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"In your midst" is correct especially when you look at the context of how Luke uses the phrase "kingdom of God" after chapter 17. Besides the burden that translators have to accurately translate from the original Hebrew and Greek, the readers are burdened with accurately interpreting scripture (small "s") with the whole of the Bible, that is with "Scripture" (with a capital "S"). Luke 17:21 in the KJV has been used by cults to claim that EVERYBODY has the Holy Spirit and that of course in heresy.

"understanding the Bible"? We all understand the Bible, the debate is over an archaic and poorly translated Bible from 1611.

@@JimDeferio Of course, there Jesus' remark that he had yet many things to say and that the Spirit of Truth will reveal them. They should clear a lot of the mysteries still yet to be resolved.

It is VERY strange how so any people want to use the 1611 AV with its demonic drawings, apocrypha, mistranslations, omissions and deletions. Prove that Vaticanus has The Shepherd in it. OK, lots of people today read all sorts of visions and other fairytales given by teachers and pastors and self-appointed prophets so what needs to happen is that these people throughout the past to the present need to be called out and rebuked. But what does any of that have to do with the preserved TEXT of the Bible? I can make a genetic fallacy too as you did and as I did in the first part of my 1st sentence above (the part about demonic drawings and the apocrypha - which the original 1611 definitely has). Stop being so fearful of improvement.

Actually it is early modern English but that is not the issue. The issue is all of the translation errors and the lack of old Hebrew and Greek texts used by the KJV translators and the addition and/or omission of words and verses in the text.

The Pharisee being Jack Moorman and the apostle being James White.

The KJV Onlyists have actually said that those whose mother tongue (native language) is not English must learn English and read ONLY the KJV. This is how utterly nuts some of them are. However, when the Day of Penetecost had fully come, God spoke to each of the people in their OWN native language! See Acts chapter two.

@@JimDeferio excellent point about Acts 2. I am watching this, again, years later after I watched it the first time. Do you know the timestamp where either Dr. White or Moorman talks about the different versions of the KJV (I think one was a Cambridge version???) If you do, could you post the timestamp. It would be most helpful. Grace to you!

When one says "they" are not kjv only... Simply ask them to share a few KJV scriptures they (PERSONALLY) disagree with. They'll likely try to redirect the conversation, wanting to APPEAR to be a perfectly objective theologian.

@@DouglasNicholson-ff6ep "theologian"? Ummm, no, you meant "textual critic", not theologian. That huge error in understanding disqualifies you from having any further part in this discussion. I can give you MANY verses where the KJV is in error. There are literally errors in the KJV from the very first verse of the Bible, Genesis 1:1, to the very last verse of the Bible, Revelation 22:21. But what about people who are not KJV Only who supposedly cannot give any verses they disagree with? This may surprise you but most people have moved on from that and are reading and studying their Bible for themselves and for their family and they no longer care about your corrupt 400+ year old translation. How about you giving me some verses that you disagree with in the Bishop's Bible? LOL Btw, I know much on this topic because I am analytical by nature and I also did much open air street preaching with KJV Onlyists and I heard all of their reasons for staying with the KJV - none of which were good reasons but were reasons that were superstitious by nature and that had a good deal of presumption and eisegesis mixed in.

This was NOT a "theological debate" but a debate on the all important fundamental basis of Christianity - THE WORD OF GOD. If THAT isn't important then nothing else is.

The Byzantine is filled with errors and over the years it became a "fat Bible" due to additions. Read James White's book if you care about truth and accuracy: "The King James Only Controversy: Can You Trust Modern Translations?"

Silly, exactly. Use it, but don’t slavishly cling to it alone and reject everything before and after it as if it is its own self-arresting standard.

