RDWorks Learning Lab 50 fitting 60watt tube and PSU
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2016
- If you own a Chinese laser cutter this little series of videos about me learning how to use the free software provided, may solve the problem of trying to learn from a virtually unreadable manual.
I am nothing to do with RD Works, I am not an instructor and I am no expert. This series will document the essential bits of many hours of trial and error - Věda a technologie
Can't wait for the next video. Interested in seeing results at different power levels using Milliamp Meter also. I did order the same Millamp Meter you have and just need to cut an enclosure for it once it arrives (Just gonna use magnets to mount to top or side of case as desired). Thanks for letting us look over your shoulder as I will say once again that your videos have been very informative and helped me avoid the very same pitfalls you've conquered.
Hi Russ
I have just ordered my new 60 watt tube and power supply from the same vendor that you used.
Thanks for sharing your link and also for the review "1 year on" later in the series of videos.
Again a very nice video, thumbs up, can't wait for the next one
Like others, looking forward to the next videos - what can you cut with it!!!! Thanks again for very interesting and helpful videos!
just another question what is the little eletric cable that you just brach you said water protecte I did not understand this operation and what track I must plug it thank you
Great vid. Looking forward to the cutting test.
Just watched Lab 50. Please disregard my recent comment. Glad you were well served with iPhonepartsandrepairs . We viewers will benefit greatly from this information. Reviewing all videos again and learning more with each viewing . Don't stop helping and bringing us along. Sincerely, ron
As usual great vid and great info. Thx russ!
Hi Russ When you changed your tube and supply were the plugs wiring the same or did you have to rewire them? I have a new tube and supply and they are not the same. Hope you can help me. the old supply has a small plug with 4 slots and 4 wires: -L, FG, AC and AC which are marked and a larger plug with 6 slots that are not marked but a photo I found on line shows them to be marked as follows: P, G, L, G, IN and 5v. The new supply has a small plug with 3 slots marked FG, AC, and AC so I would assume the -L goes on the larger plug with the other wiring and that 6 slot plug is marked as follows: TH, TL, WP, G, IN and 5v. Is this a problem you can help me with? Thank You
Hi
I think it would be good to have this discussion via email. I can then send pictures. Click on the red Sarbar Multimedia square and it should open a page with tabs. Click on the ABOUT tab and that will open another page with a message button top right. This will be private so it will be safe to send me your email address.
Regards
Russ
I have this same thing currently now, after replacing and rewiring, we are getting minimal power out of the power supply that doesn't alter even when settings are changed from 30% to 100%, would love to get some information in the change over of the wiring please if someone can help. I don't know where else to look. Thanks
Hi Russ . Ive just replaced the power supply on my machine as the original packed in half way through a job. Anyway Ive bought what I think might be a better supply but its 60watts instead of 50 but Im being careful with the power so I dont fry the tube (I have an ammeter ready to go in the machine its just not been wired up yet) . I seem to have a problem in that the laser is cutting alright but its not etching. Ive been trying various sites to find out if we have it wired up correct as we thought the wires would be the same just like you have. The only thing is I have the same machine as you but the controller wires are wired different going into the power supply so Im wondering if the crazy wiring worked with the old supply but for some reason its not working now. I see your wires are fairly straight forward. Do you still have that machine and could you tell me what coloured wires go in what socket on the 6 pin connector at the top of your power supply ? I cant quite see whats going on. Cheers Rob
Hi Rob
Sounds a familiar problem. I have sent you a You Tube message, so go hunting.
Best wishes
Russ
where did you get the little laser watt meter?
I need to cut out preprinted logos to the edge. Any assistance in setting something like that up would be super helpful. thank you!
Hi I am sure there are sevral ways to proceed depending on your materials, size and print accuracy. If you wish to add your email address in a disguised form (john56atgooglemaildotcom) then I will reply and we can discuss.
Best wishes
Russ
I've been looking forward to this test all week, what a result !!!.
I've also been quietly watching your videos with interests. I've recently managed to trail run my own (Workshop built) laser cutter with excellent results.
I would like to thank you as your dedication, knowledge and time, has helped immensely speed the build time of my project.
Keep up the good work!
Have you had any more thoughts on a the meat thermometer?
+Chris Goddard
Hi Chris
Thanks for your appreciation. As I have told many people, this is a bit of a selfish venture , just an old guy enjoying two hobbies together, engineering and video. I record my learning experience with this little Chinese dragon and the fact that others can benefit from my mistakes and experience is a great unplanned bonus. Building your own machine is a serious challenge. I'm not sure I'd live long enough to use to if I had chosen that path....great respect to you.
The meat thermometer has been an ongoing background project for several months. I've played with several seriously wacky ideas as well as a cheapo version of the Macken meter. One of those off-the -wall project shows interesting promise but requires a lot more trialling but the lollipop meter is in it's final stages. Just keep watching.
Many thanks
Russ
BTW do you get any issue with air bubbles? I do get much more bubbles in my 60W tube due to larger water volume. It seems I get a lot of them if I don't turn pump for more than few days. I couldn't find any leaks, so it must have something to do with air dissolved in water... Anyway I found if I run water pump non-stop for more than 2 days, all bubbles disappear.
+bratan007
Up to now with such puny power output , and I don't use my machine continuously (mine is just pleasure use) it's been rare for my small 10 litre system to exceed about 25C. My tube always runs perfectly clear and bubble -free. From time to time I have to check it because it's a bit unnerving. There is a little 3mm bubble trapped in the anode region that dances around in the flow and even though I can hear the pump running and I have a flow switch that little bubble puts my mind at rest. So, we have established that I run bubble-free BUT during my recent "Do you lose power as the water temperatures rises" test I did note that at about 28C I started to get micro bubbles forming on the inside of the water jacket. As I pushed on to 40C the bubbles got bigger and, just like rain running down a window, they broke away and coalesced with others and exited the tube. This was obviously dissolved air coming out of solution. At 40 C there was a bubble carpet all along the top of the water jacket and I was not in the least bit concerned. Why not? because they were not interfering with the heat flow from the ionised gas, they were stuck to the ROOF not the FLOOR of the water jacket. At the moment the air temperature in my unheated workshop is around 6 to 8 C so at present my new 60 watt tube has not gone over 20 C but I suspect that as the ambient rise I shall need to make modifications to my cooling system. People get so hung up on bubbles but if they are moving then they are not causing risk and if they settle in the right place they are equally no risk. Examine the make up of your tube and you will see the curly glass pipe around the anode end That is conducting a flow of gas in a swirling action back to the cathode end. Have you ever felt the outside of your tube running hot? If so you definitely have a cooling issue and probably serious loss of power.
You have rightly observed that your bubbles are dissolved air, but it's always worth checking that your return to tank pipe is well below the water line so that it cannot entrain air.
Regards
Russ
I've only got the old tube, but I get bubbles if I leave the machine more than a few days.
I suspect that air is getting in to either where the pipes join the machine, or more likely in the flow sensor slowly lets air in.
I recall that Russ removed his flow sensor a while ago, but I don't know if he fitted it again.
(I also recall, that Russ completely replaced his pipes with larger diameter ones, ages ago, which probably makes a difference as well.
What sealant did you use or should you use to seel the wire onto the tube? at 12.11 in the video.
It is a silicon sealant but NOT bath sealant. It must be non -corrosive. It will normally be sold as RTV sealant and a small tube of this is widely available from local suppliers, Ebay or Amazon.
aee
www.ebay.com/itm/SERVISOL-6200003100-RTV-SILICONE-SEALANT-CLEAR-75ML/181883211297?epid=1810895473&hash=item2a59158e21:g:MFgAAOxyrM5TIjM3
Here is the data sheet
static.rapidonline.com/pdf/87-1132t.pdf
Note the high dielectric strength
Best wishes
Russ
Russ, I purchased my Chinese laser about two and a half years ago and am ready to upgrade my tube. I went to the Mactron website to look for a replacement but could not find tubes or power supplies listed. Do they still sell upgrades like you installed? I have found an upgrade package from Cloudray. Is their product equivalent? Do you have any other suggestions? I have watched many of your videos and have learned much to help me use mine. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Gerald
Mactron was my first replacement tube more than 6 years ago and it was not a modern long life tube BUT it is still going strong today. For 2 other machines, I found a better equivalent at Cloudray who sell an SPT tube that has been officialy relabelled as a Cloudray brand. It is the CR70. It claims to be a 60 watt tube in the spec but in reality run it at the 23mA current limit recommended and it delivers 80 watts. It is a superb tube and does not cost a fortune. However, DHL/UPS will double the cost with their delivery service. You will ideally need an 80 watt HV powetr supply but as you will see in this video where I fit the CR70 it to one of my machines, it runs at 100% power with a the 60 watt HV power supply which is just about capable of delivering 23mA
www.cloudraylaser.com/collections/co2-laser-tube/products/cloudray-bundle-for-sale-cr70-metal-head-co2-laser-tube-80w-laser-power-supply
Watch this czcams.com/video/V_ehGE51rH4/video.html
Best wishes
Russ
Hey Russ, it’s a pleasure watching your videos and very helpful in so many ways. I think I have the same version as you and I’m trying to get the laser to pulse or fire and nothing seems to work.
I have water flow and tests the flow meter and it’s good. Need distilled water and everything looks clear.
