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MillSounds
Registrace 27. 11. 2016
McLoone Audio Bus Driver and Mini Bus Review
The McLoone Audio Bus Driver is a great and unique solution for analog summing. You can mix into it at various levels in stereo, or combine it with the McLoone Mini Bus and increase you external summing channel count to 10 channels. We'll go through a few settings to hear how the Bus Driver sounds, as well as using it with conjunction with the Mini Bus to interface with analog preamps.
Purchase:
mcloone.myshopify.com/products/bus-driver
Time Stamps:
00:00 Intro (Talking)
03:19 Mini Bus into API Preamps vs API Console
05:08 Mini Bus into Bus Driver, Default Setting
07:20 Mini Bus into Bus Driver with Boost
09:09 Bus Driver Stereo Default Setting
11:30 Bus Driver Stereo Increased Drive
14:00 Bus Driver Stereo Driven Hard
16:03 Bus Driver Stereo Drum Stem Driven Hard
18:16 Bus Driver as Preamp
19:49 Outro (Talking)
21:21 Secret "Dog Tax" (Shhhhhhh, it's SUPER secret ending)
Purchase:
mcloone.myshopify.com/products/bus-driver
Time Stamps:
00:00 Intro (Talking)
03:19 Mini Bus into API Preamps vs API Console
05:08 Mini Bus into Bus Driver, Default Setting
07:20 Mini Bus into Bus Driver with Boost
09:09 Bus Driver Stereo Default Setting
11:30 Bus Driver Stereo Increased Drive
14:00 Bus Driver Stereo Driven Hard
16:03 Bus Driver Stereo Drum Stem Driven Hard
18:16 Bus Driver as Preamp
19:49 Outro (Talking)
21:21 Secret "Dog Tax" (Shhhhhhh, it's SUPER secret ending)
zhlédnutí: 3 063
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Great video. Good to note that the user does not need to know any math. Lol. I just use four microphones and the rode plugin.
So that IS you. Great song and recording! I see you're using that Soyuz "Ambisonic" mic as well. You've really piqued my interest on a couple of things. I really dug the EQ on vocals and bass. Can't stop thinking about that microphone. Is that some kind of special baffle as well? Are you on the internet somewhere? I am actually a professional audio engineer. I've been out of the loop for a while and just started working again recently. I'm located in NYC. Thanks. Edit: I found you! Arkansas, huh? I will certainly keep your place in mind if I have a project. Looks like a great place! Sub-SCRIBED.
API is fuller, especially the snare drum! Almost sounds like a phase switch. I've been using API consoles since 1988. My first console, actually. I've always loved their sound.
Great track! Super solid recording AND performance. Is that you?
Love the use of Granmas diamond cut lead crystal ❤
OMG something that's affordable, I can blindly hear it! This is great man! I really dig that Mini Buss, as I've been trying to do this(bussing a stereo out to preamps for colour and then back into the Daw)with very mixed results and a shit ton of headaches. This will make it way easier and it's about as much as a cheap DI! THANK YOU!
Ya, it's a solid choice if you want to use a few of your preamps for color!
This is so interesting! I’ve got that old altec solid state mixer and I think channel 5 has phantom but it’s like 24 volts or something but totally works with some mics and I’ve always wondered if it’s really 48 or what but I bet this is kind of what’s happening and it’s just underpowered but still has a vibe (plus that thing has almost too much gain so it might balance it out)
The extra features on the Copperline would probably come in handy as well, you might get better results playing with the Load switch on there with your Altec. Considering the kind of music you do, I'm sure you could come up with a lot of creative ways to starve the voltage occasionally as well for some Lo-Fi sounds. Some mics react really well boosting the voltage up to 52v as well. Go for it, I would love see what you think!
As always great video, I like the filming and editing, great job. It would have been interesting to hear the comparison between with and without the mini bus into the bus driver. I personally find (calibrated) summing box to be almost totally useless for ITB mix, analog or hybrid is a different story. I'm not sure what started that trend but if you're ITB splitting your mix in multiple stereo stems into a passive summing box is useless and playing the stereo mix into a stereo hardware is more practical. I think using hardware like the bus driver on the mix bus can be fun, it adds some soft clipping etc, (you probably can approximate it ITB, not as fun but more handy).
