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My understanding is that there were ICING conditions which may have been beyond the ATR's capabilities to keep ahead of .. the Pitot Tubes could have been ice-plugged, giving inaccurate readings .. iced over wings .. loss of lift .. nose-high flare into stall .. it's also possible the cargo loading was "tail heavy" [still within Weight & Balance, just favoring the tail] - a shift in weight .. although I'm leaning toward heavy icing with loss of lift, over-reaction into stall ..

All us military guys know AOA.Navy guys live and die by it.But commercial cockpits dont have a AOA indicator. I remember the stick shakker in the B727. I remember doing stall recoveries in the sim thinking to myself "why do they7 just stick an AOA indicator. Their teaching stay out of stick shaker. It was all feel. Nothing on the instrument panel to really give me a clue what my "true" aerodynamic situation is

Non aviator here. I've (more of less) been able to follow along. Question: At very; very low speed; how does the rudder maintain effectiveness? Doesn't its authority rely on a high speed airflow?

1470 subscribers?!. I feel lucky to be here so early, this channel WILL be big.

looks like icing and the potential complications from it.

Others have also reported severe icing in the area at the time and flight level. This plane also had hydraulic problems and a tail strike on landing in March and had to be repaired.

Regardless of how close a sim is to reality, there is still a huge gap when sh!t happens in real life. You do have an aviation acrobatic background which the guys flying the plane, very likely, didn't have. It's been reported that the Captain requested a clearance to lower his FL but the request was denied by ATC due to some heavy traffic going on below. Instead of litterally blaming the pilots , show some respect.

I’ve been looking for someone to enter in details because I suspected there was some human failure either responding to the icing or to the stall, but most aviation youtubers in Brazil refrain from actually discussing the possibilities, all with the “oh let’s wait for investigations” discourse, which is frustrating for the curious mind. Thank you SO much for being absolutely straight about your opinions. Amazing video, even better attitude. Subscribed!

10:00 that immediately made me think of AirFrance flight 447

Thank you very much! That are indeed very good Points, in fact the best I´ve heard so far about this Crash. It seems to be that this Crash would be not explicable without looking on what the Pilots were doing.

Great report and done with class.

What’s unique about this one is how so many people not only witnessed it but had the wherewithal to pull out their phones and record, because it started falling from so high. There are literally at least four different videos of this.

Flew with you guys twice back in 2001. Absolutely amazing experience! Thank you! Best of luck to your future, I wish I was in a position to buy or help in some way. Sure would be sweet to have my own Marchetti SF260! I'd go out every day just to pull G's... =]

Hello Michael! First time viewer. Great stuff. Although I am NOT (yet) a pilot BUT have been around aviation, airplanes and flying for a long time, you raise two issues that still confuse me. Regarding the AOA, is not the maximum AOA exceeded if you go into a loop? So, how is it that the wing will only stall at one AOA? My understanding of AOA works in a moving car. I stick my hand out a moving car window and as I move my hand into a more vertical position, the wind pushes my hand up (flying) UNTIL, at a certain point (AOA?), my hand starts acting like a wall and not a wing and collapses. Also, can you help me understand how/why the torque of a right-spinning engine (from the POV of the pilot), say a Rolls-Royce Merlin, causes the airplane to pull left? I thought the torque pulled the plane in the direction of the spin. Thanks!!!

Sad Case 😢😢 Great info bro RIP to All 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽

On a turboprop, can propeller pitch be reversed on only one engine, in this case the left, to cause enough reverse thrust to reduce the yaw enough to overcome the p factor and induce an opposite yawing force (to the right) which could stop the spin about the z axis? Then push nose forward to get the wing flying again?

Very clear explanation Cpt. I would have thought that ATR has de icing system and icing alert for crew + automatic attitude stabilization. It looks to me from the vid on media that engines were shut down + in that event the crew should have pushed nose down very quickly (speed of reaction is paramount here). Have they tried late or there was control failure as well which resulted in this terrible and unique situation of a flat spin with no power available and late reaction to early mitigate entry into the spin (which was not flat at the begining. RIP to all passengers and the crew. A pilot.

I felt for him…he was looking a little green in the gills. I would be too. Acrobatics are not my cup of tea.

