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Hello Greg. It was nice seeing you at Spring Fling as well. No Fall Mowdown for me this year, but I'll make it to this IRCHA 2024 next month. 😀

these brands predate drone age. and mostly designed for traditional Radio Control airplanes and helicopters. Graupner, JR Propo and Futaba were the big names in RC electronics.

@@davidjacobs8558 Makes sense. I watched RC from afar over the years. I discovered a year ago that FPV acro quad flying is my happy place.

I do NOT fly multi-rotors, quadcopters, or FPV. I fly exclusively 3D RC aerobatic helicopters, so all my RC videos are from the point of view of these 3D RC aerobatic helicopters. The Mikado ecosystem is very popular in the world of RC helicopters. Although it can be used for fixed wing, this Mikado system is generally considered the only RC helicopter-centric ecosystem in our side of the hobby. Jeti is more popular in the fixed wing side of the hobby, but it can be configured to work with helicopters, multi-rotors and other RC disciplines. The Open Source systems are gaining popularity in the 3D RC aerobatic helicopters side of the hobby, but the interface and ease of use is not considered as mature as that of Mikado.

I too have felt that way since the VBC Touch came out. The Neo and now EVO units are good to very good, but they are not excellent. I find the Spirit units, specially the GT/GTR next level compared to Neo/EVO. However, to get the optimal experience with Spirit, Jeti radios are arguably at the top of the list. Jeti radios pack a lot of features (after you unlock the paid modules), but a lot of these features are best suited for fixed wing, and do not really apply to helicopters. The VBC Touch and now EVO radios are good to very good, but again not excellent. However, when you pair the Neo/EVO flight controllers with a VBC Touch/EVO radio, that's where I feel the whole is much more than the sum of its individual parts. I prefer the overall general experience with Mikado as a whole than with Jeti/Spirit. I really look forward to the Spirit WAVE system, as this will be the first competition of its kind that Mikado will face. I am also intrigued about the JR flight controller still in its testing phase, but as good as JR radios are, just like Jeti, JR is fixed wing centric. It seems Open Source radios and flight controllers are gaining in popularity, for what I assume is the very affordable price and and the features and possibilities limited only by the programmers' imagination, but I would need these Open Source systems to have improved user interface before I tackle something like that. I do see me trying open source equipment in the future, like in maybe 2 or 3 years from now, but I am not ready and/or willing to take on that challenge at this time.

I dumped my radio for radiomaster as well. These radios are nice, but honestly, mine can do everything they can and more. Throwing away money

There is a growing enthusiasm for Open Source technology. I do envision Open Source transmitters gaining a bigger piece of the pie over time, but we are just not there yet, at least not in the 3D helicopter discipline of the general RC hobby. At the present time, both the VBC and Jeti radios are quite popular in the 3D helicopter hobby as seen at any given fun fly in the US.

I don’t like wearing a neck strap. I felt I needed to wear a neck strap (actually a body strap) with the DS-14, DS-16, and specially the DS-24 radios because they were noticeably heavier. I don’t like how the aluminum shell feels pretty cold on my hands during the winter months. That’s why I sold all my other Jeti DS radios and settled for this light weight DS-12 radio. I also fly only helicopters, so the DS-12 has all the functionality needed for the 3D helicopter discipline.

@@johnahamelv makes perfect sense.

Looking at US market, the VBC EVO radio is currently sold exclusively by Mikado USA. shop.mikadousa.com/VBar-Control-EVO-Pick-Your-Color_p_3021.html The current list prices for a standard black VBC EVO radio is $1,299.99. There are options to purchase the radio in certain colors that bring the list price to $1,399.99, and some special colors bring the price to $1,499.99. Once you purchase the radio, you have the option to upgrade the radio's software to a "Pro" version for an additional $50.00. For the Jeti DS-12 radio, the base model lists for $650.00 and the carbon edition (the one in this video) lists for $975.00. To unlock features, Jeti has you pay additional money for modules. You can purchase those modules individually a la carte, or you can purchase them as package deals. A fully unlocked base model DS-12 radio lists for $1,025.00 and a fully unlocked DS-12 carbon edition radio lists for $1,375.00. www.espritmodel.com/jeti-duplex-radio-systems-ds-12-2-4ghz-900mhz-line.aspx

Definitely. I never felt the older iCharger 308 or iCharger 4010 needed additional charging power, although I am glad there is more balance power now for faster balancing. But yes, a more modern UI would have been neat.

