How Led Zeppelin Saved Katy Perry and Extinguished Flame ft. Adam Neely (Real Law Review)
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- čas přidán 8. 04. 2020
- Katy Perry lost $2.8 million copyright judgment, but then she didn’t...
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Summary from Law360:
A California federal judge on Tuesday tossed out a jury verdict that Katy Perry's 2013 song "Dark Horse" infringed an earlier Christian rap song, ruling that the tracks share only common musical elements that cannot be protected by copyright law.
Overturning a July verdict against the pop star, the judge ruled that the "ostinato" that Perry allegedly copied from a song called "Joyful Noise" was too basic for any one artist to monopolize.
"It is undisputed in this case, even viewing the evidence in the light most favorable to plaintiffs, that the signature elements of the 8-note ostinato in 'Joyful Noise' [are] not a particularly unique or rare combination," U.S. District Judge Christina A. Snyder wrote.
"The other elements present in plaintiff's 8-note ostinato also do not bring the combination within the ambit of copyright law's protection," the judge wrote.
Notably, Judge Snyder on multiple occasions cited last week's decision by the Ninth Circuit on "Stairway To Heaven," including one portion that said musical "building blocks belong in the public domain."
The ruling went against a hip-hop artist named Flame, who sued Perry in 2014 on the accusation that she had lifted material from "Joyful Noise" when she wrote "Dark Horse," a 2013 song on her album Prism. In July, a California federal judge agreed, later ordering Perry to pay $2.8 million in damages.
Following the decision undoing that verdict, an attorney for Flame - legal name Marcus Gray - vowed to appeal the outcome.
"Back last summer when the jurors returned a unanimous verdict of infringement, I cautioned my clients that we had only finished Round 11 of a 15-round match and that the next round would take place in the court of appeals," Michael A. Kahn, attorney for Flame, told Law360. "We believe the jury was right and will do our best to restore their verdict on appeal."
An attorney for Perry and other defendants did not return a request for comment.
In post-trial motions that led to Tuesday's ruling, Perry argued that the ostinato featured in both "Dark Horse" and "Joyful Noise" was a "commonplace expression" that "no creator can monopolize."
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I love your vids
Check out my beats and tell me if they're copyright infringement? Lol, kidding. But thank you, this was relevant to what I do
Still waiting for that LegalEagle and Dr Mike collab
Please make a video on Sabarimala case in India Supreme Court like you have made a video on pewdiepie t series and Indian law.
What about a review of the movie Accepted or the show Eli Stone
I have been summoned
Holy shit why does your comment only have five likes my _dude_
OwO
@@Nekomosh004 I raise you uwu
@Eli Z @Eli Z Count yourself lucky! I did the same and ended up summoning a craptastic "genie." He doesn't grant wishes. He just practices his stand up routines, which largely involves copying Robin Williams. What a bummer. 🧞♂️
69 th
Summoning Adam Neely via The Lick tickled me in a way I didn't know possible.
Please only use this power for good.
I almost died. I think its because they're both on Skill Share
that was amazing
I had no idea what he was going to do and then all it was was just the lick
Ikr.
I like how Flame's lawyer cited "pitch" as one of the infringed elements despite the two songs being in different keys.
Flame should release a song called "Grasping at Straws."
Meant intervals - the pitch changes from note to note not generally. It's reasonably said, but I'm against lawsuits for bs like this anyway. If they didn't sue: they would likely have gained new fans with notice to their track they wouldn't have had - that wasn't bad publicity of them coming across as greedy dicks. The only people that were cool with what they did that would potentially spend money on their merchandise/albums - are the die-hard fans that would have anyway. I'm sure they turned a lot of people off doing this. Imitation is the greatest flattery.
I like how Katy’s lawyers obviously didn’t catch that to argue with (and many other things) on the first round- it was thrown out real fast for a reason.
Also, it cited “timbre” as though the songs didn’t use completely different virtual instruments for the melody.
@@cailinanne unfortunately, it doesn't matter whether or not the lawyers caught it, only what convinced the jury, and if a convincing enough "expert" sways the jury, that's it. Its sad, but "truth" doesn't always win, law is based on "belief", no matter how sure people want you to feel when they send someone to death row
Taking notes on this for my Copyright law exam I’m taking in two hours because it’s actually more helpful than most of the class notes I have. Please send thoughts and prayers
how did it go?
Let us know how it went
Tots and pears, brohem. Tots and pears.
Update?
Sorry this took so long, but it helped on the exam! It asked specifically about this case. Law school only gave out pass/fail instead of grades that semester b/c of Covid but I felt like I would've gotten a good grade if there had been grades, for what it's worth.
LegalEagle and Adam Neely in the same video? I like it.
LegalEagle summoning Adam Neely by playing the lick? This is, without a doubt, the greatest crossover I will ever witness.
