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10-1: A Decade of Game Design Wisdom
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- Board game designer Adam Porter continues his epic journey through 10 years of lessons he's learned about design and the board game industry.
0:00 Introduction
0:56 You define success for yourself
2:33 Don’t make the game which you want to play
4:37 Make Sell Sheets
6:02 Be willing to change theme
7:18 Publishers depend on partners and distributors
9:19 If your game is rejected by everyone, don’t self publish
10:51 Some games are hard to sell
15:03 Never search the discard pile
16:36 Do not pay for placeholder art
19:24 Accessibility trumps just about everything else
This is the best series on game design I've ever seen. Excellent job!
Thanks Tony - that’s very kind! Glad you enjoyed it.
Amen on the search the discard pile section. It's terrible!
I'll say this about sports board games, the closer they get to simulation, the harder they are to represent in a board game, I learned this with my first design that I ever attempted. I tried to make a baseball franchise simulator. I didn't even finish making the first prototype before I realized it was a doomed idea. The whole concept of a sports simulator has already been mastered by video games anyway. Anyways, it's been an absolute pleasure to watch this series. I really learned a lot.
Great! Thanks for stopping by to leave a comment. Glad you enjoyed it.
A painful lesson, one which you mentioned in an earlier one of these videos, was simplifying. I had this game idea I thought was awesome but I couldn't find the fun in it. It had a really unique layout and some fun mechanisms but there was no thrill. I ended up adding a ton of stuff to try and make the game deeper and more strategic so it would be more interesting. Ultimately, I ended up taking the unique idea and the handful of mechanisms I liked and cutting EVERYTHING else, including the theme. I replaced them with an enemy AI that pursued the players as they played and it made the game much more exciting. Definitely don't add complexity to your game to fix issues - you'll just make something really overly complex and inaccessible.
Stuff I cut included: base building/repairing, several resources to manage, all but one player token (players used to have 3 different type of units all with different abilities and movement and they could have a dozen on board at any given time, etc.), 2 types of cards, player v player combat (players were competing for points but didn't have to defeat each other so this PvP aspect felt really bad for players who were behind), and all 5 different ways to score points - players work together to beat the AI and that's it, and I'm sure I'm missing something.
Just finished watching the series. The abundance of wisdom and experience in these videos is such a generous offer to designers old and new. Bravo Adam, what a fantastic resource.
I absolutely loved this whole series Adam! I have consumed A LOT of board game design content and this is such a standout list.
Top 5 I agree most strongly on:
- 97. You are not an aspiring game designer
- 83. The first play is everything
- 75. Watching play testers is more valuable than verbal or written feedback
- 55. Think about cost of components now
- 1. Accessibility trumps just about everything else
Top 5 I might disagree on:
- 69. Work on many games
- 43. Don’t design late at night
- 36. Write your rules early
- 21. Contacts for publishers are easy to find
- 12. Your first design probably should not be published
Top 5 I found really insightful:
- 74. Your game doesn’t just belong to you
- 65. Game design is addictive
- 62. Enthusiasm from a publisher is the tie-breaker
- 51. Interaction is wonderful. Feedback is equally important.
- 22. A pitch is a meeting of equals
Also, a random thought on this video... Sports ARE abstract games! 🤯
Thanks for this! Really good to know which of the different ideas connect with other designers! :)
@@AdaminWales maybe the ones I disagree with are really just the ones that make me feel most guilty!
On the publisher contacts one, I am researching this currently and find the whole process a bit difficult (loved your tip on going through the Essen list on bgg). Finding it hard since so many publishers re-publish other publisher's games, so it can be hard to distinguish a publisher's "line". I'm yet to find a good source of info about design contests or online pitch events for European publishers (e.g. the upcoming Pegasus Spiele event). I'm based in Australia so traveling is not so easy. Without pre-existing contacts, I am dreading going through generic forms and generic contact emails.
@@leipergames If you look up a game's page on BGG, the FIRST publisher listed is the one which originated the game. Other publishers in the list are usually international partners.
I haven't ever entered into design contests or pitch events (well, I've tried both of these things exactly once... and found them unsatisfying) so my approach is always direct to publisher. I can appreciate that it is difficult to find details of these other avenues online.
Being based in Australia will make things more difficult, for sure. Have you watched any of Matthew Dunstan's streams (he posts them on CZcams too). He talks a lot about his recent move from UK to Australia (with a brief stint in Prague) and how that has changed his approach.
@@AdaminWales thanks again! Yes, Matthew's streams are great, we are lucky to have him back in Australia :)
Another mammoth effort Adam and greatly appreciated. I eagerly looked forward to each new video.
The quality of your work, your salient advice, and willingness to share your experiences and expertise is absolutely top shelf.
Thanks Craig. Much appreciated.
