Love the video - and so applicable to tons of other genres. Along with prog, I love ska and reggae and punk, and so many of these same myths can apply, or even different ones - it always makes for a good conversation! We love because, and the best way to show that love is to share it with others and make sure we can make everyone feel welcome!
At last someone else has said what I've been saying since 1976 - "Punk ended Prog" is nonsense. I was 16 in 1976, my friends and I had no interest or association with it. We mostly just pointed and laughed. Punk was mostly (justified) anger at the political state of the country, but to pretend that it was a musical movement is wrong. The Pistols in particular were just pawns - McLaren's clothes horses. Punk lasted for just over a year, then morphed into New Wave, which was aeons better, and actually musical.
Punk morphed into post-punk, which was not at all skinny-tie 'new wave', which was going on concurrently with punk. A lot of punk bands were wanting to play more complex music as their skills improved, hence post-punk. I was 25 in 1976 and in the music business; I was there.
Great episode Scot! The part about Elves made laugh. I’ve heard that one before but I can’t think of very many examples of that except for maybe Jon Anderson’s Olias or Spinal Taps Stonehenge 😂
'Your music's become pretentious and prog rock.' This was a complaint sent to us by email in 2020 when our group released our album Alone In A Quiet Place. What do people actually mean when they accuse a group of being 'pretentious'? It is derived from the word 'pretend' which means a pretentious group is one which pretends to be something it is not...so what does that group pretend to be? This further implies the group is really something else, i.e. the thing other than what it pretends to be...which is what exactly? The original members of Genesis all attended Charterhouse public school. In these establishments, pupils were given a classical education and this usually included Latin and Greek. When Genesis numbers incorporate references to Greek mythology (for example) they are being true to their roots, to their education...in other words, the precise opposite of pretentious. One might argue Match Of The Day is a more plausible candidate for being called 'pretentious' than The Fountain Of Salmacis. When people accuse a group of being 'pretentious' what they usually mean is 'your lyrics and music are too complex and too difficult for the tepid shallows of my torpid feeble brain to comprehend'. As for snobbery...yes, I am an inveterate snob. I admit it. Indeed, I revel in it. Well, Hashem has granted me 1 life on this planet so why waste my brain, eyes and ears on rubbish when instead I can enjoy the best of civilisation? I prefer to read Dryden and Dante rather than Stephen King and James Herbert novels. I prefer to listen to J S Bach, Jean Sibelius and Benjamin Britten rather than punk rock and gangster rap. Progressive rock is the only form of non-classical music that speaks to me, that takes me to places I want to go...is that pretentious? Well, if it is, then I really don't give a damn! However, I suspect I am far more pretentious and far more of a snob than any progressive rock group will ever be. Afterthought: most British punk rock bands featured spoiled white boys from nice middle class homes who wrote 'songs' about being unemployed because they wanted to leap onto the bandwagon and appear relevant. Now THAT is being pretentious!
YES! Well said, that man. By the way, chaps, your new album Am Yisrael Chai is absolutely superb...apart from a couple of lyrics I find a bit problematic but then what can we expect from the Ben Shapiro / Ron Desantis Fan Club? No, seriously, well done, lads.
Spot on Scot!! I'm totally with you on liking prog but liking other genres of rock as well. I love Prog,Metal,Hard Rock,Classic Rock, and a little bit of everything on the rock spectrum. So I am completely open minded when it comes to music. I just subscribe as I love what you are doing with the channel. In particular the panel discussions as I LOVE the panel discussions when it comes to music. Can't wait to see what is in store for the future of your channel.
I always took the Gabriel/Collins debate in parallel with Waters/Gilmour. It's commercialism versus artistry. I can listen to all 4 artists and enjoy their music, but Waters and Gabriel have the perception of being artists, seeking to perfect their art, in lieu of wealth or commercial success. Personally, it's all enjoyable, but I do think that Waters especially, Gabriel as well, hit deeper truths about being human, notions that could apply to the entirety of humanity.
Regarding item number 12: I agree with your premise that “the bands did it to themselves.“ The perfect example of this… And of a band owning it… Was Renaissance. In the 80s they went completely sparkly pop in the decades that followed, Annie Haslam herself, has said that, trying to follow the trends in music almost killed the band and the bands output since the 80s has been a return to their roots… Thankfully!
How can anyone know so many groups and albums? Amazing information Scot. I Enjoy your videos and it's very entertaining! Great infornation an analysis.
I would say that prog rock is the single biggest influence there has ever been on contemporary music and has hugely affected all other genres, including pop, heavy metal, disco, reggae. I can hear prog influences everywhere in music. The innovative and imaginative use of exotic instruments and musical styles and fusing different genres is what defines prog and all other musical genres have benefited from sometimes adopting the same techniques which prog first pioneered.
Persian rugs were a rock thing, not just a prog thing. Grateful Dead and Eagles had persian rugs. Prog having mostly male audiences was a fact. Even Phil Collins complained about that in an interview about the early Genesis days with mainly "bearded boys" in the audience. The music that is the core of prog was purely British (Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Gentle Giant, ELP, Can, Van Der Graaf Generator, Camel, Gong, Caravan, Henry Cow). Who was non-British prog? PFM - Italy, Focus (not quite prog) - Holland, Zappa (not entirely prog) US, Rush (B-string 2nd generation prog) Canada. Not the majority and not pure prog outside of Britain.
