Engine not being cooled. Replacing the broken seacock while in the water.
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- So, this was an unexpected start to our 3-week sailing trip. Our seacock broke in the closed position and we noticed it on the morning we were to leave Kingston to circumnavigate Lake Ontario. Had we not noticed the problem the engine would have overheated and possibly seized, ruining our 2020 sailing season.
This episode shows you how to replace a seacock while your boat is loaded down to the max and sitting low in the water. Changing it ended up not being the hardest part. Finding the parts on the same day so we could still make it to Toronto for Canada Day was.
Thanks for documenting this. It gave me the confidence to plug up a very leaky/rotten ball-valve attached to my through-hole. Other than it's a real bear getting to the valve (like crawling through a cave), it went well. I was able to push in a bung into the hole that was left by rotting metal shearing off. I need to have a diver plug up the through-hole below the water line as an extra precaution. But when that is done, I will change out the ball-valve and re-apply PTFE paste.
Glad it was helpful
I would gladly change all my seacocks for fiber reinforced nylon (unfortunately, they are hard to come by down here). Corrosion is a b@#h and my eat up your skin fittings without you realizing it. It is much better to have a broken handle than a whole seacock, fitting and all, come loose in your hand (with a lot of water following). Glad your sorted it.
Yes. In a perfect world all the outside though hulls could be replaced. The previous owner had an expensive barrier sealant put on the boat so now the outside portion is sort of sealed in. They looked good when we inspect the bottom. Thankfully that is not something that broke. It was just the shut off valve portion. the through jull seemed to have a metal (Bronze?) threaded fitting that was still in good shape.
Nice work replacing the seacock. Very odd they would use a plastic one. I would sleep better knowing you now had a brass one in place over the other. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Beneteau and most European boat builders use brass. But it's bad practice. In saltwater, zinc is leached out of brass. What remains is weak and brittle. Bronze is the metal of choice. Plastic IMHO is the best choice because it is not subject to electrolysis and doesn't need to be bonded. All seacocks need to be exercised regularly.
Ya. We are in fresh water so we don't meed to worry about all that corrosion. So this brass replacement seems much better for our needs than more plastic.
Hello to you two from Trinidad and Tobago .Covid has been tough on yachting here in the Caribbean.
Ya. Covid had really been an issue everywhere. Perhaps by next summer things will be sort of back to normal. Best wishes to Stay Healthy.
Soo that plastic is probably glass reinforced nylon, and is approved for use as a through hull, they should meet the standards and comes with a collar to provide adequate load bearing etc, They also don’t suffer galvanic corrosion, be careful with the one you placed in there. Awesome video btw, looking forward to seeing the rest of the trip
Ok so here is a mind numbing-lay boring article on it, check out the good, bad and ugly headers www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazine/2014/april/whats-below-your-waterline.asp
Thanks. I am sure they use that Plastic to avoid salt water corrosion. We are in fresh so I think we feel safer with the sturdy brass or bronze. Plastic gets brittle with age. That is what happened to us. The handle snapped off in the closed position. Being exposed to our harsh cold dry winters on the hard probably speeds up how quickly plastic gets brittle too. We feel much better with what we put on. Felt really strong and will last longer than the boat will. :-)
Well done guys. Having just bought a brand new Beneteau 51.1 they recomended that all the seacocks are changed every 5 years. Prevention is better than cure, I would recommend you go through you boat and replace the rest to save any inconvenience in the future. Love the videos guys.
Thanks Darren. Good to know on the 5 year thing. We are in fresh water so it is far less harsh than salt water. If they put brass ones in I am sure they would last for Decades, especially in fresh water. They will tell you they put in plastic to prevent corrosion but lets be honest. They put in plastic to save money. ;-)
A whole load of boats have brass seacocks which get replaced every twenty years
Good bronze seacocks used to last the life of the boat. Brass is never a good idea as it made from Copper and zinc, the same stuff your anodes are made from . If at a marina with all the electrical leakage , the brass fitting will be eaten out in no time
Good work bro... It is always good to do a good pre-sailing checklist, so you will catch this kind of things before it give you issues, in this case you saved that engine, diesel engines cannot get overheat, then they are gone. cost is crazy to fix. Good to see you guys , see you one the next one. Be safe and enjoy.
