Marine Bilge Pump Troubleshooting and Repair
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2020
- This is a step by step workup of an automatic marine bilge pump failure. The diagnosis is proven before removing and replacing the bilge pump, and on the way we describe critical design elements of the system and how it all works.
This is an amateur presentation, made in good faith but without guarantees as to accuracy or safety. If you decide to accept the risk of DIY repair, be sure to read widely and never trust a single source of information for critical details. Any misadventure you encounter if you decide to accept the risk of DIY repair is your responsibility.
Music acknowledgements
“As I Figure - Latinesque” by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
“Take your time” by Dan Lebowitz.
"Dirt Rhodes" by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Source: incompetech.com/music/royalty-...
Artist: incompetech.com/
“Where am I” by Text me Records
“Backwoods BBQ” Chris Haugen
“Totally Looped” by Audionautix is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Artist: audionautix.com/ - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Your video was great it’s about time someone explains every detail of the electrical components in a Bilge pump
thank you very much
Thank you for taking us along with you, the the thought process involved in how the system works, and the subsequent diagnosis and repair.
May Yahshua bless you sir
You explain things very well which makes following along easy. I've never owned a boat so this is interesting to me.
The background music got me all "pumped up". Nice diagnostics!
Every season I seem to have to replace those Rule pumps on now two of what was three boats. The two in question are an 11 foot Whaler and the other is a 21-foot whaler. Last year I returned one of them to Rule, which I think is based in Beverly, MA; I am in Woods Hole on Cape Cod. When they work, every two and half minute they kick in; using the manual switch never appealed to me so I always seal the brown/white. In some ways the constant on/off is a reminder to me that it is in fact working and that if I had to rely on a switch, it is yet another inline loop to fail/need constant head scratching to source. But now I just purchased the 110gph version and even hooking it up the way I always have and immersing it in the shallow well in the stern, the sensor did NOT kick on, frustrating me as it was an out of the box purposing. I will say that when I called Rule the last time, they simply replaced it. Your video is very circumspect, and it is much appreciated to see SOMEONE diagnose, do a post-mortem and get the replacement to function. Back to it, and I hope it won't rain in the next few days... Thanks for the good work.
Thank you for this in depth autopsy. It really helps me to see the path you took through this diagnosis.
Excellent video, thanks for filming and sharing. It’s unfortunate that wire colours are all over the place from previous installation. Black (with fuse holders) as positive; yellow as positive (manual bilge switch). We all inherit mistakes from previous owners which is a real risk.
I love your modest manner and thorough diagnostics and clear explanations. Thanks very much for sharing. This and your Yanmar videos are helping me create a to-do checklist for my new gaff cutter. Cheers.
Thanks so much. My Rule Bilge pump also failed last year. I didn't go through all of the electrical checks that you had done, I just went ahead and replaced with a new pump (save version as the old one) and re wired it the same way and it worked. Really enjoy your YanMar Videos as my boat runs a Yanmar 2GM20F
Thanks for this new episode sir. Nice to see u again.
Excellent diagnostics. Loved the teardown too, complete dissection! Great repair.
Wow, there's a voice from the past, thanks for stopping by! I hope to see you posting more videos in the future!
Very helpful!
Thanks very much for your expertise
Great deep dive.
Hi mate. Agree with you diagnosis on the failure. Thinking about your restricted space in the bilge, perhaps a secondary diaphragm pump remote with a higher outlet and swan neck. Just as a backup. They can run dry for hours and do not need a strum box. Self priming too. So you could just have a hose end in that spare space. Glad your sorted now. Good problem solving, Great video.
Sail Safe mate. Ant, Cid & the pooch crew.
Good advice, thanks again for following along! Yes, I do also have a hand operated diaphragm pump if water rises too high, you can see the tip over my shoulder at 0:42 of the video. The pump lever is within reach from the helm. Unfortunately the tip doesn't rest at the very bottom of the bilge, so it would only be useful in a real emergency when water levels rise higher. I test it out every year to be sure it is working well, but fortunately have never needed to use it for real.
I more and more am seeing the use in getting a power probe.
Great thoughtful videos.
Re keel bolts. I thought torqing, sp?, had to be done on the hard also I wonder about galling if the nuts are not removed and antisiezed first?
Maybe a seperate video on that?
