SINGLE v TWINS-LOW-BUCK, 1000-HP TURBO TEST
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- čas přidán 18. 02. 2020
- FULL RESULTS. Low Buck, Ebay Turbo Test, single $163 turbo vs twin $163 turbos. Also, low-buck twins vs single (Big Buck) Borg S480. Max Data-Boost pressure, Back Pressure and Charge Temp. Did twin turbos cut back pressure in half? Can low-buck EBAY Turbos compete with big-buck Borgs?
Can the BBC 454 make 1000 ho with twin $163 turbos? - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I'm addicted to your videos... Such an underrated channel...
Bro this dude is on it.
Damn former trickshotter how ya doing 😂😂💪
So underrated!!! I keep trying to get people to subscribe and help out hero out! The more we support him, the more information we can be provided 🤗 I wish I could live near Richard, that way I could in any free time. Love this channel 😆
I really like your videos man. The knowledge you possess and the fact that your just giving it away is awesome!! Keep up the good work 👏
Richard, you are sharing an amazing amount of data with us and it is all good, solid credible info.
Thanks a ton for doing these vids for us as it is not easy to find this sort of information.
Love the work you are doing. Very informative. Biggest thing I noticed from twin turbos vs the s480 was the back pressure. That s480 has a lot of back pressure on the high end. To me, seeing how much less back pressure the twins had is very appealing to me. I would think a setup of properly sized twins would last longer on a motor vs a bigger single turbo.
"THANK YOU!. "Richard your engine dyno videos/Dyno print out explained helps me take my mind off of me having cancer & my chemotherapy treatment's.."LMAO!.."CUZ!.."4 whatever reason when I'm in pain I put on your videos & I don't think about the pain..."THANK YOU RICH!
I don't know you but God bless you and be with you on your fight. I will be praying.
Get well soon brother
Great stuff. Been reading your articles and books since the MM&FF days. Always learn a lot form your testing.
There's more info on this video than an entire turbocharger book. There was a day when no one would share this detailed dyno test, thanks for posting Richard!
Great work! Thanks for sharing all the knowledge and videos, I see your channel growing fast.
I swear I get more hyped every time I watch another one of you videos, finding your channel has been the most exciting thing that’s happened all week, keep the amazing content coming Richard 😁
Yay! Thank you!
Thank you Richard for all your content, I enjoy having your videos playing in the background and listening to them, if you have ever considered doing a pod cast style show where you talk about these things I know I'll be happy to listen 😁
You are great Rich! Thank you and the gang that set you free to do this. Steve Brûlée’ is another great guy. These videos make me so happy to get to see! Thank you so much.
Thanks Richard! This is what I've been looking for.
Bro you got the best channel on CZcams. My new favorite!
Man great content!!! Answered a lot of questions for my 6.0 build I had on back pressure!
I like how you listen to your audience, great videos!
Love the testing you do, following with great interest from🇦🇺
Thanks for doing this test! I asked for a twin vs single test and you did it -cool! I was surprised that the curves down low were so similar, I would have thought the twins would have spiked torque early in the lower rpms - very interesting.
Found this channel a few weeks ago and it's addictive. Real world testing and proven dyno results can't be argued with. Thanks Richard your doing God's work!
go tell 1M friends
This is literally the only video or document that has genuine data showing why twin turbo may be better.
I see almost no one talking about back pressure.
This channel literally answers the question of:
Is SINGLE or TWIN TURBO better, and the answer is very situation based:
More responsive single turbo can be better than less responsive twin turbos
A single big turbo may be worse than twin of the same turbos at the same boost, for both longevity and power.
A bigger but more responsive single turbo may provide outright more power everywhere and be more responsive everywhere than an incorrectly sized twin turbo.
This channel is an absolute goldmine of information.
Thank you for making these!
twins and single come down to packaging
bigger hot side, single Turbo set up right is as good as twin, mine is a big 98mm T6 makes 1500hp pretty easy but my motor is build to handle more than that, I only push it when I'm after a number at the drags, another problem is where to put the other Turbo, my engine guy told me what to buy to achieve that which I did, my car is a Chevy SS in the USA on the street is just dumb running it that high can be dangerous also
I love so much about these videos. One cool feature is when your boost pressure is higher than your backpressure, your pumping loop (from the PV diagram) adds to the power rather than subtracting from it.
another great video richard, really appreciate what you are doing!!
