國外聲樂老師點評《數字人生》Vocal Coach Reaction to "Life of Numbers"
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2024
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*Performance videos and instrumentals may have been censored due to copyright concerns. Please visit our Bilibili for full-versions of the reaction: space.bilibili.com/7295246
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#reaction #vocalcoach #reactionvideo #georgelam #huxia #林子祥 #胡夏 #數字人生 #thetoys #bach #我们的歌 - Zábava
Rozette老師您好，這裡要先跟您說聲不好意思，作為土生土長的香港人，加上我本身是粵劇編劇及演員，廣東話的九聲真是非常重要，除了九聲還有韻母，不是不能從中找尋轉音的方法，就像您聽過Hacken Lee唱的“月半小夜曲”，當中也包含了不同字的轉音，但全都源於正確的九聲及韻母，每個字都包含“字首、字腹、字尾”，舉例說您說的“Rainbow”，可以是“Raaaaaaa~in~bow”，也可以是Raiiiiii~in~bow”，也可以是“Rain~bo~ow”，如此類推，但廣東話中有很多字是不能延伸的，如廣東話的“一”字，是入聲字，粵音拼音是“jat1”，用英文拼念作“Yut”，必需是高音並短促收尾音，否則就會成了另一個字，“一”字是九聲中的第七聲，九聲中只有一至六聲是可延伸，七至九聲收尾音必需短促。還有是這個“一”字屬於九聲中最高音的，所以不能放到低的音調，否則又會成了另一個字甚至不存在世上的字。
引用林子祥這首“數字人生”中一句，唱詞是“13942”，音是“fa mi re do si”，如果只唱成“1~942”，即“1”字要唱“fa mi”兩個音，就有機會變成了一個不存在的字。又或是旋律不變，只更改唱詞的數字，假設把“13942”調動成“93421”，那麼“9”字就會唱成不雅的粗口字，“4”字就會唱成廣東話中的“死”字，“2”字又變了另一些字而不再是“2”字，“1”字亦會唱成了廣東話中的“日”字。還好這首是數字歌，歌詞沒甚意思，但如果換成有意思的廣東話歌詞，就可能會被弄到不倫不類，詞不成詞，句不成句，甚至唱出了一堆“粗口”來。
例如“數字人生”這四個字如果要唱出來，可以是“do la so re”，或“so mi do la”，基本旋律要符合“中高 中 低 高”這起伏，否則就完全不是“數字人生”這四個字，例如改成“ la so mi do”，那“數”唱成了“騷”或“鬚”或另外同聲韻的字，“字”會唱成“支”或“知”或另外同聲韻的字，“人”會唱成“孕”或“刃”或另外同聲韻的字，“生”則唱成不存在世上的字。這樣“數字人生”就變成“騷支孕X”。
如果踫著一些旋律令字唱成了粗口，那就真真不堪入耳了。
如Jay說到的“塑料粵語歌曲”(約在9分鐘03秒左右有插播了一少段)，這類歌曲除了詞不成詞/句不成句之外，更經常出現不雅的“粗口”字發音，但歌者自己不知(因為他不懂廣東話的九聲)而樂在其中，不懂廣東話的聽眾甚至會大讚寫得好唱得好，但事實是極度極度尷尬甚至嘔心。
廣東話填詞真的是很難很難，這也是沒辦法，但作為母語，我們也必須堅守這語言，希望盡量不讓它變質甚至消失。
再次向Rozette老師說聲不好意思🙏🏻，我的話說得太多，但也希望您能明白和諒解！🤗
Thank you for sharing. You are very knowledgeable. 🙏
@@ClubZeroMedia The tones of Cantonese always give people a punchy and bouncing feeling. Especially this song was arranged in a rock/pop style, lacking riff is reasonable although it may not match the classical melody. Additionally George Lam is a Rock Singer with a metallic voice of sort making the outcome of the language more hard and sharp in texture. It is glad to hear different understanding from non Cantonese speaking people and your point of view does get me into thinking of whether Cantonese language singing could perform techniques like riff. Please do check out Hins Cheung’s 騷靈情歌 and more other songs from Hins, he could be the one of your taste. Again big shout out for reacting George Lam, the legend, hope you could have more George Lam to react on. Thanks alot, love you and keep going🎉🎉🎉
Best explanation I could find in the comments
@@ClubZeroMedia 不用客氣，也很謝謝您的影片，我學到很多唱歌知識和技巧🤗
@@flyonground 多謝你😉
这一期太有趣了。真的是说到我心坎了……粤语发音比国语复杂多了，有自己的音调，所以粤语歌作曲必须要和歌词的音调协调。粤语歌作曲比其他语言都难多了！这一期内容非常具有学术意义。
这个频道的真的非常深度，作为音乐爱好者很开心看到你们的探讨，特别是文化交流的部分。will keep following you, thanks
所以我們廣東人客易學國語，而相反來講比較難😂
不得了，這集笑爆咀😂😂😂😂
個配樂揀得好好，老師好cute❤
好想教老師唱：鵝滿是快烙滴好耳痛，鵝悶天天一戲個窗！
我也想起這首歌，好搞笑😂😂😂
我都好想睇老師唱呢句
老師學唱頭2句應該已經好崩潰🤪
@@leungrachel 應該學頭個2個字已經崩潰咗
粵語就係咁難，音調差啲，就係另一個字，點解成日講懶音懶音，就係咁啦！😂😂😂
I speak English, Chinese and Cantonese fluently and I totally agree with Jay...he is NOT messing with you!
As a Cantonese native speaker myself, what Jay said in the video was absolutely correct, the single word could have different meanings in different tones. For example, “Si”, if you pronounce it in slightly different tone, it could be 詩、史、試、時、市、事, every single character with a very distinctive meaning. So if you change the tone of the character to match the key/melody of the song, it would sound very off and weird.
Another example is that the English word “she” or “he”, no matter how you bend it, the word itself is still distinctive (at least I can’t think of any other word on top of my head). On the other hand, if you do the same to a Cantonese word, it would change the meaning of the word depending on the tone or how are you bending it.
Tltr: Jay is right🤣
Basically Cantonese songs are just made by how ever they speaks. Speaks out the Lyrics will not be a big difference than singing it.
