Zwilling Pro VS Wusthof Ikon Classic Chef's Knife - (Zwilling J. A. Henckels)
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- čas přidán 4. 06. 2020
- In this video, I will be reviewing the Zwilling J A Henckels Pro versus the Wusthof Classic ''Ikon'' series. While both the Zwilling and the Wusthof are well-known brands, I got asked a lot wich one I recommend. It is not what I recommend to you, but what knife is more suitable for your preferred preferences, so I tried to explain the biggest difference that can help you decide which one is the better option.
🛒S H O P:
Zwilling Pro NA: amzn.to/2PskCC8
Wusthof Ikon Classic NA: amzn.to/35sOSCm
Zwilling EU: amzn.to/371eqrK
Wusthof Ikon Classic EU: amzn.to/377o2kP
N O T E S: In Europe, we have the Wusthof Classic with a half-bolster (Outside of Europe, you will probably only find the Wusthof Classic full bolster, I personally will not recommend a full-bolster, so the Wusthof ''Ikon'' Classic is my preferred choice over the Wusthof Classic Full-bolster).
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Knife Weight:
Zwilling Pro 20CM: 262 grams
Wusthog Ikon Classic 20CM: 271 grams
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*[CC] English Closed Caption has been added make sure to turn it on if you have trouble understanding my pronunciations.*
you always say that zwilling and wusthof is overpriced, do you have any cheaper (exact) alternatives? i've seen some of your other videos testing chinese chef knife, but they're all vg10/japanese imitation steel which are hard steel.
are there any cheaper soft steel chef knives that you'd recommend?
@@bamvicy883 Sorry for the late reply just saw your comment now.
The Wusthof and Zwilling MSRP is very high, especially in the USA $150. In Europe, they are fairly priced at around 60 to 70 euros for a 20CM knife and they usually include a free knife sheat/ edge guard worth 8 euro.
As for the Chinese equivalent version with softer steel:
Western Styled Chef's knife - Xinzuo German Steel 1.4116: bit.ly/2PeGxMh ($30 approx)
(Softer steel but a Gyuto so not as thick and straighter profile).
Japanese styled Gyuto - Xinzuo Gyuto 440C - bit.ly/3hW2Bbo ($30 approx)
Feel free to ask more questions.
@@chefpanko If you want a good knife but want to pay less, check out Mercer Cutlery.
You are not native English speaker but your accent is NOT a problem for any native speaker. It might be a problem for other non native English speakers tho.
I am using 30 years (every day) Zwilling Professional S.
Was bought in Berlin for 112 DM (before eur,)
Great knife.
Every day fun and comfort with a good tools.
Chef Panko does the best knife reviews on CZcams. Focuses on details that matter that others often ignore. It boggles my mind that most knife reviews do not even show the balance point!
I still have old carbon steel zwilling from my granma, its wooden handle and still sharp
Great video! I have both the Zwilling Pro and the Wusthof. My zwilling is developing some stains/water marks while the Wusthofs look like new and being about a year older than the zwilling. I handwash, dry and store in protective cases all my knives. This may be a individual case, but I do think the Wusthof is generally better in quality.
Wusthof knife has a higher quality in terms of material for the blade. The fit and finish I would give it to the Wusthof too (very similar but Wusthof still a tad better). I like the new Wusthof rebranded logo (the one in the video has the old logo).
@Jeffrey Herman have u ever tried zwilling?
They are so similar, and yet so different when you look closely. Thanks for the side by side shots.
I work in a professional kitchen and have the zwilling pro, solid all around knife however really heavy and doesn't keep the edge long. I have a japanese r2 knife for the more precise cut
Panko I have to say I'm impressed with your commitment to this channel ,also you can understand what people wants , you give great advice
Thank you so much 😀
Thanks for this helpful review and the comments below. There are so many options and personal preferences. I like a heavy knife with full bolster. My favourite was Gustav which is harder to find these days. My current is the Wusthof Classic which suits my hand and style. However, the Zwilling Pro S is an excellent knife as well.
Thank you, this was extremely helpful
Wusthof Classic Demi-bolster. Best knife I ever used.
Always been a fan of Wustof and have used them for two decades. Both top quality knives for factory produced and can't go wrong with either for sure.
They are very durable and will last you a lifetime if you maintain it regularly.
Great video! Thanks. I bought the Zwilling. 😊
Thank you. I have Wusthof Classic small set collection , but can't afford at the moment to add couple more needed knifes. I'll look into Zwilling Pro.
Excellent comparison, Zwilling Pro it is (at least for me). Thank you!
I pinch at the blade not the handle so I will try the Zwilling. Thank you!
I have both Wusthof Westen and Japanese knives, they both help me a lot in different ways. Nakiri for vegetables and fruit, Santouke for meat, and Cook's Knife for less stick fruit, vegetables, and meat.
