Gone In A Flash: The Disappearance Of Kris Kremers And Lisanne Froon
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- Today, we are looking at the strange disappearance of Kris Kremers And Lisanne Froon, who vanished while hiking in Panama.
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The fact that the girls were still alive and trying to contact the emergency services when the family was on site searching for them is devastating
It brings a tear to my eye. It must have been horrific
It's just impossible to imagine, so so awful
"They' weren't still alive. The girls got lost and ended up going in the wrong direction, deeper into the jungle, but on the 6th day I think Kris suffered a severe head injury from falling down a ravine, or falling off a monkey bridge. This is when the 77 emergency calls were attempted by Lisanne and is also when the weird nighttime photos were taken, showing the back of Kris's bloodied head. I suspect she was already dead, or died in the hours that followed, leaving Lisanne alone in the jungle. At this point, their parents had still not arrived, although search parties were looking for them.
Lisanne either left Kris's body, or pushed it into the river so she didn't have to see it. I suspect she then carried on for another 7 days, going further in the wrong direction and suffering from hunger, thirst, delusion, injury etc. Eventually Lisanne would have died from the elements as well, but not before trying to access Kris's phone again, however she had probably forgot the pin code, since she doesn't normally use it and especially due to her being weak and delirious. Lisanne may have suffered a major injury at some point as well, before trying to frantically log into Kris's phone. This explains the weird phone activity.
I suspect the villagers found their bag and belongings, and possibly the remains, but decided to steal the belongings. However, when they realised the media and police were involved int he case and there was also a $30,000 reward, they probably put all their belongings back together and pretended they had only just found it. So not only are they helping the investigation in their mind, but also hoping to get the reward money. Also, Kris's family and the Panama government deleted a photo from the camera that showed Kris's dead body with the front of her head cracked in half. They also withheld other images from the public domain, which showed Kris's injuries and possibly injuries to Lisanne as well. In fact Lisanne may have been alive for 3-7 days with a broken ankle. Everything is speculation though.
@@petyrbaelish1718 not being a smart alec but, how do you know all this?
@@22161 The parents/families have closed the case and got on with their lives again. They know what happened, probably because of the photo that was deleted at their request. If there was foul play involved, why aren't the parents fighting harder, or even just saying that someone has manipulated the images, or murdered the girls. They have never said any of that. Conspiracy theorists have said all that. The parents have stayed surprisingly quiet. So they probably have some evidence to know what happened. And again they would be raising the roof and calling for a murder investigation if they knew foul play was involved.
The most likely scenario is that they got lost, Kris had a fatal accident, Lisanne was left all alone and trying to use her phone, before she also succumbed to the elements, hunger, thirst and exhaustion. Or injury as well. I suspect the camera flashes were to get a passing helicopter's attention and she also took one of Kris's body to see if she was still alive. Lisanne may have stayed with Kris for some time after her accident, as in several days. But she did leave her at some point, to try and get out. Those scavenger villagers almost certainly found the girls belongings and stole them, probably cleaning them up. Then they panicked when the police/media got involved and also thought they could get some of the reward money. We don't know anything though. I would love to hear Kris and Lisanne's parents actually provide their opinion on what happened.
I cannot imagine the fear and terror of being lost in a foreign land with no way to reach civilization. Their last days are just too frightening to even think about. So horrific. Prayers to their family.
I'm a relatively new sub and I've already binge watched all of your content. Your channel is truly one of the better true crime channels on CZcams. Great job!
The idea of trying to reach emergency services and not being able to get through is just too awful to comprehend.
And thank you so much for your support, it means a lot!
There's a story about a girl who got drunk with a group of friends and ended up getting lost in the catacombs in Paris I believe? She got separated from the party.
Imagine wondering around in the dark drunk, dazed and confused for days and days..
I believe emergency services were sent in to look for her months later after the stench of her decompositing body reached the entrance
@@mitchand9 that is the stuff nightmares are made of. Omg I cannot imagine!
Word
Maybe it's rather not so nice to get lost in your own land either? Getting lost and dying just sucks anywhere doesn't it?
Years later, I am STILL bothered by this case. I always watch for new information and channels offering a fresh look. Brilliantly covered, Truly Criminal.
It's the same for me!
I don't think we'll ever know what happened
@@justthatgirl-ct4joi thought they got injured and lost . I don't think they were murdered
@@based-ys9um the guide feliciano knows more than we know
Watching the sorrow creep into the mother’s expression as she talks about her daughter being too smart to wander off on her own is so heartbreaking...those poor parents. I’m glad they at least got the closure of finding remains, but what a horrific thing to go through.
They got 33 of Lisanne's bones and 2 of Kris's bones. I'd hardly call it closure.
@@kennethmacalpin7655Cause rest was a matter of..... I can't say it here but we know what I'm talking about 😭😡🕯️🙏
Bigfoot
This was one of the first cases that really burrowed into my brain. There are so many loose threads that the mind boggles.
Here is a great expose (a little hyped up), by JJ Kelly and Kinga Philips.
czcams.com/video/aLDsXTU5Yuw/video.html
Juan perea y monsuwe has done a great job investigating this event. Watch his you tube videos, they are interesting. Don't necessarily with agree entirely with his hypothesis, but I think he has hit the nail on the head with some of his conclusions.
So nice to see "loose" used properly.
Really there arent so many loose threads at all.
People have gone missing in nature forever.
The family of these girls does not get their brains burrowed.
The girl's brother actually said; Yeah well, it could have been a jaguar or anything.
It could have been a case of snakebite...he forgot about many other animals that live there.
The most likely one to my mind would be a puma. A lion.
Please notice: i am not saying that a puma killed those girls.
It was pretty clear. Those girls went charging into the jungle.
They were never prepared for a jungle trip.
That is how people get lost.
People go missing all the time.
I'm starting to think: just because these girls were very pretty...people tend to think more about them.
If an old man would disapear in the forest who would be noticing?
If a woman with a pimple on her nose went missing...would there be such an uproar?
If a kid with a limp went missing in the forest what would people say?
They would not give a second thought about it.
These girls were pretty....that is why there is so much speculation about them being raped and killed.
If Lisanne and Kris looked ugly...there would be nobody even worried about them.
Me too I keep following it as it was quite disturbing 😳
*boggles the mind
This is such a sad and strange story.. They had such a great future ahead of them.. I feel so horrible for their poor family's.
Whether if it's a crime or an accident, it's just really painful to know what the girls have went through and what unimaginable pain it caused to their loved ones. Hopefully someday, the answers would be found.
I would say the answers are already found. Just a lot of internet-people doesnt want to believe it ,because the use the principle of conspiracy theories, which is : ''informations can be interpreted different , as long no one was there with his video camera and recorded the lost girls for 10 days, to prove : they got lost, and not killed''
But everything how they acted - the cell phone usage for instance. Sticking by the river (fresh water, because dehydration is the first cause of death in such a situation)... all of those things points to : they got lost in the jungle ... They were young, and the most unexperienced people with jungle as possible. Europeans who barely even saw a forest from inside. Even on the fotos on El Meridor , they act like they visited Paris. They were with total wrong mindset in the jungle. Without a map, without compass, without tour guide, without a local - without food - barely with a small waterbottle. But with sunglasses and digital camera.
And the whole internet wants to say: ''they cant die because of those circumstances... they have to be killed by kidnappers, because thats more creepy and exciting !'' ... i could vomit because of those ''excitement-creeps''.
Although this is a very sad tragedy, I can never understand why people would decide to hike in a foreign land without a local guide regardless of how easy the track may seem.