Thnx for all the awesome vids and info professor X
DUDE !! I LOVE YOU !! You work your as off to educate me..THANK YOU !!
I appreciate all this fantastic data for free thank you Richard
This is one seriously fantastic video Richard! Thank you!! :)
Yes, lots of really good information here. Thank you.
Thank you, thank you, thank you... Been waiting for this test for a long time. Started building a pretty close build to this a couple years ago but life etc. got in the way.
Always new that it would be a cheap monster.
I would love to see the difference between the twin gt45's and the s480 with a cam that was purposefully designed for the back pressure of each one.
PS... YOU HAVE ONE OF THE WORLDS GREATEST JOBS... I'm seriously jealous.
Thanks for the back pressure stuff and all the other data
Love all this info you provide in the videos
Great job Richard , with stock bottom end, nice!!!
I’m also firing through all of your videos, thanks rich
This channel is going to blow up really soon. Better yet, its gonna be crawling with people having intelligent conversation and seeking improvement. Finally.
Just found this channel,I was so confused not much anymore,I'm getting me another job..lol or draw the line on ideas.Thank you Richard 👍'd & subscribed.
Welcome!
O.K, so my brain can't think of any other testing to do! You broke the internet . it's over..
great job !!
Diesels man. There is virtually no real test data out there on the internet.
That was a great video , I learned a lot from it . I think for the long run I’d probably go with twins because they’re inexpensive to replace and the back pressure is a lot lower
Richard do a video on how to properly tune an engine please.
It would take 50 vidys
bill2178 even the basics to get most people up and going
He addressed it.. get your air and fuel dialed in then dial in timing for max power
It's that simple
Yeltom Automotive “I KINDA ONLY WANT HIM TO TUNE MY MOTOR WHEN IM FINISH I WATCH HIM SO MUCH I JUST TRUST HIS EXPERIENCE MORE THAN ANY SHOP I COULD WALK IN KNOWING NOTHING ABOUT
Mr flimflam fremdippity danyet NOTHING SIMPL ABOUT THAT TOO ME I WISH WHAT U SAID WAS SIMPLE TO ME 🤣😂🤣😂
Thanks again Richard for more great content I don’t see anywhere else . I’m a big block guy and loved it , I run two 369S Borg Warner’s and make tons of power at 6800 with big torque instantly all through a CSU blow through ad I haven’t made the jump to EFI yet .
Do you have back pressure problems? What's your turbine AR and how much boost and how many cubic inch
Daniel Sullivan , don’t know my back pressure but makes 1340 to the wheels at 20 lbs through a 4l80 and a nine inch , figure 30 % drivetrain loss at 6600 where rev limiter was set . Boost curve still climbing at 45 degree angle on graph . 555 cubes AFR 335 heads 8.3 compression 29 degrees timing . Turbine 1.0
@@dj4monie most people dont need and/or cant handle 1300hp. Most people will be happy with a small cheap engine with a small cheap turbo sending out 5-600hp that dont have to worry about a 5000 dollar rebuild
@@LT3Fluffy agree. Plus another $7,000 in torque converter, trans, drive shaft and rear axle to have a chance behind 1300 HP
Bill Jr I know what your saying , in my 5000 pound truck it’s 10,000 in a trans , torque converter , controller and another 5-6 thousand for the fab nine inch with a wave lock diff and Wilwood brakes to be reliable and stop great without the annoyance of a spool which I have tried , but it wasn’t about doing it on a budget it’s my street sleeper quiet/docile cruising flat hood truck that I drive everywhere, go to car shows , flog at the track , parking lot slaloms , that I’ve owned for seventeen years and just keeps evolving. If I was just looking to build a quick car it would be a 5.3 or 6 litre with a single turbo running the Holley Terminator so it would be easy tuning . Btw my truck still uses a high end blow CSU carb and drives mostly like a fuelie as nine years ago too many people were having problems with the Fast system as that was really the only high hp option st the time .
Fantastic tech Mr Holdener. Thankyou😁 The $850-$1000 on3 94mm and 107mm turbos would be very interesting! A 427 ls corvette made close to 1300whp with the 107mm here on youtube
Great video, thanks for posting.