I Used a Fluke voltAlert tracer 90-1000VAC
And when I hit test on the the side of the power supply it does make the tester alarm.
Do you know what else would be the reason why I’m not getting the tube to work?
Thank, Clayton
Hi Clayton
This could be more than a few comments and suggestions. Please contact me privately with this contact form and we can work through the problem logically
forms.zohopublic.eu/ndeavorlimited/form/K40XtreeemLaserCutterContactRussSadler/formperma/k2Cn0QN5ChpazfTMAUw25lZ-FKpjZa96TQWHjv3ntOg
Speak soon
Will do I sent you a message. Thanks.
Thanks Russ. It seems it's wired up correctly but I think the 60 watt supply and 50 watt tube means some settings are out now. I'd mess around with the settings but the wife has me cutting things non stop ! Cheer Rob
Hi Rob
The %power on these machones gives the impression that you are selecting watts when you change this value. Wrong. Yes it does ultimately affect the watts output but when you select a % power your white controller outputs a dc voltage between 0 and 5v where 0%=0v and 100%=5v. That voltage is used to control the current range available in your power supply. So if you have a 60watt power supply it is likely to have a max current output of say 24mA. So 0v=0mA and 5V=24mA. Sadly, the power from the laser is not linear so there is no direct relationship between the %power you select and the watts you get. All we can say is that 20 mA is the max allowable for a 50 watt tube and thus 80% of 24mA is about 20mA.
Hope that makes sense.
Best wishes
Russ
SarbarMultimedia I've got an ammeter ready to go in the machine so I'll be able run run it higher then. Thanks for your help. Rob
Hi Russ,
I’m rewatching your most excellent series which I came across when they first came out just about 8 years ago. I still have the same machine with the same tube, PSU, controller, same software, etc that it came with in 2016/7 and it looks exactly the same as your original big blue one. It still functions albeit inefficiently.
I now want to upgrade the components (Tube, PSU and controller board) to make it a proper 60W or 80W machine and so I can use Lightburn.
Would you still recommend Mactron or is there an another (UK based?) supplier that you now prefer?
Can you recommend specific components, please?
Thank you once again for your hard work in translating/demystifying the setup and use of laser cutters! Outstanding job!
Many thanks,
Jerry
Hi Jerry
Lots has happened during the interevening 8 years since this video. The good news is that this tube is still running as good as new. However things have moved on a lot and I have bought several new tubes and know a lot more now that |I did then.
It may be easier to contact me privately so that we can use email rather than an open forum to discuss your upgrade options
The following fom will allow you to contact me
forms.zohopublic.eu/ndeavorlimited/form/K40XtreeemLaserCutterContactRussSadler/formperma/k2Cn0QN5ChpazfTMAUw25lZ-FKpjZa96TQWHjv3ntOg
Many thanks for the support and patience as I picked a zig zag path to understanding how this whole technology worked.
Thanks Rus
I am seriously thinking of following your lead and buying one of those tubes.
Cutting wood using the original laser is quite tricky, and I never seem to get such good results as you do.
I just spend a few hours, realigning beam, and it seems to have made a bit of an improvement, so I can cut through 3mm plywood at around 20mm / sec
However cutting anything thicker still alludes me :-(
Hi Roger
If you haven't watched it already you may like to watch czcams.com/video/61bGzWicRRk/video.html
Best wishes
Russ
Thanks Russ
I did watch that video, because I have both the 38 and 50mm lenses
I've had the 38mm lens in the machine for some time, but was having issues cutting 3mm plywood, so swapped back to the 50mm lens in case the issue was the bend in the plywood affecting the focus of the lens.
But after watching your power density video, I swapped back to the 38 and re-aligned the laser - and it seems a bit better now.
Ideally if I'm going to increase the power of the machine, I'd like to go up to 90W, but from what I've read, the 90W tubes are huge and its not practical to fit them to our relatively small machines
I'm also thinking about buying one of those power meters, which seem to be $95 (USD) at the moment from some online stores
Hi Roger
Not all high power lasers have to be long but you need to keep an eye on the diameter to make sure it will fit. This 100 watt tube is 50mm shorter than my 60 watt tube.
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Kits-Of-1pcs-100W-Long-Lifetime-Laser-Tube-1-pcs-100W-Laser-Power-Supply-Warranty-6/321243_32225233743.html
This another in the family of tubes that I bought . If you want to make a technical enquiry, write to Gelly Dung sales02@mactron-tech.com. This direct email is not published so it may be courteous to mention that you got the contact via Russ Sadler. I'm sure that there is some sort of link with RECI tubes because their specs are so similar. From my experience they are a reliable company that are supplying a really high quality product.
Best wishes
Russ
Russ, I ordered the Cloudray tube tube you recommended and built clamps you designed and I am very happy. I am having one problem I'm hoping you can help me with. If I create a simple rectangle 20 by 20 mm and do a cut all is well, but if I change it to a scan, the scan starts 2mm early and goes 2mm late. It only fails on the horizontal scan. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for your help.
Hi Gerald
It sounds likr the solution id quite simple. It s a feature called Scanning Reverse Offset (or compensation). Take a look at this video for and explanation
czcams.com/video/DeCxeCrq0h4/video.html
This is using RDWorks but there is a similar setting in Lightburn. It is important to remember this is a lookup table system so you need to calibrate the reverse offet for EVERY different scanning speed you use
If this is not the issue then shout again and we will relook
Best wishes
Russ
@@SarbarMultimedia Russ, Thankyou again. After putting in the fix, all is working.
@@geraldbrost4179. Mycontributin was just a few wise words
Just remember anyone progessing towards expert status has made a lot of mistakes and I sure have lots of mistakes yet to come.. With your mistakes you have now started that joirney .Congratulations on sorting it out from a few wise words form me. YOU were the one that made it happen and YOU have now banked a huge chunk of knowledge and experience.
All best wishes for Christmas
Russ.
Hi Russ,I have a question for you. There seems to be 2 types of laser tubes, the kind that we have and the RECI type which seem to last a lot longer. The only difference that I can see, looking at the photos, is that ours has a cooling ring around the business end of the tube and the RECI does not. My question is, are they interchangeable? Could you if you were so inclined to, be able to change your tube for a RECI tube? With your intellectual pool of friend I thought you might be able to find out.Thank youBruce
Hi Bruce
The majority of "standard" laser tubes are based around a 50 to 56 mm diameter tubes where there are some fairly simple length rules you can use to determine the power output. 800mm=40 watts, 1000mm=50 watts, 1200mm=60 watts and 1600mm=80watts. These tubes are generally life rated at about 2000hours.
RECI tubes don't follow these rules because their tube design is based on much larger tube sizes of 80 mm for 75 to 120 watt tubes and 90mm for their top of the range 150watt tube. There is no simple rule for determining their power from the tube length although if you said 2/3 that of standard tubes you would be about right.
The life of a tube depends on several things, but mainly how much gas mix you can pack into the tube. If you have read any of my tech stuff about how laser tubes work you will understand the term "dissociation". This is how the gas mix degrades and eventually runs out of CO2. Increasing the tube size from 50 to 80mm allows them to get about twice as much gas in their tubes. That more than doubles the expected tube life because they rate their tubes very conservatively and specify sensible maximum drive currents. Another big difference is their use of gold inside the tubes. They coat the inside of the central ionization tube with an atomically thin layer of gold and also the electrodes. This significantly reduces the rate of dissociation and greatly extends tube life to about 10,000 hours.
If you can afford one, and your machine will take an 80mm tube, there is no different way that these tubes work. Provided you power supply will cope, the better mechanical design, performance and life, makes these tube the gold standard by which others are judged. Close behind are
EFR
en.bjefr.com/?page_id=2
Mactron
www.co2-lasers.com/co2-laser-tube/45-long-lifetime-co2-laser-tubes.html#.V48T8tSANBc
All will fit and work in your machine.
Hope this answers your question
Best regards
Russ
SarbarMultimedia I have a tube Reci and I burned the source of power. Try to buy one in my country for him and I only got a similar one that is actually for smaller diameter tubes. I placed it but the tube did not generate a laser light for anything powerful. Now I understand it must be because of the CO2 charge in my tube. Which is almost double.
carrighetti
Hi
My most recent video on high Voltage power supplies may help explain your problem. Recipient tubes start at about 100 watts so if you are trying to drive it with a 60 watt power supply then there is unlikely to be enough voltage generated to fire the tube. Ideally your tube and power supply should match ie 100 watt power supply for 100 watt tube. Your tube may not be dead. if there is no pink glow in you tube it may well be power supply issue. If your tube does have a pink glow but there is no laser power coming out then yes you have used up all the CO2 in the tube. This loss of power is not instant, it will get weaker slowly so you will know that the tube is dying.
Hope this helps
Best regards
Russ
Russ Sadler Thank you very much, I do not think it's the tube since it came working perfectly. I use your technique to cut each material so much that to what power it should cut it in a certain time and this was maintained until the day that the source of power of the tube was burned. I'm pretty sure I have not found the right source.
Hi
Send an email enquiry to Gelly Dung sales02@mactrom-tech.com for the power supply you require. A trusted source in China.
Best regards
Russ
Russ, now that you've had that tube and power supply upgraded for a while and have used it would you still recommend it? I'm considering buying it but I wanted to ask you this question before making the purchase
Its 2 years old now and still performing as new. It was half the cost of the machine but has been well worth it . Completely trouble-free and just in that mid power range where it is possible to use it for low power engraving but at the same time it has power enough to cut most thicknesses I need 10mm plywood and 12mm acrylic as you will have seen from the videos.