I've got a good friend who grew up in the 70's and was a HUGE classic prog rock fan but he embraced the Ramones, the Clash, et al. The genre fans who hated punk / new wave were usually 70's hard rockers.
This is a fascinating list, been watching your videos for a month or so. About the notion that prog has no soul? Perhaps those who say that are talking about the most British of progressive rock music. A few years ago, a music loving friend of mine was trying to define "prog" in terms of other styles of it, such as progressive jazz fusion and progressive soul. Especially with the later obviously, if you include those styles under the umbrella of prog? Its most definitely a music that has soul to it. Depends on how multi faceted you look at progressive music in general.
Prog is dead? I just got: Amarok-Hope, Le Orme with Friends, Caligula's Horse-Charcoal Grace, Jordsjo-Salighet, and Arabs in Aspic-Victim of your fathers Agony. Just to name a few. These are all 100% better than anything that is on the radio. I'm just an old 80's Metal Head and I just can't get enough of this new Prog. I love it.
You make an interesting point about prog being a "white man's" genre. That's largely true, although a few black artists have dabbled in it -- Stevie Wonder perhaps being the most notable example. Some other prog artists have had black session players, such as George Duke (keyboardist for Frank Zappa), Chester Thompson (touring drummer for Genesis), and Peter Gabriel of course has worked with several black musicians including Manu Katche, P.P. Arnold and Youssou N'Dour.
It used to bother my progressive rock buddies when I'd tell them... Deep purple are progressive rock...they just happened to be fun too. 😜 Great episode!
A video you needed to make. Especially #12, #11 and #5 Nothing ended prog, nobody ruined Genesis, and no genre is off limits for proggers! Heck, prog is just one of the more recent genres added to my taste (possibly the widest music taste in history)
Good analysis, Scot! I don’t like any genre more than any another. My favs are those that blend genres: Romantic, Impressionistic, 20th Century Symphonic/Piano, Vocal Standards, Big Band, Be-Bop, Hard Bop, Pop, Pop Rock, Motown, Soul, Prog Rock, Metal, Prog Jazz, Avant Garde, Prog Pop, Funk, Jazz Funk, Prog Jazz Rock, Fusion, Soft Rock, Symphonic Prog, New Wave, Post Punk, Synth Pop, Some Rap, Dream Pop, New Country etc and yes while I’m at it I did not forget that I don’t like genres that are unidimensional: Baroque, Early Classical/Romantic, Opera, Minimalism, Serialism, Dixieland, Doo-Wop, Traditional Country, Garage Rock, Blues, Disco, Punk, Reggae, Mindless Rap, Hair Bands, Thrash Metal
hey, scott, i have an idea for an episode > the 3 songs that best show the spirit of prog are: starship troopers, fifth of firth, & learning to fly (pink floyd) ~ 😊
Great to see such a positive show! My only disappointment was that you didn't use the word bunkum when debunking myths. (Now that I've written that, I hope to heck I'm right!)
I agree with all points there... like most things in life - people are desperate to narrow things down, abbreviate in a simple way so they can be 'defined' ...With your help!! King chuckie will live happily ever after!!
There are bands who debunk several of those myths with their music. I just listened to Otoboke Beaver from Japan. They combine punk with proggy experimental elements, they are women, they are from Asia, their music is humorous, they are so untypical for prog stereotypes that many people would probably dismiss them as a prog band, they probably would not call themselves prog ... but I find the spirit of the unconventional and rebellious in their music, the same energy that may have brought prog to life.
Hogwash! Good stuff. Myth #13. You can’t dance to prog. In general maybe, but there are plenty of exceptions. Try listening to Locomotive Breath without boppin’!
And the Honorary Mythbusters Magical Musical Maven Madman award 🥇 goes to… … Mr. Scot Lade of the Progilicious CZcams Channel: THE PROG CORNER!! Three cheers 🍻 to you, mate!!! Another excellent entry on your amazing channel! Rock Out, Prog On and Pogo! Frog 🐸 On! Your clone and mine, ~ The Delirious Doppelgänger of Davey Cretin, from CRETIN CLASSICS.
Great video and good fun! As we know it has been said that Prog bands such as ELP, Yes, etc. were "over the top" in many ways. However, for example, Led Zeppelin has some lyrics that were just as good, bad, pretentious or what ever compared to Prog bands but were not criticized. And look at the over the top stage productions of The Rolling Stones in the mid 70s or U2's over the top stage productions in their later years. I think Prog bands are, or were, criticized more so than bands in other genres ;-)
Excellent idea Scot! I've been thinking that "prog is a men's club." In reality this happens with music in all its genres and in all eras. There were, there are and there will be many more male musicians than female musicians. The difference is notable. At least, it's my personal opinion. But I think I'm not wrong. I don't know if there is a natural inclination of men greater than women. It may also be that men may be more adventurous in being a bohemian, much more so than women. Could be. Don't know.
#5 - Marillion fans tried to burn down the Cardiacs's banner at the back of the stage while they were performing; Fish had invited them on the tour and they had to leave because of threats of violence and incidents like this from the Marillion 'fans'. Fish was not pleased by this.
