GAUGE THE ISSUE: Murder On The Orient Express - 1974 - 2001 - 2010
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
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Don't forget the 2006 PC game adaptation as well.
Bought the 1974 film on DVD and saw the David Suchet version on Netflix. Looking forward to watch the 2017 version.
Long comment incoming (but then, you knew that the minute you saw my username, admit it Chris):
I absolutely adore the 1974 Murder on the Orient Express, to the point that is ranks firmly as my favorite film of all time. And I'm sorry, but what's all this talk of it looking "cheap" or that the production values are merely "pretty good"? Considering the budget, I think they're phenominal, especially given that they used a real SNCF Class 230G steam engine that wasn't in the best nick and had to build replicas of the CIWL coaches as they couldn't get their hands on the real ones. Sources vary, but I believe they even built said coaches so that once external shooting was finished they shipped them back to England to put them on soundstages, where they removed the outer walls to shoot interior shots. This allowed them to get running shots, such as in the restaurant car, by filming the passing scenery on location, and then setting up multiple projectors set a few frames back from one another to project the footage out of the windows, creating an excellent, if not perfect illusion. When reverse shots were needed, they simply picked up the whole car, flipped it around, took off the other wall, and filmed the other side.
There's also a feeling throughout the '74 film that I feel embodies exactly what this story is all about, what makes this film so great, and what I sadly think Branagh has missed before I've even seen his film. The '74 Murder is a suspenseful drama film in the style of classic golden age Hollywood films. Everything is exaggerated and over-the-top in a way that would never be seen again after that film, from the costume design that although gorgeous at one point had Lauren Bacall worrying that the camera wouldn't see her around her hat, to the sheer star power, bringing together every big name of stage and screen of the time in a single film. These things all combine together to exude this sense of opulence, of grandeur, which perfectly mirrors the Orient Express itself, which was once the most extravagant, the most prestigious, and of course the fastest way to cross Europe. It worries me that Shakespearean juggernaut Kenneth Branagh looked at this depiction of the golden age of rail travel through the lens of the golden age of film, and appears to have made it into just another bog standard action/suspense movie.
PS: "...unglamorous locations in Paris and the French Alps..." 1. I have to disagree, as I think the landscape running shots look fantastic, and 2. in a way that's kind of the point as they're not supposed to be Paris or the French Alps; the story takes place with the Orient Express on its return journey, so the Paris goods shed is supposed to stand in for Istanbul's Sirkeci Station, and the French Alps are supposed to be Turkey and Yugoslavia.
Also, dear gods yes, the music is amazing. Seriously, I nearly orgasm every time I hear that departure waltz.
PPS: Are you familiar with the CZcams series Lost in Adaptation, where host The Dom compares film adaptations to their book originals? I and several other people have been begging him to do an episode on Murder on the Orient Express, perhaps even one of his special Dom-Oscar episodes where he compares multiple adaptations to see which did it better. All of these versions are up for consideration, along with the new 2017 version and, weirdly, possibly even the 2015 Japanese drama version.
Yes, you heard right. There's a version of Murder on the Orient Express made by and set in Japan. And the weirdest part of all... It's actually pretty good, and, for the first half at least, remarkably faithful to the book and clearly inspired by the '74 film.
PPSS: The '74 film may be responsible for saving SNCF 230G 353 from scrap and for most recently seeing a project undertaken to restore her to operational condition. And it's the last film adaptation that Agatha Christie got to see before her passing, and supposedly the only one she wholeheartedly approved of.
Awesome comment, have you heard of the 1955 German adaptation?
Thanks for talking about this Film Cris, I've got the German Version from the 1970s one on DVD.
And before my Grandma gave me that Film, I had no Idea what the Hell that was.
And also, A Class 47 with Pullman's!?
I cant belive they did this.
2001 Murder on the Orient Express:
Chris, did you make up an entirely new "Come the fuck on" face just for that reaction to the laptop bit? Because that was hilarious.
Okay, I admit I haven't seen the 2001 version, but... what? Poirot has a love interest? What? Pumpkin, what?! How the... Who that... WHAT?!?!
Also, I kind of get the reduction in the number of suspects as this was a made-for-TV movie, but at the same time by reducing the number from 12 to 8 they lost a huge amount of the symbolism that was so key to the story.
