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Don’t be deceived by this kook . Pre tribulation is good doctrine .

Preachers like this are the reason why they will cause some to depart from the faith when the pre-trib won't happen: 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Because the "falling away from the faith" and son of perdition needs to be happen first: 2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; The proof of our faith has to come from endurance through temptations and tribulations, for many say they believe and love Christ, but quickly turn away like cowards when confronted with persecution. Could it be that the Pre-Tribulation defenders really want to escape the ultimate chance to prove their faith?? 🤔🤔🤔 For: Jas 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Peach to all in God the Father, Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit! ❤🙏🙏🙏

Everyone watching please share this video with your local church.

What amazes me about those who love to refute or attack the idea that there could be a pre-tribulational rapture....is that they seem unable or unwilling to HOPE to miss the destruction to come, and that somehow their fellow believers who DO hope to escape are somehow "lesser". Shame on all who look down on other Christians this way. Jesus said that we ought to "pray that we be counted worthy to escape" the coming judgment. If you believe that you will be left here to face the horrors that God is going to bring, well, you're tougher than most. Good luck in surviving. But there is MUCH teaching than can be taken to imply that we DO have a way of escape. Just like Noah did. And please, seek fellowship with your other believers, and go lead someone to Christ. Stop attacking others who don't believe EXACTLY as you do.

God Loves us so much that he gave his only begotten son. He is love then why he would let his children to suffer from tribulation ? What good is there in the post tribulation rapture for God's children ?If God let us to suffer the tribulation ,if he didn't save us tribulation then God of bible is not good at all. Post tribulation rapture contradicts the God of bible and all Christian's faith.😅 So be careful, I believe what David cloud says is the truth. Cause god is always good and he is only good. I thank God for saving me from the enternal hell and the tribulation caused by antichrist.

Praise the Lord.

A million wannabe teachers and no practitioners. Chasing fame, fortune, and a following. May the Spirit of God expose and confound you.

You are absolutely wrong…worse yet, you’re ignorant David. You’re as ignorant as the “preacher” who is unable to communicate why the rapture is biblical in a systematic theological manner. In fact, the majority of the believers who embrace “the rapture” are also ignorant. The rapture is a result and not the cause. The ascension of the Holy Spirit is the primary event. HE will be taken away BEFORE the Man of sin is revealed. If the believers are sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 1), it follows that the believer is going where the Spirit is going…upward. The pre-Pentecost believers (not sealed) will not be raptured (non-Church members) at that time. You see, that’s the confusion that the “ministers of righteousness” who went to seminary (cemetery) propagated throughout the apostate churches. Stop listening to men and let the Holy Spirit through the Word of God direct you.

I won't spam the comments section this time, but I want to say a few things. 1. Thank you brother Charlie for your faithfulness to God in standing for the truth. 2. Your critiques are very good and show clearly that David Cloud does not use the Scripture to prove the pre-trib rapture. 3. I join you, as one who has many of David Cloud's books, has listened to nearly all of his sermons on SermonAudio, and gone to meet him in person, in calling David Cloud to renounce his false teaching of the pre-trib rapture and back it up with doing what he would expect anyone who taught falsely on something else to do, no matter the cost.

Thank you for exposing the pre-trib deception! The church of Christ must be prepared for persecution before the return of Christ.

