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Mary quite literally said that if it came down to a choice between their 2 countries, she would choose hers. And somehow no one ever bitches about Mary putting her country first, but when Francis does it, it's bad? Why is that? And Francis quite literally left France at a severe disadvantage by sending his French troops to Scotland to save Mary's country from a rebellion, and he did this AFTER he found out Mary was planning on running off with her lover and abandoning their marriage completely. And can anyone tell what the alliance between France and Scotland EVER did to benefit France at all? The answer is nothing. And anyone that says Mary always respected Francis as the King of France, and never did anything to undermine him is on crack. It's not that people don't blame Francis for his actions. It's that we can understand what drove him to make those choices, and we know they were choices he didn't want to make, and that it pained him to make them. He struggled with them, he agonized over them, he was desperately looking for ways to get out from under Narcisse. And then we also saw him show genuine remorse and accept all the blame. He didn't try to make excuses. And we also saw him willing to do everything and anything he could do for Mary, including letting her have an affair right under his nose, with his protection, if that is what would make her happy. Francis was willing to be selfless, while all Mary could think do was become more and more selfish as she took up with one of Francis' relatives, AGAIN. I would love to know why there is so much pearl clutching over Francis having sex once, while him and Mary were not together, with one of Mary's friends, while its perfectly OK for Mary to declare love to 2 of Francis' actual relatives (one of those also being HIS best friend). I understand that Mary had been through something very traumatic, and life altering. And I totally understood her needing to create some distance between her and Francis, and her needing time to heal, and time to regain her trust in him. But I will never be onboard with the Conde crap. I have to have an affair to heal is one of the grossest writing choices to a woman that was raped that I've ever watched. And Mary's choices became increasingly selfish and stupid, as she put 2 countries, including her own, in peril, so she could run off with her lover and live in fantasy land. And she only is pulled back from that choice by reality smacking her right in the kisser when her country is in desperate peril, and its only the resources of the husband she disdains that will save her country. And let us also not leave out, because I think it's important, what sent Narcisse down the road of vengeance. It was Mary, and her stupidly and sloppily executing his son because she couldn't control her temper. I understand why she did that, and he was a scumbag, but I think its BS that Mary never reflects on the roll she also played in how everything went down.

I wouldn't necessarily say he deserves better then her, but what I would say is that he deserves better FROM her during this time of the show. She's just cold and mean and unpleasant, and I don't think its warranted. Yes, even taking into consideration that she went though a terrible trauma. Where did the Mary go that was so sad that she was letting Francis go because she loved him and "one of us should be happy". Apparently she decided at some point, "Eff you, I am the only one that should be happy!" A couple of episodes later, and Mary treats him like complete garbage because he raises accurate concerns about her barely concealed affair with his cousin (and rival to his throne), and apparently has the audacity to say he wouldn't be overly enthusiastic to save her lover.

Interesting observation. It does make one thing if there was some symbolism involved.

😂😂😂

That’s very true, her mother protected her and she took the responsibility to rule Scotland so mary could be safe at French court

@@jeanniemoskal4270 Mary never had to deal with what her mother and other really involved monarchs had to. For a woman, back then, rape was something that happened and should be punished, but it was something that with time, healing would happen. Mary of Guise wasn't told by Mary right away, so how could Mary's mother have known? Mary's accusation that she was just a pawn in her mother's lust for power was grossly unfair mainly since that is what royals knew themselves to be. They had a JOB and had to do it well for the sake of millions. Mary drove me nuts this season mainly since Mary would not LET UP on the people who WANTED to help her out. Catherine, Mary of Guise, even FRANCIS kept telling her the realities of their way of life. So really, this had nothing to do with any kind of bullshit 'feelings' that Mary had. Mary of Guise was NEVER negligent of Mary, she just had to take broader things into consideration.

Come now. It's the 21st century. We can acknowledge that two women had a point. Mary had her own problems. If you can't tell which one I'm talking about, that's my point.