Amen Brother, praise Jesus Christ. My first Bible was a KJV, but I lost it while moving (I was devastated). Then after praying to God for another Bible, a planter of Jesus Christ handed me a ESV Bible that I still used to this day. Mark 9:39-40 But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. For the one who is not against us is for us. 1 Corinthians 1:10-17 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe’s people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. I don't have an issue with people that prefer KJV, but I do have an issue with people preaching "KJV only" for all English Speakers. I'm sorry, but that isn't a commandment from Jesus Christ. If anyone says that they have been commanded by Jesus Christ to say that "ALL ENGLISH SPEAKERS" abide in the KJV Bible, "For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways." (James 1 : 7-8). "Matthew 7:20 - Thus you will recognize them by their fruits." I see the "KJV Only" fruits, all I see is unnecessary fruits of division among Christians fellow. Their words are like prickles of thistles, thorns of a thornbush, I do not hear the words of love in their sentences, nor do I hear them even quote scripture that can back their passionate sinful flesh, nor do they pray to Jesus Christ for his guidance or ask what his will to be done regarding the different Bible Translations. Where is their faith and love? All I hear from the "KJV Only" side is the sound of a "Noisy gong and clanging cymbal. John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. I Appeal to all English speaking Christians and along side all Christians in this world, that we be united to Jesus Christ, and that we must not be divided on what Bible we use. Unless it clearly goes against the message of Jesus Christ. If we do not agree, then this is how we create religious wars among our brothers and sisters. The battle is not amongst fellow Christians. REMEMBER English wasn't even around when Jesus Christ walked among this world. I am thankful that God allows us to worship him and read scripture in our Mother Tongue (American English for me). In Jesus name Amen. P.S. I was born again while reading the ESV, and through the Grace of Jesus Christ our Lord, Savior, and Heavenly Father, he gave me the Holy Spirit. The words in the Bible are alive, and it speaks Gods Word, and it was all through the ESV he revealed this to me (I am not ESV only, but I am ESV preferred). I was blind and now I see. AMEN to the one true God Jesus Christ. John 9:31-33 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him. Never since the world began has it been heard that anyone opened the eyes of a man born blind. If this man were not from God, he could do nothing. This is also what a good Bible does for a believer in Christ like the ESV. John 3:27 - John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. So even John admits that if you receive grace it is by the will of heaven, not which Bible you read. Let's dive more into the verse more. John 3:25-30 Now a discussion arose between some of John’s disciples and a Jew over purification. And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, he who was with you across the Jordan, to whom you bore witness-look, he is baptizing, and all are going to him.” John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him.’ The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. He must increase, but I must decrease. You can see how humble John was when Jesus came into the world, and became great among the people who believed. John wasn't resentful or mad. He was glad, and rejoiced, and told his disciples not to be alarmed. So we should not be alarmed when fellow Christians receive the word of God through modern translation of the Bible such as the ESV.

One more thing I would like to add. This "KING JAME ONLY" WAR, this is taking us away from the real purpose in this world. Proclaiming Jesus Christ as Lord, Savior, and Heavenly Father who will give us believers eternal life, is the real purpose for all Christian's.

I pray Father that we as your heavenly children, help us stop grumbling amongst ourselves. That we be united under you the one true God (Jesus Christ). That you teach us in your ways. That you please strengthen the union among your children. That every child of Christ gather together, as well as read scripture every day with the Bible you choose to bless us with. So that we may abide in you, and you abide in us; so that none of your children may ever perish in the lake of fire. In Jesus Name Amen.

Actually the real purpose is also to defend the faith against heresy and all of the epistles make this clear. The King James Only War was started by heretics and their influence and lies are much more widespread than most think. The KJV Onlyists also tend to teach doctrines of "once saved always saved" whereby one can backslide into adultery, drunkeness, homosexuality and other sins and still be saved simply because they said a prayer in the past. Jesus is NOT their Lord. Not all teach this but I would say most do (and I do personally know many from various parts of the nation).

​@JimDeferio Thats a very bad argument, because if you read all the letters by the disciples, they teach not oasa..but you blame KJB for men's thinking....thats corrupted

Wow! This is one of the most ignorant comments I have ever encountered. There are NO New Testament fragments among the Dead Sea Scrolls and there never was any. What has been found are thousands and thousands of NT Greek and other language Bible manuscripts, NT fragments and entire very old Bibles and other writings that shed much light on the Scriptures and the spread (dissemination) of the NT Scriptures. Check out: "Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts" and also do an internet search and even a Wikipedia search (I usually recommend against Wikipedia because of their extreme Leftist bias but I found them to be very fair in reporting on New Testament and Old Testament ancient documents.

Kinda like a sassy teenaged cheerleader who is facing Mike Tyson in the ring. That is lose to the intellectual difference between Moorman and White.

