RTX 4090 vs Pimax Crystal | 10 VR Game Benchmarks | High Performance on the Sharpest Headset
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2024
- After many delays, I FINALLY got to get this out. Boy, some rather interesting finds with this one. In a lot of cases, the Crystal can actually perform quite well despite the huge resolution on this virtual reality headset.
I can't wait to do more with DFR, even more exciting things to share there.
QUICK NOTE: In the cases where I was CPU bound and noted it in the video, I put the actual FPS I was running at under the GPU frame timings as this is a GPU comparison. In case the ms to FPS ratio doesn't feel like it matches sometimes there.
SPECS:
Pimax Crystal@4312 x 5100 & 3608 x 4268 per eye
RTX 4090
I9-12900k
6000Mhz/CL30 DDR5 RAM
Anti-Aliasing in VR Analysis: • Should You Still Use A...
CREDITS:
REFramework: github.com/praydog/REFramework Used for RE8 VR Mod.
VRPerfkit: github.com/fholger/vrperfkit Used within video for Project Wingman
AFFILIATE LINKS:
Pimax Crystal: hpimax.com/pages/crystal?ref=o... Use Coupon Code Omni50 for 50 dollars off
www.amazon.com/Pimax-Crystal-... (Amazon link if you prefer buying from there, more recommended)
Kat Walk C2 (Core or +): www.kat-vr.com/products/kat-w... Use coupon code "Omni130" for a 130 dollar discount!
Studioform Creative Comfort Accessories: www.studioformcreative.com/?r...
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Intro
00:13 Pimax Crystal Resolutions Used & Reasons
01:40 Test Configuration and Methodology
03:09 Half Life: Alyx
04:55 Resident Evil: Village
06:44 Castle Rock Beach
07:50 TWD Saints and Sinners: Chapter 2
09:40 Pavlov VR
11:16 Project Wingman
12:44 VRChat Settings
13:02 VRChat: 25 Person Black Cat
13:50 VRChat: 35 people Midnight Rooftop
14:50 Blade & Sorcery Outer Rim Mod
16:03 After the Fall
17:05 Skyrim with Dynamic Foveated Rendering
21:35 Conclusions - Hry
One correction! At about 22:34, when I listed the Alyx FPS, I accidentally swapped the MSAAx2 and MSAAx4 at 70% results! Sorry about that.
Great benchmark video! I'm glad you added in Pavlov as well. You did good showing the differences.
Looking forward to more DFR videos as well once more games are compatible
Very detailed information, thanks for your work.
great vid and actually very entertaining, nice job.
Can't wait for full DFR video!
You can use that with PimaxXR and the OpenXR Toolkit, though it wasn't what I used here with Skyrim.
EDIT: I'll also be looking at DFR with OpenXR too so look forward to that!
Excellent info! Especially intrigued by the Dynamic Foveated Rendering results...I'll be staying tuned to hear what else you discover with that. As a pimax crystal owner I'm hoping they enable/release the eye-tracking for us non-beta-testers soon, as the benefits appear to be significant.
I'd hope so too! I'll say that the 4090 doesn't appear to benefit from DFR quite as much in most cases as lower end GPUS do, least on first impressions, but there's still a few games which provide a meaningful uplift. Then a few where it provides an otherworldly high uplift due to the game having a degree of native support for a specific method of DFR. Lot of good stuff to share there, hope it doesn't take me too long to get to it all!
@@Omniwhateverhow do you get dfr to work ? I enable fr in openxr toolkit and turn on eye tracking but it stays as fixed is there any other options say in pimax that I need to change? eye tracking is on there also.
or is skyrim one of those instances where it's enabled with the pimax settings of dfr and not openxr?
Thanks for the awesome info! Can't wait for the next one. Have you thought of using index controllers with the patched/hacked open composite?
It's space calibrator, open composite it's something else. And no, haven't actually. One reason I was looking at the Crystal was to get AWAY from lighthouses and the Index Controllers. I don't have dongles to use either.