I do believe in a pre-tribulation rapture of the church, but it doesn't supercede my love for my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Here are a few pointers to look for in the scriptures, plainly written for all to see. Take the 2 rapture passages spoken by our Apostle to the gentiles, The Apostle Paul, written down for us in 1 Cor 15: 50-58 and 1 Thess 4:13-18. 1) Notice that when Jesus returns to gather the believers in the air He brings with him from heaven, those who have fallen asleep, the dead in christ, to receive their resurrected bodies. In 2 Corinthians chapter 5 verses 6 to 8 it reads: 6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. It is the souls of the departed saints that accompany Jesus from heaven. Parents, Grandparents, Sons and daughters, close friends and relatives. What an amazing time this will be, seeing not only our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, but loved ones who had passed away believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. Please notice that this is not the second coming of Jesus. In Revelation chapter 19, verses 11 to 21 Jesus returns to judge the whole earth, riding in on a white horse, accompanied by the armies of heaven also riding on horses. These are not the same event, no matter how you dice, slice, and splice these verses they don’t fit together. 2) Those who are still alive at the moment Jesus returns in the clouds will be caught up to Him so we will always be with the Lord. A generation that will not see death, as the Apostle Paul informs us our bodies are instantly transformed from being mortal to immortal. If you want a bibical example of this all we have to do is just have to look at Enoch, the 7th from Adam. Genesis chapter 5 verse 24: 24 Enoch walked faithfully with God; then he was no more, because God took him away. How about you? Are you walking faithfully with God? No where does the Apostle Paul mentions Jesus actually returning to the earth, both the dead and those still alive meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord. 3) It all happens, so fast, in the twinkling of an eye, which is less than .25 a second. No one left on earth will either see or hear this event as it happens so fast. This is different than when Jesus returns to the earth and touches the mount of olives, at His second coming when every eye will see Him return. This is important for the Jews as when they see Him they will realize that Jesus was their Messiah (Zech 12:10-12). Rebuilding the third temple and resuming animal sacrifices will not save them, only believing in Jesus. Interesting it also fulfills what the Apostle Paul said in Romans 11: 25-27 that all Israel will be saved. 4) Therefore encourage one another with these words. As Christians are we encouraging one another? The return of Jesus should be what we all long and strieve for. Please I do not need to go through any part of the tribulation to prove my love for my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, nor should you. It is called a time of Jacob’s trouble or Daniel’s 70th week for a reason. The focus is on the nation of Israel and not the church. 5) Always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor in not in vain. We should be doing the work of the Lord now, sharing in our blessed hope, the return of Jesus with a lost and perishing world. Giving hope where there seems to be no hope, especially in these last days, while we still have time. 6) The sound of the trumpet of God, or the last trumpet in 1 Corinthians. So many make the mistake of putting this trumpet, with the seventh trumpet in Revelation chapter 11 verses 15 to 19. Notice in 1 Thessalonians it is referred to as the trumpet of God while in Revelation it is seven angels sounding their trumpets. The events happening when the 7th angel sounds the trumpet, do not line up with what takes place in 1 Thessalonians. Please read and compare the scriptures for yourself, especially the last part of verse 18 “and for destroying the destroyers of the earth”. Not happening at the rapture. I have already gone on way too long, so I will stop here. Please do your own research, every scripture has to line up, including the old testament. God Bless, Dave

pretrib secret rapture is false doctrine :)

Great video brother.

"Under attack"...? That's the language of cults

His statement is wrong when he says, "The rapture occurs before the day of the Lord." In fact, the rapture occurs at the day of the Lord. In the New Testament, the day of Christ is synonymous with the day of the Lord, and we are gathered to Jesus at the day of Christ when the wicked will be judged. This is all found clearly in 2 Thessalonians 1-2.

I wanted to start preaching with you about the phrase "It's not very comforting to think about the antichrist." Maybe tell Jesus and Paul about that.

At 19:11 When he says "the rapture is a mystery and the second coming is not a mystery." He is implying that the event of the rapture is a mystery, but that is not what 1 Corinthians 15 teaches. It teaches that the translation of living saints is a mystery. In fact, Paul tells us exactly when we can expect that mystery to take place... At the LAST TRUMP.

AMEN to your thoughts on the "last trump." There is zero exegetical reason to believe that it is not the "Great sound of a Trumpet" which announces that "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ."

"Even though them which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him." The pre-trib says one "distinction" between the Rapture and Second Coming are that Jesus comes FOR the saints at the Rapture and WITH the saints at the Second Coming. However, this verse says Jesus comes WITH the saints when He comes FOR the saints.

"It's not our program. It's not our business." Right, Matthew 24 and 2 Thessalonians 1-2 can be totally ignored with one statement: "It's not for us."

Paul and Jesus both plainly taught that Christians should be expecting the anti-Christ and the abomination of Desolation before the day of Christ/day of the Lord. Amen.

Hello Friend, David Thompson here. At around the 6 minute mark David Cloud says the "day of the Lord" is not for the church. I would also say that the Day of the Lord is not the 7 years that make up Daniel's 70th week either. The day of the Lord is the coming of Christ not "the Tribulation Period." I'm still watching so I may come back with more. So far so good.

Are we getting off on tangents? Piggybacking off someone's opinions? Be careful as to what you think is God's discernment. You could be wrong in your assessment.

