Video

Great observation! The answer is no, you should always aim to mount a grab bar directly into a stud whenever possible. This is the most secure and reliable method, providing maximum support and ensuring safety. In my videos, I often test various anchors to show which ones are the strongest. This is because grab bars come in different lengths (like 12, 16, 18, 24 inches, etc.), and with studs typically spaced 16 inches apart, it's unlikely that both ends of the grab bar will align with studs. When you can't hit both studs, using a strong wall anchor is necessary. Manufacturers like Moen and Delta usually include heavy-duty wall anchors with their grab bars for this very reason. While mounting to a stud or wood blocking is always the best option, understanding the strength of different anchors helps ensure a safe installation when you can't use studs on both ends.

Glad it helped! Thank you for watching!

Thank you, Greg! Your appreciation means a lot. Making homes accessible is crucial, and I'm glad to be a part of this journey with you. If you have any questions or need further assistance, feel free to reach out anytime.

Thank you so much for your kind words and support! I’m thrilled to hear you found the video valuable and am hopeful it can indeed help prevent injuries, especially among our most vulnerable populations. Your background in aerospace engineering and your development of an adhesive grab bar is particularly intriguing. Given your expertise, I would love to hear your thoughts on how adhesive grab bars might address the issue of wall flexing. Since the wall still might flex, I'm interested in understanding how your adhesive solution could mitigate this specific challenge. Looking forward to your insights!

Thank you so much for taking the time to contribute your thoughts and experiences to our community. It's invaluable feedback like yours that really helps us all stay informed and safe. I really appreciate you sending those unsafe grab bars back - it's actions like these that make a difference in promoting safety and awareness for everyone. I’d love to hear more from all of you watching. If you have stories or tips related to using grab bars, please share them in the comments below. Your shared experiences can help others make better, safer choices. Let’s keep this conversation going! Thanks again, and stay safe everyone!"

I appreciate your comment and emphasis on blocking! Part 2 is set to release in a few days. Keep an eye out for more revelations!

Thank you for reaching out and sharing your concern, which is absolutely valid. Ensuring the safety and reliability of the grab bar installation is paramount, especially in the scenario you've described. In my experience, although WingIt anchors were my go-to, I've come to discover and test alternatives that offer improved reliability and less risk of damage during installation. I've encountered issues with WingIts, such as tile breakage and potential hidden damage to sheetrock, and requiring twice as many holes to drill, which are far from ideal. After testing various systems, I've found both the Moen “Secure Mount” and the Delta Faucet Anchoring system to be superior choices. Below are my insights (and I'll include links to my detailed testing for reference): Moen: czcams.com/video/vSLvSq5Z0-I/video.html Delta: czcams.com/video/tb2xcfUBESM/video.html Wood Blocking : czcams.com/video/aCP3IR5Kvec/video.html Delta Faucet System: This is my top recommendation for several reasons: Requires a smaller hole (1” vs. 1 ¼”). Features a longer aluminum arm on the top, crucial for supporting the majority of the weight and providing better stability. Made of durable aluminum, enhancing its strength. Moen Secure Mount: A close second, albeit with a slight tendency to slip, necessitating occasional tightening. Still a robust and reliable option. While both systems are commendable, integrating wood blocking, if feasible, is the ultimate approach for maximum stability and safety. I hope this clarifies your options and assists in making a well-informed decision for your installation. Wishing you the best with this important project-please keep me updated on your progress! Daryl

Thanks for the information. This is actually my first grab bar project; I am not a professional. I was also not aware that the anchor systems are compatible with grab bars from a different manufacturer. So, what I am planning to do, after watching your videos, is to use cabinet screws in an existing stud in the wall for the front mount and a Delta anchor in the rear of the grab bar. I would think this would result in a strong installation. Once again thank you for the excellent videos. I now have confidence that the bar will not fail.