What is this, a crossover episode?
He has to whip out the guitar to summon Rick Beato too.
@@bengski68 just more lame clickbait to get more views. Lawyers have no tact and no shame.
I had to fan myself when I read the title lol
@@toarrestsomeoneistoviolate2643 you must be fun at parties...
It must suck to be on that jury. You are bound to lose any future arguments with your spouse as you have been legally found to be the unreasonable one.
The worst part would be having to listen to those two horrible songs over and over again for days or weeks in a row.
I kind of wonder how many times when something like this actually does come before a jury they aren't just like "Eh, why NOT make this huge world famous pop star pay millions of dollars to this little guy".
@@combatrock5931 I hope it never happens.
@@bosstowndynamics5488 I know what jury nullification is but what does that have to do with putting up with bad music?
I would have loved beinf on that jury, but being a musician I'm pretty sure I would have been excused immediately.
I'm amazed how this 25 minute video about songs sounding the same, and containing bass guitars didn't mention the infamous under pressure vs ice ice baby dispute.
That case was different in that Ice Ice Baby sampled Under Pressure. That isn't just playing the same notes - it's copying a segment of a recording directly.
@@neilbradley it wasn't a sample. He was sued by David Bowie/Queen they eventually came to an agreement that allowed him to call it a sample.
Wait those are two different songs? o_o
It was settled out of court before a lawsuit was actually filed, so that's probably why. Ironically, Van Winkle probably would have won the case, if it were to happen today.
@@scsitransfer he wasn't sued, Bowie and Queen got him to settle by merely *threatening* to sue him.
Record company: ah! 5 seconds of our music has been detected in another video!
*sees that the video is a professional lawyer talking about copyright law*
Record company: never mind
😂😂😂
Copyright holders directly tell CZcams that a video is infringing, and CZcams takes down the video voluntarily. That is allowed by CZcams's terms of service. The content creator/uploader has to convince CZcams to put the video back up.
Okay, another thing that I’d like to point out: Flame claimed the two ostinatoes resolved in a similar manner. That is.... bull. KP’s resolves to the Dominant chord. Flame’s resolves to Tonic chords. Musically, dominant chords and tonic chords have opposite functions, and resolving to them makes your song very different. The dominant increases musical tension, the tonic relieves it. That’s why KP’s ostinato sounds darker/more intense/ has more momentum.
Basically, this is the musical equivalent of trying to say food with a bitter aftertaste tastes the same as food with a sweet aftertaste. Complete opposites.
I would give a like for that but you're at 69 likes...nice
That's why they wanted a jury. They would never find people who understand music theory among common folk.
KP's changes on the repeat, it ends on the dominant the first time and on the tonic on the repeat, the musical score breakdown in the video was incorrect about only one of them changing on the repeat
Neat thanks for teaching me 😊
@@StoopidBishop Even more than that, they probably struck anyone with advanced music knowledge during voir dire.
The existence of rule 50 makes me feel like the entire legal system is a game and lawyers are just hardcore gamers trying to outplay each other.
...That might be the most accurate description of law I've ever heard.
You’re not wrong...
This is surprisingly accurate
Ah, grasshopper...
Ringo Starr said that he tried to write songs when he was in The Beatles but every time his band mates would tell him he re-wrote a Carl Perkins song 😃
XD
The Beatles covered some Carl Perkins songs, probably just to appease Ringo.
I mean, a couple of his songs did make it onto albums
@Eckser
Dude, try again. George was the heaviest fan of Carl Perkins among the four of them. This is well established.
Imagine if "Mary Poppins" sued "The King's Speech" because it was set in London. That's what we're dealing with here.
Not at all the same.
I was gonna add a joke about patenting bouncing balls.
...had to google it tho, just in case something had changed since I was a kid. It has. Carry on.
No
It really is on that level. Consistent 8th notes and the 3-2-1 "Three Blind Mice" motion are utterly pedestrian building blocks of western music. Might as well sue over iambic pentameter or a sitcom premise where the protagonist doesn't get along with the in-laws.
Epic Rap Battles of History: Legal Eagle vs The LockPickingLawyer
I would pitch money to see this
🤔🤔🤔
I would have preferred a collab
@@stretchyone
Damn straight!!! Take my money and gimme ERB!!!
But Doctor Mike must be a good collab as well. Legal Eagle gives me the same vibes with his content like Doctor Mike
OBJECTION: i tried summoning Adam with THE LICK
and now he's in my bathroom and won't leave.
Someone please help.
Every time you ask him to leave, he just plays a 7/11 polyrhythm.
It’s his bathroom now.
To defeat him you must play THE KCIL
play the dies irae and hell be banished
You need to play T H E L I C K in Retrograde Inversion. Common mistake.
