History of Japanese TCGs #9: Mon Colle's Death & Rebirth
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- čas přidán 28. 02. 2020
- Reflecting on the game and its spinoff Mon Colle Knights, we wrap up this chapter by looking at how Monster Collection influenced many of Japan's subsequent Trading Card Games.
(Note: These two Monster Collection videos were originally recorded in October 2019, but postproduction was delayed four months for life reasons.) - Hry
Side-Note: These traumatic experiences with Pokemon and Mon Colle say a lot about why Japanese TCG companies are so hesitant to incorporate Set Rotation. It outright killed this game and, based on your earlier video, Pokemon introducing set rotation was so damaging to the brand that it heavily contributed to the death of Pokemania in Japan.
Very interesting stuff.
For all of Yugioh's problems, the banlist system is pretty great. It effectively acts as set rotation, but it technically ISN'T set rotation. I don't think Konami uses the system as well as they could, but it's much better than set rotation. I would consider getting back into the Pokemon TCG if set rotation wasn't an issue.
@@nsiderultimaseth The banlist was great until the period where Konami basically used is as a soft set-rotation (i.e. ban the old good cards/archetypes but leave the new good cards/archetypes untouched and even bring cards off the list that support the new good cards/archetypes).
In an ideal world, though, I agree. Yugioh's way of doing things would be best. Set Rotation is a miserable mechanic and I don't know how MTG/Pokemon people put up with it.
@@superilikeeggsyo Most banlists in the past few years have been good at mostly just addressing problem cards, and the only major set rotation at the start of 2020 was largely in response to people having grown tired of a stagnant meta during TOSS format, and it's farther reaching decisions had a handful undone over time.
It's surprising that Vanguard has managed to survive at all with 2 rotations now, both within 3 years. It's probably due to them trying to keep 3 formats alive at once rather than making any old cards obsolete, but time will tell whether this decision is sustainable.
@@-Cetus- Whether people are "putting up" with CFV's set rotation is dubious at best. There's a reason that the niche card game market is getting absolutely flooded with new physical card games (WIXOSS global release, Digimon, Build Divide, probably 75 other new games in Japan that I've never heard of) after basically 10 years of Bushi games being the only viable non-big-3 game. From word of mouth things are going okay in Japan, but there's no hard data backing anything up yet and I haven't heard anything spectacular about the state of CFV in the rest of the world, mostly community infighting about which format is better, whining about the anime, etc.
Dude, these videos are so good. Found your channel via the new Digimon Card Game videos, and stayed up way too late digging into this series. I was just in Japan for the first time a couple of months ago, and was astounded at the sheer amount of TCGs available (as well as the amount of card shops), almost none of which I'd heard of. The detail and context provided here on the industry's history is exactly what I was hoping to find. Here's hoping you continue the series and that it reaches even more eyes!
The rules explanation is detailed, but something about the order you revealed the information makes it exciting. Fantastic video.
These videos are too good to be under 10,000 views! Hopefully Jwittz mentioning Monster Collection in his newest Yugioh vid brings people here. So much good info!
I'm surprised they didn't try to reboot/reimagine Mon Colle into a Gacha game for phones. It would help simplify the mechanics if there was any confusion. I (like most I imagine) didn't even know it had a card game as my only exposure was the dubbed anime. Also for whatever reason they decided to pronounce "Colle" with a long E sound (like in bee) for some reason in the English dub instead of like "Collection". Seems like a bit of a shame that it has effectively died.
Such sad, melancholic music during the last segment. It's interesting to think about what TCGs might look like today if Monster Collection didn't go and take so many L's in its life.
This is an interesting educational series. As someone who played TCG's in the west, it's enlightening to see the exact "why" I guess. The moves the companies made that baffled me back then. Seeing the Japanese perspective on things.
Realizing ohhhhh that's why duelist kingdom was so odd and wow, not only did mon coli knights come from somthing but that game was a highly influential game of the industry.