Best wishes
Russ
SarbarMultimedia Thank you Russ! Your service is top notch!!
Hi Russ have you got a link for the psu and tube still mate.
I bought the same size tube that performs exactly the same from Cloudray earlier this year It is a CR70
You will need an 80 watt power supply
www.cloudraylaser.com/products/35-70w-co2-laser-tube-upgraded-metal-head-cr-series?variant=33568306725004
www.cloudraylaser.com/collections/60-80w-power-supply/products/80w-co2-laser-power-supply-myjg-80b?variant=7601839964211
Best wishes
Russ
73 watts!! wow! by the time you are done tweaking it you may need a power meter with more range. I do have a couple questions. By the graph it appears the tube is still producing power and hasn't leveled out. Did the manufacturer provide a recommended maximum current that you stopped at? Is there a current limit adjustment on the power supply so that when you set 100% in the software it only outputs the manufacturers recommended maximum current or are you going to continue keeping a mental note of what percentage gives you maximum performance.
great initial performance. i don't think you could ask for it to be any better.
+2020tesla
You are right about the slope. It's still going up. That's their warranty headroom. A normal 60 watt tube would run at 22mA but even there it's a staggering output There is a 4000 hour life on this tube (and that s dropping back to 60 watts) but with the excess power at "normal running" plus the headroom that must exist above the 80% (26mA) max that they specify, this is a truly awesome tube. If you look at their website it looks like a small family run business where everyone cares because everyone is accountable. I'm sure they will get follow on business with tubes like this. The PSU inputs look as though they were designed for this controller. A generally silky smooth upgrade in about 3 hour plus an hour testing. The power didn't know what hit it!!!! I was having doubts myself but I have acquired absolute faith in Macken.
hello mr. ross i just bought the power suply 60 w with soufrance my problem I life in region tiere mande
and my tube did not start from 2 years ago that I risk losing it thanks in advance
Hi Marouane
I apologize because I do not fully understand your question. You have just bought a new 60W power supply but I did not understand about your tube. Is it 2 years old and not working now? Is there a pink beam in the tube?
Best wishes
Russ
think you think you so mutch ross you are my hero
Hi Russ, my tube just this minute arrived. No one has been in touch about VAT and import duty though?
+liam slavin
If there was something to pay the importing/courier company would have asked you for money before they delivered it. Lucky you!!
Regards
Russ
Hello Mr. Russ. I am going to be purchasing a 60 watt laser within the next few weeks and I have been reading that the tubes that come with the Chinese lasers go out pretty quick. Would you recommend that I purchase a new tube when I order my laser or would that be a bad idea?
There are a few certainties when you purchase a Chinese laser
First is that all the major expensive components such as the tube, HV power supply and digital controller will all be B grade. Ie main factory test failures that means the product cannot be warranted. In the case of the controller, the fault will be in a section of the product that you will never use so you will never know. The HV power supply the problem will be the response time specification. This will not cause cutting issues but may become apparent during high speed engraving, The tube....Hmmmmm. usually the biggest and most obvious issue.
Tubes fail the final test for many reasons and none are rectifiable because if the sealed nature of a tube. If a tube cannot be warranted by the manufacturer it will be sold a scrap for next to nothing. One particular company specializes in making money from these tubes by retesting them to make sure that they work "in some way", enough to fool the average technically naive Ebay buyer. They then relabel the tubes with a K H Laser sticker to make them look credible.
The 60 watt tube you plan to purchase will be such a tube. It will claim to be 60 watts but in reality that is a max test spec that you cannot use. In reality it will be a 1000mm long 50 watt tube ....but B grade. One cannot say exactly what sort of failure this tube was but from 6 years worth of experience and communications from all over the world there is a 90 % chance it will be almost junk. It may deliver 20 or 30 watts of poor quality power. You could be one of the lucky 10% where the tube only just failed final test and works quite well . It may deliver 45 to 50 watts and last 4 or 5 years. I would always assume your tube will be junk and that you should budget for an A grade replacement.. Do not search the internet for a low cost replacement because you will be replacing junk with junk. It is a jungle out there for such products. There is no such thing as a cheap A grade tube. A reliable source is Cloudray BUT be prepared for a shock. The new tube may cots $200 or less ( look seriously at a CR45) but you will find the courier shipping cost will double the price. Yes it is painful but is is a tube that will last 5 years or more and make your machine reliable and a real pleasure to use. In the overall scheme you will still have a very low cost piece of CNC equipment that now fulfils your dream.
If you can buy the same machine with a 50 watt tube option then pay less for the same machine knowing that you will have to replace the tube anyway. Always buy your machine using your credit card, even via PayPal because that gives you ultimate power. I will be happy to advise you when your machine arrives on how to go about negotiating a $150/$200 refund towards a new tube.
Best wishes
Russ
@@SarbarMultimedia Mr. Russ Thank you so much for your opinion. I really do appreciate your input. It means a lot that you responded. I would love a mentor if you would be interested in someone bothering you from time to time with questions. I try to answer my own questions first by looking on your channel and the internet but I would love to have someone that I can go to. I will look into the Cloudray tub or the CR45 tube and pick. Thank you for that information.
I do believe the thin wire is to bleed off static electricity into your (hopefully grounded) water cooling.
I'm afraid to install the p.suply with the laser tube because it is too expensive in my country.
Hi Marouane
Your logic is wrong. If you never use the new power supply your tube is dead anyway. Be brave. I assume your original power supply is dead. A new power supply will not damage your tube. Your tube is like a light bulb. if there is electricity it will work. If its broken then no amount of electricity will make it work. The power supply will not damage the tube and the tube will not damage the power supply.
All glass laser tubes have a life. 2 years is good. You will know when it's beginning to die, the power will disappear over several weeks or months. It will not just stop.
Best wishes
Russ
I'm about to push the purchase button on a machine from the same vendor as you. Given you upgraded from 40W to 60W, I am thinking of starting with 80W. I will be mostly cutting and engraving acrylic, but on occasion may do cards for my wife. Any obvious down sides?
+John Grabner
Hi John
The chances are that your 80watt purchase will turn out to be a 60 watt tube with an 80 watt power supply. An 80 watt tube will be about 1600mm long, so I would enquire about the tube length before you buy. Add about 175mm to the tube length and then check if 1775mm will it fit in the case dimensions for the machine? If not will there be an extension box supplied? I advise this because depending on how thick the acrylic is you will be working with (it will easily do 6mm thick ) and the work table size you need, It may be a more cost effective route to follow my path. The tubes supplied with the machine are generally (not always)of dubious quality and certainly over speciified, I finished up paying about £500 for my upgrade to a good quality system, purchasing a 60 watt system that actually delivers over 70 watts.I suspect the difference between a 50 and and 80 watt machine is more than £500
These machines are called engraving machines because you do not need huge watts to engrave. They will cut but they are not marketed as cutting machines. For paper and card I run my new tube at a mere whisper, it's only just firing.....works fine because I do a lot of card work for my wife as well.
The only other advice is make sure you use your CREDIT CARD to purchase. There are strict financial regulations in place for credit transactions and should you have serious problems with your purchase you stand a better chance of getting your money back via your card provider than from Ebay or PayPal.
Good luck and I'm sure you will enjoy your new tech toy.
Regards
Russ
Thank you for the advice. I just did the purchase of a 60W labeled as a 80W directly from the China supplier. The price difference was so minor between the 60W and the 80W. So minor, I now hope its not a 80W sticker on the 40W tube. I will let you know when it arrives.
Anyhow, It would be great is you did a video focused on new owners of this laser and enumerate in priority order things they should do and what video in your series they should review for these actions. Your series is a treasure trove, but there so many videos.
Based on your video series, my guess at the todo list is include (please comment):
1- Make bed flat. If I recall, you saw only a new mm. Given it was not perfect, it can easily be more out of alignment.
2- Make sure lens is oriented in correct direction. If I recall, yours where in backwards.
3- Align laser path, including perpendicular to table bed.
4- install current meter on the low voltage end of the tube. This is Critical to prevent premature aging of the tube by running it at the advertised level. Sounds like a cheap Radio shack multi-meter will be adequate.
5- purchase one of those power devices so I know what power I actual have. This also gives a reference for when the tube degrades.
6- get a bigger exhaust fan
7- use my compressor rather then their noisy air supply. By the way, what air pressure do you set at the lens?
8- Their unit now comes with a water chiller. So just add distilled water.
9- Run a set of reference burn test (power, speed and air pressure), both for reference when programming the machine and to have as a comparison for the future.
Did I miss anything?
I don't see you wearing safety goggle when you do mirror and lens alignment or verifying power. Are the warnings in the manual exaggerates or did I miss something? I asked because as a kid I damaged my ears with loud disco music, so can't afford to be blind too.
In one of your videos, you said wait xxx minutes before touching the high voltage end of the tube. Is there a procedure to ground the high voltage end before getting close to it after xx minutes? I'm always scared risking my life on parasitic losses to discharge something that can kill me. I have a vague recollection of a TV repair man doing something like this when my old fashion CRT TV was being fixed when I was a child.