This reminds me of those shady companies filing thousands of utility patents in the hopes that one day some actual innovator will create a product that requires owning such a patent. It does nothing more than cost the innovator money and prevent economic growth and progress. Flame was just as sleazy for pursuing this case. Thankfully the opposing counsel filed rule 50. Great video as always!
I wonder if (burnt out) Flame had to pay back the money
Not the artists fault, his label is the ones that brought it to court, that's how most of these copyright battles are
@@johnbush5347 Flame's record label is Clear Sight Records. The founder and owner of Clear Sight Records is Flame.
So yeah, Flame is the slimy little weasel behind this lawsuit.
Those shady companies sound like cyber-squatters. I bought 3 domains through Google ($36 for all 3) for my band, using 2 of them as redirects, and someone contacted me right away to offer me a similar (but useless) domain for $500. I've seen some cyber-squatters trying to get thousands for domains they're just sitting on.
I was thinking the same. Especially there are companies that get all sorts of ridiculous software patents and then launch frivolous lawsuits. Just as with music theory the average person doesn’t understand how software developers use a set of patterns and algorithms and are constantly reusing them from one system to another.
When you compose music, you're always influenced by some melodies you've heard someday. Even without realising it!
Deadmau5 - "FML", 2009 - almost unintentionally aptly named.
vs. Little Bitchard - Isoljator, first published as part of Kewlers - Protozoa in 2003 with about 800 witnesses.
Only a few thousand people have ever heard of Kewlers, but turns out, Deadmau5 is one of them, he mentioned that he loves and follows them in an interview, and they have common friends like the late Arguru whom Deadmau5 dedicated a song to. It is not to suggest that he lifted the hook on purpose, but it just happens.
Kewlers had no intention of taking him to court. Their response was to one-up him with "Kewlers All-Stars - Isoljator Remixed - Isoljator (OMG PLZ Remix)"
i mean at this point in my career, I simply just wear my influences on my sleeve, no need to shy away from it. It makes cases like Yellowcard suing the deceased juicewrld that much more infuriating when there were very very very few unique melodies in pop punk and juicewrld never shied away from showing that he had a great appreciation for the genre while he was alive
@@NihilisaFrank I do as well. Like how Quentin tarentino is absolutely shameless and is even front and center about taking from other people. Just don’t be fake about it and claim it as 100% your own. We’re all inspired bu something at the end of the day. And music has been around for so long, there’s probably someone in history who has done something similar to you.
I love music. I live for it, I have not seen a single interview that does not include influences... Going back to the 70s and 80s you hear some people say they straight lifted a progression. In my view it's fair game since the original will always be available, and if the new one is better than the progression got put to better use.
When LegalEagle summons Adam Neely by playing the lick
A man of culture,I see
Having a copyright on an eight note ostinato is like having a copyright on the phrase 'and then they went'
To be fair, that phrase needs to die horribly. Both as someone that writes and as someone that reads, it ALWAYS irks the shit out of me.
Not necessarily. This particular ostinato pattern is very generic because of the simple rhythm and the limited number of notes it uses. But there are riffs that have less notes but still sound unique.
The intro riff of Enter Sandman is a 6-note ostinato, but sounds very unique and recognizable. And if someone used that riff in their song, I don't think it would be ridiculous if Metallica sued them over it.
The bass intro of Under Pressure is iconic and it only uses two different notes and only 7 notes in total. And when Vanilla Ice copied that riff and used it in Ice Ice Baby, they were rightfully required to give Queen songwriting credits.
The main riff of Black Sabbath is very recognizable and only uses three notes.
There are many unique musical ideas that you can create with just 8 notes. But if that musical idea just uses quarter notes and repeats the same note over and over again, then it shouldn't be copyrightable.
@@MaggaraMarine As the video explains it depends on every individual song. I can guarantee that there are original compositions which contain ostinato similar to the songs you mentioned. There's a near limitless amount of music that exists.
For the Black Sabbath example I can prolly name a few off the top of my head: Festering in the Crypt by Cannibal Corpse being one. I think every single stoner metal band could be accused of infringing on Black Sabbath copyrights by that logic. Maybe Doom Metal as well.
The tone is super important imo. Woth under pressure it was less about the composition and more about the fact that it was actually ripped wholesale. If it was an entirely different instrument, tempo, etc. I think that argument would be a lot harder to make.
@@K0sm1cKid
When it comes to guitar riffs, I think it would probably have to be basically note-for-note the same for it to be a copyright infringement. The intro of "As I Am" by Dream Theater is actually pretty much a straight rip off of "Black Sabbath" - the rhythm is slightly different (the only difference being that the third note is on the "and" of four instead of the first beat of the next bar), but other than that, it is exactly the same. Pretty sure it was also a conscious reference to "Black Sabbath". Yeah, I think in a case like that you would need to use pretty much exactly the same arrangement. While "Black Sabbath" is an iconic riff, it's probably a bit too simple to be copyrightable. But if the whole Dream Theater song was based on that riff (that starts at 0:35) and didn't progress the way it does, there might be a case for copyright infringement there. But it would have to be structurally similar to "Black Sabbath".