I purposefully avoided digging into the summing thin with this video, this was just a demo and I didn’t want to open that can or worms 😂. To me, summing out to more channels is more about the headroom than anything if you’re going to push your outboard gear. You can push more level (collectively) out of your converters when the information is spread out of a few stereo channels as opposed to a single stereo pair. That not as big of a deal with the Bus Driver, as there’s plenty of ways to gain stage in and out to drive it. Regardless of the summing aspect, the Mini Bus is a nice tool to have around for situations like summing together a few synths or something to go into one pair of preamps or something.
@@MillSounds You're right but when summing multiple mics on an amp for example wouldn't you need one more preamp plugged to the output of the mini bus to bring it back to line level? I think one of the few pre rack that had that option was the chandler where you could sum input 1 and input 2. Always nice when you're double miking a cab.
What's the price?
The Bus Driver is $450 USD and the Mini Bus is $120 (mcloone.myshopify.com/collections/outboard)
@@MillSoundsThe links not working but I was able to navigate the site to it.
@@richertz Mike's got some issues with the website he's working through... Glad you found it!
Sound is pretty similar to me, and the song is just beautiful! Cheers!
So is this the Lebanese singer, Fairuz?
Cool boxes! But that API Box still sounds the best to me!
it sounds excellent ; thanks for the review !
I really wish someone would switch the hardware and software audio and tell ppl months down the road that this is the software and this is the hardware some of these ppl need humbled in the audio community
@@triplebeam23 I’ve thought about it a few times (I considered doing it in the last video of my API vs Software series), it would just be too much of a dick move 😂. I’m not really trying to make a point with these videos, I’m doing honest presentations with hopefully enough examples where people can make their own decision. I don’t care what you do, I just want to make it easier for people to make a decision…
Thank you for the excellent walkthrough and review, Matt! You are absolutely correct in that EVERY mic will react differently to this unit. Some won't do much and aren't that fun to experiment with, but then some will do some pretty incredible things outside of their "optimal" working zone. The Copperline is a box with which to get creative. That said, if experimenting with phantom power is only for some engineers, all good! It's just one feature, and the Copperline can be used at 48v for extremely solid performance! Your thorough and thoughtful video is appreciated!
Thanks, really enjoyed learning some new things with this!
It looks like there is a hole under the input gain knob for calibrating something. Does anyone know what this is for?
I double checked the manual just now and didn't see anything. There's definitely some sort of adjustable screw recessed in there. My guess is that it's the calibration for the meter, you'll have to ask Heritage.
Thank you for the comprehensive comparison. I don't play any electrical devices on cabinets, but these demonstrations illustrate the sounds in a well-paced, well-defined way that clearly demonstrates the effect of the plugin compared to the live sound. Well done for the thought and effort behind this production! 👍👍
Appreciate the comprehensive test!🙂 Really liked both preamps...with the Vanguard V24 tube almost leaned ever so slight to the CA-286 The feedback is an awesome weapon! I sold my 2-610 and a CL1b a year or so ago and miss the tube goodness....Was interested in HAzelrigg VLC, but they have gotten quite pricey these days...Really impressed with all the demo's....Thanks M8🌈
Pro Tools allows setting multiple outputs on a bus. I'm sending my master to a separate monitor bus, in which SW is inserted. That way master isn't "corrupted" by correction. But I'm still contemplating on buying ARC Studio for correcting the room, when I'm mixing a stream with a sound console.
Each of your 8 Preamps has it’s own transformer & 2520 OP Amp. Not to mention whatever is contained within whichever 500 series module you choose for your 8 slots. So your tracking section can definitely impart harmonic saturation / color etc.
what do you think of the zoom ambisonic 360 mic as a starter mic to get introduced to ambisonics in general? I want to record classical music: piano specifically along with voice, french horn, and guitar. but since you said ambisonic mics are sensitive to musicians live dynamics, would something louder like french horn + piano be difficult to record?
