this conversational style is inherently different than a tightly edited video where you have to keep a consistent tone and nail punch lines. Here, the format is “man is honest for 23 minutes straight.” Maybe not as gripping for some but there’s value in both
@@benaiah93 Really useful feedback - thanks! :)
Interesting...
At the moment I have made a prototype of my first game.
(Still working on 2 others and loads more concepts)
And for me it went like this:
Find an investor/partner
Finish the rules and prototype game
Find artists that make the looks and details
Find a factory that wants to build the game
Sell the game online or to stores, directly from the factory.
To be honest tho, I'm still in the process of finding a good company.
But I am certain this will succeed.
Let me know if you find such company plz
@@MacMyKitty Sure, this week I'll get the quotations. So it's extremely close by now ;)
Do note that I am living in The Netherlands.
@@cecillewolters1995 hey mathinius, ik ben Nederlands en bezig met een spel, zou je het wat vinden om eens wat over en weer te praten, ideeën uitwisselen en elkaar helpen?
@@bryangroenenberg1443 Dag Bryan, ja dat lijkt mij opzich wel leuk :)
Momenteel ben ik al klaar met een spel en werk ik aan een ander kaartspel.
Ondertussen zoek ik een producent om poppetjes in meerdere kleuren per poppetje te maken, de rest heb ik allemaal al.
En ik probeer China te vermijden voor productie, lastig kwa communicatie en je idee word hoogstwaarschijnlijk gekopieerd, laat staan wat er met je producten kan gebeuren onderweg naar Nederland.
Als je wilt kan je mij zo toevoegen op Facebook ;)
Very usefull rant! Thank you!
atohms Glad it was helpful to you! My third game launched this weekend at U.K. Games Expo (Pikoko) and it is a real thrill seeing the games hitting retail, regardless of any financial reward! :)
Adam's Boardgame Wales i hope to do the same... 2 games in prototype in various phases. Keep it up! Really enjoying your videos & best of luck in future endavours! I’ll keep an eye out for your games.
Hey Adam. This is a great video on how to market your own board games! It's cool that you've also had lots of experience doing so and created some fun-looking board games. But when marketing your board game designs, do you have to create patents for your board games? Or is that an extra step that doesn't need to be taken?
Here is a video answering exactly that question! :)
czcams.com/video/oTbHvDb8DHg/video.html
Thank you! This was very informative and helpful.
I have one question.
In today’s market are children still the main demographic board game publishers focus on or have adult games become the main focus?
Remi Lane Thanks for the question are I - I made a video to try and answer it fully! czcams.com/video/4IiPoKjUxXU/video.html
Hi Adam. Just found you, amazing video! I've been smalltime working on a medium-large sized game since 2015, and finally made a paper prototype of it, a little more than a year ago - a big map, pages of rules, hundreds of cards, and lots of tokens. I played it twice with some friends who really enjoyed it, and got a lot of good feedback. Being busy with other things, I haven't touched it since. Now however, I have around 4 months with nothing on my hands, and I would really like to take it somewhere. I have *no desire of making money* on it, I just want to get it "out there". I do have a few follow-up questions, if you can find the time!
- What qualifies as a prototype, and how could I potentially produce one?
- Should I look into Copyright? Is there any chance that a store or a publisher will steal my idea when I present it to them?
- How big of a disadvantage is it that my game is not in English? Should I work on translating it before making the prototype?
- Is it a disadvantage to focus on one big game, rather than several smaller and simpler games?
I'll also be happy to hear from anyone else with experience!
Fanrik Hi - thanks for your message and questions! I’ve tried to answer them in videos rather than writing a reply - first one was posted this evening: “Will someone steal my idea?” Hope they are helpful!
@@AdaminWales I just found them! I can't believe you would put so much energy into it! I'm incredibly grateful!
Thanks for your video!
Option 5: print on demand.
Could you explain how you can get a game into shops if you are self publishing?
Hi Rodney, I'm not sure that "print on demand" is really a viable business model. But I might be wrong. Perhaps someone has made some money this way. There are certainly "print on demand" websites available, and I know that many new designers use them. But I'm not aware of any big commercial successes coming through this route. Flashpoint Fire Rescue started on Gamecrafter but was then picked up by a publisher and licensed in the usual way - so "print on demand" does have the potential to showcase your design to publishers - although this is a very rare case. It is also useful for producing fairly professional looking prototypes.