The Tron Dnamic and XLPower Specter V2 are in different categories of helicopters. The Tron Dnamic is a "light weight" 700 size helicopter designed to be flown with a single 6S to 8S LiPo pack and meant to be flown at relatively lower head speeds. The Tron Dnamic is best compared to other helicopters in its class like the SAB Goblin RAW 700 Piuma and maybe the Oxy Flash. The XLP Specter V2 line of helicopters are designed as full size 700 size helicopters. The Tron equivalent to the XLP Specter 700 V2 airframe is the original Tron 7.0 and the latest Tron 7.0 Advance. Between the XLP Specter 700 V2 NME and the Tron 7.0, I prefer the Tron 7.0 overall. Even after upgrading the XLP Specter 700 V2 NME to the latest WC edition, I no longer own the Specter V2, but I flew the 368th flight on the Tron 7.0 just today. That hopefully gives you an ideal how I much prefer the Tron 7.0 to the Specter 700 V2.

Maple top from Uline. www.uline.com/BL_4036/Replacement-Packing-Tabletops

@@johnahamelv Thanks man. Have a nice flight

Thats Mikado s philosophy - plastic's fantastic 😁

My best guess is flight logs are mostly reviewed at the field, so ready access to the flight logs right from the radio is most convenient. I plan to publish another video demonstrating reviewing of flight logs via the Mikado VStabi website vs using Jeti Studio.

I cannot answer that. I have never tested the servo testing function in any of my iChargers.

I've never tried it myself, but I believe this can work for the AUX2 port. On the PC program, go under the General tab >> Channels. For "Function", choose "F: Output to AUX2" and assign a channel to this function.

I was not aware that HRB made an 8S LiPo battery. I am not having much luck finding this HRB 8S 3800mah LiPo battery on google.

Hello Gary. Thank you for your support. I fly 3D helicopters exclusively, so I always use heading hold. I believe the scale helicopter pilots like using rate mode for a more "scale look", but I admit that's about the extent of my scale helicopter understanding. It is my understanding some folks like adjusting the tail rod length using "rate mode" for mechanical setup purposes, under the belief mechanical adjustment under "rate mode" will make the tail hold better when using "heading hold". This theory has been debunked by the FBL unit developers (Tomas from Spirit, the MIkado developers, the MSH Brain2/iKON2 developers, etc.), but misinformation continues. From a pure academic standpoint, yes it is possible to flip between "heading hold" and "rate mode" using a switch. You would need to use "Free Mixes". This is found under "Main Menu" >> "Fine Tuning" >> "Free Mixes". You have to create 2 free mixes. I confess I don't fully understand why this works, but it does. You need to set up the 2 mixes equally. From Gyro sens. To Gyro sens. Set Master Value to "-100%" on both mixes. Set up the same activation switch and in same activation mode for both mixes. I don't have a video for this setup, but you can refer to this troubleshooting video. czcams.com/video/b9JogeAUrP0/video.html If you plan to use this method, make sure to assign Rescue/Stabilisation to a separate channel along with a separate switch.

Teros explains the procedure here. www.rc-thoughts.com/2016/11/spirit-rescue-with-jeti/

Thanks John appreciate the quick response

I never figured out the aileron shakes with this Synergy 806. I sold the airframe. The buyer did not run into any aileron shakes issues, but I don't know what he did differently. Like you, I also ran into similar aileron shakes with the Tron Dnamic. A combination of loosening the main blades and lowering the head gains down to the high 30's% to low 40's% did the trick.

True. Now the question is whether this thrust bearings installation orientation should also apply to other helicopter brands builds as well??

Seems it should be as other brands recommend as that would ‘somewhat’ aid in the retention of bearing grease.

80W per channel or 140W combined. I personally do not discharge using the charger's internal heat sink bank. I prefer using dedicated dischargers.

@@johnahamelv Is that because of the heat? Maybe harmful to the fets?

@@fredericktodd5789 I do not have formal education on electronics, but it does not seem like a good idea to me to heat up the internal heat sink of a charger to discharge batteries. I use my chargers just as chargers.

The Dnamic has a 700 size tail in the back is generally outfitted with relatively light weight motor and ESC in the front. When fitted with a single pack in the front (6S 5000mah, 7S 4500mah, 8S 4000mah), the fore/aft center of gravity is optimal. I imagine using the using two 6S 3700mah in stick configuration would inevitably shift the center of gravity towards the back. I don't know if it would be possible to shift the 12S 3700mah pack foreward enough under the canopy to obtain an optimal fore/aft COG.

Thanks!

