Should You Run A Low Magic World?
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2024
- When you first start to GM a homebrewed, sandbox campaign, you should consider starting with a low magic world.
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Honestly the best settings I have ever been in are where the DM isn't controlling the overall volume of magic, but rather controlling the rarity based on power level. Imagine a medieval city that had streetlights as ubiquitous as we do today in our modern world, but would have continual flame spells powering them at night. Temples are full of persons seeking basic healing potions and spells in the same way a modern hospital would operate an ER. In essence 1st through 3rd level spells and their equivalent magic items are so common as to be mundane. Items you find and try to sell at these levels get you very little coin because they're not hard to come by, but like selling on ebay or amazon, buying such items is going to be a fair amount of coin because the merchants need to make a living too.
Items of an uncommon nature, essentially 4th-6th spell level are akin to all the celebrities that exist in the modern world (locally famous and on up). In real life there's more than enough of them you're bound to run into one by chance at regular intervals.
Rare items however, those items 7th spell level and up are only accessible to the wealthy super elite. Heroes above 15th level are equivalent to modern day billionaires and CEOs of fortune 500 companies. An average kingdom or huge city would have only a handful of such people outside of topmost nobility and the royal family. The average peasant or tradesman might see such an item once in a lifetime.
Anything above that, artifacts and relics, are only seen once in a generation, as rare as thoroughbred racehorses of legendary status like Secretariat or Seabiscuit.
This is a really good analogy to explain the rarity of powerful magic to your players. I really like the idea that low level magic items are ubiquitous because so are low level cures for simple ailments or nice items. Of course, in modern systems like D&D 5e players expect to someday becvome the super elite, so if you plan on running your game to that level be prepared to deal with the magic bloat!
Excellent.
This is very similar to the system I described in my comment above.
@@anon-yw4wd Not many GMs vote for a high magic setting.
I like this, though my bias would be to limit it even further than you described; or to think of it as a distribution, 1st level is common enough (30-50% of people have seen it before), and each level after that is about half as common as the level before, so maybe 1 in 1000 people have seen a 6th or 7th level spell cast in their lives.
@@jacoblee1328 This sounds fine to me. I think most GMs know that limiting magic is way better than having too much. But players are greedy!
Drunk wizard with a nuclear bomb. What a great start of a one shot
Actually, that may be a brilliant idea!
How about a cult summoning a great dragon that will cause a explosion similar to a nuclear bomb. This was a oneshot that I once ran. Thankfully, the players won. It was even a new player group as well. They fought well! XD
@@raff3486 That's cool that you had a new player in your group and it went well!
In my home brew world I have a cursed illness, Arcane Dysphoria, causing insanity to those who meddle with magic. Crafting magic items has a greater chance of being cursed, even if the caster does not have AD. Magic items that are thousands of years old are highly sought after because they were created before the Dysphoria occurred.
My players complained that I had not provided durable, non-consumables. I held off until they were around 5th level.
Now they are 13th level and for the first time in forty years DMing, I have placed a Staff of the Magi! I am certain they won’t find it. And that’s perfectly fine with me. And if found? Good for them. New challenges will follow!!!
My last 5e campaign (low magic, frontier setting) my players complained mightily about not getting as many items as they were used to in other RAW style campaigns. And they are now 10th level and have collected all sorts of weapons. But I'm not ready yet for a Staff of the Magi. In fact, I don't believe I have every given one away! But I'm very curious to hear if your players find it, and what happens next!
Interesting.....🤔🤔🤔
@@anon-yw4wd Agreed.
Like some I prefer a lower magic setting where it is rare, dangerous and powerful. And I wholeheartedly agree that for low level characters and the lower experienced player/DM a lower magic beginning is easier to wrangle.
There's also that thing where the campaign be ones about that and not the story: how many items does every one have, when and how do we get more, etc.
I mention this in other post regarding your earlier videos on magic.
Magic spell, Create food & water.
A.) stander D&D fantasy magic, food and water just appear to fill containers.
b.) Low magic effect, your party finds a pack mule with water skins, they can eat the mule.
c.) It rains and the party can drink from muddy rainwater puddles and eat earth worms that move up to the surface.
Druid spell, Good Berries.
a.) handful of bless berries that save off a day's worth of hunger.
b.) party gets a bonus on Survivor skill check to find roots, nuts, and insects for a few days worth of food base on party size.
Spell, create food.
a.) stander gruel as listed in PHB.
b.) druid/shaman bless the weakest shot in the hunting group to arrow/spear the deer or wild boar out hunting.
2.) Goblins steal granny's clay cooking pot.
