Defeated by Da Feet
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- čas přidán 20. 11. 2019
- How important is rudder and aileron coordination with respect to learning to land? It's very very important. One of the main reasons student pilots have difficulty learning to land is that their rudder and aileron coordination skills are not as good as they need to be when beginning landing practice. Let me show some compelling evidence to support this idea based on a 1940s CAA study.
I got my Private back in 1996 and it was Rod Machados Private Pilot Handbook that got me through it all. Thank you sir! So great to see you making these videos!
Rod! That worked for me!!! What a great suggestion! After 3 hours in XPlane with 10knots of a crosswind, I manged to land my PA28 IRL on the first attempt and I even have no idea now why I have been struggling doing so before. I guess the simulator practice has build the muscle memory for a cross-control. Thanks again!
2 1/2 years ago, I"d been out of aviation for the previous 3 years after learning to fly. I went to transition my US private pilots license in Australia and flew in perhaps one of my least favorite aircraft - the Cessna 172. I just could NOT land and couldn't figure out why? My very nice instructor was of no help. I then saw Rod's article "It's Da' Feet" and had a light bulb moment.
No problems ever since!... Thank You Rod Machado, one of the best flight instructors of all time!!!
Greetings Scott:
Thank you for that very nice comment. I'm curious about what your "original" instructor did or did not tell you about rudder use. Let me here or at rod@rodmachado.com. I sure would appreciate it.
Best,
Rod
@@Flight-Instructor Rod, he just said nothing. I was struggling with trying to land using the aileron's only and using the rudder to just keep the nose more or less straight. He essentially said, "It'll come with practice". After the fact, I said to myself, "It will never come by using just the aileron's". Once I read your article, I never had another problem. Again, Love your stuff; clear and the best!!!
@@scottstolnitz8918 Thank you Scott. I do appreciate that info. So this CFI is paid to say, "Don't worry, it will come to you." Amazing. Isn't the purpose of teaching to make it come to you faster? So sad the way some CFIs teach (or don't teach). Glad you managed, nevertheless.
Best,
Rod
@@Flight-Instructor He was a really nice guy, but glad as it turned out, I changed instructors and went to a low wing Sling 2 for my (then) BFR - in Perth, Australia. Now back in the USA to do the BFR here (KTOA - Zamperini Field, Torrance) which will be done in a new Sling TSI.
I've been getting some lessons and started with a PA28 but moved to C172. Think I must have underestimated rudder required as well! Thought of Rob when we were coming in to land last night and I was (apparently) much better at positioning. Struggling with the circuit (mostly final and landing) and these videos have been so helpful. More than just getting told I don't have enough rudder authority/I'm pulling too much or not enough. Actually being told how to do it instead!!
My CFI did this drill with me in the flight school's simulator - dramatically increased my rudder skills for landings. Thanks!!
That was very informative, as always.
Thanks Rod!
Thank you, Marco.
Another great lesson! Miss you aviation comedy at Oshkosh.
Thank you, David. I sure wish I could make it there again. It seems that my business and the flight training I do just makes it nearly impossible to take even a week off. My wife and I were going to visit Paris, France next week but I just can't get away. So, instead, I'm taking Princess Buttercup to a bakery for a croissant next week. I know, it's not the same. Since we won't be able to visit the Louvre, I plan on taking the Buttercup to a Jiffy Lube, which sounds the same, no?
Best,
Rod
This video is worth hundreds of dollars. Thank you Rod.
Excellent clip! Great channel!
Thank you, Jon. I do appreciate it very much.
Best,
Rod
Glad to see your CFI Kung Fu is as strong as ever. Great video Rod...
0:29 CFI: OK Paul. I know you learned at Bayport (23N), but we're now at Islip (ISP), so please don't land on the grass, next to the actual runway, anymore....
Great to see you and your vids, Rod!
that slight double smile at the very end =)
That is so true.. If students don't need to control the rudder and just focus on the aileron and pitch, it would be much easier. Wonderful observation and suggestion. Thanks!
Thank you Fly Vancouver. Excellent summary!
Best,
Rod
When I used to fly in Casper, Wyoming, I got my landings perfected but my nose was always off. Turns out my instructor didn't know his left and right (I was told by a former Marine who was his student as well) so when I'd follow his instruction and press "left rudder", what he meant was "right rudder".
Back in the UK and I plan to start flying lessons again - after a 22 year break and these videos are superb. Will definitely procure the Interactive e-Learning Course once I secure a forthcoming contract. But, I see a lot of references to FAA but I'm curious to know if the same will apply to the UK CAA or EASA. Also, while I've done 36 hours in a Cessna 152 (4 hours) and 172 (32 hours), I'm curious if the courses are applicable to the Piper PA-28?