Yeah, each of the different styled knives caters to some specifics, and some will outshine others in particular tasks.
Nice, the first thing I noticed was they were both half bolster.
Thank your for your good work Chef Panko !
Thank you for the nice comment :)
Interesting, I do love the contoured grip of the pro, I was taught the pinch-grip,but now I and looking at the Wusthof knife for my gf and she uses the hilt more.
It is definitely something that many people forget to consider. The thickness of the knives, balance point, where you grip the knife, etc are all factors that should be taken into consideration.
How you use the knives and if the knife properties suits you depends all on your preferences and if the knife assists you in your habits/ style of slicing, chopping, rocking etc.
hope you find a good knife for your gf :), keep observing her while she uses a knife. (where she pinch what cutting style she uses the most, slicing, rocking, chopping etc)
Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the classic demi bolster vs the ikon!
I pinch grip and I have no problem with my Classic Ikon
I'm happy to know I am not the only one who prefers to grip at the handle and not on the blade. I know a lot of chefs talk about how you should grip at the blade but I think it is preference as well as the size of your hand and the knife you are using. But I have never felt comfortable gripping at the blade and I never cut myself by losing control over my knife.
It is indeed a preference. Generally speaking most of the chefs that is training an apprentice will say why they hold a knife a certain way but it all comes down to personal comfort and do what feels the best to you. There are pros and cons. But remember to switch any grip if needed that suits the task the best. Did a video explaining the grips and the benefits and downsides of some. (Speed related if there is no speed involved you can get very precise cuts with any gripping method. But when there is speed involved it comes down to safety practices combined with personal comfort.
I think it's worth mentioning the importance of the abbreviated bolster on some of these knives. Such bolsters make it much easier to sharpen these knives, especially when using an electric sharpener.
WilliamMack, I agree. My friend's wife insists on cutting on her granite counter top. He can't keep it sharp so they constantly bring it to a knife guy who grinds it. It is ground to the point where it won't cut because the bolster hits before the blade. I advised them to have the knife guy grind the bolster along with the blade but they don't want to void the warranty. I bought her a new one and asked her to only use it with the nice wood cutting board she has.
What kind of loon would cut on a granite worktop. Those worktops are expensive! Probably not good for the knife either?!
Excellent review
Thank you! Cheers!
Great review - comparison again! Thank you. What about Zwilling gourmet vs Zwilling pro? I think they are same steel (4116) and same hrc (56-58 I think, you can pinpoint).
I think that the difference is the handle and ergonomics of the knives.
Steel seems the same according to their website, same Rockwell, steel, and factory.
The other differences are how much material they use, the knife is significantly lighter and thinner.
The price difference sits in the ''less'' material used, lighter and thinner. A different handle and no half bolster/cap in front of the handle. Less premium but still the same steel that is what I think based on the information on their website.
Great video and information
Thank you!
Both knives are great but the raised tip is a problem. I'll look at them on Black Friday.
thanks
Not trashing the Wusthof knives but I’ll take the Zwilling knives.
I own both a german and japanese made knives and for fine slicing work I used my japanese knives and for abuse I use my german made knives. Both serves their own purpose.
Both are great, wusthof for me but zwilling feels a tad fancier.
I prefer the wushtof to the zwilling.
... Wüsthof* ... it's only seven letters. How is it even possible to butcher a simple word that severely?
@@einundsiebenziger5488who cares?
Great Video ! i need to decide between one of the 2 as more for abuse work. I don;t want to ruin my Takamura knife !!! just 2 questions (1): do both have the same belly profile ? or one or more curved ? (2) the zwilling appears a tad taller ? is this case or just my perception ! thanks
Profile performs very similarly (but do be aware that Zwilling also offers another version with a more pronounced belly/rounder profile), but if you compare it side by side I would say that the traditional Zwilling is a tiny bit more curved at the front area.
Zwilling is a tiny bit taller on a certain area on the front side. (due to a rounder front profile, the back is the same)
Performance-wise it depends on how you gold the knife as the diagonal bolster is very comfortable to hold as with Wusthof classes does not have the diagonal bolster. But the Wusthof Classic ''Ikon'' version is more designed for a handle grip.
Terms of steel quality Wusthof is better. Longer edge retention takes a better edge.
Knife super quality high...so amazing
Beautiful and Beautiful
Thank you
I love the Dutch accent
Heaviness is a personal preference. Therefore, it would have been nice to have the weight in grams.
Great feedback will try to add all the details in future videos.
Zwilling Pro 20CM: 262 grams
Wusthof Ikon Classic 20CM: 271 grams
Sorry for the inconvenience.