Yesss, so basically if you are reading the cantonese lyrics, you can probably guess more than half of the melody since the tone is almost the same with the word
傑在影片中充當了很重要的角色,因為Rozette老師可能不太理解粵語,但是要我解釋我也不太會解釋,但大致上就是用ABCD唱出旋律但是A Aˊ Aˇ Aˋ A˙會改變A著個詞的意思,所以不能做太多聲調的變換,最多只能改變他的音調,但這樣聽起來也會怪怪的,會又聽起來像別的字,甚至拉長應後聽起來會像警報聲
普通话也有声调，为什么不受声调的限制呢，只是普通话的听着能接受在歌曲中的音调改变吗？好奇
As a Cantonese native speaker, who also speaks 4 other foreign languages with one Cantonese dialect, my ears can tell tons of pronunciation and tonal difference. Jay is correct here (even though his Cantonese has mandarin accent with incorrect tone, also HuXia the other singer mispronounced and butchered the Cantonese lyrics many times) about the very little room of manipulation of Cantonese for songs. That is why it is notoriously hard to write lyrics in Cantonese. Growing up, I was often confused why the gospel music in Cantonese sound so weird, because they just took the lyrics written in mandarin directly and sang them in Cantonese. mandarins only has 4 tones not even mentioned the pronunciations of characters are also different. Of course they sound weird and stupid. Canton pop only started to bloom in the late 80s early 90s, because how hard it is to write lyrics in Cantonese. Before that, Hong Kong people listened to singers and songs in mandarin mostly from Taiwan.
I wouldn’t say there is absolutely no way to riff the Cantonese lyrics, but the wiggle room is so small, you risk being the bad Cantonese lyrics writer. If that is the case, then why listen to Cantonese songs. Go back to just listen to English and mandarin songs.
Language teacher here.
Think of Cantonese as being a scale, like the major scale. When you play/sing the major scale (DO, RE, MI, FA, SOL, LA, SI, DO), no matter where you start, it sounds "the same".
Cantonese is the same thing. The only difference is that the major scale has 8 tones (or 7, since there are 2 DOs), while Cantonese has 6 tones/notes.
Every single one of us have our own starting note, but in the end we are each singing our own Cantonese scale with some of us maybe starting our lowest tone on, say, a B flat, while another person may start theirs on A sharp, and no, I am not speaking in metaphor; this is literally the case.
This is the Cantonese scale. Each word corresponds to one of these notes within the scale:
1 - High, 2 - low mid rising, 3 - mid, 4 - low mid falling, 5 - low rising, 6 low-mid
For example, let's take the word mom 媽 (maa1) (1 = high). If you use SOL to sing it, it fits, but if you sing it with RE, it would sound like 罵(maa6) (6 = Low-Mid) instead, which means to yell at.
Or the number four (sei3, mid). It fits with FA, but if you sing it with SOL and put a rift/bend in there, it might sound like 死 (death, sei2 - low mid rising).
This type of meaning changing doesn't happen in English.
So, if you put too much rifts/bends in there, it could turn it into non-sense. It's not impossible, but yes, it is much more limited.
Then on to the difficulty of this song!
If you are just doing la la la la then of course it's not difficult, but imagine you are singing this with English tongue twisters, having to enunciate all the sounds correctly, needing to constantly hit some really high notes accurately with your chest voice, not taking many breaths, yet your voice maintains this brightness and resonance!
I can understand why it doesn't sound "good" to everyone though. 😁
Prefect explanation in English, thx
I really like this explanation. I wish Rozette would read this.
用 詩、史、試、時、市、事、昔、錫、蝕可能會解釋到九聲😂
Btw Jay was already great and tried the best to explain it😂
As Hongkonger, thx for explaining and promoting Cantonese and Canton pop.
and Jay can explain the meaning of these words are so different. 詩is poem, 史 is history, 試 is try, 時 is time, 市is market, 事is things.
細個唔記得睇咩節目係用"真好笑牛上樹解釋六調
老師聽完呢9個字可能會癲左~~
I guess traditional Cantonese opera (粵劇）involve the use of vibrato and 轉音，but pop Cantonese song does not
@@sylviafung4671 的確，粵劇多好多轉音
文化差異碰撞出來的討論空間，很有趣😊
Coach, he's not messing with you he's right seriously!
what about cantonese opera yue ju, 粤剧😊maybe cantonese Opera doesn’t speak cantonese.😊
@@user-xili would be interesting to see 粤曲 reaction
@@user-xili listen to the lyrics of yue ju carefully then I found those note the vocalist / performer play with at the end of each phrase, those are not a recognizable cantonese words anymore, just a bench of yiiiiiiiii, aiiiiiiiiii, etc.
honestly i didn’t finish so i didn’t know what the argument really was. just thought they might be talking different things. plus i don’t know any cantonese. however if listening to yue opera it may help. 😀
Coach, the way you said yan is more like saying yam, tone is going down and short haha.
人should have the same intonation as errr/ erm, low throat sound.
睇到我好激動🤣好想衝去幫Jay一齊去解釋
Same😂😂😂
係啊😂搞到我又笑又周身癢
Me too 😅
12:47寫人［如］數字，但講咗人［魚］數字😂
其實係人［與］數字有許多怪事
看看計數機裡幽禁幾多人質
@@Jojo-dk1ld Very good example 😂
As a Cantonese native speaker, I really want to jump into the screen and explain to you guys how amazing George Lam is
Super amazing
Big fans of George lam for 30years already
not easy to sing his song with chest voice and with accurate pronunciation....
應該讓老師聽聽看林子祥的十分十二寸 堪稱神級現場
我以前在一个电视节目(忘了是哪个节目了)解释过这首歌的数字的其中一个意义是代表股市的指数， 数字那一段快速的唱法不单是炫技，还表现了人们看着股市指数上上下下时的澎湃心情。我个人觉得林子祥很好地表演了这首歌的精髓。
Stocks are categorize as 4 digit in HK. It was an irony to that era people are crazy about trading stocks. Also to add 13943 13424 already has life and death associate with it
應該也是說我們的人的一生跟數字脫離不了關係,出生就有出生日期，體重身高等....上學考試的分數，上班的薪水數字，乃至於時間分分鐘都離不開數字，所以叫數字人生。
The inspiration also come from a movie about a robot talking back from Lam.