@@Omniwhatever Oops, yes space calibrator. I understand if you don't already have light houses and index controllers. As a owner of Pimax 5K, I kept my lighthouses and index controllers, hoping to use them in the future. I did transition to the HP G2 and was able to use in index controller and loved them.
Great vid! Hopefully my i9 10900k + 4090 setup nets me similar results 🙏
Great vid.. getting my crystal and 4090 next week hopefully.. :D
Great video! Can you describe how you set the .55 fsr+DLAA in the skyrim settings? Is that an ini modification?
So, it's pretty simple. In MO2, you just need to open the appropriate VRPerfkit setting(Balanced or Performance) you're using in explorer, open up the .yml in notepad++, then adjust the scaling factor from the default to 0.55, set the sharpening to 0, and if using DFR on the Crystal ensure fixed foveated rendering is off. Then, when Skyrim is open bring up the upscaler plugin menu, think that's the "HOME' button? And check the box to use the DLAA sharpening. Good to go.
great video~
Fantastic video. So in the near future I will own the crystal and I would love to hear some setting recommendations for my I9 9900k 3080TI computer if you can. Also how much of a loss will I take in the visuals?
Mate there is a CZcamsr called 'Immersed Robot' who has uploaded a lot of videos recently with a Crystal and a 3080 ti, check him out 👍
It'll depend a bit on if you play DFR compatible games or not, whenever that goes public, since even adding just +20-30% can be quite a significant boost.
One thing I'll say is that if you don't mind jaggies, then if the game uses MSAA(Which a lot of big VR games do) disabling that will save you some of the most performance. There's some games you might be able to manage even mostly high settings on without that on a 3080 TI.
I have a 3080 TI LAPTOP I'm gonna be featuring a bit in my coming DFR video. Not really the same as a desktop 3080 TI, but with DFR there seem to be some cases it might perform within shooting distance of its desktop variant not using it, if the gains hold up in a wider test suite when I get to it. Might give a ballpark idea.
Would also recommend Immersed Robot if you want somebody with the GPU you have for a performance idea.
@@adamlitchfield3371 Thx for the suggestion. I have already watched all his vids on the crystal. Thought I would ask @Omniwhatever since he gets alot more in depth on these headsets. He has already reply on this so thx Omniwhatever.
great video. thanks for your effort. Do you have msfs 2020? can you run that? I am running 4090, 7800 x3d, and 6000 mhz memory on 42" oled with everything set to ultra with high fps and very happy. However, your videos are tempting me to go VR! My hesitation on the pimax is that they aren't using oled yet, other available headsets have lower resolutions, and once you go oled, it's hard to go back to lcd. Is the crystal worth the $ or should I wait till someone comes out with an oled headset at similar resolutions and enough brightness? thanks man
I'll tell you that flatscreen benchmarks are very much NOT applicable to VR. I don't have MSFS to test though. But there's another channel I would recommend who's pretty much dedicated to DCS and MSFS, they're called VRFlightSimGuy. He has loads of videos showing those games off in VR and also their performance on high end stuff, including the Crystal recently.
As for OLED, you might be left waiting for a bit. If it's just color gamut you want, the Crystal actually trades blows with OLED HMDs, like the HTC Vive. They both have around 75%~ coverage of the Rec. 2020 color space. It's LCD, but it's QLED so the Crystal's gamut is top tier there.
If it's the blacks and contrast, well then little trickier. The Crystal has local dimming that works pretty amazingly even on the highest settings like 8/10 times, but there can still soemtimes be blooming in darker scenes and those other 2/10 it can be bad. But you can tweak it manually to get no blooming but still a very good contrast ratio that's well beyond other LCD HMDs. I really like it.
Any chance you could try out Bonelab and the TF2 game mode in contractors?
Have you encounter compatibility issue with vr mod games with Crystal? Im buying Crystal just for Praydog's UE injector and Luke Ross mods.