And yeah, totally agreed on Branagh. One of the long list of hang-ups I have with the 2017 version before I've even seen it; Branagh looks nothing like Poirot, he is Branagh with a funny mustache. To bring up the 2015 Japanese version again (and to remind you and anyone foolish enough to read these rants that that exists), even the freaking Japanese managed to get their Poirot's look right!
The 1974 “Murder on the Orient Express” is THE definitive cinematic version of this Christie story. The cast is incredible, the costume and production design superb, the music fabulous, and in my opinion, Albert Finney was a better and more exciting Poirot than Suchet, especially in the classic gathering of the suspects and crime reconstruction denouement!
Still think my favourite is the first one (was on tv when I was young!)
“Instead of being set in Europe, it was obvious that it was shot in the UK on a very tight budget.”
Looks like someone voted ‘leave’.
I'm reading the novel that the films are based on.
Dame Agatha Christie herself attended the 1974 premier of Murder on the Orient Express.
Surely, the 2010 David Suchet's rendition of Hercule Poirot is the best of the lot.
Yes for Poirot, but sadly not for his Murder on Orient Express. I was so looking forward to see it, but it simply wasn't good. Neither was good the Branagh version. So, so far, only Finney's version is actually good.
Yes he is the best and I loved him in the 2010 version because we see a darker side of him that makes the film very engaging and the ending was so powerful and emotional to watch.
Your review was spot on. Great work and analysis! Also, entertaining! Thank you from a Murder on the Orient Express fan.
To appreciate the end of the Suchet version of Orient Express we have to consider the opening of the movie/book where Poirot is party to the conclusion of another unrelated investigation where he profoundly questions whether the punishment always fits the crime. By the end of the Suchet movie a tortured Poirot concludes that it does not. For him, this is a devastatingly spiritual revelation. That concluding plot point is a huge contribution to the development of the overall Poirot character. But it would only resonate for true Christie/Poirot fans.
Having said that I love the 1974 version by Finney, too. They're both exceptional. Finney's version is entertaining. Suchet's version is revealing.
I hope this means a return to the train now starring! Great vid Chris, interesting and informative
i actually have a comic book about the "murder on the orient express". very good book/comic. very well done as always chris keep it up lad :D
Only just caught up with this GTI, Chris, and so pleased you mention Richard Rodney Bennet's fabulous music! 🙂 🙂
Acctuly the orient express as pulled by form the company railway called..
Something else is:
1974 Snowdrift Blocks train: Train Still on track
2001 Landslide Blocks train: Train still on track
2010 Snowdrift Blocks train: Locomotive Buried but still on track
2017 Snowdrift Blocks train: Locomotive Derailed And Buried
I love Class 47's
Alec Guinness: “77 films 2 academy awards yet all they remember is that damned space wizard…”
the 1974 railway shots are magical :) like you say the music perfectly fits the departure scene :) I think the use of 73050 as a foreign 1930s loco kind of works as they have all the external pipework more befitting to a foreign loco of the 1930s although not correct a near substitute. Be interested to know your opinion on the two versions of the classic "The Lady Vanishes" as the rail scenes in the 1979 version are superb but the acting and feel of the 1938 version are far superior (except for possibly Arthur Lowe and Ian Carmichael's cameo as Charters and Caldicott but even then they're not as good as Basil Rathbone and Naughton Wayne were in the original!)
Aah, ze little grey cells of yours, become the voice of reason once again, no? :P
To add my penny's worth... Hmm... Putting the main points aside, I'd be hard pressed to choose between Finney and Suchet, as to who played Poirot best. While I commend Finney's fine and timeless effort in the 1974 version, I (like some people, I would suspect) pretty much grew up with Suchet's very own, and near flawless interpretation of the Belgian detective. But at the end of the day, it's pretty much an open ended matter, and one case not likely to be resolved anytime soon (if you'll excuse the pun)!
We can only hope that the forthcoming 2017 adaptation may not be as bad as some people may already be thinking; I'm not sure if Kenneth Brannagh may be able to deliver the goods as Poirot, but we shall see...
Another superb edition of GTI; thumbs up once again!
9:23 I cannot agree with your interpretation here. It was always crystal to me the passengers DID commit murder and in the (easily best so far) Suchet version Poirot's choice is likewise crystal.