I use A smudge of marine grease mixed with 3IN1 oil myself on DC voltage motors. Just for better wear.& firction protection is all. Plus it keeps out moisture that way to longer.
Yeah I one for you. You lubercate those DC voltage motors to with 3 In 1 eletric motor oil when doing routine maintenance on your boats aswell as A helpful hint in the future to you. Just one to two little droplets will do ya. Remember less is more in situations like that also.
What is the name of the auto volt metre unit please.
Power Probe, there are several versions, definitely worthwhile for DC diagnostics on cars and boats. The PP2 is inexpensive and almost as good as higher functioning versions. They come with a long cable and you'll never be searching for a good ground, or wondering if the ground you are using is adequate. Definitely a time saver, though remember that voltmeters don't measure line resistance well, so a light bulb or test light offers complementary data.
I’ve read ribbed hose is not the best and since your replacing it, wld a smooth hose be better?
Also on my boat, my manual switch activates the pump and seems to work but then when I release it, the water flows back in the sump. What’s the fix? Thx.
When the pump stops, gravity will allow fluid to drain back from as far as the antisiphon loop. You can insert an antidrainback valve in the line between the pump and the antisiphon loop, which will reduce wasted energy from the pump and lower your normal fluid level in the bilge. Problem is, those valves can block off, and eventually they leak back, so I believe ABYC conventions don't recommend them. I have an antidrainback valve in mine, it seems to work fine. It has three flap leaves that allow free forward flow but fold together to stop reverse flow. Regarding the hose, mine seems to work fine, and it was thick walled enough that it won't collapse or tear. I just replaced what was installed by the manufacturer.
@@spelunkerd thx! ps your videos are great! Clear and concise 👌🏼
This week the automatic bilge pump I installed in this video failed again, just a couple of months beyond the 3 year warranty period. The presentation was similar but the diagnosis was very different, and I went through the effort to document and prove that diagnosis on an oscilloscope. This time I chose to switch over to a manual pump and I designed and built a little housing for a manual float switch. I feel the algorithm of turning on every 2 1/2 minutes was causing unnecessary mechanical wear, especially in the summer months when the bilge is dry and the pump gets less lubrication and cooling from surrounding water. That video was posted today, here. czcams.com/video/R4yL6taNgtY/video.html
I understood the motor had 5 volts, I saw the video again it was 5 poles . Regards i will try to fix my 360 tomorrow.
Doing a continuity of the bilge water and what it's supposed to be, and what it's not supposed to be.
That's a good question. There's a huge difference between the resistance in salt water compared to fresh water, and in a normal boat much of the bilge water is rainwater that has made its way into the bilge. Rainwater is less dangerous than salt water because it has less of a tendency toward galvanic reactions, but galvanic reactions depend on dissolved salts which have a way of contaminating the bilge too. It is noteworthy that the risk of electrocution drowning is much greater in fresh water marinas, where salt water can provide a safer ground path for stray AC current. If you use a multimeter to test resistance, both salt water and distilled water have high resistance, but more sensitive electronics designed for this can detect stray voltage. In the end it is wise to make every effort to insulate electronics, if only to prolong survival of those devices. This week I'm doing another bilge pump diagnostics video, and it covers completely different topics. Thanks for stopping by!
Never seen one with the brass fitting and reed valve before
Those are two excellent discussion points, and even today I wonder how long they'll last. As you probably know anti-reflux valves are frowned on in bilge pumps because they could obstruct flow, and brass could react with salt water, slowly oxidizing. Stainless might have been a better choice. I can say with the reed valve the water level is much lower in the bilge than it was when I had no valve in place, since there is a long length of tubing between the antisiphon valve and the pump, so salt water refluxes back each cycle. Then 3 minutes later the pump has to pump the water back up that distance. That means my keel bolts are not always completely submerged in salt water, corroding, meaning there are positives and negatives. So far I'm very happy with the valve, and I've kept it in, but others might remove it. Regarding the brass, I've kept it in, but each time I look at the pump I wonder if I'll have to swap it out. Thanks for watching!