The guide is the one who killed them
Nice baseless conspiracy theory karen
Whose to say you can trust the local hiking guide!???
It's a great adventure trekking in a foreign country. I did it in Cuba paying for a Rambo tour trekking thru a jungle with a guide resort catered food. We would be lost without a guide and country is safe. These girls went alone which can be dangerous and anything could happen. Maybe they got lost and died from starvation or an accident or wild animals or cartel.
@@Scipio_Americanusstop calling every goddamn woman with whom you disagree, a “Karen.” So lazy and played out.
Scratching Panama off my bucket list right now 😳
Scratch the whole bucket list. Life will be hell from now on. Research the great reset. Covid is just the start of terror on earth
@@a.e2385 Agree! People should call upon Jesus, accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, finally repent of their sins and follow Jesus. Satan and his minions have conspired an evil plan for this earth, and will mostly be successful. But Jesus will put them to shame at his return.
Panama is beautiful.
Most Countries are dangerous.
Including the US.
Don't be stupid. Why should Panama be responsible for their deaths? I am sure where you live women are killed all the time, but are you planning to leave there and move elsewhere? God, what a stupid statement.
@@ButternutBanyana they are. That was my first initial reaction cause that was so creepy. Lol
I’m from Mexico and I never do hiking unless is with a BIG group to avoid situations LIKE THIS if you like to travel alone YOU SHOULD know how to protect yourself 🤷♀️
11 days, 77 attempts to call emergency services. Those poor girls my god.
Technically it was 77 attempts to access the phone. We dont know who had the phone
@@billblaski9523my phone becomes disabled after three attempts with a wrong passcode.. then you have to wait so many minutes before starting over.. with a low battery and short time span you wouldn’t get a chance at many attempts
The “guide” who entered their room early and moved/removed things is shady…
The only reason I can’t 100% say I believe there was no foul play, is the fact that the bag was found months later in perfect condition with unknown dna on it. and the lady who walked the rivene multiple times said it hadn’t been there in the days before ... and how the very few remains were found... odd right?
@Justin Hoard wow I can’t believe I missed that ...
Not just that but the foot that they found was almost a clean cut when severed from the body. Also none of the bones left any indication that animals got to them, there were no scratches or bite marks
As sad as this story ended for them, this entire scenario was totally unavoidable.
I mean where did they think they were hiking? Their backyard?
I mean you're in a foreign country well known for its murder and disappearances over narcotics.
You're about to hike in the area where people go missing because of gangs and narcotics and to make matters worse.
Your guide is a dog.
That's a whole lot of red flags and not once did one of them think that trip through properly.
Their phone and camera usage, or lack thereof, also indicates foul play.
@@mitchand9 No, they went on a very safe trail! A trail that was impossible to fall off of or get lost on. Their parents went there and walked the same trail. Don't make it sound like they were just stupid and oblivious as to what kind of place they were at.They came to work there, remember?!
Stop infantilizing them, it's annoying and disrespectful.
The one thing that really confuses me is that if they were alive for 11 days, and were trying to call emergency services, why didn't they attempt to text someone? yes i know it wouldn't have worked since they would have no service, but near the end when they realized they weren't going to make it, i'm sure they would have wanted to leave some sort of message for their families, they could have entered unsent texts, or notes on their phones, and also why didn't they take photos of themselves to show what was happening instead of just shots of the jungle?
greatun..... they were abducted 1st April.
Two girls alone walking in the middle of nowhere in a jungle in a dangerous country I don’t know where was the common sense of those two poor girls .
let's not victim blame but I am surprised they hiked in the woods on their first day, alone...perhaps life in safer in Holland so no one thought to go over safety rules.
@@patricia-fz8et No, let's victim blame. They were total morons. Zero sympathy
yall I got lost in Nepal with my parents in a jungle, luckily we got a connection and called our relatives nearby. like, those few minutes were terrifying......... what would these girls have gone through at that time, this just terrorizes me...
Great comment. Thanks for sharing that.
I got lost in Nicaragua as a kid. Which is not too far from Panama. I was actually glad to be lost. I heard beautiful birdsong and saw monkeys. There were not even any phones at the time.
So maybe these girls were not so afraid at all.
Maybe you don't need to be terrorised.
This story creeps me out more than all the others and always has. Such a creepy and horrible tale. Those poor girls.
I found this channel yesterday I bing watched every episode, just wanted to say thank you for the terrific work & research you all do it truly is one of the best (with JCS, THAT CHAPTER, MATT, LPR to name a few...) everything is well explained no unnecessary chit-chat you get straight to the point so thank-you for the hard work it is very appreciated !!! This story is just heartbreaking I can't imagine what those girls must have been feeling - absolute despair, my heart goes out to the family of Kris Kremers & Lisanne Froon...
It really is one of those cases that's just too awful to imagine - trying so hard for so long to get help and not being able to, it's just so sad.
And thanks a lot for your support, I really appreciate it!
I would like to congratulate you on your channel & content. I'm a big true crime junkie & good channels are few & far between. I am also from the UK & usually avoid the British ones, but your narration is spot on & delivered very respectfully. Keep up the good work!
Thank you so much I really appreciate it!
I second that
I recently found this site and can't wait for the evening to watch more. Really know your material and the lady that does the narrative is a very calming voice. I can understand the accent and it's not to low or screaming. Not sure how many stories there are but, you can bet I will be watching them. Good Job
I also avoid the British ones. Weirdly and don't know why.
Word
Your content is SO good. This is the best summary of this crazy case that I have ever seen. Thank you!
If I was given a chance to just magically know exactly what happened in any missing person/mysterious death case, it would be this one. I have read every article, blog/reddit/social media posts, watched every tv/CZcams videos, and read up and looked into every theory, yet I still have trouble feeling confident that any of the theories are actually what happened to these young women.
I would choose the same case!
I have been watching your videos all day. You are genuinely fantastic at putting these stories together. You give a full account but never indulge in the gore and horror. You keep the story victim centric and stick to the facts. I subscribed earlier but I just wanted to let you know how much I like your work. Thank you
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it!
Her accent is fantastic. Cheers from Greece.
This case and the Delphi are the two cases that really boggled me
What is the Delphi case?
@@joannaaustin1768 im sure you Googled by now but the two 13 year old girls killed in Delphi, Indiana. One of the girls recorded the man that is the killer, so we have video of him and his voice but they still haven't found the killer yet
Thank you. I had a look. It is bizarre that the police are still keeping some details back from the public. And the young photo fit just doesn't match the man in the video.
@@joannaaustin1768maybe he was police
@@billblaski9523 They have a suspect now! He lived locally this whole time. Very interesting but so sad and frustrating
The girls were clearly running from someone and tried hiding while attempting to call for help... The the killer tried accessing their phones. The killer kept their items then placed them where they could be found.
There wasnt a murder. The bones that were found near here were a common place where people have fallen to down the ravine. They were lost, and continued the wrong way for help. It's actually pretty straight forward.
@@BlueAmerican26 are you blind or are you something else , people really made me angry with their naivity , they were killed then they were cuted into pieces, the way THE FORM , the bones and skin were found point all to it , if was where being a animal savage , there should no been that clean cut of her foot , SO go to say was nt a murder to other place , and for these bones to apear the way they did ,at least they should have taked 4 months or more , .. the forest dont simply made you apear bones on that way with clean cuts , others like the pelvis , who the police said it no have animal bites into it or looked like that ,.. so what about , SHITY hummans , theguide why he did what he did , read the reporsts he did , the taxi driver too ..
