I have been doing music recording for about 20 something years now, and from what I've found out and it's no secret.... Every instrument, voice, bass, guitar, etc needs it own sonic space. If all the instruments in a band were all just in the middle, it would sound very mono even though it was recorded in stereo. I can go on an on about this practice, but you have to move instruments, voices, guitars, etc to the left and to the right, same thing with bass even though it's supposed to be mono as well, you can have stereo bass.
It's actually a really common technique to see mastering engineers grab an M/S EQ and roll off the low frequencies on the Side Channel. There's two reasons for this, one is that it makes bass heavy instruments in the center, like the kick drum, more pronounced and focused sounding, and it also reduces the likely-hood of any issues involved with cutting lacquers. Excessive low frequency information that's out of phase between the left and right channels can cause a stylus to dislodge itself from the groove.
A pair of small bookshelf speakers and a single mono subwoofer optimally placed can deliver excellent soundstage and bass performance where you won’t realize that all deeper bass is mono. The harmonics of deep bass coming from the bookshelf speakers will fool your brain to think that the deep bass also came from those small boxes even it came from the subwoofer.
@@dilbyjones For a high quality subwoofer, you won’t even be able to find it in the room by just listening. In one setup in my house I often ask visitors to guess where the bass is coming from and since my subwoofer for that setup is partly hidden, nobody has until now identified it as the source. Rather they go to my KEF LS50 Meta and claim they make the sub bass, even they are high pass filtered. A bad subwoofer can easily be located (due to harmonic distortion frequencies revealing it) while a good one is hard to locate.
Frequently hear The Los Angeles Philharmonic live at Disney Hall. Bass Strings are always left rear. Percussion is center/right rear. Horns are near the center rear. Woodwinds are center. Other Strings are left/middle/right front.
My understanding is similar to Razin's, below. From reading some old documents it seems vinyl bass was "mono" because it saved groove width due to the large modulations required for bass notes. Thanks!
Great question. I've been using mono bass because I can get the mix perfect this way, basically I "separate" out the bass so I can push the R+L channels independently.
Hi Paul, Woofers in design resemble a cumulative projectile. Generates a highly focused sound wave (which, if tried hard enough, can pierce tank armor) Polarized sound creates an echo that's very different from normal sound. Therefore, it is very difficult to determine the source of the sound. If you stand behind me and speak, I can easily determine where you are speaking from. But if you speak through a mouthpiece, it will be difficult for me to determine exactly where you are speaking from.
I noticed back in the 80s the electronic the music base did indeed change from one Chanel to the other quite a lot. I don’t think it’s as prevalent now but I do still hear the bass changing channels during a piece of music, hence hence I use two subwoofers because I do hear the bass changing channels as I said especially with 80s electronic music
Dear paul you are my sound teck hero thank you so much for your years of advice i have tryed all of your tips and tricks. A lot of my older speakers have a built in powered subwoofer which is not really powered also a real powered sub . Would you amp up the subwoofer from the stereo player witch i am doing from you examples or directly from the sub out on stereo systems or from the powered sub. Mono 1 sub or stereo four or more speakers with subwoofer. Thank you for any advice
I remember hearing some old jazz where the bass violin is plucked on one channel and a sax on the other, I think they were some of the first stereo recordings and in a way it kind of sounds very amateurish.
I think that for "perfect" sound you have a speaker for every instrument played and positioned where it was originally played at. Now you have a true 3d setup. Could use speakers tailored for that instruments sound reproduction. I would call it allchannel audio. I been working on this theory for sometime and have tons of other stuff that goes along with this concept to deliver absolute live sound from a music file.
wow......This is the kind of topic that arises many doubts about the Audio Environment. My understanding has been that when Stereo Audio reproduction was developed...the idea was to be able to address instruments play thru the right channel or the left channel in order to give you that perception of separation or placement within the soundstage illusion. Just like a live performance on which you can actually not only see the instruments but hear them. The same applies to the singers......So at this point I would say that on reality each channel on a 2-channel or multi-channel setup is actually a monophonic channel. The sound mixing engineer will define which instruments and or singer go thru each channel.....The whole thing is then a subjective recording setup and thats why a live recording sounds so different from a studio recording. How valid then is to talk about stereo vs mono? Is stereo actually a concept to separate instruments and/or singers on 2 mono channels called left and right? On the Subwoofer matter I believe it make sense to have left subs and right subs.......