True, she really loved him, but it was just too much for her to handle. Have to watch your husband have a baby with your best friend, and live in the same castle with you, while you are trying so hard to get pregnant with so many pressure from two countries, it is not easy at all. The rape was bad really bad, but was not the only thing. She had so much in her plate. She made mistakes ofc, but I can understand her the same way Francis did.

Not quite true actually. Marie of Guise travelled to France in 1550 and spent some time with Mary at the French court before returning to Scotland (via England) in 1551.

Responsibilities to their countries isn't what is causing the rift in this scene though. Mary's desire to take Francis cousin as her lover is.

His love for her was really deep and so forgiving, too! Their story is painful at times but ends well in large part due to the depth of his love. I loved both reunions; on earth and particularly the heavenly reunion! (note: Catherine refers to Francis's love for Mary as "relentless". That fits for me. He just never stops loving her.)

@@debb481 yessss well said friend! I really hate how Mary treated Francis with conde.but how he just forgave her and truly looked to the future and even gave his life for hers.Like Lord I pray my husband is similar to Francis

That was Francois & Mary short-sight, they should’ve been on it.

@@EMPuello87 Well in reality you can't really blame them. They were married for little more than two years before Fancis died and in that time definitely tried for an heir as Mary had a pseudopregnancy. They just didn't have enough time as Francis died so young.

Well Mary’s son in real life James I and IV was king of England, Scotland and Ireland. But yeah if she and Francis had a son then their son could’ve ruled over 4 kingdoms.

Unlikely the English hated the french very much during that time they would not want england to be overtaken by a french king even if he shared blood with one of there recent kings Elizabeth would not have named that child her heir.

@hafeez asif Well, it really didn't matter whether Elizabeth I. named him her heir - he'd have a claim on the throne anyway as descendant of Margaret Tudor, and there was no person alive with a better claim on the throne. It's not like the cases where there were multiple claimants, and it could've been argued whose claim was better (as was the case with Mary and Elizabeth themselves who both had a claim and argued theors was the stronger claim). It was out of the question fornall of Europe, that Mary and her descendants were the only and rightful heirs, should Elizabeth I. die without issue. The only way to change that would've been for Elizabeth I. to marry and have children of her own. Until she did that, Mary and her descendants remained in the line of succession and Elizabeth's rightful heir, no matter what she thought about it.

Ok ? First of all the only woman he slept with while they were together was olivia second he realised he made a mistake by sleeping with Lola and regretted third mary literally cheated on him not one time but two times and Francis had every right to be hurt and mad at her

They've both said horrible things to each other so that points kinda moot, they're young royalty they're gonna clash sometimes. Francis didn't 'cheat' with olivia because even though they were engaged there were no romantic feelings yet, or sworn loyalty (on his end on both and sworn loyalty on Mary's). Mary was literally marrying his brother during the whole Lola thing so safe to say there were broken up.

It seems to me that they both bear responsibility for their marriage getting to this point though I also think Mary's behavior has recently been pretty bad. But these clips attract the (Mary) haters. Elsewhere in the Reign community you'll find a more balanced assessment of Mary and Francis; comments showing that very often people see Francis more like you do and blame him as much or more than Mary (and there's a lot less rage toward Mary). As a Frary fan, Im simply pleased that they soon forgive one another and reunite twice, on earth and, so beautifully, in heaven, too!

I don't recall Francis kissing and engaging with Mary's brother, or slinging it around with her Chief rivals, Elizabeth, or dispossessing her of her claim and inheritance... But your right, he's totally the bad guy and sweet doe-eyed Mary can do no wrong and is practically perfect in every way...oh wait, that's Mary Poppins!

He was with Olivia, before they were a thing. He slept with Lola as a single man. Mary was engaged to his brother and he thought he was betrayed. He lost everything at this point. It was bad, but it was just a solace. Can't be even compared to Mary and Conde.

It speaks volumes, she was usually ok with a woman's touch she didn't shy away but she doesn't feel safe with her mother at all. That's such a sad existence not to feel safe with the one person you should feel the safest with.