YES they did were murdered , 90 per cent on it , people really made me angry with their naivity , they were killed then they were cuted into pieces, the way THE FORM , the bones and skin were found point all to it , if was where being a animal savage , there should no been that clean cut of her foot , SO go to say was nt a murder to other place , and for these bones to apear the way they did ,at least they should have taked 4 months or more , .. the forest dont simply made you apear bones on that way with clean cuts , others like the pelvis , who the police said it no have animal bites into it or looked like that ,.. so what about , SHITY hummans , the guide why he did what he did , read the reports he did , the taxi driver too ...
Taxy drive whatever on the report he did to the police he says he leave them on the begining part od the trial or path to the mounains at 1 40 pm but the photos the first ones of that day on the mountain shown the were taken around 10 to 12 pm , acording to people who know on theses matters , and all of they say the same , , ... why the guide no called the police and waited like 5 hours to do , aah but he wnt inside their rooms alone to what do , for like 20 minuts or more .. ahhh.. Guide shity one hide something thats for shure
I think your imagaination is running wild.
@@tokyoru587 cool story bro.
I have lived in Boquete the past two years (long after this happened) and one key to this, I believe, is the nature of the seasons in the area. From December through March, the afternoons are sunny and windy. From May through October, it is normally bright and sunny in the mornings but becomes rainy by 3 pm. Sometimes the storms are immense downpours that turn trails into streams. April is a month where the weather transitions from dry to rainy so there are sudden downpours on some days and no rain on others. I tend to believe that one of the two ladies was injured and both tried to call for help but there was no cell service in the area. They may have become disoriented by the fact that they could have crossed the continental divide so trekking downhill actually led them further from home, not closer. Neither of the girls were serious hikers, from what I have been told, and the trails in Panama can be rocky and treacherous, particularly in heavy rains. One or two wrong decisions may have sealed their doom.
I was looking for someone who is familiar with the terrain-often explains also. Thanks. Tragic story :(
We also live in Boquete. There was a drought & no rain until 4/8/2014. Sinaproc looked for the girls many days & determined they were not there. Very suspicious the backpack was found 10 weeks later with little damage (bras neatly folded inside & no damage to their phones, camera, sunglasses, passport, etc), Very few bones were found & they were found upstream! Some behind a tree! Kris' bones were bleached & Lisanne's were barely decomposed. Fishy fishy fishy!
@@Banksy2022 Когда люди отправляются в поход , или на пляж , то они берут с собой полотенца , или покрывало, чтобы было на чём посидеть . Как Вы думаете , кому в джунглях могло понадобится покрывало , или чужие полотенца ? Могут ли возле тропы , жить люди , предпочитающие жить только отдельной от других людей группой ?
Right on, I agree
doesnt explain the bones
could not sleep and have just stumbled on your channel ,top marks here ,well done ,the world is truly a bad place
Did you sleep after watching this?
This case really saddens me. Thinking about their poor families, may they find peace one day ..
Ya know, all the evil in this world makes it hard to want to explore anything anywhere...I have lost any trust I had in humanity 😢
5:12 the way Feliciano is eavesdropping trying to understand what Kris’s mother is saying, wondering if they’re suspicious of him. He knows exactly what happened
Exactly. I noticed it too. He's the one who masterminded it.
@@paolorossi5989why he wasn’t investigated is mind boggling. He’s sketchy asf
@@BenGi-yj8io He is profitable to Panama's tourism.
You don't know that. Innocent until proven guilty.
@@croakingfrog3173 your right, I don’t know that… because the Panamanian authorities botched the investigation from the start and were more concerned about their tourism and reputation
I don’t have a theory I just have some points to make:
* the first emergency call was at 4.39pm and then not again till next morning, why if one of them was injuried or they were lost wouldn’t you have called multiple times? This was going to be dark soon. They didn’t know they would be lost/hidden for days... I would have called over and over again scared to sleep in jungle for the first night plus injury or lost.
* • the camera - why would they have no photos of the two them together even if one was injured or lost. They could have done selfies together of where they were on the first night, again not knowing they wouldn’t be found?
* Why have no further bones have ever been discovered? Noting that 3 natives bones were also discovered.
* Backpack with things in it, why didn’t the need anything from the backpack with them? Whether camera, sunglasses, bras, water bottle? when they fall over or injured they just happen not to have these items with them at the time?
It said on the 911/112 call list she had an iPhone 3. iPhone 3 didn’t have a front facing camera as I recall. I’m guessing for that fact that neither did the Samsung model the other girl had. Must have just been before selfies!
The camera - that has always bothered me. If this is the end - or you're terrified - or your friend has died - why not get on the camera and record ONE small video to your family!
- they knew they were lost and tried to conserve battery until they realised how badly in trouble they were
- If I was lost and scared the last thing I would think of is taking a selfie
- Animals
- I think one of them took off the backpack and clothes in a final attempt to swim for rescue. A local found it and kept it until the cops started looking around villages, then they placed it back by the river where they found it
And why they didnt try to send any messages via text. Its always works even with low connection
@@lidya7385 I have no idea, but why would a kidnapper leave the bag with the phones in tact? That makes no sense at all to me
The weird thing to me is that in the photos you can see the bra straps on one of the girls. So why were their bras in the backpack?
Such a terribly sad story. I don’t know if a few bones would be enough closure for me as a parent. I would always be wondering where the rest of my child was. 😟
I've watched this story few times before but this is the first time that I've seen so many real footage.
Sadly, they met with foul play. If they had died from being lost, how on earth were their phones, camera and other items found in pristine condition? The backpack would have been soaked, given they were in a rain forest and presumably, would have been found on one of them had they been lost. The sad reality is they possibly got lost, and met with a sad fate of someone who saw an opportunity. I’m going to guess that the night photos taken were of the murderer, not either girl. It was done to skew any investigation and confuse people. They are nothing more than random photos in the dark. The one deleted was reported to have been deleted via computer, which is also a red flag.
Very well done video and my heart goes out to the family and friends of these young ladies.
Yes the bag is key
It may not have rained during the time they were lost so the backpack didn't have to be wet. They may have left it down during a state of utter confusion when dehydrated and starving. It makes more logical sense that they themselves took the pictures to see in the night as they had no torch. Why would a murderer incriminate himself further by touching their items and leaving fingerprints/DNA. Personally I think they got lost, became very confused, dehydrated, disorientated and exhausted then sadly died.
I’m a Brit and love your voice; I’m subscribed to many male crime channels and hearing a female voice is a nice fresh feel
i agree her voice makes the whole show.Not these phoney american load annoying presenters!
the fact their bodies was found where other bodies were found shows this was a murder. Why would their bodies be found among others?
CannibaIism.
Hi Colette. I believe they were referring to the area at the bottom of that dangerous rope bridge. They said numerous indigenous people have fallen from that bridge over the years and they don't report their deaths to authorities.
@@deangiusti1884 thank you.. I missed the part speaking of bridge.. if bridge is on ordinary tourist route?
They claimed route was safe if NOT leaving it. And parents told “girls NEVER LEAVE ROUTE” and I don’t think they would do such a stupid thing by free will…?
The other bones were probably ppl that had fallen victim to injury,, the elements, slipped and fallen off that cliff, it doesnt mean murder tho..The girls were hiking in the jungle lots of things could have happened to them besides murder,.
The bodies were not found among others.
No dumping site was found.
There is no proof of murder.
This is such an excellent channel! And your videos are first rate.
Those poor girls and their families. 😢
I have seen this disappearance 10 times and, still it is heartbreakin for the parents.