She does have a point why graduation song? The original was actually a horse racing jockey song on the middle…
As a Hongkonger, coach he is absolutely right 😂😂😂😂
Coach, he is 100% right, haha He did not messing with you. As a Cantonese Native Speaker and a Hongkonger.
His example of 4, if singing in a different tone like coach's example (That 4 with a rifts and runs) could make 4 sound like dead.....
so singer is hard to add rifts and runs as free as English and Mandarin.
That's why for a Cantonese native speaker might feel harder to sing English song well. ( I mean the vibe not the pronouncing)
This song's number is showing a social phenomenon about "people are crazy to get wealthy from stocks" in 80s-90s 's Hong Kong.
Those numbers is mimicking when people shouting the number of stock they own in front of the stock index.
Like Horse Racing, people would shout the number of horse they bought during the race.
That's why he sing in that less musicality way
He is 100% right 😂 trust him. We might still be able to guess it but it just doesnt sound right. Totally unbearable
but i think he did not explain it well, the numbers from the lyrics are actually also referring to the tones.. if this is mentioned, i think everything will be make sensed
@@miicosillustration1750英國管理香港99年，英語被列為官方語言，唱英文歌還會那麼難嗎？🤔
Hong Kong native who also studied a bit linguistics in university here.
I will have to say Jay is so right in this one. Cantonese is just restrictive in terms of lyrics writing. You really have to match the tone of the word to the relative pitch or it will lose intelligibility - it can either be a totally different word, or a non-existent nonsense sound that aren’t related to any existing words. So Cantonese lyricists, especially the good ones, are hailed as Masters because they really have to know their shit well, and most of them do well in Mandarin lyrics too because they are so well-trained.
I would say it’s not entirely impossible to do riffs in Cantonese, but there are just so much constraints. If u can go up and down like roller coaster when u sing in Cantonese, u will inevitably get another word in many of the notes u glide through, though people will probably still understand what is being sung as the first note is in correct tone, it will somehow sound a bit stupid when the notes land at words that carry funny meanings. Take the word four “四” that Jay used in the video as an example. When Jay tried to shift its tone, he actually borderline hit the tone for the word “死” which means die, as “four”and “die” share the exact same sound, just varied by tone (four is in the 3rd tone and die in the 2nd). So u can imagine how funny it is when u doing riff of the word four but may have told people to die for a few times in the process lol. Well there are singers who do riffs in Cantonese songs, but they are mostly limited to the non-lyrical ad-lib parts, the riffs in lyrics part are much much less and they have to be planned out carefully beforehand.
just like how you try to say "she" but end up sounding like "shit"... lol
As a native Hongkonger fluent in Cantonese and with a background in linguistics and music, I can understand the viewpoints expressed by both Teacher Jay and Teacher Rozette. *** Like Jay mentioned, Cantonese is distinct from English and Mandarin due to its unique phonetics and wide range of tone patterns. As native Cantonese speakers, we can easily recognize when non-locals genuinely try to learn but struggle with even the slightest 0.001% mispronunciation of a vowel or tone. (Interestingly, there is a growing number of mainland Chinese, Taiwanese, Malaysians, and even South Koreans learning and speaking Cantonese due to their love for Hong Kong movies, singers, or TVB broadcasts.) *** I also agree with Rozette's observation that certain Cantonese words have extended sounds, resulting in a smoother and less abrupt delivery. However, this poses a challenge for songwriters and lyricists creating Cantonese songs. *** Balancing the use of sound-extendable characters to fit the melody structure while conveying meaningful themes aligned with the overall message, story, and emotions of the song is incredibly difficult. *** Cantonese songs primarily emphasize the comprehensive picture, emotions, narrative, and lyrical meaning over musical rhythm. For example, the song "數字人生" aims to depict the stock market and the thrilling moments experienced when witnessing dramatic drops or increases in stock prices. Intentionally the songwriter densely packs numerical lyrics, while the original singer, Mr. Sam Lam, delivers the words sharply. *** If the CZ Media team is interested in non-choppy Cantonese songs, I highly recommend listening to Terrence Lam, the pianist and songwriter of "是但求其愛" in your previous video. His songs convey complex and deep emotions, without adhering to the usual clear pronunciation of Cantonese singers (which is why some Hong Kong song listeners don't appreciate Terrence and humorously refer to him as a monk due to his intentionally unclear pronunciation, haha) (This version of Terrence's 某種老朋友 is beautifully performed! czcams.com/video/5L23Xvtblu8/video.html).
嘩 我本人認為林家謙有一種同以前開聽嘅廣東歌有一種另類嘅感覺，但係又講唔出係咩 但我覺得係好聽嘅多謝你嘅解釋
informative
數字人生唱的不只是想展現歡樂的氣氛，隨著歌曲的推進及語氣的變化，從原先的感嘆到後來的永不放棄奮鬥的精神，是本片最後的純粹娛樂是不一樣歌曲的定位。
因为他们把评论重点放在粤语发音😂。。。真心觉得他们应该要重做这集，好好专心听一段再评论
@@sannie0208 真的，用数字和粤语歌来表达人生的无常，这也是小伙子一开始说老师不懂语言的所在。但是后面一直在纠结发音，好无语。。。
I’m from Hong Kong native Cantonese speaker and I can ensure you you can trust Jay😂
終於等到林子祥了❤，其實在聲生不息中有更多林子祥的現場
It is just how Cantonese is. This is why Cantonese is so unique and why we are so proud of it. I am sorry you can't relate to it but I am pretty sure most of us Cantonese finds it amazing.