I was telling my kids, you must be a retired engineer since you are so logical and systematic. A real pleasure to watch.
Are you?
by running a water chiller instead of room temp water, will it make the laser last longer? IF so, what is an optimal temp the water should be at?
Hi
different tube makers recommend different max running temperatures. Basically the better the tube the higher the permitted temperature. RECI along with a few others recommend a maximum of 40C. The cheaper tubes tend to be about 25C. There are several factors that can shorten tube life, temperature being one of them. These machines are sold primarily for ENGRAVING with cuttin as an afterthought. Cutting requires high power whereas engraving does not. There is a maximum current that is allowable to attain the life specification for your tube. Cheap tubes claim 1000 to 2000 hours. If you continually run at or near the makers rated current and temperature, you should get the 1000 hours. Exceed that current and the tube temperature starts to exceed what the gas in the tube can transmit to the water jacket. Under this excess current condition there are other things going on in the tube that will dramatically shorten the life of the tube. On the other hand if you stay well below the makers current rating, not only will you be producing less heat for the cooling water to deal with but your tube will last longer. In cheap tubes there is another factor that could come into play and that is the integrity of the epoxy seals that bond the mirrors onto the tube and seal the partial vacuum inside the tube. Over time (maybe 2 years) some outside air can get sucked into the tube and contaminate the mix, so shelf life/quality is another issue. Don't spend lots of cash on a chiller unless you are in a subtropical climate Temperature is one small factor in determining tube life and depending on your geographic position and machine siting there may be much more cost effective ways of keeping your water cool
Best regards
Russ
well one thing Wisconsin has never been accused of is being tropical. I thought of throwing either and ice pack or ice cubes in with the water to cool it down. and maybe put a temp sensor on the laser to keep and eye on it. there's another video of someone that installed one on his laser machine like ours.
Hi
Your air temperatures are a little different to that which I experience just north of London. if you look at czcams.com/video/g5k6YhNqfSw/video.html
You will see that I have a closed water system with about 2 gallons of distilled water. The flow rate through the tube is about2 litres/sec I don.t use my machine for long periods and never find I need additional cooling. However, I do have a plan B and a plan C. You will see that I mention a copper cooling coil that I made to drop over my pump. I have tested the machine during our "hot" 28C summer days and when running the machine for a 2 hour period at max power I could get the temperature up to almost 40C and resorted to plan B I connected my cooling coil with a hosepipe to the domestic tap water supply and regulated the flow through the coil to about 2 or 3 litres /minute. The water supply was at 14C and within n15 minutes my water was back to 23C was it was stable. It is VERY rare that I need to use my coil. Plan C was if I needed more that temporary cooling. Outside my workshop I have a rainwater collecting tank (40 gallons or more) and the plan was to add another submersible pump to this tank to drive water through my coil ie to use this tank as an external heatsink/radiator. Never been needed.
Also czcams.com/video/xDZmuxq5BEM/video.html shows how I have monitord temperature.
Best regards
Russ
I went to their web-site and found 2 different 60 watt laser tube with power supply combination. How did you pick the laser tube that you bought?
+gene vandermolen
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1200MM-60W-Laser-Tube-60W-co2-Laser-Power-Supply/321243_1109607209.html is what I bought. There are two 60 watt tubes that they sell. I think the other that you saw was their long life 8000hour tube with a gold catalyst film inside the ionisation tube, it uses the same power supply. A quick email enquiry to Gelly Dung (sales02@mactron-tech.com ) will get all your questions answered.
Regards
Russ
Dear Sir. Love the videos. Really informative and helpful. But could you please tell me where you bought you laser and the new tube from ... Many thanks .Terry
+slinger1991
Hi Terry
This is the machine I bought about 10 months ago (it's now about £200 cheaper!!!!)
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350B-50W-CO2-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-Auxiliary-Rotary-Device-0-60000mm-/111694615353?hash=item1a01849339
As you will have seen from my videos that document my journey, trying to tame and train my little Chinese Dragon, it's been "interesting". However, I knew that there would be zero support and a few problems before I bought the machine. That was part of the fun for me. Without the struggle to extract every last milliwatt of power from the system, I would not have been forced into learning so much about the technology (and there would have been very few videos).
I purchased my new tube from
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1200MM-60W-Laser-Tube-60W-co2-Laser-Power-Supply/321243_1109607209.html
You cannot get to Mactron directly normally to ask technical questions you have to enquire via AliExpress. However, I did get a very good technical contact into Mactron sales that was able to answer all my technical questions. Gelly Dung is the contact and the email address is sales02@mactron-tech.com. This email is not publicly available so it would be courteous to mention that you obtained the contact from Russ Sadler.
As I have often mentioned, these Chinese machines are all over-specified. My 50 watt machine was fitted with a 40 watt tube and 50 watt power supply but the lower cost of this machine did eventually allow me to upgrade to a proper 60 watt system with the money I saved by not buying a 60 watt machine originally (that would have only been 50 watt).
The final piece of advice is to buy this with your CREDIT CARD. Paypal and Ebay guarantees are useless but your card company is bound by a whole raft of financial legislation which gives you a fighting chance at getting a full refund if things go seriously wrong.
Good luck and best regards
Russ
+SarbarMultimedia
Dear Russ
Thank you for replying to my question and offering the advise of where to purchase the laser cutter. I am new to this exciting hobby/business opportunity and am very grateful to you for you help and the fantastic videos on CZcams. I am saving very hard to not only purchase the cutter but also a workshop to house all the stuff needed to use it safely and securely. I look foward to more great videos and many thanks once again.. Truly inspiring to a novice in this
+slinger1991
Hi Terry
Thanks for your appreciation. This is a record of me learning....and I continue to do so. I have made several mistakes along the way so I hope when you get your machine you can benefit and stay away from the man traps!! I'm having the most fun ever and despite the frustration of a far-from-perfect machine, I enjoyed sorting it out and it has forced me to learn so much more about the technology. It reminds me of all the effort I put into my fist car, lowering the suspension, new carburettors and exhaust etc etc. I'm sure you will get great pleasure from using and tweaking you new toy
Best regards
Russ
I went to the mactron website but I don't see these tubs listed anywhere. Could you share a link?
Hi Kent
My tube was an MTS-T70.
www.co2-lasers.com/co2-laser-tube/27-co2-laser-tube.html#.XQVMTVVKhhF
I'm not sure that Mactron are selling this anymore but it is worth an inquiry.
If this fails then I will recommend this CR70 tube instead. This looks like a Cloudray own brand but I happen to know it is an A grade product manufactured by SPT and rebadged for Cloudray.. This is definitely my next tube whenever I need a replacement. I have seen performance graphs from several that guys have bought and they all delivering about 80 watts at the 22mA max allowable normal running current
www.cloudraylaser.com/products/35-45w-720mm-co2-laser-upgraded-metal-head-tube-cr35?variant=12782294270003
Best wishes
Russ
@@SarbarMultimedia Interesting. I thought it was a 60 watt tube. It's actually a 70 watt, by the model number...
@@jackwilborn2353
Yep, 70 watts and 5 years later it's still performing "as new"..The Cloudray CR70 on my other machine is even better and that can deliver 80 watts.
Best wishes
Russ
What brand tube did you buy ?
This is what I bought
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1200MM-60W-Laser-Tube-60W-co2-Laser-Power-Supply/321243_1109607209.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.44fb50edcdP0xt
Mactron will also supply other good quality tubes. The best is recognized to be Reci but to me that is an overrated and overpriced product. EFR, SPT, Yongli are equally good at 2/3 the price or less.
Best wishes
Russ
Excellent sir
Hello Russ I have Some problems with connecting my PSU and Ruida controller. Can you get me Some pictures of your wirement? Would help me a lot.
Hi Christ
Sadly You Tube has ceased their private message system. Add a comment with your email. I will be auto copied to my gmail. I will then immediately remove your comment/email from public view.
Best wishes
Russ
I bought my laser cutter from the same supplier as you and have found you videos invaluable. I would like to upgrade my tube too. When you ordered yours, did it come direct to your house or would I need to collect from a port/customs warehouse. Also, how are the VAT and import charges paid. I appreciate your help as I am sure all your viewers do. Thanks, Liam
+liam slavin
Hi Liam
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1200MM-60W-Laser-Tube-60W-co2-Laser-Power-Supply/321243_1109607209.html
It comes via DHL (which when you look, doubles the price) When DHL get it to UK they will send you notification via email that your parcel is ready for delivery PROVIDED you pay them the import duty and VAT that is due (about £110), you do this via the DHL website. The super tube performance was worth it and it was only about 4 days in transit, delivered right to your door.
You normally have to contact Mactron via AliExpress but I have a contact Gelly Dung, in the technical sales at Mactron who will be able to answer any questions you may have. The email is sales02@mactron-tech.com.
Good luck
Best regards
Russ
Thank you Russ, you're a star. I will contact them this week and hopefully get one ordered. Thanks again.
Liam
what is the name of the company you purchased the system and the laser from ?
+John Grabner
Hi John
The original machine purchase was
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350B-50W-CO2-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-Auxiliary-Rotary-Device-0-60000mm-/111694615353?hash=item1a01849339
and the 60 watt upgrade kit was from
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1200MM-60W-Laser-Tube-60W-co2-Laser-Power-Supply/321243_1109607209.html
You can contact Gelly Dung directly by email if you need more information. They are very quick, honest and helpful but this is not a published contact so out of courtesy mention Russ Sadler gave you the address ....... sales02@mactron-tech.com
Good luck
Russ
I have now watched most of your videos. I must say I am very impressed with the systematic approach you have taken in analyzing and modifying your machine.