I just watched someone else's video on this horrible case. I can't post the link from my phone. I think it was posted 4 months ago. He suggested it was the tour guide who was responsible. He said the 2 girls caught a taxi. The driver gave an inaccurate time for dropping them off. He was found drowned in shallow water a year later. He and the tour guide were 2 people who the girls supposedly told about their plans to go hiking. The video showed a review of the tour guide - from a woman who strongly recommended not to travel alone on his tour. She said he started touching her, and joked about cutting off her legs with his machete. The foot that was found had a clean cut, just like a machete would make. Also, the tour guide apparently has a coffee farm right where the girls were missing. AND he supposedly went to where the girls were staying, and conducted a search of their room, for 30 minutes, and he was alone in the room the whole time. What was he looking for? It goes to show, if the locals tell you it is unsafe to hike, listen to what they're telling you. I'm so sorry for what these young girls went through, and for their families having to live with this now, and without the answers and justice they deserve. I'm amazed that someone making a CZcams video can think to check out reviews for this tour guide, but the police did not. And I would be surprised if they, or the locals, don't know more than they are letting on. RIP Lisanne and Kris.
There were no marks in the bones, if someone had chopped them up with a machete there would be marks on bones!
Nice catch definitely he is with his son and PM
@@chelleyd4020 I don’t think he would’ve scratched her bones with the machete he could have just swung the machete at her ankle.
This is one of my worst nightmares.it makes me anxious just thinking about it
Poor girls. With the angels now
There are two different types of angels….there are two possibilities for where a person spends eternity
Always left me feeling unsettled this case! So many unanswered questions...bleached bones, a foot in a shoe, all the strange photos. If it was an accident why were their belongings found in different locations. Just so bizarre the whole thing my heart goes out to the families 💯
- Bleached bones is normal after rainfall. Bleached anything is normal after rainfall because the rain contains hydrogen peroxide....you know...the stuff people bleach their hair with.
- A foot in a shoe only makes sense. When the insects eat up your corpse a foot in a shoe is the most difficult part to get at.
- Their body parts being found in different places makes sense.
That's what happens to all bodies left in nature.
@@forestdweller5581 yes but why was only one of the bones bleached and the other not, and why were there no scratches on the bones? Wouldn't large animals scattering body parts dig into the bones and leave some kind of marks or scratches?
@@dezluna9557 Apparently one bone got more exposed then. And no, there wouldn't necessarily be scratches everywhere. All sorts of animals make use of a a cadaver from the predator who makes the kill to others stealing parts from it, birds pecking at it, maggots and so on. So it's perfectly normal for different bones to end up in different places with or without scratches. Surely you must have seen nature documentaries that show the fierce competition going on whenever there is a kill somewhere.
@@forestdweller5581 makes sense rip to those girls :(
@@dezluna9557 Yeah mate, those girls are from my home town Amersfoort actually. They are pretty much forgotten now. As well as the lesson to be learned from their mistakes; don't go out in nature without preparing your butt off first.
Why did they only take all those photos on that 7th night tho? Did no one else find that weird?
This one genuinely bothers me, one one hand the evidence points to an accident/falling in the river. However the photos, the backpack. Things just don't add up..
It can't be an accident. Too many things don't add up.
LiteraIIy nothing points to an accident.
@@rockstarofredondo an accident that a third-party caused
Their bones were found alongside other human bones. I think it's straight forward that there is a someone hunting these tourists
@@TekkLuthor Канибалы ?
I remember reading for hours, blogs about this, The Panama Girls. All other theories were so errie and disturbing. But somehow some of it made sense. All the photos in the phones and all the speculations. This is one of the most tragic yet chilling unsolved cases.
I'm Panamanian and remember this clearly, specially because I was studying my Bachelor in Tourism at the time. I rarely watch the news in my country but when I found out about this I was glued to the tv for any update.
This is really very strange because the crimes against tourists are so low (perhaps the regular robbery) and even more in the country side when there are actually a lot of foreigners living in the area because it offers a cooler weather than the rest of the country and has a vast of green scenery.
I remember a native girl in my class saying that some indigenous groups are more protective of their areas than others and they have strange practices but they are kept in the low to the rest of the world.
Others said that maybe they came across to some sketchy activities and were killed because of what they witnessed.
Some people suspect the tourist guide that was supposedly going with them they canceled with him but I can't remember why, locals also advice them not to go alone and if I'm not mistaken the guide went into their room as well after they went missing, don't know why the owner of the place they were staying allowed this.
I personally don't know much of the area but I have gone sightseeing Chiriqui and other places around the country and the terrain can be very treacherous specially with our crazy weather where it can be sunny and the next minute is pouring, maybe one was injured and this added to the fact that they could have been lost is so scary.
I get chills just thinking about what could have happened to them any of this scenarios is terrifying 😔
plinio montenegro y feliciano las marcaron y las entregaron..no digas que los crimenes contra turistas son bajos...son muchos .obviamente no van a desaparecer turistas todos los dias, se les termina el negocio sino...pero son muchos los casos .lamentablemente ninguno tan raro como este
What about the cannibals rabbits they ate them
On a pic with kriss near the cave
I saw a handmade idol and there is a head of the rabbit on this idol. With long ears..
I also noticed another rabbits head on the ground
Masks, feathers, indigues.. The 3thd brunette girl.. Who was also raped was there..
Rabbits killed them, they hand their victims upside down and cut organs..
They eat flesh
They became witnesses of rape of this brunette in baranco, and were caught by the indigues
Thanks for your insight. Wonder about the dog..
Three big things that make this ultra suspicious to me are
1) The backpack, non weathered, nothing missing, nothing broken ended up miles away from where they were last located. And a good bit after they had been missing.
2) The shorts were found not far from the backpack a few days later, again in good condition and so far away from where they were last located.
3) The bones of three other unidentified people were found near these girls bones?? Huh?? Sounds suspicious to me!! For sure!!
4. And no blood anywhere on or in the backpack or on any of the items in it. You'd think if they had a serious debilitating accident that it would have involved blood and thus in rummaging through the backpack they would have deposited bits of blood here and there. Also, bras would have been used as a bandage, strapping, padding in the event of a, serious accident. Yet neither bra was used in such a manner. 🤔
Thank u thank u for mentioning the facts that should make everyone skeptical of the girls simply got lost conclusion that the panama gov wants to shove down our throats
Westerners only know about yellow fever, but the rest of the world has “white fever”, which is 10 million times more common than yellow fever in the west. Most Westerners will know nothing about this until 2024😅
Perfect timing! I just subscribed to you yesterday and this is my case. You know that one you just can’t shake? I don’t even know what I think, just that those pictures are sooooooo suspect.
@Christine LovesCrime bullseye! As much as I'd like to believe it was all a freak accident with no human intervention, those pictures tell another story. As do (quite) a few other details. The bleached bone, for one example.
I think the same about the pictures. They just didn’t sit right with me. Something feels off!
@@OhanaLulu Вы правы . Фотографии указывают на другое и плохо доказуемое . Мне очень жаль ,что многие люди не хотят это понимать . И мне печально читать о том , что у них нет проблем , с позами девушек . 🤦
10:58 It is a plastic bag which is also seen carried by Lissane at 10:00
I believe, the bones somewhat prove cannibalism or cartel murder. Whatever it is, the poor girls had some devastating days to the end of their lives. It is so frightening.
I found this channel a few days ago,and I'm going crazy watching every video,I cry for majority so far as well. Love from Trinidad n Tobago🇹🇹
I’ve been to Boquete Panama, and it’s very very unlikely that the girls got lost and succumbed to the elements. The area surrounding the hiking trails are bookended by coffee plantations all around the area.