Yes he let them go because he knew that was the moral thing to do but walked away clutching his rosary 📿 because he wasn’t sure it was right so he was begging God for forgiveness because he felt like he betrayed his faith and his own principles. That’s what makes it such a powerful ending but some people don’t get that. They like the 1974 version better because of the more pleasant ending where everyone cracks open a bottle of champagne 🍾 but that’s just not realistic considering they’ve committed a murder 🤦🏼♀️ just my opinion though 😉
The problem the later ITV feature length TV program, is the British TV convention that crime cannot be seen to pay, so their hero cannot be seen to look the other way as a gang of vigilantes murder somebody, no matter how hateful they are.
Nice One Chris maybe do a review on Poirot the series with other locomotives that featured in the film and Marple as well
Nice job Chris!
The 1974 version was a classic but the one I love the most is the 2010 version because it’s so engaging and the ending is so emotionally powerful. It’s clear Poirot let them go which is why he looked so conflicted at the end so I don’t know why you think it’s debatable what decision he made.
Chris Eden-Green I have just watched the Finney film and I realised I have seen that too. It was such a long time ago but in time I knew it was familiar. Anyway, my point is: I think Finney's Poirot is pretty good, but I find him too despicable both in manners and in his interrogation methods and his body language to like him. I am not quite sure Agatha Christie would have had him to be so horrible. He was not a nice fellow, I did read all of Christie's novels including this one and even read them twice in Hungarian and in English. Yet, I have not find him to be like this. He was well, definitely not too likeable, but his being weird and unkind struck me different from what Finney made of it. Still, he is a good actor and he did what he did with the character and he delivered his speech heightening suspense, so the drama was a drama.
I agree with sirrliv that the 2017 version kind of degraded it to a sort of half-action film and that was definitely wrong, just like Brannagh was totally miscast for the role. On the good side whilst the first hour was boring except for the visuals, whether they were CGI or not I liked them, the second hour was good it even made me cry. But the film could only be called a detective film crossed with an action movie but not the famous Murder on the Orient Express. If I watch it to see like a story it is quite okay. I love Johnny Depp but he was so old and ugly that it kind of took me off the act.
I have never liked Ingrid Bergman, but here she showed her talent in the Sydney Lumet version, I was amazed. Lauren Bacall was great and I have always liked Michael York and all the grand stars I enjoyed, and yet, I can say with conviction that personally it was the David Suchet-Poirot version the other 1974 film that I loved the most and I have found by far the best. There was balance there. I do agree though, that acting was superb in the Lumet version and all the stars did well, but like is very subjective as taste is, so I find the other one better.
The big fat Poirot with a clumsy, big but normal looking mustache and the love interest I did not deem good enough event to start watching.
300th like!
Not much to argue with here. The 1974 film is an absolute belter. However I'm also a big fan of David Suchet as Poirot and I actually thought he pulled off *that* ending very well. Also, don't the NVR have actual Wagons Lits coaches and continental locos that they could have used? I feel that they could have made it look more realistic without blowing the budget.
I have never seen that "modern-day interpretation" with the British Pullman, or even knew it existed before watching this, and frankly I never want to.
6:49 Who is that Actor??
I am pretty sure that I know him from one of our German Commedy Shows.
You're right for thinking he's German. It's Fritz Wepper as Monsieur (Wolfgang) Bouc
I know its not train related but I would really like your opinion on the music for the 2017 version as my uncle is one of the composers
Well done Chris, I like your vdeo very much and agree completely with it. But you neglected to emntion one detail in the 2010 Version, that was completely changed. In the book and the 1974 movie the doctor (Constantine) is a neutral observer, who assists Poirot in his work. The 2010 version includes him among the 12 murderers, whereby another character (Hartman) is excluded from the cast.
Also I'd like to add, that Poirot 1974 is much less conflicted with the ending than his counterpart in 2010. Finneys Character leaves it to his Friend (Bianchi) to decide which version to tell the police, whereby Suchet's Poirot cannot overcome his feelings for justice so easily. Only a long meditation he deiceds to tell the police the simple version of events. You can notice it, because he walks away deeply strained and praying for his sins.
Oh, and his religious side is also never shown in the other versions of the film.
