Life is Strange Before the Storm: 8 Things That Made Us Go HMMM (SPOILERS)
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS - Luke and Jane dish on the moments from Life is Strange Before the Storm that had them gasping at the screen. From unanswered questions to Rachel Amber's true nature, we wrestle with Before the Storm's biggest issues in this cathartic spoiler-chat.
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IMMENSE SPOILER CHAT! Jane and Luke wade into Life is Strange Before the Storm to figure out Rachel's true nature, what choice to make at the end and what Frank's like, whole deal is. Enjoy, and let us know your thoughts and theories in the comments!
Outside Xtra should they make a one punch man movie
Outside Xtra I love these game discussion podcasts things you do for games you love.
The last point i disagree with because i really think there might be something supernatural with rachel because in chloe's second dream you can see her on fire which i think indicates that she has some link with fire and when she kicked the bucket of fire over and then screamed its like she made the fire much bigger than it was supposed to be then in the 3rd episode after Rachel is stabbed and near death walking past the firemen on the bench talking you can hear one of them say that the huge wildfire suddenly just stopped like it just ceased to exist without any reason after all the things the firemen did to try and stop it, so i think maybe rachel has some kind of connection with fire due to what we saw and heard throughout the game.
I love you guys tho great video ❤
Jamall: yeah... it's weird how it spread so fast. It only makes sense if it's unnatural or the tree had been soaked in gasoline...
Rachel Amber is a polar opposite to Max Caulfield. I don't think she's intentionally manipulative, but she's WILDLY inconsiderate of Chloe's well-being.
Nick Troutman I’ve been thinking that a lot too. As much as I loved Rachel, she seemed very manipulative and didn’t really mind putting chloe in dangerous situations to get something out of it
Rachel is not manipulative on purpose... she's not evil, she's just tremendously charismatic, but very insecure too, so she needed a partner who could lift her up, her life was really hard to bear it alone. (PS: I hope I wrote in a good grammar, english is not my first language)
@@alessandrocorvaia3262 Why do you reckon she would cheat on Chloe with Frank and Mark Jefferson?
Alessandro Corvaia shes a lot like her mother. She could have all the love in the world, but it never filled her want and need to escape. And she’s a lot like her father too, manipulative and deceitful. She’s definitely manipulative on purpose, I doubt you could just be blind to the fact that you’re using people for what you want, without having any feelings for them at all whatsoever. Her charisma and beauty is just her way of blinding people into loving her, if they get too close they’ll get burned.
@@charlizelizabeth Yeah only she isn't as extreme as her mom. Her mom used drugs to try and escape and Rachel just wants to escape Arcadia Bay
Chloe loves who Rachel was, Rachel loved the way Chloe made her feel.
That's fucking deep and I don't know if it should be backwards the other way around or just what I'm confused but this is so fucking true
this is accurate af
yep
Well said
I think Rachel was just an illusion to fill the void of Max leaving and that's why Chloe attached to her so much. I think her heart has always truly been for Max.
I have a theory about the supernatural elements with this game. Obviously, we all know about the Raven, but I'm here to talk about Rachel. Rachel AMBER can control fire.
When Rachel starts the fire, wind and leaves can be seen as she yells in despair. The fire grows so fast, considering it came from a trash can. It literally took only seconds for the fire to completely cover the tree. Rachel's powers must be dependent on her well-being.
Next, is the prophetic raven dream we have in EP 2. Rachel can be understood as the fire. "You're so drawn to it, you don't even realize the danger... Fire blinds with beauty." Chloe is so drawn to Rachel that she doesn't know how destructive of a person she could be. Rachel blinds people with her beauty, making others do what she wants ALL THE TIME.
After that, in the dinner scene towards the end of Ep 2, Rachel mutes out the noise of everyone arguing. She is furious. The zoom in on her face is careful to have something else in the shot: the lit candles. With each shot, you can see the flames on the candles growing.
Lastly, we have when Rachel gets stabbed. When you get to the hospital and you're in the hallway, the firefighters say something. "The fire just extinguished itself." Fires don't extinguish themselves. They burn out. But once Rachel was stabbed, the fire stopped. This was (to me) the most concrete evidence in my head as to why Rachel has powers over fire.
Thnx for reading 🙂
MAXIMUS beautiful theory
I guess she is "Rachel EMBER"
Great theory! Plus, there were 3 references to dragons in the game, that I can think of. One in the message board (Q: what could have started the fire? A: a dragon in arcadia bay), second in an optional tee shirt, and most importantly when Simon refers to Rachel as a dragon full or made of diamonds.
🐉🐉🐉
woah... wait so Rachel got powers and I didn’t-
Sean Diaz lmaooooo
I like how this video is called "Things That Made Us Go HMMM" and it ends up being 42 minutes of you professing your love for Before the Storm.
I'm not sure 42 minutes would be sufficient for me lol
I think part of the whole phone call was to do exactly what you guys said. To make Amber into 'that girl in the missing poster' again. The whole of Before The Storm is about Rachel and Chloe's relationship and the influence they've had on each other's lives and surely the most devastating thing to happen to someone you love - on top of being murdered - is to watch them just become an object, a thing, a name and a face on a poster that everyone has gotten so accustomed to seeing that in Life Is Strange, not that many people seem genuinely worried about Rachel or finding her.
For me, it just made Chloe's story more tragic.
She (and you as the player) spent all this time with a beautifully fleshed out persona only to have her reduced to 'that girl in the missing poster' when we know and Chloe knows that Rachel was much more than that. :)
Agreed.
I was genuinely intrigued by Rachel during LIS but I really never connected or cared that much. Same with Chloe's outbursts and bad decisions in the first game. But after playing BTS and see the life of Rachel and her relationship with Chloe, I can totally understand LIS Chloe even more. I liked Rachel a lot in BTS and to finally understand why Chloe was hell-bent in searching for Rachel feels more painful to me as a player now that we have seen a glimpse of what they had together.
That's so deep... Personally, I was happy with the ending, but more as closing the book on their story. Like watching a meteor fly through the sky, only to hit the earth and become just a smouldering piece of rock.
I fully agree with this.
starhanie *gently cries one tear into my tea mug*
Warren was sweet and understanding, and seemed to want to be a good friend regardless of Max's interest or lack of, whereas Eliot acted like Chloe's affections were his right by virtue of persistence. One of those guys who think the girls don't like them because they're awkward, but it's actually because girls keep picking up the Norman Bates vibes. So, I called the police on him.
Samuel Lightwing I loved warren. I felt that max and warren were more closely matched together than Chloe and max. Eliot was just kind of a psycho and I avoided him through the game. I could tell something was off, and I failed the calling the police scene and I was so worried
I friendzoned Warren as much as i could lol. He was so cringeworthy.
I went with warren in lis (because hes alot like me) but with elliot i gave him a shot and failed the 911 call i thought i was gonna die
Also elliot is a stalker
Warren watches you through your window in LIS (episode 2, I think?). He dumps Brooke for Max if you agree to go to the movie with him. He talks about getting laid by Max. He holds Alyssa during the Kate-time-freeze scene. He’s into reallyyyy creepy films and finds them “hilarious.” If you go into his locker at the pool, he has a photo of him and Max that Max didn’t know about. He has so much creepy dialogue for you to pick up on. Not to mention, Brooke “jokes” that he placed a GPS tracker on Max. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he did.
How does a video game really let you feel what a character is feeling, the sudden, confusing, anger filled sudden loss of a friend with no explanation?
By putting that phone ringing scene in.
They gut stab you with that knife and twist it, so you can feel what Chloe will feel. Happiness and contentment, followed by immeasurable anger and nausea. It's brilliant, it's unnecessary, it hurts, and therefore it's perfect.
Also, when Rachel is unconscious in the Hospital, the firefighters get a phone call that says the fire randomly went out, without explanation. She was fueling the fire!
Very well said. 👏
So maybe it was just me but at the end of the first episode of life is strange I kinda remember just seeing Rachel's name. Not like her full name but just Rachel when it did the slow pan on the books/albums at the end of the episode.
Was max's hurricane supposed to wipe out Chloe's love for Rachel? 😝
Just an FYI about the super insensitive scene at the end of the game. I played before the storm before the original game, and did not see that coming. when i saw the phone it filled me with a sense of horror and confusion. as a result my experience of life is strange was probably different to everyone else. because i genuinely had no idea what was going to happen to her. and when i saw the posters I felt the character and the dread from the end of before the storm. if it had been release in the opposite order I feel like it would have been a phenomenal cliff hanger.
That's awesome. Your playthrough of LIS must've been good then.
Who plays the Prequal first
i also played the prequel first i feel exactly the same about it
I did this as well!
Playing the Prequel first is more heartbreaking because you got attached to Rachel before finding out what exactly would happen to her.
And then when you play the original game you think maybe you can save her somehow. You do have time travel, after all. And then when it turns out that you can't that makes it all much, much worse.
The phone scene? Because everything in Life is Strange is designed to rip your heart out.
Kill your best friend or hundreds/thousands of people?
Let your best friend find out the truth and emotionally scar them, or lie to them to protect them essentially agreeing with everything their father did?
It is probably the most invested I have been in a game and genuinely conflicted by those final decisions. Like I said, it rips your heart out.
And I still love it.
*rips your heart out*
"You won't be needing this!"
I think that adds something to games like this. It's very iconic to have hard decisions like that. It adds a ton to the story.
I will say I didn't struggle especially with the final choices in LiS or BtS. In LiS, I figured Chloe is pretty punk, but even she'd be emotionally scarred forever if she knew that thousands of people, including her own mother, died so she could live. In BtS, I just thought the dad was a murderer and if he'd murder one woman in cold blood, there's no telling where he'd stop if he felt he needed to kill again. Heck, you know his secret now. Why wouldn't he kill you?
That said, I also saved Zoë instead of Mia in Resi7 (and still believe it was the right call), so I get that not a lot of people think the same as me.
"If you're gonna hit him, KEEP ON HITTING HIM!" Never change, Jane. Never change.
Samuel Lightwing #Lifehacks
Always double-tap. Two to the chest, one to the brain.
But that's 3 taps...
Right; double-tap the chest, and then they get a bonus in the head for safety. You shoot center mass twice to knock them off their feet and once in the brain pan, to make sure.
