Cloud Strife Analysis | Final Fantasy VII Lore
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- čas přidán 20. 02. 2020
- In this Cloud Strife analysis we take a look back at Cloud's story in Final Fantasy VII, the uniqueness of his character arc, and how in many ways he subverted the fantasy and JRPG conventions of the day.
My accompanying Zack Fair analysis is available here: • Zack Fair Explained | ...
In this Cloud Strife review we consider:
- Cloud Strife origins at Nibelheim
- Cloud Strife and Zack Fair as muddled memories
- Cloud and Sephiroth as Nemesis
- The Voice in Cloud's Head
- The enduring appeal of Cloud Strife lore and unique story
- The subversion of Carl Jung's Archetypes and Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey
- Mako poisoning
- Cloud and Aeris Gainsborough
- Cloud and Tifa Lockhart
- Cloud Strife redesign and original design
- The enduring appeal of FF7 and how Cloud may appear in the FF7R
Thank you for checking out my Game Discourses
#FF7 #cloudstrife #FF7R - Hry
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I think the reason why people are jarred is because they forget the notion that Cloud washed out of SOLDIER is because he mentally couldnt hack it, not because he wasnt physically able.
Which is boggling all the same, because given his exposure to mako in the OG timeline and even in crisis core, he survived. So maybe not because he couldn’t mentally hack it, but maybe he wasn’t mentally bent towards jenova cells under some circumstances.
@@mehr430As lame as this sounds Cloud is technically the warrior of light of his world so he would never completely bend to the influence of evil.
@@mehr430 he survived but he got comatosed and a fucked up memory, he technically became like those failed experiments wandering around all over the place until he met tifa.
@@mehr430 also the one in OG ff7 when they fell in the mako, aerith saved them from the lifestream.
The "more that can be discussed on Cloud": I think it is relevant that Cloud's father isn't anywhere to be seen/ heard. So there is no one to initiate Cloud/ ground him into the world of adults.
So when life's events give him deep feelings of unworthiness, Cloud looks around for someone worthy to emulate. This sets him off on a journey that ironically makes him "lose himself".
In my opinion, FF7 is the journey of a kind, but impressionable soul to "become who he is", by accepting and thus integrating parts of himself that might be seen as less "worthy" by others, such as allowing oneself to feel emotion and be vulnerable.
Well said, now, let's mosey
Agreed completely, just want to clarify that it’s stated in game that Cloud’s father died either before he was born or when he was extremely young (I forgot which one), which explains that he would’ve had no influence on Cloud’s growth as a kid.
Loved your take on Cloud. I fully agree that a big part of his fandom seems to ignore the more unique aspects of his personality in favor of the “anime tough guy” archetype he initially appears to be (and is, in some other media appearances). I think he’s easily the goofiest and most dorky, as a person, protagonist in the series. It’s probably why he’s one of my favorites.
What I like about Clouds character-arc ist that he needed to accept his own weakness to become strong. After Cloud regained his true self Sephiroth was unable to mindcontrol him which was shown in at the final battle. So at that point Cloud was no different then a real member of SOLIDER: A person with Mako-Eyes and Jenova-Cells and the mental-strengh to withstand them.
Very well said
Although I get that Cloud's characterization changed after AC, I think it's kind of implied he was making steps out of his depression after the ending (why dissidia and KH decides to keep making him stoic and depressed is beyond me.) I feel AC has a good reason for Cloud to be the way he is, after the battle to save the planet is over, he likely had time to reflect on everything, bringing up his guilt for Aerith and Zack. Not to mention he and a orphan he took on now basically gave a terminal illness that seems impossible to cure.The end of the movie even has him smile at his friends and loved ones (the people he cherishes most) look forward to forgiving himself and living his life.
Sorry, just always like to share my thoughts on AC Cloud (though, I'm sure many disagree, which is completely fine) but as for your video, I agree with most things. I think Cloud is just relatable because of his many shortcomings. As a kid, I would say things I've done that I hadn't, simply because I felt pathetic and alone, playing a game where this character is pretty much what I wanted to be, then seeing the rug get pulled out from underneath him.... It got me. But instead of keeping you down with a sad "yep, you suck and failed," story, we get a heartfelt ending with Cloud, his true self, becoming the hero. I don't know, just unorganized thoughts haha.
People assume at the end of 7 it's happily ever after just like other FF. But it's not thanks to the compilation, AC specifically gave so much depth to Cloud story arc. And of course the novela etc
@TheGoofyBorn - I agree with you. I think Advent Children was a good way to end Cloud's character arch. It gave his character closure, and offered fans the hope that Cloud was finally moving on with his life.
I love your observations about cloud’s underrated ditziness! Trauma tends to leave survivors in an absent-minded state, and while it’s true that Cloud is a deeply anxious character, one of my favorite things about him is that he embraces the awkwardness that comes with that. Great commentary, as always!