@@KrazyKendra290 why did she feel afraid? I haven’t watched the show in a few years

@@avascott3104 she was raped being touched by anyone was very hard for a time especially with men. It was just extremely sad to see this reaction with her mother it's obvious she doesn't feel sage or comfortable with her. :( poor Mary

@@KrazyKendra290 that wasn’t true in her real life, Mary adored her mom and she confided in her for everything, and her mother visited her one time in France and didn’t returned because she had be in Scotland

True but Francis also did many stupid things that drover actions. Their relationship was toxic but mostly on Francis’ end. Mary was just sometimes too sensitive but he was plain toxic

@@kennakellon8852 it was toxic and intense mostly because of Narcisse. Because he was blackmailing not only Francis but Catherine and Mary as well. He didn’t want Mary to know because he feared she would be in danger. One wrong move and they would’ve been tried for regicide and attempted regicide

@@kennakellon8852 Not true. Francis was not toxic. Your accusations against Francis are absolutely unfair. He did those stupid things because Narcissus was blackmailing him.

@@user-vp5jq9um2y so he locked her in a tower because narcisse blackmailed him or because he didn’t want Mary to go? When Francis does something (especially for his country) he expects her to understand and yells at her when she doesn’t like she’s a petulant child. When she does something for her country, he calls her reckless and when she almost got away, he locked her up. He got upset that Mary got drunk and had a drunken kiss with bash (after he was looking over Mary’s feeling and concerns and wants when it came to his mistress) and slept with her again, expecting Mary to forgive him after a simple apology and beg, but when she slept with conde after being raped, he though of her as an adulterous whore and couldn’t stand to look at her. I understand that Mary also has her toxic moments, but to say that he’s not toxic at all after I have just a FEW examples of how he is is a bit ridiculous. Hope that didn’t come out rude, I’m merely trying to get my point across

@@kennakellon8852 1. Francis locked Mary in the tower for her safety. Otherwise, she would have gone to Scotland, fallen into a trap and would have died. 2. I also didn't like that Francis slept with Olivia. It was an unsuccessful attempt to forget Mary. 3. Francis did not consider Mary a whore after she cheated on him with Conde. He himself allowed Mary to meet with Conde. Another thing is that Mary agreed to flee to Scotland with her lover. By fleeing to Scotland, she would humiliate Francis in front of all of Europe. Now this is a real betrayal.

But don’t forget Mary was raped so it excuses her from those actions 🙄

@@NorthernCatt To some degree at least, it does. A rape like that( in front of other men and with the fear of a gang rape) is life changing and could affect both emotions and clear thinking for months or longer. People tend to minimize the impact of it because it doesnt fit their narrative of how awful Mary is. Interesting how her behavior changed so much right after her rape.....

he forgave her quickly because he knew he would not last long

Well that’s heartbreaking…

Yes, but he was dying. I imagine when you don’t have much time left, you would tend to let a lot of things go. He didn’t want to spend the time he had left at odds with the person he loved most. If he wasn’t dying? I’m not sure.

That was a recurring theme with this show though. No one was ever really allowed to retain any anger at Mary for anything. Even Catherine. Francis forgives Mary way too quickly for ripping away his birthright in season 1, and being the cause of a rift between him and his brother. Francis forgives Mary way too quickly for hiding the knowledge that Lola was pregnant with his child, and working with Lola to keep him from every knowing the truth. Francis forgives Mary too quickly for creating a diplomatic mess by sloppily murdering the son of Narcisse, and allowing Francis to be blindsided with the knowledge in the middle of his court because she neglected to mention it. And ultimately, Francis forgives way too quickly for all things Conde. And yet I read so often how Mary was in some way the more forgiving in this partnership.

@@VanessaFuller-sn7wvTHIS!!! exactly how I felt watching the show! It’s comical how the producers tried to make Mary the main character when clearly Francis outshined her and he became the main character. Which is why his death hurt so much. She was just too insufferable to watch. No wonder the show got canceled after Francis died.

