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Twangy distortion with a tiny bit of creaking occasionally, super cool!

@@ToniLinke thanks for the info Toni!

This is a combination of distortion and creaking, using a bit of twang and compression in a heady mixed voice. Except for the sound colour, it should be quite similar to the coordination I'm going for in my "Jesus Christ Pose" cover. :)

@@ToniLinkeThank you so much for the reply. I think I’m on the right track. I understand the feeling of compression and false folds in chest voice, but I’m struggling a bit to figure out the coordination into mix. Awesome cover of “Jesus Christ Pose”!You sound amazing! Thanks again!

I can point towards Voice Studio East for that :)

Yes!

@@ToniLinke amazing

Yes, you can find all info on my website toni-linke.com/lessons :)

Steht auf der Liste :D

It's either projected Creaking or a subtle twangy distortion!

Yup! Often with these singers, it's combinations of techniques, or switching back and forth. I definitely often hear distortion and creaking, but also rattle (especially when it goes more into the gospel direction).

@@ToniLinke thanks for the reply! will ty it out also considering getting some lessons!

It's just a metaphor so if it doesn't work for you, no problem! Maybe you can try starting on a falsetto note and invite creaking there?

Make sure to watch me update (Rough Vocal Effects Revisited episode #3), it's even more extensive! :)

I would say they're two separate things. Cry-like or whiny sounds usually encourage tilting the larynx, stretching and thinning out the vocal folds, whereas twang is a narrowing above the vocal folds which can help them close more easily (regardless of how stretched/thinned out they are). But that's only my interpretation of those words, maybe in some other pedagogy people might combine cry & twang.

I'd go for a mixed belt (reduced Overdrive in CVT) with compressed twangy distortion, so mostly twang and some little compression on top to darken a bit.

You can get distortion independently from vowels, as you've already found out! However, it's not always the most efficient way in terms of effort. When distortion or creaking come in, the pressure balance changes. That means that if we can influence the pressure balance with any other parameter, we can make it easier to provoke distortion or creaking! Every vowel (and vocal tract shape in general) has a different resistance, and thus back-influences the pressure balance in the larynx (this is called non-linear source-filter interaction). At least for shouty vowels like "EH" and "OH" (which are very common in rock music), you could rely more on finding distortion the way I presented in the video (instead of increasing your muscle effort), or for "AH" vowels (which produce mid to high screams in metal), you could rely on the mere vowel shape provoking the atonality, instead of working harder. Of course, with other vowels (for example if you want to distort or scream on an OO vowel) it's not as easy, and as you've found out before, it's totally possible to change the pressure balance of any of these vowels just by pushing more, or adjusting the posture etc., but I think the exercise I presented can at least show a beginner what the easiest possible access (not necessarily in terms of simplicity, but effort!) to hyper-compressed distortion and screaming can be :)

Wow! Thanks for sharing this!

On my website (under teaching --> free material) I've linked a public library of articles and research papers (listed by the names of the authors instead of the topics, so it might take a bit of time working through it) as well as a "Vocalism" playlist of CZcams videos about singing I like, but if you want a consistent and relatively easy to grasp concept, I recommend Complete Vocal Technique. Their language is not very scientific, but every word has a clear definition and their pedagogy is evidence-based (you can also find most of their scientific papers on the CVT research site). There's also a free introductory app (the full app costs as much as the book, but gets updated regularly), as well as dozens of CZcams videos from CVT certified coaches. I'm not CVT certified myself, but the method has helped my own singing and teaching immensely.

@@ToniLinke thank you Toni, that was a super fast and helpful response! I have actually purchased the CVT course but kind of got a bit confused by their very proprietary definitions like Overdrive, Edge, Curbing, they also seem to ignore the existence of registers, which is confusing to me. Any thoughts on this? I will definitely check out your website! Thank you kindly :) And once again, excellent videos, really clear and well explained!