@@chefpanko Both a bit on the heavy side, same as the Wusthof Classic 20cm with the full bolster (260 gr). I own the Wusthof Classic model with the semi-bolster, which is a tad lighter (215 gr.). For me, it´s super comfortable and a joy to use. And easier to sharpen than the full bolster version.
just purchased a Zwilling 9 piece pro set, hopefully I made the right choice since I don't know a whole lot about knives
Hope you like it :)
One year later how do you like the set?
@@drewdabbs418 I think he cut himself by mistake and is now dead
Здравствуйте! Подскажите пожалуйста, к какому ножу больше всего липнут продукты? Такие как, сырой картофель, огурцы и т.д.
Henckels makes great straight razors
I prefer the Wusthoff classic original. I'm not a fan of the skinny handle of the Ikon.
EDIT: I just watched the rest of the vid, and yes, I pinch at the blade, so that's probably why.
How the handle and the complete knife feel (thickness, weight, balance point, etc.) is very important and different for each person.
Thank you for sharing yours :)
I like thin handles, but mainly because I'm accustomed to traditional Japanese handles (octagon mostly).
But when they become too skinny, it causes discomfort for me (Global Classic series):
czcams.com/video/YM7V7JmBKC8/video.html
Wüsthof* knives ...
For less $ than either of these two, go with Icel knives. Very good quality and easy to maintain and sharpen.
hard to find here tho
Guess I'm not the only one who has never heard of that brand. A look on their website not only tells me that it is as cheaply made as their knives probably are, too, even though their top of the line knives are more expensive than Zwilling or Wüsthof. Not to mention that they are not available other than online. Zwillings and Wüsthofs are available EVERYWHERE, are known for decent craftsmanship and mostly sell for way lower than the original asking prices.
what's the best knife that doesn't require much maintenance, easy to not rust? looking for a knife to just pick up and slice through ingredients
I would suggest a cheap stainless steel knife it is sturdy, worry-free, and can be sharpened quite easily.
The only thing you lose is edge retention and it is less sharp, but since it can take a new edge quite easy you can use a diamond honing rod and get the edge back to sharp without problems.
Something like this:
czcams.com/video/d4Z25umj-wM/video.html
Currently sold for approx $15 USD
If you want longer edge retention and sharper performance:
czcams.com/video/2GIIJe4xkIY/video.html
Of course what knife style suits you the best plays a huge role in what knife is the ''best'' for ''you''.
For more information you can visit my website:
www.chefpanko.com/choosing-your-knife/
I am still with a wusthof classic for less money and classic grip.
Unfortunately, the classic version with the half-bolster is not widely available which I find strange.
The Full-bolster of the classic can be bought everywhere, and the Ikon series are also sold everywhere but not the classic half-bolster.
The weight of Western knives, too much belly, being uncomfortable to pinch grip and needing constant sharpening is what led me towards investing in Japanese knives. I don’t by any means think that Western chef’s knives are bad. They have their place and are great to learn on, but I prefer something harder, that stays sharper longer, is more nimble, more accurate and more comfortable, not to mention handmade.
well said! It is always good to know what you prefer over another knife. That is what I try to explain in the review videos of each knife in different styles.
The funny thing to know is even when the knives have the same hardness which normally would mean pretty much the same edge retention the Japanese styled knives will still have long edge retention.
The heavier weight on the western knives has more impact on the edge so it will roll over faster.
The Japanese straighter knives will have more surface contact, therefore, reducing the impact on the edge.
The rounder belly will also impact the knife-edge retention since there is less edge to counter the impact.
The downside of the Japanese knives is durability, but for the majority of the home cooks now we can buy everything precut at the local butcher or supermarket.
And another thing to note is the Global knives they have a clever way of adding extra edge retention due to the factory Convex edge versus the V flat grind.
Over the years Wusthof and Zwilling both have changed their knife-edge going from 20 degrees to 15/14 degrees and adding a micro bevel to hold the edge longer because they can't hold the steep/low angle so they added a special not visible to the eye micro bevel. This will result in longer edge retention out of the box at the 14/15 degree angle but if you resharpen yourself at that angle without adding any micro-bevel, the edge will roll over faster than out of the box. The same for Global once you resharpen it to a V Flat grind then the edge will be noticeable less than out of the box too.
ChefPanko ChefPanko 100% agreed, and you do great work! Western knives are built for abuse, there’s no question about that, and they absolutely hold their own in high-volume kitchens. I just do stuff at home so I prefer precision. I’m especially fond of my Aogami Super 270mm gyuto by Sukenari. It has been used almost daily for a month, and it’s still as sharp as the day I got it - I’ve even checked under 60x magnification with a jewelers loupe, and there’s only one spot, maybe 1 mm long at the very heel, where there’s a tiny amount of edge roll. With regards to durability (and I think you’ll agree with me on this) as long as you don’t move the knife laterally once it is on a proper cutting board, and you don’t try to chop through bones or frozen foods, the edges on Japanese knives will withstand use over time.