Thanks, and yeah on my current playthrough I'm just loving those comedic intricacies of Cloud that it's so easy to forget about!
A man has fallen into the lifestream in LEGO City!
OMG - could you imagine a LEGO Final Fantasy game. XD
@@michaelwilson5114 nah I couldn't
Start the new Rescue Ship!
HEY!!
My observation of Cloud strife is that he inhabits the notion that heroes aren't born, they are made.
In contrast to Zack, Cloud fails at becoming a hero through the soldier program. Its hinted that he was too meek to even be considered for augmentations. Despite that, in Nibelheim Cloud chases after Sephiroth through the mountain into the reactor and takes Zacks weapon and deals a fatal cut AND while impaled resists and manages to throw Sephiroth into the lifestream.
Afterwards he's taken as a test subject because, he'd die anyway and is infuses with, basically the Soldier treatment, maybe even more severe. Thats before the game even starts.
During the game, Cloud acts as a traditional hero (like hercules, self-made and successful) which importantly is who he WANTS to be. The impactful part of Clouds journey is that he is flawed in wanting to hide away his weakness and failure and imposing an image of who he is toward others and has to face that, work through his feelings and identity to find himself and afterward, doing the best with the hand dealt to him as a false "supersoldier" inhabiting genetics of the alien enemy which is the source of his power. He doesn't let the genetics of Jenova in him define who he is, in contrast to Sephiroth.
To an outcast adolescent child as I was when i replayed FF7 and could understand the themes it formed me as a person to recognise that my failures don't define me and that even though one might do cowardly things such as lie about who you are, theres still room for improvement and to be a hero, Cloud was MY hero for teaching me that.
Interesting analysis as usual. What I really like about Cloud (my favorite protagonist from all FF) is that his character-arc is some kind of a loop.
At the beginning of the game, he appears as a bad ass elite soldier but discovers midway through the game that he is just a random Shinra grunt with nothing special about him. This is where the real hero journey begins for him. By the end of the game, he has become "the hero he thought he wasn't" and I find this idea very cathartic.
To think Squaresoft chose this character to be the leader in their first 3D RPG tells a lot about the risks they were willing to take back then. It show especially when you compare Cloud to the following main characters as they have much more "classic" character-arcs.
He lied about everything though. Now him overcoming and in the end becoming what he strived to be is one thing. The guy lied about EVERYTHING though. I mean, if you met a person like Cloud in real-life and they did that, would you like them? The guy lied about everything.
Prince G-MO Just admit everything you know about Cloud is from Kingdom Hearts and Advent children so we could move on🤷🏾♂️
Hypnos That’s a great analysis about Cloud!
Prince G-MO I don’t follow you there. It’s not like Cloud is trying to deceive his friends. First and foremost he’s lying to himself. We discover the truth the same time as he does.
@@KitanaiharE you say that as though cloud is a chronic fibber who's always known what the truth is and with a sound mind, consciously and deliberately made shit up. The only thing this reveals is the fact that you either haven't played the game or utterly haven't been paying any attention at all.
Something else that I don’t think is generally made clear enough with Cloud’s self-actualized character is that he is incredibly protective of those he loves and cherishes.
A huge part of his identity is this continued journey of becoming a strong-willed man who could be well-equipped enough to protect those he holds dear, but who he couldn’t always protect as much as he tried, holding it against himself when he suffered the losses of his mother as well as Aeris.
I believe it’s that compassionate drive to protect those he loves (in this instance, being fueled by his mother’s death and seeing Tifa fatally wounded), that goal, desire, and pure/unadulterated loving AMBITION he inherently has that, coupled with his catching Sephiroth mesmerized and off-guard by Jenova (and probably with the help of a brilliantly equipped Preemptive Strike materia 😉), which helped him overcome Sephiroth that fateful day in Nibelheim 5 years ago. He clearly didn’t come out of it unscathed himself either.
But that is also ANOTHER reason why his promise to Tifa and the fact that he kept it was so gargantuanly profound for this game, and what makes Cloud one of the most human fictional characters of all time.
It’s even some of Cloud’s last words to Sephiroth in Advent Children whenever he defeats him again, when Sephiroth so callously asks Cloud what he cherishes so he may have the pleasure of “taking it away”. Sephiroth on some level might even envy how human Cloud’s journey to a strong will is, juxtaposed by his very lonely route.
By the end of FF7 proper and Advent Children, he is fueled by the overwhelming support and love of his family of friends. By them does he get the help he needs to become that will which is strong enough to protect those he loves without fear (of further loss), a will that’s clearly been shown to rival that of Sephiroth’s powerful will, on multiple occasions.