Very true! A checklist is good. I did have a sort of checklist and I did change the oil before our trip and made sure all the fluids were good. I did make sure to open the seacock but I was not aware that the handle turned but the valve was still closed. So I guess we need add to go around to the outside and ensure the water is coming out before pulling away from the dock. Now that I know I have a good seacock if the water is not coming out then this time it could be the impeller. I checked it before we left and it looked good. Always good to have a replacement on board though.
Glad you made this video, as I’m sure the boat was the first concern. Interesting the water didn’t erupt like a geyser, looked to be 3-4 inches. This video covered one if the scariest situations fir me, but I’m happy to see the water can be easily stopped with the cork.
I once sailed from Holland Michigan to Buffalo NY with emergency wooden plug and..survived😊. It was apllied from outside though.
Thanks. I'm just glad we caught it before we left the dock. It could have been a very bad vacation had we fried our engine. By the time the warning light comes on saying your engine has an issue, it is probably too late. We could have sailed back but we would need our engine to work to get pulled into our slip in the harbour. Our main dock is Cement so you do not want to try and sail into you slip with no way to stop. That is a recipe for a huge disaster if you crash into the dock. Not forgiving at all like a wood dock might be. It was a windy crappy day when we left so finding some good samaritan in a power boat that just happens to be going by to tow us in might have been impossible to find.
You do what you have to in an emergency but trying to sail and bounce around with just a wooden cork stopping the water would have been stressful. Chances are Janice would have to sit inside watching it to make sure it doesn't pop out. Not fun. Glad we caught it in time.
The valve you got from hoke depot is not bronze and it will get eaten alive, very fast. I hope it works for you better than i would expect.
Great video. Just a few comments. You should get use to swapping items out by regularly removing the log(speed sensor) to clean it and to keep it running free. Lots a sea urchins and small critters will live in the voids of the log and stop it turning. These are usually plastic with a double "O" ring seal and a blank should be provided. Every material has it's advantages and disadvantages. Plastic is cheap and does not corrode but is mechanically. weak, brass ( and bronze) are zinc/copper alloys and dezinctification will cause them to fail eventually (5-10 years) and in a spectacular way! 316 stainless is preferred by some but lever and valves can seize and they are expensive. Reinforced nylon, for me, is best as it's surprisingly strong and does not corrode, expensive though. Checking all the through hulls and valves should be at the top of a pre-sail check list. I would not tap the wooden bung into any fitting - it could split. They are for an emergency only and should not be left unattended. There's a video of a sinking boat where a forgotten bung popped out! Beneteau may not be the best built boat, but there's an awful lot of them out there..... Fair winds.
Thanks. Great advice Bob.
Good on ya mate, nice job on picking that up
Thanks 👍
Modern plastics are not to be under estimated: I've had brass ball valves crack too, and usually it's the fitting, not just the handle! My guess is they did this to prevent metal fittings from eating your fiberglass: even brass as soft as it is, is much harder than the fiberglass and will chew away at it with any motion.
Ya. Im sure in salt water there is an argument for going plastic. We are in fresh water so this sturdy brass or bronze one feels like the better way to go. It wont get brittle with age and it felt very thick and heavy so it would take many many years to break down. I am sure the boat will wear out before this shut off valve does. :-)
Strange comment as metal thruhull fittings are as common on modern boats as popcorn in movie theaters. The boat builder was most likely avoiding the extra work of providing a bonding system.
BRONZE, never brass, chaps, brass will be eaten by electrolysis. Some people use GRP, but please avoid brass, it will sink your boat. Happy sailing all😄
Well Done, good job, have fun.
Thank you, and we did.
Hey Craig you should look up wire clamps as an alternative to hose clamps (CZcams wire clamp). They're a fraction of the cost, a roll of Aircraft stainless steel safety wire costs around 15 bucks, they're a stronger more durable clamp, and no need to carry multiple sizes of clamps. You can make your own tool (there are tons of CZcams videos on how to make your own) or you can buy a clamptite tool. They're regularly used in the aviation industry on aircraft engines.
Thanks. I will consider looking into that if I need to install hose clamps in the future.
Last summer we were anchored and asleep at Pinhey’s Point in the Ottawa River when the plastic seacock on our knotmeter broke. Fortunately, Mike woke up when there were two feet of water in the cabin. The knotmeter was installed in 1988 when the boat was new. Sometimes knotmeter thru-hull seacocks break if the straps used to lift the boat out of the water hit the wheel and push it up. On our CS33 the straps cannot reach it due to the position of the keel. Anyway, even the new knotmeters use plastic sea cocks. So check them often. CS-33 Lotus.
louise branch Oh. That is scary. Now that I see how easy a seacock can break it makes me think I need to look closely at all the other ones to make sure they are not also about to break.