A friend of mine has one of the zooms. He uses it for capturing things like fireworks on the 4th of July and other cool ambiance things. It does a great job for that and is a cheap way to get into ambisonics. Neither of us liked it for musical things, most sources just sounded a bit thin and too bright. I think it's the best place to start if you're curious about ambisonics though! The next tier up for ambisonic mics is going to start around $1000, so the zoom is about the only affordable option. As for dynamics, you just have to be conscious about your gain staging. You can't approach this as setting levels for 4 different microphones, every mic has to have the exact same gain settings to decode correctly. You have to figure out which capsule is getting the loudest signal, and make sure you set the gain on that channel to leave you enough headroom. Then you have to set all the other preamp channel to the same gain setting that first channel is at. It's a bit odd sometimes, as you'll have one channel that's getting a lot of level and the other 3 channels seem way too quiet. That's just the nature of ambisonics, so make sure you're using the exact same gain settings for every channel and leaving yourself enough headroom.
@@MillSounds thank you for your thorough reply! ❤️
Awesome content right here!!! Thanks for putting in the work and sharing your knowledge! Subbed! 😉
For balanced presentation of frequencies, I'm a little disappointed that the tubes produce such a clear, classy picture by comparison. More "mix ready", as folks have said; not that the FET/non launcher signal was bad or couldn't be tailored with eq. Even so, the FET/launcher combo really impressed me on drums & bass, & while the launcher has been on my radar for a while, this is the first demo I've seen that confirms how it can shine, & on what sources. Thanks for putting in the effort to make this shootout!
Just thank You for this. We need more common sense and genuine love for music instead of all of the marketing we often get from most of the Audio CZcamsrs.
You should also show sound WITHOUT PROCESSING.
Why somebody suggest that something is even similar to hardware in this code
Fantastic work, just an insanely high-quality series - well done. On the full track, again I'm hearing the same thing of acoustic guitar not as good with the UAD. But also the UAD on the vocal doesn't sound great, in a similar area of the upper mids/treble. Possibly the same thing that is exageratting the graininess in the acoustic is bringing out a papery sibilance in the vocal. Whereas the acoustic and vocal sound great on the API. Didn't distinguish a massive difference otherwise, maybe the bass was a little fuller with the API, but wasn't a night and day difference in this track. In fact, the slightly edgier UAD sound on the electric guitar when solo actually made it more intelligible in the full mix - like a slight presence boost.
Interesting. From the first video, I had a less positive impression of the software chain. But, after this one, the software is a little better than I thought after the first video. Because, it seems like acoustic guitar was the achilles heel for the UAD software; where I didn't like it. What's quite nice is that overall drums is where it made the least difference. That's great, because it's tracking drums with 8, 10 or 12 expensive preamps that hits the highest costs. It matches with my own experience too, where I'll stick Neve/CAPI pairs on kick and snare and run run overheads through Camden EC1s. But for the rest, I'm happy to just run spot tom mics, and room mics into my affordable Audient ASP800 and it doesn't feel like I'm missing that much. Whereas, for acoustic guitar and vocals, I'll always take the time to set it up with the Neves. The bass had more depth on the API, but then those differences could wash away in a mic/D.I. mix, with compression. Similar with electric guitar, mic placement, EQ and compression could ameliorate the fact that the CAPI did sound a little smoother / less grainy. A little of that difference in body and treble grain that was apparent on acoustic could be heard on electric, and even less again on piano. (the UAD API tone had some of that treble grain texture you hear on Soyuz MK-012 SDCs)
It was definitely enlightening. My own conclusion was that the the software had quite varied a degree of success, at those different stages of preamp, EQ and a whole chain with compression. With the preamp modelling, what I was hearing was tthat the preamp modelling was not an adequate substitute for the the real hardware. They did not sound like the same thing. It sounded like a rough ballpark approximation, at best. So, especially for the critical tracks like vocals and main guitars, I think it's worth investing in the hardware if you can afford it. Especially when a great preamp like a CAPI VP28 is not _that_ expensive for one or two channels, relative to the cost of a UAD audio interface. Whereas, with the EQ, it was closer, and I would consider the software quite acceptable. For me, this chimes with the fact that many engineers are very comfortable at this point using software EQs extensively. But the most interesting thing was that once the full signal path was heard, with the compression, then the full paths sounded acceptably close again. I've noticed that before with cheaper transformerless mic clones. Naked, they sound inferior. But, once you introduce EQ and Compression, even digital, the gap becomes closer. So, with a bit of work, can get there with software. But, if you can afford the hardware, you save yourself that work/time.