You have done a great job giving an objective view of the quality of the hardware and software. While not perfect, it appears quite acceptable. Is this your view? I normally choose the devil I know over the unknown. Your series appear to be the only objective review of the performance of a Chinese laser.
Before selecting this machine and it's software, did you do a comparison of other Chinese machines available? If so, could you share.
On various public bulletin boards I see lots of comments that Aluminum lasers are better than Glass tubes. Do you have any insight on this topic?
I live in California. Your link appears to be for someone importing this product to the UK and selling there. Can you give me the Chinese name or the manufactures name of the laser machine so that I can look them up on Alibaba.
You have produced a very impressive set of videos. Thank you very much.
Regards,
John
+John Grabner
Hi John
Although I spent lots of hours researching before I bought, I was still naive at the point of purchase. I was putting too much faith in the specifications being true. I should have been wearing my ultra sceptic hat. I looked hard at the main and important mechanical features of the machine. Particularly the main slideway bearings, There are many "unusual " designs, but if these are primarily engraving machines then the Xaxis slide is going to be heavily worked. Hence I chose a conventional HiWin type slide system. I then looked at the mirror mount system and in particular the software /drive controller to make sure it was a stand-alone machine or a network machine that could in particular work with my favoured cad DXF files.. This machine ticked all those boxes and looked like a well engineered platform to adapt if so required. Having looked at others in retrospect I would choose the same again. It was excellent value for money even though the tube was not as promised!!
Look carefully at where it's shipped from. If it's direct from China you could well have to add on import duty and taxes. If it's aleady in the USA then it will only be freight, but even then I see you can get "free" shipping with some suppliers. These ebay sellers are all agents for factories back in China, so there will be no service support if things are not what you expect. This is virtually the same package as mine which I bought from a UK seller (who is actually based in China!!)
www.ebay.com/itm/High-Precise-50W-CO2-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-Engraver-Cutter-USB-Port-CE/200640422116?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35695%26meid%3D8f5f5485e7894e68b208dd9919571119%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D370532760989
If you look at the photos, front right of the work area you will see a big silver knob. This is a manual table height adjuster. Mine is motorised and it would not take much to add a motor yourself (a nice little project). The great thing about this machine (this design is from shenhuilaser.en.alibaba.com/) is the decent bearing rails. The engineering is pretty good but I've made all sorts of detail changes to make my lazy life easier. If you look at the photos you will soon see the similarities (switch positions etc). Forget the warranty, I would expect it to be worthless, if this is the machine for you, just seek out the best deal and make sure you buy it with your CREDIT CARD. If things go wrong you will stand a much better chance of getting your money back from your card provider than from any Ebay or PayPal protection. Keep screen shots of what you are buying and any communications you have with the vendor. If things go wrong you will need this evidence for your card provider. All these machines are sold as 50 watt machines but in reality they are 40 watt tubes with a 50 watt power supply. The machine case is not wide enough to take a 50 watt tube. Know this from the start and you will not be disappointed. Take your rose tinted glasses off and look at specs carefully. Don't let this negativity put you off buying, I've had the most fun ever playing with this little Chinese dragon. This design is one of the best for it's price and is a a reasonably engineered platform to start building from. After 9 months of learning and modifications, I have got my machine to the ideal design (for me) and have now got rid of the inconsistent cheap 40 watt laser tube and upgraded to a super 60 watt system. It's now like owning a Ferrari!!!
I have no knowledge of aluminium lasers . If they are more expensive than glass you must assess the real value to you. As a hoob machine on which you are learning it may be good to buy cheap to get experience and when you know what you really want, spend the money you saved initially on an upgrade
Hope this helps
Best regards
Russ
Hi, can you give me more details about where you have bought PSU and Tube?
Hi Chakis
This is the tube and power supply that I bought. It was relatively cheap .....until you see what DHL chareg for delivery!!!! On top of that there will be VAT to pay to DHL before they will deliver. However, the pain was worth it it. Here I am more than 18 months on and the tube is still performing as new. I have been VERY pleased with it.
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1200MM-60W-Laser-Tube-60W-co2-Laser-Power-Supply/321243_1109607209.html?spm=2114.12010608.0.0.73938931vD9WLR
All best wishes
Russ
ps Do not be tempted by Ebay and Amazon Marketplace low prices. They will almost certainly be B grade tubes .
thanks for the reply. now I have blown my 40w tube (aka 50w) and looking for the replacement. By saying B grade - you mean they are bad quality or somehow fixed/refilled tubes?
There is a brand of tube K H Laser that are truly reject tubes from main tube manufacturers. They are taken into the KeHui factory, retested to make sure that they work "in some way" enough to fool the average naive E bay buyer, relabeling them to give them credibility and then fitting them to their machines for selling to Ebay buyers via PRIVATE sellers. This breaks the accountability trail. I have seen several of these relabeled tubes myself and they usually have the KH Laser label covering the original makers label. K H have recently started selling these relabeled tubes on Ebay. Other tubes you buy there may not be labelled but from all the correspondence I get, there is a pattern of early failures on lots of unbranded E bay tubes also. Having suffered twice myself, all I'm saying is that I have lots of information that allows me to see patterns that individuals cannot see. Beware.
Best wishes
Russ
actually the one that blown out on my blue machine is KH Laser labeled. It lasted me for about 8 months of lifetime, maybe mostly engraving each day for about 1 hour lets say. So its only around 250 hours of work... Also I see you have new tube clamps? Are they good? Maybe you remember where have you bought these?
They are definitely reject tubes but but how close to just failing and how close to rubbish is really a lottery. I know of many tubes dying within just a few minutes or hours of power up. Youy * months is one of the longer lives I have come across. Those longer lives are usually the 80 watt and above tubes that have come from EFR originally.
Yes its tempting and easy to buy from Ebay and I'm not saying don't, I'm, just giving you the facts so that you can make your own risk assessment. I paid a silly price for my 60 watt upgrade but my goodness it was worth the pain.
All best wishes
Russ
I may be mistaken but didn´t the connector on the tube go on the wrong side of the crimp connector at 12:08?
Looks like it is between the plastic cover and the connector rather than IN the connector?
Love your videos though. :)
Hi Richard
You were not mistaken. The electrode pin is made from a strong but brittle material (may be tungsten) and will NOT solder. I did try to find a connector in my selection of crimp fittings that would slide nicely onto the pin and failed. Petrified of breaking the pin I did exactly what you thought you saw. The idea being to get a good positive connection (with some compliance) without stressing the pin. The normal way the Chinese achieve this connection is just to wrap the wire around the pin...... that was just too crude. There is so little current flowing, no more than 30mA, even in a 150 watt tube that the resistance of a line contact is negligible.
Best wishes
Russ
Ah, so it was meant to go on the "wrong" side of the connector!
I suspected that it might not have been a mistake as you are very meticulous with what you do. :)
Regarding the seller you bought it from, I was just a bit worried since I read another comment from someone who
received a "bad" quality tube and I would like to minimize those things when buying.
I just sold my old Trotec Speedy so at the moment I am trying to find the best possible (chinese) replacement laser machine.
I am currently considering this one which claims to have a Reci tube.
www.ebay.com/itm/DSP-100W-Laser-Engraver-Cutter-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-Linear-Guide-USA-Ship/222857190712?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
The seller have a reference in my country who is happy with his machine, the only difference is that he has the non dsp version with only bed up/down and power control on the machine.
I feel that it would be better with the dsp version since the cheaper version can´t handle different cutting/engraving parameters in one program so one need to post multiple files in that case.
Any opinion about the dsp vs non dsp version?
Here is a link for the non-dsp machine.
www.ebay.com/itm/RECI-100W-CO2-Laser-Cutting-Machine-Laser-Cutter-Engraver-1000-600MM-EU-Ship-/192313979360?hash=item2cc6ce71e0
Best regards
Hi Ricard
I detect a note of cynicism in your words already, "claims to have a Reci tube"
As a high value tube, there are fakes out there but there is a way to verify a genuine Reci
see www.recilaser.com/en/index.php?m=&c=Index&a=show&catid=13&id=34
Sadly this is not quite what is claimed for the tube either. In reality it is an 80 watt tube.
see www.recilaser.com/en/index.php?m=&c=Index&a=show&catid=7&id=66
If you look at section 2 , I will put into plain English what it says.
Tube has been tested to 29mA and will output 100 watts. The normal running current must never exceed 27mA (90 watts output) or you will invalidate any warranty. BUT to achieve the claimed life of the tube (not specified you note) we recommend you do not exceed 25mA (about 80 watts).
That seems like Chinese lies even from a reputable company.
I would choose the DSP version over the non-dsp. There is an alternative software in bete form for you to download and try that promises to be better than RDWorks when its completed. So something to keep an eye on. It's called LIghtburn
Everything about the spec looks reasonable. You are getting an autofocus system and rotary device in the price. The rotary is OK for parallel objects but not suitable for tapered beakers and tumblers but you may be able to fiddle that by blocking one end up. I have auto focus on one of my machines and in honesty, in a year and a half I have never found an in-process application for it ...... and it's slow. I can change focus in 10th of the time manually.