Thanks for this video series! It’s particularly heartening to hear affirmation I can define success for myself. As a new game designer, it can be daunting to feel like the finish line has to be publication, especially when spending time on first designs that probably will eventually be scrapped.
Absolutely! Publishing is just one avenue to take. My big struggle is that I need validation by publishers. That’s one of the main reasons I don’t self-publish. I want an expert to tell me that my game is good enough. But that’s my issue!! 😂 I’ve made some lovely games which will never be published. I need to give them some value (in my own head). Perhaps I should make a deluxe printed prototype so they don’t look out of place on my shelves…
Sorry, I’ve gone off on my own tangent! You should feel proud of designing anything that works (and even things that only partially work). It’s still substantially more than 99% of designers achieve.
@@AdaminWales you most definitely need to make a deluxe printed prototype for all those games that didn't get published. that is for sure what I'm doing with mine (with Launch Tabletop, of course).
Thank you for the fantastic series! It’s been a fun ride- causing feelings of depression (why bother being a game designer) to joy (the world needs my great games!) - looking forward to more of your videos which ask and answer the questions about game development and design! Merry Christmas -Happy Holidays!
Oh no! I don’t want to depress anyone!! 😂 Being a designer is great! Do it!
Thank you very much for all these videos you do! I get a lot of inspirations from your experiences! Wish you all the best in 2024!
Thanks for watching and commenting! Best wishes for 2024 to you too.
@@AdaminWales oh and thanks for a short stop and chat during this year's Essen Spiel'23 and of course a selfie with you 🤳🎉
@@tadaskastanauskas2718 I took quite a few selfies with viewers this year and it really made Essen memorable! So thanks for saying Hi and introducing yourself. Hope to see you again next year.
Thanks Adam for your wonderful sharing!
You’re welcome, thanks for watching :)
Greetings from Malaysia! You have quite a few Malaysian game designers who have watched this series and said it was excellent and highly recommended for all game designers. Thanks again 🙏
Great advice and conclusion to this 100 list. Game design and success fluctuates a lot! From desires and wants… to conquering inner fears. If only people had a crystal ball to know how or what to do when.
“Desires, wants, inner fears” just about sums it up! So much of this stuff is about psychology :) Thanks for watching.
Loved this series. Really great insights across the board
I understand the point you're making in saying don't design games you want to play. You're point is well taken. I think the counterpoint to that is the fact that I'm going to spend a significant chunk of my time to earn hundreds or maybe thousands of dollars if I'm lucky. With the payout so small, why spend time creating something I wouldn't even want to play? I design games as a fun hobby. If I had to design games I didn't want to play, I think it would be turning into a second job. And it would be a job earning less than minimum wage.
I forgot to add - great video series Adam, I really enjoyed it.
Thanks Eric! I think the goal is to create something which other people love AND you love. If either part of that equation is missing, you’re unlikely to achieve much commercial success. Of course, if you’re designing for fun, the audience doesn’t matter so much.
Finalmente, terminé de ver los 10 videos. Qué buenas lecciones he aprendido. Trataré de aplicarlas con mis estudiantes cuando diseñemos juegos de mesas este año.
¡Gracias, Adam!
De nada :) Feliz navidad!
Great series, with some really interesting discussion. Thanks for doing this. And I do love that the accessibility one came out as the last one - that's really good advice to always keep close to your heart.
Thanks for watching Rob. Happy Christmas.
I think for something like 7 Wonders, searching through the discard pile (which Halikarnassos allows you to do) isn't too bad because most cards will get played in front of the players, and few cards actually get discarded. Anything where most cards get discarded, I completely agree that it's not a good idea.
Hmmm. 🤔 Of course, it’s not a blanket rule - and the fewer cards involved, the less of a problem it creates. I would generally try to resist it in my designs. But you’re right, if handled carefully anything can be a good mechanism.
I often forget to like your videos. Big thumbs up for all your content.
Thank you - much appreciated !
Exelent series Adam. Simple but very informative.
Thanks. Glad you found it helpful.
Great series, Adam. I'll add that we got universal publisher feedback this year saying drawing games are considered an extremely tough sell for mass market.
I’m not surprised. Since my game Doodle Rush was released (2017) I’ve seen numerous drawing games on sale - and they’re becoming hard to distinguish. That said, Doodle Rush sold well. So people are buying them.
Thanks Adam! Great series 👍 I don’t design games, just play them but this whole series has been so interesting.
Ah, that’s good to know - glad it’s interesting even if you’re not a designer :)
This was a fantastic series of videos. I really enjoyed it and learned a lot. I don't necessarily agree with "don't make the game that you want to play". I find it very difficult to work on a game that I would not play. I'm not going to make a dexterity game if I hate dexterity games, even if there is a huge market for them. It's difficult enough to stay motivated and excited about a project. Anyway, thanks for sharing your wisdom and experience with us.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it :)
When I say, “Don’t make the game that you want to play” I don’t mean “Make a game you wouldn’t want to play”.