I don't know much detail about distribution to shops etc. because I always license to publishers. But if I were planning to try this, I would start by going to many conventions and building relationships with other publishers/distributors. I know often the games from first-time publishers reach the shops through collaboration with other more established publishers. I'm sure you can make deals with individual shops, but I suspect the quantities wouldn't be adequate to make a sustainable business.
Adam's Boardgame Wales Thank you so much for getting back to me. I’ve just started using the Game Crafter myself. I think there’s an opportunity for people to at least make a profit from it ie more money than they spent as opposed to a viable business. Even if you make enough to fund the next one. I’ll let you know how it goes. Regardless I’m having fun with it!
Coolest congrates, how do i join the boardgame group cheers, i have a prototype ready as well and went throu a few play test as well. and if u use show your prototypes to publishers do we need to get copyright or patents protections first? and will publishers take your ideas after showing the mechanics and designs to them?
Hi - here’s my video about ideas, protection & intellectual property theft. Hope it helps!
czcams.com/video/oTbHvDb8DHg/video.html
I’m not sure which group you’re referring to - I’m not currently part of any gaming / game design groups.
Hey Adam, great video! I had a question about the advances you mentioned. Do those normally need to be paid back to the game company if they decide not to publish the game? From what I’ve heard about the music business, advances must be paid back to the label regardless, whether in profits or collecting from the band members. Does it work this way in the game industry?
Hi - I’ve never heard of a game publisher asking for an advance to be repaid. Every contract is different, so I guess it’s possible, but the standard approach is that the advance is non-refundable. Indeed, it is the main “consolation” when a publisher signs a game and never publishes it - which wastes a lot of time for designers. I have personally had contracts handed back to me months or years after they were signed, and I have never been required to repay any advance payments. The largest I’ve received was 2000 Euros for a game which was never actually published. It was a nice consolation when the publisher dropped the game.
Useful video! But I made a really complex board game, full of rules,dice,books,equipments,scenarios, creaures and spells exc...i mean, I'm pretty sure I got "the millionaire idea", but I dont know how to move after...... I need help!
How do they work out profit when selling on Amazon? For example that Exploding Kittens from USA are in UK , Australia, etc?
I’m afraid I don’t have any experience of selling on Amazon, so I don’t know. Sorry!
Now when I look at a game worth £70-80 and know maybe the designer might make only 1 or 2 pounds, I don’t feel like buying it.
It’s surprising when you first hear the figures! But after the retail store has a cut, and the distributor has a cut, there’s not all that much left! The publisher obviously takes the bulk - for the manufacturing costs. And then there’s the artists, graphic designers, developers, miniature sculptors etc, who all need to be paid too. The designer is a very important part of the team - but there are so many other factors.
Don’t forget £1 or £2 of a game which sells hundreds of thousands of copies is a very nice sum indeed. Of course, most games don’t achieve these numbers - but that’s what we’re all aiming for!
I am making a social deduction board game, it’s similar to mafia but every character has their own name and ability. But dose anyone have any suggestions of how to make it more different from mafia?
Josh Blake Hi Josh - first thing is to playtest it with as many people as possible! Here is a link to my video about play testing.
czcams.com/video/IgRv8mF7cPo/video.html
That will bring up loads of conversations about your game - what works; what doesn’t; what similar games are out there etc.
I would also play as many social deduction games as you can find - and try and find a gap i.e. something which hasn’t been done before. There are loads of great examples to try! Start with The Resistance for example, the the “One Night Ultimate” range of games. Mafia De Cuba is good. And Deception: Murder in Hong Kong. You need to find something which is a unique selling point for your game.
@@AdaminWales Wondering if playtesting your own new board game to specialist is a good idea or not? Because the ideas behind may get stolen by someone with better networks or better designers/promoters...etc
Alexandrebressand Hi Alexandre, it’s a frequent concern for new designers - but generally it’s not as big an issue as you’d imagine. I talk about it in the following video: czcams.com/video/oTbHvDb8DHg/video.html
I have altered a game which exists already, I think its so much more fun to play it may way, how can i start a buisiness from there?