Your comment was incredibly insightful, and I truly value the emphasis you placed on the need for choosing a stud finder that's specifically suited for use on tiled surfaces. Your observation about the limitations of the stud finders featured in my video, alongside the importance of adhering to the manufacturers' guidelines, is spot on. However, it appears challenging to pinpoint a company that outright confirms their device is effective on tiled walls. In light of your suggestions, I've initiated contact with numerous manufacturers to gather their insights on the optimal stud finders for tile. The companies on my list include Zircon, Bosch, DeWalt, Franklin Sensors, Stanley Black & Decker, Tacklife, CH Hanson, Ryobi, Klein Tools, Milwaukee Electric Tool, General Tools, Makita, and Walabot. I'm eagerly awaiting their guidance and suggestions for models that are adept at this specific task. I've also watched the Zircon video, "Why is it difficult to Find Wall Studs Behind Tile," available here: czcams.com/video/9wAeFS4b7M0/video.html, and found it to be highly educational. It indeed highlights that certain models are more capable of overcoming the challenges associated with scanning through tile. If you or anyone else has any recommendations for specific models or personal experiences with using stud finders on tile, I would be thrilled to learn about them. I am more than willing to test these suggestions to create a more detailed guide for our audience. Your perspectives are crucial as we navigate finding the best tools for our home improvement endeavors, particularly for tasks that require a high level of safety and precision. Thank you once more for your valuable contribution to this discussion. Your insights are enriching our community's knowledge and ability to face DIY projects confidently.

Hi there, Thank you so much for taking the time to watch our demonstration and for sharing your thoughts. You bring up a very valid concern regarding the reliability of suction cup grab bars, especially when considering the condition and installation quality of the tiles they are attached to. Indeed, the effectiveness and safety of suction cup grab bars are significantly influenced by the underlying surface's integrity. Tiles that are not securely attached or that are installed on walls made of materials that don't offer a strong bond can compromise the safety that these grab bars are supposed to provide. It highlights an important aspect of home safety-ensuring that not only are the safety devices themselves reliable but also that the environment they are used in supports their intended use. Your point underscores the importance of a thorough evaluation of both the installation surface and the method of attachment for any safety device. It also reinforces why many, including myself, advocate for more permanent solutions, like those involving screw-mounting into studs or reinforced areas behind the wall, for the installation of grab bars. I appreciate your insight and am glad you found the demonstration informative. It's discussions like these that help spread awareness and encourage a more cautious approach to home safety equipment. If you have any more thoughts or questions, please don't hesitate to share. Thank you again for engaging with our content! Best regards, Daryl

@@safeliving-home thankyou for the reply . In the UK the council will often install and indeed modify housing for disabled tenants so theyre really on the ball and know exactly what they're doing but for DIY installs it's well worth reading up and getting some professional insight into the best way to do things . Thankyou for sharing your channel

Hi Steve, Thank you for reaching out with your detailed query. After reviewing the installation guide for the Moen Grab Bar with Secure Mount system (assets.moen.com/shared/docs/instruction-sheets/ins10306a.pdf), I understand your concerns regarding the compatibility of this system with your wall's thickness. The specifications listed in the guide mention compatibility with substrates like ½" or 5/8" drywall, with or without tile or marble, and even 1/8” or 1/4" fiberglass tub surrounds. These specifications seem to serve as guidelines for standard installation scenarios, rather than hard limits. They do not explicitly state that 5/8" is the maximum thickness, suggesting there may be flexibility in the system's design to accommodate slightly thicker walls. When examining the SecureMount Anchor (Part A) and the Guide Sleeve (Part B), as outlined in steps 8 and 10 of the guide, it appears that the crucial factor for a successful installation is ensuring there is enough clearance for Part A to pivot to a 90-degree angle behind the wall, as you also explored in your model. According to my measurements and the installation steps, there seems to be a maximum clearance of approximately 1 ¼ inches for this pivot action, aligning with your wall's thickness. Given your successful trial with a mockup wall setup slightly thinner than your actual wall, it suggests that the SecureMount system might indeed work with your wall's total thickness of approximately 1 1/8 inches. However, I would recommend contacting Moen's customer service at 1-800-882-0116 for official confirmation and any additional installation advice. Their expertise could provide peace of mind before proceeding with drilling into your tile. Best of luck with your installation project, Steve! Please keep us updated on your progress, and don't hesitate to reach out if you have more questions. Your engagement enriches our community, and we look forward to hearing about your project's success. Warm regards, Daryl