There is a difference between a bass "instrument" which also reproduces higher frequencies which provide locational information and bass "low frequencies". Laws of physics show equal pressure at both ears with frequencies who's wavelength matches or exceeds the distance between the ears which I understand to be around 120-140hz depending on head size? With equal pressure are both ears, direction can not be determined.
Seems like there's a lot of confusion around "mono" vs "panned center" vs "monophonic", as well as mono in nightclubs for EDM for bass vs all frequencies vs mono for bass on vinyl. First point, Paul is correct in saying an instrument panned center in a stereo context is the same thing as mono. Instruments recorded in mono are placed using panning into a stereo mix, usually in a way that mirrors the original performance. Good points from people bringing vinyl into the equation. My understanding is that mastering for vinyl necessitates summing frequencies below a certain threshold (like 100H) to mono because otherwise the physical grooves in the vinyl get too big and separated for the stylus to pick it up. As bass is less directional to our aural perception this is not a big issue; but it is a limitation of vinyl. Someone said all instruments are monophonic, and a reply clarified that some instruments are polyphonic... These are distinct applications of the word 'monophonic'. Mono vs stereo in the context of audio playback is like Beatles recordings before the recent remixes (and the mono are still better IMO). This is monophonic vs stereophonic. Distinct from that pair, monophonic instruments can play only one note at a time. This is monophonic vs polyphonic. And to mix things up even more, instruments, whether monophonic or polyphonic, are often recorded in mono and then mixed into stereo. Lastly, mono in nightclubs... my understanding is nightclubs either play everything in mono - including the high frequencies - or they use arrays such that stereo sound is distributed evenly through the club. The bass isn't singled out here ... unless of course it's played on vinyl ;p
A spectrum of any instrument is not only low frequency or higher frequencies, human ears can not locate lower frequency, but it doesn’t mean human ears can not locate musical instruments which produces mostly lower frequencies. It’s just because they produce not only lower frequencies, but all the their spectrum.
There seems to be a whole lot of confusion over this subject so as a couple other colleagues I'll put on my professional recording and mixing engineer's hat here. So I'll use a simple example with a single instrument for this question. Sorry for the grammar, I'm latin and constantly learning. Recording something, whatever it is, requires one of many decisions, how many microphones or sources is it going to take up in your recording. It can be one or several microphones per instrument and also DI's just like Paul described in certain instruments if desired. Once all those microphones are recorded they have to be mixed into a nice song, and that is an exercise that can be as straight forward or as eclectic as the artist and producer decide. If the instrument was recorded with more than two mics, what is going to be done with those in the stereo field? Leave them both centered or spread them left and right? Now repeat this decision for all instruments used in a song. For example, if it's an a capella performance of just a booming low voice in a room is the microphone of the singer and the microphone of the room going to be dead center of the mix? Then yes that is a mono recording, mono bass and mono treble in layman's terms. If not, the moment something is panned to the left or right or the natural reverberation of the studio is captured in stereo with two microphones there is no monophonic bass or treble. Simple examples are: Pianos captured with two or more microphones: From a players perspective bass notes start in the left and trebles to the right and everything in between, so at some point there is going to be a cross over of "bass" notes in left and right depending on what is being played. Drums recorded with two or more microphones: From a Players perspective there might be a floor tom on the right of the kit and a kick on the center so there's "bass" on left and right Choirs: Same as Pianos, drums etc... The possibilities are endless, it's all in the mixing decisions. All frequencies are going to be in both channels in most modern stereo mixes and that's what makes them wonderful and immersive. Yes there's Mid/Side mastering, but that is used as a tool for tightening low end and high end, but not to completely constrain all bass to the center. Modern stereo mixing is optimally made on two full range near field, mid field and if posible large far field monitors, in some cases subwoofers are used to compensate frequencies near fields can't reproduce clearly, so all frequencies are mixed on a stereo spread, not just "highs". So if folks have subwoofers at home it's the same principle as in a studio, to compensate the inability of a certain pair of speakers to not reproduce low frequencies, or just to enhance that bass and have a good booming time. More subs, more boom or stereo boom in HiFi setups Of course lots more nuance in between this comment and the real world recording process but that is a small explanation into the subject. that's my time folks.