PS. I might’ve stated this next small point on another one of your videos I can’t remember (love your content!) and you probably already know this by now, but Square has officially come out and stated that the nuances of the Nibelheim incident from FF7 proper and Crisis Core are the canon incident, not the ones of the Last Order or the ones found in Before Crisis.
Cloud is my favorite video character, he has such a great character arc and I love his development throughout the game. Great video going in depth of his character.
*What sold the western market on FF7 was the great drawling design and amazing intro...from the bustersword in the dark, to the stars at night that transitions into mako energy...to aeris in a alley trying to get warm....to the zoom-out of industrial midgar ...to the trains forcing its stop... To Cloud and the gang on a mission to blow out a reactor at night..the dark ost with a Synth cyberpunk tone to it... Visual from visual, the game sucks you in... It wasn't 100% anime, it came with a heavy US industrial vibe as well..the characters dont just live in a industrial word, they wear it too..plus anime was at its peak in the 90s along with weird stories* ..not many FF games was able to create that 1st impression again and still to this day struggle to.
Also, you break down characters and games that helped me to understand how I should write and more importantly want people to someday analyze mine. I absolutely love your channel. Your breakdown of FF8 changed the way I wrote. Thank you for what you do
Thanks for such a nice comment. I'm glad you took some inspiration for your own writing, that's great to hear!
These videos are very therapeutic for me
Barret asks Cloud for help on how to use materia in the beginning of the game.
I would like to think of it this way, in the original game, sephiroth is a party member for his "flashback" and as far as gameplay mechanics go, sephiroth took no damage and one shot all encounters, however, he also had no limit break at all, he was given "octoslash" later on but in the game he had no limit break and no hidden special attack, lending to his characteristics. In that regard, I feel like it maybe surprised sephiroth that Cloud had a great strength hidden within him, and that's how he got the better of him. The first stab he did actually reminded me of his limit break climhazzard, where he surprise stabbed sephiroth from behind, in the same way, he mustered the same super strength after sephiroth ran him through and surprised him once again, although at the cost of nearly killing himself, when the experiments done to him saved his life at the cost of his sanity
Great video!
Cloud is my all time favorite character and you've shed more light on him then I ever could.
Thank you!
I look forward to your post remake videos if you make any.
Hey, just wanted to say this was real a treat. I've played through this game maybe 20 times and you do it justice with your discussions. It's almost like a favorite novel of mine, despite being a video game. I think the remake, just based on the demo, might actually get Cloud right and it's very exciting.
Thanks man, same as you I put this game in the realms of a literary work, and i'm feeling inspired by the demo too!
Love the vid so much, I'm a newcomer from remake who's really interested in playing the OG and Crisis Core as well. Hands down, Cloud is one of my fav protagonists and you do a great job of explaining him.
I'd love to keep watching vids! But for future reference, your audio rings in the background. Gave me a bit of a headache, but it was worth it haha. Keep up the great work!
Back from the remake...you were right about the voice in Cloud’s head being his true self.
I applaud. Great video!
Thanks! And yeah I'm playing through the remake at the moment. I'm in the final part of Shinra HQ though, so I think I'll finish today! Did you enjoy it?
@@AlleywayJack Every minute of it. I know some people were disappointed with some changes, but I loved it. It felt very new and classic at the same time. I had fun and I'm uber excited for Part 2. The story does only get better from Midgar out.
Pre emptive strike materia!!
16:00 I know it's been three years, but I have some insight on the absorption of memories, and examples in remake of it happening in realtime.
In the first motorcycle scene, our moves are limited. However, we fight Roche twice, and take note of the moves. Being able to spin the motorcycle, and the circular attack against a crowd of enemies. In the Shinra building and second chase, we pick up these moves. We demonstrate Roche's technique against Heidegger. We use Roche's spin attack on the highway.
Cloud states he doesn't dance, he is so introverted it's easy to imagine he has never danced. We practice...all he can muster are combat stances. Yay.....yay. But he managed to absorb and capture the choreography from Andrea in realtime. Each of the button prompts are hexagons. Yes, honeycombs, but more distinctly the memory/DNA hexagons from every compilation title related to Cloud and Zack, including remake. The Ultimania omega states that Jenova can absorb and manipulate memories of those in proximity.
Ultimania omega also points out the voices are different per scene, but where it isn't obvious Sephiroth or young Cloud is speaking, the voice of doubt, the voice that questions and warns, is Zack.
Every one of these scenes are replaced with Sephiroth and Sephiroth references, given Zack's death is undone, likely before remake even began as the catalyst event.
I think Cloud's complicated romance with Aerith and Tifa is one of the more interesting parts of his character arch, because it involves Zack. There are the pieces of Zack's personality and memories that were integrated into his psyche that are - I think - pulling Cloud towards Aerith in a way that he isn't fully conscious of. In other words, I don't think he understands why he was falling in love with her at the beginning of the game when his original self still had this intense desire to win Tifa's affections.