Hi Daryl, thank you so much for getting back to me, I appreciate it. I have contacted Moen half a dozen times, but only by email. Each time, they basically copy and paste the specs on their site. I am guessing they need to protect themselves. I have yet to call. I wish I could get in touch with an actual engineer or designer to explain to me why I cannot use their device in a thick application. I must be missing something, but it sure seems to work in my model, and part a does rotate 90 degrees. My other choice is to cut out the drywall/plaster on the other side of my tub and install 2x backing. This is in my dining room. I really want to avoid this, but I am leaning towards that direction. I hate patching drywall/plaster, but I have done it before. It just never quite looks right. Once again, great video, and thanks for getting back to me - Steve

@@stevewilde4430 Hi Steve, Thank you for sharing your experiences and further details with me. It sounds like you’ve been really diligent in trying to get the answers you need from Moen. I understand how frustrating it can be when you feel like you're not getting through, especially when you're seeking technical clarification directly from the source. Reaching out directly to an engineer or designer at Moen would be ideal, but as you've guessed, companies often have policies that limit such direct interactions to manage liability and streamline customer service. Despite this, your ingenuity and testing are commendable and provide valuable insight into the practical application of their products beyond the standard specifications. Based on your description, it seems like your model effectively demonstrates the grab bar's potential in thicker wall applications. However, considering all factors and the responses you’ve received so far, going through the dining room wall to install 2x wood blocking might indeed be your best bet. As we've discussed in our videos, including the one linked below, wood blocking offers unparalleled stability and strength for mounting grab bars. This method is widely recognized as the optimal solution for ensuring safety and durability, even though it presents its own set of challenges, particularly in terms of the work involved and the aesthetic considerations for your dining room. I know that cutting into the wall and patching it afterward is not ideal, especially in such a visible area as a dining room. The apprehension about the finished look not matching perfectly is understandable. However, from a structural and safety standpoint, installing the wood blocking will give you the most reliable result. It’s a tough decision, but prioritizing the grab bar's secure installation might be worth the extra effort in this case. For a visual guide and some additional tips on installing wood blocking for grab bars, please refer to our video: czcams.com/video/aCP3IR5Kvec/video.html It might offer some helpful insights or techniques to make the process a bit smoother and the finish more seamless. Thank you again for your kind words about our video, and for reaching out with your question. It's clear you're committed to making the safest and most informed decision possible, and I truly hope this helps. Please keep me posted on your progress, and don't hesitate to reach out if you have more questions or if there's anything else we can do to assist. Best of luck with your project, Steve. I'm rooting for you!

Thank you Daryl. I probably am going to install backing. You also have a great video on backing, and I will probably go with the Kreg pocket screw system to attach the 2x's. We have a 24" bar, I do not need to be ADA compliant. I just want it to be comfortable for my wife to get out of the tub. We are just trying to decide if the bar should be horizontal, or at an angle. I really do not want to go with 2 horizontal bars. It sounds like a diagonal bar should be between 30-45 degrees. I like the look of 30 degrees over 45 degrees. Thanks again, you really are awesome and your videos are amazing.

Thank you for your question! It's great to see your interest in finding a secure and reliable solution for grab bars. While the idea of using super glue to enhance the grip of suction cup grab bars might seem tempting, I'd like to offer an alternative approach that could be more effective and specifically designed for this purpose. I've actually created two videos exploring adhesive grab bar systems, which are a fantastic alternative to both suction cup grab bars and the idea of using super glue. These systems are designed with safety and durability in mind, providing a more reliable solution for those in need of support in the bathroom or other areas of the home. czcams.com/video/el5FaSvuIas/video.html czcams.com/video/ZsBiWLapkAg/video.html Using super glue is not something I'd recommend for this application, mainly because there are products available that are specifically engineered and tested to provide a secure hold without the complications that come with DIY solutions. Plus, I'm all about using the right tool for the job! I'm planning to do some future testing on various grab bar installation methods, including exploring other innovative solutions that go beyond traditional suction cup or even adhesive methods. My goal is always to provide you with the most reliable and safe options for your needs. In the meantime, I highly recommend checking out my videos on adhesive grab bar systems. They might offer exactly what you're looking for, with the added benefit of being designed for this very purpose. Your safety is paramount, and using a system that's been tested and proven is the best route to ensure that. Stay tuned for more updates, and thank you again for engaging with the content. Your safety and well-being are always my top priorities!