Thanks Rod. These videos are incredibly informative.
p.s. curious to know if you used XPLANE11 for the flight simulator in your video.
Greetings Abdul:
Thank you for that comment and the info. I don't use Xplane but it is very powerful simulation software.
Best,
Rod Machado
Good job - thank you 😊
You are welcome!
The problem when people are learning to fly is that they are mentally used and very familiar with walking on the road, which has a lot of friction to help them start and stop. The same goes with riding a bicycle, motorcycle, and car. All this " driving" has the security of having a high amount of friction with the stationary ground, and when standing stationary or moving, a side wind will not affect the direction, if "Da Feet" has good friction with the ground. Also, the steering and driving wheels on a car do not normally slip with the road. Before learning to fly, potential pilots should learn about what is involved in different control systems. In an aircraft, there are no brakes to apply on a stationary nearby road and so all input signals must come from the joystick/rudder pedals to ACCELERATE and DECELERATE both the gyrations ( say yaw) and any to cover without overshooting the linear action required( as the exact distance from target).
Let us say that the pilot is aiming to line up with a distant stationary target on the horizon and he is not in line with the target. We shall only consider RUDDER control and neglect the delays in the thought, decision, processes, and the delays involved in the thought/reflex physical processes activating the arms of the pilot to move the joystick/rudder pedals, and we shall also neglect the time involved for the rudder inertia to move to the required angle.
The pilot moves the rudder to a particular angle, this produces a yawing ACCELERATION in the aircraft at a certain rate, which is integrated by the MOMENT OF YAWING INERTIA to a yawing GYRATING RATE, then the yawing rate is integrated to achieve a HEADING ANGLE. The pilot cannot keep applying his rudder as he would overshoot and oscillate the yaw in his final required heading, so the pilot must know, through experience, how much rudder to apply and when to centralize the rudder pedals and even give a slight opposite rudder in order not to oscillate in yawing and in the heading. His own eyes and his reflexes come into the equation at t his point. Note the importance of giving a slight opposite rudder to effectively "brake" the aircraft to line up with the target and stop the inertia/ momentum of the aircraft from overshooting the target. Theoretically speaking, in a no-side wind condition, the rudder would be neutral eventually, but life is not that easy, and the rudder pedals must be continuously used, taking into account the delays that the yaw acceleration induced by the rudder has to be integrated twice to achieve the required heading!!!
With a steady side wind, trouble starts as the aircraft would wholly drift sideways and so to hold such a side drift the rudder must be continuously applied and this rudder angle is called THE INTEGRAL OF THE INITIAL ERROR till there is no error in the heading.
With a gusty wind or a buffeting wind, which are quick-acting and unpredictable forces, no human mind can handle that and all one can do is to tune up one's reflexes and operate the rudder pedals in a quick pulse-like action to produce a high rate of acceleration, at an instant and then neutralize the pedals. In such flying conditions, no aircraft structure is robust enough to take the high accelerations needed by the rudder engineering, and the cables or the rudder hinges will certainly fail, so the pilot must know this aircraft well and rather than flying with ZERO OR LITTLE ERROR, in gusty conditions, the pilot would be wiser to let the aircraft sway with the gusty wind rather than give aggressive control action to minimize the heading errors in gusting external states.
There were professional commercial pilots who thought that they could control gusting conditions by applying aggressive rudder control and they actually lost the rudder.
With flying manually or automatically here are the processes required.
1. Sense the action required and decide on it.
2. Know your human reflexes so that the mental signals and thoughts would activate the arms to move fast enough.
3. Apply enough control movement say on the rudder pedal to initiate ACCELERATION TO GYRATE THE AIRCRAFT.
4. Wait for the yawing gyrating rate to be integrated to a heading angle but not wait till the final heading angle as one needs to smoothly decelerate the gyration /momentum /drift of the aircraft to line up, and not to oscillate with the required heading.
5. If there is a side wind, the pilot must apply an integral control with the rudder and this needs the longest delays to achieve as the initial rotational acceleration is integrated to velocity and then velocity is integrated to position and the final error needs to be integrated to apply enough rudder to correct the error angle initiated by the sidewind. Unfortunately, beginner pilots who do not know mathematics are not conscious of such delays and tend to overcorrect too quickly and thus oscillate the heading, and with too much application of integral control, it is easy to go unstable.
Considering that what was said above, in addition to the rudder error corrections, the pilot needs to coordinated it all with (integral of pitch acceleration rate and hence altitude corrections ) and (aileron acceleration rate application and roll integrated to final wing inclination corrections,) and ( throttle application and its correct timing)
Pilots who have a background in mathematics and understand how, say, rudder pedals, induce rotary acceleration only, and then it is the aircraft itself that will integrate acceleration rotational velocity, and this integrated to yawing angle, which if the error still exists, as in a steady sidewind, the positional error needs to be integrated again to produce the integral which is the final steady angle to be applied to a rudder, in order to hold the right heading in a sidewind.