Where’s the value in this video? It’s long af and has less to offer than Juan Brownes 5 min overview… no wonder channel has less than 2k subs

The plane crashed next to where I live. Such a chocking tragedy...Thanks for the explanations. Now It is really clear what might have happened to that plane. We live in a hot country. Ice formation is not a common thing here. And exaclty on the day of the accident the weather had changed dramatically in a matter of hours. Maybe the poor pilots were not aware of the rare situation they were facing... May them rest in peace.

Heartfelt condolences to the families of the victims of this crash. 🙏 Pray that Lord Narasimha grant the families strength to bear their truly hard losses. 🙏 This video is quite a good one, coming from an experienced aerobics pilot. I've been a passenger quite often on the ATR 72 in India where I live. Thankfully, I'd never experienced anything even remotely like the Brazilian flight. I never believed icing could go so far as to create a dangerous sequence leading to an irrecoverable loss of control. And if that icing could've been on the propeller blades as the video hints at, can imagine the chaos triggered. ATR would do well to learn a lot from this accident. Even if in principle, the pilots hadn't paid that extra attention to the icing warning.

Let's be real here. The ATR plane is just not up to safety standards and should be discontinued. It has the worst reputation out if any plane & if it can't handle ice it shouldn't be used to safely transport people.

Disrespectful video. A lot of assumptions here in the second part of the video (you lost me at the iPad part.,.) Disappointing because the investigations are ongoing and pilot is not here anymore to defend himself. I expected more respect honestly.

How many people in the comments are here as a direct result of getting clowned in DCS (or something similar) for the last time?

This might seem like a stupid question - but why doesn't the ATR have contra-rotating propellors?

Thank you for sharing your experience as to WTH happened with this incredibly sad aviation tragedy. The sadness from this accident was overwhelming to me the first time I saw the video. I wanted answers like we all do & your wealth of knowledge & integrity to those affected helps us process & avoid these situations in the future.

How come you know the icing condition and still they fly. This is non sense

Aero Carribean Flight 883 Crash is very similar to this one. Check it out

this is similar to what happen to the air france flight where the co-pilot kept the stick back all the way down. And this plane was in the clouds so the co-pilot wouldnt know they were nose up. This video should be required watching for ATR pilots, most people can understand how to recover from a stall. I keep hearing that the flatspin was unrecoverable but in this video it shows that with proper technique you might have a chance, a 1 percent chance of recovery is better than the alternative.

I recognized the model you were using..flown and worked on that bird years ago…thanks again! Keep up the good work!

Hey Mike! I knew and worked with your dad, and I retired 5 years ago out of your same base. Good vid and explanation! You and Juan Browne keep upmthe good work!

This video only has 15K views??? Not sure how I got here but if this gentleman taught people to fly, they are probably good pilots! Amazing! RIP to all lost. 🇧🇷

This crash has all the hallmarks of the autopilot being on when it should have been off. So many aircraft icing crashes are related to the autopilot adding to the confusion in the cockpit. This aircraft had layers of protection to avoid this crash yet sometimes and too often it's the automated systems that just make things worse.

Great impression as a Pilot! 👊👊

Very professional looking channel. Assuming your sub count is gonna “take off”

Once the spin becomes fully developed in a twin with wing mounted engines, it’s power out, ailerons neutral, rudder opposite, elevator down. Icing aside, it’s almost impossible to recover. The centrifugal force exceeds the aerodynamic force. It’s damn near impossible to recover…. Flight recorder will be telling…

I agree that one possibility is that they were flying on autopilot ( AP ) into the severe icing condition. As the AP compensated for the loss of true airspeed , it would advance the auto-throttles AND also trim the aircraft NOSE UP to maintain altitude. As the aircraft reached critical AOA it activated the stick pusher into a nose down attitude and the AP would have shut off ( by design ) as it could no longer maintain attitude and altitude. This could have caused the sudden nose down situation shown on flight data. The AP would have left the aircraft controls in a very high trim UP position. The amount of pitch up can be quite dramatic for the flight crew it they were not expecting it. This could have caused the sudden climb and they could not bring the nose down in time to prevent a stall/spin condition. Once you flat spin a twin engine prop plane there is usually very little you can do to keep it flying. The main reason is that you will not have enough airflow over the rudder to stop the spin. If you can't stop the spin , you can't recover..........Condolences to all the family and friends of the victims.

