Video

I was just imagining how Metroid would actually transition to the From Souls genre so well. I feel like it could actually pull off being a semi shooter game using the soulslike gameplay. Target an enemy for focused aiming. Samus quickly goes into morph ball mode while dodging. And most of Metroid enemies tend to be melee so getting completely overwhelmed with blasts and bullet hell situations wouldn't really be an issue.

Whats the game at 2:50?

I had real trouble finding the path to Burg when I started :D I did find New Londo and the Catacombs though

Dark souls is a 3d metroidvania :)

When trying to categorize what is or isn't metroidvania, we run into an inevitable issue, which is that "metroidvania" isn't a genre of games defined by specific mechanics, but rather how they come together. What makes a metroidvania is first and foremost the games' design philosophy. Which is why these debates about "is this game a metroidvania ?" constantly come up about tons of games. It's kind the opposite issue with discussion about "RPG" as a genre. RPG elements have become so common that they are found within nearly every modern action game, but despite clearly having RPG mechanics these game often feel like an entirely different genre. I would argue that the metroidvania genre cannot be defined simply by the presence or absence of one specific mechanics. Abilities/movement or combat items being unlocked throughout the games and necessary for progression is also quite common as a design element. But I don't think we would call classic Zelda games metroidvanias, despite being perhaps the franchise most reliant on this sort of item/ability based progression. Rather, to me metroidvanias are defined by the way they encourage exploration, non-linearity and a sense of progression tied not only to how strong your character gets, but also how easily and efficiently you can navigate the world, with or without movement upgrades. For souls games and souls-likes, it really depends for me. Just like the line between what is an action plateformer and a metroidvania can be very blurry, I don't think all of these games are really metroidvanias, whether they are made by From Software or notn Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne absolutely fit into the "3D Metroidvania category" for me. Dark Souls 2 and Demon Souls however... Likewise, I personnaly don't consider Ori and the Blind Forest to really be a metroidvania, because its use of non-linearity, backtracking and most importantly its exploration are very superficial. The game is first and foremost a 2d plateformer. It's sequel however, while still keeping much of the DNA of the first game, feels a lot more like a proper metroidvania, even if I would still hesitate to call it one. Souls-like has really become a type of genre, but to me its one that is distinct from metroidvania, it has its own design characteristics (rather high difficulty, stamina based combat, a certain type of RPG leveling systemn...) and overall guiding philosophies (overcoming challenges and tricking the player into persevering into what feels like insurmontable odds, cryptic stories with a heavy focus on environnemental storytelling and a morally complex world...) The two often overlap, but not necessarely.

Yes. Yes it is.

I've been on this wave since day one, the DS world alone puts it right in line with the metroidvania genre.

You mean Metroidvania is a DARK SOULS.

great video! i agree with the first boss being dirth instead of spiders, but at the same time i've seen metroidvanias do this thing where the bosses become more relevent as the game progresses. Maybe that's their aim? But I agree with the idea of the whole story covering the game instead of being partial.

what is the game at 7:50?

terrific video, subscribed!

there are no traversal tools just cause the map opens up more and more doesnt mean its a metroidvania calling any game that opens up more and more and isnt either linear nor you can go anywhere you want from the get go a metroidvania is big stretch of the word metroidvania i could make that case for a lot of games.... ringing 2 bells and getting the lord vessel to open up the world more isnt the defenition of a metroidvania you could exchange those two things with a quest in other games... in fact those are quests even though you dont have a questlog... and getting a ring that lets you beat the hydra EASIER... (its not required) is not enough... you can beat it without... did it countless times

4:22 this part of the script is clearly AI generated

It is in no way like Metroid. It is in no way like Castelvania. NO.

Ask yourself, how much like a dark souls game does a game have to be for it to be a souls-like? Now ask yourself, how many grains of sand do you need to create a pile of sand? Then realize genres are ill-defined and definitions of genres aren't meant to be exact, but rather, provide a "vibe". Dark souls fails the vibe check for 99.9% of people, so it's not a metroidvania.

Powerups like double jump is an essential part of the metroidvania formula. Dark Souls doesnt have anything like that. Also near the end of the video you mentioned something about the game's "lineage". Dark Souls is quite literally the spiritual successor to Fromsoft's King's Field series which were a japanese take on first person dungeon crawling RPGs such as Ultima Underworld and Wizardry. THAT is Dark Souls' lineage.

Isn't this obvious? It's a 3D Castlevania. Play the N64 Castlevania if you haven't, it's the same thing.