Of the two chargers (458 Duo and 4010 Duo), the 4010 Duo has been around for about 10 years, so it has a proven record. However, it is my understanding that later versions of the 4010 Duo components have been updated over the past few years as older components were no longer available, so who knows how the newer components compare to the older components. Since the largest cell count batteries I charge are 8S, and the fastest I charge is 27A/800W per channel, the more compact 458 Duo makes the most sense for me. I guess the real question is choosing between the iCharger 456 Duo vs. iCharger 458 Duo. The iCharger 456 Duo is a bit cheaper at $325.00, but it has a 6S LiPo cell limit. The iCharger 458 Duo is $25.00 more expensive at $350.00, and it has a LiPo cell limit of 8S. Since I charge 8S batteries, the 456 Duo is not even an option for me. Still, for the $25.00 price difference, I would still recommend the 8S capable 458 Duo over the 6S capable 456 Duo. Since the released of this video, Junsi released the next generation charger to the 4010 Duo, the iCharger 4512 Duo. This iCharger 4512 Duo is the same physical size as the older 4010 Duo, but it features some of the same updates as the 456/458 Duo chargers, and it is capable of 53V input (compared to 49V input for the 456/458/4010 Duos). This 4512 Duo would be the choice for charging12S batteries (with 12S balance connectors). As far as power supplies, I personally prefer power supplies from reputable companies, and I always look for power supplies with active Power Factor Correction feature. My preference is the MeanWell RSP-2000- either in the 24V or 48V versions. A close second is the Junsi/Chargery S1200 or S1500 power supplies. www.progressiverc.com/collections/24-27v-supplies/products/mean-well-rsp-2000-24-power-supply www.progressiverc.com/collections/48-54v-supplies/products/mean-well-rsp-2000-48-power-supply www.progressiverc.com/collections/24-27v-supplies/products/chargery-s1200-power-supply www.progressiverc.com/collections/24-27v-supplies/products/chargery-s1500-power-supply

Ok so my next question is what do u think the best charger on the market today is. Thanks for ur reply

I currently have a k2 air but it lacks a lot for sure

@@AaronBittenbender The ISDT K2 Air is nice and compact size. It is AC/DC, so it gives you the option to connect it straight to the wall outlet and charge up to a limit of 200W. This works pretty well for charging several 1S, 2S, and 3S micro size batteries in parallel without needing an external power source. With an external power source, it allows for charging up to 500W per channel, which is pretty good. I would pair it with a 1000W to 1200W 24V DC power supply or LiFePO4 batteries.

@@AaronBittenbender This really depends on your situation, and budget. For me, mainly charge 7S 4500mah and 8S 4000mah packs and occasionally 6S 1800mah packs. This iCharger 458 Duo is to me the best compromise of existing chargers in the market today for my situation. Tell me more about your current and expected future charging needs.

Neither system is perfect. I find Spirit faster to tune to my liking than Neo/EVO. The Jeti radios offer many features not available with the VBC radios. However, the VBC Touch/EVO radios paired together with Neo/EVO FBL units are more than just the sum of the individual components. I mean, I prefer the Mikado ecosystem user interface better than the comparatively clunky Jeti/Spirit user interface. This video comparing YGE ESC integration with both VBCT/E and Neo/EVO compared with integration with Jeti/Spirit may give you an idea of what I a talking about: czcams.com/video/z7rju5aYB3M/video.html To me the real contest will be between Mikado radio/FBL vs. the upcoming Spirit WAVE radio/FBL

I have not published any videos over the past couple of months. I do plan to publish more videos. Let me know if you have any subject of interest.

Yes. I am still using the same transmitter case today, but I am currently using the dual transmitter foam insert (model number SPM6712) www.amainhobbies.com/spektrum-rc-dual-transmitter-foam-set-standup-spm6712/p244315 I used it for the VBC Touch and now for my VBC EVO and Jeti DS-12 radios.

@@johnahamelv thank you for your reply. I was thinking to put my VBC evo and 4 6s battery, do you think can squeeze in?

@@yeusing Assuming you are talking about 6S 5000mah packs, you should be able to fit the VBC EVO radio and 3 of those 6S 5000mah packs standing up. The 4th 6S 5000mah pack would have to lay sideways on either side of the transmitter.

I have a collection of gimbal stick ends. I do not remember where I purchased the ones I am using. I can tell you that the most common stick ends thread sizes are M3 and M4. Jeti uses M4. Other radios like Mikado VBar Control use M3 thread stick ends. So look for M4 thread size stick ends for this Jeti DS-12 radio.

Currently, the only function the newer VBC EVO can do that the older VBC Touch cannot is the ability to use an oscilloscope application which is only possible because of the VBC EVO's much faster processor. The VBC EVO's faster processor and larger memory capacity lends itself to other possibilities in the future.

Can you tell us more about this "Acc" parameter? Is there a downside to having it turned "ON"? Is there any reason to turn it "OFF"?