It's difficult to say who Cloud would've ultimately fallen for had Aerith survived. That being said, had Aerith lived, I personally think it's likely that she would've replaced Tifa as his main love interest by the end of the game.
Cloud has always had problems at the beginning feeling like he was so different from everyone else but deep down he always felt alone and weak. Also never exactly having the heart & soul of a true hero like Zack even since what Hojo did to him and that was not until he regained his true self.
Thanks for these sharp insights! Would love to have an update of these analysis after you played the remake.
Bro this like the best Cloud analysis so far on the net. I watched it yesterday and just watched it again. Imma leave a sub. Do more FFVII Content 💝
Thanks man, glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the sub 👍
Would love a part two or post remake discussion!
This was an incredibly breakdown. You've earned a sub from me dude! Going to check out the rest of your videos. Although I will contest one point you made. It's often discussed as you said that Zack and Aeris had a romance/relationship, but they didn't.
Tim Rogers translates the original Japanese version, and in that Aeris says that Zack was a 'Ladies Man' and that they 'Didn't have anything serious' this is further explained in On the Way to a Smile where Aeris further discusses how her and Zack were just friends, they enjoyed each others company but she never took him seriously because he was 'a flirt'.
Thanks Taylor, glad you liked it 👍 interesting point on the Zack/Aeris front - a few have noted differences between extended universe material before, I felt Crisis Core angled at romance, but I can't compare with the books as I haven't read them yet
36:57 I'd love a post-remake discussion from you! Not just on Cloud, but anyone really. :)
I think Tifa and Cloud's dynamic is interesting. Tifa as an adult likes to think she and Cloud were "childhood besties" but they weren't. Far from it. She took part in making fun of Cloud when he was a kid along with the other kids. But probably softened up when he followed her up the mountain to make sure she was okay, but unfortunately he was still blamed for her injury. But I still don't think they became close friends. He invited her to the water tower to tell her his Solider plans before he left, because he wanted to impress her, and she said to come get her if she needed help. That's something I guess. But I think the older she got, as all the kids her age left, she probably grew more excited at the prospect of someone actually coming back for her, that's why she put the idea in her head that she and Cloud were best friends.
Also Cloud's presence is a huge part of her identity. Without him, Tifa really has no "proof" that she existed, and all her memories are just hers. All her family and friends are gone, except for Cloud. They're all they have left of their past. That bond is probably what convinces Tifa that they're the only ones that really know each other. When really, their connection wasn't that deep to begin with. That's probably from where Cloud's difficulty in forming a connection with Tifa stems as an adult. She was closed off to him before, but not anymore, and Cloud either is not interested in reciprocating or simply doesn't know how because he never expected her to be open with him.
When did Tifa pick on Cloud as children? If it's that single line of dialogue people love to use...it was a mistranslation.
Strongly digging the discussion around Cloud throwing Sephiroth into the Lifestream. Never had an issue with it personally but due to your analysis I can now see why some people view it as inconsistent and unlikely; then again, the pre-emptive materia explanation (and I didn’t see this one coming either!) is just lovely.
Yeah loved the pre-emptive materia when I saw it, cheeky plot device 😅
You would make an excellent university lecturer! You've got a nice, easy cadence and you structure your thoughts really well.
Amazing analysis... especially in relation to the heroes journey. I think you could add to idea that his romance with aerith is more a fatedness due to his having to carry on Zack's legacy. Up until that point, cloud is very virtuous and faithful to tifa and you can see in the remake how he initially rejects aerith and Jessie unlike Zack who is more of a lady's man. He tries to get rid of aerith for a measly 5 Gil and warns her to stay away because he's involved in dangerous things. But aerith is extremely persistent almost out of a need to fill a giant hole in her heart due to the loss of her mother and Zack and she forces her way in. From that point on, cloud is with aerith and cannot get close to tifa in the events of on the way to a smile despite loving tifa since childhood and her clearly loving him.
Love your vids!
Finally, a character analysis deeper than “he was a spiky-haired b*tch”
I think Aeris and Guggenheim could be considered as his guides to a new world since both did a lot of explaining about the planet, the life stream, materia, and Jenova, and that was the bigger world they introduced him to. I know what you mean though, he'd already been trained, broken by Hojo, then rebuilt before the game started, but from the player's perspective Aeris and Guggenheim transform Cloud's world from hired merc who dislikes a company to soldier in what is literally an ancient and cosmic event.
@James Gravil Yep, I had a brain fart lol!
Good point about Bugenhagan, he's actually really interesting as a way of understanding the world of FFVII! and I always forget about him lol.