Cruising Off Duty We wish we had seen your excellent video before it happened.
@@louisebranch6140 The bilge pump didn't go auto? I'm not sure I'd be able to sleep again if that happened to me!
@6:50. You are soooo close to melting a wrench and maybe starting a fire. That crescent wrench is almost connecting the positive and negative posts on the battery.
Im right there. Not to worry.
Hi Greg, did you notice how close was the wrench to shortcircuit the battery at 7:30, that would have for sure scare the hell out of you... and then at 8:35 you put your face even closer to the terminals!!!, really scary. Glad everything worked ok!!!
Ah a little 12V zap would just give me the wake up I needed. The camera angle wasn't the greatest because Janice needed to stand beside me with the plugs and to hand me tools. It probably looked far closer than it really was and I would have to be a real bubble head to press my face right down into the battery and touch both the positive and negative at once with my big melon. If I did that, I'd deserve the Zap for being a spaz. ha ha
Nice save Craig. Saved probably $15k+ for a new motor..
Thanks and yes that would have been expensive and ruined our summer if we fried out engine. So glad I caught the lack of water sound. To be honest I get so use to things just working that you often think "Why would it not work this time? The engine started. No overheating on my gauges. Let's drop the dock lines and go". This was a lucky save. I will check for water coming out every time now.
That fitting you screwed on the valve - did you only tighten it hand tight ? I would have put a wrench on fhat! Also those plastic sea cocks are pretty common nowadays as they resist corrosion but the reason it seized up is from lack of exercising the valve handle which I believe you should do once a month or so. Great video and I'm jelous your in great weather instead of this Texas heat!
I used the plumbers tape and it is a plastic fitting so you cant over tighten them or they can strip. I gave it a 1/4 turn with a wrench just to make sure it was good and snug. And that is why I ran the engine and inspected close to make sure there was not even a drop leaking in. All good.
I’m an old fart and I enjoy the break/fix stuff more than the bikini sailors lol Thanks for posting this.
Glad to hear it. We have no Bikini shots on this channel. Ha Ha. Although the ones that do get a lot more views. ;-)
i used marlon seacocks for many years without a problem. you just have to work them at least every couple of weeks. i started using them when a brass one cracked
Ya. I am sure in salt water there is an argument for plastic to lesson the chances of corrosion. Luckily we are in fresh water so Brass or Bronze shut off valves feel much more sturdy and secure. No need to constantly work it to keep it from breaking as it wont get brittle with age.
The Raw water Strainer is that installed above or below the waterline?
Above the waterline.
Don't forget to tie that into your bonding system.
Metal through-hulls (bronze, etc.) need bonding to a grounding cathode to prevent electrolysis.
Marelon (reinforced nylon) is not conductive, so bonding wires aren't necessary.
what a missed oportunity to had a Sinking Off Duty episode
Ha Ha. Ya, youtube doesn't pay very much so unless I got 50 million views for the video it would be a painful loss. ha ha
Hi guys, so glad you got that fixed. Just so I understand, you didn’t have to change the through hull? Just the seacock attached to it? I never realised they were two different parts??
Thats right. The through hull had a metal fitting with threads so we just needed to unscrew and replace the shut off valve portion.
Good catch. There's another spare part you didn't know you didn't need 😄
Time to schedule replacing all of them. Good to see you guys.
The weather has been hot here in Central New York. Keep safe. 🤝🤝👍👍👍
Yes. Once we are out of the water we will have to go around and inspect and replace any old ones. B.O.A.T. ha ha
I'll add my "one more vote" for GRP seacocks - one less piece of metal to corrode where you can't see it! Use of GRP seacocks and ball-valves is very common and with regular maintenance/use, very few failures occur. That being said bronze is great too - for salt water conditions where galvanic corrosion is a concern - you should update/explain your unique situation of having the boat in fresh water - otherwise brass is definitely a No-No for salt water!
From that BoatUS article: "The requirement for corrosion resistance limits the range of materials from which seacocks and their related components may be made. Only bronze, DZR brass, glass-reinforced plastic and, in some cases, stainless steel may be used."