@@relivoaddad registers are defined in many different ways, often informed by genre bias (for example when people prescribe to you when and where to change from one to another register). CVT does not ignore the anatomical reality of thicker/shorter vs. thinner/stretched vocal folds or the parameters of vibratory pattern and closure, they just use different terms for them. Many people find this confusing in the beginning ("Why do we need yet another set of terms?"), and personally I tend to "translate" some of their concepts into the respective terminologies of my students for the sake of simplicity ("Overdrive" describing a coordination that relies primarily on timbre tuning, "Edge" describing a coordination that primarily relies on twang, "Curbing" describing a coordination that relies primarily on laryngeal tilt, and "Neutral" describing a set of coordinations that rely primarily on airflow), but there is a merit in using a language where one word means exactly one thing (which isn't the case for words like "chest voice", "mixed voice" and "head voice"). As CVT keeps researching and thus constantly evolves, you might not be aware of some of their most recent additions to the method (for example, the concepts of density and falsetto). Even though in my opinion there's still a handful of flaws with the method and I don't consistently use it, I find CVT to be the most accurate and extensive model of the voice we have so far.

@@ToniLinke thank you Toni, this makes a lot of sense! As with most things, the hardest part of learning a skill is getting a good layout of the land as one needs to filter out a lot of noise. Do you do private lessons online? Also, what would be the things you don't like about CVT that you mention?

@@relivoaddad I do teach online! You can find all info and conditions on my website toni-linke.com/lessons :) I think CVT are a bit too dogmatic on the topic of support, in my opinion there's several ways of managing breath pressure that can work well.

I think Kurt Cobain has used various kinds of false fold distortion and even fry screams throughout his career. I usually hear a bit of twang and compression mixed together, but there's also pushy moments especially on Bleach! If you feel stuck with your distortion and regularly get discomfort from it, I recommend taking a lesson with me or any other vocal coach specialized on distortion! :)

@@ToniLinke Thank you for your response. I truly appreciate how quickly you replied! I am just very curious about how to achieve a very small vocal point for high notes, as if the sound is coming from deep within the throat, causing the posterior vocal folds to vibrate. I once saw a demonstration in a laryngoscopy video from a teacher, where the back of the vocal folds tightly closed when hitting high notes, and the epiglottis moved back to cover the glottis, making the phonation area smaller. At this point, the soft palate lifts to increase resonance, but the posterior pharyngeal wall moves up and forward, tightening the phonation area into a tube-like shape. I am curious if your high-note distortion uses a similar technique.

@@tyc3369 I'd have to see that video to be sure I'm doing the same thing

@@ToniLinkeSure. I'd like email the link.

I hear mostly false fold distortion, achieved by twang and a bit of push :)

​@@ToniLinke Thanks Tony for your knowledge! ... Would a singer like Joe Cocker be using the same modes only leaning on his voice harder?

@@arthura8117 yes, but of course he's done a handful of different sounds throughout his career :)

@@ToniLinke This is the last question I will trouble you with if you would be so kind as to tell me if you're familiar with Van Morrison.... and what modes does he use? Thanks again!

@@arthura8117 rattle!

It's kind of basic fry, yes! If you want it to be less tight, you can experiment with more flow (not breathiness! Just less resistance) and maybe starting from a more chesty point. I have some cues for that in episode 3 of my Rough Vocal Effects Revisited series!

M Shadows is a really tricky one because I do hear distortion and creaking too, but with varying amounts of compression and twang, as well as an underlying "huskiness" to the point where it sometimes even sounds like Air Splitting. This huskiness could be an amount of push in the distortion, but that wouldn't really be something that typically makes creaking easier. I think it's easier to look at individual songs and come up with a plan on how to approach the specific sound of a particular phrase, even if it means throughout the discography we need more than one or two techniques.