I have subscribed and I may even pick up the deus thing just to try.
Might try googling for the monster collection manga.
Cant wait for when you cover Duel Master.
This series is super interesting and extremely informative. The viewership should be much higher. I really hope it continues.
I'm interested in this game.
Thank you for helping solve the damn mystery with the anime that kinda just camped out in the back of my mind. I always thought a TCG was planned but just died.
What an underrated channel :3
This is some really interesting history. I just want to ask if you're planning to continue with this and if so, what would be next?
The next chapter is on the Yu-Gi-Oh! OCG.
@@lost-worlds yes, please. will be looking forward to it.
I'd say the Renaissance age did touch TV animation, cartoons like Ren & Stimpy, Spongebob, Dexter's Lab and so on gave a huge boost to their networks and all existed in the 90's, long after the era of 80's toy commercials you'd see with He-Man or GI Joe.
This is a really good series.
Id love to see a video on some more tcgs, maybe we can get Yugioh next ;)
Not putting small size hiragana on a card is a good way to tell kids that this is not a kids game.
Where this TCG failed, things like Vanguard may be succeeding today.
Ever since I saw the Mon Colle Knights anime based on this game, I've always been bothered by the fact that there was a single episode (I think) that featured the game to some degree but I never saw the cards themselves in stores where I live, it's a real shame to know that after all that, the game now belongs to history and it didn't manage to survive the test of time and in any case the video you did about it was really good.
Never knew that there was a card game but the monster designs are interesting
Is there an English translation for this game lying around somewhere? The wiki had a card list but....its gone
Especially with the failure of the anime in the west (or, really, in general), I can't help but feel that trying to get a tcg to take off outside of Japan after 2000 or so is next to impossible. I remember trying to get into Force of Will around 2015 or 2016 but not playing more since no one else did. I hear it has set rotation too, so that might be why it's essentially unknown here
It would be easy to conclude that based on the early history, but the breakout success of Vanguard in 2012-2015 and the 2020 Digimon TCG (which is, despite everything, constantly sold out in the international edition) paints a different picture. Even Duel Masters could have been a success were it marketed correctly.
The life or death of these games hinges both on their balance (drawing players away from existing games) and marketing. (Drawing in people that have never touched a TCG before.) The latter aspect is why VG and Digimon worked--their player bases are primarily made up of people whose first actual TCG was that game.
With Vanguard in particular, the first season anime was a straight up tutorial not just got how to play, but how to go to a card shop and what to expect--and it worked brilliantly. Simulcasting it on CR and YT was brilliant. A new franchise with that approach could succeed in much the same way.
It was their choices for the anime that doomed them.
Had they made a straight forward fantasy anime, it would been more successful.
Id love to get the bushiroad stuff. Even the lcg version. You got a hook up?
Just found about the series and binge watched it as fast as I could! Really good stuff!
Is the Twitter account you mentioned still active?? I would love to see if the game thrived after all, seems like a really interesting onr
Deus is still around and finally got a second expansion in March 2020, but it didn't really thrive--the Twitter account has less than 500 followers as of today: twitter.com/moncolle_d
I found some sample cards, but does anyone know a full card database for the game? I kinda want to slap it into TTS or something.
U should make a vid on the capcom card games and the rise/fall of the Digimon Hyper Colosseum TCG.
4.50 i coulndt find it could you send the official site if you can or on another approach
Yeah when I was listening to the rules explaining in the last video, I lost track of what was being said.
I feel like you should do a video on Gundam War TCG, If possible?
6:05 is this even ALLOWED on youtube? holy moley
Looks gross 🤢
I love the series but why are episode 8 and 9 two different episodes? Episode 8 ends really abruptly.