It's actually one of the first things I learned in Krav Maga. When someone just punches you, you hit him at least 3 times (Counter-attack, punishment, fun). If that guy seriously wants to hurt you, you hit him until you're sure he won't get up.
The ending of the game I thought was good
It gives you that happiness then gives you that awful sting of sadness in your gut when you see just the phone ringing... I feel you took that scene wrong, it wasn’t the devs winking at you off camera, that scene is putting in place chloe’s desperation for Rachel and that then carries over into the main game if you replay that, you know chloe was upset and panicking... it just makes it feel real... we don’t need to be protected from feeling sad and real, it’s part of playing the games
I disagree.
I thought that randomly skipping to some future event that takes place three years later, instead of tying up all the loose ends this game already had, really hurt the story.
They should have had a proper ending for the Sera/James plot in this game, seeing as neither of them appear in the first game.
And that happy friendship montage at the end, was pretty shallow.
This game succeeds in splitting opinions like this. I thought it just brought everything back to the reality of life is strange, I thought it was strong but it worked for me! We may already know it, but it just remind us that there is no happy ending for them..
Yeah, we already know what happens to Rachel & Chloe.
But what about all the side characters like Mikey, Drew, Steph and Samantha?
Or Rachels parents?
They just straight up cease to exist between this game and LIS,(with zero explanation) and thats really frustrating from a writing stand point.
LazerzZ I think it also demonstrated how happy she was when she was with her, and how sad and terrified Chloe was of losing her
LazerzZ fully agree
I ADORED that tonal shift right at the end. It was a reminder of the finality of this character, no matter what you went through in this prequal is the harsh reality is that the result is bitter and disgusting.
I agree Back..... The game stared to leave you on a note of a happy ending, deep down we all know that aint the case, the ending just smacked you in the face with the cold reality that its not a happy ending... I really wish there was some way in the game (life is strange that I could have prevent Rachel's death.)
Nah is a shitty end
BlackearacheXD right?!?! It hurt so good!!!
@@ericdraven7185 Even tho the developers confirmed her death i still like to think, that my own little alternative theory as to how she could still be alive, makes sense.
So to begin, i hope you remember Samantha? The girl who was extremely close to Nathan and probably had a crush on him, in before the storm. I suspect that she was the first victim of him and Jefferson since she was the easiest "pray", and that is very likely because you never get to see or hear about her in the first game. It could be that the bag in the junkyard is actually her and NOT Rachel. When Rachel was kidnapped and drugged, she was indeed overdosed and had a cardiac arrest, which made her pulse weak temporarily, something that made Nathan think she died. He quickly run to tell Jefferson and in a state of panic, they didn't check to see in she was actually dead or not. They took her to the junkyard to bury her right next to Samantha so no one would find her body. Right there and then, Sera who had been looking for Rachel, for a couple of days, after she was kidnapped, caught them "on action" and tried to stop them, Rachel immediately got her senses back and with the dizziness blurring her vision, she run into the woods in a fury. Sera managed to get away from the two men and run after Rachel. In the end she found her & they both hid into some place private, Sera was living. They stayed there for some time till Rachel gets sober and back to her feet again, and until the two criminals were out of sight. When Arcadia bay was destroyed, Rachel decided to get out of her safety, now being better and while making her way out of the road, she saw Max & Chloe in their car after so many months. After that i leave it to your imagination.
BlackearacheXD Exactly, the reality isn’t so nice... I mean the title people life is ]confusing and harsh sometimes]. Anyways, people don’t realize the true ending is in LiS1 and that leaves off on a very bitter-sweet ending (THE CORRECT ending is sacrificing Chloe, the other ending not even Max is happy, she’s actually devastated and Chloe gets her wish, but not in the way she wanted).
Without this prequel how would we know where she got 'hella' from?!?! The true mystery
LifeIsABeach3210 Ive been saying it more since this game lol
Rachel, did have supernatural powers, after she started the fire it was fuelled by her through the next two episodes, after she was stabbed the fire just went out. To me it seems as though the fuel was fuelled by her emotions.
If you take a look at Max as well, the power to rewind time fit perfectly with how she lived her life afraid to move forward and her powers allowed her to relive the same moment again and again preserving the world in a bubble that she could control.
So I believe that Rachel and Max had powers and they matched their own emotions, pain, hate, anger (Passion, Rachel) and Max with fear of loss and the pain that goes a long with it. To the point where she tries to save Chloe's dad and then returns to save Chloe after the unintended consequences.
Jesus, finally, someone. Also Chloe's father hints at this, making a direct comparison of Rachel and the fire. Besides, there's various comments across the game about the fire being "unnatural", lasting too long etc.
The fire never goes out - you just see an area it's moved through. But *correlation is not causation.* The fire is a metaphorical storytelling device.
The two firefighters in the hospital mention that the fire has somehow extinguished itself.
Also, at the dinner table. The flames on the candles clearly rise when she is about to lose it.
Yes - in the hospital before visiting Rachel you can listen to the 2 firefighters, one says the fire went out. The other asks "you mean it's controlled" "No, it just went out, it extinguished itself. I've never seen anything like it" (or something to that effect) So they clearly ARE trying to tie the fire to Rachel in some mystical way but not blatantly - wither they scrapped that angle or was told to change it who knows but it is still there if you read between the lines.
Am I the only one who thinks people are too harsh on warren?
Seriously he gets too much flak.
Well he does
But no offense
He's kinda creepy
I love Warren. He deserves to be loved.
@Famous FOREVER That's terrible. I mean I'll admit sometimes he tries too hard for Max but he's genuinely just a good guy.
@Famous FOREVER I love Chloe but I definitely don't ship her with Max. Max is too good. Trust me when I say I absolutely love Chloe but honestly she's a terrible person.
@Famous FOREVER I mean that's actually kinda crazy but you might be onto something. I'll consider the possibility of my man warren in this love trifecta of yours.
for me it was the opposite with the eliot/warren thing. i knew from the beginning that eliot was going to be That Guy and that something was going to happen with him eventually where he'd corner her and bring on the inquisition. i didn't get any bad vibes with warren. you could tell he liked max, that was obvious, but he didn't seem like he was going to push her. he was genuinely, honestly, her friend first and he only cared that she was happy. sure, he would've been disappointed that she didn't want to be with him, but he puts her happiness first because he's a kind and caring friend, and he's really loyal to max. i immediately trusted him and i thought he was adorable, even though i knew my gay ass would choose chloe over him when it came down to romantic interests. however, eliot scared me from the beginning because i knew he was going to be That Guy: the "nice guy" who pushes and pushes until he just snaps because the girl he's been so nice to isn't interested. 100% called the police on his ass with no remorse. it didn't strike me as a "twist" at all.
Yeah, the writing was completely different.
cloud nine Thumbs up for "my gay ass"
Agreed. I absolutely was in love with Warren, but I called from the very beginning that Eliot was a freak.
also max was bi. chloe was a lesbian
I definitely saved the town over Chloe. I didn’t see it as killing my friend as I saw it as letting her go.
I see Life is Strange as Max just refusing to accept her own choices. Chloe was always dead, Max just needed to accept it.
Wow, I love how you worded this it's given me a whole new perspective. Thanks! I'm always gonna choose bae over bay but I like the idea you've raised :)!
Omae Wo Mo Shinderu.
Trans Stoner Chick! It’s not that Max didn’t care about Chloe, she was just shit at long distance friendship. Lots of people are.
You just take a little too long to get in contact with a friend and now you don’t have a good reason why it’s been so long. So you put it off, and now it’s really awkward and it becomes easier to ignore it.
But the whole time, there is this part of you that thinks you can always fix it. You can always just man up (woman up as it were), apologize and rekindle that friendship.
But before Max could do that, Chloe dies. And she never got to rekindle that friendship, never got to find out what her friend was like, never got to apologize for being a shit.
And that was the whole game. Max gets to know Chloe, she gets to make up for lost time. She gets to help her friend, she gets to apologize, she gets to make amends.
I always liked the "save the town" ending better because during the game, you're focused a lot on figuring out what happened to Rachel and why everything is so supernatural. It's interspersed with Max and Chloe hanging out, going swimming and reconnecting. Saving the town, I felt like reconnecting with Chloe and getting to know her through those last few days was what was really important. And there's a tinge of melancholy when you realize that in the final timeline, the last time Chloe saw Max was five years ago. Also, I like stories where people sacrifice themselves for people they love.
*girlfriend
"Everybody lies, no exceptions." -Written on Chloe's room.
Life is strange: Victoria is in arts
Life is strange BTS: Victoria is in science
Life is really strange
tbf (and I'm going off of my UK schooling knowledge here) in BTS, aren't they in high school? Where you have to do science, English and maths + other subjects. In LiS, they're in college (if I understand correctly).
Whether or not it was a "good idea" to have the cell phone scene at the end of the game, I do genuinely believe the reason they did it was as a response to certain online theories that had become rather popular in the lead up to episode 3's release. There was a segment of the LiS community that wholeheartedly believed that there was going to be a canon split revealed in either ep. 3 or in the upcoming Farewell episode in which you'd be able to save Rachel either through some unforeseen "a wizard did it" event, or through Max's time travel powers. And I'm of the opinion that they put that gun punch post-credits scene in as a way of sort of reminding everyone that no, you can't save her no matter how much you wish it were so. Reminding everyone that the point of BtS is the emotional journey, for better or worse, rather than a magical undo button.
Was this the best way to handle that? Probably not. But I can say that I, at a minimum, believe that the intention behind it was not mean-spirited.
My view of Rachel is also that she's not intentionally manipulative. She really comes across like a force of nature, and people - especially people like Chloe - just get caught up in her and dragged along for the ride.
Jane and Luke both agree a relationship built on a lie cant be healthy, but a relationship kept alive by letting a town full of people die would be alright and is the "right choice" things that make me go *hmmm*
👏👏👏👏
Are you really surprised about Jane?
But no one is lied to in that situation?
If you kill all the witnesses, it counts as stealth right?
I agree with you completely.