Yes we are on fresh water so corrosion is not really a big issue. I said Brass but I am not metal specialist. Perhaps the ones I bought were bronze? All I know is it is what the hardware store had for shutting off water on a 3/4" thread. The chandlery had some Brass or Bronze ones as well but the ones the had were often bent at and angle, which we did not need and like most things, if you buy something at a Marine Store it is often 3x the price of the same exact thing at a hardware or plumbing store. ;-)
@@Bowmans-Woods plus they aren't letting us in to the local Chandlery to actually browse, I can't fix plumbing without building it in the store first lol. For the great lakes these are the best fittings imho
Recommend you use a bronze valve in lieu of brass. Brass will go through dezincification in sea water.
For all I know it was Bronze. All I know is it is not plastic. We are in fresh water so we are not too concerned for corrosion or dezincification.
Is the through hull part still plastic? I'm assuming you will replace that part this fall/winter?
The threaded attachment that comes through the hull was Brass or Bronze and was threaded. Some sort of metal that did not look corroded so that looked good. We inspect the hull every off season when it is on the hard and the through hull fittings look good. For some reason (corrosion concern?) only the shut off valve was plastic. The builder may use (cheap) plastic saying that they do it for corrosion reasons but I think it is just cheaper. What the builder doesn't factor in is in Canada and the northern states the boat sits on the hard during a 5 month long cold and dry winter and makes anything plastic get very brittle. Hence why the handle broke with the valve in the closed position when I just moved it from. open to closed the day before after I changed the oil. So the handle worked to close it but then broke to open it. The handle appeared to be in the position that said the seacock was open so it was a lucky catch that I looked over the side and saw no water coming out of the exhaust. I will know to check that every time we start the engine now.
Cruising Off Duty looking over the side was literally the first thing they taught us in ASA101 (when starting the engine), then look at gauges. Luckily, all of our through-hulls (10 of them) are all brass and very heavy duty. Good episode though. We kinda like when other channels show there DIY stuff along with their fun stuff.
Definitely replace the plastic through hull fitting to brass...plastic to brass valve is no bueno!
The through hull fitting with the thread was brass or bronze. It what just the shutoff valve portion that was plastic that was attached to that metal thread that we needed to replace. If the whole thing including the fitting that needs to be attached from the outside was broken then we would have been screwed. We will certainly look at the through hull fittings again in the off season when the boat is out of the water but last off season we looked at them and they looked good. Plastic doesn't give you a warning that it is about to break.
great video as always..But youtube has stopped notifying me about your new videos, tried to contact them, but no luck.. maybe you can check it out on your end..
Thanks. Hmmm. That’s not good. Not sure there is anything I can do on my end. Perhaps turn off the bell notification and then turn it back on. It may reset things.
This really got me thinking, I am doing the same on my tanzer 26 but I'm already on the hard which makes it a bit easier. I bought a new ball valve from the local marine store but I can't get it to thread on. Its looking like the older boats only came with a thru-hull which is NPS and ball valves are NPT? Is there anything I can put on with out having to replace the thru-hull with a proper sea-cock? Honestly that is probably the safest thing to do regardless though.
Luckily the threaded metal through hull stem was still intact so we didn't have to replace that. Thank god. Not sure how you would ever do that with the boat in the water. Sorry I can't give you more advice.
Bronze is BEST
Ya, I am not metallurgist. I can never tell what is Brass vs Bronze. My boat is on fresh water so corrosion is less of an issue.
How long did the engine run without water flow? Maybe an impeller change video next :-0
A couple of minutes. Luckily we caught it quick and yes we did check the impeller after this. It was intact but Yes we will have to keep an eye on that and have the spare impeller ready to install. We watched the strainer as we motored along on our very long trip and it was full to the top and blasting water through so I think it was even more efficient now with the new seacock than the old one. Seems to have better water flow now.
Wait a minute,, didn't you look at the fittings in the store to see if that other end was correct.. I did the same thing last week oops. carry-on thin blue line..
When we bought the shut off valve the other valve and attachement was still attached to the boat keeping us afloat, so we couldn't say for sure. We assumed 3/4" and we were right but all the shut off valves came in 1 configuration. 3/4" to 3/4". There was no 3/4" to 1" option.
i noticed you didn't remove that battery. isn't that asking for trouble if salt water hits it? and you didn't say when you were going to be in sarnia :-( i was going to come down and say hi.