Hi Dwayne, Thank you for reaching out and for your kind words about the video. I understand the challenge you're facing with your specific setup, having 1x3's behind tile/drywall adjacent to a concrete wall. It's indeed crucial to consider the stability and safety of the anchoring system for grab bars, especially in a setup where traditional fastening methods may not offer the confidence or security needed. Given the particulars of your situation - the relatively flimsy 1x3's and the limited gap between the walls - I would recommend considering an adhesive type grab bar system. These systems are designed to provide a strong, reliable hold without the need for drilling into potentially unstable substrates. In fact, I've discussed and demonstrated the efficacy of adhesive grab bar systems in two of my other videos. These solutions might be exactly what you need to ensure safety and stability in your bathroom, without the concern of relying on the 1x3's for support. Adhesive systems can offer a surprisingly robust alternative, provided they are installed correctly and allowed to set as per the manufacturer's instructions. I highly encourage you to check out these videos for a detailed look at how these adhesive systems work and how you might apply them to your situation. They could provide a viable solution that fits within the constraints you're dealing with. czcams.com/video/el5FaSvuIas/video.html czcams.com/video/ZsBiWLapkAg/video.html Please feel free to follow up if you have any questions after viewing those videos, or if there's anything more I can do to assist. Your safety and satisfaction with the project are of utmost importance. Best regards, Daryl

@@safeliving-home Thank you. I did see those videos after I posted here. The person using it only weighs 110 lbs so the adhesive route would probably be fine. I'm not worried about the adhesive, but the almost 50 yr old thinset.

@@dwayne0t@dwayne0t, Let me reach out to Reggie and see if he can send you one of his grab bars. It's got a long aluminum plate that could go over several small tiles. This is his channel www.youtube.com/@regtomerlin

Hi Donald, Thank you so much for engaging with my video on the reasons to avoid suction cup grab bars. Your question regarding plastic stalls is a great one, and I want to ensure I give you the most accurate advice tailored to your specific situation. In my experience, the effectiveness and safety of suction cup grab bars can vary significantly depending on the material and structure of the shower stall walls. For example, I've conducted tests on various surfaces, and consistently, suction cup grab bars tend to slide under any significant weight load, posing a safety risk. Similarly, adhesive mount systems often fail to adhere reliably to plastic or fiberglass wall systems. To provide you with the best possible guidance, could you please clarify the type of shower stall you have? Specifically, are you dealing with a fiberglass shower stall or one outfitted with shower panels? Any additional details about the wall material or the construction of your shower stall would be immensely helpful. Understanding the specifics will allow me to offer more precise recommendations on the safest and most effective solutions for your needs. I'm here to help, so feel free to share any further information or questions you might have. Looking forward to your response, Daryl

@@safeliving-home Thanks for answering. All I can tell for sure is that it's a one piece tub and 3 sided stall.

@@donaldshroyer8633 There are a limited number of options for grab bar anchoring systems for one-piece Fiberglass showers or tubs. I haven’t done a video on this yet, but will one day. The options of the anchoring systems are. The SolidMount system - czcams.com/video/qqZ9rk7vqkM/video.html This system bolts into the wall studs to give you a good anchoring system. Moen and Delta also make anchors they claim work on fiberglass tubs/showers. These two systems rely on the strength for the fiberglass wall to support the grab bar. I have done videos on these two systems, but I did not test them on fiberglass tubs. The videos do show the product specifications for fiberglass tubs. Delta Grab bar anchor - czcams.com/video/tb2xcfUBESM/video.html Moen Secure Mount - czcams.com/video/vSLvSq5Z0-I/video.html Let me know if you have any other questions.

@@safeliving-home Thanks again for your input.

Hi Chuck, Thank you for taking the time to watch my video and provide feedback! I appreciate your insights. You’re absolutely right-I focused on a single horizontal test line during my stud finder testing. Your suggestion to add additional horizontal lines and then average the response sections makes a lot of sense. I’ll definitely take that into consideration for future tests. Thanks again for your input!