No, I don't play a lot of Flat2VR mods though. Only ones I've done have been the RE mods, but no issues there. Know some people have played Luke Ross's stuff with the Crystal just fine though.
Thank you very much for this really helpful video.
I just don't understand the native resolution because I can read on pimax website thant the resolution is 2880/2880 per eye, so a total of 5760/2880 🤔
Do you upscale to have 5100/4312?
Every headset has to super sample above native panel resolution to account for lens distortion and correct for it. It's how VR simply is. If you're rendering at only 2880x2880 then you're seriously undersampling the image.
@@Omniwhatever ok, thanks for your answer, that's a huge super sampling but I understand. I will receive my crystal in few weeks and will test that ASAP. Thanks again so much for all your vidéos !
Awesome video! Any chance you could post a tutorial on how you got open composite and the XR Toolkit working with the Crystal for Skyrim VR? I am having issues and cannot find a guide anywhere. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
I don't use OpenComposite because it's always caused more problems than solutions for me, Skyrim being one of them. And I never really had a reason to use it since having desktop access via SteamVR's always been a huge help for me. So, I don't think I could help sorry.
@@Omniwhatever Well my main reason for trying to use OpenComposite was to get DFR working but I have since learned that it is only available to Beta users at the moment.
@nickg2691 Just a heads up for whenever the ETing does become public, you don't use opencomposite for DFR with Skyrim in the Crystal. It works natively here with SteamVR, as i showed in the video.
@@Omniwhatever I must have missed that part, sorry I was skipping around a bit because some of the games you covered I don't play. I mostly play flying/racing sims and bypassing SteamVR typically leads to a non-negligible boost in FPS. I also saw all the recent buzz around the OpenXR toolkit now supporting eye tracking so I incorrectly assumed that was the method you were using. I have since learned that there are some controller binding issues related to using the OpenComposite runtime with Skyrim, but maybe once those issues are sorted out, it might be something worth checking out. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to answer my question, and as always thanks for the great in-depth video!
Another great video. Not sure if you are using SteamVR but wanted to ask your opinion. I have the Crystal and a 4090 too, I have then Pimax resolution at 0.75 and the SteamVR SS at 150%. Does it make a difference if I was to up the Pimax res (to 1) and steam ss down (to 112)? Or is it approx equivalent?
Thanks
So, it's not equivalent. Pimax's resolution scaler works differently from SteamVR. .75 at 150% SteamVR is 3960x4684. Which is much closer, but not the same, as 75% in SteamVR.
I mention the resolutions and what 1.0 is at 100% and 70% early in the video.
@@Omniwhatever thanks, but assuming you were able to pick 2 settings that equates to the same res, are there any other upsides to higher Pimax res vs higher steam res? (e.g. performance or image quality) Or is it only the final N x N px count that matters?
@@dunningkruger13 It's only the final pixel count that matters. I've never seen any difference.
@@Omniwhatever cool, thanks.
I suggest experimenting with NVIDIA Reflex (Toggling on and off) to try to see which setting helps the Dynamic Foveated Rendering issue. I have a quest 2 and a 7900 XTX, there are times where I have to turn Anti-Lag (AMD's version of NVIDIA's Reflex) OFF to help with stuttering, and if you think about it, it actually kinda makes sense.
You see, when a GPU is at or near 100% load, you can expect stutters because the render queue is waiting on another frame and has to pause outputting a frame till it receives a new one.
Tecnologies like Reflex and Anti-Lag are supposed to and in most cases, do help with this by removing the render queue entirely and automatically adjusts frame timing on its own so it can output a frame quicker.
When the GPU is not at full load, it's never pausing on a frame to output, because it always has a new one in the render queue. Anti-Lag and reflex can take a toll on the CPU when it has to keep up with frame timings being dynamically adjusted each frame, so disabling Anti-Lag or Reflex may help CPU-Limited situations!