Pilots who have no background in mathematics will fly the aircraft by their instincts, but they can never actually fully understand all the details and the tacit signals timings and delays that are involved, starting from the mind, thought processes to be integrated about twenty different times delays to achieve the final flying steady stable state and it will never be as accurate as an automatic flying system with an engineer and a mathematician at the helm, even if they are not present on board the aircraft.
Flying is easy once one works hard to comprehends his own mental processes, physical condition, and the hidden engineering system which cannot be accessed so easily by any pilot so he better models it with MATHEMATICS!
Those who fly simulators, please do not think that flying is through the application of the joystick and the rudder pedals,
EACH MOVEMENT of a joystick, rudder pedals, or throttle action is a summation of, accelerating signals, velocity signals, error signals, and adding the thought processes to each signal, that movement of the joystick and rudder pedals and the throttle, has within it about thirty-two elemental signals to consider and no human pilot can do that and hence flying is always a compromise on safety and it explains clearly why 70 % of aircraft incidents are due to human pilot error.
With the engineer and the mathematicians, including the stability signals as being inherent in the structure of the aircraft itself and can fly stably " hands-off" the pilot need only to deal with " navigational signals" so it becomes fairly easy. In modern flying engineers and mathematicians do not make stable aircraft and both the stability signals and the navigation signals can be achieved with aircraft moving at over 3000 mph. with, stresses no human pilot can survive.
Absolutely Rod, gaining experience with how to balance the wind and keep the plane on the correct course is key point and solution is rudder. But what is the exact time to use rudder? Does it make difference using rudder Distance to the runaway and feet?
Greetings Uğur:
Actually, you use rudder to compensate for the adverse yaw created by aileron deflection. So whenever you deflect the yoke (aileron), you will have to add a bit of rudder to compensate for the adverse yaw caused by the lowered aileron. If the airplane is flying straight and a right wing drops, lifting the wing with left aileron requires a little left rudder pressure. How much pressure? Enough so that the nose doesn't yaw. So, to answer your question, whenever you deflect the aileron to raise a wing or start a turn, you'll need to use a bit of rudder. Take a look at this video which explains this process.
czcams.com/video/UV8xcm5xsuo/video.html
By the way, you have an amazing voice! To me you have the melodic voice of Julio Iglesias.
Best,
Rod Machado
@@Flight-Instructor "If the airplane is flying straight and a right wing drops, lifting the wing with left aileron requires a little left rudder pressure." I remember you said this years ago. While in flight from MYF back to TOA, the right wing dropped a bit. My solution was an appropriate tap on the left rudder, with minimal yoke input. If I had resolved just with left yoke (seemingly logical) I would have needed even more input to completely correct.
@@PaulGarthAviation Greetings Paul:
Greetings Paul:
OK, that's fine. No doubt there are occasions where a bit of rudder might work, depending on how the airplane was displaced. Nevertheless, I don't see how you didn't end up in a very slight left skidding turn just by using rudder (no aileron) in the way you described. In other words, I don't see how your airplane didn't yaw to the left slightly as you applied a little left rudder to raise a lowered left wing. After all, if the right wing dropped and the nose remains straight (in that instant) you're in a right slip (i.e., the ball is deflected to the right). Left rudder at that instant induces a very slight left turn, which further deepens the skid (albeit a small skid but a skid nevertheless). To remain coordinated, you should raise a turbulence-dropped wing with aileron and use rudder whatever rudder is necessary to compensate for adverse yaw (i.e., to keep the nose pointed in the desired, appropriate, direction). In your instance that would have been left aileron and a little left rudder. On final approach during turbulence, I might make 20 to 30 wing-displaced corrections before landing (depending on the degree of turbulence). In each instance, the flight control are coordinated and I am most certainly not lifting a wing with rudder alone. Had I used only rudder to raise a wing my nose would be yawing right and left in a serpentine motion. I see this all the time in CZcams videos. But if you watch skilled mountain pilots you'll never see them try to raise a wing with aileron along. Their feet are moving in coordination with aileron displacement. If you've ever done coordination rolls (often incorrectly referred to as "Dutch rolls"), then you know the precise technique I'm referring to here. What I find interesting here is that there would be any confusion about how to coordinate an airplane's flight controls. Very interesting.
Best,
Rod
@@Flight-Instructor thank you so much Rod, it's been always pleasure to see you and learn aviation lessons from your videos.
@@Flight-Instructor by the way Rod, l am still fighting, l am playing long game, namely long shot, this is not a job, this is passion for which is to go for it to the end.