I want to write a few minutes this morning about the Bible doctrine of “The Rapture.” It is the best word we have for an event that is describes in 1 Thess. 4:17, “17Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.” We choose to designate this event with the word RAPTURE, which is a Latin word that means “to seize something” or “snatch something.” The above verse says we will “meet the Lord in the air.” So this is not the Second Advent, where Christ returns to the earth and places HIS foot on the Mount of Olivet. Now this event will take place before the three and one half years of Tribulation described in the Book of Revelation. I know some denominations don’t believe the Bible truth of the Rapture, because they are trying to work their way to heaven. They think they can “endure till the end” of the Tribulation, well good luck with that. Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus or Paul or any of the Bible writers tell the CHRISTIAN to look for the Tribulation. We are told to look for the “BLESSED HOPE.” Titus 2:13, “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;” Believe me when I tell you that there is no “blessed hope” in the coming Tribulation. If you know your Bible, then you will have noticed that the word Church does not appear one time after Rev. 4:1 to the end of the book. That’s because the Church is not there. The Church does not go through the Tribulation. The Church is referred to as “The body of Christ”, and it has been “Raptured” from the earth. The Tribulation is the “wrath” of God upon this earth before HIS second coming. The word “wrath” appears 13 times in the Book of Revelation. But 1 Thess. says that this coming wrath is not for the Christians; 1 Thess. 5:9, “For God hath not appointed us to WRATH, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” And to make the point clear we read in 1 Thess. 1:10, “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the WRATH to come.” Nowhere, I say “NOWHERE”, are we told to wait for the Tribulation. If you are a blood wash, born again, save by grace, believer of Jesus Christ, you are told to WAIT for Jesus Christ to come back and you will meet HIM in the air, before the Tribulation. The Bible tells us that the saints (Christians) will be with Him at the Second Advent. The word SAINT appears 61 times in the New Testament. We read in 1 Cor. 1:2, “ 2Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints,” so church members are called saints. And in 1 Thess. 3:13 we read, “13To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.” (see also Jude 1:4) The same crowd that does not understand the doctrine of eternal security are the ones that do not under stand The Rapture. When Christ returns at the second advent he brings the saints (saved Christians) with Him. And since the second advent is after the Tribulation, then the saints (church) had to be “caught up” at some point near the beginning of the Tribulation. FINAL THOUGHT: Are you ready to meet the LORD in the air? It could be tomorrow

Why are so many pastors/teachers so preoccupied with the “fallacy” of a pre-Trib rapture? That’s my concern.

First time here. Prove all things great name! Let's talk about doctrine?

Well done for presenting the truth. Pre-tribbers believe this is not a salvation issue. Already believing in a false doctrine means they are not followers of the truth but believe in the lie. What Paul said will befall those who believe in the lie of the Antichrist since if they are taken in by these false teachings, then how much more will they be fooled by the signs that both the Antichrist and the false prophet will perform. They are no way prepared for what is to come. As Jesus says in Matthew 24, he talks about his elect or in other words his chosen. Yet, they believe this refers not to his chosen but to the Jews. If this were true then it would totally contradict the teachings of Paul to say that the gospel is for both Jews and gentles alike. David Cloud is one of many who post on CZcams who preach this nonsense and others who claim that this rapture is coming very soon. As Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many deeds of power in your name? Then I will declare to them, I never knew you, go away from me, you evildoers."

*Matthew 13:37-50, John 6:54 and Revelation 18:4 kjv*

Amen and Amen ❤❤❤❤

pretribs claims that Jesus was only sent to the Jews and all his messages are for the Jews but when it comes to John 14:1-3 Jesus message suddenly becomes for the church, and not for the Jews.

pretribs also teaches multiple first resurrections.

pretrib doctrine distort what is written in the Bible :) 2 Peter 3:14-16 niv So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Nobody living alone on a desert island with nothing but a Bible would ever, ever, ever, in a million years, come up with ANY of this dispensational garbage.

I believe in the post-tribulation Rapture.

He might have been made to believe that GOD Hate him

No disrespect, but you're simply tossing DENIALS out, w/o a/thing from scripture to refute what's being said. For instance, when he said the rapture is the next prophetic event on God's calendar, you misapply *Matt 24,* for that text has ZERO to do with the rapture of the church. Should you take the time to exegete the text, you'd find that to be true in short order. You THEN moved on to misapply *II Thess* as well. Your hermeneutic is sorely skewed. You're sadly disregarding the *CONTEXT* in passages, all in an effort to craft for a narrative...one that is simply not supported in the scripture. But all the best to you in your search for truth, *MARANATHA!*

Friends, it's really quite simple. Free will and predestination are perfectly compatible in the hands of a perfectly loving, just, and omniscient God. We only debate about it because this is something in the "we can't quite comprehend it" bucket. Finite and time-bound we can only perceive those who have accepted the Gospel, and those who have yet to. Pray without ceasing brothers.