這次我站在杰凱那邊，粵語最jb的一點就是極講究音調，九聲六調平聲仄聲，不顧發音咬字去玩轉音你只會讓懂粵語的人眉頭大皺而已，目前我個人認為能用粵語唱出優秀的靈活性的人只有陳奕迅跟側田兩人而已，填詞更是困難，用粵語講話的人不像其他語言可以突然高音或改成別的音來遷就你的情緒，硬要這樣做你出來的東西就不是粵語了，不然你問方大同為什麼不愛唱粵語歌😂
他似乎說過很不好轉，所以他才在香港出國語唱片
所以為什麼同樣的歌曲，普通話和粵語都必須重新填詞，粵語叫李香蘭，普通話變成秋意濃。因為若要硬翻，歌詞押韻都沒了。更何況粵語連捲舌音都沒有！
梅豔芳呢？她的粵語歌怎麼樣？
任何填詞人都清楚國語語係易寫過粵語極多
@@mod6365 艷*
老師聽過幾次廣東歌都無法理解🤣 好想看老師被香港/廣東人的聲樂老師教她一首廣東歌😂
This reminds me of those translated hymns from school. 歌詞：「我是主的羊」，但唱出嚟就變晒「我是豬的羊」 或者「疴屎豬的羊」
Yes!! 大部分聖詩都係咁🤣🤣仲有“主能夠”
😂
完美並貼切解釋😂😂👍🏻👍🏻
@@HKK123 which church you coming from bro?
主撚鳩 主撚鳩 教會歌真係完美例子😂
香港聽眾的我來發表一下自己的見解😀
我們在唱這首歌時,那一大串看似"隨機"沒意思的數字,我們是不用硬背起來的
Jay一直解答不到老師的疑惑,因為他把重點都放在字的"音調"上,而不是音調與音調之間的"走向"
30624700廣東話的每個字之間的高低音走向,基本上就和旋律大致上是一致的(但沒有到完全一樣)
跟據旋律走向,就可以大概知道下一個數字要唱甚麼
所以在老師眼中那些只是"隨機"數字,在我們的角度裡卻不一樣
對，這首只聽幾次，我便可毫不費力記得歌詞
冇錯 呢首歌只要記旋律就唱到啲數字
一填錯就好明顯 冇得兜
@@reneelau7304神奇
@@Y3llow_Submarin3 因為唱出來跟說出來的音調差不多，所以不用特意去記歌詞，只要想到那個音，腦海中就可以自動想出要唱的歌詞
這首歌對於會說粵語的人來說，記歌詞超容易，而且一定不會記錯
呢首歌填詞嘅人，簡直係天才😂
I think it can be explained as follow:
Like the sound 'Yen' mentioned in the video, pronouncing in different tones would have different meaning
Yen (因) = Reason; Yen (隱) = Hide; Yen (印) = Print; Yen (人)= People; Yen (引) = lead; yan (刃) = knife
So if you sing in a different tone - Words have different meaning and you can't understand what the singer is singing at all @@ and of course meaning of the song will be massively different!!
👍👍👍
So difficult to explain how cantonese works to a western person…
Great explanation. Just wanna add: it is not a question of "can or cannot?". it is more like "how much can you do it with each character before it sounds weird and unnatural". some are more forgiving, while some can be very strict. not to mention when you combine chinese characters into words. when combined, the rules can become even more strict.
Great explanation
解釋得好👍
除此之外, 下次可以引用口型要求嚴謹的入聲字, 例如"足、逐、續、辱、綠、曲", 更加容易解釋轉音後會變成另一個意思。
This song is writing for describing our life keep chasing for different numbers like the stocks, money, KPI, etc. So the energetic performance in the chorus is working for showing our effort, non-stop, non-break in our life, so i think George Lam did it well to show that kind of energy and emotion.
The melody of the graduation song in the end, is a metaphor that our life is going to the end after chasing for the numbers for many years. Somehow we thought we are going to rest and retire, but this world still bring us to the numbers again, so they back to the chorus.
Besides, I think this song also showed the magic of Cantonese, as a native Cantonese speaker, I even need not to read the lyrics, given that I remember the melody of the chorus, I can pop-up the exact same number lyrics in my mind. Because we have a rule when writing Cantonese lyrics, and the lyrics of this song demonstrate well how we use our language in music as lyrics.
這集真的辛苦jay了XD 不過其實粵語是九聲六調，簡單來說只有6個tone！但填詞的時候有幾個調是相通的 所以其實填詞只需注意四個調！！那就是所謂的「0243」，有興趣的人可以看看香港電影「填詞L」很好看 也把粵語填詞解釋得很好❤ 另外一直很好奇為什麼國語也有四個聲調 當中有一些甚至跟粵語聲調差不多！但為何粵語填詞要「啱音」 但國語就不用呢？？😫 有人知道為什麼嗎？
另外粵語好聽rnb例子一大堆啊！！
就隨便說幾首我個人很喜歡的：
jay fung愛斯基摩人之吻
側田erica 咖啡因萬歲
gemx側田 合唱歌
然後幾乎所有gareth t的歌！！
可是說回數字人生
林子祥根本是神人 他厲害是毋容置疑
但其實這首歌真的難嗎？🤔🤔
他的「敢愛敢做」那些才是真的難吧xd
actually as a hongkonger/cantonese this song isnt really hard at all.. well except maybe for the last part where u have to sing really fast and one part where the pitch(key？) eg 明明刨正23～is kinda high for guys～other then that, even kids can sing this lol, so i dont understand why jay say its hard～ i think people say its hard maybe because that younger singer isnt native in canto so its hard for him to pronounce the words correctly..
我是香港人，其實這首歌大部份都很容易唱啊😅 就是有一兩句男key來說比較高音，然後後面要很快就稍微有點難度.. 可是前面一堆數字根本是香港人都能很容易唱.. 像兒歌一樣 甚至是音痴也可能可以manage 因為這首歌特別之處就是用數字填 很容易跑調的人反而比較容易唱對音，因為這首歌就像直接唸那些數字出來的時候已經有大概的音調.. 不過這真的很難對不懂粵語的人解釋 所以我很懂jay的痛苦 lol😂😂
然後關於廣東話vs英文那部分jay固然說得沒錯，但其實粵語歌一直在進步慢慢衝破一些限制 沒有因為這些限制而固步自封 例如以前沒有那麼多粵語r&b 現在已經有超多很好聽的 當中也有很多是有轉音的！雖然我覺得老師有點固執，語言本身setting絕對是很大的因素啊！她始終沒明白粵語填詞要「啱音」的那個重點，不過我也認同雖然粵語是比較多限制 要加轉音那些比較難～但當然不是不可能 但要有技巧～ 我自己也很喜歡r&b 所以一直希望多點粵語r&b～～ 推薦jay放側田和gem的「合唱歌」給老師聽聽！！！jay fung gareth t等等都是很棒的粵語r&b歌手 快給老師聽「愛斯基摩人之吻」另外側田也有很多rnb feel的歌超正的 推erica、咖啡因萬歲等等🙆🏻♀️ 還有衛蘭 souljase marf... 不能盡錄
for a native cantonese speaker, it is not really hard to sing, but the hard part of this song is, it is technically hard to sing (or pronounce) the lyric correctly while maintaining the correct pitch and tone of the word/lyric and not singing it using falsetto. Most of George Lam's song, he sang with chest voice which can be very demanding sometimes.