Hello Mr. Machado! What do you think of the new Flight Simulator Microsoft will be releasing? Any chance you'll lend your voice to it?
Greetings Tubeloobs:
I haven't seen the new sim yet. And I have no idea whether or not my lessons are still in that package. If someone knows, please let us know.
Best,
Rod
Oh my, I hate to ruin anyone's day but did I hear something weird at 5:15? Are we speaking of Crosswind landing control? If so, keeping the plane pointed straight calls for opposite rudder use (Not Left Ailerlon left rudder...). ??? I'm old and used to hearing things not said so I apologize in advance. Or maybe Rod was using that new Zero Turn Coupe- "The Zerocoupe."
"Keep the wings level with the ailerons and the nose straight with the coordinated use of the rudder pedals as you descend for landing." This is exactly what you should do when making a normal landing. Sideslips for crosswind correction is something else but I'm not talking about that here.
Best,
Rod
Will try that? Any simulator should do?
Microsoft Flight Sim is perfect and relatively inexpensive. Look for rudder pedals on eBay or other discount sites.
Would a joystick twist axis be good enough? I've gotten used to using a joystick on my flight simulator. Also, can you critique flight sim videos?
Greetings Timothy:
Rudder pedals are actually better because the skill transfer is more appropriate for a real airplane. If you look around you can find some inexpensive hardware. And used is perfectly acceptable here, of course. Regarding Flight Sim Videos, it's difficult to offer anything meaningful if I'm not sitting there watching you fly.
Best,
Rod Machado
@@Flight-Instructor I understand about the peddles. Thanks. Not sure I understand the why part about critiquing the flight sim videos though.
@@TimothyChapman Greetings Timothy, no I don't critique flight sim videos.
Best,
Rod
@@Flight-Instructor That's not what I meant. I meant Why is it "difficult to offer anything meaningful if I'm not sitting there watching you fly"?
@@TimothyChapman Greetings Timothy:
You asked a very very very broad question that I interpreted to mean, "Can you critique a video of me flying a simulator." In that context my answer should make more sense." Now, if you want to be more specific with your question I'd be happy to try answering again.
Best,
Rod
Missing here is the HUUUGE yaw from 2 ailerons, over powering the smallest control on the plane . . . the rudder.
Every landing is X controlled, wind blowing or not.
Ailerons control 3 issues; Roll, drift over threshold & supplement rudder directional control on the roll out.
Too small rudder gets too much credit for that which it can not compare with the ailerons being 2 to 4 times the surface area and horizontal to the relative wind.
Greetings Bud:
I'd love to comment but I honestly have no idea what you're saying here.
Rod
Yes sir. I was afraid of that.
GA has ceased teaching the incredible power of the largest control on the plane.
Ailerons control, 1) Roll 2) drift & 3) directional control via their yaw.
2 to 4 times the surface area of the rudder & 2 to 4 times the leverage of the rudder, the relatively unstalled (horizontal to the relative wind) will always over power the vertical wee rudder & cause tunway deviations.
CFI R Fuchs 1507987
Crosswinds?
Paul, crosswinds are not an issue at all for any student who can coordinate rudder and aileron. Think about it. Holding an airplane in a crab isn't a crosswind technique. It's a ground reference maneuver. This is why the Ercoupe doesn't require crosswind landing skill. You land in a crab and the airplane straightens itself out. However, with a Cub or 150, kicking an airplane out of a crab requires the use of aileron and rudder, but in opposite directions. Same with side slipping. Any student that can use rudder and aileron in coordination can easily learn to use these controls to handle a crosswind.
I've never flown an Ercoupe. How does an Ercoupe automatically keep the noise pointed down the runway such that a pilot does not have to worry about that axis?
Greetings Tracy:
The Ercoupe has flexible gear. When the airplane lands in a crab, the gear flex which aligns the airplane with its momentum. Once the airplane is aligned (which happens quite quickly), the nose is lowered and the airplane is essentially steered like a car (although some Ercoupes had castering nosewheels and used brakes for steering). It really is an amazing airplane. It didn't stall, either. Restricted aft elevator travel prevented the wings from ever exceeding their critical angle of attack. This made for an amazing safe airplane as long as pilots flew it correctly. Nevertheless, the Ercoupe did have a rather high accident rate for landings when already-rated pilots flew the machine. Why? Because they didn't know how to land it. The idea was to keep the control yoke (which turned the nosewheel) in a neutral position during touchdown so the nosewheel didn't contact the ground in a deflected position (which would run the airplane off the runway). This was very difficult to do for most three-axis pilots who were new to the Ercoupe. Pilots who learned to fly in the Ercoupe didn't have this problem. Check out my Instagram site. I think I have a short writeup on the Ercoupe there.
Best,
Rod
Switch instructors
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