I don't think Rachel was genuine at all. She seems to have a very self centered personality that keeps her from truly caring about other people, no matter how much they may do for her. When she sets that fire, like they said she never mentions it. She never says anything along the lines of "what have I done I've put so many people in danger." Nothing like that at all. She puts Chloe in an impossible situation in the hospital and I can almost guarantee that if Chloe had refused to help her she would have said something like "I knew you never really cared" to guilt trip Chloe. Even in the neighborhood scene when Chloe asks for a kiss, Rachel never says that she feels the same way about Chloe. She never says that she had been waiting for that moment too. She just says "is that convincing enough." Making it feel like she kissed Chloe only to get what she wanted, which was a partner that could help her chances of survival when she left Acadia bay. She never said "I cant leave if you don't come with me". And after all of these events, after everything Chloe has done for her and said to her, she gets into a relationship with Frank behind Chloe's back. And it's heavily implied in the first game that she also had at least a sexual relationship with Mr. Jefferson. Frank genuinely loved Rachael and thought that she loved him back, just like Chloe did. In my opinion, the way Rachel treated Chloe was not anything special, it was a means to an end. Whether that was to have a street smart partner with her after she left the bay, or if she just wanted to hang out with Chloe because she was bored. Chloe wasn't the first person for her to just throw away despite everything they had done. She did the same thing to her mom when she found out she wasn't her biological mother. I'm not going to call her a sociopath, but I think she's borderline. 100% pricefield forever.
For the record, I saved Acadia bay, not Chloe. The way I understood life is strange is that you have to accept shitty things in your life, no matter how much you may dislike it. Chloe was meant to die, so she enevitablly should. You can't escape from your past, and going back to try to change them is only going to cause you and other people a lot more hurt, aka the storm. I guess if you decide to save Chloe you're saying "fuck fate I do what I want" but at what cost? The death of Chloe's parents? That she seems totally okay with? Nah. I think that ending taints their relationship. Chloe understood that she needed to die, and was willing to accept that fate for max, and everybody else.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
xXSilverSparrow32Xx Nobody is talking about the choice you make when you first meet Rachel: whether you believe in soul mates. The fire and Rachel represent love. Chloe's feelings for Rachel are a fire raging within her, which eventually burns her. That begs the question of what love really is. Is Rachel burning for Chloe too? Rachel finds out her family is a lie, she gets stabbed and almost dies, etc. And Chloe experiences the fire of love. They both get hurt, and they both get something for it - and love is about binding your faith to another person, where you both think the other person is worth suffering for.
All these people who think a 15 year old girl is playing life like a game of chess and is 15 steps ahead, controlling people... Come on. She's a kid. She wants one thing one minute and another the next. That doesn't make her a sociopath.
Rachel also admits that she has feelings for Chloe, something which you've ignored here. In the first ep, if you choose just friendship in the junkyard, Rachel will say, "Is that all?" sounding rather disappointed. Then when they meet up again that night, Rachel will say something to the effect of I know you see this as just a friendship, but I think it's something more. So. Yeah. She likes Chloe. There's also a version of the neighborhood scene in ep 2 where Chloe says she isn't sure if she wants to date Rachel, they kiss, and Rachel says she'd like to go "that direction" if it's okay with Chloe. And if it isn't, Rachel will simply say hey, that's okay.
Which brings me to the hospital. You really think Rachel would guilt trip this girl she has an incredible bond with if she chose not to put herself in danger?? I am kind of grossed out by the fact that Rachel asks that of Chloe at all--that I will say is manipulative. But she also put her life on the line for Chloe by shoving Damon the second he touched her. Like come on. Who would shove a murderous drug dealer to the ground for someone they didn't care about? But yeah, if Chloe had declined, I'm sure Rachel would have been very disappointed. But Rachel says it herself if you lie to her at the end. She's still determined to find Sera no matter what and I'm sure she would respect Chloe's decision, just like she does in the neighborhood scene when Chloe isn't sure of what she wants out of their relationship.
Then the Frank/Jefferson thing. That does throw me for a loop. It feels like the Rachel they wrote in LIS backed BTS Rachel into a corner. I feel like the writers didn't quite know what they wanted from Rachel because originally she was only supposed to be a missing girl with dark secrets. The girl she is in BTS is nothing like that, though. Ultimately I do think too much is left up to speculation here, especially because Chloe's original VA said that in LIS, Chloe's feelings for Rachel are unrequited. In BTS, though, we see that's not the case. There's even a leaked photo of the developers writing "Is Rachel good?" on a whiteboard, showing that *they're* not even sure about Rachel at this point. They really backed themselves into a corner writing Rachel the way they did the first time.
Rachel may end up with Frank and maybe even Jefferson, but without knowing why, it's hard to say she never cared about Chloe. I mean, polyamorous people exist. Sure, it's messed up that she did all of this behind Chloe's back, but again: she's a kid. They fuck up, get scared, and don't want to tell the truth because they're scared of the consequences.
TL, DR: Rachel isn't a sociopath, she shows clear concern and romantic feelings toward Chloe, but the writing from the original game ultimately fudges up everything and makes Rachel to be a horrible person that she may not even be.
sounds a lot like my love life...
I agree.
finally someone who said it!! Rachel was only thinking about herself and not treating Chloe the way she deserved it.. i think if we would be able to see what happened in those three years between the two games more people would see Rachel differently because we see how she got together with Frank and Mr. Jefferson! and YES she was burning down a whole forest and never talking about it again..
About the supernatural, i think they really teased a connection between rachel having a superpower and the fire because in the hospital, when you hear the two injured firemen speak, they say something like "the fire just suddenly stopped as if someone sucked the life out of it" and it fits with rachel nearly dying due to the knive attack.
Its only a small hint, but i was kinda surprised when i heard it the first time in the hospital.
Btw great video, it was really cool hearing your opinions about this very emotional game, thank you
Chloe's father also compares Rachel to the fire.
David has a heart of gold! Do you not remember when he took down a serial killer to protect Chloe in the original game? Why am I the only one defending him?
Yeah David was a total ass but he really was just trying to protect people.
He's an interesting character, and I had sympathy for him, but I can completely understand Jane's feelings.
I like him too, he's doing his best to connect with the family
Because he was abusive and couldn't understand why Chloe was the way she was. I haven't been through what she went through, but seeing her act out, I still somehow empathised with her...and what she needed was love, not "discipline".
@Rhian, Same bro. Even if he supposedly cares about Chloe and tries to save her in the end, he's an abusive and toxic parent and husband. I mean fuck, he was recording his family without their permission, and (optionally) backhands Chloe in LiS.
I chose to protect Rachel from the truth because we’ve seen what Rachel will do when she’s angry or is upset, and I don’t think that she is as honest with Chloe unless it’s convenient for her as she’d want others to be with her.
Before we even learn about Rachel’s father’s affair and she is still only suspicious about it, Rachel is willing to skip school, from which she’s a star pupil, convince Chloe to also skip school, and then drag Chloe along on a train ride for hours to an unfamiliar place, just to see if her suspicions are true. And then after they are confirmed (sort of), she is in such a rage that she lights the forest on fire (not intentional, but she doesn’t seem to regret it) and she is willing to run away from home with someone she just met the night before. Imagine what she could’ve done if she was told what her dad actually did.
Rachel is also manipulative of Chloe in when she chooses when to tell Chloe the truth. I’d imagine Chloe wouldn’t have went with Rachel on that trip that day if Rachel said, “Hey, wanna come help me see if my dad is cheating on my mom?” She knew Chloe wouldn’t have come, so she stayed vague about her reason for going. Later on, in Life is Strange, we find out that Rachel had had a relationship with Frank, and started doing some dangerous drugs, all without Chloe ever knowing, so that’s more dishonesty between them.
Rachel did not seem like the Star pupil and person that everyone made her out to be to me, so maybe I’m bias, but I didn’t find it hard to lie to her. I thought that lies can sometimes be good for people, and I wouldn’t exactly be betraying Rachel if I did.
Is that enough?
[Spoilers] I liked that last shot on the phone. It was a reminder of what Rachel was saying at the beginning, that everything is transitory & the stars are already long dead (annoyingly not true, but the sentiment stands) but that doesn't mean that their light is any less bright once it reaches us. It's an important lesson to learn about loss and grief and the realisation that, however much you love somebody or something, it won't be around forever but that doesn't lessen the effect it had on you whilst it was there.
People enjoy shying away from thinking about death and mortality & anything that forces people to face up to that & think about it a bit will help that person develop.. or they'll go completely off the rails, but that's a minor amount of collateral damage under the circumstances.
Night Cat for real I flipped when I heard the camera snap
It's interesting that I've repeatedly heard you guys talk about how the choice of sacrificing Chloe was a betrayal of the message of "time powers and love conquers all" because the game to me seemed like it was peddling the opposite message. Every time you tried to save Chloe you either made things worse cosmically for the town or personally for her. It very much seemed like the game was telling you that trying to save Chloe would just lead to more and more of this sort of timeline lifedebt piling up and that no matter where you went the world would just keep trying to kill Chloe however it could, turning Max and Chloe into basically fugitives from time. Letting Chloe die the way she was originally supposed to is almost a cosmic mercy kill compared to that.
As for theories; I'm definitely of the belief that there are supernatural powers in BtS, it's not necessarily that people in Arcadia Bay have powers, but that there's a supernatural power around Arcadia Bay that people are able to tap in to, I think Rachael does that with the fire, and I also think the tornado isn't actually as a result of Max interfering with time, but it's actually caused by Chloe. You look at the emotions that Rachael and Chloe go through when these happen; Rachael finds out her father has been lying to her, and Chloe finds out that Rachael is dead, they both lead to anger and a want of destruction, and the power answers with destruction. Max's trigger moment isn't a feeling of anger though, but of regret, and a want to change things, and the power returns with the ability to change things. There's a couple of other things that really push in the direction of Rachael's power, where you overhear people speaking about how unnaturally destructive the fire is, and then in Ep3 when Rachael is in the hospital, how the fire seemed to stop instantly at that point in an unnatural way.
Obviously, none of this is canonical (not like Chloe definitely surviving in S01 for instance) but it's the way I read into it; and I think it's great that a game which is so much about story can have people thinking in very different ways.
Chris Parker I really hope that they read your theory, because it makes a bunch of sense. I never thought of the tornado storm being an effect the equivalent of Rachel's fire, but for Chloe. It makes *so* much sense, though. This hasssss to be canon.
