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So what do you want to see in a story? I mean other than more butch characters. You said you don't want drama tropes or Hollywood/Billionaire tropes, but what would make you happy to see? Do you want to see one character pursuing the other aggressively? Flirting, trying to draw her out, peacocking a bit? I'm just curious. Also, why do you think there is a dearth of the type of writing that you like - is it because the market is looking for something else or that authors don't like to write it? Sorry, that is more questions than it is commiseration or feedback, but I think it's an interesting topic. I wonder if part of the issue is that people often want to read romance that is an escape for them (cue the whirlwind romance where the other is smitten from the start, the super powerful love interest, blah blah blah) and writers like to write what they consider to be a fantasy or escape, as well.

WHY TERE IS NO SARAH WATERS FINGERSMITH AHHHHHH

I really enjoyed Everybody in this Room Will Someday be Dead. I'm a former Catholic and I thought it was hilarious how she was trying to fake being Catholic. I have anxiety because I have a rare heart condition. I relate to living with anxiety and having related mental health issues because of my diagnosis. The humor can be dark at times, but that's my style. I listened to the audiobook which was good.

Highly recommend The Lesbian Review advanced search. You can seach for specific tropes, identities/gender presentation, plot, etc... it's really good :)

I've been reading a lot of these books and never thought about this. Nice discussion =) 🇧🇷

I am a lesbian and personally ONLY want to read WLW romance novels where both characters are attractive, not fat and feminine (and in straight or gay male romance novels I also want both to be attractive and fit). A lof of us are happy with perfect fictional environments where everyone looks like they could be a model. I read to escape reality, not to be in reality. If I want to see unattractive people, all I have to do is walk down the street. That being said, I do think there should be more options for anyone who wants a more realistic story. I think this need for something more real or diverse comes mostly from Gen Z readers so you will get those stories when your generation starts writing them.

Emily Austins second book “Interesting Facts About Space” is also so good!

Yes.. please make a video solely on audiobooks. We'd love that.

loved this kind of video it was really fun!!! id love to see more of them

a sunny book nook vlog! what a treat!

i agree. like, yes it is great to see representation of bi and pan lesbian relationships but it’s all i see. i don’t see just lesbian experiences. it feels to me like they have to have a way for men to matter to the characters which. side eyeing

I was thinking maybe it's all about internalised male gaze. 🤯

you should try baihe novels (jwqs, the dragon, fgep, ruzhui and some others) they're so good and i think you'll like it

My two favorite lesbians movies An incredibly true story of two girls in love Cloudburst

i would love to see more lifestyle and ugh ur library is so cute

I think lesbian story characters personalities just come out to be very flat?!

Se que este vídeo fue subido hace ya tiempo, y probablemente nadie vea mi comentario, además como sáfica Latinoamérica la experiencia tal vez sea diferente, pero igual quería decirlo. Como chica bisexual, siento que en la mayoría de los libros o historias en las que hay mujeres bi, antes de descubrir que les gustan las mujeres SIEMPRE necesitan salir primero con hombres y que un hombre en particular las haga sufrir para que se den cuenta de que les gustan las mujeres, como si necesitaramos primero "darnos cuenta de que los hombres no valen la pena" para enamorarnos de una mujer, NUNCA ANTES SIEMPRE ES DESPUÉS. Nunca tienen ninguna ex mujer y la mujer coprotagonista de la que se enamoran en la historia es LA ÚNICA mujer con la que estarán en toda su vida, como está fantasía frecuente que he notado en la comunidad lésbica-safica: "voltear la tortilla" (expresión que se usa acá que básicamente voltear a una heterosexual y volverlo gay, lo cual no tiene mucho sentido, pero bueno) y ser la primera y unica mujer en su vida, lo cuál es raro, e incluso bifobico y lesbofobico al mismo tiempo. No niego que esta sea la experiencia de algunas personas, pero no creo que sea la mayoría y tampoco lo más realista. Además de que a veces se refuerza está creencia de que en las relaciones sáficas "casi nunca son tóxicas" o que no se puede sufrir violencia porque las mujeres no son capaces de hacer eso, lo cual es extremadamente peligroso, porque invisibiliza a las lesbianas/sáficas que viven situaciones violentas en relaciones con otras mujeres. Siendo bisexual, puedo decir que la mayoría no necesitamos que un hombre impacte en nuestras vidas haciendonos sufrir para darnos cuenta de que nos gustan las mujeres, así como tampoco necesitamos que llegué la mujer de nuestra vida para darnos cuenta de quienes somos. Algunas lo "descubrimos" antes de siquiera haber tenido una interacción romantica y/o sexual con cualquier persona. En fin, exigimos representación lesbica, bisexual y sáfica en general BIEN HECHA.