@James Gravil Yoda is bugenhagen and obiwan is aeris!
@James Gravil that's a good point. Tbh if I was going to write the sequel trilogy and bring back the emperor I would have done it just like advent children. Have the emperors spirit infecting the balance of the force from the source, from within the actual force itself, then Luke has to fix it but the only way he can is by dying and entering the force himself, and along the way he would have had an apprentice.
@James Gravil that's right, I've reviewed the thrawn trilogy on my channel and the jedi academy trilogy is coming soon. Such a shame that Disney dont understand star wars.
this guys voice is so soothing
Killer job as always.
It’s funny that you mention duality because... well if you watch the credits at the main menu, you’ll notice that the text that appears for contributors is both white and black. They each mix. Almost like hinting at the aftermath of the black and white materia. Or the duality with Cloud and Sephiroth.
Yeah good observation, they are very distinctive with that contrast too.
You are right about the appeal of cloud. You can relate to him on numerous levels whether you're trying to impress your crush or you have aspirations of becoming great or you're a father trying to raise a child. I will say though his character is male centric. My wife and I are playing through FF7 remake and it's her first introduction to cloud and she doesn't really like him. Although he is devoted to his friends and is a protector, he does come off as a weakling whereas women are more likely to like Zack.
I introduced FF7 and Crisis Core to an ex girlfriend and exactly the same situation unfolded. She gravitated towards Zack instantly and didn't like Cloud much because she found him weak. Cloud becomes relatable as long as you're a guy that has had or has depression and latent traumas and wish to overcome these ordeals in order to find inner peace and offer genuine support to the one's around you (friends or family), it's probably harder for a woman to relate to something so specific like Cloud's character arc unlike other FF protagonists who could be more relatable to whoever's playing the game.
Another thing I love about Cloud’s arc is that we see him let go of his obsession with toxic masculinity in order to become himself. All too often we see sensitive heroes harden themselves to get the girl, find courage, etc. and Cloud’s story is a welcome reprieve from that.
Don’t forget how Cloud ultimately overcame Sephiroths problems after his Jenova washing by Hojo
I think the story of FF7 is a story of redemption. Cloud essentially dies 3 times and every time he is brought back somehow with a chance for redemption. His first death is in nibelheim and his life was strife with shame and failure to protect tifa whom he thought died. He is revived as a first class soldier and given the powers he always dreamed of to be able to realize his dream and it turns out tifa survived so he is given a second chance. However, his fate is now tied to aerith who gave up on Zack after writing 89 letters and also gave up on her dreams to travel the world because of her fear of the sky which we see in before crisis. So meeting cloud is her chance for redemption so she works very hard to never let cloud go. Cloud fails to protect aerith and dies again after falling into the lifestream but he is again revived when tifa admits her feelings to him and we have another chance for redemption but is again failed due to catching geostigma....but I guess the events outside of FF7 proper are kind of extraneous to this video. Regardless, he dies again in advent children but is saved from death by aerith and Zack and he finally becomes the hero he wanted to be and saved Denzel.
20:22 Well the Remake seems to suggest the inner voice is Sephiroth trying to guide Cloud to the Reunion. Also why do you pronounce Aeris like Ares?
Yeah I did get that impression from the remake footage too. Regarding the Aeris pronunciation, I've been doing this since I first played the game as a semi-illiterate 10 year old and I'm conscious of it and trying to stop.
It's not just sephiroth. He made the point that you can control a child model of cloud at the temple of the ancients which if you position in front of the adult model of cloud actually just stops him. He'll just run in place if you block him. I think this is very good evidence to suggest that the warning voice is the real cloud. At the same time sephiroth's voice, because of his impact, as well as the jenova cells connection, is also there as a voice. It's so brilliant that you don't know exactly in the OG ff7. I'm hoping they can play on this in the remake and make it ambiguous somehow in some scenarios.
Oh, this is new. I wondered why I hadn't already watched it before😂
I'm preferring to watch.
Hold up, is that preemptive Materia tidbit true?
Apparently so. I'm currently replaying the game but I'm still in Midgar :/ I really want to see it for myself.
Redcoat it is true! I checked it during my current PS4 playthrough. This has seriously blown my mind :P
I saw it while I was playing the other day and thinking, "what's that gonna do?" didn't even realise until you pointed it out! No way
@@lukedodson3441 yep, i also just played through this part again and saw for myself, brilliant 😅
Great analysis, I agree on that its clouds inner self speaking to him, although at times i believe it to be Jenova. The part where cloud throws Sephiroth into the lifestream is what is really interesting I think its all tied to Jenova, her cells must surely have been on sephiroths blade after he cut her head of. Impaling cloud with it later may have initiated a reaction. wheter this is by Jenovas own will to get Sephiroth into the lifestream to learn the truth i dont know. But look, why would he cut her head of in the first place, its like he knew about the reunion theory and was already planning on using it. But on the other hand, Jenova appears to Sephiroth the way it appears to the Cetra, as their passed on loved ones. To manipulate him. However sephiroth, bein a new superior species, overcomes Jenova and proclaims himself as god. Just my thoughts.