Best wishes
Russ
This is great information and great to have someone sitting on this much info with this quick response rate so thank you so much for this.
Hi Russ! I bought a laser machine 50 watts 2 months ago! I then discovered your videos on youtube and I have learned quite alot with you :) Thank you for sharing your experiences and videos!
But about a week ago, my laser machine stopped cutting and it isn't burning on first position -> when laser emits to first mirror. I have contacted the manufacturer but they think that my problem is in the mirror alignments. With your experience, what do you think the problem could be? The laser tube lights up when I pulse, but it does not burn the paper I put in front of the first mirror (first position). If you could help me out I am very thankful. Meanwhile, I will keep on sending emails to the manufacturer...
Thank you
Hi Amanda
I have had several correspondents with the same sort of issue, either rapid loss of power or no power at all.
I suspect you will have trouble dealing with your seller to get any satisfaction or refund or replacement tube. If there is no power coming out of your tube before mirror 1 then it's bad news because as you say, the tube still lights up.
Please forgive me but I am going to give a brief technical explanation (in simple language) of how the tube works and then you will understand what is wrong with your tube
Your sealed laser tube contains a mix of 3 main gases. Each of those gasses performs a specific task. The first and most important gas is Nitrogen (about 10%). Like all gases it is an insulator ie it does not conduct electricity. However, if you subject it to high voltage (in this case about 25,000 volts DC) it can be excited into a state of IONIZATION where its atoms vibrate so much that they shed a few electrons. These electrons are then current carriers and all of a sudden a non-conductive gas becomes a VERY efficient conductor.
This current flow causes the nitrogen to heat up (a bit like a heating element in a fire) and this current has to be controlled by the power supply to very low milliamp levels. This is where the second gas comes into play. Helium (80% of the mix), is an excellent conductor of heat and it’s sole function is to carry the heat from this process out to the water jacket. The more the current the nitrogen carries the more excited the nitrogen atoms become but the more heat they generate. There is a limit to the heat carrying capability of the helium and this is the main factor that sets the max running current for your tube.
You will hopefully notice that I have not mentioned anything about CO2 and lasing yet. That is because this ionization process I have described so far, works REGARDLESS of the presence of CO2 . So, your tube will light up even if it's DEAD.
Okay let’s add the third gas, carbon dioxide (about 10% of the mix). I like to imagine this molecule as extremely lazy, it just wants to slob out on the sun lounger. However it can be persuaded to jump up when a football from the neighbour’s garden crashes into it. The excited nitrogen atoms occasionally crash into the CO2 molecule and persuade it to get a bit excited itself. However this state of excitement in the CO2 molecule is VERY temporary , it just wants to get back to the lounger. It calms down again by giving out its extra energy as a photon of light. All of these photons are collected and mechanically amplified by internal mirrors inside the tube and eventually appear out the end of the tube as a coherent beam of energy.
This simplified explanation of how the tube works will help us to dissect your problem.
1) You say that your tube still works lights up. This automatically tells me that your power supply is working. If you can see a nice pink beam then the ionization process is working. Do you have an ammeter fitted to your machine? I suspect no. I found out that is an essential instrument to help manage your tube. ( take a look at czcams.com/video/xDZmuxq5BEM/video.html )
2) If you do not have an ammeter fitted to your machine and/or are unaware of what the limiting current is for your tube, you may have unknowingly “over-driven” your tube with excess current. Excess current or even running at the recommended limit will see the nitrogen atoms imparting serious kicks to the CO2 molecule. These kicks can have enough energy to split one of the oxygen atoms from the molecule resulting in a free oxygen atom and a CARBON MONOXIDE molecule. Neither of these gasses are lasing gasses. This dissociation process is slow and a natural way that your tube dies eventually and as you can see it looks dependent on how you use the tube. If you “over-drive” the tube this process will happen quickly. So eventually the CO2 in the mix gets less and less and no matter how much %power you dial in you will not be able to get much or any power out. I suspect this is what has happened to your tube
The fact that your seller is telling you it's a mirror setting problem means he knows nothing about these machines or, if he does, he hopes YOU know nothing and is keen to make this YOUR issue.
In conclusion I anticipate your power supply is still OK but your tube is depleted of CO2. All CO2 tubes are considered as consumable and your seller will do anything to tell you it's not his fault. However there may be a way to put pressure on your seller.
Did you buy this machine with your credit card? If yes then there is a good chance you will be able to complain to your credit card company about your purchase. The credit card companies are bound by lots of legislation that will give you protection against fraud or faulty goods. The first thing I will advise is to measure the length of your tube. My guess is that it will be about 800mm long. If so then you have been sold a 40 watt tube and not a 50 watt tube as advertised and this is a very strong fraudulent selling point . Normal CO2 tubes are consumable, yes, but even the cheapest have an expected life of between 1000 and 2000 hours. My collected information from many correspondents seems to indicate that these ebay machines are fitted with B grade tubes that do work but not very well or for very long. Sadly you are another that I can add to that list. You might like to put these issues to your seller with the threat of contacting your credit card company. He may give in easily if he realizes you know what you are talking about and offer you some sort of refund.
I'm sorry this is bad news but I hope you may be able to get up and running soon. I realize this may be very disappointing for you and that it may be a shock to have to replace your tube so soon.
I will be happy to advise further if you have to buy a new tube or there are things you don't understand.
Good luck
Best regards
Russ
Hi Russ! Thank you very much for your time and great explanation! I really appreciate it! I really liked your explantion with the gases (I will have to read it again a 3rd time) but I understood the basic idea!
I don't have an ammeter to measure but I might have over-drived my laser machine... The laser tube measures 800mm (like you mentioned it probably is a 40Watt laser tube) and I have been using 85% of power to cut 6mm acrylic.... I was pretty impressed with the machine, it was doing a wonderful job, but it only worked for 2 months :(
I paid with credit card, I will have to contact them and see what is possible to do in this case....
I will wait to see what the manufacturer does to solve my problem, if they do...
I am thinking though, I might have to upgrade my machine for a laser tube with 60watts, because the type of work I want to do is cutting 6mm acrylic...
Thank you again for your help and I really am impressed with your work and your explanations :) I will probably need your help again and will contact you :)
Thank you
Hi Amanda
It's pretty certain that you have hastened the death of your tube by over driving it but don't admit that to anyone. Just say that when you bought the machine you had advice to stay below 60% power (about 19mA current) and you have stuck by that rule. However I would have expected a longer life even with the abuse you have given it.
If you make a claim via your card company play on the fraudulent advert. Look at these laser tube specifications and you will see that a 50 watt tube should be 1000mm long . You definitely have been sold a 40watt tube.
www.cncoletech.com/Laser%20tuber%20standard.html
On this site there are LOTS of 50 watt tubes for sale . ALL are 1000mm long
www.alibaba.com/showroom/50-watt-co2-laser-tube.html
There is a 3 part video about understanding your laser tube at czcams.com/video/6onXMU08GzQ/video.html
This is what I upgraded my machine with
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/60W-CO2-Laser-Tube-60W-CO2-Laser-Power-Supply/321243_990434442.html
The products are excellent value and quality but the shipping cost is ridiculous. However it did arrive within 4 days.
Best regards
Russ
Thank you Russ!!
The shipping on that is as much as the tube AND it is listed as a dual lot but a comment below said it is a single lot on the same page. Almost 700 dollars to have it arrive at my door. ouch!
hello mr. ross i just installed the power suppler
when I pulse the tube s'Allume me the laser does not go out please help me to solve this problem
Did you receive my email?
Russ
yes mr. ross thik you
hi ross i just cleaned up the laser tube with two tap water and thenand I put in the place of distilled water the tube works
thank you for helping me god protect you
Ciao, una curiosità sul raffreddamento, suppongo che la temperatura dell'acqua non deve superare 30 gradi, secondo te si potrebbe usare liquido per raffreddamento CPU dei PC e radiatori in rame o alluminio? grazie.
Ciao Michele
La più importante è necessario considerare per iniziare è la vostra temperatura ambiente estiva. Se si tratta di 28C o più, quindi nessuna quantità di ventilatori e radiatori manterrà il vostro tubo fresco a meno che non si sta spruzzando acqua a portata di radiatori per produrre il raffreddamento .E evaporazione dipende anche se la macchina è situata e quanto si prevede di utilizzare la macchina. Se è solo un hobby macchina e si lavora durante il giorno, allora si può essere OK con radiatori. Se il vostro laboratorio è ha una sezione ombreggiata al di fuori quindi vorrei valutare l'ipotesi di un collettore di acqua piovana (200 litri?) In quella zona ombreggiata, Se guardate la mia recensione 4 mesi czcams.com/video/g5k6YhNqfSw/video.html si vedrà una bobina di rame che ho posto intorno al mio pompa nel serbatoio. Se ho bisogno di posso passare l'acqua del rubinetto fredda attraverso di essa, perché qui nel Regno Unito l'acqua del rubinetto non è mai più calda di 16C Si richiede solo un flusso di 2litres / min per trascinare rapidamente la temperatura verso il basso. Tuttavia, se si dispone di un grande serbatoio di acqua esterno che rimanere in giro da 20 a 22 C poi mettere un'altra pompa stagno in quel serbatoio e far circolare l'acqua fredda attraverso la bobina. Se questo non è possibile perché non è possibile sito un serbatoio esterno poi un altro sistema di raffreddamento redditizio è quello di acquistare un buon mercato piccolo congelatore pre-posseduto petto e mettere un serbatoio all'interno di questo. Aggiungere un relè di temperatura (www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220V-Digital-LCD-Display-Temp-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-Relay-w-Sensor-/162094978414?hash=item25bd9d156e:g:MyoAAOSwnFZXVVYB
Per spegnere il congelatore se la temperatura dell'acqua scende al di sotto 5C e rilasciare la pompa di circolazione nel serbatoio freezer. Durante la notte l'acqua; fresco a costi molto bassi e durante il giorno si avrà un dissipatore di calore negativo per aiutare a mantenere il vostro carro armato fresco. refrigeratori industriali sono costosi da acquistare e il raffreddamento istantaneo è costoso per creare.