Somewhat misleading title, monophonic bass usually refers synthesizers. Polyphonic, duophonic, paraphonic, monophonic, ect... It's a shame we don't hear much, or get much discussion about that giant modular sitting behind Paul in some videos.
Although we are less perceptual to identify from where bass derives, we are not oblivious to its location. If your stereo does not reveal the texture of the bass, or if the recording sucks and does not have the quality of well defined bass, then the bass ends up sounding like a lot of low frequency rumbling. A stereo that can shake the walls, but cannot reveal the nuances of bass notes, is not a quality stereo. It might be fun to listen to it. But it is what it is. A quality stereo that has great imaging will benefit from producing bass notes, based on from where the artist played those bass notes (or how the studio tinkered with moving it around). There are many songs that have bass directed from a specific location, making it necessary for each speaker to work independently at producing bass notes. I would not be happy with a stereo that mushed the bass together to come from no distinct location. The reason why it is popular to have a single subwoofer for bass is because the vast majority of songs are not well recorded, and they do not have bass content that is well defined, and regardless of the stereo, will always sound like indistinct rumblings. Also, most people go for the power of the bass notes, not being aware of the pleasure of having precision bass notes. The former is far easier to achieve. So for the most part, you can get away with bass coming from wherever. But on better stereos, playing songs that are well recorded, you can identify the location of the bass. Once you hear it done right, you will not want to undo it.
its a linear slope.. the lower you go the less the stereo imaging is important.. remember anything thats not in both channels and at same level is concidered to lower the spl..and dynamics.. and theres no certain spot..again its linear slope. the higher the bass the more important it is to be in stereo.the lower it is the more the mix should be gradually slid to mono..
Tip #1; if you want a superior quality and the most powerful bass, you should use a huge 4th order bandpass enclosure made of LDF particles board and install a passive radiator in it.
IMHO even though there is a single source, there are lots of room reflections that will be captured in stereo making the stereo reproduction more natural than the mono playback
Every recording engineer uses an extra mic for the bass, the pickup sound is never enough, they all sound steril, mostly because you record the pickup with a DI directly in the console. I don't think you really answered the question, sorry.
@3:45 "...and then we can take that whole mass and take it over to the right, over to the left, or in the center. Those are some of the things we do, to try and give some life and breathing room bass notes." Paul, you have access to the initial capture tapes (or DSD files). Have you listened to the initial captured recordings and compared them to what the post recording processing "take that whole mass and take over to the right..."? Does that bass guitar still have the same realism after you process it through some mixer that moves it around? I am not asking whether or not that bass guitar still sounds great. I am asking if it has the same quality as it originally had. I do not understand why the mixing engineer needs to "take that whole mass and take it over to the right..."? If that instrument sounds best on the right (or the left, or center), then why was the artist not standing there when the recording was made? Why does post recording processing need "@3:52 ...and try and give some life and breathing room..." Does not the initial capture have the most life and breathing room possible? Is not any additional processing going to pollute the otherwise pristine sound of the initial capture?
It is all illusion. The reality is one thing and any reproduction is flawed or faked. Once you get this and accept the suspension of disbelief you will be happier with those flawed recordings
@@zeusapollo8688 I do not accept shoddy workmanship. I do not thrown in the towel, and accept what is shoveled in my direction. I do expect that no recordings will be free of flaws. I also expect that those flaws will be kept to a minimum, and that there should be no unforced errors.
I may be able to shed some light on this for you. I think it's worth highlighting that a piano can play a monophonic melody but can also play polyphonic chords. Same for guitar. Here the issue is stereo or mono channels. A guitar indeed has a single mono output however that almost always would feed into guitar pedals that a lot of time have stereo effects on them. In EDM and specifically regarding bass, new engineers and producers get dazzled by stereo effects on the source however when replayed through a huge PA those effects tend to harm the low end - indeed a lot of club systems are in mono and so a great mono image is desired. Pianos often have two or more mics on them with mic 1 dealing with the lows, mic 2 with the highs and pan them left and right respectively for a lovely stereo image. Of course, I could have misunderstood your question and if so, my apologies.