Radclyffe, Kris Bryant, Jae, E.J. Noyes are the best lesbian authors I’ve read recently.

Outfit and makeup look on point today, thank you for sharing your thoughts on lesbian romance novels. I love historical romance both for the stakes and the fantasy of it all.

i would love more of this!!

omg yes that bothered me soo much about ashley herring blake's books!! its like lesbian is a bad word for her or something

this was such a fun video! (watched it while folding laundry and it made me feel like i was going on Exciting Outings instead lol) i really liked the combination of more vlog-style clips as well as just talking about your current reads :)

I'd love to know your opinion on Lies We Tell Ourselves by Robin Talley !!

Preach!

You've articulated something I've always known subconsciously, but have never really thought about before. Why am I a lesbian who doesn't like reading wlw fiction? Because it sucks. Those stories? They don't resonate with me at all. And as you were describing their shortfalls, I kept thinking: if not for lesbians, who are bored and disdainful and unsatisfied by their offerings, then who are these books even for?? And that's when it hit me: they're written for men (or perhaps it's only novels like this that are approved my men in publishing firms?) The same way so many adult films slant towards the male gaze, so too do these novels. Why are so many of these characters pan/bi? Because if they weren't, there would be fewer men in the story. The characters are never allowed to fully give men up, or live in that lesbian sphere where men aren't even thought about, because to a man looking in from the outside that doesn't feel realistic. These stories aren't FOR lesbians--if they were, they'd have chemistry and butch women and be drenched in queer ideology. Bit of a lightbulb moment for me, albeit a disappointing one lol

girl what lipstick are you wearing??

Oh, hi! You two are so cute 🥰Love this video xoxo

Shallow comment but this dress looks really good on you.

there's literally nothing better than going to bookshops with friends and frantically pointing out all the books you've read!! also so exciting to have a newly renovated library with all that art!!! but lol some rando shushed you, honestly homophobic

this is such a treat!

That's why I wrote a book about two LESBIANS. Enough of the bisexual with male EXs. Nothign against bisexual, i am one myself. but enough. enough with the "safic" word. Let's say LESBIAN more often

The preferred terminology among authors and readers has shifted from lesbian romance to sapphic romance over the last few years, though the publishers and booksellers still generally still classify it as lesbian romance. I'm a sapphic romance author, and I know a LOT of other authors through industry conferences &c. And I think sapphic romance is a better, more inclusive term. Bisexual/pansexual women exist. Among the under 30 crowd, they probably outnumber lesbians. Just because they've had relationships with men in the past, that doesn't mean they can't fall just as deeply in love with a woman. Even among lesbians, there are going to be male exes, because comphet and homophobia do their best to strangle our sexuality, and not everyone breaks through that at a young age. Half the lesbians I know kissed boys growing up. A few were married to men before they figured things out. Sexuality is messy and complicated for a lot of us, and I'm happy to see romance novels embrace that complexity. Not everyone has the luxury of being out and proud, even today. If that more inclusive sexuality isn't your jam, there's nothing wrong with that. A lot of sapphic romance novels pair up openly lesbian protagonists, even today. It can often be hard to tell from the blurb, though. As for me, I'm so starved for good sapphic romance that I'll take any representation I can get. It's always been a small market, and most of it is pretty bad. I'm not dumping on sapphic romance specifically - most fiction of ANY genre or category, including literary fiction, is pretty bad. So I'm thrilled whenever I find something great. The m/m market is much bigger, but it's not a great comparison point. Like 90% of it is written by women for women. Don't ask me why; I don't get it at all. I enjoy stories about out and proud lesbians finding each other. Of course I do. I also enjoy stories about women exploring and coming to terms with their sexuality, even if it's complicated. I enjoy characters who are butch, femme, or anywhere in between, of any (adult) age, ethnicity, body type, etc. The queer community where I live has an awful lot of diversity, and I like seeing that on the page. I try to write that diversity too, to the extent that I can do so truthfully and respectfully. Most of my protagonists are lesbians because I find it really tough to relate to an attraction to men, but some are bi. One even wound up with a man. Hardest sex scenes I've ever tried to write.