Am a subscriber.. such a amount of valuable information and details!!
Keep it up champ👑
Thanks for the sub!
@@richardholdener1727 thank you for your time and efforts explaining & spreading awesome high quality and detailed information in a very interesting & simple way for us to understand in a video that is so much fun and exiting to watch
I can't thank you enough sir👑
Great videos, Sir!
Kool Vid Richard.
would love to see that test on a 6.0L LS
Great videos! Keep them coming. I would like to see you design and build combinations that would fit in a car. That is what most people are doing and most of what I see you do will only fit in a Dyno room..
I'm glad Richard shows these videos. So many people think that just because you throw twins on that you can count on double or tripling the output. There are many that believe it will be the same size twins gain over the single BC its double the size. All about proper sizing and ring gap with tuning. Richard is the man!
How do you not have 1m+ subs, you are moving the HP bar/$ to a new level! I am officially recruiting everyone I know....
Been waiting for this video thanks.
Been Waiting On This One! If Possible, Can You Do The Same Test On Any Small Block LS? Preferably A LS1 Or LS2? Great Video!
Ummm... I would worry heavily if the gen3 stock ls1 rods are going to stay in the block north of 700.......
@@32bitcal69 hey has had them well over 1000 hp
You really need a Patreon account. So much knowledge is being dropped here. Feels so guilty not paying for this. Awesome work Richard.
These uploads are always exciting and I can't click them fast enough. Thank you for doing this!
Great videos! I subscribed! Thanks
Badass content! Thanks love it
These videos are awesome. I would like to see more cheap supercharger options. How to make a manifold to adapt and tune.
@Richard we often struggle with to restrictive turbine housing for some factory position turbo - Please test what is better maxing boost on small turbine housing or lower boost but more timing !
Richard, could you do a vid all about cylinder compression ratios, octane numbers, and timing. Its the background content that ppl dont know about boosted motors and performance builds.
Thanks for the knowledge.
Big block Chevys have a special place in my heart, my paw paw has been bracket raced since the 70s and quit in 2004 and for as long as I can remember like back in 96 when I was 6yo he has always had some evil sounding big blocks sounds I will never forget!! You just cant beat how a healthy high compression big block Chevy sounds
So, properly sized single is the way to go. Less complexity, less points of failure and the same power and response. duly noted. Thanks, Man!
Quicker spool with twins
@@bill2178 If your single is sized correctly the difference in spool at a desired horsepower is negligible. That said, twins are often more forgiving and can be easier to package.
wouldn't the best of both worlds be sequential?
@@1flynlow
Yes but you're also compounding the heat unless you switch from one to the other.
There is an easier but somewhat less effective solution to that, though. Get an little bit oversized divided scroll turbo and get one of those quick spool valves. www.suprastore.com/spquspva.html
only problem is they're spendy but still cheaper then twins or sequential/compound.
where you watching a different video ?
Great job Richard 👍
Holy crap that’s an amazing comparison
Lots of good info an thanks for moving your head to the bottom right corner
That was great, I loved it.
Man I’m so glad I found your channel. I have so many questions I wish I could ask you. I’m looking at doing a turbo setup on a gen 3 6.0L. It has a set of L92 heads and its carbureted. It also has an XR 281 cam. The engine runs good now in an S10. Could I still run a carb? What size turbo?
Thanks for all your research. What a time to be alive! In the 60' and 70's, if a backyard mech was getting "1 pony per cube", he had accomplished something. Now, motors like the LS/LT platform (5.3 ltr) are rated at 355 hp/ 390 torque and that is the baseline for the backyard mech to START with. With simple " bolt on parts", someone can easily double their HP / torque and have some fun. However, on the downside, I look at all my fav muscle cars now, knowing that a slightly tweaked factory truck could rip the doors off them and am sort of sad. What I wouldn't give to be 30 years younger, have the truck I have now and a bit more time.
I love your videos, keep doing what your doing. I'd love to see what you would do with a GM 305 CID gas engine or a 6.2 litre GM diesel engine and I'll keep looking forward to your videos.
That torque curve is awsome!
I never get tired of watching your very informative vids, which is ALL OF THEM.
Eddie Australia 89 C4..