Prog is not pretentious music.. it’s intelligent music. In my opinion it helps you think about things and bands like Genesis, Pink Floyd , and The Mothers Of Invention have plenty of soul in their music.
It kinda irks me that a lot of Prog people consider a Prog band to be made up of a Hammond/Moog, guitar, bass and drums and that’s it. I noticed I ruffled a couple of feathers on Sunday with my inclusion of people like John Lydon or Nina Hagen. As far as I’m concerned my definition of Prog is any kind of art that pushes boundaries is Prog. Prog means progressive and progressive means progress and progress means advancing something beyond its parameters. We refer to Prog bands more as a catch phrase as opposed to what it truly means. I have always been interested in art that takes risks and is trying to say something. As long as people continue to make art (hopefully) Prog will always be there. Visionaries will never go away. One could argue under my definition that even punk was progressive. It was after all moving things forward. I also like to think, although I may be wrong that fans of Prog are open to new sounds. If not then is that really being progressive or is it something else? Prog isn’t a club it’s an ideal.
I hope there’s a future video you make entitled something like “You’ll never believe what happened to me when I heard this prog album!” when you do your next click-bait week. Also, most people don’t know, or ignore, the fact that prog has been used in both popular and underground hip hop for decades. Everything from Kanye using 21st Century Schizoid Man, to MF Doom rapping over Gentle Giant. You can say prog is too complicated, but the hip hop acts saw the value in prog, and made great beats to rhyme over. So everyone has listened to prog without even realizing it!
It's very possible to be pretentious ánd have fun at the same time. ELP and Gentle Giant are great examples. They combining these aspects so well is actually a reason I like them best out of the prog bands. Eg Lake's porn guitar on Still You Turn Me On contrasts hilariously with his solemn, now and then dramatic singing (the live version bores me).
I think 'Tony Banks ruined Genesis' might have some more traction (not saying I agree with it but it is arguable) Punk was one of the pressures that altered the course of prog but didn't kill it. I doubt if any prog fans would give the other 'myths' the time of day but I do look forward to the UK v US debate. There can only be one winner (and they're East of the Atlantic) but it's only on points and Sweden, Canada, Japan and now Norway also want a shot at the title.
Point 3 (songs are too long) is a bit subjective. When I tell people that a song I like is 7, 8, 9 minutes long, they look at me completely astonished. To them a 5 minute song is considered long, while for me a long song starts at 10 minutes and on.
Totally agree just coz punk came about it never wiped out fk all,to me punk was a new inspiration, an addition to music and won’t turn my back on what came before just because some twat tells me so ❤
I think there's something to all of the "myths" even if they aren't absolute. Prog ran its course, as did its influence, and musical styles always go back and forth. It can be pretentious, but...so what? As for Zappa having humor in his music, I think THAT is pretentious. He's trying to be smug and superior and it's actually pretty puerile. And true, the development of prog was a "process" but I remember hearing "Court" and it was simply another level of music. And sure, prog attracts musicians because being able to play prog will make you a better player! The classical element is coming more from British bands. And as far as being snobs? So are jazz heads and classical heads. As for the lyrics...it depends. I don't think anyone listens to YES lyrics for the lyrics. Long songs? Let's face it -- a lot of prog sounds like different songs stuck together because that's what it is! But that was part of the prog trip. At least the old prog bands had songs. Some of the newer ones just have a bunch of chops with no hooks. Is prog dead? Damn, rock music is dead. And here comes A.I.
Well argued as imo some criticisms of prog are valid. I think for me the most valid one is that it's just complicated for it's own sake. Producer Trevor Horn sometimes had problems with Yes wanting to make parts of 90125 too complicated...keep it simple
Awesome episode. You did leave out a big one, though - prog is just 20-minute guitar solos. Huh? I cannot think of one guitar solo in prog that lasts more than a minute or two, and most are much less. Several minute guitar solos are a jam band and blues thing. Oh, and speaking of the blues - there are no rock musicians more pretentious than blues rock musicians! They all think they can do those same two or three progressions better than the last guy! Give me a break! If you've heard one blues rock song, then you've heard all three of them!
........another great video ( but the Jon Anderson's lyrics must be the antithesis of Dylan. Nevertheless, the live in great songs, so he must have something right!
I think there was a lot of good black prog. Isaac Hayes, stevie wonder, Curtis mayfield, Earth wind and fire, margin Gaye, Donny Hathaway to name a few. A different type of prog but lots of interesting and thoutful music going on which should be appreciated by prog fans.
Yeah, there's all of this stuff under the rubric "progressive soul" or "black prog", which somehow tends to slip under the radar when people are having these discussions. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_soul
King Crimson were'nt around in the late 70s. Robert Fripp had broken up the band in 1974. Yes are responsible for some of the most overblown boring rock with their triple album - Tales from Topographic Oceans. Inspiration no.1 for John Lydon's claim that hippies were boring old farts. Emerson, Lake and Palmer were basically playing unoriginal classical music on a huge bank of synths, keyboards and Moog oscillators. It was becoming very stale by about 1975. The whole prog scene started to lose momentum in about 1975. Peter Gabriel left Genesis. Pink Floyd were taking 2 years for each album to be recorded and released. Other hippie bands such as The Grateful Dead, Gong, Hawkwind etc had all passed their best days and were releasing pretty average albums.