Stall

Hi! Your explanations are great. Respectful and focussed under each issue happening under an icing episode. We didnt have til this time a so rich explanation in how to avoid this accident like yours here in Brazil. One thing that bugs me, about the Opeartional aspect (and also as a Market issue) is the lack of overall experience in operating ATR aircraft here in Brazil. There were many small, regional airlines operating this kind of aircraft, but not many mainline, big carriers or even affiliated/subsidiaries of mainliners operating the ATRs. These aircraft were quickly dumped in favor of bigger flyers when the lines grew up. Why am I discussing this issue? This VoePass company was rescued by a mainline for providing more or less regional services around the approx same market as before. They operated ATRs before, but as they previously were an independent, small regional carrier with some interline agreements with the big boys, they were on their own operational-wise. And they were good at it. But now, with this new organizational culture of feeding traffic to a mainline being his main mission, maybe they threw some caution out of the wind in favour to deliver the service to the central hub in time and with the shortest path. Alas, Brazil being a little more warmer than other locations with longer, harsher winters, generally we have a culture of all issues and cautions related to winter season operations tend to be overlooked. Maybe it should not be the case for airliners. I work for a port, so I take my duties because water gets rough and the wind can upset our operations (and let us a little bit unconfortable), but the water will not freeze up - which is not the case for the air. At this very week, right now we are under a "cold snap", intense cold for our standards, and some caution around cool- and cold-season navigation would be better advised for the air operators. Let alone for these prop birds, that are so special around wintery seasons... May the heavens open up to fill the hearts of the people who lost their friends, parents, daughters, sons, spouses with grace and peace. And lets pray for all the steps to be followed up by the investigating authorities to allow a safer air transport to all of us.

This crash reminds me a lot of Aero Carribean Flight 883. It also encountered icing, stalled and entered a flat spin just like this plane did. You can find an animation of the crash on youtube easily.

46:10 I watched a video that could explain why the procedure to lower the nose of an ATR-72 is to apply full throttle. This is because the engines are located above the aircraft's center of gravity, which creates a pitching moment that tends to push the nose down. Ref: czcams.com/video/GrUJm_rSXy0/video.htmlsi=Nz4-FYvrjqrkry9_&t=1166

Might it have been possible to use reverse thrust on the starboard engine to arrest the rotation & enable a pushover?

Aviation Herald said on Sunday that this aircraft had a tail strike Mar. 2024. This caused massive structural failure, taking aircraft out of service for 4 months. Flight control failure? Also had AC problems, structural damage causing failure?

czcams.com/video/NWV9w48rDHY/video.html According to the latest news, ANAC allowed the plane to fly without recording specific data on the BB for 18 months. Considering CNN got the right info, 8 of these crucial data is missing from the device.

This is going to come back on the blame of the airline dispatchers and pilots knowingly accepting a flight plan that included icing per the published SIGMET hours earlier. No excuse for this. Total human error on many levels.

Turbo prop pilot here. (Not ATR). couple of points: If the autopilot was engaged, and trimming this could have masked an increasing rearward trim as ice built up and un noticed speed decrease until it ran out of trim l the forces became too much resulting in the AP disconnected from from stick shaker activation. This would have resulted in a sudden pitch change that you mentioned. Also, stick pushers are usually only activated if both left and right AOA triggers the shakers and not from the pitot. The ATR being T tail is also prone to deep stall (super stall) phenomenon. Hence why it has a stick pusher. If did get into a deep stall that is then unrecoverable no matter what what action is taken.

Thats an amazing instrutional vídeo. An experient pilot being honest and open minded about The facts and dont conjectures. Here in Brazil, we dont have The same comprometiment. Please, Sir. Try make contact with The families here. At least to show your perspectiv between the investigation. Because they are suffering without information and plurals point of views

what it seems like to me is that icing of the sensors (AoA, airspeed) put the aircraft in an increasing altitude decreasing airspeed situation without the pilots being aware

Look a nother one who has something to say to lift up the likes on his cancel to earn some money over the suffering from the family's who have lost there loved ones

i heard there were 60 doctors/scientists on that flight going to give a talk revealing the new data they found to fight certain medical conditions - and this would negate the use of medication...which is a big no no in Big PharmaLand... not sure if that is true but shouldn't be too difficult to find out for an investigative journalist - which I am not.