@@johnahamelv I suspect the downside is bigger current draw and marginally shorter servo lifespan

Each 100Ah mini size LiFePO4 battery I am using costs around $300.00 each, so $1,200.00 for all four batteries. Then you can add the cost of the charger(s) as well as the cost of wires and connectors. This LiFePO4 setup is certainly more costly initially compared to gas powered inverter generators.

No. LiPo batteries like we use in RC do not have an internal battery management system (BMS), and therefore cannot discharge themselves down to “storage charge” which is generally considered 3.85 volts per cell.

Thank you for getting back to me much appreciated

I have a video of what the battery does when I try to put it in storage mode is there anywhere I can send the video

You can always post the video here in CZcams as private, and give me permission to watch it.

Will do

I have not had any issues with the iCharger displays over the nine years I’ve own various iCharger Duo series chargers, but the ribbon should be fairly easy to disassemble and reassemble once one understands how to unlock and relock the ribbon retaining tab. The scroll wheel potentiometer is a different story. It does tend to go bad after 3 to 5 years of constant use. Replacement potentiometer is only $5.00, but it requires soldering onto the PC board.

I am very sorry, but I have not tried using Heli-X on a Windows computer. I assume you download a zip file. Then you unzip the file. Then there will be a file with the extension ".exe". You would click and open that ".exe" file to open the Heli-X program. But again, I don't use Windows computers often enough to guide you step by step. Best wishes.

I do not know about the Heli-X demo version. I own the full version of the Heli-X. I can tell you that was able to sim with Heli-X wirelessly on with my Mac computer using my home WiFi with the older VBC Touch radio, and I can do the same with the newer VBC EVO radio. But again, I do not know if Heli-X imposes a limitation when using the demo version. Another thing that comes to mind is that both the computer and the radio need to be connected to the same 2.4GHz WiFi band. Neither the VBC Touch or EVO radios connect to the 5GHz WiFi band. What I do at home is give each WiFi band a different name (I just add a "5" at the end of the name for the 5GHz band) to make sure the computer stays connected to the 2.4GHz WiFi band while simming with Heli-X. If both the 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands have the same name, the computer may switch automatically back and forth between the 2 bands, thus loosing wireless connection with the VBC T/E radio.

I connected the VBC Touch and EVO radios to my Mac only for purposes of this video to show the memory capacity, but I did not connect either radio to my Mac for registering either radio. I registered both the VBC Touch and EVO wirelessly using my home WiFi. You do NOT need to connect you VBC EVO radio to either a Mac or a Windows PC to register it, if you have a decent WiFi. The only limitation is that the VBC Touch/EVO radios only connect to the 2.4GHz WiFi band and will NOT connect to the 5GHz WiFi band.

@@johnahamelv Thanks John. That's my problem because I am on 5GHZ WIFI band and it is showing the 2.4Hz WIFI band in radio and I cannot seem to connect to WIFI. I put my password in the radio but nothing happens hoping it will connect. I tried changing the WIFI band on my computer but it keeps defaulting to 5GHz. It's driving me crazy.

I believe you have to use 2 different names for the two bands. We added a “5” to the 5GHz band to differentiate it from the 2.4GHz band. So our computers, TVs, iPads and phones preferentially connect to the 5GHz band and the VBC Touch/EVO connect to the 2.4GHz band. When I use the Heli-X simulator, I have to manually connect the computer to the 2.4GHz band so I can use the VBC Touch/EVO wirelessly with it.

@@johnahamelv I had my internet provider setup the 2.4Ghz band and my radio still would not connect. I call them back and they tried several other things without success. The Mikado sight says you first have to connect through VBar Control Manger using usb and then future updates can be done wirelessly. I would think that my radio should connect to my internet since it has been setup for this particular situation? Did you have to go through VBarControl Manager when you did yours wirelessly?

I had to use the VBar Manager application in the computer for the original VBC (now called the VBC classic). I had to use the VBar manager with the VBC Touch a few years ago (I forget why) and it would not work with the Mac version of the VBar Manager. I had to use the Windows version of the VBar manager, but I used Windows installed in my Mac for that, but I don’t remember if it was via Parallels or via Bootcamp. I did not have to use VBar manager for my VBC EVO radio; I registered and updated the firmware wirelessly using my home WiFi. It is my understanding that you have to separate the the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz bands in you WiFi router settings, and give each band different names.

Thanks, buddy!!

This 458 prompt and alarm volume is softer compared to the 4010.

