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HI LILY! Thank you!

Yes! A thousand times yes! People like this use the concept of forgiveness as a blunt weapon. They twist the definition and guilt you into “wiping the slate clean”. It’s never about the harm that they’ve done or keep doing, never about repair - it always about how you are bitter or unforgiving if you don’t let it go completely. They don’t get to hurt you forever, they don’t get to hurt you at all. Enough is enough!

I agree. No contact has been difficult for me too at times. My Two Tours of Madness lasted all together 26 years. So History.. But I did once take the Narcissist way to counter the attacks but I now think how much of her ways were an attempt to make me understand and possibly heal and I couldn't understand that at the time. So I wonder what if I had and did I have a chance to fix things but I chose to walk away? Still wondering..

I guess I should have stated this when I first posted to your channel but Thank You. You are very Insightful. Much Appreciated.

Same with mine. We are at the point now where I allow texting messages on superficial topics with very tight boundaries. Any crossing boundaries is a week of silence on my part. It’s the best I can manage.

My husband had a toxic mother who tried to break us up from the beginning, I never got in between them and I would encourage him to have a relationship with her. It was hard because she would go to far with her lies. She would never come visit us , she missed graduation of all three of our children their marriages and she only got to meet one of our children. We offered to come get her bring her home. Buy her new clothes anything she wanted. She never had time for our kids. I sympathize with you, we realize she was never going to change.

No contact for me. It was the only way.

At the time of my experience I actually didn't know what a Narcissist was as I was much younger, but I did throw it back at them for awhile until I realized that wasn't me, so I went quiet.

Mama always said don't be a reactor... That makes you toxic. Be an actor.... Don't be a reactor.

Humor is a GREAT healer ✌️ He sounds very immature n Very sick. I'm not surprised what he did ,and his reasoning is very Personal... that's what his goal was. My now X covert Narcissist GF told me..The reason she treated me so awful on PURPOSE, is because she loved me very much ( I've heard many sick things in my life ) but this was the sickest by far ( And sadly) She was telling the Trueth for once ...I also told her ( Thanks ) For being such a awful Slut human scum. She Made me realize what a good woman I already had in my life..and her behavior...kept my family together...IM very thankful for This 🙏

What if it’s a parent? Any suggestions on people you can’t really gray rock?

Oh yes the name calling. I always saw it as childish and immature, the same way a child would get angry and name call and of course then the blame game. I would rather stay alone than have to deal with a mean egotistical person for a partner that can't see me for me. Misery loves company but I cannot be a part of that drama.

I dated someone like this. I cried all the time. He was a real pos. He was also abusive in every way possible. My best advice is to try and get away from this person. They are not going to change. And that really sucks when it’s someone you love

Yes! No empathy at all. Just broken covert people with no remorse. Still, today I cannot fathom why they cannot change. Lol, and when you leave them they start that same bs. Anger, then blame, then I'm sorry, and I understand. Please come back. I miss you so much. The audacity. They only wish to continue to feed their beast. Never! Ever! Anyway, thanks Lily. Have a pleasant week.

If my husband starts..I walk away.. He gets pissed

Most definitely the cheating and complaining, and then I would be the reason for it every single time. I was always a devoted person so that hit me in the core, which she loved. And that prideful grin after.. Why ruin a good time and destroy experiences? Cause they revel in it. It's a shame some are so lost within their own selfishness.

Are you serious rn? umm.. what!!? Wow, that was petty and unnecessary. So glad you don't have to put up with that crap any longer Lil. My best to you.

Like a spy recording your guy 🤦🏼‍♂️

Forgiveness isn't for them.

The same Family Dynamic but my Mother was the dependent one. I had 3 brothers and all were just like my Father. Although that experience created a Hellscape, I learned then not to forgive them and focus on ways to beat them. I had to. But what a waste of a good opportunity to be a loving family that support each other.

Complete Silence and Yawning. Drove my Narcissistic ex crazy with rage. Or a hard stare while she talked down to me. That always made her question her actions and walk away upset.

There it is. My Mother forgave my Father for abusing her for over 20 years while he continued to abuse her. Forgiveness of an abuser allows them to continue to abuse. Forgive yourself, not those that abuse you. I hope you are ok Lily, you deserve better.

I apologised for the last time and walked away from my family. Done.

By not forgiving family members is telling them you dont condone/except their behaviour traits. Why say sorry if it is not going to mean something. Is it so they dont have hurt feelings? Your feelings dont matter to them. Stay strong its not resentment you are holding its you dignity.❤

Forgiving people doesn't mean what they did is okay, that there are no consequences, or that they get to continue doing it. You can stop it, put up boundaries, and have consequences for bad behavior while still forgiving.

I always hated when people say be the bigger person, be mature 🙄 it’s so infuriating and stupid, makes me want to slap them whenever it’s said lol

We MUST diagnose our abusers OURSELVES because they will NEVER submit ti being evaluated because they believe they are normal.

Totally understand your reluctance to " forgive" your abusers. They're not telling you to forgive, but to put up with the abuse and not make a fuss. That's called 'enabling' and is not anywhere near the definition of forgiveness. My heart goes out to you, myself being in a 30-year abusive marriage. I would just push down my feelings so I wouldn't rock the boat because doing so would make things even worse. I finally got free and was able to process my pain and trauma and have come to understand what forgiveness actually is and it's not just putting up with abuse. To forgive doesn't mean you're excusing what your abuser did. It just means you're letting go of the hurt and not allowing yourself to be tethered to that other person because of that hurt. For me it really helped my healing process to have supportive people validate that what the abuser did was wrong and hurtful and that I was justified in feeling hurt and angry and then I was able to let go. That was my process, anyway. Find supportive friends and maybe a therapist who understands how to help with trauma ❤

I just phased people out.