Many people who watch the show, not myself nor the majority of folks here, do blame Francis for most of this couple's problems!They use his early behavior to excuse her actions. They are both at fault in different ways, imo, but Mary's affair bothers me more because it is much more involved than any of his dalliances. She is also colder to him than he ever is to her. I do believe that trauma from her rape factors in here, though. Bottom line, both bear some responsibility for the problems in their marriage. Thank goodness they are able to overcome them and reunite with such love!

He was basically begging her not to let him go. He even tried to find an excuse but Mary didn't want to be with him. I really hate this part of the plot. Like why??? Also, when Francis does it, it's cheating but when Mary does it it's romance

And Mary was planning and plotting to run off to Scotland with Conde. Far worse.

I am mainly more with Francis for most of s2 but I think its important to remember Mary's pain. A need for escape from painful reminders would factor in to her choices re conde. She not only had been raped but she had a miscarriage, too, and Francis was distant with her, and lied, because of the blackmail. She also had to deal with his child living close by while feeling inadequate as a wife and queen because she is childless. Add these painful events together-awful for her!! And it makes sense that she would have a desire to escape from it all, especially the memories.

@@debb481 agree

@@debb481 It was just too much for her to handle. She just want to feel alive and heal. I also understand Mary.

Francis thinks her unloving behavior is because of the trauma from her rape (which irl would last months) and that's what the writers intended; that her trauma explain her affair and intense anger with him. I dont agree with their story line here but it is what they presented to us.

@@debb481 I understand that such situation do have traumatic effects and I don't blame her for not loving Francis and finding happiness in other.. As it's fine because she can't force herself to love Francis who she indirectly blames and I can empathize and understand to some extent... But what angers me isn't her affair but how it is presented. Like she was trying to flee with conde and leave France even when her husband was supportive of her. Such situation can harm Francis and his reign too which she knew . Like dude I get you're heart is broken and need healing but you still have brain.. What pissed me off is her utter selfishness and ungratefulness. I can tolerate that whatever affair she had but not such intentional ignorance of others feeling which she did . Wow I wrote a lot..but yeah it's just poor way of presenting that ruined it for me.

@@iannaadonis I agree re the writers taking her anger with francis too far. Her lack of thought for others and ill treatment of Francis were hard to watch. Even A. Kane, who played Mary, had concerns with Mary's treatment of Francis at times in s2 because she knew Mary really loved him. She said this couple were always intended to be "soulmates". (Note: re Scotland, I feel like the fact that she backed out of the Scotland plans is really important. Blaming her for something she didn't do makes no sense to me.)

Yes I think the same

She loved and never stopped loving Francis, so much so that when she had to choose, she chose Francis and not the Earl, and she could have it all, Scotland, the Earl, and marry him (Francis himself tells her this). I believe that love is not something perfect, it has its ups and downs and despite any circumstances it remains intact in the end just like the love of Mary and Francisco <3

@@carolinecosta3755 And she was hurting a lot at the time. Her emotions had to be chaotic after both a rape and a miscarriage.

Of course you'd never understand, you wasn't sexually assaulted and traumatized for a long period of time

@@ITEEZ- Hiw do you know? You know nothing about me, as I know nothing about you. In any case, this is fiction. We judge characters and feel how we do about them based on their actions on screen and how well the entire scenario is written and acted. IMO, Reign failed miserably in this plot line, and the very fact that so many viewers, not just myself, found it difficult to maintain sympathy for Mary as her actions grew more callous and selfish and cruel and stupid is proof of that. I believe 99% of viewers really wanted to be on Mary’s side, but damn, this season made it so hard. And if her trauma was meant to be the explanation of it all, well there are ways to write that so that’s it’s evident for all. And I don’t care what anyone says, using rape and trauma to justify an affair and a stupid love triangle that the show didn’t need, and didn’t end up benefitting any character will ALWAYS be a gross decision. In the end, Mary in S3 forgot Conde like he was a weekend bender, a ton of time was wasted on further exploration of Francis and Mary as a married couple, Francis was never allowed to really have any justified reaction to Mary’s betrayal because the show didn’t want to deal with any of that, and Francis died so fast in S3 that we didn’t really get a lot of time for their reunion. The whole story was crap, and I’m staying mad about it.

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