@@soundproductionandadvice ahhh ok, I was referring to the fact that each instrument is monophonic in the sence that it is a single unit of sound somewhere in the soundstage, that's all, including the bass. Not that certain instruments can play more than one note at a time, keys guitar etc. Bass eminates from a certain position on a stage, just like all other instruments. I did understand and enjoyed your explanation though, thanks 👍
@Douglas Blake yes, which I thought odd, I used to direct inject the bass guitar on a single channel mono and pan it centre, nice and easy like the kick drum or vocal, but i take your point in doing it that way
The word monophonic wasn't used in the original question, I know as I'm the one who asked the question. 😂 I was simply curious about how they reasoned when they record and mix in the studio, from a 'audiophile perspective'. Just like he brought up, some tones are high in frequency and can be an important part of creating the illusion of the instrument in space, but at the same time the lower frequencies requires for instance more cone movement and that can (at least theoretically) impact sound quality so it sort of makes sense to spread out that between the woofers. I was just curious how they sort of reasoned around this, one of those late nights sitting up and listening to music. 🤷♂️😂
@Douglas Blake I'm aware of that curve. 🙂 I was interested in what someone that's both producer of records and speakers/amplifiers with audiophiles in mind, has in mind. Paul is in a slightly unique position. 🙂
The more dynamic and detailed the recording, the lower the output volume will be. Lower quality recordings (compressed audio), will create a louder output... but the sound will be lacking depth and detail (flat as cardboard). Get a stronger Amp, and better headphones to enjoy it with.
@@johndough8115 I understand what you write. For those who use earphones, this is not good. A lot of dynamics make the sound high occasionally and it is not good for ears! When the advertisement comes, the sound gets high. On a speaker, dynamics are a good thing.
@@ford1546 There is no solution for the Advertisements... other than to threaten the companies with Lawsuits. Ive did this. When watching one of the Superman movies... it was so loud, that it was painful. I wrote an email to the theatre, complaining about it. They said they would fix the problem, and gave me free tickets. Then... I watched Lord of the Rings, at the same Theatre. The screeching was ear bleeding.. and completely ruined the movie for me. I wrote a 2nd email... but this time, I threatened Legal Action against them. I suggested that one of the main problems, was that IF a HUMAN was determining the volume levels... that their poor and worsening hearing... would make them turn the volume up way too loud. That instead of using humans to determine volume levels... that they should be using a special device to measure safe volume levels. Eventually, I returned to that theatre, and things were at a good and safe level. And from what I heard... was that there was technology being used in the Theatre industry, to keep things safe. Whether or not that was because of me... I will never know. All I do know, is that when someome mentions Legal actions... these companies tend to make quick changes... to avoid the very possibility, of such a thing. As for using cheap Ear buds... or cheap headphones... that is kind of your own personal issue. Low-Range earbuds, lack the bass and treble... and are very high in Mid-Range frequencies. Midrange, is the loudest and more damaging spectrum of sound frequencies... which is why they use it for Ambulance Sirens. Getting a superior Audiophile grade headphone, will greatly help reduce hearing damage potentials, like this. I highly recommend Sennheiser's audiophile line... starting at model 500 or above. They are comfy (Ive worn them over 15hrs, without any discomfort) ...durable (one pair lasted me 13yrs before I managed to snap the band). Have easily replaceable cords and ear-pads. And have far superior audio quality and 3d soundstage. I partially agree that a simple video about speakers, does not have to be recorded with the highest level of dynamics. But that said... I do NOT agree with the advertising industries practices... which are the REAL problem. Furthermore... I dont want all of the music and audio on youtube, and CDs, to be compressed to hell. All of this compression, needs to be removed, Period.
I have been doing music recording for about 20 something years now, and from what I've found out and it's no secret.... Every instrument, voice, bass, guitar, etc needs it own sonic space. If all the instruments in a band were all just in the middle, it would sound very mono even though it was recorded in stereo. I can go on an on about this practice, but you have to move instruments, voices, guitars, etc to the left and to the right, same thing with bass even though it's supposed to be mono as well, you can have stereo bass.
It's actually a really common technique to see mastering engineers grab an M/S EQ and roll off the low frequencies on the Side Channel. There's two reasons for this, one is that it makes bass heavy instruments in the center, like the kick drum, more pronounced and focused sounding, and it also reduces the likely-hood of any issues involved with cutting lacquers. Excessive low frequency information that's out of phase between the left and right channels can cause a stylus to dislodge itself from the groove.