Both? Moorman doesn't have a single valid point. Moorman's "points" are emotional appeals to a tradition of a sect of men. Hmmm, seems to me that Jesus had a few disputes with religious hypocrites who held to traditions from the Babylonian captivity (which spawned the false religion of Judaism - a religion that Paul the apostle used to be part of and which is practiced today in an even worse form by those of the synagogue of Satan who say they are _____ but are not).

@@JimDeferio I agree with James White on a lot of his points. However, I do also personally believe that especially in other religions, there can only be one version of their books and Christianity is not an exception to that rule. You simply can't have 20 or 30 different translations of the Bible in English alone (not counting any amount of translations in other languages) and have them all be 100% true. Logically thinking about this, there can only be one 100% true and accurate translation of the Bible. Now do I think the KJV is that version? I honestly don't have a definitive answer to that, since I'm not a scholar or pastor/priest. However, I will say that there needs to be more uniformity to perhaps create one English bible translation, in which translators from committees and teams that work on all currently existing English translations pool their resources together to create one. Ideally, it may be best that it builds on top of the mass success, weight, and historical significance of the KJV and takes into account all of the newest available information from the latest discovered manuscripts from the Textus Receptus and Critical Texts and roll it all into one cohesive and generally clear and legible Bible that doesn't have copyright strings attached to it.

@@diotitus In 2007 the Oxford Dictionary recorded its ONE-MILLIONTH word! That was 16 years ago and the English language has continued to grow with new words and with words that are synonyms and antonyms of previous words and with urban dictionary words ("infinition", the opposite of definition, is an urban dictionary word that I have used frequently along with others). English is by far the language which one can use with great success in expressing very subtle differences in subjects which other languages can't even come close to doing. The dead Greek of the New Testament was once treated as Classical Greek and attempts were made to translate it as such. The KJV is one such translation that did this. THEN a huge stockpile of letters and other materials were discovered with a different style of Greek that scholars quickly realized was the type of Greek used in most of the New Testament (termed "koine Greek"). So, according to you and your KJV Onlyism, at least two things are being ignored in order to keep only ONE translation of the Bible in English: the English language is dynamic, organic and always changing and the second being that the NT Greek is only Classical Greek (or semi-classical Greek) in only the Gospel of Luke and Acts but koine Greek in all the rest of the NT. Ever hear of the Granville Sharp Rule? Because the KJ translators didn't know the NT Greek very well they took away the Godhood of Jesus in at least four Bible passages. Then there is the discovery of thousands of NT manuscripts and fragments dating from the 2nd Century AD to centuries later. Yeah, lets just ignore these. The KJV translators never even used any Greek mss but relied on six edited Greek texts of the NT. Then there is the Old Testament! Wow, what a mess for the KJV translators who used a highly inaccurate and flawed edited Hebrew text. I wrote about this already in the comments if you an find it. And with the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls and other ancient OT mss. do we just keep the ONE English translation called the KJV or do we make a more accurate translation? This is reality and not some pie-in-the-sky spirituality that ignores truth for witchcraft and spiritism. Along with the persecution of Christians through the centuries has also come the attempts to eradiate the Scriptures. Emperor Diocletian in the 3rd century AD not only attempted to murder all Christians but he rounded up Christian texts and burned them. Muslims and others have done the same. Many Bible texts have thus been hidden and the discovery of these is making people realize that what the KJV translators gave us is HIGHLY FLAWED (which they themselves admitted in their preface to the 1611). In translating do you want a direct word-for-word translation? Or idiomatic which may convey the MEANING of the passage more accurately? Or both where warranted by the discretion of the translators? I read the entire NT in a direct word-for-word translation and man was it difficult and painful, lol. Try it sometime (btw, the KJV is NOT a direct word-for-word translation). There's more but I'll spare you. Try to find my comments near the beginning of my posting of this debate. I had to change the setting on this video to where I approve each comment because KJV Onlyists were trying to comment bomb and many of their comments were very nasty and some were crass and near obscene (Onlyists have called me FeFagio, DeLesbian Licker, bastard, of the devil, and a whole bunch more).