Chris Parker I also got that impression, I mean there's the thing with the native american territory, the raven and the spirit animals, Im sure there are some mysteries there
Alicia Rivas It at least makes up for dropping the fact Rachel just used the wind for fires and never going back to it.
Don’t forget her awesome screaming powers, too!
Also note that the fire stops abruptly and completely *right* as Rachel is comforted by her father in the hospital and he makes her feel safe.
Just a little theory, but I think there is something out of the ordinary with Rachel Amber. Think about the timing of things. Rachel dies and Max all of a sudden gets time powers that solve the murder and (potentially) saves Chloe. Was there something supernatural about Rachel that allowed for Chloe to reconnect with an old friend, obtain closure about Rachel, and continue living as a sort of gift from beyond the grave? Feel free to prove or disprove me, but that's an idea buzzing around my skull about this whole deal.
Nice profile pic man
I agree, I definitely think she's out of the ordinary. I do think that she does have some supernatural ability, though there isn't really a focus on it. I also think that she was supposed to represent the spirit deer in the first game, and her passing on her abilities (or at least the ability to wield supernatural powers to Max) makes a lot of sense. I mean Max first gets her powers in the process of trying to save Chloe's life. Rachel - obviously - would not want Chloe to die, so handing off powers then and there would make a lot of sense in that perspective.
When she gets angry in the first episode and starts the fire I got a very supernatural vibe too!
I'm not sure, while because of Rachel and Max getting Time powers does allow Chloe to reconnect with Max, finally accept Rachael's death and her own, she doesn't keep all those feelings if you kill her. If it were for Max, well that doesn't make sense either cuz Rachel doesn't know Max
She has heard of Max and Chloe's friendship before. She knows they used to be friends, but now they've put some distance between each other. There may be some spiritual stuff going on that would allow Rachel to sort of seek out Max. Like r0bE0 said, that doe in Max's visions might be some sort of representation of Rachel. If there is some spiritual stuff, then perhaps there is a chance that Chloe would still be able to maybe view the alternate timelines where Max was a great friend even in death. I don't think those other timelines cease to be since, for Max, every one of them is kept as a memory.
Okay, so I saved the town because:
If you don’t it’s earlier in the time line and therefore none of the bad stuff happens. Our villain is caught, no one else is murdered, Kate doesn’t try to or succeed in killing herself etc.
If you save Chloe, our bad guy (trying to avoid spoilers) is still in his murder basement and a okay, no witnesses, gets away with killing everyone else: Rachel, Victoria, Nathan recently and everyone before that. And I think it’s really deciding if finding out who killed Rachel is worth it, because otherwise Rachel never gets justice. And I think Chloe would hate living knowing that no one would ever know what happened to her friends?
Like, it just seemed the best choice because no one else died and Chloe was gonna die anyway. So you got to spend some time together and bring her joy, help her work out the mystery, but ultimately she asks you to sacrifice her and I feel like she’s on a trajectory that would end in misery otherwise? Maybe I’m just spitballing though.
I totally agree! Even if this is the last time the world tries to kill Chloe (which it might be, I can't remember if it's ever stated that this is the end of the universe correcting itself), she still has to live with the fact that her being alive caused the deaths of basically everyone she's ever known. No way is that a good life for her.
Max would obviously be fine because she's a little... manipulative, is probably the best word, but Chloe, post storm? That's a life I absolutely would not want to live.
I know this is a very old comment, but I had to chime in.
I chose to sacrifice Chloe because even though I grew to like her character (even though I disliked a lot about her), I sort of assumed that the cycle of her death would start over again. I know we're meant to believe that the hurricane is the universe course correcting and making up for Chloe not dying, but in a game all about rebirth, cycles and death, I thought the cycle would start over.
Neither option is good, in my opinion because of one glaring issue. Max in the darkroom. She presumably keeps all her memories if you choose to let Chloe die, but in the reality that she chooses to stay in, she was never in the dark room. So she has had this horrific experience being taken advantage of, assaulted, drugged, etc but it technically never happened if you let Chloe die. So what's she supposed to do? IIRC, Jefferson and Nathan get arrested but Max's pictures weren't taken so if she goes to a therapist chances are they'll take it as a lie.
Keep the truth from Rachel: she eventually finds out, feels betrayed, goes to Frank, Jefferson etc.
Tell Rachel the truth: She loses her shit, goes to Frank, Jefferson etc.
Lying to Rachel is the choice that makes the most sense story wise.
Chloe lies to Rachel,
Frank tells Rachel the truth,
Rachel resents Chloe
Rachel starts hanging out with Frank because he's the only one that never lies to her
Rachel goes off the rails
Loved the video guys. Do more ;D
Alternatively, I thought telling her the truth made more sense as it explained why Rachel's parents are completely absent from the original game. Very good point though.
35Antonio that doesn’t make sense because this would imply that Rachel hates Chloe for lying to her and they would have stop talking if she had found out. However Rachel clearly feels bad about lying to Chloe hence the Letter she had written but never given to Chloe. If what you Theory suggest was true she wouldn’t care about Chloe’s feelings she wouldn’t have even wrote the letter you Theory suggest Rachel would hate Chloe, and if this was the case when Rachel went missing Chloe wouldn’t care because “ she’s just like everyone else she left me and acted like she cared I tried to protect her but she hated me for it FUCK HER she left town without me like Max did Fuck her” that would be how Chloe sees it so she wouldn’t even bother looking for Rachel. If you choose not to tell Rachel she never finds out, but she’s still abducted by Nathan, and Jefferson. However it’s possible the “Tell Her Everything” Ending is the Cannon one because telling her the Truth is what sends her down that path. In her Eyes her dads dead to her, and that makes her and Chloe bound more because of it. This ending makes sense as the most cannon one. Because her fathers lie is what set her down the spiral to start doing drugs, fucking Jefferson, dating Frank, and still having Chloe as a friend. Even though I chose the lie option I feel the “Tell Her Everything” Ending is probably the Cannon one.
I have they said what the canon ending to LIS is?
The thing is, it actually completely changes the context of Chloe's reaction to Rachel's relationship with Frank in the first game. Chloe is furious at Rachel for withholding the truth, even if it would have hurt their relationship. If Chloe lied to Rachel, it's another example of her hypocrisy (like her belief in gun control) between her actions and ideals, but if she told the truth she has every right to be angry.
There is no LiS canon.
Rachel: *hits Damien with wood plank*
Also Rachel: Well I’ve done all I can do.
Okay, I literally got up and screamed at the TV during that scene. The game ONLY gives you the choice to tell him off. It's almost like they could have avoided the whole thing and Rachel wouldn't have gotten stabbed if they answered his simple question he kept asking over and over; "Sera is my mom"
>tiny 5'1" girl attacking a 6'3" man with stabby tendencies.
I admire your passion...but
@@myopiniongoodyouropinionbad She could have beatn him with that plank, she was fast when she attacked for him to take out the knife, but then she just stopped (?).
Damon*
Sorry to be that person.
banananana I have an intense hatred for you
I thought the phone scene was quite masterful and well thought out because in LIS, we only see Rachel as the dead girl and she only really exists as a name on a poster and as a plot point for Chloe’s character development. However in BTS, we see Rachel as a wonderful fully fleshed out character and we become invested in not only her and Chloe’s dynamic but also in her as a character. So, for me the phone scene reiterated a point that we already knew, Rachel is killed by Jefferson, and then in a short few seconds, it expertly placed her tragic fate in its emotional context which was totally jarring and upsetting but isn’t that why we play these games? Imagine if you had to make the choice of Chloe or Arcadia Bay without the emotional context of the last 5 episodes, it wouldn’t be any where near as poignant or harrowing. The phone scene allowed us to witness something we already knew but with the added emotional context made it completely heartbreaking. I loved it.
Yeah, Jane and Luke's take on this was terrible here.
Joyce is the unsung hero in Life Is Strange, like if you agree :)
David is. Without him, no episode 5. Max and Chloe would've been killed by Jefferson, and the storm would have wiped out Arcadia Bay regardless.
The D&D parts were some of the best next to the play.
I'm so sad that I didn't play DoD in the game :/
Ah, yes, Barb the Elf Barbarian was fun.
Re. the final basement scene- A more subtle (less crass) nod to the first game could have been to just show Jefferson arriving to interview for the teaching position. Just a few seconds, no dialogue. It would connect all the necessary narrative points without having to jump from happy friend montage to MURDER BASEMENT.
YES. This is exactly what I predicted and it's a shame they didn't do it.
Yes, fully agree. The whole third episode kind of goes off the rails but that post-credits scene left me deeply uncomfortable in a way I don't think was intended.
Samuel Lightwing i was thinking the exact same phone call thing from Chloe's side
I actually liked the phone scene, but I do like morbid things. I suppose it was disturbing because it was the most morbid thing in this game; the true morbidity is supposed to occur in the original. So it was a bit unexpected.
This is so true. My stomach was in knots when I saw that scene. I feel like it would have fit as a cliffhanger if BTS was the first game in the series, but granted that it's not and you know what happens, it's just cruel. Nauseatingly cruel.
So am i a psychopath for saving a whole town, and possibly the world, from that hurricane of cosmic fury? It was such a hard choice, but I had to save the town, it felt like the right thing to do for me. The choice of choosing my love felt way too selfish, and i don't think Max could have lived with herself afterwards, I couldn't have.
Aldo Frakulla so what happens in your head Canon after they run away together?
Aldo Frakulla hahaha yeah i figured that was the case, I just figured id ask. I absolutely agree, and would hope max makes it through those dark times after she saved the town and possibly the world 👍 I should ask three people who chooses you save Chloe why they did it and whay they think would happen afterwards while this video is still relevant
also i asked myself - what if Joyce dies in the storm. Chloe loves her mom no matter what and if she died because we chose to save Chloe then how would that affect the relationship/frienship? Not to mention all the other people Max helps throughout the game. Kate, Alyssa, Warren, even Samuel and his squirrels?
I chose to save Arcadia Bay - Even Chloe made that choice, it was her that said it was the only way.
and honestly the final choice on BtS was WAAAAAYYYY more devastating to me that season 1. Season 1 i chose the many over the one, despite how much i loved Chloe. But in BtS i agonized over the choice but came to the conclusion that i could not lie to Rachel even if it meant tearing her family apart. She had to know the truth.