Add a few bits of food and you get a half gallon pot that feeds a dozen people chicken soup.
Low level, party get Con bonus to resist disease and cure minor wounds during bed rest.
Mid level created by a 10th-level druid does Cure Disease and Cures Critical Wounds.
a.) Healing spells, as stander heals PC like Marvel Wolverine regeneration.
ai.) Low magic any heal spell just gives a Second Wind like a Short 15minute rest. Or extra Hp recovery from bed rest.
aii.) Cure Critical Wounds is close to stander fantasy healing magic, or has the n/pc recover ability score damage such as broken bones and cut/tore muscle tissues.
3.) Superstition and low folk magic.
Everything is view as being magical, but only spells 3rd-level or higher have a visional effect like Fire Ball or Lightning Bolt.
Even the spell Fire Ball can be written off as an incendiary grenade made from boil down urine till it glows blue in the dark.
a.) With WotC 3rd E. Magic items had an Xp cost value when making. So we just traded in Gp value for caster level Xp.
Even a simple wooden spoon or clay pot can be a peasant folk magic item. Instead of a gold frame silver mirror to go into another dimension, you just weave a bunch of tree branches together. Or dig a pit in the basement of some building to call a fiend from the underworld.
4.) Read up on other game system settings to see their own twist spin on magic is and work it over into your own D&D games.
Hope you all have a nice weekend, and G*D bless.
What I like about your ideas is that you are incorporating our shared experience of what makes magic items and applying them to a game situation. They work by using ordinary items, plants and animals of the every day world but are combined in a "magical" way to produce an effect. And they can be regulated for those effects. And I think working in other systems to a D&D (5e) setting is also good advice, though you can have players resist this!
@@DDHomebrew Player resistance been around since RPG got started.
Gate Keeping on, ..
AD&D2nde, whiny tone of voice, " That's not D&D, that is Swords & Sorcery."
When D&D and WEG west end games went to WotC 3rde.
To spice our games, we used Dead Lands mechanic of playing out a 5card poker hand. Play each suit card for a given effect and roll add 2d6 modifier. Over kill on roll 1d20+ class level skill/save modifiers + 2 to 10 card number follow with 2d6 rolled. Along with other players donating a card to greater improve your result.
Its .. role .. playing, so create group drama. Even those Loners types that don't normally voice ideals can feel what it is like to pitch in with group actives.
@@krispalermo8133 I like the Deadlands poker game. Can't wait to spring this on my group.
@@DDHomebrew What I learn from my grandparents who relatives from the Korean war and during the 1960's.
Tall tales of cards & dice.
Spades, attack & initiative.
hearts, health recovery, diplomacy, and moral recovery.
Clubs, damage and resist damage.
Diamonds, basic skill check, or random modifier on how much pocket change you have.
.. then roll 2d6 for random modifier increase.
Snake Eyes of double ones isn't so much as a critical failure but an action complication for dramatic effect.
Cartoons, Dumb Bo, Charlette Web, any Disney animal fable movie.
Character jumps up and lands on top of the fence for some song & dance but just overly silly and slips off the fence railing.
Over the years I have seen many people try balancing walk across a fence top only to end up near racking their junk/ balls.
2.) I seen the old ladies, mix Jin /rummy with 4d6 and tell the most over the top stories.
Well, they grew up without tv and only had radio dramas if the winds were blowing their way.
As for the cards, stander poke hand dealt, or start of game first round everyone gets three cards and each following round gains one or two cards. Players get the unused cards of the n/pc they defeat or what not.
a.) each round one card per player can be put into effect.
b.) draw two cards face down, roll 2d6. odds right side card is flip for effect, with evens the left card is flip.
c.) players see/ check what cards they have, or no one knows which cards they have. So draw two and flip coin for which card will be flip for play.
d.) Trade in a high number card for two lower number cards for multiple effects.
Chips or quarters/silver dollars for action per round go into the Pot.
Some call it a ladies/ old woman game cause real men play five card stud or Texas hold them. They are just bad in math and lack creativity. Then you have Europe Bacha which is just three card draw.
It slows down play time, but the random drama outcomes can produce the most ruckus of giggles.
One player got to play the Queen of Hearts ( 12 ) and rolled 2d6 with a 12 result. Total modifier +24 on action.
" Was it as Good for You as it was for Me ?"
Ace can count as a One or a 14.
Flip coin.
This gave some great pointers. I have been tinkering away on a story where I want limited magic, and this video gave me some great ideas on how to solve it.
Do glad it was helpful!
When I was running 5e games, I always dreamed of a low-magic campaign.