A pair of small bookshelf speakers and a single mono subwoofer optimally placed can deliver excellent soundstage and bass performance where you won’t realize that all deeper bass is mono. The harmonics of deep bass coming from the bookshelf speakers will fool your brain to think that the deep bass also came from those small boxes even it came from the subwoofer.
Especially if you play aphex twin on it
Exactly, it's almost impossible to tell the difference between mono & Stereo bass... ( to me )
@@dilbyjones For a high quality subwoofer, you won’t even be able to find it in the room by just listening. In one setup in my house I often ask visitors to guess where the bass is coming from and since my subwoofer for that setup is partly hidden, nobody has until now identified it as the source. Rather they go to my KEF LS50 Meta and claim they make the sub bass, even they are high pass filtered. A bad subwoofer can easily be located (due to harmonic distortion frequencies revealing it) while a good one is hard to locate.
@@dilbyjones have a listen to thriller Michael Jackson stereo sub, Quincy Jones did this.
Legend has it that in the older days mastering for vinyl necessitated mono bass frequencies allegedly for reasons of correct pick up tracking.
Frequently hear The Los Angeles Philharmonic live at Disney Hall. Bass Strings are always left rear. Percussion is center/right rear. Horns are near the center rear. Woodwinds are center. Other Strings are left/middle/right front.
My understanding is similar to Razin's, below. From reading some old documents it seems vinyl bass was "mono" because it saved groove width due to the large modulations required for bass notes. Thanks!
@Douglas Blake Yes! Thanks!
More truth that makes the idea of a "realistic" sound stage in the home a massive fantasy.
Great question. I've been using mono bass because I can get the mix perfect this way, basically I "separate" out the bass so I can push the R+L channels independently.
Hi Paul, Woofers in design resemble a cumulative projectile. Generates a highly focused sound wave (which, if tried hard enough, can pierce tank armor) Polarized sound creates an echo that's very different from normal sound. Therefore, it is very difficult to determine the source of the sound. If you stand behind me and speak, I can easily determine where you are speaking from. But if you speak through a mouthpiece, it will be difficult for me to determine exactly where you are speaking from.
I noticed back in the 80s the electronic the music base did indeed change from one Chanel to the other quite a lot. I don’t think it’s as prevalent now but I do still hear the bass changing channels during a piece of music, hence hence I use two subwoofers because I do hear the bass changing channels as I said especially with 80s electronic music
Dear paul you are my sound teck hero thank you so much for your years of advice i have tryed all of your tips and tricks. A lot of my older speakers have a built in powered subwoofer which is not really powered also a real powered sub . Would you amp up the subwoofer from the stereo player witch i am doing from you examples or directly from the sub out on stereo systems or from the powered sub. Mono 1 sub or stereo four or more speakers with subwoofer. Thank you for any advice
I remember hearing some old jazz where the bass violin is plucked on one channel and a sax on the other, I think they were some of the first stereo recordings and in a way it kind of sounds very amateurish.
The vocals can also be double tracked with one to the left and the other to the right ( See David Bowie "Space Oddity" )
I think that for "perfect" sound you have a speaker for every instrument played and positioned where it was originally played at. Now you have a true 3d setup. Could use speakers tailored for that instruments sound reproduction. I would call it allchannel audio. I been working on this theory for sometime and have tons of other stuff that goes along with this concept to deliver absolute live sound from a music file.
wow......This is the kind of topic that arises many doubts about the Audio Environment. My understanding has been that when Stereo Audio reproduction was developed...the idea was to be able to address instruments play thru the right channel or the left channel in order to give you that perception of separation or placement within the soundstage illusion. Just like a live performance on which you can actually not only see the instruments but hear them. The same applies to the singers......So at this point I would say that on reality each channel on a 2-channel or multi-channel setup is actually a monophonic channel. The sound mixing engineer will define which instruments and or singer go thru each channel.....The whole thing is then a subjective recording setup and thats why a live recording sounds so different from a studio recording. How valid then is to talk about stereo vs mono? Is stereo actually a concept to separate instruments and/or singers on 2 mono channels called left and right? On the Subwoofer matter I believe it make sense to have left subs and right subs.......
There is a difference between a bass "instrument" which also reproduces higher frequencies which provide locational information and bass "low frequencies". Laws of physics show equal pressure at both ears with frequencies who's wavelength matches or exceeds the distance between the ears which I understand to be around 120-140hz depending on head size? With equal pressure are both ears, direction can not be determined.
