Star Trek Voyager Ruminations: S2E25 Resolutions
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2014
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Commenting as I go: When I saw this episode I couldn't help but take a slightly different take on everyone's obsession on getting Janeway back, even above Chakotay. The reason is a) no one wanted to serve under Tuvok, b) but since he was now captain they were all strapped in a sort of psychological double bind where they didnt want him as captain but knew they couldnt' say so. So their desire came out focused as a group obsession on Janeway. Specifically Janeway because deep down they knew that an appeal to Chakotay wouldn't move Tuvok, but an appeal to Janeway might. By the way, this is all subconsciously psychological, in my theory they are using the same type of denial and psychological deflection as people trapped in abusive relationships.
One thing I did like about this episode is the fact that, while there was obvious romantic *tension* between the mononymic Chakotay and our ever-so-beloved Captain Kathryn, they never quite crossed the line into outright saying it. They were held back by their respect for each other, and if they actually sat down and talked it out, I think they'd agree that their friendship and working relationship were important enough to both of them that they wouldn't want to go to that next level. The closest they got was holding hands, and even if they hadn't been rescued right then, I suspect they would have gone little further than that. This really fits with the dynamic between the two of them; neither of them is really a good *character*, but they are *characterized* well in reference to each other IMO, both in this episode and across most of the show.
Janeway as Jerri Taylor wish
fullfilment ? Well, that makes
a lot of sense, actually .
Picard and Beverly had a kid.
Like 9 years after this video was made, but still :P
Tuvok did a lot right this episode. Janeway gave him explicit orders, and he fully intended to obey them. However, he should have one, put on the appropriate uniform, including four pips on his collar. He was captain, and should have looked like one. More to the point, it would have helped the crew internalize the permanent nature of the change. Two, he should have established the new chain of command with some judicious field promotions, most notably selecting a new first officer. Who knows, maybe the gravity of being a lieutenant might have encouraged Harry to show a little more maturity (that's also a promotion Janeway likely would have let stand, which would have erased one of the show's most irritating mistakes).
It's bizarre how much continuity this episode has, given the rest of season 2. Denara Pel comes back, the events of Deadlock are directly referenced, and even Faces is mentioned by implication.
As was true in Learning Curve, the portrayal of Tuvok's obstinate inflexibility here borders on character assassination. And I definitely believe I detect Jeri Taylor's writing hand in the fact that Harry Kim, a male, completely and utterly fails at changing Tuvok's mind, while Kes, a female, effortlessly persuades him. Credit where it's due, once his mind has been changed, his willingness to assume full responsibility is very in-character. However, the utterly contemptuous way he shuts Harry down, even in private, just smacks of feminist contempt for male-male negotiations to me. It's true that there are extenuating circumstances in Harry's case - first he had a public outburst, and then he bothers Tuvok in his quarters, while Kes comes to him during office hours. But even so, the extent to which Tuvok brutalizes Harry, while being completely turned around by Kes telling a really, really pointless story about her father, just comes across as the lady writer god-modding her lady characters, and using Tuvok the "safe" male as simply a vehicle to do it.
at about 22 mins in al i heard was tuvix shouting REMEMBER ME!!!
If only they could have blended this plot with Basics!
Yeah I have to agree on this episode.
Just some parts really just made me groan at what was going on. The plot storm that destroyed everything was just ridiculous. And it did feel really abrupt to have Janeway go from where she was pre-storm to suddenly being fully into staying on the planet, not even pretending to hide frustration, but literally just all in.
And was pretty funny that it was mostly just "oh god we miss Janeway" when there was two people left behind XD.
I think that change would have worked really well. That singularity episode from later on had elements that would work great here. If you want to have the crew act like little time has passed, then just have it so little time has passed "for them".
The positives were nice though. Some nice continuity and a plan that came together well. The plan just made sense and it worked.
The term Mary Sue does get thrown around too much. I fully agree. It's very easy to wrongly peg a character as a Sue/Stu. But any well written or interesting character is bound to raise a few alarms if you cross reference them with the traits of a Mary Sue. To some, it might make them uninteresting or 'poorly written' or what have you. But it doesn't make them a Mary Sue.
Mary Sue characters are easy to spot. There really is no guessing or wondering if a character is a Sue. They have clear and present plot armor from the very beginning. They are out of their element and in danger, but never come into any conflict that might hurt them. Indeed, many times they come out better than before it happened. The story swirls around them like a vortex, everyone loves them, and they bed every character that the author wants. That's a Mary Sue. Imo it needs to be the complete package for it to be a Sue.
Lets not forget, a Mary Sue can exist without most of the points you mentioned. It's about the authors idealized character, and sometimes that character is the Martyr.