When I was there I met an American tourist woman who was robbed while staying in a vacation rental. She was older, and the young men who did it tied her up, beat her up, and robbed her possessions. Unfortunately violent crime is much more common in south and Central America.
Agree, I think the “getting lost” scenario is ridiculous knowing about the trail and so forth. Even Kris’s parents went there and did the same trail, and said the same thing.
@@79Bobola I can totally see how the girls can get lost. The way how they used their phones 11 days, to call for help signals that. Also kidnappers wouldnt pack everything nicely in a backbag, to let it find by the police. And even if they would do it - they wouldnt give the 83 Dollars the girls carried, in the backbag too. 83 Dollars in Panama is enough to make a drunken night of the kidnappers and their friends. They also wouldnt pack their passports into the backbag to make it more easier which backbag it was.
I am aware that there are a lot of criminals in Panama. Yes i am also aware, that kidnappings happens there, or rapes, etc.. But that doesnt mean: that its physical impossible in this universe: that two very young girls, with absolutely no experience with jungle, and in an area which they absolutely dont know , and without any map, and without compass , ''cant get lost because only 1 mile in the right direction , there are coffee plantations, urban area etc''
Sorry but no....
Its absolutely possible under such conditions: two unexperienced very young girls, in a dense jungle were you only see 4 feet away because of leaves etc - that you indeed can be lost.
YES i also get it : trails... but the fotos they made , espescially on 8th april indicates otherwise.. But also a lot of other fotos look like: they lost track at some point. Regardless how ''easy'' it is for you, and the other one who commented. Everyone who looks on a case from outside is ''very smart'' .. i know those very smart internet-people since 20 years of internet experience. And this here is no exception.
A mate of mine was robbed by a gang and when a walked to the police station they couldn't understand why he was reporting it as he was OK.
@@waterboy8999 That doesnt need to be in south america. I am from middle europe , and once around 50 euro's were stolen from me. I walked to the police station , and the police officer almost laught at me , meaning to me ''ok, and why are you here ? what should we do now? '' ... I am sure, he wouldnt talk so easy if it were the case that i would've stolen 50 euros from him. Anyway - i just want to say: such cases often lead to nowhere, and the police knows that, so they mostly gave up to make a big deal about those ''gang robberies'' etc ... And yes, the more they give up on cases, the more secure the criminals feel doing their thing. Doesnt need to be Mexico, or south america.
I got the sense the people there want to hide those bad things that happen. Tourists and expat money is the biggest source of money for that community. Btw, all of the foreign owned homes have razor barbed wires lining the tops of their fence walls.
I don’t understand why, after finding their bones with the remains of three other people, nobody suspected any foul play.
Because it was a cover up from the Panamanian government, that's why they were so quick on closing the case. Remember, they earn alot of their revenue from tourists; they have to protect the image that their country is safe to visit so they'll do whatever it takes.
They phones and cameras go to the government first before anyone else, I have no doubt in my mind that they wiped picture 509 before handing it over as it contained evidence to something.
@Track- lash What you are saying is total nonsense. The parents know their girls were taken but don’t want to think about how awful it is anymore.
Imagine if FBI got involved in the case sure they will find something
@@LeeEverett1 many photos were not made public at the behest of the family. in one there are apparently girls tied to a tree, in another, kris with a split head
@Track- lash many photos were not made public at the behest of the family. in one there are apparently girls tied to a tree, in another, kris with a split head
I love this Channel, thank you for all your hard work 👌🏻
I know this story well. Thank you for the thorough work, and perfect narration.
As to Panama, you cannot expect countries like that to be as organized or as advanced, as in the first world. I know because I live in one.
So sorry for these young women and their families.
In the disappearance of these two Dutch girls, there are two situations that I don't understand and I believe that need a more careful analysis:
1-If in the first two calls to the Dutch emergency number, they were already under the control of kidnappers, why didn't the criminals take the phones, the camera and all their belongings?
This doesn't make any sense! No offenders with murderous or sexual intentions would risk being photographed by their victims, or even risk the girls calling the police or leaving a message recorded on their cell phones for when they are found by the authorities.
2- Why don't you have any attempt to call 911 during the night?
What would be the worst moment for two girls from an urban environment, lost in the middle of a tropical jungle?
Do you agree with me that this worst moment would be to spend the night in the forest?! Exhausted, cold, with animals moving on the ground, animal movement in the dark forest, a plague of insects, rain spray, hunger, thirst and darkness everywhere. This would undoubtedly be the time when they would most try to connect to an emergency number, but they didn't.
Trying to explain these two situations, the best way to harmonize was as follows:
Lisanne and Kris decided on their own, to continue the trail past the viewpoint, when they realized they couldn't make it back before nightfall, or because they really got lost and disoriented, they decided to make the first two calls in the late afternoon of April 1st. . Without success, they must surely have screamed for help. They were certainly answered and rescued by someone who heard them both scream, or someone who somehow passed them on the trail. This would explain why the girls did not attempt to call an emergency number during the night, that is, they felt safe to be accompanied by someone they believed to be trustworthy and well intentioned.
After that, they certainly went with that someone, to some nearby property, where they continued to be deceived by lies that reassured them, but that at dawn and after a night's sleep, they always tried to make another emergency call, until the cell phone battery has discharged.
It was at that moment that this someone realized that they were totally incommunicado and certainly decided to attack and take their belongings that were all inside the backpack.
From then on, all the evil that befell the girls began.
In my opinion, between the moment the last cell phone ran out of charge and the dawn of the 8th, Kris Kremers was killed, so in the photos taken on the 8th, only the hair of a lifeless body of Kris appears, trying to simulate a disappearance, with them lost in the night trying to signal their position in the woods and kris dead in Lisanne's arms (who doesn't appear in the photos) as it's the killer planting false evidence, not Lisanne!
As the pieces of Lisanne Froon's skin were found in mid-June, in an initial state of decomposition, this shows that Lisanne was killed in early June and was under the control of this someone who killed her, for about 60 days. She was the last to die.
Note 1: Seeing the holes in Kris' Jeans, it shows that her dead body was dragged a short distance, where it was thrown. That is, this may indicate that the place where Kris and Lisanne were killed and the bodies were subjected to a chemical treatment for dismemberment and then concealment, are very close to each other, and may be in the vicinity of this property where they felt "safe" .
Note 2: The photo of Kris' hair at night, may not have been photographed in the forest, but in a closed and dark environment.
Note 3: Kris' boot found, was it clean and without any remains inside? No animal in the forest, would be interested in carrying a leather boot in her mouth! It's not food! That's how the animals would see this boot, any object, they would have smelled it and gone. That boot was taken to the forest by the killer.
Note 4: The police know of more evidence, maybe even the photo that was deleted. At the very least, they want to make some strategic use.
Conclusion: Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon, were held captive in an environment they thought was safe, were killed, stripped naked, with the bodies being dismembered by some chemical process as yet unknown. Some dismembered parts, along with the girls' boots, clothes and backpack with all the girls' belongings, were deliberately abandoned along the straight-line trail to create false leads and simulate that the girls died of hunger and thirst after getting lost in the deep in the forest.
The death of these innocent girls touched me a lot! This is my small contribution to unravel their deaths and thus lead to a punishment, the possible murderer and the possible collaborators.
Fortaleza-CE, Brazil.
I very much hope that Jesus Christ will comfort Kris and Lisanne's parents.