Chloe asks Max to sacrifice her, so for me it was the obvious choice - it's psychopathic to let the town die, against Chloe's expressed wishes! As IF these two girls would end up living a happy life together after literally murdering Chloe's last remaining relative and hundreds of innocents!
I saved the town cause of many reasons, but also Chloe's mom was in that town. She already lost her dad, how do you think she'd feel after losing her mom as well, knowing it was partially because of her?
Not to mention saving Chloe makes almost every choice with everyone else become meaningless. I saved Kate in my playthrough, which means that her choosing to live would be thrown away by my choice to sacrifice Arcadia bay.
Really fucked up if you think about it. But that was because I saved her that makes it fucked up lol. Also there were a lot of side characters that I liked and personally... I didn't think Chloe was worth sacrificing a town full of people for.
I mean she almost gets herself killed so many times, she puts herself in these dangerous situations and expects max to fix the aftermath.
I'm not saying I didn't like Chloe, cause I did. I just wouldn't put her life above hundreds of other people, including children.
Its interesting that Jane says she wouldn't trust anyone who chose the Bay ending, and I agree to the opposite! I would not trust someone who chose to kill 100s of innocent people for one person, especially since those 100s of people were not strangers to Max at that point. You interact with a lot of the town over those games. I cared about the side characters more than Chloe actually. It was an easy choice. I saved Kate, I helped Alyssa out of numerous bad situations, I ended my feud with Victoria, sympathized with Nathan, saved Frank and David (who turned out to be an awesome but troubled man). You interact with the fisherman around town, with pompadou, with Joyce still in that diner about to get torn to shreds. I was not gonna throw all those lives away for one.
I think thats really the gist of it: I did not like Chloe while I loved the side cast, and Jane is the opposite. Ah well, just another reason not to give Jane access to weapons of mass-destruction.
Although, tbh, both endings sucked. For the Bae ending, I wouldve wanted to try and go back in time to warn the town to evacuate in some way. For the Bay ending, I hate how you can't stop Nathan from shooting Chloe just by sneaking up on him with the hammer. Max isn't proactive enough for my tastes, so I disliked the games overall for that.
How did you sympathise with Nathan?I didn't in my playthrough
@@rimebekkal5469 when he is about to die and calls Max, I sympathized with him. He was just a mentally unwell rich kid, he wasnt a villain.
Jane, a Slytherin: "I let the town die because I didn't like them much anyways."
Luke, a Hufflepuff: "I let the town die because It's always wrong to kill your friend."
Me, a cold-hearted utilitarian Ravenclaw: [muffled screaming]
Me, also a cold-hearted Ravenclaw: "There's no way saving Chloe caused a ripple effect that created a storm massive enough to destroy the whole town in just 5 days (I think that was the timeline), therefore, killing Chloe would not save the town, realistically. Why should I kill Chloe only for the town to die anyway and I'm left with nothing?"
Hufflepuff. The needs of the many outnumber the needs of the few
I, a Gryffindor, would not sacrifice any number of people for someone who just volunteered to save them. Nobody in Arcadia Bay had a choice in the matter, but Chloe was right there and told Max she was ready to die for them. Yes, Max would die knowing she'd killed her best friend, and Chloe would never know she died to save a whole town, but Max would know it.
Besides, I got really attached to some of the other characters in Arcadia. Kill Warren, Joyce, David, Frank, Pompidou, kill _all_ of them, just for one best friend? If I were Chloe's friend, I don't think I could do that. And I don't think I could force her to live with the thought that she could have saved a whole town (not to mention her own mother) if I hadn't made the choice to destroy their only chance.
Harry Potter is not a personality trait
me, a normal human: chole is a bitch, save the bloody town
I feel like there was some magic-y things in the game.
In the first game it feels implied that Rachel was reaching out from the grave to help Chloe and Max. That she was the doe that fades away when you find Rachel’s grave.
In before the storm it feels like Chloe’s dad is reaching out from the grave. Those dreams felt a bit too real, and there was the moment when Chloe was awake talking to him. He then fades away when Chloe doesn’t need him holding her hand anymore.
On Frank and Rachel I kinda got the feeling they were already together the way Frank helps you at the start of the game (mosh pit scene) also the way Frank and Rachel were looking at each other at the junk yard maybe it's me reading to much into it lol
In the main game, it’s not about saving a “town” versus saving Chloe. A “town” is a group of people. Thus, it’s a simple choice of saving one person, or saving many. The correct answer is obvious - - save more people. Also, Chloe kept dying in every alternate scenario. The lesson being that sometimes things are meant to be.
Because you replied late I'm going to as well. I get that that's the 'right' choice, but people are imperfect, Max included. The whole game has been her desperately trying to save Chloe, she has seen her die so many times that I don't think she would ever willingly let her die, no matter the cost.
I would've liked to see a bit of more Nathan's progression. We got tidbits but there isn't (at least in my playthrough) a solid display of why he changes.
Agreed!
Outside Xtra There's so much potential for understanding his past that I'm a bit sad they didn't go into it.
Caitlin RC he changed because he accidentally gave Rachel an overdose which changed him
Willcahol We can understand things from what we discovered through the episodes in the original, of course. But the inclusion of him in bts, making him what seemed to be a big part in ep 1 of bts, leading to... almost nothing being unearthed in the end. It was more of a "hook up samantha and nathan? yes/no."
I wanted to see how Nathan and Samantha got on
So, I was inspired by a Show of the Week a while back when Jane was talking with Andy about him not having played the first game and how a person going in blind would go.
Long story short not well.
I got a friend of mine who had never played the game to actually start with BtS. Some of the choices he made without knowing what happens to Chloe and Rachel were incredibly interesting.
We sat down and talked about the episodes over lunch the day after it dropped and had a great time. He hated David, loved Joyce, was really skeeved out by whatshisname that holds you hostage in Mr. Amber's office from the beginning. And absolutely fell in love with Rachel as a character. He hasn't finished the third episode yet but called me up drunk while he was playing the junkyard scene when Max can write "Max was here" last night at midnight sobbing his drunk heart out saying, "Rachel is dead, you're a fucking asshole. Why did you make me do this?"
So yeah... I'm an asshole and actually tried your twisted experiment my own sick amusement. Top marks Jane, you really are an evil genius.
Did your friend see the phone ringing scene and thought. Did she became a model and forgot about chloe or something. (since he hasn't played LIS 1 at the time)
Muhammad Nazrin Well he's not a dumb guy so I just told him the super basic plot of LiS since the posters everywhere give it away anyway, "Rachel is missing, Max moves back to Arcadia Bay (unrelated) and meets up with a Chloe she doesn't recognize and helps her find Rachel.
jane is proud of you
Personally, I felt that choosing to lie to Rachel was a more satisfying narrative conclusion for Chloe as a character.
I mean, I probably wouldn't make the same decision IRL, but story-wise it seemed more interesting. Much of Chloe's journey was about her being a rebellious teenager facing a hypocritical adult world. So, I thought, the story would be way more engaging if she decided to do something different in a critical moment (something horribly "adult", some might say).
I've always preferred characters that could change and adapt along the narrative. Chloe flipping off and telling Rachel the truth regardless of consequences would just be Chloe being Chloe. Chloe making an "adult" hypocritical choice when she finally has the power to set things straight... that's something I will remember and think for a while.
But that is just how MY story rolled anyway! It's interesting to notice how the narrative changes retroactively as we reach the end of it.
I love how Jane justifies saving Chloe by saying "What is this a psychopath test?" When you kill Victoria, Nathan, Frank, Warren and Joyce by saving Chloe. :P
And also at least a thousand other people. Better hope Chloe and Max are psychopaths because that survivor's guilt is going to destroy them.
There was no way I could keep the secret from Rachel. It would invalidate the entire premise of the relationship the two had with each other. I just couldn't see Chloe doing that.
0:29 I LOOKED AWAY LUKE BUT I STILL HEARD THE SPOILERS YOU SAID LOOK AWAY WHY DIDN'T IT WORK I TRUSTED YOU
Max Littlewood lol dammit Max! Chloe warned u!
One final thing about Rachel: when I played that scene in the Hospital, I did not assume that Chloe would necessarily have to confront Damon again to track down Sera. Sure, they had had dealings, but they weren't magically connected. Damon only kidnapped her because Mr Amber paid him to do it. And of course, that's not something they could have expected. Rachel had no idea her mother was being held by Damon and thus would assume that it was just a simple matter of tracking down a missing person. So, not somthing that was automatically gonna put Chloe's life in danger.
In fact, one could argue that once she found what was happening, Chloe would have been smarter to call the cops. I'm not a huge fan of cops, but with an active hostage situtation, that would have been a reasonable response. Might have gotten the job done much better and would certainly have been safer for Chloe.
I mean, Rachel said "find my mom" not "personally take on this drug dealer if he turns out to be holding her hostage". And even though it's kind of in line with movie/game logic to free the hostage yourself, I actually think it's kind of one of Chloe's more dangerous flaws that she doesn't know when to get help when she's in over her head. If you remember, this also gets her killed in the first game when she wants to take out the serial killer and walks right into his trap. And then Max saves her by going back in time and making sure they lie low and siccing David and the cops on him.
Which might have also been appropriate after finding out Sera was being held hostage. You might even argue that she kind of messed the whole thing up by not doing that. At any rate, Chloe is so suicidally loyal that she doesn't think twice about personally going to rescue a hostage from a dangerous kidnapper even though she has no reason to think she can pull it off. But I get no impression that this is what Rachel asked or expected of her.
"It's always wrong to kill your friend."
What about her mom? Kate, Alyssa, Frank, his dog?! Are they not your friends?
And I mean... That is awful to do... but death would still follow Chloe, and think about how many people will be hurt because of that, including Chloe herself, knowing that all these people had these horrible things happen to them because Max wanted her to stay alive.
That's my opinion. But it is wrong to kill your friend. That I agree with
That was 42 minutes? That flew by real quick. Have you guys considered doing a panel show sort of podcast, just talking about video games? I could listen to Jane talk all day long.