Yeah, can’t think of anything train movies that have anything to do with Halloween.
Make one up about a ghost 👻 train 🚂 then 😂🎃😏
He aboarded my train car with a lot of loud noise talking to himself. He aboarded using the door behind me. We were the only two left on the car. So, I repositioned myself so I could see. I aboarded from the stop before Suitland.
What?
Albert Finney chewed the scenery like no other but that's really who Poirot was as a character. Eccentric and over the top and a person who's mannerisms made onlookers titter.
Thank you for this film Need to get 1974 Film, 2001 Movie look like at too ,2010 Is Great movie. David Suchet one You need to go and look at other Films to work what he thinking.
Happy Halloween
What steam engine(s) pulled the Orient Express?
The Standard 5 was listed, but the other engine was a european 4-6-0 Numbered 17.D.116. the other locomotive has been listed in the new 2017 review.
This link will help you identify the engines from the three movies (excluding the 2001 version) used to pull the Orient Express: drawing425.deviantart.com/art/Murder-on-the-Orient-Express-Locomotive-Sprites-702364107
The real one?
I'm quite sure my producer has got this wrong... But I'm on a train to Leyton with a bunch of football fans.
This, is the Orient Express!
And I'm not taking any credit for that one.
They asked Quayle for the 1974 film too. A huge hulking Poirot....might not have been too bad! (I like Anthony Quayle.)
The 2001 was abysmal and the actor playing Poirot was so miscast just like that McEwan witch playing Miss Marple.
The movie adaptations do not closely the book. They take a lot of “creative license”. I enjoyed Albert Finney. David Suchet did a tolerable job. Fortunately I didn’t watch the so-called modern adaptation. However I did watch Kenneth Branagh’s failure. It was horrid, stupid, comical, and nauseating. The book is a lot less melodramatic.
Who is colonel nickashin
OLALA
One thing I did like in the 1974 version more is the use of actual compagnie international des wagons-lits coaches, however the consist is inaccurate.. but for a CIWL lover like me it does satisfy more than the british pullman coaches of the 2001 version or the Nene Valleys' K1A and M1 coaches.. which on it's own was an odd choice for the museum to choose.. but that is besides the point, the 2017 train is rubish as well so I guess it is unfair to judge. since the 2001 version just is.. ugh.. I guess I will post my opinion on the 1974 and 2010 version. I like it that the 1974 took it's time, this might be to long drawn out for some people but since it is meant to be a who done it I think it is best to have it two hours long the least. The 2010 version was rushed it felt, hardly was able to handle in the information and to learn the characters (as in fully remember who was who again, in which case I must say an all star cast surely helped the 1974 version) David Suchet is in a sense a better actor for poirot I agree, however not in the murder on the orient express adaptation.. I liked him better in the other tv movies. Though this is probably because of the directing and the way the movie got portrayed. I guess I will adore the 1974 version the most, it not only set my love for the CIWL carriages but for the story in general. I hope one day to have the full consist of that film in H0 (for those curious it is in total: PO/SNCF 230G 353 - CIWL Three doors Fourgon - CIWL Restaurant car type Breda - CIWL Sleepingcar Type LX - CIWL Pullman type cote d'azur (non kitchen version)
runawayfreak - I’ve been after the 1974 consist in HO as well! Just the right length to display on a shelf.
Atheist Orphan I just happend to have found LS pullman 4163 on ebay. This year LS will bring out breda restaurants. The the only wait is the bagage car and lx. But LS has planned those too. Just the engine is damn hard to find.. no impossible. Only a few 230G's have been made and they are over 1500 (not counting the wrong roco ones)
£7 million are you kidding me £7 million is a lot of money
Not for a movie.
Chris Eden-Green I disagree. It is perfectly clear in the Suchet-Poirot what his decision was, I do not see why you should feel like hanging in the air. It was obvious and played out.
You should do an episode on the dispute between trains from the UK and the US.
74>>>2001>2010( only bc Suchets Poirots is written as choleric psychopath😂)
This makes no sense,.he doest gave a French accent. The 1974 version is much better, but not better than 1978s, DEATH ON THE NILE. Excellent cast. Believable characters, and filmed on location. The thing movies are missing these days.