Seems like there's a lot of confusion around "mono" vs "panned center" vs "monophonic", as well as mono in nightclubs for EDM for bass vs all frequencies vs mono for bass on vinyl. First point, Paul is correct in saying an instrument panned center in a stereo context is the same thing as mono. Instruments recorded in mono are placed using panning into a stereo mix, usually in a way that mirrors the original performance.
Good points from people bringing vinyl into the equation. My understanding is that mastering for vinyl necessitates summing frequencies below a certain threshold (like 100H) to mono because otherwise the physical grooves in the vinyl get too big and separated for the stylus to pick it up. As bass is less directional to our aural perception this is not a big issue; but it is a limitation of vinyl.
Someone said all instruments are monophonic, and a reply clarified that some instruments are polyphonic... These are distinct applications of the word 'monophonic'. Mono vs stereo in the context of audio playback is like Beatles recordings before the recent remixes (and the mono are still better IMO). This is monophonic vs stereophonic. Distinct from that pair, monophonic instruments can play only one note at a time. This is monophonic vs polyphonic. And to mix things up even more, instruments, whether monophonic or polyphonic, are often recorded in mono and then mixed into stereo.
Lastly, mono in nightclubs... my understanding is nightclubs either play everything in mono - including the high frequencies - or they use arrays such that stereo sound is distributed evenly through the club. The bass isn't singled out here ... unless of course it's played on vinyl ;p
A nightclub that plays everything in mono is a stale club I don’t want to go to.
That's a lot of monophonic
There is 1 theory of music reproduction that is not compromised. Mine.
A spectrum of any instrument is not only low frequency or higher frequencies, human ears can not locate lower frequency, but it doesn’t mean human ears can not locate musical instruments which produces mostly lower frequencies. It’s just because they produce not only lower frequencies, but all the their spectrum.
There seems to be a whole lot of confusion over this subject so as a couple other colleagues I'll put on my professional recording and mixing engineer's hat here. So I'll use a simple example with a single instrument for this question. Sorry for the grammar, I'm latin and constantly learning.
Recording something, whatever it is, requires one of many decisions, how many microphones or sources is it going to take up in your recording. It can be one or several microphones per instrument and also DI's just like Paul described in certain instruments if desired.
Once all those microphones are recorded they have to be mixed into a nice song, and that is an exercise that can be as straight forward or as eclectic as the artist and producer decide.
If the instrument was recorded with more than two mics, what is going to be done with those in the stereo field? Leave them both centered or spread them left and right?
Now repeat this decision for all instruments used in a song.
For example, if it's an a capella performance of just a booming low voice in a room is the microphone of the singer and the microphone of the room going to be dead center of the mix? Then yes that is a mono recording, mono bass and mono treble in layman's terms.
If not, the moment something is panned to the left or right or the natural reverberation of the studio is captured in stereo with two microphones there is no monophonic bass or treble.
Simple examples are:
Pianos captured with two or more microphones: From a players perspective bass notes start in the left and trebles to the right and everything in between, so at some point there is going to be a cross over of "bass" notes in left and right depending on what is being played.
Drums recorded with two or more microphones: From a Players perspective there might be a floor tom on the right of the kit and a kick on the center so there's "bass" on left and right
Choirs: Same as Pianos, drums etc...
The possibilities are endless, it's all in the mixing decisions. All frequencies are going to be in both channels in most modern stereo mixes and that's what makes them wonderful and immersive. Yes there's Mid/Side mastering, but that is used as a tool for tightening low end and high end, but not to completely constrain all bass to the center.
Modern stereo mixing is optimally made on two full range near field, mid field and if posible large far field monitors, in some cases subwoofers are used to compensate frequencies near fields can't reproduce clearly, so all frequencies are mixed on a stereo spread, not just "highs".
So if folks have subwoofers at home it's the same principle as in a studio, to compensate the inability of a certain pair of speakers to not reproduce low frequencies, or just to enhance that bass and have a good booming time. More subs, more boom or stereo boom in HiFi setups
Of course lots more nuance in between this comment and the real world recording process but that is a small explanation into the subject. that's my time folks.