Also, just because it would be possible for Black Sabbath to sue Dream Theater over that song doesn't mean they are going to do it. We need to remember that a more popular band suing a smaller band may make the more popular band look bad. (I mean, this is not really related to songwriting, but when Metallica sued Napster, it made them look really bad and people still make jokes about it, even though I don't think them suing Napster was necessarily unjust.) Also, Dream Theater making a reference to their song is not going to affect Black Sabbath negatively, and Black Sabbath are probably just going to take it as a compliment.
I didn't hear how "Festering in the Crypt" was similar to "Black Sabbath" (not sure which part you are talking about, but I assume you are talking about the intro). It definitely has a similar feel to it than some Black Sabbath riffs, but the riff was quite different from "Black Sabbath".
_"The tone is super important imo. Woth under pressure it was less about the composition and more about the fact that it was actually ripped wholesale. If it was an entirely different instrument, tempo, etc. I think that argument would be a lot harder to make."_
Good point. It's not a super-unique idea, but when you use the specific combination of certain elements, then it's a clear rip off.
Last time I saw that phrase was when Fat Freddy was cranked on coke and made a whole novel of nothing but that phrase. I laughed for 20 minutes when I saw a page of that.
I didn't know that Katy Perry won the appeal and i'm very glad that she did. As a musician and composer hearing about her losing this lawsuit the first time I was terrified about my future. Thank you for letting me know I can rest easy!
As a musician, I really appreciate your work hear and use of Adam Neeley as an expert witness. Excellent video!
The ruling was idiotic... As Adam Neely covered well in his video about it. Glad to hear it got changed.
@brandon roberts That bit is way too short and "basic" to copyright. If 8-notes could be copyrighted from _similar_ 8 note strings being made, we would run out of songs to make in a very short time.
@ Exactly. It's only similar in 6 of 8 notes. That's only 75% similarity. Not to mention the differences in the tone and modulation in the way the notes were produced, making them audibly distinct on an objective level.
@@Just_A_Dude I honestly don't even see how people in the jury ruled it was similar enough to be ruled as copied.The shifting of notes at the end is jarringly different, and doesn't FEEL that similar. The first 4 notes are just a repeated note, so it really feels like 5 elements (last 4 plus 1 weird intro), which would only be 60% similar.
@@KaosOrder because they are not expert in the field
@@KaosOrder Like T H said the jury was not full of experts and the expert they got to speak in court confused the jury by using language only really known by people who study music and musical theory.
Eh, I wouldn’t say Flame “believes” she stole his music.
More like his lawyer told him he could make some money.
Well "belief" is all it takes fore him to call it fact. No evidence required. 🤔
Does anybody here believe ( voice crack)🎶
Also a fuckton of publicity
Considering the crap in the lawsuit about "Dark Horse" promoting "witchcraft, paganism, black magic, and Illuminati imagery" and thus tainting the "devoutly religious message" of "Joyful Noise" I'd imagine he fully believes that Perry stole his song.
Merc at Arms and get some streams/view
The band was Spirit, “Taurus” was the song. One of many great ones from a great band!
See Axis of Awesome, "Four Chord Song."
Every time someone plays the lick, an Adam Neely gets his wings.
Funny, I always got a Beetlejuice vibe...
@@ksully27 then the lick should be played three times
COPYWRITE INFRIGEMENT! It's a Wonderful Life coming after ya. (and to be preemptive, FAIR USE MY ASS.)
Adam Neely is one talented musician, nice to see you summon him with *the lick*
I thought you were limited to anime
Did anyone else notice this section in the description?
Remember to make your comments Stella-appropriate. Stella is the LegalBeagle and she wields the gavel of justice. DO NOT MESS WITH STELLA.
So cute!
no because people don't read the description
@@pikgears Personally if something requires clicking on a "See More"-type link, I don't read it because I already feel like I see too much and the last thing I want is to see more.
As a music major student and law aficionado, i thoroughly enjoyed this video
"This is my ostinato. There are many like it but this one is mine."
- Flame at music bootcamp (presumably)
"Without me, my ostinato is useless. Without my ostinato, I am useless."
More like "That one bit sounds vaguely like mine if you listen real hard. CHA-CHING!!! :D "
Any trained musician will tell you this particular suit is
like suing your neighbor for having a brick house
because your brick house was built first.
(Most) Hip hop producers and artists would be pretty hypocritical to sue anyone, ever, because unpaid/uncredited/illegal sampling is Pandora's box.
This kind of collab is why i'm still learning from channels like these. Super interesting and well made.