Another myth (which you did touch on a little) is that women don't like prog! Not only are there great women prog musicians, but the fanbase has loyal female fans, too.
Speaking of snobbery in music there is a certain kind of such among fans of, let's call it more minimalist music; like anything only slightly more complicated than Ramones or The Cramps is considered snobbish and, oh, unauthentic. I like the bands mentioned but don't think they are any more real than the big prog bands, just doing a different thing.
Love your show Scott, more Italian prog casts.
You know I love my Italian Prog!!!!
Love the video - and so applicable to tons of other genres. Along with prog, I love ska and reggae and punk, and so many of these same myths can apply, or even different ones - it always makes for a good conversation! We love because, and the best way to show that love is to share it with others and make sure we can make everyone feel welcome!
Yeah!!!
Another great video Scot. The sound effects and the use of the thesaurus had me dying.
Wayne!!!! Where do you think I came up with some of those!!!!??
@@TheProgCorner the thesaurus
This episode HAD to be made. Flapdoodle..right on Man!!
Thank you!!!
At last someone else has said what I've been saying since 1976 - "Punk ended Prog" is nonsense. I was 16 in 1976, my friends and I had no interest or association with it. We mostly just pointed and laughed. Punk was mostly (justified) anger at the political state of the country, but to pretend that it was a musical movement is wrong. The Pistols in particular were just pawns - McLaren's clothes horses. Punk lasted for just over a year, then morphed into New Wave, which was aeons better, and actually musical.
So true, especially since Rush flourished at that time period.
A lot of New Wave bassists were clearly heavily influenced by Chris Squire.
Definitely.
Punk was musical...but yeah it was really just a blip and disco/electronica was probably far more influential
Punk morphed into post-punk, which was not at all skinny-tie 'new wave', which was going on concurrently with punk. A lot of punk bands were wanting to play more complex music as their skills improved, hence post-punk. I was 25 in 1976 and in the music business; I was there.
Great fun as always, Scot!
Thank you, Tim!!!!!
Great episode Scot! The part about Elves made laugh. I’ve heard that one before but I can’t think of very many examples of that except for maybe Jon Anderson’s Olias or Spinal Taps Stonehenge 😂
Spinal Tap!!!!
Congrats on reaching 10,000 subscribers.
Amazing, right???
'Your music's become pretentious and prog rock.' This was a complaint sent to us by email in 2020 when our group released our album Alone In A Quiet Place. What do people actually mean when they accuse a group of being 'pretentious'? It is derived from the word 'pretend' which means a pretentious group is one which pretends to be something it is not...so what does that group pretend to be? This further implies the group is really something else, i.e. the thing other than what it pretends to be...which is what exactly?
The original members of Genesis all attended Charterhouse public school. In these establishments, pupils were given a classical education and this usually included Latin and Greek. When Genesis numbers incorporate references to Greek mythology (for example) they are being true to their roots, to their education...in other words, the precise opposite of pretentious. One might argue Match Of The Day is a more plausible candidate for being called 'pretentious' than The Fountain Of Salmacis.
When people accuse a group of being 'pretentious' what they usually mean is 'your lyrics and music are too complex and too difficult for the tepid shallows of my torpid feeble brain to comprehend'. As for snobbery...yes, I am an inveterate snob. I admit it. Indeed, I revel in it. Well, Hashem has granted me 1 life on this planet so why waste my brain, eyes and ears on rubbish when instead I can enjoy the best of civilisation? I prefer to read Dryden and Dante rather than Stephen King and James Herbert novels. I prefer to listen to J S Bach, Jean Sibelius and Benjamin Britten rather than punk rock and gangster rap. Progressive rock is the only form of non-classical music that speaks to me, that takes me to places I want to go...is that pretentious? Well, if it is, then I really don't give a damn! However, I suspect I am far more pretentious and far more of a snob than any progressive rock group will ever be.
Afterthought: most British punk rock bands featured spoiled white boys from nice middle class homes who wrote 'songs' about being unemployed because they wanted to leap onto the bandwagon and appear relevant. Now THAT is being pretentious!
Exactly!!!! They were all frauds!!!!
YES! Well said, that man. By the way, chaps, your new album Am Yisrael Chai is absolutely superb...apart from a couple of lyrics I find a bit problematic but then what can we expect from the Ben Shapiro / Ron Desantis Fan Club? No, seriously, well done, lads.
You forgot one: "Prog and pop are complete opposites; you have to be one or the other." Now that one irks me the most.
That’s a good one!!!
Yes I think you can still make complex music but it be catchy and accessible
@@keithparker1346 Absolutely!!!!
Excellent Scot! Common sense and intelligent thoughts is all you need. And a little of flapdoople of course!
What is a flapdoodle anyways?
The man, the myth, the legend.... it's SCOT! Doing the Prog Gods' work
Flapdoodle!!!!!!!
We love you, Charlie!!!! ❤️❤️❤️👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️
@@TheProgCorner not as much as I love you!