@@ToniLinke yeah you're right there's varying amounts of compression, also interestingly just noticed in the live performances since the latest album he does a heavy false chord that breaks out into a pitched scream as it seems newish to him or just harder to make it subtle, definitely not what he does on the record. thanks for the insight, may have a lesson with you one day, just trying to get to a really good level with my clean stuff first and effects will be the cherry on top ;)

@@ToniLinke as a side note i think that huskiness if its the one im thinking about, i get that effect when i do the axel rose sort of twangy distortion, as you say probably from the push, happened more on city of evil than now which makes sense as less experience=less control

This can happen because of a couple of reasons: 1) you might be a bit too loud. Often people overestimate the volume of hyper-compression as it can sound quite powerful with a microphone, but doesn't have to be much louder than your small talk voice. 2) You might use too much air flow (which isn't the same as air pressure!) - especially if there's a bit of audible air in the sound, that can limit your hyper-compressed range and dry you out quickly. 3) You might not have the right vocal tract shape for hyper-compression. A lot of people start adding twang too early, in the beginning I recommend going for a very dopey sound so that the body doesn't get confused as to whether it's supposed to set up for hyper-compressed or twangy distortion. I guess I'd have to hear you to be sure which of these problems apply to your case (or whether it's something completely else).

​​​@@ToniLinke thank you, I was surprised at how quickly you responded. It turns out that today when I was in a bad mood I thought of spending my time playing metal and stuff like that, BAD IDEA! Being in this state I didn't pay attention to the technique I was using when singing and I felt my throat hurt. here's a sample from today czcams.com/video/GLMQu3wWLOE/video.htmlsi=KIpNPOEImCwNer7Y I think at 2:40 it was an atonal scream, it hurt me. I want to show a more concrete example of what happens in my case, for now I am frustrated, so I will wait for a good day to do it and send it to you. Thank you very much for answering, greetings from chile ✋🇨🇱

​​​@@ToniLinkewait 1 second!😅 in this other moment I remember wanting to go higher with the hyper-compression but I couldn't beyond that distortion that you can see at minute 1:23, I will record something better for another occasion czcams.com/video/-wdKowFXGhQ/video.htmlsi=f5CqbgoyX9eINbJ5

@@vichoapaleado2116 oh I see! That's not hyper-compression yet! There's some compression there, but not enough for it work like hyper-compression in that range. You can find the feeling of hyper-compression if you actually try to lift a very heavy weight (even something immovable) - don't focus too much on the sound yet as long as the feeling isn't clear. Other cues are: stiffen your abdomen as if you want to prepare for a punch in your belly, pretend you're constipated, and similar images.

Jap, das kann man lernen! Vielleicht nicht an einem Tag, aber grundsätzlich ist das möglich! :)

Some of it sounds like pitched fry screams, but you can also get close to this by doing false fold distortion in falsetto! The more atonal stuff is clearly fry scream, but you can get it with different fry techniques (look at episode 3 of my Rough Vocal Effects Revisited series for that!), not sure which singer does which sounds.

@@ToniLinke ohhh I see. Thank you! And how can I avoid getting into the regular creaking when increasing the volume with the fry??

@@Bararaian whether the creaking is regular or irregular seems to be about a very specific balance of pressure and flow. It seems that when you increase the volume, you lose that balance, so either the flow gets too big or the pressure gets too low. You can also use some tricks to "grip" the irregular creaking a bit more, like adding false fold distortion or raising the tongue.

@@ToniLinke woah it actually kind of worked haha, now I gotta practice Thank you for the advice!!! I wish you a very great day :)

Maybe Chris Cornell was doing it slightly differently from what I'm doing here, we'll never know for sure! Some people say he was quite loud in his early days, but I find I get closer to his sound if I don't approach it from a belt.

@@ToniLinke Well whatever you are doing it sounds great. I've seen lots of vocal coaches on youtube talk about this using similar terminology but you are the first one i've seen who can really back it up with demo performances. Other will say "this doesn't sound quite the same but it is more sustainable and healthy" and that might be the case, but you don't sound like you are compromising anything with regards to the sound you achieve and it looks like you could keep that up for a whole show with no problems. Thank you for replying to my comment, hopefully you'll have some slots in the near future for private lessons.

@@MartyCMega88 I have some slots in May and June, and I'll add July slots soon! Just reserve one in the online calendar on my website toni-linke.com :)

Auf Einladung komme ich gern mal vorbei! Ist nur schwierig, in einer Stadt wo man noch nicht so viele Leute kennt, allein was zu organisieren :)