你可以去聽聽Gareth T湯令山唱「緊急聯繫人」和MC張天賦版本的比較。。。原唱改字音慘不忍睹
@@leslieleegz 邊粒字有改字音？🤔
@@lemonlovestea czcams.com/video/IuL3bFL5g3o/video.html
👍👍👍👍👍
While watching, I wish I could explain to Miss Rozette in person!
Jay was right that Cantonese has NINE TONES (!) and if the word doesn't fit into the note, it would sound really silly.
For example, for 'ma', if it is 'so' (in so-fa names), it could mean 'mother', if it is in 'me', it could mean 'blaming', if it is in 'do', it could mean 'linen (the material)'. There are nursery rhymes (or even hymns) with 'words not fitting the sounds', and they just sound funny and being teased sometimes.
As an English teacher in England with Cantonese being my mother tongue, speaking also Mandarin and French, plus some basic German, Spanish and Japanese, I believe I have got the knowledge to explain about what is so unique about Cantonese.
Back to this particular song, however, I think that Jay tried really hard to explain, but did miss one IMPORTANT POINT:
It was the VIBE of the song!
In Chinese songs, lyrics are so important as we previously discussed (or are in ongoing discussions), the lyrics of this song, 'Life of Numbers', was actually about how Hongkongers were controlled and manipulated by the the numerous numbers in their everyday life, even pushed and stressed by all these various numbers everywhere.
In view of that, the song was presenting how 'rush' the people's lives were.
This song was produced in an era when Hong Kong's economy was high flying, and the pressure in life was getting higher and higher.
#The 'numbers' in this song did indicate things like 'codes of stocks in the stock market' and 'number of the horses in horseracing', etc.
Jay is damn right about Cantonese!.
廣東歌發音原自生活，那種貼近自然的語境，帶來的震撼力是無與隣比的
倫*比
@@ww2200 🤣
Expecting for coach Rozette listen more Cantonese songs there‘re many skillful song 😄😄
This discussion is music to my ears. Jay’s explanation is spot on. I’m loving the heated and thoughtful conversation about a Cantonese song on a linguistic as well as musical level. You have set yourself apart from many other channels with this. 广东歌词确实特别难填，香港的填词人对推动粤语音乐和文化真是功不可没。I want both of you to be my besties 🤭😍 Very thought provoking video!! 👍🏼
好想看這個！！！終於有阿Lam
😂😂😂老師反應好搞笑
如果讓老師聽出粵語的聲調人聲與普通話的層次面分別，希望能建議可以讓老師聽取多點、一些廣東歌改編自英文歌：
林子祥(我愛你)改自_(Uptown Girl)
林子祥(千憶個夜晚)改自_(Lonely Won't Leave Me Alone)
林憶蓮(依然)改自_Mariah Carey(I Still Believe)
陳曉東(愛一天多一天)改自_Westlife(Open Your Heart)等等......
或者改編自日文歌：
張學友(壯志驕陽)改自_Kan(愛は勝つ)。
張國榮(有誰共鳴)改自_谷村新司(儚きは)。
羅文(好歌獻給你)改自_西城秀樹(Blue Sky Blue)。
國語歌-周華健(花心)改自_夏川りみ(花)。
其實，太多我們耳熟能詳的歌曲都能容易對比就聽得出粵語普通話的聲音語氣或歌曲味道分別之處。 ❤
多謝！
等好久了❤
Yes, what Jay said was totally correct. Cantonese speaker here.
It's more challenging to do riffs and runs in Cantonese, because of the specific tone of each single word.
But of course, that doesn't mean impossible. You just need to choose the perfect part to do it carefully. (and pick the right notes for your runs)
R&B singers like Khalil Fong and Jay Fung do it very well. But still, you can compare... when they sing english songs, they tend to have more freedom doing riffs and runs. But when they do Cantonese songs, they can't go as free and as intuitive.
If you simply sing Cantonese lyrics and do runs and ornamental notes without considering the tone of the words, the whole song would sound like a Cantonese-wannabe weird foreign language....
呢期超好笑😂…
我而家明白學廣東話應該真係最崩潰，
因為解釋嗰個已經好崩潰。😂😂😂
It's an excellent explanation .
我想兩個主持人爭論的點都不是這首歌要表達的原意，這是一首緊湊的趣味歌，難度就是人很難快速準確跟上快節奏及歌詞，這首歌人享受征服速度的快感，就像你不能在rap中間要求轉調，不然整個味道都變了，這個歌跟rap一樣就是在追求速度極致的趣味，男主也講錯粵語為啥不能轉調，粵語在抒情歌就轉的很厲害，但有些歌曲的呈現並不是只是在凸顯唱功多厲害，有些則是追求速度一氣呵成的快感。
沒錯 這首歌歌詞又多又密 中間能喘口氣就不錯了 根本就別想再有多餘時間展現一下轉音會顫音 如果要討論這一點 挑首抒情慢歌也許會比較容易理解 不過這首歌我聽起來大部分的音都是重音 但正確粵語發音也是重音嗎 這我就不知道了
最後面有講到這點了
這緊湊的節奏一口氣唱完是非常困難的
橘老師也才恍然大悟
但真的是最後面才發現
好想Rozette橘老師用粵語講「入實驗室㩒緊急掣」「西施死時四十四，四十四時西施死」🤣
語文文化交流🥹不過要辛苦杰凱😂我們廣東話真是好難講😔
另外想補充下，聽過唱者講過那一段數字是反應我們人生，年齡，機械，計數機股市等等都與數字有關，即使音樂也是一樣！
你們加油！我超級鍾意你們的channel
Hi Rozette, I'm fluent in Mandarin & Cantonese. What he explained to you is absolutely right.😊
老師結尾那段太讚了！
期望下期🎉！
林子祥 聲生不息誰能明白我 超好聽👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
也可以做他们两公婆的合唱👍
這集真的讚哈哈哈哈
I am Cantonese speaker, I total agree the guy's opinion
有爭議絕對是好事🎉🎉加油
終於有"我們的歌"!這個節目出了很多精品合唱值得去挖。“聲生不息”也是。超期待老師聼七十多嵗的林子祥，真正寶刀未老。
Jay you really made my day!!!! Laugh tiill can't breath now. As a Hong Kong-er, i felt your "oh no......" in your heart😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
小時候聽林子祥是享受，現在聽是感慨歲月如梭，聽合唱只有唏噓即使老了還無人媲美，這差距⋯⋯
林子祥(Lam)絕對是香港的歌神。❤
第一代铁肺歌神
我覺得佢係香港認第一 冇人敢認第二
Lam，真係勁
還有 Sam HOI 許冠杰 ，香港當代流行粵語歌曲鼻祖
如果指的是稱號上的話他是鐵肺歌神，香港歌手是許冠杰、張學友、陳奕迅，但如果你指的是實力上的話，他確實有資格被稱作香港歌神
老師，相信傑，粵語真的不簡單🤣
另外，老師結尾那首歌好好聽呀！！🤩
哈，這集我一直笑，實在太有趣了😆
10000％ agree with Cantonese tone, 6tone+3cut tone(k,t,p).