Don’t think everyone deserves to be forgiven. Forgive yourself for making the mistake of entertaining them this long. ~ Sadia Karim

Get out! Whatever : the relationship isn't working! You can do better. Abuse is in many forms. Leave !

I am grateful for my parents, my father is the hardest working man i know and anyone who meets him agrees, but he wasn't always good, he was an alcoholic and abusive when he was younger but he did what he could and stopped all his vices because he didn't want to lose his family. It's hard but sometimes if possible you can come out stronger but only if they take responsibility for what they did without wanting an apology from someone else.

One therapist does not necessarily obviate your culpability

Went low contact with my mum after she visited last summer (almost a year ago) and it's been the best decision

The problem with wanting a better relationship with an abusive parent is, that can only happen if they're willing to change for the better. And more than a few abusive people would sooner die. :/

See. The funny thing about mental issues is that there are levels to everything. Autism. Depression. Anxiety. Narcissism. That's why it's impossible to manage your relationships with anyone. Because every single person has some level of trauma. If you're not strong enough to endure any one person's BS then stay away. And when you try and see if it works and it doesn't. Don't overthink it. It's just not working. This is why professional manipulators and those who do not have trouble caring about the feelings of others can move on and not shoulder the burden of pain. We r snowflakes. Do NOT EXPECT ANYTHING except the unexpected, everywhere and with everyone.

It is really weird to see that mask come out and they are a totally different person. Had me considering the possibility that she had some sort of bipolar or MPD going on. Family member said how they like her so much. I replied that I don't see that person at home although it was the person I dated and was married to for about 6 months.

This was a hard thing to learn how to do.

Hey hey. This was my week this week 😂😫

I've been figuring out a lot of stuff about my childhood in the last handful of years and about my personality. Realizing my brother is a narcissist doesn't really surprise me. Realizing my mom is a covert narcissist opens up a whole new world to me.

It took me 5 decades to go no-contact. I slipped up when my father was put in hospice - took my narc mom one week to have me thinking about death again. Now my husband and daughters have been given permission to sit me down before I go back ever again.

I've been no contact with my mother for about 4 years now, and before that, my relationship with her was very minimal for about 4 years prior. I'm due with my first baby in 5 days and I still have not reached out and don't plan to. Not a photo, not a visit, nothing. I will protect my baby. If it had been up to her, my baby wouldn't even exist.

I've been NC with my father 7yrs and my mother 6 yrs now. I had no issue cutting my father out, he was the more in your face destructive/abusive type. With my mother however she was much more subtle in her abuse and manipulation. I didn't even realize how deep her claws were in me until I went NC and grappled with the immense guilt and gaslighting myself for years after about what she did to me my whole life. Even though she was stalking and harassing and threatening me for years after and even then I STILL struggled with the guilt. I only stopped feeling that way in the last year or so and a lot of that is due to my incredible therapist and my wonderful fiance.

NC was never allowed. My father held us to a promise we as children made. What she did during her life still affects my life and she has been gone for 5 years now. So many lies, so much hurt, so much anger, so much unforgivness i had to deal with all through out my life becuase of her and by her. We were terrified of her and her brutal anger. I learned through God and reading the bible that to be forgiven I had to forgive HER. I did. I was told later that she asked for forgivness and said she was sorry for everything she did to me and my children, she was gone within 24 hours i never heard her words as I was not there for the last 2 years of her life.

After 15 years I know she is a covert narc. Only came to that realization because of Dr. R. Nearly all these scenarios in Dr. R. videos I have lived and know what is coming before it is said. Your story sounds very much like mine with two exceptions, I never doubted myself and never let her put 'rules' on me. So, no, there is no official diagnosis, that I am aware of (chance her therapist did diagnose this and that is why she stopped therapy) , but I've lived and am living it. If it walks like a narc, talks like a narc, its a narc.

It only takes one minor thing that is not even a thing to set mine off. Even me and my daughter having a fun conversation can set her off. She feels 'left out'. However, she does not even want to join in. Oh the cheating thing. My fav was when she accused me of cheating.. for 3 hours 6-9 AM on Sunday when I went to the club for target shooting. I laughed in her face and said something like, 'Cause that is what a woman wants, 3h early Sunday mornings.' End of discussion. Given what I've learned this probably means she is cheating.. and I don't care as long as our daughter does not find out.

Only got one even remotely sincere apology. She told a flat out lie to someone in front of me. Owned up to it.. for 40min. I timed it because I knew she would never accept blame and it was only a matter of time before she came to explain to me that I had 'heard it wrong' or 'took it wrong' or it was somehow my fault. I mean, why should she apologize since everything is my fault. Including not apologizing for things that are not my fault.

Yep. I don't engage and of course I'm berated for it. If I cared it might bother me. Interesting thing she can't be consistent. Typical no more than one day can go by without some BS. Consistently inconsistent is an apt phrase.

Thankfully I never doubted myself and bought into all the gaslighting etc. Probably one of the reasons she is so angry. My strength, which probably attracted her at first, is now a negative trait according to her. About a year before I found out what was going on I was done, out of gas, no more trying. Since finding out what is going on seriously in the IDGAF zone.

Therapy. Mine has been in therapy over 30 years. We have tried marriage counseling, twice before I knew what was up. Both times were stopped by her. On third try.. only a matter of time before this one is stopped cold. Sessions are all about what I've done wrong. Heard or read somewhere else that they go to therapy to get weapons, not tools. I'm guessing mine was told by her therapist that she is a narcissist. One, she accused me once of being the narc. Two, learned through the grapevine that she quit therapy because she got mad at the therapist. Same reason marriage counselor number 2 was given the boot.