I have never worked on a game that I wouldn’t want to play. But I have shelved projects which I would like to play, because I couldn’t identify a wider market.
So the decision is something like this:
1. Would I want to play this game: If no, don’t make it.
2. Is there a sizeable market for this game. If no, don’t make it.
If you can identify a market for the game AND you’d enjoy playing it yourself, you might have a winning formula.
And of course, this is only worth considering if you are looking for commercial success. If you’re happy to design a game with no intention of selling it, DEFINITELY make the game you want to play.
Thank you for all the lessons! These meant a lot to me, I've learnt so many things about the industry.
I’m glad it was helpful for you :)
Thanks for this series Adam it’s been very helpful! Especially as you clearly have tons of experience with the business and publishing side which hopefully is something I’d like to move towards in future.
With regard to rule number 3 about searching the discard pile, in my experience this is still a fun mechanic to include it just needs to be limited to searching the top 3 or 4 cards to avoid that dreaded analysis paralysis for players. Being able to bring old cards back into the game is cool.
Using another player’s ability is more tricky, I have a card like this in one of my games which I think is very fun as it adds some interaction in what is otherwise a mostly solitaire engine building experience. However I’ve definitely found that card does cause slowdown in playtests. Perhaps a limitation of only allowing players to use the abilities of the player to their left could be better for those types of cards.
Yes, I agree that limiting it to the top 3 or 4 cards will help - it depends on how much information is on those cards, and how familiar the cards are to all players. Deciding between 3-4 cards (if they have loads of information on them) could still take a while. For me, it's one of those mechanisms which "sounds" fun. But in practice, is only fun for the player whose turn it is - to the detriment of other players' enjoyment.
Thanks for sharing your list. I like how you made it random in clumps
Thanks! Yeah, I think that worked well. I was concerned about randomising it - because it ceases to be a “Top 100 list” at that point. But ranking the tips seems meaningless, and I enjoyed the unpredictability of the order in which the tips would emerge. It also led to interesting pairings of tips which highlighted contradictions in my own thinking. The whole process was a good exercise in reflection for me.
Wow, Incredible colection of wisdom in a superb 100 pills bottle 👏
Indeed, some taste better than others but all good for the designer's health. 🙂
thank you for this series, Adam. it's really valuable. I hope you have a great Xmas and happy New Year.
Happy Xmas to you too. Thanks for watching and commenting on my videos this year!
I'll just point out that by making games (or any other form of art) others want to play is a form of chasing social fads and social fads constantly change and they change randomly. It should really be worded as 'make games you think others want to play right now'. However, doing so can be a disaster, because whatever fad is being chased could change overnight and make the product outdated. The same thing happens with books and music. A great number of the creators that people look up to now were literally nobodies while they lived, and in many cases, they were people that were made fun of by others during their time. The cost of that is they never made anything from their work while alive. An example of this is that people read Poe and look up to him, but nobody still reads or cares about Cooper's Leatherstocking Tales, which was a massive hit in its day.
15:00 Adam, can you make a video with just tips/advice regarding mechanics do's and don't's? Really appreciated this tip!
I’m not sure I have enough “don’ts” for a video! But I did make my Top 100 favourite mechanisms 2 years ago - and in each video I also mentioned 1 mechanism that I don’t like.
Top 100 Mechanisms in Board Games: 100-91
czcams.com/video/TIXdscEK6Sk/video.html
In my humble opinion while #2 might work for an established designer, I would never give such an advice to a new designer. It takes a lot of motivation and persistence to see your first game through and working on something you yourself aren't particularly excited by is going to make it really really hard. Just my 2 cents.
I wouldn’t suggest to a designer that they work on something that they aren’t excited by. I have never pursued such a project. My advice is to work on a project which you are excited by AND other people want to play. I think too many designers focus on their own preferences and don’t consider the audience at all.
But you’re right, this is primarily advice for designers pursuing commercial success - not necessary for a new designer experimenting with their craft. I could have articulated that better.
That was amazing Adam. Loved the videos.
You are sure you don't have 10 more lessons to share? ^^
The advice to ask the playtesters what they whished they could do more in the game was great for example
Haha. Filming 100 was tough going!! I don’t want to do more!!! 🤣
I think it's important to recognise that games and art aren't interesting for the ways they are like reality, but rather for the ways they aren't. I think that might be a reason some games like the sport games aren't as succesful, if they mimick something too closely while being the inferior passtime. Compounding niches isn't always a great idea regardless.
I enjoyed this series and I can't think of anything in particular I didn't agree with. On one hand I don't think I learned much if anything but it will be a good resource for people who haven't been exposed to the sentiments shared.