Geon Quuin Woah wtf, I'd never have realised the video was so long unless I read your comment, felt like 10 minutes or something!!
"If you're going to hit someone.. SHOW NO MERCY!"
Jane Douglas 2018
The blue butterfly is Rachel. And here's my reasoning for so:The butterfly & Rachel connection. When you play life is strange Max notice a blue butterfly. When you play before the storm Rachel has the blue feather earring. And as you soon progress in life is strange. This blue Butterfly is in some places, most likely around chloe. When Chloe is handicap, if you go inside her old room the blue Butterfly poster is there. And whenever you wear Rachel's clothes, they're located inside of Chloe's room. And joyce saying that she thought max was Rachel. And if you chose the choice of chloe dying, which is her fate, the blue butterfly is with chloe on the casket. And as you should know, Rachel and chloe was going to escape and be together. So now, they finally have their chance.
And yes, ik this is long, but it makes perfect sense. If you just think about all the times of the interaction with the butterfly chloe's around. When max was in the bathroom and nathan killed Rachel, it was in the bathroom. Rachel's spirit was actually guiding you ig. Wanting her death to be solved and the case to be closed.
No, the blue butterfly represents Chloe... which is why the image is always associated with Chloe in the game. Rachel has nothing to do with The Butterfly Effect lesson of the game.
I think Rachel might be the deer that keeps showing up.
Heyyy ik it's been 1yr but let your mind be open.
Let's not forget that Rachel started seeing Jefferson after breaking up with Frank...
I've known a few people like Rachel Amber. They might seem charming and wonderful at first, but if you try to set boundaries with them you will see a completely diffferent side.People like Rachel will only pleasant as long as you are useful to them and adore them I am glad Luke caught up on Rachel's manipulative side. It is a very useful tool in real life. I would say Rachel has narcissistic personality disorder.
“Don’t stop hitting double tap” love it best life advice Jane
I cried during the end scenes of BTS, it was hard seeing her so happy, knowing how her story would come to an end.
Necro comment, I just wanted to give my 2 cents on the end of LiS and what decision I think is the best one:
The game essentially starts when you Save Chloe in the beginning; you don't even know who she was at that point, and in a lot of scenes after this, she almost dies. When they're playing around with the gun, she can get hit by ricochet and die and she's almost killed by the train.
Max is basically forcing her way down a timeline that wouldn't have happened if she didn't have Time powers, and there's this Final Destination-esque force after Chloe to make sure she dies like "she's supposed to".
I would argue that the whole Thesis of the game is: "Wondering "what would have happened if I had done something different?" is a dangerous, and ulitmately pointless road to go down".
Alter(!) Max even says so when you meet her in the "dream diner". You basically just manipulated time and space in order to make people like you, and when push comes to shove, the Power didn't work when talking to Kate.
I would argue that a Max who Saves Chloe at the end, and let's the whole town be destroyed, is a Max that hasn't learned the lesson.
Even Chloe herself says that maybe she's 'supposed' to die. Do you really want to take that choice of hers away from her?
It's smart for Luke to agree with Jane otherwise she won't stop hitting him lol
I chose the town over Chloe because everything that was happening, starting with Jefferson getting justice and Kate not dying, or the other people that was a victim of Jefferson. Plus, Chloe would have wanted to know who it was, and as everyone said prior to me, Chloe was going to die it seems along the way if it werent for Max's powers. Besides, I really enjoyed the ending, though it was sad...it was beautiful especially when the butterfly came at the end. Also? They kissed with the PURE love that Chloe deserved because Max really loved Chloe, not just how she made Max feel unlike Rachel.
I sacrificed Chloe, not because I didn't care for her, but because I did. Chloe clearly asked her to sacrifice her, she told you that her mom and even DAVID didn't deserve to die. I loved Chloe, literally, to death.
David didn't die
@@aimeedejanaleivacarvajal4766 neither did victoria. and according to the comics, also alyssa.
@@jaives Kate didn't die either.
Honestly, I think the message Life is Strange is sending with that final choice is that you have to either accept things that happen that are out of your control, or accept that there are often severe consequences when you don't.
You can either choose to accept the fact that your friend dies, or accept that by saving her, you are killing an entire town's worth of people. (And yes, letting the town die is at best negligent homicide. That storm is a direct result of you futzing around with time magic that you don't understand. Come to think of it, the fact that you have that final option where you know saving your friend again will kill the entire town and you do it anyway probably bumps it up to murder.)
There is this thing called "Trolley problem", not sure if you've heard of it. It's essentially the same thing here, except this case is further complicated by the fact that Chloe is either Max's BFF, or she is love with her.
Essentially, there is no clear right answer. Saving the town is clearly the utilitarian choice, but you have to kill someone you care about to do so. And no, it's not murder because there was no way Max could know it would happen, and honestly, there is no reason to believe that Chloe's death would really stop the tornado (outside of actually watching that ending), because the vision first came before Max saved Chloe, and the tornado comes even in timeline where Chloe dies (the one where Max experiences the Dark Room).
Besides, Arcadia Bay is a shithole.
Ah, sounds like I was acting with incomplete information. I've not played the game, but I've heard a couple of fairly in depth analyses of that final dilemma, and all of them presented it as "you know the entire town will be killed off if you keep saving her, and it won't if you let her die" and not "you know there's a tornado that's going to kill everyone, all you know is that you need to get out of town, and you have the chance to take your friend with you."
These are very different scenarios. In the former case, as I've heard it portrayed, you're actively causing the deaths of many people or allowing one to die. This is the exact opposite of the trolley problem, since your action is increasing the number of deaths, whereas doing nothing is maintaining a minimum. Less are you willing to kill somebody to save several others and more are you willing to kill a bunch of people to save your friend. I'm pretty sure this version is always obviously murder, even when you're doing the Watch_Dogs version where it's vigilantism and not depopulating an entire town of more or less normal people
In the latter case, you're just saving yourself and the friend you've already repeatedly saved from a natural disaster and aren't clever enough to manipulate the entire town into not being at home when the tornado hits. This is exactly what people do when they know a disaster is coming, you just have advance warning.
Well, yeah, the way it's usually portrayed by people it would be more like...someone pushed a guy in front of the train and you can save him...but doing so will doom a train to destruction at the end of the week (and you didn't know that at the time, plus you can change that choice just before the inevitable crash). The general idea of action/inaction causing death in smaller/larger quantities is still there and it flips back to the original problem at the end (kill one to save many or do nothing and many die)
In my eyes, the only real link between the tornado and Max's time powers is that both are supernatural (well, the tornado seems that way at least). Starting with her initial vision just before saving Chloe for the first time, the tornado seems like it was always going to destroy the town (what annoys me that you have an option to warn a grand total of *one* person, but hey, at least that one person believes you >_>), it happens in all timelines you try before the ending.
Max herself does question whether it's her messing with the time that causes the tornado, though it mostly just happens around her visions and when something weird pops up. Yeah, of course it's connected (because it's a game), but from character's point of view, it might or might not be connected. But after the whole game, it's either that one case with the bathroom (because she gets killed in the Dark Room timeline and tornado comes anyway), or the tornado is inevitable.
Essentially, writers are telling you one thing through Max, while events show another. Both are valid interpretations imho...even if the game really tries to manipulate you into one end, while the other requires you to really get into the head of the protagonist.
Sorry if the thoughts are scattered, I have a bad habit of adding/subtracting ideas as they come and go ^_^'
No worries about the scattershot comment. You may have noticed I kinda do the same thing. (Edit: If you haven't yet, this comment should convince you)
I was trying to boil down the trolley problem down to its core mechanics - from every example I've heard of, the active option always results in less death than the inactive one. Thus the dilemma: your action has saved more lives than were lost, but your actions have directly caused someone to die who otherwise would not have, or your inaction has allowed more people to die, but you personally are not the cause of their death.
I would argue that by flipping the pairing, you fundamentally change the nature of the question. Killing more people actively rather than less people passively. From a purely ethical standpoint, where this thought experiment is generally used, there is absolutely no justification for actively killing more people so that fewer people can live, regardless of which ethical framework you're working from.
I guess if you buy into the tornado is caused by time powers and wouldn't happen if you just allowed fate to have its way (Chloe dies), it could be taken as a subversion of the Trolley problem: the math of ethics isn't a reasonable way to expect people to behave, because most people don't prioritize their lives based purely on the number count. If I hear about 2 people dying in a car crash, I'm not really going to care all that much. If I hear about my parents dying in a car crash, I'm really going to care quite a lot. I probably wouldn't use potentially universe breaking magic to save 2 random people from my town, whereas I'd at least consider it for my parents....and I'm someone who knows enough about time travel thought experiments that I'd be *terrified* of using that kind of power.
Though from what you say, that's not actually what the game is doing. The fact that the tornado happens anyway makes this interpretation fundamentally incorrect, and it's just a question of whether you save yourself and your best friend (because they're the only ones you can save because reasons? I guess explaining why you need them out of town might be tough....) or ...either die or save yourself and only yourself? I'm not actually sure what the outcome of the non-Chloe choice is - again, I've not actually played the game, just seen some discussions of the final dilemma.
There's an anime movie called Your Name that I've heard handles a similar situation in a more interesting way. I've yet to watch it, but it's on the list. Team Four Star's "Anime Bento" group did a review of it that does a pretty good discussion of it.
Well, it's a game about choices, so sacrificing Chloe in that one specific moment (the bathroom) does stop the tornado, the tornado goes through despite Chloe's death at a different point in time after initially saving her. All I'm saying is that up until the point of trying that, it's just a possible conclusion Max reaches by questioning whether the tornado is her fault. You as a player can find out just by googling it, but Max does not have that luxury, so at that point, it's a gamble of her friend's life to try to save the town, or just deciding there is no way to stop it you're willing to take.
And the story itself tries to pull you in both directions, Chloe making the case for herself through her devotion and almost unquestioning confidence in Max (despite Max having ditched her for 5 years), and the other way through Max's lack of confidence and her questioning whether the tornado is her fault.
What I love about this game is that depending on the way someone approaches life, how much you like Chloe and how immersed into the world you get, the game can have completely different message and solution...well, that, the characters and their relationships. There is just too many variables to determine the "correct" choice, and the ending is just "pick your own depression"...I might have just killed the whole town, or I just let my best friend and possible love die.