Hi Petra. It’s a tricky way to start. If you’ve designed a game based on a classic (i.e. public domain) game, then you just need to work out how to market it. In this video I talk about how other people have done this:
czcams.com/video/15Zq8GNA2Ow/video.html
If you’ve adapted a more modern game, with a named designer or established publisher, then you have more of a problem. Just like you can’t reword a few chapters of a popular novel and re-release it as your own, you can’t really tweak somebody else’s work and sell your own boardgame based off of it.
If your idea is more of the latter (tweaking a game which is owned by someone) then I’d suggest… keep tweaking. Adapt it in all sorts of ways until it no longer resembles the original. There are many similar games out there, so there’s nothing wrong with a having a few basic similarities - but if people are going to accuse you of ripping off their idea, you’re going to have a hard time marketing your game (and potentially legal difficulties).
Hi! What do I do if I have a half-done boardgame which is based on a TV series, so it's copyrighted? I really love this game and I think it would have a future (so I don't really want to just leave it in the drawer...)
Thanks for the help!
In all honesty, there’s a very specific way that these things work - when they want a game for a specific intellectual property (TV or film) publishers approach designers they already know, or design in-house.
So it is almost impossible to do it the other way round (design for a TV series & then pitch to publishers). Of course nothing is totally impossible - but there is no standard route to make this work, and most publishers would not be interested in a game based on an existing property.
So your options would be:
1. Self-publish and obtain a license to use the intellectual property yourself. This would be extremely expensive in most cases, and financially setting yourself up for a big loss.
2. Re-theme the game to a generic setting, and pitch it to publishers. You could always mention “this game is about generic superheroes but it would fit very well with a Marvel theme…” just in case! You never know.
You certainly have to be adaptable in this business.
@@AdaminWales Thank you very much for your answer! I really appreciate it!
Well then I think, I can pretty much throw the idea in the trash, because there's really no way to re-theme the game. It's all about characters and ships from the Stargate franchise which is currently in possession of Amazon if I remember correctly...
It started as a short, small project, intended for friends and family-use only, but then I couldn't stop expanding it, and it grew very serious, a bit complex, but entirely awesome!
I hoped maybe I could share the reward of all that effort with the world and make something of it.
Now I'm not sure if it's worth finishing 😅
Thank you for your help anyway!😁
Question? Is it legal to create am add on/ mod for an existing commercial board game. Not using any of their art or logos... just referencing some of the locations / names and properties in the game. No logo or artwork use at all.
Just curious before I develop... if it is a 50/50 perhaps I will use an S-Corp to protect personal liability
I’m not a lawyer so I’m afraid the answer is that I don’t know. I suspect that it might be a breach of copyright since you are using their written word (just as you couldn’t write a short story about Harry Potter and use locations from that franchise). It may also be a breach of trademark if they’ve registered one. But I’m really no expert on this - so please do some research rather than following my advice! Good luck with it.
@@AdaminWales thanks, appreciate you taking your time to reply. I'll keep investigating.
Assuming a Board Game is Marketable & I wanted to use a popular franchise like Harry Potter to increase its appeal. What suggestions might you recommend for pursuing this route. Your opinion on the topic is much appreciated.
In general it’s not likely to happen. Most games with a popular license are commissioned by publishers directly: i.e. the publisher purchases the license to the franchise, then seeks out a designer to make a game for that license.
You could self publish, and purchase the license yourself, but that’s going to be very expensive - and almost certainly going to be unachievable with a license the size of Harry Potter.
I would suggest re-theming the game to give it a generic theme - “Wizard school” is a perfectly good theme - then seek publishers for the game. That way, if they do have access to the Harry Potter license they could potentially make it happen. But most companies don’t work with intellectual properties.
Your best chance would be if you directed your pitches towards companies who regularly make games based on film/TV properties. But those companies tend to be the ones who are hardest to get any response from. They often have their own internal processes, which are hard to infiltrate until you have a strong portfolio of published games under your belt.
I have been in the same boat! I’ve designed games based around popular properties (at the request of publishers) then when the game is rejected, I’ve been left to think: what do I do with it now? Re-theming is the easiest approach.
@@AdaminWales Your input is very appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my question.
Hello Adam do I need to get a patent for my game board design before marketing my prototype?? I’m in the USA.
Hi! I made a video about patents and protecting your idea. Hope it helps. czcams.com/video/oTbHvDb8DHg/video.html
Good advice! thank you! I am working on a children's board game. Currently working on the trade mark application. Did you complete your own trade mark application or hired someone?