Then I found Cypher System and just lean into the gonzo. In one of my CS games, it's high magic in that there's high availability of cyphers & artifacts, but for the most part only the PCs have access to them. So they're high magic in a low magic setting, and it's been a great experience. :)
I have played a few times in the Cypter System and I liked the idea of finding cyphers and the way that they are used in the game system: they go away! As always, it can be difficult to find players for that system, but I think they are on to something with their version of magic.
One option for reducing the number of magic items is to make it so "magic dies with it's caster" ancient magic items tend to not be magic anymore because the enchanter has died. So the current enchanters are the source of magic items instead of all enchanters from the dawn of time. This also means knowing who enchanted your flaming sword can be important because you may want to take action to keep them alive; not just protect them but if an mad mage is a threat but they made a couple of your beloved items imprisonment is much more desirable then slaying, now you ant to take the mad mage alive!
I really like the idea that a magic is tied to its creator in such a way that if the item is destroyed, it takes something from the creator!
Great video. I've ran 2 low magic games so far & can agree that most of the time, people want to play high magic. I've also ran a high magic game & still running. Although the high magic is nice (im using Forgotten Realms as a base) I find the outcome of anything is possible to be cumbersome, because then in the wider sense of the multiverse/universe, nothing is set in stone & doesn't matter.
I'd like to see what others think of this as well.
I ran a high magic setting many years ago, and for us it evolved into more of a cartoon game than the usual serious "we have to solve X to save Y" sort of game that I usually run. Lots of handwaving and "you easily defeat them" stuff to avoid boring conflict.
Somewhere I read that 5E D&D was designed so that players could theoretically advance from level 1 to 20 without the aid of magic items. Can't remember where I saw that, maybe I imagined it?
I do remember when I played back in my younger days, (during the Carter administration), we had these things called Monty "Haul" dungeons, where DM's gave away a lot of magic items and players learned to expect that.
I am trying to strike a balance in Hibernia, where magic abounds, but it is fickle. Forget the items listed in the Dungeon Master's Guide, the players will be encountering mostly home brew items. Magic items, like armor, weapons and jewelry are rare and most likely crafted by the Tuathe de Danann, (ancient tribe of Gods). Magic items crafted by the gods are always caveat emptor.
Leprechaun craftsmen can also craft some magic items, like a backpack that always weighs five pounds, but only has the interior capacity of a normal backpack, great for hauling coins, but not for carrying around extra weapons or armor.
Players and NPC's will be able craft single use items like healing potions or copies of scrolls.
I liked the idea of "Moon Touched" Blades, found in the DMG. The weapons glow and have the "magic" property, but no pluses to hit or damage. This allows the players to attack monsters immune to non-magical weapons and helps characters without night vision. At level 3 I have a mission where the players can "Moon Touch" their blades by dipping them into the waters from the Well of St Expedite, but only at midnight, of the Summer Solstice, with a full moon, (basically a one minute time frame that occurs once every 30 years).
I also enjoyed the story about Wayland the Smith, in Kipling's book "Puck of Pook's Hill" and planned something like that as a one time random encounter, where an old god will modify the weapon of the first character that offers him work.
Sorry about the long reply, but I am sitting in the hospital and bored as all heck.
I love it when GM's incorporate mythology or stories like Kipling's into there game. I haven't read Puck of Pork's Hill in a long time, but I do remember the story of Wayland and his winged cloak amd l and know his influence on English cultural history. So why not make him a part of your world? Or leprechauns or any other classical magical being?
1] you let the character have it: deal with it. Or
2] what the GM giveth, the GM taketh away. If your players object to overt GM machinations in this area, then either be sneakier or
3] what the dice giveth, the dice taketh away.
4] establish from the very beginning that magic items either
a] are volatile and can fail, OR
b] are rare and getting the most out of them is a long term project.
Example of 4a] Every single magic item (or at least, the majority) has a roll to use. Fail that roll and one of (or the only) consequences is, the magic item doesn't work as expected (possibly in spectacular fashion...). A possible (or perhaps, the ONLY) result of a fail is the item no longer works, at all, ever--perhaps it ran out of "charges", maybe something else. Maybe it can be recharged, maybe not. Additionally, as a character rises in level, their "Item Use" roll improves, and so thus the dependability of their magic items. Example of 4b] A character inherits "the family sword". Not only is this thing a storied item full of lore, but also every time the character rises a level (or 3, or 5, or...), they unlock a new power, and assert greater control over the powers they already know how to use. Perhaps this is the only magic item that character will ever need. Etcetera...
A basic philosophy to always fall back on: If magic items are plentiful in the reality of the game world, then they don't last long, or otherwise have limits on their usability. If magic items can last and/or be powerful, then there aren't many.