Honestly, you should just try playing the game yourself and create your own conclusion ^_^'
i really like these long form conversations. i would love to see more of this on the channel.
I definitely think something supernatural is going on. Rachel started the fire, but it should definitely not have grown and becomes so severe so fast. Rachel's scream seems to enhance it, suggesting some sort of super power. Plus the fire just suddenly going out when she's injured and down for the count is a little suspicious in that regard. Not to mention all the connections in the first game between the doe and Rachel. Everything else, I think is mostly on point. Good job, guys!
If Chloe had run away with Rachel when it was brought up, they'd both be alive and she'd never see Max again.
So.
That's an interesting AU possibility.
I believe that happened in the comics
Luke is one Life is Strange video from dying his hair blue and getting a beanie.
1: I don't think there is a right or wrong choice in that. Either Chloe lies and Rachel goes on blissfully unaware and continuing to be with parents who love her (despite their misguided intentions) or you tell her and she resents her father and goes on to probably make horrible decisions. I mean, we know how this all turns out anyway, but I lied to her to protect her and I think it makes the most sense. I think Rachel is just excited to be running away. Not saying she doesn't like (or potentially love) Chloe, but the thought of just running excites her to the point she doesn't care who it's with.
2: Yeah! That ruined me! It's like it ends on such a good note and then "Hey, remember when this happened in Life is Strange? We do!" I get why they did it but...ugh..
3: As I said before, I think Rachel has addicting qualities just like her mother. While not necessarily looking to drugs for the answer, I think she shares similarities with her mother in that she is looking for an escape. For Rachel, that means running and leaving it all behind. She includes Chloe (and Frank later) but I've a feeling she would just leave without either of them if she had to. Sad as it is. I don't think she is leading Chloe on though, but I think Chloe is just another way for Rachel to escape.
4: Elliot is a creep. I wanted to like him in the first, but then it started getting way too weird. Warren is NOT on the same level. He likes Max, but the two of them are close friends and Max is oblivious to Warren's advances (which are harmless. Letting her have his movie playlist, offering his car to go see a drive-in movie) whereas Elliot is writing poetry and eventually inserts himself into her life. It starts harmless and spirals. In my playthrough, he got expelled and he deserved it.
5: It's hard for me to hate him, but I definitely don't agree with his actions. I think he truly did everything out of love for Rachel, but he went about it all the wrong way. I think he was so scared that Rachel will leave him to go be with her mother that he forced Sera into this corner. Sera turned her life around and wanted to speak to Rachel and her father got scared. And in the end his fears were somewhat justified, but still...dude did bad.
6: I keep going back to this, but I think part of the reason Rachel and Frank get together is because Frank took out Damon (I believe that is the implication). In a way, though Chloe saved Rachel's life, so did Frank. I think Rachel wants to escape so badly and I believe she wanted to do so ASAP and Chloe wasn't delivering. Rachel needed someone and Frank was the right type of person to fuel her escape needs.
7: In the end, we know David is an awesome guy, if a bit misguided (not like Rachel's dad though!). However, I believe all parties in the Price household are at fault. Chloe needs time to move on, but she can't be a whiny brat all the time. She loves her mother, that much is clear, but she can't expect her mother to sit there and be sad all the time. You grieve and then you move on. However Joyce needs to realize that Chloe needed more time to process her father's passing. That her rebellious attitude is a way to cope. It's hazardous, of course, and she should put her foot down, but I think she was afraid that if she tried, she would lose Chloe. And David did NOT help matters. He shouldn't expect Chloe to accept him right away, shouldn't force her into anything she didn't want, and DEFINITELY shouldn't have forced his way into moving in without consulting both Joyce and Chloe. He was a veteran so I get his desire to protect, but still, he went about it all wrong.
8: I mean, there was the whole banshee scream Rachel did. I don't beleive that was ever addressed (which pisses me off). So yeah, I think Supernatural things are happening. Max has time powers, Rachel can Sonic Scream or something. What else can people do? Maybe Chloe's dreams are an echo as to what she could have been doing?
Re point 4; Eliot came accross as creepy and a bad 'fit' for Chloe as she clearly didn't fancy him, Warren seemed less creepy and I felt that Max liked him too. I like the way the choices can be influenced by the player but I don't think there's a way for Chloe to end up with Eliot (thankfully). Having said that I think I ruined his life by letting him take the blame as he gets kicked out of Blackwell... If there's a sequel he might turn up and hopefully he's less of a creep...
It's the writing. The original devs wrote Warren to go either way. It was a choice. The devs of BTS wrote Eliot to be a creep. It wasn't meant to be a choice.
So ruining his life is the right choice?
How did the phone ring when Max couldn’t get a signal down there in the other game?
Smokey Banditar I think the fan theory is that the storm in the main game is causing the signal lose,the storm is extremely close to Arcadia Bay in that episode
i always thought something like jefferson cut the signal after chloes incessant calls
Honestly playing through the game just cemented for me that neither Max or Rachel deserve Chloe.
"Don't stop, double tap" Life lesson kids
I like David as a character... Yeah, he’s not the sweetest most wonderful person but... He’s just a guy. He’s not evil or anything. A bit harsh maybe but he’s good to his new girlfriend, he tries to help her very rebellious daughter.
And doesn’t he save Max?
Sharles Davis Kendy I did end up accepting David as a character with potential. I just keep going back to the part where he hits Chloe while Max hides in the closet. Super uncool!
blake bailey Maybe I’m old, but sometimes kids deserve a slap. She stole his gun and was dealing drugs. She rushed him, he back-handed her. He immediately changes his tone afterwards too.
Both games show us the kids perspective so he looks like a bad guy. Especially since he’s supposed to be one of the possible killers. But look at shit from his perspective...
Sharles Davis Kendy I'm 32 (old to some sadly 😭) but I don't think kids need to be smacked across the face. It doesn't prove anything other than you are stronger than a child.
I'm a little fuzzy on the details of the scene, I haven't played this in awhile. I remember him barging into her room and asking about the gun, I didn't remember her charging him. She definitely shouldn't have stolen his gun.
David is a good character, if nothing else to serve as a red herring.
I liked David too. I just saw him as trying to give some tough love to a very unapologetic delinquent child. Like of course he went through Chloe's room and asked her to empty her pockets that other time. Regardless of everything she goes through in this story, she's still pretty much a kid. And on top of that, she never really gave him a reason to trust her.
blake bailey She didn’t attack him per se, but she curses him out and steps up to him and he just reflexively back hands her and immediately stops himself. His voice shifts to more quiet and in one version he all but apologizes.
And positive punishment isn’t about proving anything, it’s about conditioning. Chloe is a drug dealer who stole his gun. She is 100% in the wrong in that altercation...
I only chose to save the town because some of the people there were really nice and didn't deserve to die (Joyce, Warren, Alyssa, Kate etc.) Like, I would not forgive myself if I let them all die. But tbh, that game made me an emotional wreck. Sad Face.
The ending of the Farewell episode emotionally killed me.
The way Jane justifies her decision to save Chloe is almost word for word my own reasoning of letting Arcadia Bay go to ruin.
...
Am I destined to become a beloved tyrant?
My reasoning for never allowing Arcade Gannon to finish his storyline. That tall handsome angel is MINE
Znijik You can't be a tyrant if there is no one left to rule over. Because they're all dead. Because you killed them all.... over one girl who is always getting herself killed.
I will never agree with anyone who says that Chloe deserved to be saved. Yes, the town has its problems and its dark secrets. But there are also *good* people in that town as well - Kate, Chloe's Mum, pretty much everyone who isn't in the Vortex club. Even Chloe's "stepfucker" David turns out to be a decent chap who's just trying to juggle his concurrent PTSD and his way-more-than-a-handful stepdaughter (I don't care HOW much you like Chloe - stealing a *gun* does not fall within the realm of acceptable precocious teen behavior. She might've done it for good reasons, but if you're in enough trouble that a gun is warranted, something has gone seriously wrong). A lot of the characters are people, just trying to get by.
Meanwhile, Chloe's the girl who gets herself hit by a train because she couldn't figure out that lying down on train tracks was a bad idea. Yeah, I think I'll take the town, thanks.
I would have saved Chloe but I loved Kate and Warren too.
You arn't wrong about David and his PTSD, but you seem to have avoided that fact that he was illegally spying on an entire town lol
Love that Luke is wearing one of the eighty-three LiS shirts he has. Also, like Luke, I told the truth and saved Chloe. ALSO, as far as Last of Us, I choose to believe that the past cases that the Firefly doctor from the cassette tapes refers to are previous immune cases, none of which helped. The only lie was that they had stopped looking for a cure
My TLOU headcanon has always been that Ellie knows Joel isn't being straight with her, but she chooses to believe the lie, as the alternative would likely be worse.
A K if you recall the live version they did shortly after the initial release, there was apparently an epilogue that, while unfilmed (so far...I have hopes for a part two prologue), covered that a bit. basically, according to Neil druckmann, Ellie knew that Joel was lying but accepted it anyway, but this acceptance had caused kind of a rift between them for the past month that they'd been living in Jackson. Anyway, one night Joel visits Ellie's apartment to try and fix things. He mentions being partnered with a lady that he thinks Tommy is trying to set him up with. He says that the woman, Esther, told him a joke Ellie would like, but before he can say it Ellie tries to gently shut him down. He recovers and brings in a guitar, playing a composition of his based around Pearl Jam's 'Future Days'. The performance moves Ellie to tears, and Joel leaves the guitar and a promise of lessons with her, repairing their relationship. As he is leaving, she stops him one more time:
E: "What was the joke you heard the other day?"
J: (takes hand off doorknob, pauses) "What's the hardest part about eating clocks?"
E: (brief pause) "I don't know, what?"
J: (smiles) "It's time-consuming." (laughs)
E: (also laughing) "That's pretty bad."
J: "Yeah, it's one of the worst I've heard."
Am I the only one who sees Chloe's "3 bullet necklace" as a for shadow for her being shot 3 times? (By Max, Nathan and Jefferson)
frank shot her too
@@quynhtran3736 When did Frank shoot her??