Nice angle, I'm going to think about this one as I replay the game... I've always considered Jenova a mysterious thing, but your theory makes sense to me.
@@AlleywayJack They must surely expand on Jenova in the remake. Her role feels more inconsequential as a kind of vehicle to keep Sephiroth the direct antagonist. I was never a fan of the angle they chose in that respect; it makes sense, but there's a real void left in the wake of potential characterization for her and Sephiroth.
I'd even argue they may be taking steps towards having Sephiroth be a physically present threat as opposed to the mask that Jenova wears until she is overthrown by him. It would be nice if there was a clear moment where the symbiotic relationship occurs outside of the Nibelheim incident--something more concrete that happens as a result of player action in the immediate story. My inkling of this notion comes from the idea that the first Sephiroth encounter may happen in Midgard per the remake trailers, and if that's the case, we may see an entirely new take on the involvement of him and Jenova in the story.
My main hope is that they take this opportunity to expand the narrative without feeling constrained by the original. FF7R is an important game to me because of the standard I hope it will encourage in the industry, allowing for older, beloved titles to receive an inspired refresh. I'm looking forward to the changes more-so than the story I'm already familiar with, if that makes sense.
@@LunarEntity I'm interested to see how they go about this too. Jenova has always been a bit of an unknown - whether that's down to lack of exposition or translated material (i.e. ultimanias) or whether she was meant to be a mystery - I guess the remake will address it!
It's going to be another game. Nothing can really overtake the original. They added characters and they are going to add other story plots to fill in the gaps.
FF7 actually has two just slightly different visual effects it will use before the inner voice speaks. One of them is the J.E.N.O.V.A. cells that Hojo put into him doing their memory copying creepiness. The other is the real Cloud Strife breaking through for just a moment and trying to warn Cloud Fair (See what I did there) that something is wrong.
I also get the feeling that you might not really understand the Jungian concept of the shadow. He never considered it "evil", which isn't to say he would consider it good, but rather he considered it to simply be the things about yourself that were of a more primal nature. As well as those things about yourself that were hidden due to either society or yourself not accepting them. He always said that incorporating the shadow into oneself was essential to become a fully realized person. That the Persona was too weak to withstand much on it's own, and the shadow was too brutal to be openly displayed. Having both work together would give the individual a persona with teeth, and a shadow that was civilized.
You have one hell of a way with words. You must be a writer. If you aren’t you missing your calling.
Thanks I appreciate that. Means more since you're evidently a Big Lebowski fan, and the Coens are among my favourite movie writers lol.
First off, sorry in advance for my questionnable English.
I love your analysis. There's so much things that I agree with, other that I will add some nuances maybe, but overall I agree.
From a more psychological stand point (because Cloud is a great psychological subject).
Cloud probably have DID, he as two distinct personalities.
And, in my opinion, it didn't really start with Zack's death. Actually it started probably in Nibelheim where he had is first traumatic experience when he try the save Tifa from falling and end up falling with her.
Tifa say in the game something like "you became more feisty with the others after that". More or less describing the Cloud we know in the beginning of the game, who is not afraid to get in a fight with Barret, etc.
The personality Cloud has in the beginning of the game is not close to Zack's personality. The similarities probably more comes with the fact that Zack was Cloud's model. So he walks like him, talks like him, like everybody unconsciously emulating their model or their best friend.
But their personalities are not close to be the same.
In Crisis Core, Zack is funny, playful, easy to be around, cocky yes, but he cares for people and he's friendly.
Cloud in the beginning is more or less an asshole. He only cares about money and have no problem taking it from a 8 year old. He is not only cocky but also unpleasant with the others (even with Tifa in a moderate manner).
So I strongly disagree with people saying Cloud took Zack's personality. Same with the memories, you said it, why don't he remember Aerith then ?
Cloud hears two voices, one being Jenovaroth, and the second one being his other personality, the "real" Cloud, represented in the game as the "Baby-Cloud" (same as the one we see in his memories before the fall). The clearest proof being the dialogue when he falls in Aerith's Church, something like : "In the past, you only had few scratches". Referencing to the fall - again - from Mont Nibel when he was 8.
Finally, I personally believe Aerith is way more important in Cloud's development that you implied.
But it's tiring for me to explain myself in English, so I leave that for an other time maybe !
P.S. Sad that you didn't included On The Way to a Smile and Advent Children Complete in the analysis, because I think those Compilation entries are amazingly adding to Cloud's character.