Actually in Cantonese lyrics, sometimes you can twist the tone a little bit, to match the melody.
But if you make a wrong tone in Cantonese, will be a totally different meaning.
For example, in Cantonese "9", wrong tone will be "enough", "dick", "old".
The Best Example Here🤣🤣💖👏👏
Old not "lou"?
@@user-dx1cf6sk7kI think IT is “旧”
@@user-dx1cf6sk7k old=舊
@user-dx1cf6sk7k maybe I use "vintage" instead of "old" will be better？
希望老師評價更多經典粵語歌曲😊
就爱看你俩的自由辩论，思想的火花如同夜空里的烟花🎆灿烂美丽，加油继续，我学习到了很多知识谢谢你们
Finally you reacted to Hu Xia 胡夏❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉. Please do more of his song. He is the best singer in the new generation in China. His 那些年、 信仰 performance is very good. His is a very good live vocalist!
用一個字讀九聲作示範應該比較容明白～我是在香港讀中文系的，要學廣東話，普通話，也要學英文的語言系統，根據我的學習直接把一個字用九聲讀，然後說這九字也有其意思會比較能知道廣東話系統的複雜性
但我也明白老師會懷疑的想法，始終太不同了，有求真的想法很好，但也辛苦解釋了😂因為真的很難短時間或用簡單數句解釋到😂加上廣東話不是你的母語😂😂
我睇完你留言終於明佢地嘈咩😂
廣東話有9音，每個音代表一個字，如果轉左音就變左第2隻字意思都唔用。
好似刁，屌😊
英文就小咁既情況出現，仲可以拉開個音來講/唱😅
This song is about the numbers in our lives, called Life of Numbers. It’s about our lives being surrounded by numbers, from our ID cards, passport numbers, licence numbers, net worths, weights, IQs, stock prices etc., a more modern relevance can be instagram followers, CZcams views, mobile numbers etc. Numbers are essentially life.
It’s supposed to be funny but also makes us reflect on the numbers in our lives and their significances. I think the end sounding like graduation can be interpreted as the graduation of life after learning to enjoy life ignoring the numbers.
And yes, those are random numbers, just like the numbers assigned to us throughout our lives, relatable. The difficulty lies in them being able to memorise random numbers and sing or scream them correctly and quickly.
Jay why are you so adorable..I'm a fan of Jay from this episode. I don't any Mandarin native speakers can speak Cantonese as well as Jay. I think you have explained it very well...WELL DONE!
Jay is right!! When I was thinking how to explain, I found there were so many great examples in the comments🤣
我是香港人，學習了其他語言才發現，廣東話真的是一種沒有什麼包容性的語言，不像國語、英文、日文、韓文⋯⋯那樣，被允許有著不同地區的口音，例如聽到別人跟自己的口音不一樣，不會馬上判定對方的口音就是「不標準」、或判定對方應該是外國人，而是會先猜對方的出身地可能距離自己很遠。但廣東話只要有一兩個字的發音講的「不標準」（不是香港口音），我們幾乎會馬上認定對方不是土生土長的香港人，就是這麼嚴苛。😂
既然叫“廣東話”，或者“粵語”，這門語言本來就是廣東省內流通，甚至廣西也有部份地區使用，粵語在廣東省內不同地區有多個不同分支，只不過因為廣州上千年都是省會，無論政治或是經濟地位都是省內最高，所以廣州口音被廣泛認為是粵語的主流口音。香港的原居民本來不是說廣州口音的粵語，他們部份說“圍頭話”--類近東莞話的粵語，有些客家村落說客家話而非粵語，只不過二十世紀後大量珠三角一帶人口移入香港，將廣州音粵語帶進香港，所以令香港主流口音從圍頭話變成廣州口音。廣東話從來沒有不包容，不包容的只是香港人。
@@xjw1734哈哈我聽到廣州粵語我也能分辨他們不是香港人
利申：我是大馬人
@@xjw1734兄弟，他是比喻，你自抬了
@@yufred9569很遺憾地，很多香港人一聽到其他人講不同口音的粵語時，就一臉嫌棄，先入為主覺得其他人不正宗。我一直覺得這種思維正正是對推廣粵語一大障礙。動不動就被人笑有口音、不正宗，其他人又怎會願意學習粵語呢？
@@xjw1734 反而美國人對非本土帶口音語的人較包容
我第一次聽數字歌的時候是香港一次做慈善電視節目，當時是捐款熱線電話＇林子祥每隔一段時間唱出來叫大家打這個捐款熱線捐錢
其實佢講得好啱, 佢話只係聽到兩個人係度大叫, 其實真係好啱
因為呢首"歌" , 根本上係利用廣東話既"九聲聲調" 去取代唱歌既"音調"
所以佢聽到既"用唱歌音調去唱一D字出黎", 其實係"用九聲聲調"去講一D野出黎
呢個過程係發音上其實係好RAW, 冇加入音樂元素(冇高低音,但會有拉長縮短)
而都係證明左廣東話歌詞係好難加入高低音(可以話係無法加入), 所以要用填詞去做功夫遷就作曲的音樂(音調)
簡單D講, 以下句子, 你只需要講出黎, 唔需要加入"唱", 就已經有"唱"既效果
3~0624700, 3~0624770
I am a native cantonese speaker, living in Hong Kong. I totally agree with Jay. Cantonese has 9 tones, even the same word pronounced in different tone will have a different meaning. For example, Jay taught Rozette to say "人" (means human), but when Rozette pronounces it sounds like "印 YOUNG" (means print), it's different meaning. If just saying this single word, honestly, I don't understand. But if saying it in a whole sentence, I might able to guess what you're talking about.