Furthermore, a decent chunk of western music is built on copying each others work. Composers have, in the past, copied entire melodic lines from another composer as a method of tribute or reference.
Even the most casual musician can tell you that being able to copyright riffs would destroy music entirely, not just as we know it. It would not just be suing the neighbour for building the brick house. It would be suing a neighbour for using bricks because you used bricks first.
@monokhem It is called Jesus Hitler. The band that released it was called Carnivore. Its bassist, vocalist, and composer was given a medal by Tony Iommi. Mind you, this medal was for the man's cover of Black Sabbath (the song). I doubt that Tony has never heard Jesus Hitler.
Songs like Sweat Loaf and Dum Dum, by the Butthole Surfers. Have a listen to those, too. None of them have been sued. Go figure.
I love when lawyers use the reference "passing a low bar".
There is no further joke here.
Mr. Cupid should know things like this before saying his song is copied
👁👄👁👍
Up
💅
Rapper: You stole my melody!
Katy: uhhhh....no?
(J.S. Bach has entered the chat)
Tokkyo Ghetto Pussy "I Kiss Your Lips" vs Pachelbel. Bars 5 to 8 of the vocal ostinato!
To be fair he's been dead for some 250+ years so all his work is in the public domain
@@ep1x3 Would Bach be Disney he would be still keeping all copyrights today.
@@TremereTT judging by his wig he'd probably try
*returns from the grave with ominous music*
minor point of contention: the plaintiff listed timbre as one of the copied elements and they are not at all similar! Dark Horse's ostinato is statically pitched, with an airy, glassy timbre and Joyful noise is basically a triangle wave with substantial pitch sliding. They aren't even close. Why would they make this argument?
To confuse people that aren't well versed in musicology. Part of the reason that the jury decided against Perry in the original trial is because Flame's lawyers brought an argument that most people who have studied music theory would have considered a load of crap.
cause they want the cash. LegalEagle is cool but remember these are lawyers and they would rip your heart off in front of a jury if that was necessary
Dark Horse actually sounds like part of the synth is a vocal sample pitched way the hell up, so i don't even know how they can argue that was stolen
Depends on the exact wording of the current law. The old law simply required 7 notes judged to be the same.
to gain money ...
At the start of this video, I was hoping you would bring up Adam Neely's video on the subject. Then you pull out a bass, play "the lick" and Neely appears.
Nice work.
If I've said it once, I've said it a million times! *LED ZEPPELIN IS THE SOLUTION TO EVERYTHING*
Hey Legal Eagle, do you remember that scene in the beginning of "The Incredibles" where Mr. Incredible was sued for saving a man's life? Is that actually possible and if so, why?
While he's not a lawyer, Film Theory did an episode on this: czcams.com/video/2euhroKGAN0/video.html
I feel like he covered that sort of situation in another video, but I'm not sure.
@@FrenkTheJoy yeah he definitely touched upon good samaritan laws at some point but I cannot for the life of me remember in which video.
Not exactly a direct comparison, but before China implimented it's own version of the Good Samaritan law, there was a feared (if not common) con where someone (often an elderly person) would, upon injury - or faking injury, claim the person trying to help them caused the injury (e.g. if they fell over and broke their knee and someone tries to help, they'd sue the helper for 'pushing them over', or another example if they nearly drowned and someone fractured their ribs giving them CPR, they'd sue them for unneccesarily fracturing their ribs despite the risk of death otherwise).
This lead to quite a few people dying in populated places with no one trying to help them as well as behaviour such as when people ran away from the fainting foreigner in a train in Shanghai a little while back, hence the change in law.
Canaan Pryor I’ve heard it possible but I’m not sure! That would be a cool episode! I was told that like... if someone’s airway swells and you’re a doctor- so you do an emergency tracheotomy- by law, they can sue you if they didn’t consent to it. Tho, surely it’s more about damages that occurred as a result of you helping (I don’t know...? Like you had to break a window to get to the person) than actually helping the person.
I'd love a review of an episode of the office called "The Deposition". It's not a courtroom drama, but rather just a deposition in a board room. It's a hilarious episode, and I would be interested to see how close they came to reality.
yes id love to see his take on that episode. i thought it was reasonably accurate but im sure he could find some issues
LegalEagle: Some things aren't copyrightable at all, such as a chord progression
Ed Townsend's Lawyers: Hold my briefcase
Just a small thing but, @18:00 you introduce: "and here's Taurus's song, Spirit".
It's actually Spirit's song, Taurus. (great album BTW)
I'm glad someone else said it. I love Spirit... great band, so underrated! ('12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus' is my fave)
@@cr8833 Just posted about this, too. 12 dreams has been on rotation since my infancy - literally.
it's like how fashion can't exactly be copyrighted. the logos can, but you can't own a specific stitch or hem
Actually a Dutch chain (Hema) was sued by a big jeans company (I think it was Levi's but not 100% sure). The lawsuit was about the fact that the stitch lines on the back pockets were almost the same. Hema lost and had to pay, they challenged the verdict because the amount they had to pay was higher than the sales value (the jeans sold for about €20 each) but at that point they just wanted to get the fine down.