Infine molte persone semplicemente riempire bottiglie di plastica con acqua e tenerli in freezer. Il li cadere nel loro serbatoio di come e quando richiesto.
Spero che questo può dare un paio di idee.
I migliori saluti
Russ
Grazie Russ, io ho un serbatoio di 30 litri e una pompa che mi garantisce 6 litri/minuto, vorrei usare una bobbina di rame come la tua (un po più piccola) dove far passare l'acqua che esce dal tubo ma ho paura che il rame può essere un problema per l'elettricità. Io uso acqua demineralizzata e non vorrei collegarci l'acqua del rubinetto. Io lo uso per lavoro, ma nel mio laboratorio, la temperatura dell'acqua nel serbatoio è di circa 23 gradi. Per questo vorrei usare la bobbina di rame come parte dell'impianto principale, che però viene raffreddata con un ventilatore professionale. cosa ne pensi? grazie!
Ciao Michele.
Che potere è la vostra macchina laser?
Se si dispone di un serbatoio da 30 litri per la vostra macchina, che è enorme (circa 150litres). You tube non sarà morire o seriamente perdere il potere se si esegue fino a 35C. Ma Assumiamo che il vostro soggiorno a 30C. Per riscaldare la vostra 150 litri di acqua dal 23 al 30 C sarà necessario un apporto di calore continuo di circa 25 watt per 12 ore !!! E che sta assumendo l'assenza di perdite di radiazioni. Sei certo bisogno di raffreddamento supplementare? Qual è il tuo carro armato fatto da? Può stare in un angolo? Non riesco a immaginare che sarà necessario serpentine di raffreddamento a tutti? Se si ha realmente bisogno, penso che una ventola che soffia aria sulla parte esterna del vostro carro armato è il più complesso che è necessario andare a ... ..using vostro carro armato, come è proprio del radiatore.
Inoltre, si può avere una pompa d'acqua in grado di fornire 6 litri al minuto senza carico resistenza o la testa. Ma le dimensioni del foro attraverso di ingresso e di tubi di scarico del tubo laser stesso determinerà quale fluire otterrete attraverso il vostro tubo. La maggior parte dei tubi saranno felici con circa 2 litri al minuto. Se si avvia l'aumento della pressione della pompa per forzare più acqua attraverso, si corre il rischio di produrre bolle di cavitazione all'interno del tubo
I migliori saluti
Russ
Thanks for the answer, I want as much as possible to keep cool the tube, between 20 to 30 degrees maximum, probably he will work for eight hours continuously. The laser tube should work around 50W of up to 60W. My water pump pushes up to 6 liters / minute, but I checked the output of the tube it moves about 2 liters / minute, then ok.
But I would like to keep as much as possible a maximum temperature of 25 degrees also fixed in the summer and I would like to put a copper coil from about 60 cm rolled (8mm inner diameter) that receive cold air to cool the water that comes out of the tube.
Hi Michele.
There will be no problem putting an air cooled copper coil in the return line to your tank Your target of 25C is good because it just gives the helium in the tube a much easier job to control the heat flow and stop the nitrogen getting over energetic, which could cause a higher dissociation rate. It will help give you good tube life. I suspect the warranty on you tube does cover you for running up to 40C, but giving your tube an easy life is good.
Best regards
Russ
Hi Russ, Can I have a copy of the diagram? Thank you
Also the link of where you purchased your tube and power supply. Thank you again
Hi
No problem except I need your email. Attach it to another comment and I will reply and also delete your comment from public view.
Best wishes
Russ
how much did it cost you and how long did it take to receive (from payment/order to delivery) Russ?
keep up the great work mate.
+Johny English
Hi Johny
If you look at the AliExpress website you can see exactly in US$ but for UK it was about £450 PLUS £111 import tax and VAT. Ordered 19th Feb They then wrote to enquire what controller I was using. Shipped 21 Feb Delivered 24th Feb
Pretty good service??? Very impressed with the Mactron from start to finish.
Russ
SarbarMultimedia thanx mate, appreciated... see u r a night owl like me :) nite.
+SarbarMultimedia Hello, I'm new to your videos and they are very exciting. Can you tell me how much was the shipping cost of this tube to UK? And whole machine?
+thePavuk
If you look at the AliExpress website you can see exactly what the shipping cost is in US$ but for UK it was about £250 for the tube and PSU , then £200 for DHL courier PLUS £111 import tax and VAT. Ordered 19th Feb They then wrote to enquire what controller I was using. Shipped 21 Feb Delivered 24th Feb Excellewnt service all round.
+SarbarMultimedia Thank you. I was looking everywhere just not on aliexpress. It's a pitty that shipping + vat cost in some cases more that product.
My tube is 1250mm? Have I got the wrong one?
+liam slavin
HI Liam
Don't panic. 1200mm is a nominal dimension to identify a 60 watt tube. Decent quality water jackets at each end along with different ways of mounting the mirror at the HV end on better quality tubes can easily add 50mm. Mine is 1250mm so you have bought the right one. Enjoy smooth predictable performance from now on. If you bought the same Macron tube, it is claimed to have 4000 hour life, which is amazing
Best regards
Russ
+SarbarMultimedia Wow! What a great tube! My machine isn't 100% the same as yours as it turns out. I wired mine like you did, works great! Can't thank you enough for you help and CZcams channel
+liam slavin
No thanks required. I'm doing this out of selfish enjoyment . Video is my other hobby so it's win.win for me and it's a bonus that you can learn from my mistakes and discoveries. However, I do appreciate your kind words.
Best regards
Russ
Another great video Russ :-)
If that old PSU needs a home, I'm looking for one for my K40..! :)
Hi
The tube and PSU supplied with my machine failed as a combination. I thought the tube was 100% at fault.. The replacement tube was a little better but performance was very variable. As you will see from some of my earlier videos than this one, the tube needed more and more help (machine kick) to get it to climb past the pre-ionization phase. Completely sure that this was a problem within the power supply I was happy to take it to the local recycling centre. As I find out many months later, they should have done that part in China!!! Because of all the correspondence I get with questions about failing tubes and power supplies a very clear picture has built up over the past year. ALL ebay machines are fitted with final QA failures from the big tube manufacturers. There are a couple of non-existent companies HK Laser Lab and Xi Laser Lab that are collecting these rejects, testing them to make sure they function "in some way", relabeling them to make them look authentic and presumably selling them back to shippers of Ebay machines where the chain of accountability is about the same as in a flea market. A sub standard/ poorly made PSU generally accompanies this tube. MANY people have reported PSU failures within days of powering up their machines. It's a total lottery as to how long your bits will last. The mechanics are basically reasonable although often suffer from poor assembly work. Fix those bugs, fit a new PROPER tube and matching power supply and you will have a good machine, still at a budget beating price.
So Sorry cant help and would also be loath to pass on proven rubbish
Best regards
Russ
Cheers, Russ. I've had donated a K40, with a non-functioning tube, so your videos have been really useful, & interesting. Thanks for putting them together. I can't get continuity from any of the wires for the primary windings on the HT. Suggestions for tube manufacturers? PSU suppliers? I'm getting thousands of hits out of the big 'G'... This reply has been really useful, too, cheers, mate.
SarbarMultimedia Why does a bad pre-ionization phase occur? Is it a problem in the power supply or can it be a tube failure?
Russ I replaced mine with a 50watt tube from STP in China which just from taking it out of the box could tell it was far superior to the original. The only bad thing was the DHL shipping costs !!!
Grazie per i magnifici video, molto utili!
Vorrei fare una domanda, è possibile che il mio tubo da 1000mm e 50mm di diametro sia un 60W effettivi?
Vorrei anch'io prendere un 60W di qualità, hai un consiglio dove prenderlo?
Grazie
Ciao Michele
Un tubo che è lungo 1000 mm è quasi certamente solo 50 watt di uscita . Se il diametro del tubo è circa 50mm , allora è certamente 50 watt ma se il diametro del tubo è circa 80mm allora potrebbe essere di 60 o più watt . Quindi il vostro è 50nwatts .