Hi Stephanie, I have never worked with trademarks - and even if my games were trademarked that would be something a publisher would sort out rather than me. Here’s my video about protecting your intellectual property: czcams.com/video/oTbHvDb8DHg/video.html
I'm very much enjoying your videos Adam, but the audio always seems very low volume. I notice you didn't mention print-on-demand marketplaces like gamecrafter or drive-through cards, what are you thoughts on those services?
Thanks Alex - I'm going to try and increase the volume for the next video.
I have very limited experience of Gamecrafter. The games which I have seen produced in this way have looked pretty amateurish - like a good quality prototype. I'm not aware of anyone making significant waves in the industry (and hence significant income) through this route of publishing. But maybe I've missed it.
I think they're an excellent resource for producing prototypes though. I wish their were more such resources in the UK. Ivory Gamemaker is a new UK company attempting something similar to Gamecrafter - I've ordered some cards from them - waiting to see the results.
Yeah certainly the barrier to market is a lot lower which means the quality is often lower.
I did a bit of research and a handful of games have had decent sales (215 games with over 100 sales, 27 over 500 sales, 21 over 750, 13 over 1000) so it might be a way to help a hobby designer to generate enough revenue over time to fund going to a convention or buying art for a game if they intend to go to kickstarter. A few of the designers on gamecrafter have gone on to sign with a publisher or to kickstarter.
I'd not heard of Ivory Gamemaker I'll be interested to hear how good they are.
Thanks very much Adam . I’ve got an idea for a game but I need some help any advice ?
What is your other job?
Keindzjim I am a dentist but also trained as a professional actor, and I run my own training company for dentists. Adding game-design into the mix, I have a pretty diverse working week!
Skip to 6:03 ... you’re welcome
I'll forgive the clickbait title, since the obvious answer (despite your caveats) is "You don't." I'd be interested in knowing what top sellers have actually sold in the millions of units, besides maybe the obvious handful of titles.
Anyway, good video, and best wishes for the success of your newest creations!
P.S. The volume on this video seemed way low.
Apologies for the clickbait title - it never occurred to me that it could be seen that way! Not intentional! :) I've changed the title now to be more representative of the content. The reason for the original title "How do I make a million?" was because it's a common question I get asked: "How do I make a million from selling my game design?" or alternatively, "So, are you going to make millions from your games then?"
I've never worked out the volume settings on these videos - if you watch back through my old videos, I think the audio levels are all over the place! :D I've given up trying to make professional quality videos - spent a lot of time and money on mics and cameras and got nowhere!!! But feedback noted - I'll raise the levels a little next time.
jesusfack, I am desgining my own game and listening to this made me quite sad. I have my own plan for sharing the complete game, instead of printing use wood and use some of external sources, but along with corona, I cant travel anywhere to talk to publishers and other parties. I guess I will just hire some youtuber/influencer to promote my game, rather than rely on publisher that gives me 7% of the final price, fak that.
Yeah, 7% seems low (and that’s actually at the upper range of normal). It works out at about 3-4% of retail cost. If you have a genuine hit, it will still make you a lot of money, but most games don’t sell more than a few thousand copies so royalties are generally low.
That said, the profit margins from self-publication are usually very low too. Retailers rarely buy direct from a publisher - they buy from a distributor. So as a publisher you have to sell at a huge discount to a distributor, who takes their cut before selling to retailers. Once you take out production costs, this leaves little for the publisher.
The long and short of it is - whether you are self-publishing OR working on a royalty basis, you need huge sales to make a decent return. And this is difficult to achieve when there are thousands of games released each year. But if you are one of the rare few who manage to sell hundreds of thousands of copies, you can make a good amount of money. If self-publishing it will be a huge amount of work to make this happen. Good luck though whichever way you choose to go!
I love your videos, but my God man: speak into the microphone!
My phone on full volume pressed against my ear is the only way I can hear you
Thanks for the feedback. This is a video from 5 years ago. I’ve made a lot of changes to my audio set up over the last few years, but I still get comments about it from time to time, so there are clearly still issues.
I’d be interested to know if you’re having the same issue with my most recent video. Let me know if it’s improved. czcams.com/video/0ZQXPN-yzPc/video.html
Sounds fine to me. No volume problem at all.