Just to be clear to other viewers reading this, the purpose of blade tracking is to have the main blades path of rotation in the same plane. There is NO way to optimize blade tracking electronically via the FBL unit, Spirit FBL or otherwise. The only way to adjust blade tracking is "mechanically" by adjusting the lengths of the main blade grip link rods. Most newer 550+ size and larger helicopter kits now use turnbuckle style link rods on the blade grips to allow for fine length adjustments, so obtaining optimal blade tracking is now much easier than with older generation helicopter kits. There are several ways to optimize main blade tracking. The traditional method has been by eyesight during flight. There are several variations to this method, but the traditional method is to hover the helicopter at a height so that the main blades are at eye level, and you, the pilot observe for "double blade tip". If you see more than one blade tip as the blades spin, then you know the blades are out of track. To be able to distinguish the blades, the traditional method is to add reflective or different color tape to the leading edge of the blades. Then you adjust the blade grip link length of the blade(s) so you only see one blade tip during hover. This method has several limitations. Precision is limited to eyesight. The human eye may not be able to tell the blades are out of track until the blades are more than about 0.4° or 0.5° off. If the blade tracking is really way off, there may be pretty significant aileron shakes during hover, making this blade tracking process more challenging. There is a personal safety concern component as well with this method, as it relies on hovering a potentially significant blade out-of-track helicopter at eye level in relatively close proximity. The more modern method of blade tracking relies on main blade tracking at the bench BEFORE the maiden flight. There are different variations of this, but they all rely on adjusting the main blades to 0° pitch, which is usually at mid collective stick for 3D helicopters (scale and speed helicopters may be different). Explaining the logistics may be best with a 12 to 15 min video, but generally you want to get the cyclic servos arms 90° to the main shaft and have a level swash BEFORE to tracking the main blades. This step is best accomplish by getting the FBL unit in "setup mode" to deactivate the gyros. There are several tools available. There are a few variations of 0° tools. Another method is to fold the blades and adjust the blade grip rod lengths so the blade tips are even. Another method relies on using digital inclinometers which can take the form of dedicated pitch gauges, angle gauges, or even a smart phone. The SOKO tool takes it to the next level when it comes this setup. All these modern methods have their inherent pros and cons, but they tend to yield very good to nearly perfect blade tracking on the maiden flight.

Better for current flow for higher amp rate charging.

It is my understanding that sprag style OWB like this one can be packed with grease very liberally. You have to be a bit more careful with the rollers/needles style OWB which tend to work better with relatively light grade oil like ATF (automatic transmission fluid). With these OWBs you have to be more mindful about the type of lube you use. If you use a grease that is too "heavy" or a lube with PTFE, it is possible for the PTFE to "gum up" the rollers over time and cause the OWB to not disengage (opposite of slipping) consistently.

@@johnahamelvmakes perfect sense… thank you for that info.

As I best understand it, both the Spirit RS and Spirit GTR unit can only bind to Jeti radios. Neither one of these two units (Spirit RS and GTR) can be connected to an external receiver to bind to a different radio either. If you purchased a Spirit GTR unit (as featured in this video), it will only bind to a Jeti radio. It will not bind to a RadioMaster radio.

@@johnahamelv thank you for the information, I had asked seller about this before purchasing and was told it would. I guess it will go back then.

​@nicklong9985 I did the same thing. Will save the gtr for a later model, and purchase a jeti radio later as well.

If I understand your issue correctly, you calibrated the pitch (channel 6 on the Spirit "General > Channels > Receiver Channel Mapping" desktop software, 3rd variable on the Spirit "Diagnostic > Input Channel" in desktop software, and item #4 in the Jeti radio "Servo Setup"), so that Pitch on the Spirit "Diagnostic > Input Channels" is reading 100% at high stick, 0% at mid stick, and -100% at low stick. However, when you switch banks, the you are getting different percent numbers. The next thing to check here is your pitch curves for all 3 banks in your radio AND the "Pitch range" (Limits > Collective pitch > Pitch range) for all 3 banks in the Spirit software.

Hi again. I think the issue is that i have calibrated the pitch channel with the setup mode (default) on the transmitter selected. In the setup mode we have switched the pitch curve to a "7 point" one instead of a "constant" line. In that sense, the calibration with the setup mode on produces different results than when calibrating with any of the banks. Anyway, i have switched the pitch curve to constant on the setup mode and recalibrate. Everything seems consistant now. Thanks for the kind help.@@johnahamelv

You can follow this thread on the VStabi forum: www.vstabi.info/forum/read.php?58,179182,179247#msg-179247 Don't click on the weblink above. Copy and paste the weblink. If the weblink above does not take you to the thread, follow the following in the VStabi forum: Home > VBar Control > Questions VBar Control Touch > VBC Touch: How to charge at the field?