The transition was originally supposed to be less abrupt, but back when episode 8 was first being produced my computer had a really disastrous hardware failure that required it to be completely replaced. I was able to jury-rig a setup that kept the old PC running long enough to migrate all the old data off so I could start episode 9 on a new one, but I also had to make a hard cut at that point so I could render the video first.
They were always planned to be separate episodes about ~15 minutes each (people rarely click on anything longer) but the circumstances made it hard to do a better transition between them.
What is the manga shown at 4:40? The original Duel Master?
That's "Destroy All Humankind. They Can't be Regenerated" an ongoing slice of life manga about being a Magic player in 90s Japan. It's loosely based on the author's experiences playing MTG as a teen.
4.14 what is the company called . peng gaia?
i couldn't hear it clearly
Pangaea
Can you link the music used in these set of videos as I am having a hard time finding it myself?
The tracks and artist homepages are listed in the closing credits of the video, here's direct links to their site downloads:
maou.audio/game_lastboss02/
maou.audio/game_lastboss01/
maou.audio/game_battle36/
fhouse.s17.xrea.com/midi/tkool.html
All of the Freedom House tracks are included in one zip, so it'll take a bit to locate the two battle tracks from there. These are also MIDI files (they were originally made for use with old versions of RPG Maker) so they might sound slightly different depending on what device you play them on.
Will you ever do duel masters
monster collection looks like it's a game that can have a real Second Wind if it was made purely digital
13:02 Monster in My pocket was out years before both just they did a poor job promoting it outside UK where it was created. It was a series that had a few marvel comics ,a Konami Nes game and a Pilot Cartoon that was never available in UK and looked nothing like the Toys. They did a poor job with the 2006 reboot making it only found at a certain retailer they is a few failed reboots the last we heard of the series was another reboot with a Animated series but that was in 2020.
The series was the reason Pocket Monsters was Changed to Pokemon Though. But it's more like SMT than pokemon in design.
I suspected the ACT/AUTO/CONT of Weiss and later games was based on something else, good to know where it comes from. You might be able to answer this, is Vanguard inspired by Bandai's One Piece? I ask because they share an importance on the central unit, the Captain/Vanguard and cards share a POW + DAM rating. I don't know if OP is unique like Bandai's Digital Monster Card Game and I think Naruto is unique?
So what's next in this series? I'd imagine YGO or DM, unless you're more interested in just covering games that had a rise and fall, not just a rise and maintaining top status.
The One Piece connection is possible, but as far as I'm aware the "line of descent" for Vanguard's power & critical mechanics is Duel Masters --> Dimension Zero --> Project Revolution --> Weiss Schwarz --> CFV, with the crit stat ultimately deriving from DM's Double/Triple Breaker and D0's "Smash" stat.
The next game covered is going to be Yu-Gi-Oh!, although I might put the videos out in waves since we're talking about a really well-documented 20+ year history.
great question. Also, naruto tcg had some great ideas.
What's the manga at around 4:37? I'm always down for more card game manga/anime/whatever
Destroy All of Humanity: It Can't be Regenerated/Subete no Jinrui wo Hakai suru. Sorera wa Saisei Dekinai. It's probably the best TCG manga this side of Wizard's Soul.
@@lost-worlds Thank you kindly.
@@lost-worlds Just plowed through it yesterday/today. 11/10 thanks for sharing.
@@superilikeeggsyo Now you can join the rest of us in the monthly suffering as we await the next issue of Comp Ace
Get a petition to put Mon colle knights anime reboot
We should get a mon colle knights reboot
Is the game english capable?
Can we see your collection
Really loving this series! I love the card art of Mon Colle, it reminds me of the Greed Island Arc in Hunter x Hunter.
This game looks fun, but where do I go to learn more about it?
There aren't good English resources for it. Almost all of the websites about Mon Colle are Japanese-only, which is what I used to create these videos, but even those are incomplete because of the game being deader than disco.
At least Deus got it's expansion, and going by the twitter account SNE is starting up tournaments.
Where can I buy some Mon Colle cards???