Your analysis is the best and I also think that this is a murder case done by locals. I believe both of the tour guides are involved together with, perhaps, one or two villagers. All those attempted 911 calls were made after the girls were killed in order to confuse the investigations. There are killer or killers in that area and I think the police knows exactly but they will not tell you. Don't go to these so called 'banana republics' 🖐🚫❌👉🍌🍌🍌🍌🍌👉💀💀
Think about this care quite often. It’s obvious what happened to these girls and it’s such a shame that flat out nothing will ever be done. Hopefully it can be a lesson to future travelers to not make the same mistakes. Truly tragic and very sad case.
This case haunts me. I can't even IMAGINE how it haunts their parents. Those poor parents. That poor mother on the film where they were searching. It breaks my heart. I wish we knew exactly what happened to the girls. All of these details (with the phones and the camera) only make it worse. Their parents must constantly imagine them suffering. My heart goes out to them. I know it's not my place to want answers, but I do. Those sweet girls.
By the way - you're really good at making these videos. Respectable and not sensational or cartoon-like as so many other people do.
One of the best vids on this case! Thanks ladies!
I wonder if they were scared by someone potentially trying to kill them and ran away causing them to get lost. That would explain the blood on her head. They could have been attacked and then escaped also. Who knows. Just very sad
They propably saw someone or something thats why the in the last pics kris looks worried.then something happened wich made them run away off the trail.they were lost for a couple of days.then the same guy or different guy found them and killed them.he made all these 90 pictures because he didnt know cameras and was curious
I also think maybe the dog ran off they gave chase and one of them injured themselves and then also got lost.
I have no issues with the girls behavior and trying to work out why they did things, it won’t make sense. But by then the were going mad or had exhaustion.
You have 2 young attractive looking girls by themselves with no guide in a foreign country known for violence, rape, and abductions without even a satellite phone.
Unfortunately it isn't surprising in the slightest.
I agree that what I think happened they were followed...
The other issues is why the guide went and looked for them, they were young backpackers. I can’t imagine anyone at anytime would be so concerned that they didn’t turn up for a guided tour that they looked for them the next day....
So glad your channel popped up in my feed.. I am binge watching, for about three or four days now 😅 thanks for all the work you put into these videos..
People get lost in the woods all of the time. Very sad story
Like Hansel and Gretel
This is my worst nightmare 😩😭 my stomach gets all twisted in knots when I think about it
These are the reasons we should believe they were murdered
1. The backpack was found after they searched the same area and in a better state than any other of their personal belongings
2. The deleted picture was actually deleted from a computer so that's why it couldn't be recovered
3. The bones were bleached with fosfurus a very sticky and dangerous chemical used in military grades weapons
4. They reported they in their diary said they were being followed by a "creep"
5. The skin was placed after the bones like they didn't have so much time for the skin to disintegrate so most likely their skin was put after they were murdered
6. They weren't using the phone if you look at the phone calls there was one that actually connected but the person using their phone hung up and it lasted 1 sec, the killer most likely knew there was no signal
7. The bones were actually found after they literally went trail up 3 times so like I said they were put up later
8. The were actually other missing people after them and before them, in one of those were a german women who was lost and kept secret by their search party and raped she managed to escape
so yeah.
Provide a source for the diary bit please, also the picture being deleted from a computer.
@@tien4930 Do your own research !
@@adambane1719 i have, and i can provide no source for most of the things mentioned in this comment. That’s why i’m asking for one. How about, don’t make up random shit about 2 girls who died horribly, is that too much to ask?
@@tien4930 How about, its people like you who are too lazy to research events for themselves that are equally the problem here.
You just want to be spoon fed everything, instead of using your own effort.
Phosphor is also a natural substance. In the human body most of it in bones...
What you failed to mention was, the “deleted photo” wasn’t just “deleted” and thrown into the the camera’s “trash”.
Someone had to have used a computer, to get into the camera and manually delete/remove That One pic, in order to not be able to recover it.
That theory makes no sense to me. Why would someone go through all of that trouble to permanently delete ONE photo when they could just throw the entire phone away??
@@mrsx7944 these whole case has many weird things like that. Like why where pictures ONLY taken on that 7th night?
@@billblaski9523 bc something happened that night and they needed to see
Or maybe one of the girls just deleted it accidentally in their confusion and disorientation due to dehydration and heat exhaustion.
The Ravens Room,
Can't be done permanently without a computer.
The Panamanian police were messing with the camera and phones for weeks before they handed them over to the Dutch. Did the police manipulate things to make it look like an accident instead of the murder that it probably was? Wrapped it up nice and quickly, or so they thought.
I just found your channel and I subscribed. I’m from Australia. You have awesome videos and well done. Keep it up your awesome. Go’s bless. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
The CZcams channel Backpackercoach just figured out that the nighttime pictures were taken from inside of a cave. The rock with a ribbon is the side of the cave wall. Not the ground they were laying on. Someone was laying on their back taking pictures from inside of the cave.
I lived most of my life in Panama and am fluent in Spanish. The place where they went missing is in a rainforest which as well as any jungle in the province of Darien aka “green hell” by the USArmy troops that trained in jungle operations can tell you, is NEVER a place you want to just go trekking into without real knowledge of the terrain and experience in jungle survival procedures. I lived in Panama for over 3 decades and not once did I nor anyone else I know ever feel the least bit of inclination to enter the jungles/rainforests here. They were innocents thinking the jungles of Central America are the same as the forests back home….wish I could’ve advised them not to go into the rainforest at all. Plenty of dangers like fer de lances (vipers) and wild animals! My Dad taught at the Jungle Warfare Training Center at Fort Sherman(now defunct as all of US SOUTHCOM in Panama since 2000). Tragic!! God rest their souls. Que Dios los guarde y que le de Paz a sus familiares.
It's not rainforest, it's called cloud forest, totally different flora, besides that, this is a well frequented trail u cannot get out left or right or even falling down
What a sad and devastating case can't even imagine what there parents went through and are still dealing with today..it's really a very confusing and weird case and I hope they are at peace.
Well done. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Bones from three people who weren't Lisanne or Kris were found in the same area and intermingled with Lisanne's bones? That can't be a coincidence.
It's because there are narco trails near where the trail ends. What do you think happens there.
Many documentaries on this stated it's too dangerous due to gangs that live in the area. Another one shows them observing hikers ... It's not a safe place.
@Justin Hoard never thought there could be human dumping grounds but you seem correct that they exist. There is no law in that jungle a d most government officials there would be paid off to keep out of the jungle.
@@gl3832 This is what’s so scary about travelling to unknown locations. You should always do your research before going places otherwise you won’t know which areas to avoid. Some places LOOK sketchy but a hiking trail?!
These poor girls were victims for being young, trusting and naive. So incredibly sad.
@@christiandaugherty6339 how do you know that bro
Really love your channel & content 😊👍 keep up the fantastic work 💛
Couldn't agree with u more baby ❤❤❤❤❤xxxxxxxx This channel is fuckin epic. Great voice fab at narrating it & the content sublime. Can't help but binge watch these videos 😘😘😘😘😘xxxxxxx
@@chrissilvester5663 😘😘😘😘😘❤❤❤❤❤ xxxx
I don’t under why they keep saying there’s blood in her hair in one of the pictures taken, I’ve been following this case for years and I’ve NEVER seen a picture of hair with blood in it, I just can’t see what they’re talking about 🤷🏻♂️
Man this is why u dont visit places that has poor police work and rescue or hike places with no signal
@Zsuzsanna Varga you are too offended by the truth, sweetie.