用（人）字做個比喻
第一聲 讀音（因）英文=because
第二聲 讀音（忍）英文= Tolerate
第三聲 讀音（印）英文= print
第四聲 讀音（人）英文= people
第五聲 讀音（引）英文= lead
第六聲 讀音（刃）英文= blade
第七聲 讀音（壹）英文= one
第八聲 讀音（沒有相應同音聲調字）
第九聲 讀音 （日）英文= day
又打個比喻，將（壹/1）第七聲在唱歌時轉作第四聲（人），除了發聲會好奇怪，意思亦會變得無法解釋😂😂😂
希望老师能多看看林子祥的歌……他是一位很传奇的歌手
詢問我粵語母語的另一半，他說我的比喻不錯
「普通話寫出來的粵語歌，就像是外國人說中文，你知道他在說什麼，但就是哪裡不對」
不完全對，就像影片中9:02那裏的（騎瘦馬），如果沒字幕只靠聽的話，真的猜不出來，因為音調完全不同。
知不知道他在說什麼，要看聽的那個人的慧根😂
香港歌星來台灣說普通話 我們也知道他們在說甚麼 但仍舊感到彆扭啊 但是知道 能溝通不就好了 很多歌曲本來詞是第三聲 但是曲是第二聲 那在唱的時候還是得唱成第二聲(上揚) 不然整首歌就失去流暢感了
@@kin10000 難怪她叫我不要學這首w
哈哈哈，就像野狼Disco
As an applied linguist and a phonetician, Jkai is absolutely right. The major difference between Cantonese and English is Cantonese is a tonal language - changing a tone may change the meaning of the word. Cantonese works on vowel and consonant plus 9 tones. English works only vowel and consonant - in which changing the tone may only change the sentence stresses. Also, the diphthongs in Cantonese is slightly different from English (some overlap though). I hope I can help to support JKai’s point.
最後的表演好棒好活潑
敢爱敢做 should do, he is the legend, i join member for please do reaction for 敢爱敢做
From a linguistic point of view, the Chinese language itself is a more developed vowel language, whether it's the four tones of Mandarin or the nine tones of Cantonese is the difference between vowels, which also leads to the Chinese language (including various dialects) in the creation of music pay more attention to the lyrics, music in the early days are only service to the words (such as the Tang Dynasty and Song Dynasty, etc.), when writing the lyrics is extremely important to rhyme.
I don't know much about music history, but as far as I know most pop music nowadays originates from Western music, and Hong Kong singers of that era were considered to be more avant-garde, as they introduced a lot of Western music, and then combined it with their own lyric-writing habits.
When it comes to Hong Kong singers, there are some songs that are available in both Cantonese and Chinese (Eason Chan, for example), but for those who know Cantonese, the Cantonese version is always so irreplaceable because that's the true fusion of lyrics and music. Cantonese song pursue is to create music while balancing this spirit of a poet who dances in shackles. It also shows how rare it is to find the famous lyricist Albert Leung.
Another problem is that the Cantonese language has checked tones (-t,-k,-p), and the numbers 1, 6, 7, 8 and 10 are all checked tones. The checked tones are short and rapid sounds, the end of the pronunciation is the -t (like 178) with the tip of the tongue on the teeth, or the -p (like 10) with the lips closed, or the -k (like 6) with the tightening of the throat. It should be because of this language feature that the arrangement was changed to this kind of rhythm that is on the fast side with rap.
The three checked tones are already three of the nine tones in Cantonese, so it's no wonder that the teacher kept saying that didn't feel the tones 🤣 Not to say that there aren't any of these endings in English, such as sheep, shit, shake (I try to find the ones that are as close as I can), but in addition to the long and short tones in English, such as the difference between shit and sheet. it's not likely that singer will do the runs on “shit”, except that most of them, whether singing sheep or sheeeeeeep, shouldn't have a difference in meaning. But you can't elongate the checked tones in Cantonese.
从语言学的角度来说，汉语本身就是韵母比较发达的语言，无论是普通话的四声又或是粤语的九声都是韵母的区别，这也导致汉语（包含各种方言）在创作音乐时更加重视作词，曲子在早期都只是服务于词的（例如唐诗宋词等），写词时更是极其注重押韵。
我不大懂音乐史，但据我所知现在大多数流行乐都是源自西方音乐，而那个年代香港歌手算是比较前卫的，他们大量引入了西方音乐，再结合自己的填词习惯进行填词。
说到香港歌手，有些歌曲虽然有粤语和中文两个版本（例如陈奕迅），但对于懂粤语的人来说，粤语版总是那么无可取代，因为那才是真正的词曲融合。港乐追求是在创作音乐的同时，又兼顾这种戴着脚镣跳舞的诗人精神。这也体现了著名词作家林夕是多么难能可贵。
还有一个问题，粤语有入声，数字里面1、7、8和10都是入声。入声就是短而且急促的声音，发音的结尾是舌尖顶在牙齿的-t（178)，或是双唇紧闭的-p（10），或是喉咙一紧的-k（6），都是很短促的声音。应该是因为这个语言特点才把编曲改成了这种偏快带rap的节奏。
这边三个入声已经是粤语九声中的三声了，也难怪老师一直说没感觉有调🤣 不是说英文没有这些结尾，像是sheep、shit、shake（我尽量找接近的），但英文中除了有长短音区别的，像是shit和sheet有区别意义。一般应该不会有人在shit转音外，大部分无论是唱sheep或sheeeeeeep应该都不会有意义上的区别。但粤语的入声是不能拉长音的。
this episode is funny😆 teacher so cute😘
As a Hong Kong er , yes ma'am! Cantonese has the absolute tone that if its inaccurate, we need to guess and look at the lyrics to know the words. Look at Eason! He can still do riffs yet he complete the word first then hold it on for longer duration for room of techniques
哈哈，这个好玩了
So interesting of her reaction, coz most of Chinese think ar Lam SLAY the stage 😊
Agreed 大风吹....... very funny, I would laugh if I sing this😂
you win, Rozette always wins，Jay just shut up pleeeease , hahahahaha, so much fun😄😄😄😄
終於有80年代香港前輩歌手評論
No, he is not messing with you~🤣Really😆English and Cantonese are totally different.