Calvinism does IN FACT teach that ANYONE who puts their faith in Christ is saved. I don't think you understand Calvinism very well.

Stop projecting your non-biblical opinions based on your own limited understanding. Do you not present any convincing points to back your rambling. You are like this because you do not have good biblical training (obviously I can tell you didn’t go to seminary). You lack spiritual discernment. You miss the entire flow of the biblical timeline built on the foundation of Old Testament because you are Bible illiterate. I can bet my life you don’t completely understand Revelation. You don’t even know what moedim is! Usually those who not have good seminary training on end times and do not believe in Genesis 1-11 literally reject rapture. Humble yourself and study dispensationalism and pretribulation rapture because they are biblical. Stop picking and choosing scriptures to feed your own desire. You misunderstand the heart of God. This is something you must repent. Otherwise you will be shamed when you see God one day.

David Cloud in hammering imminence so hard demonstrates the typical pretrib assumption that the Bible teaches it. He says the pretrib rapture is "the only way you can have imminency." He and other pre-tribbers can't get it through their thick heads that the Bible does NOT teach the pretrib idea of imminence, and that the idea of the "any moment coming" is absolute myth that they are READING INTO certain passages. This is why you find Cloud proof texting in this video. He will never, ever, ever, ever, EVER actually exegete chapters like 2 Thessalonians 1 and 2, 1 Corinthians 15 or Matthew 24. He can't, and he knows it. It's absolutely sickening to see him and all other pre-tribbers claim that anyone interpreting the Bible literally will come to the conclusion of a pretrib rapture, when in reality the Bible states a POST tribulation rapture emphatically and repeatedly. The pretrib position is based entirely on preconceived ideas, circular reasoning and arguments from silence.

And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God. For true and righteous are his judgments: for *he hath judged the great whore* which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. {Revelation 19:1-2} ... Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb *is come* and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, *These are the true sayings of God* {Revelation 19:7-9}👈 ^ Describing events after Armageddon and the seven last plagues.

And I saw another angel ascending *from the east* having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, *till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads* {Revelation 7:2-3} (These are already sealed with the Holy Spirit, so this is not speaking of being born again.) “For as the lightning *cometh out of the east* and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” {Matthew 24:7} And, behold, *the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east* and his voice was like a noise of many waters: and the earth shined with his glory. {Ezekiel 43:2} And *the sixth angel* poured out his vial [plague] upon the great river Euphrates; and the water [support] thereof was dried up, *that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared* (And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, *to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty* "Behold, I come as a thief. *Blessed is he that watcheth and keepeth his garments* lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.") And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, *It is done* {Revelation 16:12-17}

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him *the buildings of the temple* And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, [question one] Tell us, when shall these things be? and [question two] what shall be the sign of thy coming, and [question three] of the end of the world? {Matthew 24:1-3} ... “Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” {Matthew 24:34} Jesus continued, “Heaven and earth *shall pass away* but my words shall not pass away." {Matthew 24:35} -- We have a second (or third) witness in the Gospel according to Luke. “But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and *wrath upon this people* And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and *shall be led away captive into all nations* and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, *until the times of the Gentiles* be fulfilled. And there shall be *signs* in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And *then shall they see* the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.” {Luke 21:23-28} -- We have a second (or third) witness in the Gospel according to Mark. “But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. *But* in those days, *after that tribulation* the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth [the first resurrection] to the uttermost part of heaven." {Mark 13:23-27} "after that tribulation" And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth [maketh intercession in judgment] for the children of thy people: and there shall be *a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation* even to that same time: and *at that time thy people shall be delivered* every one that shall be found written in the book. {Daniel 12:1} ...("whoso readeth, let him understand")

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious *appearing* of *the great God* and our Saviour Jesus Christ; {Titus 2:13} καὶ σωτήρ < "and Savior" is a conjunction/cumulative to the great God...

Without the church there is no need for a tribulation. The church will be the object of the tribulation. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, (the remnant church) and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, *which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ* {Revelation 12:17} Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near *in the valley of decision* {Joel 3:14} For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. {Ephesians 6:12} “And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.” {Matthew 24:6} For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. {1 Thessalonians 5:3}

Calvinism is awful. Blasphemous and anti-Biblical. God loves all people and has forgiven all people. Now we need to surrender, repent and believe, and if we do, he will grant us eternal life.

Hallrlujah, tell us the GOOD NEWS