Somewhat misleading title, monophonic bass usually refers synthesizers. Polyphonic, duophonic, paraphonic, monophonic, ect... It's a shame we don't hear much, or get much discussion about that giant modular sitting behind Paul in some videos.
I won!
Although we are less perceptual to identify from where bass derives, we are not oblivious to its location.
If your stereo does not reveal the texture of the bass, or if the recording sucks and does not have the quality of well defined bass, then the bass ends up sounding like a lot of low frequency rumbling.
A stereo that can shake the walls, but cannot reveal the nuances of bass notes, is not a quality stereo. It might be fun to listen to it. But it is what it is.
A quality stereo that has great imaging will benefit from producing bass notes, based on from where the artist played those bass notes (or how the studio tinkered with moving it around).
There are many songs that have bass directed from a specific location, making it necessary for each speaker to work independently at producing bass notes.
I would not be happy with a stereo that mushed the bass together to come from no distinct location.
The reason why it is popular to have a single subwoofer for bass is because the vast majority of songs are not well recorded, and they do not have bass content that is well defined, and regardless of the stereo, will always sound like indistinct rumblings. Also, most people go for the power of the bass notes, not being aware of the pleasure of having precision bass notes. The former is far easier to achieve.
So for the most part, you can get away with bass coming from wherever.
But on better stereos, playing songs that are well recorded, you can identify the location of the bass. Once you hear it done right, you will not want to undo it.
its a linear slope.. the lower you go the less the stereo imaging is important.. remember anything thats not in both channels and at same level is concidered to lower the spl..and dynamics.. and theres no certain spot..again its linear slope. the higher the bass the more important it is to be in stereo.the lower it is the more the mix should be gradually slid to mono..
So you do tamper with the bass 😁
This is great but, I'm a little confused by the answer.
If I'm playing a mono record through a speaker and a sub, is it still mono?
Yes it's still mono. Just as playing mono through speakers that have internally separated woofers and tweeters is still mono.
The more seating positions the more subs in different locations unless you have single or dual bass array.
Tip #1; if you want a superior quality and the most powerful bass, you should use a huge 4th order bandpass enclosure made of LDF particles board and install a passive radiator in it.
What is the difference between mono and stereo on early Bob Dylan albums as it is only him singing with a guitar.
IMHO even though there is a single source, there are lots of room reflections that will be captured in stereo making the stereo reproduction more natural than the mono playback
@@user-od9iz9cv1w I see. Thanks.
The answer is that multiple subs are better for handling the issues with room modes.
Did you implement this in your own system?
Every recording engineer uses an extra mic for the bass, the pickup sound is never enough, they all sound steril, mostly because you record the pickup with a DI directly in the console. I don't think you really answered the question, sorry.
@3:45 "...and then we can take that whole mass and take it over to the right, over to the left, or in the center. Those are some of the things we do, to try and give some life and breathing room bass notes."
Paul, you have access to the initial capture tapes (or DSD files).
Have you listened to the initial captured recordings and compared them to what the post recording processing "take that whole mass and take over to the right..."?
Does that bass guitar still have the same realism after you process it through some mixer that moves it around?
I am not asking whether or not that bass guitar still sounds great. I am asking if it has the same quality as it originally had.
I do not understand why the mixing engineer needs to "take that whole mass and take it over to the right..."?
If that instrument sounds best on the right (or the left, or center), then why was the artist not standing there when the recording was made?
Why does post recording processing need "@3:52 ...and try and give some life and breathing room..."
Does not the initial capture have the most life and breathing room possible? Is not any additional processing going to pollute the otherwise pristine sound of the initial capture?
It is all illusion. The reality is one thing and any reproduction is flawed or faked.
Once you get this and accept the suspension of disbelief you will be happier with those flawed recordings
@@zeusapollo8688 I do not accept shoddy workmanship.
I do not thrown in the towel, and accept what is shoveled in my direction.
I do expect that no recordings will be free of flaws. I also expect that those flaws will be kept to a minimum, and that there should be no unforced errors.