N O ah yes that was Levis, but they were only able to sue because they made the case that their pattern on back pockets is a symbol of the Levis brand itself, so it qualified as a “logo”
You can't copyright a specific method for making a thing either. Only the thing you made. This becomes interesting in the world of software. Some methods in programming literally are not copyrightable, but larger applications are.
When you said music expert, I immediately thought ‘Adam Neely’(I watch him all the time) and when you played the lick, I died. I never could have imagined such a crossover.
The title of the video literally says: "ft. Adam Neely". But okay. 😝
@@Aethenthebored You only read things shorter than 10 words?
@@TheMrVengeance in the app you can't see the whole title. It ends at ft.
If the original poster is accessing this via the phone app they would have not seen the full title and, therefore, would not have known who it featured.
@@nevesdarocha Ok? But once they click on the video the title shows in full...
as a music major myself, i don't know how any of this is legal. to me these songs, as presented, sound distinct enough to be protected. I hope all gets the outcome they want.
"Honestly you probably don't even need that much of a lesson to play the Ostinato from Dark Horse"
BUUUUURRRNN!!!
*shots fired*
you do need very steady rhythm practice though
OBJECTION: The band in the Stairway to Heaven case is Spirit, and the song is Taurus. You started switching them partway through the video.
I'd recommend anyone put on a Spirit album -- one of their first four -- for guaranteed satisfaction
@@bystrozrak Essential listening and officially pressed ownership, for sure.
I just wrote a thesis on this (but how it can be used to help Australia’s copyright law). I wish that this came out sooner, because I would have really benefited from watching it during my research stages.
Hey Sam. Great work there. I would really love to read your research on copyright 😊😊. Is it available to the public? How can we work that out?
James McKeown Debrah Thanks, mate. It’s actually for university, and I have to wait and see if it’s good enough to get published. They might require me to change some things, so it might be a month or so. Also, it’s mainly about transformational use in Australian copyright law, so I don’t know how relevant that will be for you.
@@samsouyave-murphy986 ook thanks a lot bro. No problem there. Wishing you all the best 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Hey Sam, I’d be interested in reading your thesis too. I’m an Aussie, and a muso, so it’d help a lot.
Craig Reardon Sure thing! Once it’s released, I’ll comment on this comment chain. If you have any further questions about Australian copyright law after that, feel free to comment back. I’ve studied it extensively for the past few months, and I absolutely love the area. However, I must note that I can’t give you proper, qualified legal advice, as I am only in law school.
Thanks for clarifying the difference between a jury's mandate to decide factual matters vs a bench's role in resolving matters of law. A lot of case law narratives that I was confused about now make sense.
I laughed out loud when you played the lick on your bass the first time, and then laughed more when Adam Neely showed up
I call bull. I've been playing the lick for years now and have never successfully summoned Adam Nealy
Sorry 'bout that. I summoned him to my basement and have playing the lick on repeat since
Well you have to have a good reason
Or he just has to be really bored
Did you turn it up to 11?
Yea but a lawyer knows the proper procedure to issue a summons
was it ever a musical emergency
Summoning Adam by playing the riff is the shit that makes me go from a casual subscriber to an avid fan. Good on ya
A similar case involves one of the most played songs ever, "Hotel California". Apparently, The Eagles were on tour with Jethro Tull (PRIOR to writing Hotel California). Jethro Tull had a song in their set called "We Used To Know". The Eagles would've heard that song every night for months. It bears a remarkable similarity with "Hotel California". However, when asked about it, Ian Anderson, singer, songwriter, leader and Flautist-on-one-leg of Jethro Tull said that given that there are only so many chords and so many ways of playing them, it is not surprising that sometimes, two songs will sound the same or similar. That's quite a generous reaction given how much money The Eagles made off the back of "Hotel California"!
There was another prominent copyright case recently in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals that will impact far more musicians because it specifically pertains to school music ensembles performing copyrighted music. I'd be interested to see you break down Tresona Multimedia, LLC v. Burbank High School Vocal Music Association.
It'd be embarrassing for a musician to have a court make an official judgement that your work is unoriginal and not very creative haha.
Just the premise of this video made me overjoyed. This case blew my mind. Led Zeppelin will always be my favorite band no matter who they draw their influence from.
This is my issue with the "jury" system, how can a group of non experts/inexperienced people make this decision? Layers arguing the case will choose biased "experts" to reason in their benefit how is a jury to make the correct decision? Unless you have experienced people from the music industry to listen to all arguments this will be decided on luck maybe?
Oh my gravy, the way you summoned Nelly with “the lick”, love this channel. Subbed and what not.