You're very welcome! I'm thrilled to hear you found the video on no-drill adhesive grab bar installation interesting and hopefully, helpful. It's always my goal to share innovative solutions that can make our homes safer and more accessible. Thank you for taking the time to watch and for your kind words. May blessings come your way too. If you have any more questions or need further assistance, please don't hesitate to reach out. Stay safe!

You're most welcome! I'm so glad you found the information and lab work on anchors for grab bars both informative and useful. It's crucial for me to ensure that everyone considering these types of installations has access to reliable and thorough information to make the best decisions for their safety and needs. Thank you very much for your kind words and support. Blessings to you as well! If you have any further questions or if there's another topic you're interested in learning about, please feel free to let me know. Take care!

Hi Alpine, Thank you for taking the time to watch my video and sharing it in the comments section. You will see that nie wieder bohren won’t warranty their systems on fiberglass. The surface must be ridged. My fiberglass tub walls flex, so I haven’t tried it. I did send them an email asking. I’ll keep you posts. I’ll link the FAQ page to their site. Help. (nodrillingrequired.com) I haven’t tested the Solid Mount Kit yet, but I would one day. I know that the literature on the Moen Secure Mount System and the Delta Grab Bar Anchoring System both state the work of fiberglass shower systems. I’ve put links below. Moen Brochure sma1000sp.pdf (moen.com) My Moen Video czcams.com/video/vSLvSq5Z0-I/video.html Delta Brochure CP4657-XXX-02 (deltafaucet.com) My Delta Video- czcams.com/video/tb2xcfUBESM/video.html Thanks Daryl

The links to the manufacturers didn't copy over. Here they are. Moen Brochure assets.moen.com/shared/docs/product-specifications/sma1000sp.pdf Delta Brochure media.deltafaucet.com/MandI/CP4657-XXX-02.pdf

Hello Reg, I appreciate your input. For a long time, I relied on WingIt's for installing grab bars in sheetrock. However, my perspective changed after conducting some tests. The opportunity to observe the back of my test wall revealed the potential damage that this type of anchoring system can cause to a sheetrock wall. This experience highlights how unseen consequences can occur behind the scenes.

Hi Linda, Thank you very much for watching and commenting. If your shower/bath wall is tiled all the way to the ceiling, it will be extremely difficult to find the stud accurately. If you do have sheetrock above the tile line you should be able to locate at least one stud to anchor into, then use one of the anchoring systems for the other side. I’m preparing to put more videos up on the anchoring system for tile walls. The choices are the Toggler SnapToggle (with stainless steel machine screws, the Moen A750 anchor, the Delta DF549 anchor, or the WingIts. I’ve put Amazon links below as a reference. I have completed the testing and filming on all of these, but I need to put the CZcams videos together. Everything else I tested failed. www.amazon.com/TOGGLER-SNAPTOGGLE-Zinc-Plated-Channel-Fastener/dp/B0051IBD0C/ref=sr_1_11?crid=KTVQ492YNFQ3&keywords=Toggler+stainless&qid=1704825674&s=hi&sprefix=toggler+stainless%2Ctools%2C76&sr=1-11 www.amazon.com/Prime-Line-9127924-Machine-Phillips-Stainless/dp/B07D5V2JLS/ref=sr_1_27?crid=2D874FKR4RMUP&keywords=1%2F4+20+x+2+1%2F2+stainless+steel+round+head+phillips+machne+screws&qid=1704826027&s=hi&sprefix=1%2F4+20+x+2+1%2F2+stainless+steel+round+head+phillips+machne+screws%2Ctools%2C87&sr=1-27 www.amazon.com/DF549-Hollow-Bathroom-Safety-Anchor/dp/B00KQ3JVSI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=33OBSRA4DMZK&keywords=delta+grab+bar+anchor+kit&qid=1704826182&s=hi&sprefix=delta+grab+bar+a%2Ctools%2C80&sr=1-1 www.amazon.com/DF549-Hollow-Bathroom-Safety-Anchor/dp/B00KQ3JVSI/ref=sr_1_1?crid=33OBSRA4DMZK&keywords=delta+grab+bar+anchor+kit&qid=1704826182&s=hi&sprefix=delta+grab+bar+a%2Ctools%2C80&sr=1-1 www.amazon.com/dp/B004CCRJWO?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder_k0_1_7&amp=&crid=3NCCO1S1U3GEU&amp=&sprefix=wingits I just did a CZcams video on the WingIts installed in sheetrock. czcams.com/video/ZD04mZL9jDs/video.htmlfeature=shared It failed the testing in Sheetrock but it did well in Tile. The only issue I have is you have to drill two ¾ inch holes per side, versus two, ½ holes for the Toggler system. The Delta and Moen systems are great, and they only require one hole per side, Delta is 1 inch hole and the Moen requires an 1/14 hole. Let me know if I answered your question. Thanks again for watching. Daryl