This, IMO, is the worst type of Mary Sue and the most painful to read. These are characters who do the right thing, but suffer endlessly for it. Much like the first type you mentioned, the Martyr is still very much a story vortex, with tale revolves around everyone's reactions to the characters suffering.
You are absolutely correct. That also happens to coincide with the "self insert" ideal an author might do. I should have included that.
you know the problem with TNG there was no conflict among the crew and that's how Gene Roddenberry did not want conflict among the crew and if there was any conflict it was solved as fast or faster then it started that makes for some dull viewing it's just super boing.
That's my main problem with TNG. I like most of the characters, I enjoy their friendships, and the show does great scifi, but Voyager and DS9 hold my interest more because there's conflict among the characters, and the cast are overall more flawed.
The way you speak of this writer lady, Jeri Taylor(?), makes her sound like a Rowling before she got big and TERF-y.
Did she end up being one too?
So are you doing Basics in one video or two - for the two parts? Because there haven't been two-parters as of yet for you to review... I was just curious. :)
On this review, I have to disagree. 1) Mulgrew and Beltran changed their minds each season depending on the state of the writing on a J/C relationship. 2) The point of the episode was more showing why there isn't a J/C relationship. It's not that there is no chemistry or want, it's a matter of duty. When she finally accepts she may not get back to her post, she becomes just herself as a woman. A main point of this episode. She isn't just a woman on Voyager; she's the captain. 3) Resolutions was a 'what if' episode and it worked well in showing relationship 'parameters'. It showed J/C fans what they were insisting was there and says "In another time another place..." while showing they will remain close but not in that way. 4) And the other captains never had to be reassured because they are male, the Janeway bashers were relentless back in the day. 5) The structure setup was a discovery of sorts. Situation-struggle-needs vs. wants-investigation of both-duty calls-the resolution to go on.
I agree with this, plus showing Tuvok's captaining capabilities was an entertaining sideplot
I'm SO relieved to see a review of this episode that isn't by a mouth-foaming JC shipper. I honestly spent much of this video avoiding scrolling down, because of all the comments I fear seeing by grown adult women who froth at the teeth over this episode like "Twilight" fans.
"Voyager" has been my favorite show for about 15 years, and this episode is one of the worst. It butchers both Janeway and Chakotay's characters beyond forgiveness. Chakotay has only been separated from the Maquis war for two years, he's just been torn away from his Maquis crew he's known for how long, from his friend B'Elanna, and also, this being right before "Basics," he still thinks Seska is carrying his child. And he's supposedly never going to see any of them again. And he couldn't care less, because he might be able to frak Janeway! And Janeway, my god. My strong, stern, capable, pragmatically compassionate captian, is suddenly a weepy waif from a shitty romance novel. She did spend the first two seasons alternating between the strong captain we'd know for the rest of the series, and this pathetic wimp. But it was upped to eleven here.
It presents a shallow one-sided romance that honest to god sounds like Stephanie Meyer--dead serious, Chakotay's "angry warrior" story is EXACTLY like something Jacob Black would say to Bella. This episode not only damages the two characters, but in doing so it does the Janeway/Chakotay pairing no favors. The shame of it is that Jeri Taylor contributed some great things to Voyager and Janeway's character, but her insistance on Mary Sueing Janeway and forcing the JC romance when both actors and the other writers were all against it was asinine, and the show frankly got much better after she left.
That said, I disagree with you on a few points. Which doesn't make your opinion less valid obviously, but I'll jot them down anyway. Kirk and Picard did have an annoying amount of "This guy is the best captain ever!" that had to be emphasized every now and again. And Janeway was no worse once the show got rid of Jeri Taylor. But, you are absolutely right that Taylor's episodes took the Janeway-praise to an obnoxious extreme. And B'Elanna's depression I attributed to her missing Chakotay, who is basically her surrogate big brother.
Also, I think Tom and B'Elanna's romance was brilliant, but to be fair, they basically were just a "Star Trek" version of Han and Leia, so writing it likely wasn't too much of a challenge. I thought Kira and Odo was okay, and was surprised to learn both actors were against it. The more you know I guess.
On a final note, I really love your narration voice.
7xJW OTP
I'm sick of wars between Janeway/Seven fans, Janeway/Chakotay fans, and Chakotay/Seven fans. I say, CAPTAIN THREEWAY!
Arch, forgive me, but did you know that Michael Dorn, and Terry Farrell actually dated one another?
Please stay away from alcohol and drugs.
You consistently say obrien and keiko are well done. I can not disagree more. I find her terribly written. she constantly brought obrien down..constantly was a b plot antagonist for him..came off as shrew and very bitter about his success . initial keiko when we saw her with a school and such was intriguing..but ultimately she became a poor man's Jake sisko. a secondary character that was used to highlight a main character
It wasn't THAT bad, a lot of free-hate from lore for this season :/