The interesting part is that the dog returned home on its own. Whatever happened to them had to be targeted at them. Otherwise it doesn't make sense. Also the fact that they found both their bras in the backpack. Who packs their bras in a backpack for a one day hike? I think they were kidnapped and sexually attacked before being left in the jungle or killed.
There was no dog. Wrong video!
@@benburns1180 yes there was, a dog named Blue that was said to have accompanied them and returned solo
This is my favourite channel love it.
This is the NARRATOR that I like to listen to. The voice is soft and calm. She doesn't talj too fast like the other narrator. This one talks clearly and unhurriedly. So soothing to listen to.
They have been murdered. First of all the girls would have send text messages if they where in trouble. The emergency number can be dailed from a locked phone. They would also dail the emergency number a lot often. The perpetraiders did this to cause confusion. That the backpack is found somewhere else with the belongings even their bra's and phones doesn't make sence at all if it was an accident.
They had no service...
Not trying to be clever but two of the things most hikers have is a torch and a whistle, I always had them when I went hiking.
Until this day this is the unsolved case that keeps coming back to me. Things just do not add up for them to perish from natural causes in that harsh environment.
They apparently had a tour guide, he apparently was creepy. He should have been interviewed more thoroughly.
@@truthtyperii7727 Feliciano..
Odd case.
I can see how they thought the way to the waterfalls on the other side of the mountain may not be dangerous and set out to see the falls. Along the way Kris falls, is mortally wounded. Lisaane takes pictures to show where Kris's body is located and sets out for help but gets lost, injured and also dies.
That darn backpack in good shape is troubling. Bones of other people is really troubling.
It doesn't make sense for a killer to leave the belonging. A killer would get rid of the belonging so I don't think they were murdered. I think they got lost, mortally injured and died lost.
Still the intact backpack doesn't explain
Well, they SAY the backpack wasn't there during the first search but it could have been missed. Maybe it was put somewhere by one of the girls and that was why it was in good shape. Think of all the things you yourself have ever done in your life that made no sense when you thought back on it. These girls were lost in the woods. There is no saying what illogical things they may have done.
Killers do not always get rid of belongings, might want to use them as a decoy. One picture deleted on their camera, just one and bones in random places with no animal activity . A 14 hour walk to leave their back pack then go back without it come on 🙄
I really don't understand their thinking. If the girls "didnt leave the path" because they were "not that stupid" why would they have not returned? What did the searches think had happened that would have prevented their return but allowed them to remain on trail but apparently invisible? It's just ridiculous to me to think they were on the trail. If they were they'd have either never been missing in the first place or been found relatively quickly. I don't get it.
Edit: the moment they knew they were lost they should have stopped moving. Walking for days in the wrong direction did nothing but seal their fate.
Very sad 😔
Yea, they either left the path or there was foul play. The searchers say there was neither, but if they didnt leave the path and there was no foul play, what's the other option?
@@charlalar14 I don't think the dog was with them. They would have taken pics of it if it was there. This dog accompanied many other hikers who photographed it in other CZcams videos.
@@charlalar14 I agree. I don't think we'll ever really know for sure. The girls took many pics when they were in Bocas del Toro for 2 weeks & started taking alot of pics in Boquete so it's baffling why there are no pics of the dog if he was there.
Chuck Debbi,
Maybe the dog was really really camera shy and always stood behind whoever had the camera, out of shot 😂
Heard a good line on another video about this case. "In poverty stricken place life is cheap and is treated this way",no doubt the girls were murdered,two of them alone;out hiking? The perfect opportunity for someone to take advantage of the women,maybe someone up their waiting for a chance or someone who would have known the women were going to be on that trail
Tiene su lógica si nos ponemos aunque se vea horrible , en la óptica de los asesinos . Vieron a dos caramelitos que se metieron solas en el bosque y claro no hablaban bien español o no lo hablaban . Lo que hicieron fue aprovechar la fácil oportunidad y jugar en su terreno .
Also, in a poverty-struck country where the state's only revenue is tourism for westerners coupled with a very poor and understaffed+unmotivated law enforcement AND underdeveloped investigating methods+the intent of a coverup - all these are key elements in not solving an OBVIOUS crime case.
Panama is a beautiful country regarding geography, but their already bad reputation of a high crime rate and economical disadvanteges heavily influenced the outcome of this half-arsed investigation.
"Foul play was ruled out." Of course it was. Against all odds.
Strange and sad story.
I love this channel ❤️👍
It seems adventurous to travel to the unknown but it's frightening and dangerous at the same time.
Another fantastic video this case is freaky
This is exactly why I would never hike again. I’ve seen too many true crime stories that ended badly
I have read so many different things about this case - for some reason it fascinates me...
While I think the most logical reason for their disappearance and death is simply that they got lost - there are just a few things that get me:
* The missing photo on the camera that could not even be recovered with specialised software
* The way items were found and scattered against all logic and in pristine condition despite being apparently carried by a river
* The poor response from local search and rescue parties.
If there was logical and reasonable reasons for this then i wouldnt have the little bit of doubt.
Well said
I think some monkeys killed them they’ll eat anything even clothes but not boots.The bareass baboons down have huge fangs.
The items/backpack being in pristine condition makes me actually doubt foul play. Why would killers/rapists/druglords/human traffickers leave such glaring pieces of evidence behind when they could take everything with them and sell back their valuable items, especially things like phones! It just doesn't make any sense.
You are doing the government’s bidding by saying they simply got lost
I’m obsessed with your channel and just subscribed to it. Your tone of voice is so calming and you’re so detail in your description. Thank you so much for not making a real tragic life changing stories about likes and subs but actually telling a sad stories with respect and sensitivity for the families left behind! It’s also a life lessons for young people especially women to be extra cautious whenever they are out and about.
Thank you so much for your kind words and support 🖤
Dehydration can happen exceptionally quickly and can have dramatic effects on your mental capabilities. There have been cases where entire families have died from dehydration walking on trails. This may explain why they went off the track, due to confusion and disorientation from dehydration.
Yes, except they would die quickly as well if this happened. They wouldn't last more than a few days, which contradicts their prolonged phone activity.
@@scct2317 they were on a river bank for all those days they had fresh water to drink the whole time
@@phewizzo1 This contradicts what OP states, then. If this were true, however, they would likely suffer from waterborne disease that would speed up their dehydration thanks to water loss. They would die even sooner!
@@scct2317 the last night time pictures were on a river bed. You can see the river. In the pics. That’s where more than likely one of them slipped and fell and the other probably got injured also trying to climb down to get to the other. That’s why the clothes and items were washed down that same river when they finally passed away
@@phewizzo1 Highly unlikely considering the way they operated their phones, camera and other stuff that simply doesn't indicate they were lost. No food, no drinking water, exhaustion, harsh environment, hypothermia = you won't last more than a few days.
If dogs could talk :(
I watch a lot of these and this made me tear up...
The Killer is Right in front of them helping the search!
The dog ????
Creepiest thing is that you can still hire the tour guide for the same exact tour.
So obvious the tour guide did it…Just breaks my heart at the thought of how scared they must have been being held captive by this animal people call human…
@@annasilva1847 nah.
Seems like you guys jumped about 1k give or take? Think it was like 3.6k when I subbed a couple days ago. Pretty sure. Either way, grats, you deserve all the subs you've got and so, so much more. A lot of cases I haven't seen on my other fav TC channels. You guys and Explore With Us are great about this, and the quality here is every bit as good. Cheers! 🤘😉🍻
What was deduced from the perfectly preserved Backpack and Contents?
Seems a huge clue.
The girls are roaming around lost.
They are making many phone calls.
The Backpack has their phones!
Makes no sense.