Legal eagle is awesome!
Fighting for the copyright to a piece of music that simplistic strikes me as being a lot like trying to patent the angle you hold your guitar at.
When you brought up Castaway, that made me think: "What is needed if you are, somehow, declared legally dead, but are still alive..what is needed to prove yourself legally alive, and what would the repercussions of such a declaration be?"
I swear I've heard of a case like this. Dude was thought to be dead, legally declared dead, and then showed up in court to prove himself alive.... And lost
If I find the case, I'll post it here
@@LowReedExpert1 I know...I had heard of something similar, which is why I brought it up. It might be legal urban legend, but it might be interesting to hear a lawyer talk about it.
@@LowReedExpert1 I know...I had heard of something similar, which is why I brought it up. It might be legal urban legend, but it might be interesting to hear a lawyer talk about it.
@@alexbrown1930 seriously, an amazingly dumb situation that's perfectly legal, perfect for the channel
Depends how you were declared to be legally dead. If it was a circumstance where you *were* dead, but were revived and then nobody did the corrective paperwork, whichever poor bastard didn't pass on the memo first would be the one facing the repercussions for any harm suffered.
Adam Neely / Legal Eagle crossover was not what I was expecting tonight, but was thrilled to see!! That case made me sooo infuriated!
I love it when two youtubers I know unexpectedly do a crossover.
Joyful Noise suing Dark Horse is as if someone copywrited the sentence, “What’s for Dinner?”
Disney is trying to copy other people's languages!
*copyrighted
You’re fired!
That you collaborated with Adam Neely makes me happy. That you played The Lick on bass to summon him makes me unreasonably happy.
thank you for showing the world on a fundamental level that nothing is safe anymore. i love how you have a smiley face as you deconstruct "freedom" on a legal level. please define freedom so no one makes another legal miss step.
I love that you learned the lick, I’m thoroughly impressed. Also, you guys nailed this; great video. I love how the plaintiff claimed the “pingy” synth sound was similar. That was the first thing that stood out for me as them being not even close to the same enough. The Flame riff (astinato) also is pretty much defined by the last note every other time. The way it goes out of the scale and the particular synth sound are really what make it, and that’s incredibly different than the Dark Horse sound and the way that riff resolves.
Haha I saw the beginning of the title and thought "damn I wish he would bring on Adam Neely for a sweet collab" and boom. My wish came true! Legends!
LegalEagle has become the king of the CZcams crossover.
I'm reminded of several court cases where Apple, Microsoft, and other major IT corporations attempted to copyright individual lines of code to prevent competitors from publishing competing products. Pretty sure they got shot down under the ruling that programming and code is a 'process' and processes cannot be copyrighted or patented. It would be like issuing a copyright on 'the wheel'.
"If you're writing a song you probably want it to be tonal."
Schoenberg: "Hold my semiquaver."
A pop song
Trained musician here. I’m so happy I knew the musical jargon this time since I usually need the legal jargon explained to me.
That said, there are tons of songs that sound like each other out there. It’s impossible to really create something unique that will also be popular. Our ears like what they like
Flame and KP owe Bach and Godzilla an apology. Specifically before Godzilla eats them.
I think it's more accurate to say "Our ears like what they're used to."
To my lay-person's ear the two ostinatoes don't even sound that similar. They look similar on paper, sure. If I were in a jury and the two notations were put up on a white board in front of me I could probably be convinced that they're very similar. But they sound completely different to me. Someone further up has made a point about one resolving to the dominant chord and one resolving to the tonic chord - terms I'd never heard but have since googled after reading said comment. That commentor makes a good point; it does seem to make a big difference.
Legal Eagle just became 12tone
The led zeppelin case was also bonkers, 4 bars, the song is 8 minutes long, stairway is ascending, spirit is descending, and similar music dates back to Bach and even the Renaissance, and they move in vastly different directions after that, the original guitar player didn't care and laughed about it when it was brought up, and he had 21 years or something yet did not file a lawsuit, but some trustee decided to sue in his stead after his death, the copyright had expired so he decided to republish the song, in other words greed.
It just occurred to me that LegalEagle, Adam Neely, and Tom Scott are the same channel in different fonts and I’m here for it
This case again shows what I think is a short coming with having a "jury of peer's". The peers for this case would have been musicians and other people trained in music, not ordinary people. Or even better, just have the judge decide, briefed by experts on the subject. But I'm sure in other cases, a jury has their advantages.
Ordinary people please...Copyright Law is not just about creators, it's about the users as well, and they need to be represented. You already have musicians and music experts represented, legal advocates and experts on each side, and the judge running the whole show. Whatever stereotype you have about "dumb juries," our American Legal System recognizes a certain "collective wisdom" of a group of ordinary people. "Jury of peers" in our system now means using demography, and sometimes education, in a statistical mix, which both opposing parties can weigh in on, and mutually agree upon (voir dire). I mean, if you had two NBA stars fighting each other in court, you wouldn't require the jury to be basketball players, would you? As Mr. Biden says: "C'mon Man."