Mya J When Chloe and Max go to his trailer and Chloe shoots Pompidou, which ends in Frank shooting Chloe. However, this can be reversed by Max
I wouldn't say that Max shot her. Chloe had the gun and shot at the car.
I liked that juxtaposition with the phone at the end. People forget that murder victims were people with whole lives, that they had people they loved & did all the sorts of things she did in this game, they're not just the faces you see on the news. It's good to be reminded sometimes.
There is kinda a supernatural element because in episode 3 the fire just goes out
My best guess as to the post-credits scene is they wanted to keep Rachel framed as a Laura Palmer like character and thought inserting some actual violence might evoke Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me. But that film has a consistently brutal tone which Before the Storm lacks so this felt way more jarring and exploitative while the end of Fire Walk With Me works.
There was no violence Nathan gave her an overdose
Deck nine and dontnod have said that the farewell ep is the last time we'll see max and Chloe meaning LiS 2 is completely new in setting, characters and maybe even power.. which I think is a good thing and quite refreshing compared to other franchises
the phone ringing hit my friends heart brutally because it reminded him of arriving at the Pulse night club
Awwww... its cute that Luke totally wanted to see the best in Rachel. I'm with Jane though when it comes to her being manipulative.
oOSTVOo It really does reveal a lot about their characters. I had a lot of chats with my friends (who also finished the game) and the patterns follow what they say. Luke is naturally a sweet guy who does want to see the best in people, and Jane (I don't mean to be sexist) looks at it through the point where most of my friends who are female saw it through (like girls understand and can read motives better than guys like us) 😅
I'm a girl and I really liked Rachel! I saw her as a girl who everyone always thinks is so incredibly perfect, and hold her to way too high of standards, causing her to feel isolated and different from everyone else. I don't blame her for choosing Chloe, a girl known for going against society and being a lone wolf, to have come along on her "ditch day" to see if her dad was cheating. She probably felt like Chloe didnt give a fuck about the pedestal everyone else put her on, and therefore could be more genuine with her and trust her more. Rachel is a sweet, dramatic girl who's going through an incredibly hard time in her life. I was actually impressed numerous times about how Rachel still made sure Chloe felt appreciated, even when she herself was going through hell.
You two should playtheough the second season together as a lets play.
Also be great to see a crossover discussion with eurogamer, Johnny and Aoife.
DO IT DO IT DO IT.....pretty please?
One cool thing I liked from the game is that when Chloe is dreaming and if you were to pause the game and go into the text messages are different. The first one Chloe is having a good dream so a text from Max says something like “Chloe! All my letters got lost in the mail! I have so much to tell you I’ve been missing you like crazy. I’m moving back home!”. The second one she’s upset and the texts now say something like”everything that’s happened is your fault you’re a bad friend”. It’s a small thing that some people may never see but it’s that Life is Strange detail that I love so much
Re: supernatural stuff.
the two firefighters in the hospital talk about how the fire just suddenly dies out without explanation. My take on that is that Rachel's inner turmoil was fuelling the fire, and when she was sedated for surgery, there was no longer any fuel for that to happen.
Also, Luke's rocking the shirt with the name of the town that:
- as everybody throughout the game says, sucks
- he himself, forchristsake, destroyed!
I'm thinking Jane isn't the villainous one now?
As shitty as Arcadia Bay is, there would never be Life is Strange without that hell hole so...
I disagree about the "bad choice" of the ending re-telling the death of Rachel. (but i'm glad you shared ^^)
While I was playing this one's last chapter, I was so involved that I was not thinking at all about the first game, and this post-credit scene just succeeded (for me) in establishing the full link between the two stories.
When I saw this last scene, THERE i remembered all this, and it all came into one piece.
It was a harsh up-and-down feeling, though.
As for the first game's ending, saving the town was Chloe's choice, and this made the final stone to my decision at the time.
But, indeed, both times I was stuck to this decision screen for litteral minutes.
They've done such a great job at sentimentaly involving the player to the characters, it's impressive.
i really could watch you guys talk about life is strange for HOURS. its so therapeutic thank you for all these videos ❤️💙
the ringing scene was good. it was a reminder of what we tried so hard to forget while we played Before the Storm and when you have gotten to the end the game it was so good that it nearly had you forget or at least had the memory hidden away that the scene brings it all flooding back every heartbreaking moment from the first game, it you was beautiful and had me weeping.
omg!!!! i was JUST talking about this with a friend and i'm FREAKIN OUT ok ok gonna watch it right now here we GO
Done! It was VERY cathartic and I was nodding so hard when y'all started talking about that ending! I was really hoping they'd do some kind of retcon or if not they'd just not allude to or mention the Rachel Situation, it was so obnoxious and almost gleefully morbid to have that scene right after we're given so many happy moments between Chloe and Rachel. I Will Never Forgive.
I pretty much made all the same choices you did, except for the ending. The way I saw it, Chloe had no place to be making that decision in the first place. Sera should've never given that kind of responsibility to a teenager, even if it wasn't her fault that it came to that. I just did the "safe" option and had Chloe lie right to her girlfriend's face which I will feel bad about forever. I totally get where y'all were coming from, though, telling Rachel the truth makes sense.
I'm just really mad about how much fun I was having throughout the episodes, only to get crushed at the ending. Frank and Rachel definitely make ZERO sense, especially with Before the Storm establishing him as a much easier to like person, perhaps an adult who wouldn't date a teenager??? Because that's gross and doesn't seem like something he'd do now. The pacing was off to me? At least a little. I thought Nathan was wasted, though I could've lived without seeing him at all. Never liked him or sympathized tbh he was a terrible person who did terrible things, and his mental illness & bad surroundings don't excuse anything. He killed my girl Rachel!! Never forgive!!!
Anyway, Rachel and Chloe are alive and they run away to LA together and everything's fine.
Nobbie I agree so much with everything. The ending though, I can see why you would want to protect Rachel (you obviously like her a lot) but I disagree. Frank and Rachel being together makes no sense, the only way is if Rachel is using Frank but the pictures Frank has of her in the original make it seem like she genuinely liked him. If Chloe and Rachel are together though...It's strange. Nathan was definitely a waste, and seeing someone who actually cares for him just makes me hate him more.
I was surprised at how many people made the decision to lie to Rachel at the end
Lady Lucifer Think of how many people do that in real life, though. I chose to tell the truth, but there are a lot of people in the real world who want to lie to protect someone. Rationally, I think it's better to let the truth out and protect someone's trust - but not everyone appreciates that. They think they can get away with a lie forever, even thought they usually can't, and it ends up being a lot worse in the end.
I was surprised of how little people got Rachel to meet her mother. I got that ending in my first run (Even though I made Chloe kiss Rachel instead of asking for the bracelet)
"Because he has drugs and a puppy"
Hahahah a solid way to get to any rebel girl's heart
her becoming "just the girl from the poster" shows how single people are overlooked in the greater system.
No, the end of life is strange is a question of how do you view the story? If it's a story of the lengths to which Max goes to save Chloe, then obviously save Chloe. But to me it was a story of accepting how your actions have consequences, and saving Arcadia Bay is more a matter of accepting that you were never meant to save Chloe. In my view you could almost see the game as a "what if?" playing in Max's head, because she feels guilty about not being able to save her friend, and never having been there for her friend, since she left. It was a story of you can't have what you want, but at the very least you got to have those last few days with Chloe. And this makes the save Chloe choice an irresponsible selfish dick move.
Wouldn't accepting that your actions have consequences also lead to saving Chloe? Just because your final act in sacrifice ending is ultimate consequence removal.
And yeah, well, love makes one capable of irresponsible selfish dick moves despite usually not being one to make such choices. Hell, you can track how Chloe is slowly "corrupting" Max, making her do more and more outrageous things, Junkyard+gun, swimming pool, breaking into Frank's RV...and ultimately, saying screw the world.
Honestly, my biggest problem with sacrifice Chloe ending is that you're not sacrificing the "one week later" Chloe with you at the lighthouse, but the angry, lonely, betrayed by the world Chloe (thanks to the nature of time travel, the only person who experienced that week was Max)...even if I personally wouldn't have sacrificed Chloe at the lighthouse either if you had a "end it here and now" choice.
And I don't like "it was all a dream" explanation. Is that a valid explanation? Sure, but I don't like it :P
Also, messing with time was literally messing up nature. Saving Chloe had massive consequences and this reinforces the idea that letting Chloe die (as she was 'suppose' to) was the tragic but correct ending.
Dominic King
And maybe that messing up the nature was the attempt at manipulating you into sacrificing Chloe (same as mean!Max in the dream sequence).
Also that makes saving Chloe an ultimate act of rebellion, which makes it instantly awesome :P
I also don't get why people think Nature is going to say, 'Oh, the hurricane didn't work, so I guess that pesky anomaly is just too well-protected for me.' Animals have already died when Max tries to mess with the natural order of things; what's a few more dead animals going to do to stop it? In this universe, is Nature some entity with sentience and sapience? Is it capable of benevolence? I think it's just a matter of force against force; every action has an equal and opposite reaction. It's the universe noticing a hole in the quilt of nature and trying to patch it with every tool in the box.
I swear, they'll get to the big city and suddenly, earthquake. Chloe dies. Max rewinds and gets them out of the city, then boom - Chloe gets struck by lightning. Max rewinds and they run to some quiet place in the countryside and guess what? Armageddon. It'll keep happening until the hole is as big as the quilt itself, and then there's no more quilt.
Coritch The thing is: the sacrifice chloe ending is all based on speculation, there is no proof that going back again and letting her die solves anything. What if Nathan gets caught, but does not reveal that Jefferson is the Killer? Then Max, Victoria, Kate etc are all going to be murdered. Or what if the damage done by timetravelling is already irreversible, so its a gamble. I wouldnt count something you've been told in a nightmare as a reliable source of information
Yes Jane a psychopath test where you're supposed to choose one person over loads!
We need more of these types of videos.
I am not a player of these types of these games, but LIS and before the storm were my firsts in that game type.
It hits hard, very hard.
And seeing you guys talk about it is just something wonderful.
Keep up the good work
Max couldn't except it herself that Chloe was going to die. Regardless of the fact, Chloe fate was to die, but max couldn't handle the fact of losing such a close friend. Chloe's fate was to die, and Max was too scared to lose her again.