@CharlieBramald ❤️❤️❤️🇺🇸🇬🇧🇺🇸🇬🇧
Lol. You are the greatest. Good stuff. Fun to watch. Peace.
Thank you!!!
I just love all types of music lots of prog influences! I'm with you Scot! 👍
Yes!!!!
Spot on Scot!! I'm totally with you on liking prog but liking other genres of rock as well. I love Prog,Metal,Hard Rock,Classic Rock, and a little bit of everything on the rock spectrum. So I am completely open minded when it comes to music. I just subscribe as I love what you are doing with the channel. In particular the panel discussions as I LOVE the panel discussions when it comes to music. Can't wait to see what is in store for the future of your channel.
Thank you so much!!!!
Another great show, Scot! Although you may be preaching to the choir here, we need you to make the case and set these things straight! Great job!
Just laying down the LAW!!! 👍👍👍
Scot got a new thesaurus and learned some editing tricks 😂
That’s right!!! (I hate editing so I rarely do much of it…)
Great episode, Scot! Always love your take on things!~Sebastian
Sebastian!!!!!
A lovely bit of debunking, it needed to be done.
Absolutely!!!!!
I always took the Gabriel/Collins debate in parallel with Waters/Gilmour. It's commercialism versus artistry. I can listen to all 4 artists and enjoy their music, but Waters and Gabriel have the perception of being artists, seeking to perfect their art, in lieu of wealth or commercial success. Personally, it's all enjoyable, but I do think that Waters especially, Gabriel as well, hit deeper truths about being human, notions that could apply to the entirety of humanity.
You kept me waiting for balderdash. I didn’t think it was going to make it in. Always good to keep the best for last😊
That’s right!!!!
Great video Scot!!! You’re the best.
Thanks, Cody!!!!!!
Regarding item number 12: I agree with your premise that “the bands did it to themselves.“
The perfect example of this… And of a band owning it… Was Renaissance. In the 80s they went completely sparkly pop in the decades that followed, Annie Haslam herself, has said that, trying to follow the trends in music almost killed the band and the bands output since the 80s has been a return to their roots… Thankfully!
They were all thinking about it all wrong!!!
Absolutely fantastic have a wonderful day Scot ❤😊
How can anyone know so many groups and albums? Amazing information Scot. I Enjoy your videos and it's very entertaining! Great infornation an analysis.
I’m a freak with no life!!!!
You are a very valuable source of information to those of us that like progressive rock and we appreciate the work you do.
Thank you so much!!!
I would say that prog rock is the single biggest influence there has ever been on contemporary music and has hugely affected all other genres, including pop, heavy metal, disco, reggae. I can hear prog influences everywhere in music. The innovative and imaginative use of exotic instruments and musical styles and fusing different genres is what defines prog and all other musical genres have benefited from sometimes adopting the same techniques which prog first pioneered.
Yes!!!
Let there be prog. Great show. Cheers and prog on.
🇧🇦👍❤️
5:02 LMAO! Interesting, informative and entertaining, as always.
Thank you!!!
Kansas, especially Kerry Livgren, played with a black RnB band in his early days, playing songs by the Temptations and others.
That’s right!!!!!!
Persian rugs were a rock thing, not just a prog thing. Grateful Dead and Eagles had persian rugs. Prog having mostly male audiences was a fact. Even Phil Collins complained about that in an interview about the early Genesis days with mainly "bearded boys" in the audience. The music that is the core of prog was purely British (Yes, Genesis, Jethro Tull, Gentle Giant, ELP, Can, Van Der Graaf Generator, Camel, Gong, Caravan, Henry Cow). Who was non-British prog? PFM - Italy, Focus (not quite prog) - Holland, Zappa (not entirely prog) US, Rush (B-string 2nd generation prog) Canada. Not the majority and not pure prog outside of Britain.
Spot on Scott!
Great show.
Thanks, Paul. ❤️👍
I'm about as working class / lower class as you can get, grew up on a housing estate in England and I love Prog!
There you go!!!!
Great show Scot!!
Thomas!!!! 👍👍❤️❤️
Good read on Genesis Scot. 👍🏻
👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️
Excellent video (as usual).
Thanks, Kenneth!!!
Another great one Scot!
Thanks, Susan!!!!
I've got a good friend who grew up in the 70's and was a HUGE classic prog rock fan but he embraced the Ramones, the Clash, et al. The genre fans who hated punk / new wave were usually 70's hard rockers.
I think you might be right about that!!!!
Aaah! Prog ist Scot and Scot ist Prog! Cheers, Célestin
Yes!!!
This is a fascinating list, been watching your videos for a month or so. About the notion that prog has no soul? Perhaps those who say that are talking about the most British of progressive rock music. A few years ago, a music loving friend of mine was trying to define "prog" in terms of other styles of it, such as progressive jazz fusion and progressive soul. Especially with the later obviously, if you include those styles under the umbrella of prog? Its most definitely a music that has soul to it. Depends on how multi faceted you look at progressive music in general.