I appreciate the write up, but that's not really the case here. Reflex requires a degree of support from the game itself to be fully utilized, though you can technically force stuff in the driver, and it's even set to off(Or, well, application controlled which is off by default) by default in the control panel. Skyrim even has a mod to enable reflex support and it didn't do anything for the CPU load. Some games, not all of them though, just have a notable CPU load increase from how Pimax is doing DFR.
VR also already has its own thing, at least for Nvidia, with respect to how it handles the render queue, referring to virtual reality pre-rendered frames. By default, that's always at 1, but can go up to 4. Because latency is such a big thing concerning VR you can't pre-render a lot of frames to buffer for any notable spikes, since otherwise then you start getting increased latency. At least in the Nvidia control panel, can't speak for Radeon, increasing this let's the GPU buffer more frames so could lead to increased perceived smoothness in the right situations when it's not under the refresh rate, but your latency in VR will increase.
@@Omniwhatever That is very interesting. I don't own a PC with a GEFORCE GPU, atleast not one that's in a crappy all-in-on pc, let alone an RTX. My actual Gaming PC is where I went with AMD Radeon.
I'm pretty sure Anti-Lag is driver only, now that you mention it, do remember a toggle on some games that have it, but it's been awhile. It's interesting to see a different case here, I just was sharing what I knew, hoping it helped.
Thanks for your write-up aswell!
earned a sub cuz
As a new Crystal owner I love your videos. Would be cool if you could do a video on the choice of switching between OpenVR and OpenXR (for games that support it) if it is universally better, what the pros and cons are etc. Not sure whether that would include switching OpenVR-only titles via OpenComposite as well would make it too big but that's another open question. That may confuse people or be worth a 2nd video 😅
Well the thing is that you can use OpenXR through SteamVR, most OpenXR games that's gonna be what you'll be using already instead of OpenVR. That's a common misconception that you can't or you need to use PimaxXR to use OpenXR.
Kind of hard to compare PimaxXR to SteamVR's OpenXR runtime though right now as there's some bugs with the grip button in PimaxXR. But from some very brief testing there wasn't much of a difference and even the developer kind of echoed the sentiment now. Some people will swear otherwise though.
Personally I'm had nothing but troubles with Opencomposite and think it's not worth the trouble.
@@Omniwhatever yes but the problem is DFR doesn't work with SteamVRs OpenXR, DFR currently only works with PimaxXR (confirmed by mbucchia a few days ago).
Good point about the grip button, I never knew because I rarely use Pimax controllers, preferring my own sim pit HOTAS and other traditional HID controllers.
Can OpenXR Toolkit work with SteamVRs version of OpenXR? The Toolkit has some very useful things I like to use eg increasing of dull colours, brightness and contrast in some sims.
Thanks for the OpenComposite opinion, so far I think there's only one title I may use it for so I'll probably just do the dll method only if I really need it.
@@Taipan303 At the moment that's true, but Mbucchia's working on integrating DFR via OpenXR into SteamVR. I've been testing it already and helping identify some bugs. No ETA on when that'll come though.
I don't know if that's also going to make the OpenXRToolkit work with it or not, but I believe it already should? The eye tracking part of it shouldn't though till this update, that's for sure.
@@Omniwhatever I'll have to try that thanks
now that amd has the 7900xtx drivers fixed for vr i wonder how well that would do in your test
I'd love to test that if I had the money, but I definitely don't have the cash to buy that GPU just for benchmarking purposes.
have you got your glass lenses in yet?
Yes got them a while ago.
omni where did u get the top strap for ur crystal man ?
From Studioform Creative, there's a link in the description.
So what I got from this was that I'll be upgrading my CPU (10850k) much sooner than I will my 4090. Which should be a smaller cost. Nothing too exciting in the CPU horizon yet as far as I can see though.
Frame Generation may be more of a god send at this time, at least for CPU bound games not in VR. It'd be nice if and when Frame Generation might work well for VR.
We kind of already have that in VR with reprojection/motion smoothing. Though, in theory I'd believe that the algorithms and optical flow accelerators used for frame generation could be used to improve reprojection?