Mi scuso per non aver capito la seconda domanda perché Google translatorcreated un risultato di confusione
I migliori saluti
Russ
Grazie per la rapida risposta, lo penso anche io, troppo piccolo per 60W.
per favore, volevo sapere dove comprare un tubo laser da 60W
questo è il mio alimentatore:
www.ebay.it/itm/HQ-60W-CO2-Laser-Power-Supply-for-CO2-Laser-Engraving-Cutting-Machine-10600nm-/151042985682?hash=item232add0ed2
Ciao Michele
Se si acquista direttamente dalla Cina quindi i tubi sono generalmente specificati correttamente. Se vuole un tubo di 60 watt si otterrà un non tubo di 60 watt un tubo sopra specificato 50 watt. Ha bisogno di essere 1.200 millimetri di lunghezza e circa 55 millimetri di diametro (o più è OK). E 'in genere operare ad un massimo di 22 mA, ma il tubo di qualità migliore che io vi ho dato link di seguito, produrrà più di 60 watt in quel corrente massima unità. Ho trascorso molto tempo alla ricerca di queste aziende cinesi quando ho voluto sostituire il mio tubo e alimentazione. tubi Reci sono eccellenti, ma in realtà non fanno tubi sotto dei 100 watt e sono molto costosi. Io e molti altri hanno trovato Mactron di essere un fornitore affidabile con un prodotto di qualità costantemente elevata. Dal momento che ho montato il mio nuovo tubo non devo più preoccupare. La sua performance è fantastico ed è prevedibile come il giorno e la notte.
La mia alimentazione è stata a soli 50 watt così ho dovuto sostituire anche quello. L'attrezzatura che ho scelto è il secondo collegamento.
I prodotti sono un ottimo rapporto, ma DHL li rende piuttosto costoso.
Vi consiglio caldamente contro l'acquisto da Ebay.
Buona fortuna e saluti
Russ
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1-Pieces-60W-CO2-Laser-Tube/321243_1012159194.html
www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1200MM-60W-Laser-Tube-60W-co2-Laser-Power-Supply/321243_1109607209.html
Sei stato gentilissimo, credo che prenderò quello che mi hai indicato.
Una ultima domanda: dove posso trovare lo strumento per misurare la potenza del laser?
Ancora grazie e buon fine settimana!
Hi Michele
czcams.com/video/lO9rWlobLZU/video.html
questo video spiega come funziona un misuratore di potenza e perché non si può fare da soli senza qualche aiuto . Ho comprato il mio metro dal instuments Macken in USA . Tuttavia , non ho potuto acquistare direttamente in quanto non avrebbero spedito fuori degli USA . Mi sono arruolato uno dei miei corrispondenti ad acquistare per me e poi spedirlo a me . Si è superba .
Ecco il link
macken-instruments.myshopify.com/collections/analog-power-probes/products/p100y
Vedo che hanno ridisegnato il loro sito web la società e reso facile per l'acquisto on line .
Vi è una versione molto più economico che è disponibile dal
www.2laser.com/laser_power_meter_probe_and_laser_monitor .
Diverse persone li hanno acquistato e non ho cattivi rapporti .
Spero che questo ti aiuti
I migliori saluti
Russ
I just checked out their site and the prices seemed OK till I looked deeper and it would cost over AU $1000 to have it delivered here, then I checked the feedback for aliepress and said NO WAY am I going to chance this lot.
+Mentorcase
Do you think they sent me something special? I agree that the delivery cost was stupid, it doubled the purchase price and then to have import tax and VAT added, it almost made a grown man cry. All I can say is "I'm a very happy Easter Bunny" .....as this video shows.
Best regards
Russ
+Mentorcase
Hi Mentorcase
I just recieved the other day my EFR zs-1250 80-90 watt 10000 hr tube for $577Aud with UPS. I purchased it from Wave Top Sign on Aliexpress. Hope the link below works.
www.aliexpress.com/item/EFR-Laser-tube-ZS-1250-80w-length-1250mm-diameter-80mm/32588570251.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.10.RLkZHv&ws_ab_test=searchweb201556_9,searchweb201644_5_505_506_503_504_301_10020_502_10001_10002_10017_10010_10005_10006_10011_10003_10021_10004_10022_10009_10008_10018_10019,searchweb201560_2,searchweb1451318400_-1,searchweb1451318411_6449&btsid=d6d634a0-810c-4d05-86ad-da6e92fabed3
Only other advice I can Give is spend the extra 30 buck and go with DHL. They send direct from China to Brisbane. UPS made quite a few stops and came into Sydney before shipping it to me 170klm north of Brisbane.Phill
Did you replace your PSU as well as your tube.
The link that Russ posted appears to be for Tube + PSU, which appears to be a better deal than the price for just the tube in your link.
However, I did wonder if the PSU needs to be replaced at all when only upgrading the tube by 20 or 30W.
As around 65% power seems to give enough current for the original 45W (ish) tube, so 100% power output on the existing PSU should be enough for a 70W tube. Albeit, you would then be running the PSU a lot harder, which is perhaps not a good idea, and also the other concern would be that the striking voltage on these longer tubes could be 50% higher than the shorter tube.
So overall replacing the PSU at the same time as the tube seems a sensible idea.
Congrads! :) I also upgraded mine to 60W recently: lensdigital.com/home/?p=1498
I got SP tube, and it's also outputting over spec. In fact it gives 60W at just 14mA! However as you probably know out you can't really run it at 100% since PSU gives more current than recommended. On mine I get around 20mA at just 60-65%
+bratan007
Nice job. Yes our tubes seem very similar 62watts at 14mA. It's a bit like upgrading to a Ferrari after learning to drive on a donkey!!. I shall be happy to get the consistent performance that was so missing on my previous tubes.
Best regards
Russ
+SarbarMultimedia I have a 60 Watt tube that will do 60watts at 14 Ma as well. The reason why you are able to get more at a higher Ma power setting is that they over spec the tubes (at least the good vendors do) in order to provide the advertised 2000 hrs (or whatever they promise) of service. If you consistently run the power above 60 watts then the life of your tube will be shorter. So I always keep my tube at the recommended spec even though I could probably drive it up to its 22Ma rating.
+Ron R
I copy the Chinglish words from the tube manufacturer (not an agent) in answer to my direct question about the maximum "normal" drive current. 22mA would be normal for most 2000 hour tubes but I specifically asked this question because I noted in their specification that their recommended "normal running" max was higher than what I had expected. I quote:
1.laser tube when you use it, please don't use full power. please set 80% power, then it can protect and prolong the laser tube lifetime. And for the 40w,60w laser tube, the lifetime is 4000 hours, if you pass over 4000 hours, then the power will decrease, it is normal. and the laser tube is consuamble, and it need to change it periodically.
2. For the 60w laser, the 25-26mA current is prober. don't over 28mA. If use 22mA, the laser power would change less.
When you examine my power/current characteristic you will note that at 22mA I'm getting about 72 watts and the power is showing no signs of flattening off. The manufacturer says go ahead and use it at 26mA and you will expect 4000 hour life. This steeply rising power curve at 22mA is the overhead in the tube to ensure it gets to 4000 hours. This is NOT a long life tube just a lot longer life than most cheap tubes. I have run several hours on it so far doing full power (22mA) tests for a future project. It is an absolute dream to use after my other tube. 100% steady and predictable and I can set any point on my characteristic with confidence. I know this is what we should expect, but after my previous experiences....well, a pleasant surprise
Regards
Russ
+SarbarMultimedia
I know how you feel. I have one of those large Black and Red "60 watt" lasers. I was over-driving their (obvious to me now) 45-50 watt tube. I put the new 60 watt tube in and it is amazing the difference. I had the same reaction you did in the end of the future video when you made that nice deep mark in the acrylic. Love your videos. Great work!!
the old laser tube think's
Hi Russ I have taken your comments on board re spotting laser and have redesigned it . My other versions worked well but were not exactly neat. The new version is here czcams.com/video/Jm8syz6ARCY/video.html It was a tricky thing to shoehorn it in but I am pleased with it please have a look.
+Peter Jensen
Hi Peter
Superb solution. This is NEARLY the best of all worlds. It is easily better than any other beam combining technology that I've come across but that's because, like mine, its not a beam combiner but a temporary substitute for the beam. Because you are using it regularly for graphic location, your motorised switch in and out is a brilliant way to achieve this. For the Mk 5 let me suggest the ULTIMATE solution. If you could extend the baseplate backwards towards the tube, remove your first tube clamp and with two clamps about 10 or 15 cm apart on your baseplate, replace the existing tube clamp. With that, you would get a secure fixing of your pointer onto your tube. You now have a solution that no matter how you adjust your tube in future the pointer will truly follow the beam path. May be a step to far...... but what you have demonstrated is already a great solution. Respect.
Sincere regards
Russ
ps I am planning a simple mechanical alignment solution for picture location in a future session, would you mind if I praise and point to your solution, because for people that do picture location as part of a business, your solution is to be admired.
SarbarMultimedia Hi Russ thanks for your kind words and additional ideas. I don't think I'll do v5 right now as it serves its purpose but I agree to include the clamp base would be a great addition. Please feel free to spread the word.
Pete
sory plugged
Hi Marouane
Take a look at your You Tube Messages...maybe in the "possible spam" folder
Russ
good day ross please send me the file by email because I can not wait for the message by message you tube
email: letters_lumieres@yahoo.fr
I tried to send to the email but it is not recognized. Can you check and resend.
Thanks
Russ
just another question what is the little eletric cable that you just brach you said water protecte I did not understand this operation and what track I must plug it thank you
I have tried to send you an email with circuit diagram and picture but your email address was not recognized. Was there a spelling error? Could you resend an email address.
Best wishes
Russ
lettres_lumieres@yahoo.fr