2010 Murder on the Orient Express:
This is what I'd call the middle ground between the '74 and the '01 versions; better than the latter, but nowhere near as good as the former.
Personally, what put me off of the '10 version immediately was the greater religious subtext slipped in throughout. Admittedly, I'm no Christie scholar, nor have I seen every single episode of the Poirot TV series (yet), but I have read the book and seen other adaptations and I can say with confidence that this new religious bent does not fit Poirot at all. And frankly, although I'm not normally bothered by such things, as an atheist I found the blatancy of some of the religious symbolism in this version distinctly off-putting.
Also, while I've certainly seen worse, I kind of have to disagree about the quality of the practical effects. Some of them were great, if over-the-top; seriously, at what speed would the train have had to be going, and how soft would that snow have to have been for the engine to get buried like that? This isn't "Thomas, Terrence, and the Snow". Although, it does rather nicely replicate photos of the real Orient Express getting snowbound in 1929, an event that partly inspired this story in the first place. The interior shots though, I feel, lack much of any sense of the claustrophobic interior of a train carriage that was so central to the story, and likewise lack the elegance and attention to detail that exemplify the Orient Express, though I will concede that this may be me unfairly comparing this to the '74 film again.
Finally, while I will agree that David Suchet does make an excellent Poirot overall in the TV series, in this special he seems... off. He seems more world-weary than I've ever seen the character before, and I've already mentioned the religious elements. The ending though was what doomed this special for me; this is one point that I do not consider an unfair comparison to the '74 film, Suchet losing his shit at the end of the explanation feels completely out of character for him and his version of Poirot. That was the moment where I concluded, "No. This is not Hercule Poirot, and this is not Murder on the Orient Express. I don't know what it is, but it is not the story I know."
I don't know what you mean. Poirot is a very religious character, a very devout Roman Catholic and this is very clear in the novels.
I think you’re biased about the 2010 version because you’re an atheist. The novels clearly state that he’s a catholic.
In 1974 version we have great cast. The Finney is a bit irritating with his asthmatic breathing but, aside that and some clowning, I think that David Suchet took Finney’s Poirot as sample and made him better and more refine.
***
I don’t like to split hairs so I don’t mind that “Belgrade” station in 2001 version doesn’t have anything to do with the real one and the police uniforms aren’t authentic. Who cares and why bother? The problem with 2001 version is lousy acting.
***
The problem with 2010 version, apart from Yugoslav gendarmes not being dressed like 1930s gendarmes (they look more like present day Croatian police), is the Roman Catholic propaganda. Why did they do it is beyond my comprehension. Emphasise is on Poirot’s Catholicism and in the end the teary and shaken Poirot clearly reveals that he has decided to lie to the police.
It is as if Vatican was the producer trying to convince the Christians of the world that the Roman Catholicism is based on love and compassion and not revenge. The only problem is that Roman Catholic Satanic church parades as Christian church but it has nothing to do with Christianity. The billions of not Roman catholic people slaughtered in the name of satan are the sad fact.
During the Second World war in Nazi satellite, so called Independent State of Croatia, 1,2+ million Serbs were slaughtered for being Christians (Orthodox). They even had concentration camps for Serbian children and the sad fact is that the lucky ones were slaughtered. Because the smallest of Serbian children were converted to Catholicism, raised as croats and lied to that the Serbs have murdered they parents. Only the diabolic Vatican mind could’ve come to such an idea to slaughter the Serbs, then take their children and raise them as croats and catholics filling them with hatred for their Serbian relatives. Some of those children have found out, after the war that they were Serbs and that their Serbian parents were slaughtered by croats, but others didn’t. The Vatican and the Roman Catholic croats were never prosecuted for the genocide against Serbs. That is why in the 90s they did it again. This time with the help of the USA they have managed to expel half a million of Serbs from their native country (present day Croatia). Luckily there weren’t as many slaughtered Serbs because the memory of their grandparents and parents slaughtered in Nazi satellite Croatia was vivid so the Serbs decided to defend themselves from croatian neonazis.
So, I keep wondering why did they make an emphasise on Poirot’s Catholicism when there’s no mention of it in the book or did I overlook it?
Your comment starts off well but goes off the rails 🤪
Seriously though the novels make it clear Poirot is a catholic.