> Elden RIng is a Mario-like When will people actively talk about how the Souls series is heavily inspired by Mario? Fat fire-spitting statues in the fire castle, walking mushrooms, bugs with big mushrooms on their backs (Goombas), (flower) catalyst required for pyromancies, most of which are thrown like a (fire)ball, and they go down the pipe / elevator. Yes, I was the first person ever to notice all of it. No, I do not have the willpower to play through all Mario and Souls games, highlight all the 1:1 copied ideas, and assemble a video for it.

no

Great video man! what's the version of the game you're recording? it looks like it has the lighting of the original game. or is it a mod for remastered?

I've been saying that DS1 is a metroidvania for ages. Yeah it's not 100%, but it is very close. I want more 3D metroidvanias, the only modern one I can think of is Pseudoregalia.

No. It's a fairly linear (and almost completely linear after the half way point) action game with RPG elements. About the only Metroidvania aspect you could argue it does have are connecting pathways, but that doesn't make a game a Metroidvania. Metroidvania games are designed around two core ideas: movement abilities and level design that makes use of those abilities. The good Metroidvanias will incorporate these ideas naturally and seamlessly. Take Lost Crown or Fist, for example. Both games have ground or air dashes, a grapple of some kind, wall jump, and double jump. The level design takes this into account and designs the maps around having the player use these abilities to access new areas, secrets, and even during combat. Dark Souls does none of this. Your one movement ability is rolling. The only level design obstacle you have to contend with are locked doors that open from the other side or with a key. This is standard stuff that doesn't get anymore intricate the further you go. If you want to see a really good Metroidvania, play Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown. You'll see just how different the two games are and how they aren't even in the same genre. Dark Souls, honestly, is pretty weak in terms of its level complexity to even some mid tier Metroidvania games because its focus is on combat, not level design. Most of Dark Souls 1's levels are straightforward with a bunch of enemies in the way and that goes against the very idea of a Metroidvania.

For the beginning 3/4'th of the game I pretty much agree.

The first thing that crossed my mind when I played DS1 for the first time some years ago was how much it reminded me of Castlevania: SotN.

Imo in a Metroidvania the gatekeeping of areas requires some kind of ability unlock, not just keys or knowledge. Dark Souls and Bloodborne are the same genres as King's Field and Shadow Tower, semi-open world action adventure RPG.

Wow, great job, I never thought of it but yeah, it is a bit of a Castlevania game. I love those types of games! Subscribed :-)

dark souls 1 is diferent from other soulsborne game that make it special in my heart it also my favoirite in dark souls trilogy i wish there is more 3d metroidvenia with diference combat theme and art style

Dark Souls is a metroidvania, and so is Batman Arkham Asylum

Good video. You presented one of the best cases I've seen on the subject. But I wholeheartedly disagree. The one thing that is missing is traversal. In just about any Metroidvania, you acquire new abilities like a dash, double jump, or grappling hook that'll change the way you explore the game. They'll help you reach that ledge or cross that canyon. Also combat abilities themselves are key to unlocking new areas like using fire to melt ice doors or using an ice spell to create a bridge. DS1 doesn't really have anything like that. And practically all magic is used for combat. But I appreciate the effort you put into the video! Keep it up.

Hey, I liked your arguments, your script seemed well structured and you make good points. I would argue that the 3D aspect of Dark Souls is the main deterrent for me to consider it a proper metroidvania. I know it doesn’t make sense said like that but if we disregard that aspect of the metroidvania genre, well, Diablo, doom 2016, and probably the crew 2 could be considered metroidvania as they also include maps that open as you progress, some enhancements that help you reach previously closed paths and some sort of leveling up. It could be argued that some missions and maps of some strategy games could be considered metroidvanias if only taking those metrics into account and not the perspective of the game and the methods of traversal. But the main reason I came to comment was actually to give a suggestion: you need to practice your script reading technique, it’s very noticeable. I know everyone or almost everyone reads from a script when making video essays but they make it sound like they’re telling you from memory or talking casually to you. As I said your arguments are ok and the script was all right so practicing that part would improve your content greatly. Wish you the best