@@JimDeferio Oh dang yeah no I'm definitely not a KJV onlyist personally. I'm mostly just trying to find out the truth as to what would be the best bible to read and use. I currently have the ESV, and have researched multiple parts from different points of view as to what would be the safest and most trustworthy translation(s) of the Bible to read. After looking at both sides of the argument, I believe there are valid points and reasonings to both sides. Could you perhaps maybe tell me what your personal recommendation would be as far as trustworthy translations are concerned?

@@diotitus I use mainly the NewKJV with the NU and M text variations noted in the margin of the NT, and the DSS and Septuagint and other text variations noted in the margins of the OT. I also use the NIV and NASB once in a while and I also use a diaglot (NOT the Jehovah Witness diaglot) for difficult passages or passages I suspect were translated according to tradition and not translated accurately according to the context (like "women" in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 and "woman" in 1 Timothy 2:11-14 where it is pretty clear that Paul is speaking of WIVES and a WIFE and not women in general - see what happens if you try to put someone else's wife under your authority, better be prepared to get punched). The NET Online is absolutely the best for scholarly notes on the entire Bible. The translators admitted that their translation suffered from too any chefs in the kitchen but they have made their entire work free with over 100,000 notes from Bible scholars. There is the Classic NET Online and the newest version. I prefer the Classic. Don't get too hung up with trying to understand the Bible and every minutia because it is not going to happen in your life time no matter how hard you study. Many don't even evangelize because they claim they don't understand everything. Well guess what, they never will and they deserve to be rebuked sharply for being disobedient to the very simple and easy to understand command of Jesus to evangelize. Also, study several good books on apologetics. I'm 73 and after being saved on March 3, 1973 and being a student of the word ever since (even through secular college for my science degrees and through raising children and spending tie with grandchildren), I STILL don't understand everything (LOL) but I, along with others, have done hundreds of open air ministry trips across the nation over the years. My last trip was May 2022 as I am reassessing things and including preaching tactics (I may do door to door with literature drops). Bottom line - OBEY JESUS. Calvinists get high on learning learning learning but seem to be low on obeying.

Moorman was ill equipped for an informal debate. James White is a scholar and an expert debater and in an informal debate he would have made Moorman look even dumber than he did in this formal debate. You should hear some of White's debates against the Roman Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses and against William Lane Craig and others. I don't like White's Calvinism but I have to admit that the guy is extremely knowledgeable and a fierce and clever debater.

@mmttomb3 The typical KJVOs will NEVER “give up” anything. Jack’s claiming “…the coming one” instead of correct “…the Holy one*” for Rev 16:5 is a terrific example of his cultic pride getting in the way of seeing the truth. *EVERY** prior English translation reads just as James White argued. **all nine of them

Haha, you're funny. Btw, you seem to be admitting that you are "rotten flesh" and you also are trying to sell us something. Your skills at sales is pathetic. There's hope for you because I was also once an irrational atheist but then I got bitten by my own hypocrisy and awakened to facts and logic. Homo sapien means "wise man"; don't be rotten flesh.

Aaron, you have not added one iota of information to this topic, not one. All you have done is accuse like Satan does. You have also made an "ad hominem" fallacy and a "genetic fallacy" and have outed yourself as someone who is ignorant of the facts and as someone who lacks true Biblical faith (which is based on EVIDENCE and not imagination). See Acts 1:1-3 and 1 John 1:1-3 and John 10:25-26 and verses 32 & 37-38. The early disciples had EVIDENCE. The debate between scholar James White and KJV Onlyist Jack Moorman is about EVIDENCE and Moorman had NONE, just trite aphorisms that sidestep the issue. You can read the KJV if you want (what version & edition do you prefer) but stop the Satanic attacks on Christians and on God's word.

You have NO idea what in the world you are talking about. Even IF the Westcott & Hort text were corrupt in some way, THAT IS NOT THE TEXT USED IN MOST MODERN TRANSLATIONS. What is known is that the KJV uses six corrupt editions of the Greek text and a corrupt Hebrew text. You have been gaslighted by cultists. Hopefully you are not following in the footsteps of most KJV Onlyists and getting divorced & remarried and sinning by getting drunk, becoming involved in perverse sex and other vices that I Corinthians 6:9-10 lists. I used to open air preach with numerous KJV Onlyists fro around the nation and they are now claiming that they can sin and still be saved and that 1 Cor. 6:9-10 doesn't apply to them. You are in a CULT.