Thanks for listening, and for taking the time to reply in English, I appreciate it.
I agree with your assessment of a DID. Cloud’s inability to remember key events and personal information, combined with his adoption of new personality traits makes it a strong candidate. And yes, I also agree with your opinion on the voices in his head (I forgot to mention the bit where he falls through the church roof - this is the strongest evidence for it being the ‘true’ Cloud/baby Cloud).
Regarding your point on Aerith, I plan to discuss her soon - I think she is important to the game, but maybe in different ways than you do. Also, on the subject of Aerith, I am interested what language you originally played the game in (assuming it was not English), and how Aerith/Aeris was written in that language? Because the translations of her name is another interesting thing to me.
@@AlleywayJack Thanks for your reply.
I first played the game in French back in 1997.
Aerith was "Aeris" and Cloud was "Clad", hahaha.
I can maybe give you some modest precisions about that topic.
Her original name is エアリス written in Katakana, like most of characters names.
In rōmaji you transcript that by "E A RI SU".
It originally comes from the English word "Earth" in Japanese prononciation.
Back in 1997 there was already some promotional stuff who used "Aerith" so that's kind of odd they finally ended up with "Aeris" in the game. But FFVII translation is known to be not the best, although not entirely bad (if not already done, you should look at the "Find in translation" made by Tim Rogers about it on the Kotaku chanel, very well done).
Nomura tends to associate his "main protagonists" names.
Like it's the case with Noctis and Luna(/Stella), Tidus and Yuna for exemple, it's the same with Cloud and Aerith (Earth).
@@ShuiroHotaru Merci pour le conseil*
Thanks! I knew it was something to do with translation, but not about the specific detail of the Japanese. I will look up the Tim Rogers videos you have suggested, I think this will be interesting.
*Sorry I am no good at French.
I feel that it's more like Cloud has one personality that he added elements to and replaced bits over having two distinct personalities. You see even in early game FF7 that the original Cloud is still there with his dry wit and playful sarcasm however its clear that the amount of trauma he experienced from failing to become SOLDIER and the incident in Crisis Core that Cloud ended up inadvertently mixing elements of Zack with himself. He doesn't entirely believe he is Zack - as Zack was much too playful and light - but its clear that the "become my living legacy" ended up embedding itself in his psyche as carrying on his will and his role as a 1st Class Soldier. Advent Children and the other additional material always seemed to go through Cloud's struggle to identify which aspects of himself are his own now that his mission of defeating Sephiroth and saving the planet but he seems to accept that his closed off and short spoken nature is just who he is albeit he is a caring character, just one who shows it through actions rather than words
The "Through no fault of his own..." part of his identity mismanagement - I HATED that. It puts him too far away ideology from a lot of us who have suffered trauma en masse and have constructed a different identity, and ideal self, a lie. It takes a life time to deal with that deconstruction of self, and I would have loved to see cloud go through that, rather than the Mako poisoning vehicle/excuse.
I think "clones" should have been translated as "rements".
vogonp 42 Nomura Bullshit should be left behind in Advent Children and the original compilation 🤷🏾♂️
You need some music in your videos buddy
Cloud began as a human character with human flaws in a cyberpunk/fantasy hybrid Rpg game from the 90s about saving the planet. Even a completely inhuman character like Sephiroth was relatable and had enough humanity to his characterization that added to his status as an icon. After the numerous bastardized versions of the characters that Square Enix has allowed Nomura to flanderize and ruin in his portrayals of the FF7 cast in Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children, I don’t have much faith in the remake. Let’s be realistic here, this is modern Square Enix and Square Enix in 2020 Isn’t even as good as the Square Enix that made FFX, let alone the raw talent that went into making the first 3D RPGs ever. Just look at all the boring Advent children designs their using in the remake thanks to Nomura. It’s really sad to see what happened to Square Soft .
I'd like "takes that didn't age well" for 500, Alex
I disagree with your friend's opinion. Squall's story isn't about coming of age(if it were, it would just be about him going through puberty, figuring out just who the hell he is and what he wants to do. He already knew exactly who he was and what he wanted to do with his life. He was quite mature for a 17 year old). It's about him breaking loose from his shell, making peace with his traumatic past, becoming a better person that actually cares about what happens to others, that accepts that nothing is forever and just lives in the moment with the friends and loved ones. Maybe some people related to him while coming of age but different people relate to characters in a different ways. Not saying your friend is wrong but I'm also saying he isn't right.
6:57 huh
Cloud was a failed soldier because he wouldn't be able to be overwritten by Jenova Cells, not because he was mentally or physically weak. He beat Sephiroth out of pure brute strength.
LeTs MoSeY
In all seriousness I love a good Cloud essay. He's more subversive than the majority give him credit for.
36:28
Just when you think he's cool, goes and shows how damn stupid he is!