9:07 Yep, this is the dealbreaker for me. As far as my personal concept of Metroidvania goes, simply locking progression via keys/key items is not enough to qualify, and that's all Dark Souls does. Instead, there must be barriers which by intended design, are impossible to cross (short of glitches and exploits,) without acquiring and using entirely new or altered, for lack of a better term, "mechanical" abilities. Higher jumps, double jumps, faster movement, ability to teleport short distances, etc- abilities that change your character in ways other than their listed stats and damage numbers. And Dark Souls games never change your character's abilities in those ways. The only things required to cross Dark Souls' hard barriers is keys which otherwise have zero impact on in-game abilities, and key-based progression isn't Metroidvania progression. Being 2d, or possessing any degree of RPG elements is irrelevant to that one distinction: Progression must require changes to character mechanics. And on a side note, the fact that you go from a weak nobody in those games to a legendary hero who can slay gods, purely via increasing your health/defense and damage output numbers, rather than also moving faster, jumping higher, etc, has always been a weak point in those games as I see them. It just doesn't feel right that hitting harder and taking hits better, but never improving your downright underwhelming and mundane mobility and such, should be all it takes to eventually slay gods and giant dragons where none have succeeded before. Just put one Lord Soul on top of a waist-high platform with no ladder or on the other side of a moderate gap and your quest would be over right there, since no amount of stat upgrades or even magical items improve your mobility one bit. Mobility that is, quite frankly, below average normal person standards anyway. It's fine that you start that way, but super lame you never can get any better, despite your stats themselves growing so much. The path to becoming a cool fantasy hero who decides the very fate of existence itself should be about more than just achieving bigger damage numbers.

The story of momodora is a lot deeper than I thought (I played all of the series) momo 1 and 2 are free btw. And 2 is actually good

Ds games have always been turn based JRPG's

Always tell people this. How can there be a soulslike genre when soulslike games are just 3d metroidvania games? It's weird that we gave a new name to a genre that already existed.

Don't downgrade DS1 please.

From day one I played Dark Souls, I always thought it felt like modernized 3D Castlevania done right! I never got why this comparison was so rare. After the disappointment of playing Lords of Shadows, Dark Souls was everything I expected from that game. Dark Souls is almost exact same formula of Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, but with the difficulty of the classic NES/SNES Castlevania games. My dream game would be a 3D modernized remake of Symphony of the Night in Soulsborne style! Would be super fitting and legendary!

if you took a metroidvania, stripped out the abilities, and replaced them with literal keys that just open locked doors, it just wouldn't be the same. god of war (2018 & ragnarok) is more of a metroidvania than dark souls. the covenant of the artorias ring is just a nerf that forces you to be down a ring slot for that one boss room (and is no longer required in that room after the fight!) ...similarly, sekiro is not a rhythm game. someone just says a thing one day and it infects the fandom. like the idea that the ring of favor and protection is somehow good enough to trade away one of the best light armor sets in the game and a free maxed out bonfire later on

Ahh yes, dark souls is a 2d game . No wonder you have no subs. Keep making clown videos like this you'll do well😂

I enjoy getting philosophical about this sort of nerdy stuff. You speak well man, easy listen

No one really disagrees with this idea. People have said this since its release over a decade ago. This is neither particularly controversial or new insight. V:

I mean. It is. Just 3d instead.

Nice video!

True, Dark Souls is a 2D action adventure platformer, Super Mario Bros is a JRPG (you save the princess just like in Dragon Quest!), Street Fighter is a sports game, and Tetris is a porno game (if you pretend the long bar is a penis).

Dark souls 1 is dark souls 1.

Dark Souls 1 being a Metroidvania is a far more sane argument than Sekiro being a rhythm game.

Totally agree. I would even argue skills like rolling, parrying, jumping etc which are very useful for certain areas in the game are learned similarly to Metroidvanias as well.

That reminds me when Yahtzee in old Escapist Magazine reviewed Dark Souls, at the time he gave it a second try when to him he realized it's like Castlevania SOTN in a weird sense. Like,. there are different paths but some places are harder and you might go later. Although it's not very obvious in SOTN, there are mostly hard locks, and barely any soft locks like extreme difficulty for start. That made me think when I first played it though, there are more elements that are attractive in metroidvanias that are also existing in DS. Like, you find items hanging on corpses at places that sometimes are inaccesible and you wonder how do I get that item? And the map is precisely design, not fully openworld, not procedural, but precisely design so that it's all imprinted in your mind and you wonder "how the hell I get to that place where an item is hanging on the roof". Well, in SOTN you would become a bat or something and fly, in DS no such thing, but it has the similar vibes when you open areas from the other side or drop under some bridge to get an item hanging below. But yeah, it's hard to wrap around ones head to call it metroidvania. Would FromSoft's dungeon crawlers like King's Field considered so? They have some of these elements. The exception of course is that you don't open areas with new superpowers but by finding keys and solving puzzles. But the philosophy lives in. Also, in the past these kinds of games were called arcade adventures (at least the 2d versions of them). I don't know, some decided souls games to be called SoulsBorne. And then SoulsBorneKhiroRingSomething..

I Mean FromSoft Make Kings Field