I believe in the BIG TENT version of Prog. No gatekeeping going on here. Stevie Wonder was definitely Prog in the seventies, for example. 👍👍👍
Prog is dead? I just got: Amarok-Hope, Le Orme with Friends, Caligula's Horse-Charcoal Grace, Jordsjo-Salighet, and Arabs in Aspic-Victim of your fathers Agony. Just to name a few. These are all 100% better than anything that is on the radio. I'm just an old 80's Metal Head and I just can't get enough of this new Prog. I love it.
Fantastic!!!!
You make an interesting point about prog being a "white man's" genre. That's largely true, although a few black artists have dabbled in it -- Stevie Wonder perhaps being the most notable example. Some other prog artists have had black session players, such as George Duke (keyboardist for Frank Zappa), Chester Thompson (touring drummer for Genesis), and Peter Gabriel of course has worked with several black musicians including Manu Katche, P.P. Arnold and Youssou N'Dour.
Fantastic!!!! All worthy of being in the discussion!!!
Julian Jay Savarin!
It used to bother my progressive rock buddies when I'd tell them... Deep purple are progressive rock...they just happened to be fun too. 😜
Great episode!
Deep Purple is Prog!!!!!
Thank you Professor Scot for this great video.
Thank you!!!
I heard Martin Popoff say that all prog is concept albums about Elves and fairies. What prog is he listening to?
Exactly. That’s funny though…
A video you needed to make. Especially #12, #11 and #5
Nothing ended prog, nobody ruined Genesis, and no genre is off limits for proggers! Heck, prog is just one of the more recent genres added to my taste (possibly the widest music taste in history)
It had to be said!!!!!
Good analysis, Scot! I don’t like any genre more than any another. My favs are those that blend genres: Romantic, Impressionistic, 20th Century Symphonic/Piano, Vocal Standards, Big Band, Be-Bop, Hard Bop, Pop, Pop Rock, Motown, Soul, Prog Rock, Metal, Prog Jazz, Avant Garde, Prog Pop, Funk, Jazz Funk, Prog Jazz Rock, Fusion, Soft Rock, Symphonic Prog, New Wave, Post Punk, Synth Pop, Some Rap, Dream Pop, New Country etc and yes while I’m at it I did not forget that I don’t like genres that are unidimensional: Baroque, Early Classical/Romantic, Opera, Minimalism, Serialism, Dixieland, Doo-Wop, Traditional Country, Garage Rock, Blues, Disco, Punk, Reggae, Mindless Rap, Hair Bands, Thrash Metal
Nice work!!!!
Save the Crimson King too!
For sure!!!
All good points. Well explained.
Paul!!!!!
Dance with them snakes 🐍
Do it!!!!!!
hey, scott, i have an idea for an episode > the 3 songs that best show the spirit of prog are: starship troopers, fifth of firth, & learning to fly (pink floyd) ~ 😊
I like it!!!
Great to see such a positive show! My only disappointment was that you didn't use the word bunkum when debunking myths. (Now that I've written that, I hope to heck I'm right!)
That word felt too “on the money.”
@@TheProgCorner 😂😉
I've known a few prog fans who don't listen to hardly anything besides prog but they are rather rare.
Man cannot live by Prog alone…
Italian is my wife's favorite prog sub-genre.
Good wife!!
I agree with all points there... like most things in life - people are desperate to narrow things down, abbreviate in a simple way so they can be 'defined' ...With your help!! King chuckie will live happily ever after!!
That’s right!!!
There are bands who debunk several of those myths with their music. I just listened to Otoboke Beaver from Japan. They combine punk with proggy experimental elements, they are women, they are from Asia, their music is humorous, they are so untypical for prog stereotypes that many people would probably dismiss them as a prog band, they probably would not call themselves prog ... but I find the spirit of the unconventional and rebellious in their music, the same energy that may have brought prog to life.
I’ve heard of them!!!
Great stuff
Hogwash! Good stuff. Myth #13. You can’t dance to prog. In general maybe, but there are plenty of exceptions. Try listening to Locomotive Breath without boppin’!
Good one!!!!
Turn it on Again is really easy to dance to aswell.
Totally agree 100%!
Hey!!
And the Honorary Mythbusters Magical Musical Maven Madman award 🥇 goes to…
… Mr. Scot Lade of the Progilicious CZcams Channel: THE PROG CORNER!! Three cheers 🍻 to you, mate!!!
Another excellent entry on your amazing channel!
Rock Out, Prog On and Pogo!
Frog 🐸 On!
Your clone and mine,
~ The Delirious Doppelgänger of Davey Cretin, from CRETIN CLASSICS.
Davey!!! You are a unicorn.🦄
@@TheProgCorner ~ Thanks, Scot! I appreciate it. But you’re STILL The Main Prog Man.
Just a squirrel trying to get a nut…
FLAPDOODLE! LMAO
👍👍👍
Prog has always progressed into progression...
and vice versa.
Peace on earth.
That’s confusing…
@@TheProgCorner Naw, prog on grog is still prog. (Prog is just a word... like lotus petals falling below our feet.)
Great video and good fun! As we know it has been said that Prog bands such as ELP, Yes, etc. were "over the top" in many ways. However, for example, Led Zeppelin has some lyrics that were just as good, bad, pretentious or what ever compared to Prog bands but were not criticized. And look at the over the top stage productions of The Rolling Stones in the mid 70s or U2's over the top stage productions in their later years. I think Prog bands are, or were, criticized more so than bands in other genres ;-)
Exactly right!!!