@@spelunkerd I am mostly familiar with those check valves being used in a diaphragm pump to help prevent backflow. Does seem like with bilge pumps that it would reduce efficiency
@@spelunkerd definitely enjoyed watching this one man. I have subscribed to your channel and am looking forward to more great videos happy 2021 boating season to you
I really enjoy your videos. I wish you would do more of them. Before I comment, in fairness I need to inform you that my wife regularly accuses me of being anal-retentive when it comes to boats, aircraft, and automobiles. After 50 years of pointing this out, I have to concede she is probably correct, so please take my comments as observations and not criticism. In your video you mentioned that you first noticed a potential problem because of your boat’s performance and then noticing water when you went below. Bilge alarms are relatively inexpensive and could potentially help save your boat should you have a sudden rapid leak such as from a shaft seal or open petcock. You pointed out that the 5A fuse in the bilge pump panel was not blown. Seeing that the manufacturer did not label the fuses cap as 5A made me cringe. Every fuse or circuit breaker on a boat should be labeled. You mentioned one of the in-line fuses in the circuit was blown. I am curious about the amperage rating of the blown fuse and if you have you determined if the in-line fuses in that area are OEM.
Excellent points, thanks for contributing! All 5A, but why there are two fuses in line was strange. I didn't change it, wondering if it was protecting something else in the circuit I don't know about. As I go through this boat I am labeling fuses and lines. Love the suggestion to install a bilge alarm, I'll look into that. There is an alarm for the sail drive seal, but not elsewhere....
My bilge pump also failed. That's why I watch this video. Plan to take up that problem next. What new bilge pump would you recommend? I have a "Vindo 50" sailboat, 35 feet in length...
Gee, I don't know. The reason I chose the specific one for my boat was because I have limited room, almost nothing else fit. An automatic pump is expensive, and when it fails you need to replace the whole thing. Also you have to live with it turning on every three minutes for a couple of seconds. Better to choose one with two parts, a float switch and a pump, so you only replace the part that fails. There are a lot of factors but you need to match flow rates for the size of your boat. Generally most guys just replace what was there before, so the thought process is simplified. You need to diagnose what went wrong, the switch or the pump or the wiring (or rarely the fuse). Just approach it logically and the diagnosis should be clear.
Dave
@@spelunkerd Thanks Dave. Plan to take up the problem next weekend perhaps. My name is Gennady, I am from Ukraine, but now in New York...)
@@tomjoad1060 What a coincidence. My wife and I have invited a family of 5 Ukrainian refugees, with three small children, to live in our home. They have been with us for the past three weeks, here on Vancouver Island.
Nice to meet you, Gennady.
@@spelunkerd we left kiev in March this year. Then to Poland, then Norway. Now I live with my son and mom in New York. We bought the boat in Maine last year.
For the indicator light i would run a twin wire from the light straight to the motor terminals, if there is two live motor wires a couple of diodes would channel eather or both power to the light.
I suppose there may be a current detector unit available that outputs a voltage when the current is being used.
A bit like the beepers that you add to a cars traylor socket indicators to beep when they flash.
Its often a diode in the wire and it develops a voltage drop and an amplifier makes the 0.75v drop bigger to enable the beeper.
imagine something like that but driving a bulb.
Sorry brain in waffle mode.
The pump looks really weedy to me, i expected something a bit more meaty lol.
If a float switch is used i would add a relay so the contacts don't wear too fast.
Thanks for visiting! I didn't really explain that very well, the light returned to normal function when I discovered and replaced the second fuse. It lights when the manual toggle is flicked, shown just after 3:09, but does not stay lit all the time. A great suggestion above was add in an independent audible bilge water alarm, which I'll consider.
@@spelunkerd It's not your fault, i am a bit thick at times and follow the wrong path :-D
Your bilge pump is an impeller driven pump so there are no check valves
The new pump came with an optional rubber Y shaped check valve at the outlet, not shown in the video. I debated whether to leave it in or remove it, but presently it is in place. As you say, it is not intrinsic to the pump, and there was no check valve in the old pump. On the one hand, standard marine installations are said better NOT to have check valves, because they can plug off and reduce maximal flow. In this case, there is about three feet of water height to overcome to get beyond the antisiphon loop, which means that without the check valve ~700ml of water refluxes back into the bilge every three minutes, each time the pump shuts off. This increases the duty cycle of that little automatic pump. It means that without the check valve the natural water level in the small bilge is fairly high because of reflux when pump shuts off. I like the idea of the pump being surrounded and cooled by water, but the extra work (and battery drain) every three minutes is a down side. It seems to work fine with valve in place, and I like the very low bilge water level. I'd be interested in what others think about using it. There is no check valve in my emergency backup manual pump.