I like to do this: in a world where magic is a known part of reality, if a character survives long enough using a particular item, that item starts to take on magical properties. It becomes a "lucky" (i.e. +1) version of that thing. If the character gains alot of levels, the item takes on a legendary aura, and has magical properties. For example, the lock pick set of a legendary thief (started out as mundane and was never enchanted by a spell caster) is treated with reverence by a rogue pc that discovers it, who begins unlocking it's powers. That pick set was mundane when it was first created. If the pick set has been used by a succession of thieves of renown, then all the better. Here's the fun part: the way the pc unlocks powers in their pick set is they must use it, maintain it, and cherish it of course, AND, they must research the deeds performed with that pick set by the famous thieves that have used it. Each ne bit of background info unlocks a new power, and each should be its own little (or large) side quest type of thing.
Have fun. 😊
A lot of great ideas here! I think in general the notion that as a player interacts with a magic item its powers become more known is very cool, and it makes sense. As much sense as magic makes in general! And there is a specialness in having the item that I think gets lost when you have a magic Walmart style setting where you simply have to have enough gold to buy whatever item you desire. It's part of the ongoing story to do the research to unock the powers of an item; or to discover a potential negative effect! And that means story, and that has power in an RPG.
In my world, spells disappear with their maker unless they have been written in another tome. The same thing works for magic items. For the most part, artificers make temporary/charge-based items. there are ways to cast permanence on magic items, but it's so time and resource intensive that most artificitors will only do so a few times in their life. Even then, the permanence is a roll once they pass away. So the permanence may not even last past their lifetime. The more time someone has put into the material, the more likely it is that the permanence will stick. This is something of a balance for those players that want to be an artificer. They can make temporary items that are charge-based, but if they want to make something permanent it's going to take an incredible amount of downtime.
Very interesting ideas!
@@DDHomebrew It was also part of my justification for why most art of magical items seems to make them out to be incredibly ornate and artistic pieces. All of that extra time and detail work increases the chance of it actually being a permanent magic item. It doesn't really affect the players that much in that way, but it definitely makes my world feel more internally consistent and sane.
@@WhisperingWisp357 We forget about the importance of flavor sometimes. It adds to the experience, investment and immersion.
I run a high level game but every item has a number of charges. Not all of them is a set number but the pc can see the item rotting. Even simple magic items like a +1 sword may quickly fade. Critical misses also add to the chance of items breaking.
It's so interesting how GM's have developed techniques to limit magic item bloat. And why shouldn't a +1 sword have the possibility to fae upon uses, or critical misses have some negative effect? I think it allows the players to appreciate those items more. But of course, that's a GM talking!
The best way to do this is to remove casters from the list available classes for PCs, casters are now regulated to very unique NPCs that more than likely quests are geared around. Magic Items should now be apart of epic quests. Monsters also become more unique singular foes, instead of "oh its a troll" its now "oh shit, its THE TROLL." Since you now have to really lean on the use of alchemical items and creativity to fight monsters instead of falling back on the walking nukes the casters are.
It is interesting how casters always seem to come to dominate D&D style systems, however far back you go. So there's always this pressure to reign them in.
I tend to model Sword & Sorcery motifs. There is plenty of Magick --- it's just mysterious and dangerous --- and the 'common folk' do not trust it, so it is either illegal, immoral, or at least feared --- and of course there is the dichotomy of religious Magick versus arcane (or profane) Magick. Add to that, arcane magick in my games tends to be both addictive and corrupting over time and as the 'power level' increases. Sooner or later, those who dabble are going to pay a hefty price, and those who are with or around them may pay it too. I believe the key to "low magick" is Mystery, Danger, Fear, and ultimately some sort of Sacrifice. These will curb the 'high-magick' ideals with in-game, story-telling consequences. Of course, supernatural creatures or other entities are not similarly affected --- its just those pesky humans trying to play around with forces best left alone that suffer (mostly).
Anyway, love your vids --- keep 'em coming --- always a treat.
Exactly the same in my world. Arcane Magic caused the the downfall of the world 200 years in the past (my "Mage Plague", yeah I know, a trope). Most of the kingdoms distrust the high Mages (thanks also to the Religious folks). But, the leaders are not above using a Mage on occasion, quietly though.
Great points: I mentioned this briefly in the video, because the details can get both complicated and scare off players. But I"ve played in just the sort of setting you describe and had a great time. Of course, I was a secret magick practitioner and got caught a few times and suffered from corruption effects!
That's what makes the "magic is illegal" setting so intriguing: the players will come across magic, either in their group or through NPC's, because they are part of the population that powerful figures turn to for help.
thank you!