#6 : It's a british thing... Tell that to a Rush fan...
Excellent idea Scot! I've been thinking that "prog is a men's club." In reality this happens with music in all its genres and in all eras. There were, there are and there will be many more male musicians than female musicians. The difference is notable. At least, it's my personal opinion. But I think I'm not wrong. I don't know if there is a natural inclination of men greater than women. It may also be that men may be more adventurous in being a bohemian, much more so than women. Could be. Don't know.
Societal norms definitely play a role here.
#5 - Marillion fans tried to burn down the Cardiacs's banner at the back of the stage while they were performing; Fish had invited them on the tour and they had to leave because of threats of violence and incidents like this from the Marillion 'fans'. Fish was not pleased by this.
I remember hearing about that.
Such fun!
Andrew!!!!
Great video Scott. I just hate when the flapdoodle takes over.
Me too!!!
Prog is not pretentious music.. it’s intelligent music. In my opinion it helps you think about things and bands like Genesis, Pink Floyd , and The Mothers Of Invention have plenty of soul in their music.
I obviously agree!!!!!
PREACH BROTHER!!!
🙏🙏❤️
It kinda irks me that a lot of Prog people consider a Prog band to be made up of a Hammond/Moog, guitar, bass and drums and that’s it. I noticed I ruffled a couple of feathers on Sunday with my inclusion of people like John Lydon or Nina Hagen. As far as I’m concerned my definition of Prog is any kind of art that pushes boundaries is Prog. Prog means progressive and progressive means progress and progress means advancing something beyond its parameters. We refer to Prog bands more as a catch phrase as opposed to what it truly means. I have always been interested in art that takes risks and is trying to say something. As long as people continue to make art (hopefully) Prog will always be there. Visionaries will never go away. One could argue under my definition that even punk was progressive. It was after all moving things forward. I also like to think, although I may be wrong that fans of Prog are open to
new sounds. If not then is that really being progressive or is it something else? Prog isn’t a club it’s an ideal.
That’s right. Prog is not a form of music but a way of approaching music.
I saw an argument that both punk and prog were REGRESSIVE with punk harking back to simplistic rock and roll and prog harking back to classical music
I spy Icky Mettle!!
I’m such a fan. Even the new one was great. Icky Mettle and Vee Vee are perfect though!!!
I hope there’s a future video you make entitled something like “You’ll never believe what happened to me when I heard this prog album!” when you do your next click-bait week.
Also, most people don’t know, or ignore, the fact that prog has been used in both popular and underground hip hop for decades. Everything from Kanye using 21st Century Schizoid Man, to MF Doom rapping over Gentle Giant. You can say prog is too complicated, but the hip hop acts saw the value in prog, and made great beats to rhyme over. So everyone has listened to prog without even realizing it!
And Travis Scott too!!!
Freakin' flappin' forkin' fishin' floppin' GOOD program!
It’s a hit!!!!
I think, for the British thing, you say "bollocks."
Oh man!!!! I dropped the ball on that.
Or the more socially polite but dated "cobblers"
It's very possible to be pretentious ánd have fun at the same time. ELP and Gentle Giant are great examples. They combining these aspects so well is actually a reason I like them best out of the prog bands. Eg Lake's porn guitar on Still You Turn Me On contrasts hilariously with his solemn, now and then dramatic singing (the live version bores me).
Exactly!!!! Greg and his heart guitar!!!
I think 'Tony Banks ruined Genesis' might have some more traction (not saying I agree with it but it is arguable) Punk was one of the pressures that altered the course of prog but didn't kill it. I doubt if any prog fans would give the other 'myths' the time of day but I do look forward to the UK v US debate. There can only be one winner (and they're East of the Atlantic) but it's only on points and Sweden, Canada, Japan and now Norway also want a shot at the title.
Norway is the new king of Prog.
Prog isn’t necessarily so serious; Canterbury scene and Zappa
Geniuses with humor
Exactly!
Flapdoodle!!!
Yes indeed!!!
Gotta fight the Ballyhoo !
You know it.
I thought for sure one of your items would be that Prog Rock is for nerds. But the fact that you didn’t debunk it might mean it’s true.
Yeah, it’s definitely a fact!!!!
Najbardziej pretensjonalne zespoły to Pink Floyd i U2!
Nice One Scott!! Prog lyrics are pretentious??? I cite the Focus song "I Need A Bathroom" - Say No More. Greetings from Central California!!
👍👍👍
Point 3 (songs are too long) is a bit subjective. When I tell people that a song I like is 7, 8, 9 minutes long, they look at me completely astonished. To them a 5 minute song is considered long, while for me a long song starts at 10 minutes and on.
👍👍👍
I think a song should be as long as it merits...if it's great in sub 2 minutes then it's fine also 20 minute pieces can be great
Totally agree just coz punk came about it never wiped out fk all,to me punk was a new inspiration, an addition to music and won’t turn my back on what came before just because some twat tells me so ❤
That’s the spirit!!!
Things to do today,big black 👍🏻
Ya agreed Phil did not ruin Genesis. Everything up to Duke is absolute golden and some amazing sings. Absolute nonsense.