I went from 10850K 32gb 3600 cl14. To a 7800x3d 64gb 6000mhz cl 30. It was almost as impresive as going from 3090 to 4090. Gained 20-40 Fps (IN VR GAMES) depending om the game.
I would say using a 10850k with a 4090 is like chocking Usain Bolt in 100meter sprint. Still outpeforms most people but performance wont be elite and in clash of its own.
@@nocompromesso it's 5-% difference. Unless you're running 1080p
> does benchmarks for a simmers headset
> no sims
😅 jk this is a fantastic video! I wonder if the CPU overhead of DFR would be significantly higher on weaker CPUs like the 5800x3d.
I can't test a bunch of configurations, but I still have my 12900HK laptop that I'll be playing around with DFR on for the eventual indepth look at it. That's still near top of the line for a mobile CPU, but it's still a tier behind the desktop 12900k. Need to see if there's any kind of measurable fixed load or if the absolute frame times were just so low to begin with I didn't really take note of significant increases from a preliminary look in some other games.
That stuff is what the indepth video will be for though!
Ciao! How can i play Resident Evil Village in VR?
@nilsrossi4217 Find the REFramework on github and it'll have instructions. Or join the Flat2VR discord if you want to use the latest beta branch with things like DLSS in VR, that's a slightly more involved setup process.
hi, nice video, congratulations. I have 4090, 7800x3D and crystal.
I wanted to ask you a couple of questions. Half life Alyx. In game at ULTRA. If on SteamVr I set 100% resolution, on Pimax Play I set render 1 (max), motion smoothing OFF, DFR balanced, putting this setting on Steam as Alyx's launch option:
-console -vconsole +vr_fidelity_level_auto 0 + vr_fidelity_level 8 +vr_render_scale 1.15 +vr_msaa 0 +vr_faa 1
...the game is not smooth. To have it run smoothly I have to set the fidelity level to a maximum of 5 (+vr_fidelity_level 5). Even setting +vr_msaa 2 and removing faa, I get the same result. I can at most go up to fidelity 5.
Setting render_scale 1.15 OFF or ON doesn't seem to change things.
What settings do you recommend using in Steam's launch options? I would like maximum graphics resolution with smooth gameplay. I don't care about 100/120fps, I just need the game to be smooth.
Is fixed foveated or dynamic foveated better with Alyx?
How much to set them in pimax play? Balanced, aggressive, conservative? Thanks so much and sorry for my english (i use google translate).
Change VR fidelity level to 3. You're locking the game to 200% resolution all the time with 8. That's way beyond a 4090. 3 is 100% resolution.
@@Omniwhatever OK thank you. So I set fidelity 3 even if the game goes smoothly at fidelity 5? Is vr_MSAA 2 better or vr_MSAA 0 and vr_FAA 1?
@@andrealongobardi4294 MSAA if it's still smooth. Experiment with the settings yourself. Buy FPSVR. It'll help you figure out your performance issues.
@@Omniwhatever last question: dfr or ffr? Balanced or aggressive?
@@andrealongobardi4294 Whatever you find the least noticeable and improves performance. Give it a try yourself and see how you feel.
Im going to try my hand with a 7900x3D+6400 ddr5 instead and see how it does.
and it's better?
@@Titanum7899 idunno it's not here yet.
Im waiting for the 500 series
That's not going to hit till 2025 from what Nvidia's said privately(And got leaked), so might be a while.
@@Omniwhatever aww man
I thought 2880x2880 is the full resolution.
It's base panel resolution per eye but it's not what you run the headset at. That's 2880x2880 per eye so 5760x2880 total resolution. Then you have the extra resolution on top of that to account for lens distortion.
Uh...Do I want to know what that white splotch is on the wall by your bed is?
It's some chipped paint.
Man it must be really hot in your outfit
There's a reason I have a big fan visible in most of my videos, I'll say that much.
So this headset is futureproof. Too bad it costs a fortune.
Hardly compare it to the 5k for xr4
Gay