@monokhem thats not entirely true, friend. after i got arrested for trespassing in, and stealing from, a federal research facility while trying to improve my cloning methods, i was able to convince the judge to allow the jury to be made up entirely of my clones.
i still lost, but yeah
Ordinary people are also your peers. Your peers include your fellow man as well as fellow people of your profession. It's BOTH.
Objection: You're not supposed to play bass with a plectrum.
If you do this, you could become the target of a slap-suit.
SLAP like now.
Let go of me ! I UNDERSTOOD THAT REFERENCE !
Bass-dad to the rescue
PLEASE do more videos on this topic! There have been a bunch of lawsuits in this vein of "musical copyright" and it is crazy how incredibly uniformed some of the lawyers and juries are! Some of them that I was reading about basically involved "expert witnesses" that were comparable to calling a surgeon in to discuss psychiatry. Decisions in this realm have far reaching consequences for musicians and the musical world, so we would love to see more exposure and legal analysis!
Made me laugh about Eminem trying to sue every ESL class or Vice Versa for Hi my name is ...
“Today we will be covering musical theory and copyright law.” I am well versed in one of those.
I'm so happy there's a LegalEagle x Adam Neely collab.
Axis of Awesome have a song "4 chords" which parodies numerous songs that use an identical 4 chord progression. It's almost like a no-copyright ostenato.
Speaking of copyright law: I would like to hear your opinion on the Harmony Gold lawsuit that held up production of certain products for 30 years and killed one of the biggest companies in the 1980's-1990's tabletop gaming industry.
I love this channel. It gently opened me to the idea of going to law school.
"Infiniti war is the most ambitious crossover in history"
Legal Eagle: "hold my beer"
I finally got the answer to a question that was consuming my mind for a long time!
Yes. He does wear pants.
"If for some reason you're staying at home"
I see what you did there
*Looks around cautiously*
...*plays the lick on guitar*
I love that you summoned him with "the lick" lol.
I don't.
@@Locutus typical
15:55 what a self-own, "Empty and spare texture of compositions" sounds like his own lawyer arguing in court that the banality and simplicity of his client's "composition" was a defining characteristic of the work xD
"No more Katy Perry references"
ME: Sustained.
Remember when this case first was decided, Adam Neely absolutely ripped it a new one.
I was like please bring in Adam Neely. Then I heard The Lick and I screamed. His video over this is pretty great. Thanks for covering this topic. Ever since Adam released his video I have been waiting for your side of it.
Nice Bass lick. I’m a musician and performing arts major in college aspiring to go to law school soon. This video was perfect for me. Two of my favorite youtubers combined. Thank you!!🔥🔥❤️
One of the best youtube mashups ive seen. More music stuff please, but I'm a music guy.
On the subject of music copyright, the saga of “Bittersweet Symphony” would probably make for a good video.
Also, missed opportunity by not including the clip of Mike Myers from Wayne’s World saying “No Stairway?! Denied!”
On the topic of Wayne's World:
He basically played his own version of the "Can I help you?" lick.
Yeah, and Stairway is more of a guitar store joke, given how it can drive the owners mad due to hearing it multiple times in a day, and for the sake of the joke.
Also, one of the most played songs ever, "Hotel California". APPARENTLY The Eagles were on tour with Jethro Tull (PRIOR to writing HC). JT had a song in their set called "We Used To Know". The Eagles would've heard that song every night for months. It bears a remarkable similarity with "Hotel California". However, when asked about it, Ian Anderson, singer, songwriter, leader and Flautist-on-one-leg of Jethro Tull said that given that there are only so many chords and so many ways of playing them, it is not surprising that sometimes, two songs will sound the same or similar. That's quite a generous reaction given how much money The Eagles made off the back of "Hotel California"!
Objection: the song is called, "Taurus." The band is called Spirit
He got it right the first time and wrong the second
You always collab with my fave creators...I love it!
And I love your sense of humor
I know not the same but still comparable. I wrote a story and while browsing the site the story was on, I found one with a concept I found interesting but while I was reading it...there was many lines of my text pasted into it. I had talked to the writer and ended up deciding to let them keep it but they did have to give credit to me about it.
I remember hearing about cases being overturned before, but I completely forgot about that possibility, and I'm so glad to hear it happened in this case!
I was literally thinking about this particular case a few days ago, and feeling upset about it; I'm so glad it was overturned.
“Wilhelm scream of jazz” had me DYING! It’s so TRUE! 😂😂
Lol. The moment he said, "Imagine if someone copied this drum beat"... an ad showed up with a music beat. The timing!