👍👍👍
Hey Scot! Saw the whole vid but the chat wasn't working right for me. Oh well. My connection was debunked!!!👍☮️👑😎
Weird how that works…
@@TheProgCorner Or doesn't work!!!😎
Save king chucky!
Save that son of a gun!!!
I think there's something to all of the "myths" even if they aren't absolute. Prog ran its course, as did its influence, and musical styles always go back and forth. It can be pretentious, but...so what? As for Zappa having humor in his music, I think THAT is pretentious. He's trying to be smug and superior and it's actually pretty puerile. And true, the development of prog was a "process" but I remember hearing "Court" and it was simply another level of music. And sure, prog attracts musicians because being able to play prog will make you a better player! The classical element is coming more from British bands. And as far as being snobs? So are jazz heads and classical heads. As for the lyrics...it depends. I don't think anyone listens to YES lyrics for the lyrics. Long songs? Let's face it -- a lot of prog sounds like different songs stuck together because that's what it is! But that was part of the prog trip. At least the old prog bands had songs. Some of the newer ones just have a bunch of chops with no hooks. Is prog dead? Damn, rock music is dead. And here comes A.I.
AI Prog will rule the world in 2112.
@@TheProgCorner Attention all planets of the solar confederation!!!🪐🪐🪐👍😎
@@TheProgCorner We'll touch base on that one!
Well argued as imo some criticisms of prog are valid. I think for me the most valid one is that it's just complicated for it's own sake. Producer Trevor Horn sometimes had problems with Yes wanting to make parts of 90125 too complicated...keep it simple
Awesome episode. You did leave out a big one, though - prog is just 20-minute guitar solos. Huh? I cannot think of one guitar solo in prog that lasts more than a minute or two, and most are much less. Several minute guitar solos are a jam band and blues thing.
Oh, and speaking of the blues - there are no rock musicians more pretentious than blues rock musicians! They all think they can do those same two or three progressions better than the last guy! Give me a break! If you've heard one blues rock song, then you've heard all three of them!
Good one!!!!! 👍👍👍
........another great video ( but the Jon Anderson's lyrics must be the antithesis of Dylan. Nevertheless, the live in great songs, so he must have something right!
It’s not logical but Anderson’s lyrics just work. They shouldn’t. But they so do.
@@TheProgCornerin one interview he said he just picked phrases or words that sound well together...and he was right
9:17 humm... supergroup ASIA would say otherwise.😅
Osibisa is from Ghana and theyre a great prog band!
And the first two had Roger Dean covers!!!!
Scott, you are one major living thesaurus! I think you named every synonym for nonsense.
Blarney!!!!
Ever heard of Heterotopia by Schooltree?
Pretty sure I had Lainey in my Top 100 Women Of Prog episode. Fantastic!!!!!
I think there was a lot of good black prog. Isaac Hayes, stevie wonder, Curtis mayfield, Earth wind and fire, margin Gaye, Donny Hathaway to name a few. A different type of prog but lots of interesting and thoutful music going on which should be appreciated by prog fans.
Stevie!!!!!! Yes.
Yeah, there's all of this stuff under the rubric "progressive soul" or "black prog", which somehow tends to slip under the radar when people are having these discussions. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_soul
Curtis Mayfield's "A New World Order" is total prog.
So Scot (A Great Yes fan!) Who is better.? Yes - present day OR Jon and the geeks?
I will reserve judgment until Jon’s new album comes out!!!!!
@@TheProgCornerGood Idea!
I miss Rick! Wakeman is The BEST!
He is!!! Too bad Rick, Jon and Steve can’t do one more record together.
@@TheProgCorner That would be HEAVEN!
King Crimson were'nt around in the late 70s. Robert Fripp had broken up the band in 1974.
Yes are responsible for some of the most overblown boring rock with their triple album - Tales from Topographic Oceans. Inspiration no.1 for John Lydon's claim that hippies were boring old farts.
Emerson, Lake and Palmer were basically playing unoriginal classical music on a huge bank of synths, keyboards and Moog oscillators. It was becoming very stale by about 1975.
The whole prog scene started to lose momentum in about 1975. Peter Gabriel left Genesis. Pink Floyd were taking 2 years for each album to be recorded and released.
Other hippie bands such as The Grateful Dead, Gong, Hawkwind etc had all passed their best days and were releasing pretty average albums.
Prog did not die in 1974!!!! Some of the seventies bands got lazy, rich and tired…
Another myth (which you did touch on a little) is that women don't like prog! Not only are there great women prog musicians, but the fanbase has loyal female fans, too.
Good one!!!!!
Annie Haslam,Sonja Kristina,Lady Jo Meek!
Speaking of snobbery in music there is a certain kind of such among fans of, let's call it more minimalist music; like anything only slightly more complicated than Ramones or The Cramps is considered snobbish and, oh, unauthentic. I like the bands mentioned but don't think they are any more real than the big prog bands, just doing a different thing.
Indeed!!!! 👍
Prog songs are too long? Long enough to eat a curry to...
Long enough to MAKE a curry, sometimes!
Yes!!!!
Or get one delivered to the stage..
@@TheProgCorner 🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹🎹👍😎