I do wonder if the word game of yours would be one that would be easily played by folk who own say bananagrams or whatnot. If a game could be played by most who would be in the target market but doesn't require anything they don't already have then maybe that's why it's not worth the resource expenditure. Especially since the status quo of the word game market means the overwhelming majority of people who play word games are willing to put up with little to no theme.
I think the print and play market is growing and is quite interesting. If people have games that wouldn't make as much sense to ship in the usual ways, it could still be worthwhile to share it with the world. And the margins are better, as there aren't really any expenses involved. If you sell a print and play file for a few quid, you make a few quid. No logistics or manufacturing costs, only labour and profit margin.
Thanks for the detailed feedback. All useful thoughts.
@15:35 Searching the discard pile works in a trading card game, to help a player recover a card they might need for their strategy. Don't know how it would work in another type of game.
Yes, that’s a fair point. It’s fine in TCGs because you search your OWN discard pile - and you know your own cards well. I would imagine that it still slows the game down considerably when players are still learning the cards though.
Sport Games used to sell well; Cadaco made some successful ones till the 80's. They depended on licensing the names & likenesses of sports stars, & by the 90's that was too expensive.
Yes, it’s strange - and I do wonder if it has a lot to do with groupthink. I pitched a space-themed Euro game to publishers back in 2014 and was repeatedly told that space games don’t sell in the European market. Terraforming Mars proved them all wrong and I don’t think anybody would avoid them now.
Very nice insight, thank you Adam! I would have a question, maybe you can answer. Have you had or heard of a case when someone already bought artworks for their game and then made a deal with a publisher to get a better contract offer etc if the publisher can and want to make fully use the artworks? Would publishes be open minded about request like that at all? In the end it could reduce work, time and money needed for the publisher to bring the product onto the market if most of the artwork are already professionaly done or is this a wrong conclusion?
Anything is possible! But it is an unlikely scenario. Almost always, publishers want to select their own artist for a game to make it fit into their catalogue.
I have known a designer who commissioned his own art and that art was used when the publisher licensed the game from him. But that was the only time I have heard of this happening. The games were very simple and cheap to produce, and the commissioned artwork was generic but of a high quality. I suspect that the publisher went for the cheapest possible route - low component cost, art in place, quick and easy. The games achieved very little commercial success. I don't know if the designer received a higher fee because the publisher didn't have to pay for art, or not. I would be surprised if a publisher paid the full amount that was spent on the original artist.
It is widely recommended that designers do not commission art. The standard approach is for the publishers to do that. Of course, if you self-publish your games, you can do both.
Another exception is if your game is based around the art: MicroMacro, Dixit, Mysterium etc. In those cases, the art IS the game. So it kind of comes as a package. Although, even for Mysterium, the artwork was changed for later editions.
If you have ALREADY commissioned the art, there is nothing stopping you from pitching the game to publishers - you probably have a really nice looking prototype which will help to catch attention, and might even help you to get a publishing deal (most likely with new art). But you probably have to consider the money spent as being lost. I doubt you will recoup it.
Thank you so much for the long answer, i really appreciate the effort! And yes i already did commissioned almost all the artwork needed for the boardgame project because my own success is met when i have the product in "prototyp" quality ready to play and enjoy with friends, exactly the way i envisioned it. But that aside i also hope that i could make it to a public release by publishers and get a better contract by offering the already done art. In the end i also accept to have lost a great amount of euros but i followed a little dream of mine, so its ok :) Thank you again for the nice reply! Whenever iam ready to get the game to a publisher i will tell you how it went.
Would love to see your spelling game. Are you able to share, or is it available as PnP anywhere?
No :) Still clinging on to the vague hope that on day I’ll find the right publisher for it!
Hi Adam, Do you still do meet-ups in Cardiff, I live in Swansea and would love to play-test some games that others have designed and possibly at a later date share 1 or 2 I have designed. I enjoy your videos and look forward to hearing back from you. A.T.B. Gareth
Hi, yes, we meet on the first Thursday of every month. I’ll need to check if it’s happening next week or not. If you join the Playtest Cardiff Game Designers Meetup group on Facebook that’s where we share all our events.
@@AdaminWales I will try to find it now. Thank you for the fast response.
9. I WILL make the game I want to play. Screw mankind.
This advice seems like How To Make A Few Dollars /Pounds.
Almost all games are forgettable, including the big sellers. Most of my collection I could lose or have stolen, and I wouldn't miss them.
My game is my artistic child. If I sell one copy, great. If not, oh well, screw em all, the sods.
Please go ahead. If you want to make art, of course I welcome that.
My approach is to think of my future players and design something they’ll find useful / enjoyable - that doesn’t seem wrong to me. And if I make some money creating something people find useful, that seems a completely ethical way to make a living.
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