yes i’m so obsessed with garth nix i’ve probably read all the abhorsen books like 3 times and lirael specifically like 5 times…my comfort read go to…and totally agree w the robin hobb comparison

Agree with your assessment about Garth Nix's books. I re-read the Abhorsen Trilogy recently and Clariel, and the prose felt so nostalgic to read and so different from how a lot of recent fantasy are written now. I haven't read Goldenhand yet, but I think what I liked about Nix's writing is that even though his books are directed towards teen readers and feature young adult characters, the plots and characterization feel mature and he has his characters rise to the occasion. It's like he treats his audience seriously in the same way he treats his characters seriously.

So happy to see a new video from you!

my gf and I are in a Friends of Dorothy book club and 2/3rds of the books we read together are this highly lackluster flavor of book with no real lesbians. Every time we meet for a new book there are like 4 to 6 of us that are just waiting to talk about how lacking these books are. And I love reading. I love a wide variety of books. But CHRIST, I would rather an author not comment on the appearance of their lesbian characters than give me two straight-adjacent girlies that just wanna have a little fun and feel their feelings one time. I don't like F/M spice, but I do often prefer it to the lesbian romance books I read BECAUSE I can at least do my own mental gymnastics to imagine lesbian characters in a F/M novel but I can't just imagine good writing.

Coming back decades after to say that i agree with you. Could you make a video about Alexandria Bellefleur books?

i’ve spent the past year trying to rediscover my love for reading and searching for novels where i can see myself in the characters but it’s been so hard because of how superficial so many sapphic books feel. time and time again i get tired of a book because the chemistry and the story just doesn’t feel real. the only “sapphic” book i’ve found that i genuinely enjoyed was gideon the ninth because it treats its romance as a support for the true plot, rather than a marketing scheme to appeal to queer audiences.

they hate to see a butch winning

I read way too many wlw romance novels and so many of them are just one indistinct book in my memory, and I agree with many of these takes. I also dislike Bellefleur, Wilsner and McQuiston, even though I'm okay with Herring Blake. I also really liked She Drives Me Crazy. Recs for people who might want something a bit different: I would recommend 6 Times We Almost Kissed as a very emotionally powerful/real novel, but lower on the chemistry side. Haley Cass is also good, I think specially on characters, although she writes often longer books and depending on the book the chemistry could be improved. I specially liked On the Same Page even, though I think the "past" flashbacks/storyline is rather silly. For chemistry my fave will always be Truth and Measure by Roslyn Sinclair, but it's very slow burn and the ice queeness of it initially relies on a boss/employee dynamic. It's sad for me tho that my fav butch character has to come from a sapphic fantasy book (C. L. Clark's The Unbroken), because indeed there are not many in regular romance books. And I also dislike the Lee Winter book you show because I also don't like hollywood romances, but most of her other books are pretty good. I would say though, she usually def mixes a more mystery/thriller type story with a romance (which I love, but it may not be what everyone's looking for). I think She Gets the Girl is also good on the more YA side. Two of my sapphic faves which I personally wouldn't classify as romance are Forgive Me If I've Told You This Before and We Were Promised Spotlights. Also, sometimes you just gotta go straight for it and read erotica lol. Megan O'Brien is known for that.

i’ve had a similar issue with baihe, all the translated works have one of the girls disguised as a man for the longest time and that’s how they fall in love and it’s so frustrating bc comparing it to danmei the men are allowed to love eachother from the very beginning as they are

What you're describing here sounds similar to issues with the boys love (BL) genre, which is mlm romance usually written by and for straight women.