I read your comments on all three videos. We are pretty much on the same page with everything you said. The EQ was definitely the one thing I could not tell a difference on with anything, the software EQ phased out pretty much completely with the hardware in most instances. I ended up selling the EQ's after that video, I'm extremely happy with the UAD ones.
@@MillSounds yes, I owe you sincere thanks. Because I was setting our my budget for next couple of years studio budget. And EQs were towards the bottom of the list. Sources then mics, room/monitoring at the top. But, after this, I will reallocate what was the EQ budget, probably toward a really nice stereo ribbon mic pair (AEA, Coles, or Royer). Once you have one or two pairs of great pres, plus a bank of 8 good ones, maybe that's good enough preamps. Be interesting to know why you decided to offload the API The Box...
@@compucorder64 I've got the console for sale on reverb right now. I have absolutely no complaints with it, it's great and I like it. This is a whole other conversation, but it just boils down to me not needing a console. I went really far down the hardware rabbit hole, used the Box Console to help be the brain and put everything together and just decided I don't really want to work that way. I'm going to really simplify things here soon, but it has nothing to do with the console. It's amazing, I'm just realizing I'm going to be happier going consoleless...
@@MillSounds Makes sense to me. I used to have an ex-BBC OB van Amek BC3. I sold it when I moved country from the UK. I kinda miss it, ... a bit. But, I don't know if I'd re-invest in a console again. I'd get more out of some great mics, or a great drum kit, piano, Rhodes, Wurlitzer, interesting amp, vintage synth or whatever.
Bridge pickup, please
How do you like the api channel strip for guitars?
Nice. Love this full console-only-style demo for small desktop setup. Great track too.. Thought the vocalist had same vibe as John Boyd of Incubus. My question is - Can you not create markers to each part of the song instead of timeline scrolling between verses and chorus? It'll be cool if the timecode window can also show main mix transients to be able to 'see' where we are while working on it. Overall still very impressed on this small setup. Good stuff!
Man I really like you and your style. You seem like a really good dude. Joined!
As soon as the full mix switched to the real room, I went "aaah there it is", but then i went back to the plugin and i was like - well, it's still there 🤣
Hey man, that is a great song! They both sound very good to my ears, however, the API sounds a bit more "Live" and it has to do with the wider stereo image and the warm sound of the transformers. I really appreciate this great production because I'm a big fan of analog gear, that's how I grew up in my music career. This video was very reveling since I was wonder how much I'm missing by not having the API "The Box", yes, you can get a bit more punchy and warm sound but it's over $16,000. The question is, does it make your final track sound a $16,000 dollars better? Probably you can get the same result with a good analog master buss processor for about $4000.
Plugin is pretty good. But the low end and depth on the hardware is a pretty huge difference for me. Expecially across a whole mix the effect of the hardware would grow exponentially. I’m definitely ganna give the plugin a try. Great channel brother!
And after having wasted 5000 heirs; “no, of course it can’t. I wasted my life daydreaming instead of making music”
Subscribed!
Thank you so much for sharing this❤️❤️❤️❤️
This is a crazy plugin. My vst drums suddenly became real live drums and the tweaking (decay and more) on in the vst really shines combined with the different parts of the plugin.
Is it Virginia?
Heck yeah! Very grateful for your technical and artistic insights. Just joined 🎉
So much dimension added, and almost a “Soothe”-like removal of anything brittle too. Wonderful demonstration and some clearly great EQ decisions with it too. “Sounds like a record”.
What’s the riff? Sounds great!
I don't think I ever did anything with that riff. It was somewhere between Aerosmith and Foo Fighters, I felt weird because it was kind of similar to "Jaded"...
Did you record with compression or is it "just" controlled performance because after eqing it sounds closed to a natural yet finished result which doesn't need further compression on individual tracks imo. It suits the song. Great video as usual!
All i can say is...great production and terrific song...very impressed
Amazing. I really like what the compressor did for the tones of this song. It really handled the dynamics of the song structure. I really noticed the movement when the E. Guitar and piano come in on the right channel along with the falsetto-esq vocals. Great song by the way. Reminds me of Jeff Buckley with a bit of Coldplay parachutes. I love the barking at the end as I’ve had this happen to me so many times.