Richard you are the best guy on CZcams , I cant stop watching your videos so thank you! and thanks for letting me know that my heads are not so good= 317 heads . But anyway, Can you do a video testing high dollar turbo's vs cheap Ebay turbo's and maybe carbureted duel vs single plane intake's. Thanks again.
have lots of single vs dual plane intake tests, check out the EBay turbo vs Summit S475 video
Tim we just watched the gt 45 vs the s480 in this video rite here. Lots of good info. Kudos Ritchard!!!
THANKS FOR THIS VIDEOS! Enlightening to see the back pressure comparisons. What would you search in a cam for twin turbos knowing that they produce less back pressure? Can you give an example with this combo? Cam for single and cam for twin.
Love ur channel
The only thing I wish you had was the Turbine a/r. That's why the single starts to choke at 700hp and 10psi. They work better at higher boost for a couple reasons: the compressor efficiency is higher with higher boost, there is higher manifold pressure relative to back pressure or drive pressure and it keeps the whole system under pressure. With a larger turbine housing they will do way better for bigger engines or higher airflow. There is nearly a direct inverse relationship between turbine ar and peak drive pressure. This was awesome man, thanks.
Thank you for what you do
Great video i definitely vote for the twin Ebay turbos setup at that price for about the same power for a fraction the price and better on the motor with lower back pressure that's a win win
Thanks gor very informative content. Please consider boost testing 80's vintage Chrysler 4 cylinder motors (2.2, 2.5). Am curious about power potential.
Another fascinating video. I'm curious how we can predict these things beforehand by first looking at the turbomachinery compressor and turbine performance maps. I'm just thinking out loud if there is a way to explain that for a general audience.
Great video 👍
You need bigger injectors? I know a guy ...
Oh shit dude, you're famous. I bought a Sonoma just so I can find and roll a fairmont home.
Suggestion for a future turbo comparison video:
Run dual turbos appropriately sized with varying plumbing configurations between the exhaust port and the turbo. I'm very interested in seeing how variations in the volume of air between the exhaust port and the turbo (call this hot mess "the exhaust manifold"), the length of the run between the exhaust port and the turbo inlet, and the manner in which exhaust gasses are pooled/collected ahead of the turbo inlet.
From what I've studied of turbocharging, the efficiency of the turbocharger should increase inversely proportionally to both the volume of exhaust manifold and the length of the exhaust manifold. That said, I think that the location of the collector and manifold plumbing format is going to have an impact. Additionally, with the exhaust ports having a cross-sectional area of about 1.9 inches² a 1-5/8 diameter tube between the head and a collector into the manifold should minimize available exhaust expansion opportunity in the manifold and maximize turbo pressure development. I'm curious to know how a log manifold performs compared with this. How about stacking a turbo onto the end of a flipped stock exhaust manifold? And whether there's any advantage to creating equal-length exhaust port primary pipes between the head and the header, or more simply running a straight pipe between the port and the turbo collector? Should the exhaust run in one pipe leading up to the turbo inlet or would dumping the collector straight into the turbo inlet work fine? Is there an advantage to staggering the collectors, like 3x 2-into-1 or is a straight 4-into-1 better? Unradiused steps in exhaust pipe diameter create wave reflections and superpositions in the exhaust stream that can help to scavenge ports - are there advantages or disadvantages to including such a step at the head with a manifold that does not exactly match the port size/shape? Is there an advantage to including a large or small step in exhaust diameter immediately before the turbo inlet, or before the collector? Obviously, there's a step in the collector that's almost unavoidable.
Similarly to steps, square wells that waves travel over also create wave reflections on both sides of the well. Can such annular wells be used in turbo applications as a means of positively smoothing the inlet gas pulses?
So much good info thanks 🙏
Outstanding, this is the kind of stuff I'm trying to learn about. For a guy like me (LS neanderthal) this kind of information gives me a starting place to learn and experiment with a reasonable budget. You're doing a great job with the content don't slow down, come on down to Texas and help me throw one of these in my pinto
Subscribed. Love the videos.
Richard, I have a 2001 Silverado 5.3ls. I just use the truck to haul cars and sometimes I want a little more power. I don't need it, but it would be nice. I know I should probably put 3.73 rear end in. My next assumption is that a cam and tune would do everything I need. I want low end power. I really don't care about 5000rpm power.