Hi Paul, all instruments and voice are monophonic, why should bass be singled out? .. seems like a weird question
I may be able to shed some light on this for you. I think it's worth highlighting that a piano can play a monophonic melody but can also play polyphonic chords. Same for guitar. Here the issue is stereo or mono channels. A guitar indeed has a single mono output however that almost always would feed into guitar pedals that a lot of time have stereo effects on them. In EDM and specifically regarding bass, new engineers and producers get dazzled by stereo effects on the source however when replayed through a huge PA those effects tend to harm the low end - indeed a lot of club systems are in mono and so a great mono image is desired. Pianos often have two or more mics on them with mic 1 dealing with the lows, mic 2 with the highs and pan them left and right respectively for a lovely stereo image. Of course, I could have misunderstood your question and if so, my apologies.
@@soundproductionandadvice ahhh ok, I was referring to the fact that each instrument is monophonic in the sence that it is a single unit of sound somewhere in the soundstage, that's all, including the bass. Not that certain instruments can play more than one note at a time, keys guitar etc. Bass eminates from a certain position on a stage, just like all other instruments.
I did understand and enjoyed your explanation though, thanks 👍
@Douglas Blake yes, which I thought odd, I used to direct inject the bass guitar on a single channel mono and pan it centre, nice and easy like the kick drum or vocal, but i take your point in doing it that way
The word monophonic wasn't used in the original question, I know as I'm the one who asked the question. 😂
I was simply curious about how they reasoned when they record and mix in the studio, from a 'audiophile perspective'.
Just like he brought up, some tones are high in frequency and can be an important part of creating the illusion of the instrument in space, but at the same time the lower frequencies requires for instance more cone movement and that can (at least theoretically) impact sound quality so it sort of makes sense to spread out that between the woofers.
I was just curious how they sort of reasoned around this, one of those late nights sitting up and listening to music. 🤷♂️😂
@Douglas Blake I'm aware of that curve. 🙂
I was interested in what someone that's both producer of records and speakers/amplifiers with audiophiles in mind, has in mind.
Paul is in a slightly unique position. 🙂
Ok Sir
Paul you have the volume so low on the recording. you have to turn the volume up!
The more dynamic and detailed the recording, the lower the output volume will be. Lower quality recordings (compressed audio), will create a louder output... but the sound will be lacking depth and detail (flat as cardboard). Get a stronger Amp, and better headphones to enjoy it with.
@@johndough8115
I understand what you write.
For those who use earphones, this is not good. A lot of dynamics make the sound high occasionally and it is not good for ears! When the advertisement comes, the sound gets high.
On a speaker, dynamics are a good thing.
@@ford1546 There is no solution for the Advertisements... other than to threaten the companies with Lawsuits.
Ive did this. When watching one of the Superman movies... it was so loud, that it was painful. I wrote an email to the theatre, complaining about it. They said they would fix the problem, and gave me free tickets.
Then... I watched Lord of the Rings, at the same Theatre. The screeching was ear bleeding.. and completely ruined the movie for me. I wrote a 2nd email... but this time, I threatened Legal Action against them.
I suggested that one of the main problems, was that IF a HUMAN was determining the volume levels... that their poor and worsening hearing... would make them turn the volume up way too loud. That instead of using humans to determine volume levels... that they should be using a special device to measure safe volume levels.
Eventually, I returned to that theatre, and things were at a good and safe level. And from what I heard... was that there was technology being used in the Theatre industry, to keep things safe. Whether or not that was because of me... I will never know. All I do know, is that when someome mentions Legal actions... these companies tend to make quick changes... to avoid the very possibility, of such a thing.
As for using cheap Ear buds... or cheap headphones... that is kind of your own personal issue.
Low-Range earbuds, lack the bass and treble... and are very high in Mid-Range frequencies. Midrange, is the loudest and more damaging spectrum of sound frequencies... which is why they use it for Ambulance Sirens.
Getting a superior Audiophile grade headphone, will greatly help reduce hearing damage potentials, like this. I highly recommend Sennheiser's audiophile line... starting at model 500 or above. They are comfy (Ive worn them over 15hrs, without any discomfort) ...durable (one pair lasted me 13yrs before I managed to snap the band). Have easily replaceable cords and ear-pads. And have far superior audio quality and 3d soundstage.
I partially agree that a simple video about speakers, does not have to be recorded with the highest level of dynamics. But that said... I do NOT agree with the advertising industries practices... which are the REAL problem.
Furthermore... I dont want all of the music and audio on youtube, and CDs, to be compressed to hell. All of this compression, needs to be removed, Period.
first 👍 Hi Paul!
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