Totally agree with Jay. I am Hongkonger and now living in canada. I also learn Cantonese in the past .. Jay told you the truth.. :-)
也很推薦林子祥和胡夏合唱的那些年，一首歌兩種味道❤
同一首歌，林子祥還是強太多了，一換林子祥，才開口唱幾個數字我的雞皮疙瘩就冒出來，用靈魂唱歌的歌手真的不一樣。
高手就是高手。。。
老师想说fuck说了一半停住了😅
最勁系依個年紀都可以high C
听了他的前两句，我是真的鸡皮疙瘩都起来，明明我是一个音痴，根本分不出两个人的有什么不同，但潜意识自己作出反应了
母語可以有加成呢～
很期待啊。有沒有男兒當自強，真的漢子，有誰明白我🎉🎉🎉❤
I love the way she face to the camera and ask us if he was correct 😂😂😂😂
and YES! he is TOTALLY CORRECT 👍
老師好可愛
He's absolutely NOT messing - Canto is crazy...
其實應該做comparison林子祥原唱的歌曲和嘗試cover他的歌手版本😂
比如這首數字人生又以comoare to 林子祥，葉倩文和李克勤的版本（雖然哪個好像只有半首）
這首歌真的是在喊出來，老師說得沒錯。
1. Jay, you got a lot of supporters here 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👍👍👍👍👍
2. Hi, Rozette！Love your show ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐❤❤❤❤❤and learned a lot⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐from it!
3. As a Cantonese speaker that write songs, lyrics and do concert and music production as hobby, i can confirm Jay is telling the truth about the 9 tones and all "pronunciation" of each word are extremely short single syllable (chopped as you noticed) or double syllable bond tighly together. That means one syllable one word. Changing the tone would make one word sound like another word with a totally different meaning. The word 我 (I/me) changing the tone would sound like 鵝 (goose) or 餓 (hungry). Therefore, it is harder to write Cantonese lyrics than Mandarin lyrics. Imagine, 我愛你 (I love you) changing the tone would become 鵝愛你 (goose loves you). In reality, speaking Cantonese would be similar to singing the "Flight of the Bumblebee".
4. Chinese is "pictographic" language instead of phonics. One (sometimes two) syllable word represent a picture of something like 我 (I/me) or changing the tone would become 鵝 (goose) or 餓 (hungry). Another example would be 一 (one) would become 日 (sun) . Put then together 一日 meaning (one day) with the correct tone would make it works, but changing the tone would make it meaningless.
5. In phonic language, changing the tone and pitch of "I love you" would not change its meaning. It is still "I love you".
6. Some figures in that song represent a certain stock in Hongkong in a certain year. And some figures represent some companies. Some figures represent a certain feeling about something and someone.
7. @leungrache below made a very good example of 春田花花同学会 (Alumni of the Springfield Kindergarden). That is a children song in Hongkong match with a very funny/non-sense lyrics. Its lyrics are like this: 我們是快樂的好兒童，我們天天一起歌唱 (we are a group of happy children, that sing together every day) and it turn out meaning 鵝滿是快烙滴好耳痛 鵝悶天天一戲個窗！(a school of geese full of fast toasted good ear pain, goose everyday boring one movie one window) .
這個很期待
好想知道老師知道歌詞的意思後的反應
我反而好想知老師睇咗comment 發現Cantonese speaker 一面倒支持 Jay 老師對廣東話有咩想法😂
我認同杰凱😂
I would be on Rozette's side about stressing Cantonese words (I am a Cantonese). To some degree, we could stress and go up and down for a word in a Cantonese song, it is still perfectly fine. The point in this particular Number Song, the song writer and the singer want to express life in a very busy, very quick and non-stoppable way. The extreme difficulty of this song is that the singer will easily run out of breath. But Mr. Lin, the older original singer, can sing it without any issue. And he is 77 year old now, he was 70+ in the performance as well. :) Thanks for your great and fun video!
粵語的確很難搞，我小學三年級轉到澳門上學（澳門的教學語言是粵語），到現在都沒明白九聲六調，（我現在高二）而且，雖然日常說話沒問題，他們不會認為我說的不標準，但是在朗讀的時候，還是有很多不標準，甚至我不知道哪裏不標準，同學糾正我的時候我也聽不出來，只能盡量跟著他們的讀音。😂
因為粵語有短音，就例如數字的1,0等等，你可以試試看拉長音讀，會發現1一旦拉長音，就會變成呃呃呃...。
還有，粵語發音的差別很細微，就好像你們那個片段中小孩子在跳舞的那一段，其中有出現花鞋兩個字，他們說的是不標準的，在我們聽來是花稀兩個字，而這兩個字的發音，在粵語裏是駡人的意思，類似駡別人的生殖器官。
花鞋＝化（門西）
花襪＝化乜
花腰帶＝化腰daai4
全部就只有腰這一字算是對的😂
期待🎉
超期待 6/5 -_-好久
I think the key of this song is to show that cantonese numbers are just like do re mi and they are put together to become a song and even 3yo kids would be able to sing this as long as they can say numbers in Cantonese
👍👍👍👍👍
so many interesting topics could be discussed through this songs 😆
- tone of Cantonese
- choppiness in Cantonese
- meaning of the song
- the style of Mr. Lam in his era ... etc.
in my view, i would say this song is (fun + meaning) > musical artistry
這集對喜歡粵語歌的人很重要欸！！
會了解到近期出的很多速食粵語歌有多烙賽