They did a good job of showing this in ff7r part 1
Barret: So you are twenty something?
Cloud: First. SOLDIER doesn't go into the twentys
Barret: The hell you talking about, I meant your age!
Cloud: umm...
I'm not sure if I'll be purchasing the remake. 1) After spending my hard-earned money on a game, I want the whole bloody game. Dlc is such a blatant money grab that shows a lack of respect for players. 2) If I wanted an action-adventure game, I'd play Zelda or Assassin's Creed. Just my opinion.
@ManyProphets OneMessage well, that's terribly polite. I love the power of the internet to facelessly say offensive things because someone has a different opinion than one's self. Spot on.
What DLC are you talking about ?
The rest of the story is not gonna be DLC content.
FFVIIR is a saga with multiple full games.
Yes, it's a bummer not to have the entire story of FFVII in one single game... But in the same time... We have that actually, FFVII still exist and still is an amazing game.
I'm sure you played the original (don't be that kind of people who didn't played it and still have that opinion please) so you know very well how rich and full FFVII is.
There was no way to Remake it in modern game in one single entry without butchering it and making sacrifice in the story.
Square didn't wanted to make sacrifice (thank God) they wanted to add to it even.
Make it a multiple game saga was the only way.
FFVIIR is gonna be a full game, the first of the serie, in Midgar (we saw literally nothing of Midgar in the original and this time we are gonna see the city).
Hopefully in the next one we are gonna have our open World, with Gold Saucer, Costa del Sol, Canyon Cosmo, Junon, Fort Condor, Nibelheim, Wutai, etc.
With the Great Glacier, the Desert, the Oceans, Underwater, the Mountains, the Space, the Forests (imagine the Ancient Forest... F-ing beautiful).
With all those scenes that we already love and all the other one that we don't know about.
I'll be the first to call Square out if they don't deliver in the end, but right now, it's hard not the see how much heart and soul they put into this first game. It's the most beautiful love letter I ever received. Just give them the benefit of the doubt now. Call them out later if needed.
P.S. Did you played the demo ? Because it's definitely not gonna be just an "action-adventure" game.
Sorry if my English is not that good x)
@@ShuiroHotaru they are talking about download-only summons and Items. If that info is wrong, I apologise. Yes, I've played the original. Not my favourite FF of all time, but in my top 5. Just call me a grouchy old man; If it's not turn-based, it feels like action-adventure to me.
@@johnst.baptiste3664
The summons DLC are for the people who pre-ordered the Deluxe and First Class Editions. They are only "cosmetic" summons. Nothing amazing.
As for the gameplay, you know the original is not actually turn-based right ? ^^
It's an ATB system that they have included in the Remake.
@@ShuiroHotaru I'll check it out. Doesn't really matter anyway. Luxury purchases are out the window for the foreseeable future. This Chicken Little panic is currently crushing my industry.
So cloud just a want to be who was a nobody who become a somebody.
Too much jumbled rambling bro
I've said it before, Cloud is the Rick Ross of gaming. The guy lied about his entire origin story/life/soldier shit, all of it. And people just gave him a pass and made him an iconic character of the genre anyway and choose to omit that fact. LOL. Most overrated character ever. The guy was crossdressing and bout to get his cheeks-busted at one point in that bedroom, LOL.
And this is the character that fanboys worship? LOL
Zidane was pimping in Final Fantasy 9.
Squall was a mercenary that was kidnapping presidents and assassinating governments.
Tidus and Jecht were superstar athletes.
And the crossdressing guy that lied about everything is some of y'all hero? C'mon. LOL
That's like someone saying Tekashi-69 is their favorite rapper. The guy lied about everything.
He faked it til he made it. It’s not like he wasn’t a badass by the end of the series. People relate more to that
Way to completely miss the ball on what makes Cloud great my dude. Being a mercenary or athlete or flirty Goku 2.0 isn't relatable to most introverted gamers. I love Squall, Zidane and Tidus, but Cloud being a shy nobody lying about his past from insecurities is what makes him relatable and endearing. You sound like the dude who hates anything about 7 solely cuz of the hype and popularity, rather than legitimate criticism
Thing is, Cloud DIDN'T lie. He believed the events he remembered were accurate. His mind was so badly fractured that Cloud simply couldn't recall his own role in the events he was apart of. Cloud pieced things together based on the visual clues he had at his disposal at the time. Mako eyes, SOLDIER uniform, buster sword? Must have been in SOLDIER. That's actually a fairly logical leap based on that information if that's all you have to go on
Lol. You ain't outing cloud as a liar. You're only outing yourself as a complete and utter idiot who can't tell the difference between an actual liar and someone who is living a fantasy they think is real.
Way to miss the point of a character and his arc for the entirety of the game LOL