Have to watch this again.
Why would you abandon the Backpack which was found, and you are still missing?
@Melinda Francis
Why would the girls be to too weak?
They stopped eating?
And then leave a neat and tidy Back Pack behind?
What are the statistics of starvation where these Dutch Girls went?
@lol lol
What authorities?
What locals?
What entanglement?
Who gave back The Fully equipped Backpack?
@lol lol
Ok.
I'll watch again.
We're the girls murdered?
I hope both lovely ladies Rest In Peace 🙏🏻
I'm sceptical of the murder theories, although they're understandable, given past crimes involving young women hikers in foreign countries. I have myself been seriously lost in the woods twice, and once guided out a young woman lost in the woods at night while I was camping just off the Appalachian trail. Each time it was dramatic how fast disorientation and panic set in - it's the panic-fear that makes one automatically do the opposite of what one should do. It's not like your car's GPS stops working on a road trip. It's more like falling off a cruise ship and watching it disappear over the horizon. I can only infer that in the most serious cases, especially after days of food deprivation and chronic anxiety and stress, disorientation could become so severe that the two inexperienced girls in the Panama case would begin acting almost pathologically confused, while desperate hope may have led them to forego goodbye messages for the sake of attempts to reach local rescue until the batteries in their phones went dead and it was too late.
I've watched a couple of the better pieced-together videos and I found myself getting sceptical of the murder theories when I saw too much bias in that direction. For example, some of the "happy" photos early on in their hike were slightly distorted or the clouds seemed mis-timed from one snap to the next or the one girl was supposedly a little depressed or anxious looking, and to me all that seemed overly subjective and irrelevant to any criminal activity. The idea of any killers allowing their victims to keep taking photos is ridiculous, not just because it creates possible evidence but because abduction and murder (rape also) is about having complete power and control over someone.
Why would a killer and not the girls turn the phones on and off? Only the girls had any reason to do that repeatedly, and if they had the chance to do so around an abductor, they also would have had the chance to escape. The backpack could have been misplaced by the girls in their disoriented state until a villager found and took it, then returned it, dry, to the same (or a different) spot once they got wind of rescue efforts for the owner of the backpack and realized it might implicate them in more than just “finders, keepers.”
As for the photos in the camera, how would taking dozens of photos of the sky at night serve to mislead police? And the height-distorted photo of Lisanne? Digital photos occasionally are goofy like that (I have a rear-view pic of my motorcycle where the panniers look like two different sizes). The clouds at the trail overlook completely mismatching in photos taken seconds apart? Weird, but how does that suggest foul play, when the girls are posing normally? The deleted photo? A tech-savvy killer would only take the batteries out of the phones and throw everything in the river or bury it all, making deleting photos unnecessary and also increasing the mystery to the killer’s advantage. Anyways, why disguise a murder as an accident, when both possibilities (murder or losing their way) are going to be speculated about regardless? I can certainly see the girls using the camera flashes to attempt signalling toward airplane sounds and checking for hazards in their path (note the one photo of a dangerous drop down a rock). Furthermore, why would a killer force-march two victims miles through a jungle, only to kill them in the middle of nowhere? That makes no sense - killers aren't lazy, but what advantage would there be to the killer?
I think these girls just got hopelessly lost, and that leads me back to my own experiences of being lost in the woods - the more you try to guess your way out in a panicked and confused state of mind, the more lost you get. To me, the most important thing about this tragedy isn't how the girls died, but the decisions they made leading up to their disappearance. They'd worked hard as waitresses in the Netherlands to save for the trip and they were young, idealistic and eager, so it's understandable they'd be adventurous. But they'd already reached their goal of living in that small tropical town in Panama and they hadn't even seriously explored the town itself yet. They had a guided hike scheduled for the next day. What was the hurry to get into the jungle? Going to extremes is always a dangerous thing, and getting too adventurous too soon was going to an extreme. I think the girls were their own killers.
Really interesting reading this. People are so quick to jump on the murder theory but I think you’ve explained what is most likely to have happened really well 👍👍
All ok, but what about the bones? No damage from wild animals...
@@dejanmalcic6252
Scattered with remains @14:07 of unidentified people? Just look at how clear the selfies are, then look at the others with their strange compositions and out of scale poses, and all the blurring and artifacts? They were clearly photo shopped, which means the poor girls were abducted. The night photo's are a red herring....
@@charles1964 that photo of one of the girls doesn't look good at all
This is BS and you know that. The emergency calls and phone activity would reflect the harshness of their situation. Moreover, they would quickly die of terminal dehydration. But at least one of them was alive and well for at least ten days since the disappearance according to phone activity, and her phone activity was pretty lazy providing the harshness of the situation. The phone activity itself almost looks like a troll attempt from a perpetrator, it's so rigid and steady.
I do know full well, that some very young people want to explore and have different experiences. What I do not know is why they take so many chances. Exploring and having many new experiences is something one has to take carefully. Young people, in general, do not know of the risks involved in that, anywhere in the world, let alone in places one doesn't fully are familiar with.It doesn't matter where you are in the world, if you are not from there you are exposed to all kinds of dangers. These two girls exposed themselves to a great deal of horribly situations, simply because they thought that the locals were "friendly". Locals are "friendly" all over the world until you find the not friendly one. From Toronto my heart goes to their loved ones.
Also don't understand how parents are sending them to remote areas where safety is issue for youngsters. Young people mostly don't know fear immature, but parents must ensure that their children are safe or avoid such adventures.
I totally agree
I watch a lot of videos about people who are experienced hikers who disappear in the mountains and forests all the time. Most of the time people want to make it something mysterious or find something about it that doesn't make sense so it must be "foul play". In this case it could be but personally I think they got in over their heads, one of them got hurt and the situation just spiraled from there. I wonder why people don't leave some kind of note on their cell phones? They take pictures or use the flash, call emergency, but could take a few minutes to put a note on their phone letting someone know what happened (if they're able), so their loved ones will know the truth. It's just a thought. It's so sad to see young people so full of life and idealistic lose their life so tragically.
es una pequeña area si la comparamos con otras de América.es obvio que fueron interceptadas x mas de una persona .y tal ves sacadas de la zona por eso nadie vio nada a raiz del caso una decena de muertes misteriosas le siguieron al caso 2 chicos bastantes sospechosos el taxista y otros individuos TODO QUEDO EN NADA🇺🇾🇺🇾🇺🇾
No idea why they didn't want to take their chances in some other European country.
This is one of the most horrific cases, there are so many signs of foul play. I honestly don't believe they were the ones taking the photos, they just come off too curious and senseless. Being human is terrifying, so delicate in such an dark and unforgiving world.
Or being a woman
The most plausible explanation I have heard regarding this case is that the girls returned to Boquete (with the dog) and were murdered by locals there. The backpack and human remains were planted where they were found days later. There is a video on CZcams (I cannot remember who made it) giving considerable weight to this theory.
In my view, they were murdered. And died on the first night. I do believe the killer was making the 911 calls to make out to police or investigators the girls had an accident. Just so police wouldn't be looking for a suspect. But, there were no photos of the faces. Why were no notes made in the phone, such as 'this is what happened to us...' Or even a sound recording of their voices? A frontal video recording? Yes, this would take up battery life, but a 5-second clip would have helped. If they were alive, they owed that to their families, right?? A final goodbye. All phones have voice recording. The notes facility in the phone or at least one photo of a face would have shown us they were alive at that point. Regarding the hair, allegedly there was some visible blood on the back of the head hair. This is not confirmed but many people have come to this conclusion.
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Very sad, RIP sweet angels