Glad you liked the video!
Loved the Matilda shot with Devito, helpful video it was like hearing myself think out loud
Great that you noticed that! And I always know that when it comes to promoting a low level magic system, other GM's are going to agree!
@@DDHomebrew I want the magic to have this weight that comes with welding it as well as the danger of becoming an evil persona from over reaching power
@@travman228 Another under-rated effect of magic: it's corruptive power! Just like fame or wealth in the real world.
I have always had a stark contrast between magic and divine given powers. A divine character can still have the same downward spiral should they use their power for selfish desires. Really it's about the roleplay aspect being at the forefront, which limits the "I cast fireball" or murder hoboing every encounter. It allows for tension and the choice to either snap the rubberband suddenly or ease it slowly back.
@@travman228 It's interesting how they don't stress divine casters obligation to their God's ideals much anymore.
Great video! I definitely think low magic setting are worth exploring. My preferred fantasy is Sword & Sorcery which is typically low magic 😉
I agree! I'd love to run a little Sword and Sorcery to review it!
Thank you
You're welcome!
My world is mid to high fantasy, but I keep it under control using the Lord of the Rings Directive, someone made it, someone put it into play for a reason, someone is looking for it, or it is already attached to a force. Say you get a sword from a dragon's hoard, the dragon's child had an eye on that piece in father's hoard, and he is going to come for it. That ring of regeneration was designed to help a cleric on a specific quest but he was killed, now that sect wants the ring back. Everything is connected by its story, the ring my have gifted to the party by the priest who was on the quest as he died, but they must complete his quest. Maybe that sword was given to a death knight or a celestial and it was lost in battle now beings of his alignment are trying to get it back to the owner, maybe it marks them, maybe the item is trying to get back to its original owner who is less powerful without it. Weapons of great power require great energy to make, some have a bit of a demon's soul or the burning spirit of an angel bound into it. That item is going to set off every alarm of a magic attuned being, and it is only yours as long as you can hold on to it. I made a revenant that couldn't move on until he got his sword back, he had been a famed paladin, now he was a haunt and people sent out the party to destroy him. There is always a story.
This is a very great idea! Thanks!
Great analogy of Magic to Nukes and arms dealers. Expendable / consumable materials is better to keep the power balance effective
Glad you liked the video. It's always interesting to compare the "reality' of a world with magic with the real world.
Excellent video on a well debated subject.
I am crafting a new homebrew world that is being designed for open hexcrawl sandbox play. I am regulating magic by adopting a similar system to the mage schools from the world of Krynn of Dragonlance. This includes crafting magic items.
Technically, the everyday world the players come into contact with is low magic. The ordinary people do not come into contact with magic at all. It is highly regulated by a covenant of nations that is enforced stringently. Rogue wizards are not tolerated. I have always found it highly illogical that a world with magic would generally allow mages to run around willy-nilly with no regulatory structure. Otherwise, eventually, mages would kill everyone in positions of power. Then they would rule the world through sheer force as total dictators similar to Alphatia in Mystara.
You have followed the existence of magic to its logical conclusion: a magocracy. There's a famous Dragon article that calculated Gandalf was a 5th level magic user based on his spells. Whether it's true, think of how powerful high level spellcasters becomes at 15th or higher level. There is tremendous suspension of disbelief.
Exactly. Thus the need for heavy regulation.
I strongly prefer low magic settings. I mean I enjoy some high power stuff, but I just can't help following to the logical conclusion, ie WalMag, magic-as-technology, etc.
I feel like in the D&D style settings magic always gets out of hand if you play RAW. And when you try to restrict it the players can feel cheated.
Low-magic world is FAR more fun than a high magic one.
I agree. And will continue to preach it!
Depends on the play style.
@@anon-yw4wd I always say if the players want lots of magic, the NPCs get them as well!
I have the same problem you mentioned
I love Low Magic settings but my players are way more into High Magic ones :/
Same.
It's never the opposite. I wonder why? Heh heh.
@@DDHomebrew 😭
@@juauke 😵
im about to run a low magic game, so gald i found this, any tips are wecleomed
Glad you liked it!
I think better descriptions would be: High Magic, Moderate Magic, Low Magic.
1. High Magic=Magic People/Players/Items/Areas/etc.
2. Moderate Magic=Magic People/Players/Areas but Magic Items are Rare.
3. Low Magic=Magic in any sort of way is extremely rare and limited to maybe a very small handful of people & even then it's far weaker then other settings.
I tried to say this but admittedly didn't define it as clearly as you did. And with this definition I might go with moderate level.