So, what do you recommend for a cam in that situation.....or do you recommend a different route? Price of mods is a key factor.
Thanks
I kept waiting for that thing to hang a rod out the side. You must be have WAY more luck than me, but when I got over 1,000 Hp and 1,000Fpt the stock rods either bent or broke. I can't imagine making 1,200 or 1,400 with stock rods!! I just found your channel. I am a long time Big Block Builder and loved this video. Great info.
Its different load on a dyno compared to street, so the stuff that survives on engine dyno may send a rod when the weight and load of a car and drivetrain are added.
Hey rich... Love your content. Could you do a video on how to ring gap a junk yard motor for boost?
Great video love this information cheap horsepower
Sorry for all the paragraphs but I didn’t know who else to talk to lol your the best
Thank you. Nice video
You listened to the commentors about the graph being blocked by the pip of you. That's great.
I like your video whit stock bottom end ! I understand that you ajust ring gap for turbo but for durability of an engine would you increase rod and crank bearings clearance ?
Great stuff !
good lord 7:15 that thing comes alive!
I know not as desirable but can you run some combos and tests on TPI 350. turbo cam nitrous etc. seems like third gens are making a little comeback.
Gotta love the cheap ebay turbos, make a lot of power cheap. They have improved a lot over the years. I remember when they would fail quickly and weren't balanced from the factory.
I'm throwing a couple maxpeeding turbos on my current build.
Hi Richard i really like your vids very informative im in the process of building a SBF stroker 393 w/twin 88 s with a holly sniper EFI i have questioned myself if twins this size would be to big for what im trying to achieve the cam is 586/298 with 112 split along with trick flow heads my question to you is. is there a way to determine a basic guideline for back pressure with size and length of the tubes vs cam lift and duration . im thinking if the tubes are to big this may be not enough back pressure to drive the turbos and if i go to small this will cause less volume and higher back pressure im a fabricator and will be building the exhaust myself . id appreciate your imput thank you Bill in Nevada
Hey Richard. Are the gen 6 bbc coming with forged cranks or are you making that power with cast cranks. Either way. Im a gen 4 or mark 4 guy running roots style 671 stuff even with predators lol. But just curious about the stock lower end on those. Cast pistons?? Cast crank?? Forged rods im sure. I know they are all 4 bolt but not sure what the crank and pistons are. Thanks brotatoe. And keep up the killer videos. Im hooked. And now looking at twin turbos for my 73 pro street camaro.
This is more like it!! Great comparison of Turbos! It would be cool to see a 4 cylinder vs 6 cylinder vs v8 with a horsepower percentage increase with a single, and a twin turbo setup. Thank you sir!! Keep the fun and educational content coming! - Subscriber, Dan
From what ive seen of dyno runs and the boost number they run, the bigger enines have higher gains with less boost. So v8 would probably have the highest gains.
I hear ya there... but then there's those darn Honda 4 cylinders! 1100hp 1200hp 2.4 liters? Watch #BOOSTEDBOYZ Kyle has an MR2 with a K Series Twin Turbo that's over 1000 hp! I'm no import fanboy but that's impressive!! A hp per liter shootout would be sweet!
@@DanITGuy gotta check what pressure they are running though. I dont think they can do that under 20.
That's true but it still ran 979 hp @ 29 psi with a K24! That equates to 408 hp per liter!! Where the 7.4 liter 454 @1200 hp is still only making 162 hp per liter!! A 7.4 liter would have to make 3,019 hp to be making 408 hp per liter!
This is what I’m doing to my 2003 6.0 Ritchard.Twins on a budget!!
I would like to see you do a Small Block Ford 302/5.0 . with twin turbos ! .
Very underated love this channel better than powernation
I like your videos but I kinda wanna see you do something a little different and use a old GMC Big Block V-6 like the 351 magnum and see it turboed or supercharged.... That would be sweet. But keep up the good work 👌
Great info!!! Thanks!
Richard what ring gap would you recommen went you on running twin turbo on gen 3 hemi 5.7
Thank and keep up the great video
Love the vids. Question. First time putting a motor together self. And want to reach that power level. I'm starting with a gen 5 454. Just dont know what head and cam to select. Can u help. Thanks