First of all, this is a well done analysis. You have a clear argument that I can fully understand. When you compare the book to the movie in this way, the book seems much more feminist. And perhaps it is. However, I would like to suggest looking at it from a slightly different angle. It would have been perfectly possible to adapt the book including the introduction and the unreliable narrator, in a way Wes Anderson might have done it. However, Lanthimos decided not to do so. Was it his intention to adapt a feminist book into a movie, only to make it deliberately unfeminist? I can see some parallels with Wes Anderson's films, especially in the fact that in both filmmakers' works, the characters don't really behave or talk like real people. In Anderson's films, this is always justified by a narrator who is shown at the beginning, which gives them a cheerful, fairy-tale tone. The lack of such a narrator makes Poor Things feel unsettling or disturbing instead. I can imagine that as a woman, one might feel disgusted by the presented image on feminism. But I can assure you that, at least for me personally, as a man, I feel just as disgusted. And in my interpretation, this is intentional. The absurdity of the setting and the dialog already implies that this plot is not a realistic portrayal of anything. Even the happy ending of the movie leaves you with many questions about the morality of the characters. Why did they transplant a goat's brain into the general and not Godwin's? Even though Max McCandles was nicer than Duncan Wedderburn and the General, didn't he still take advantage of a child's naivety? Godwin and Max talking about the wedding for the first time doesn't make either of them seem particularly ethical. In general, men don't come off very well in the movie. While the book takes a very openly feminist stance with Victoria's letter, the movie invites you to come up with your own thoughts and communicates emotionally that what is shown is wrong, rather than explicitly. The plot is absurd and takes you off guard so that you can then think about feminist issues in a new way. I read in the comments here that Lanthimos supposedly took the nuance out of the book and only left the sexually explicit parts in. However, me and my male friends all agreed that we couldn't have imagined sex scenes with Emma Stone any less erotic and I'm also sure that Emma Stone wouldn't have made the movie if she thought it was porn. Lanthimos' films deconstruct the social behavior of people, and in this one the film deals with the subject of sexuality. However, this does not mean that he reduces the female experience to sexuality. Just because it depicts perverted behavior in a neutral way doesn't mean that the viewer should feel neutral and certainly doesn't mean that the male viewer thinks what is shown is right. This is precisely the nuance of the movie, which displays a subtle feminism, while the book presents a less ambiguous, overt feminism. And I can get a lot out of both. This is my personal perspective on the subject and is in no way intended to invalidate your analysis.

Wow! I learned a lot. I'm coming from the perspective of writer who wants to be "inclusive." You made a lot of fascinating points. Right now as I write the big brouhaha re on screen representation revolves around Season 3 of Netflix series Bridgerton. They are planning to genderswap a story that originally involved a man and change him to a woman so that they can have a "sapphic" romance. Yeah, no one really uses the L word. It's either "queer" or "sapphic." It's hard to know at this point exactly how the showrunners will re-write everything. But in the comment section where people are ranting in anger because their favorite story is now going to change significantly, quite a few people say they don't want a stereotypical queer romance between women. They want and expect the women to be girly girl. I'm upset because they cast a black woman. This is regency era historical romance. Shonda Rhimes has already trotted out Black women that fit into stereotypical roles. But again so many women clap and cheer and repeat over and over again how "gorgeous" the black woman is. The other part of couple is a newlywed and soon to be widow. A lot of people in the comments explain that the soon to be widow is comphet and didn't know she was gay and so the story will be about her awakening while she is also morning her husband. This convoluted. And I wonder how is this remaking of what was once a straightforward hetero romance representative of the lesbian community? Why didn't they just create a new character and build a lesbian romance that is truthful? Maybe you can comment about that. The whole world is talking about this.

not to be ‘judge a book by its cover’ but most of these ‘bad’ books have such ugly covers, real people on the cover is awful idc and that recent trend of the couple in that certain artstyle (eg one last stop, rwrb, etc) just gives wattpad, like i either wont read it at all or expect the least from it

personally, i also feel like independent of if the characters are both feminine presenting or not, there's always one that is just... written as a man?? women can be outwardly masculine while keeping their female identity but it's hard to find a book that does it correctly. i've read fanfiction that is 100 times better, and that don't diminish the 'masculine' woman as the controlling, weirdly toxic, non communicative partner who lacks depth. being a butch or just a masculine woman in general does not = to automatic role of the protector, whose only job is to comfort the female main character without recieving that same comfort back. honestly i just feel as if with lesbian romance it's always 50/50: you either get two extremely feminine characters, or you get a feminine main character and a woman love interest written as a man. there's no in between

I did not understand Her body and other parties 😭 I dnf it 🥲

watching this with last night at the telegraph club on my bookshelf-moving it up on my tbr!!!

I would love to know what you thought about Exciting Times if you've read it.