The game's dead and no longer available at retail, old cards are mostly found on Japanese auctions sites like aucfree and Yahoo Auctions. Back when Deus was up for preorder you could get it off CDJapan and 1999, but now I only see it on eBay. You could probably use a proxy shipping service like Tenso to get it, if you could find it on a Japanese online storefront.
@@lost-worlds I wants me a box or 2.
@@lost-worlds WOW 1 pack $257 Canadian on Amazon.
@@lost-worlds link to any groups? I'd like the 20th Anniversary set.
So if I'm not mistaken when you play mon colle your basically a Summoner like Kasche from the manga and Beginner from the kids anime I noticed from the Manga the 6 gates world is a Very Very dark place. It is not at all anything like the Fox Kids show. I am obsessed with 6 gates franchise and would like to bring it over here!!!! But the summoner aspect of it is even more interesting
Rare to see another fan of the manga.
If they'd have stuck with the tone from the manga, the anime would have been much better received.
@@Metaphysicist Absolutely the tone was nothing like the fictional kids show hardly felt like monster collection at all. I would really love to see them adapt the manga into a show I think it would really boost the popularity of the show
@@rari02
From what was said in this video essay.
The Manga reflects the tone of the original role playing game.
Since this while thing started as an RPG, maybe going back to that would breath some life into the franchise?
@@Metaphysicist There is a chance of it happening monster collection is so underrated just the entire lore and world of it all is absolutely amazing I've even contacted bushiroad who have the rights to it as of now to try to get am englsih release. Maybe an rpg as you stated a video game where you could play as a summoner and learn spells and contract monsters and travel through the 6 gates world would be amazing as well this franchise just has way too much to offer its the original monster summoning game and it wasn't originally made for children either the og cards contained alot of gore and nudity the 6 gated world is an extremely violent and dangerous place the complete opposite of the TV show
@@rari02
I'd love to see the original rpg released In English.
Any further adaption of "Monster Collection", a video game,manga, or anime would be likely be an...Isekai because few people make pure strain fantasy anymore.
Yugioh definitely can copy this mechanic and to think about it with how yugioh works konami can literally create an archetype based on grid using column.
6:02 id totally play that game
least horny weabo
Oooh, I know so many people who would disagree with that western animation point
The western animation scene in the 90s was actually quite a powerhouse, it's just that things were all converging in animation at once to the point that a golden age of TV animation can be regarded as a footnote. There was a large boom in creator-driven series and a boost in the accessibility of classic series on Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon, which both rapidly spread in popularity during that decade as channels threw out series like Animaniacs, Dexter's Lab, Spongebob, around this time (Plus or minus a few years.) Many cartoons from the 90s, and the creators involved with them, very much define western animation on TV to this day. You were also seeing the rise of adult animation, via shows like The Simpsons - Western Animation was hitting prime time in places.
Some specific examples: Genndy Tartakovsky (Dexter's Lab, Samurai Jack, moved on to be a defining animator in a lot of stuff until today) Bruce Timm (Defined the DC animated universe which led into the DC OVAs still popular,) and Craig Mckrakken (Powerpuff Girls and... A lot of other stuff) all first came to attention in this era, and each considered almost legends of western animation by it's followers
All in all, western animation in the 90s and early 2000s was a far cry from the "Toy Commercial" fare of the 80s. So, I'd say it's not so much showing a weakness of western animation of the era that it was struggling against Japanese animation, but rather something which shows the sheer power of the Anime Boom and it's success, if even great, well-produced, and beloved shows would struggle against it.
...However, it is absolutely true that Ripping Friends was bad and had no audience. I hear there were a lot of behind the scenes issues with that, despite a lot of high praise from it's earlier series, Ren and Stimpy
low budget illustrated radio lol describes most low budget animations around the globe
Will you ever do duel masters
yes, I'm just neck deep in the Yu-Gi-Oh videos right now