The area under the seacock had it own deep "sink" water catching area. The battery was not sitting in the water. Sarnia? If we ever said we were going to Sarnia we misspoke. We were going to St Catherines (near Niagara).
@@Bowmans-Woods this was i think back in june early july. oh well.
@@Bowmans-Woods found it :-) jul 1st ep., sailing to T.O., @0:17
Sorry. Wrong name.
OK, a lot of confused information here. Your illustration shows a seacock. What you have in your boat is a ball valve attached to a free standing through hull fitting. Because of that you were able to change out the ball valve in the water. Willing to bet Beneteau did not ship the boat with this equipment.
Yes. We did not need to replace the through hull fitting. Now that would be very hard to do in the water. I guarantee you that is Beneteau that put the plastic shut off valve. We bought the boat used and the previous guy barely used the boat. I am sure he did not change anything.
The plastic is not going to suffer corrosion from salt water the brass and galv ones will
Simon Jones True but with some thing that corrodes you can see that it probably needs replacing. With plastic it looks fine until it just breaks. There’s no warning. I’d prefer brass or some thing else like that that I can see it aging.
@@Bowmans-Woods I disagree: it's going to corrode on the inside where you can't see it, not on the outside where it's exposed to just air, assuming it's kept clean. Don't be lulled by that. You're trading one set of problems for another. The set of problems you choose is your choice of course, each having their own benefits, but from your comments here, I worry that you are acting out of bias against old plastics, while forgetting that you went with a modern plastic boat instead of a steel or aluminum boat specifically because of the benefits of modern glass reinforced plastic.
Our harsh cold dry winters are hard on plastic. It get brittle way faster than brass or bronze is going to rust through. Plastic gets dried out and breaks here. We can agree to disagree on what is best for us here in the husky north on fresh water.
This article makes me think “plastic” is a better choice than anything from a hardware store that isn’t specifically designed for salt water applications.
www.boatus.com/seaworthy/magazine/2014/april/whats-below-your-waterline.asp
“Glass-reinforced nylon represents a viable and reliable alternative to bronze seacocks and thru-hull fittings. Marelon, a proprietary glass fiber-reinforced polymer that's used by Forespar Products, the most popular manufacturer of non-metallic seacocks and seawater fittings is equal to and in some ways exceeds the reliability and durability of bronze. Marelon's chief attribute is its resistance to corrosion. Being nonmetallic, it is entirely immune to both galvanic and stray-current corrosion, as well as lightning-induced discharge issues. Other plastics such as PVC, nonreinforced nylon, acetyl and polypropylene should not be used in seacock or raw-water applications. All lack the necessary tensile strength and flexural modulus of Marelon.”
But we are not in salt water. Problem avoided. ha ha
NEVER BRASS!: While your resourcefulness is appreciated, as a sailboat owner who has had to replace a 50-year-old seacock and thru-hull fitting while in the water, you provided some very BAD advice. NEVER, I repeat NEVER, use BRASS in a seawater fitting. It is quickly subjected to a process of "DeZincification" where galvanic corrosion will cause the zinc to leach out of the brass, with catastrophic results. (see Brass, Bronze and Plastic Fittings | West Marine, or 'Nightmare' of seacock safety - Yachting Monthly.
Ensure you use only Bronze fittings.
Also, as a safety feature, laying across live batteries while emersed in water with metal tools that could create a jolt of battery power through you is very unwise. The battery cables should have been disconnected before attempting this job. Respectfully submitted -- Safety First!
We are on a freshwater lake. This fitting is designed to be used in water so fresh water will fine. Need not panic.
@@Bowmans-Woods And suppose you sell the boat, and the new owner takes it into the Gulf of Saint Lawrence? Or Nova Scotia? Or like my Canadian built Bayfield 32, it ends up in Southern Florida where heat and salt will be a deadly combination for galvanic action, and the fitting fails and the boat sinks or someone, God-forbid dies? Who's culpable? Are you going to disclose the known violation of boat safety. Or will you just pass the structural weakness along to the next poor sucker, hoping he or she doesn't know any better? Does your conscience allow this? As I write this, I'm replacing a thru-hull fitting, and EVERTHING is Bronze -- I will be selling the boat in another couple of years and I would never want to pass along a bogus fitting to the new owner.