@safeliving-home thanks. I am familiar with those toggles and the moen. However, I have never seen the Delta mount. I have purchased multiple diamond tip 1 1/4" hole saws to drill through tiles. I have had several instances where the tile goes to the ceiling.

I truly apricate you are taking the time to watch video and providing your comments. Thank you!

Hi Reg. Thanks for watching and your kind words

The choice of grab bar installation depends on your individual circumstances. Can you install grab bars that are mechanically fastened? If not, adhesive-based options are also available. I'll be posting a video about this topic in the upcoming week.

I'm truly sorry to hear about your mother's accident with the suction cup grab bar. It's important to recognize that while these bars are convenient, they may not offer the same stability as permanently installed ones. The failure you experienced underlines the need for careful product selection, especially for the elderly or those with mobility issues. For safety, it's generally recommended to use permanently mounted grab bars, professionally installed and regularly checked. Your ongoing lawsuit highlights the need for accountability and improved safety standards in the manufacturing of such products. It's crucial to consult healthcare professionals for personalized advice on home safety equipment. I hope your mother has recovered, and your experience serves as a valuable caution for others in choosing the right support equipment.

Since then stainless steel bars have been installed.@@safeliving-home

Thank you for tuning into my videos and sharing your thoughts. Your concern about the reliability of suction cup grab bars is well-founded, particularly in contexts where safety is paramount. Suction cups are inherently susceptible to losing their effectiveness over time, influenced by factors such as air pressure fluctuations, temperature variations, and the state of the surface they adhere to. This gradual loss of adhesion might not be immediately evident, but it can eventually lead to the grab bars failing to hold. In environments like bathrooms, where grab bars are typically installed, the challenges are even more significant. These areas are often damp and heavily used, which can accelerate the decline in the suction cups' grip. Given the critical function of grab bars in preventing accidents like slips and falls, it's essential that they maintain a strong and reliable hold at all times. In my series, I'd love to include your anchoring system for fiberglass wall enclosures.

Feel free to use it. @@safeliving-home Feel free to use it. I do recomend clarity that it is only for fiberglass enclosures. Thank you

Hi Stan. I finally posted the adhesive grab bar video. See the attached link. Thanks for watching and commenting. I will have another one out shortly. czcams.com/video/el5FaSvuIas/video.html

Hi Phyllis, I believe I can help you

Hi Reg. I watched your grab bar videos! Very nice design. If you go to the about section of my channel, my email address is listed. Email me your contact information and we can talk further. Thanks for all your comments. We have a mutual goal of making homes safe and accessible for everyone.

Glad to help

I will take a look at it today.

**did you do exhaustive safety tests on these chinese made shower handles?**

What type of testing are you referring to? In my video, I used a test similar to the test required by the ADA. Let me know if you need additional information. Thanks Daryl

Hi Reg. Thanks you for your comments. I hope to have a lot more videos to put up!

Hi, and thank you for watching. I'm currently testing the "No Drilling Required" grab bar by nie wieder bohren. This is an epoxy system, and I hope to have it completed in the next few weeks or so. What type of surface are you mounting to? I'm only testing the grab bars up to 250 pounds as that is what the ADA sets as a guideline. I'm not a testing lab. I'm just a guy with a garage and time on my hands who wants to learn, provide helpful information and promote safety to people with all abilities. Thanks again for watching, Daryl