Interesting point about the microbevels on Wusthof - I tried taking mine all the way to 12k with no MB, and I though “this doesn’t feel right, something is off” but after trying a tiny MB, it finally got back to stupid sharp, however it didn’t last long.There’s something to be said about the steel used in Wüsthofs and it’s actually the low carbon content in the steel they use. Most people think it’s high carbon but it’s actually lower C content than 440C. The fact that it has added Vanadium and Molybdenum allows it to retain an edge fairly well, but it just doesn’t stand up to Hitachi or Takefu’s steel offerings in the long run (in my opinion), and especially not when you get into powdered metallurgy like R2, HAP40, ZDP189, YXR7, etc. That said, when you get into super steels, the durability goes up, as does the difficulty of sharpening and the price tag.
@@curseofthegreat Well said however we have to keep in mind that not everyone knows what a specific type of steel is and does. It is already hard enough to explain the Rockwell hardness let alone try to explain each of the steel-types to the home cooks that just like to cook and are not knife enthusiasts.
The majority of the home cooks that are just starting and looking for a nicer Japanese knife, will most likely destroy their knives. They will use the new Japanese knife like it is their old knife. So going through small bones, hacking into tougher food, twisting, using it on semi-frozen food (forcing their way through the semi-frozen or in some cases very frozen food), hard bread, cheese, pizza, etc.
Even the VG10 that is quite durable will get chipped by them.
So for first timers that have not researched the knife steel and don't know what it can and can't do, I don't recommend the high carbon category.
If they want to try a Japanese knife I would recommend the Stainless version in this order: AUS10, VG10, R2.
Since a lot of home cooks will keep the old habit of leaving the knife exposed to water (or kids fighting and you have to stop them), since they don't clean the knife after prepping but more like after eating so rust will form on high carbon knives.
The faster rolling on the Wusthof for example is primarily because of the lower factory angle the same for Zwilling since they also changed it to match each other.
The non-visible micro-bevel helped with creating longer edge retention but once that is gone I actually recommend a 17-degree angle vs the 14/15 factory angle.
It is strange to see such an angle on that knife, but I guess that they did it so that they can market their knife better vs other Japanese knives with lower angles.
Since many home cooks won't go into all the details of the material that they use, so they needed a quick way for comparison so factory angle, Rockwell hardness.
However, both the Wusthof and the Zwilling have a very steep price point, especially in the USA if they are not on sale/discount.
Funny cause after I bought into the Japanese trendy trend after a decade of frustration, I’m back with western knives because I miss the belly for rocking & I prefer the weight. Also Japanese knives chip left & right, take way more effort & time to sharpen. I can put a wicked edge on my western blades in fraction of time & because western knives are so much more affordable I can just swap them as they dull. No rust either. Fit & finish perfect on my westerns. Ya done with that trend for kitchen work.
Edit: also had to put new handles on most of my Japanese knives. & brings me to another quality I love about western, the full tang!
j'ai eu deux zwillings , je les ai revendus. j'ai acheté un couteau d'office 8cm et un santoku wusthoff , et je les ai encore. ça coupe beaucoup mieux et c'est facile à aiguiser
Zwillng J A Henckells
Beautiful and beautiful and 1
in a samurai fight the zwilling would win.
I will put my beds on the Samurai! :)
I see a whole new genre of youtube reviews. Harakiri efficiency test
The best German knifes are the Messermister knifes!
I had always believed that "Messermeister" was a hoax and these were cheap Asian knives produced under a German name. But I was wrong. The knives are actually produced in Solingen, Germany - the city where almost all German knive makers come from (such as Zwilling, Wüsthof, Herder). The company's real name is Burgvogel. In Germany, they are quite well known as a traditional German knivemaking company. But because no American can say Burgvogel, the chose a different name for their American market. So for reviews look up their German brand name Burgvogel.
Messermeister is a hoax in that they don't make any knives. They are an American rebranding company. The messermeister Oliva is actually a burgvogel solingen knife you can buy for under 100 usd. Messermeister bought a large quantity, stamped its name on it, tripled the price and marketed the heck out of it on American market. It's a great knife... At 100 usd.
... Messermeister* knives*.
Don't buy the copycat... Wusthof is a go to. It's more expensive cause it's simply better. Chinese stuff cannot compare
Do you mean that nobody in the world can compare to Caidao knife?
Zwilling hat besseren Griff und gesamte Spektrum ist er besser. Ich kaufe nur Zwilling
As awesome as these two knives are, they honestly just can't compare to my Gyutou.
They are both gyutos. Gyutos is just Japanese for chef's knife and not a brand name.
Balance is pretty much useless, unless you are holding with 2 weak fingers. Both of these knives are very bad, especially for cutting vegetables as they are too thick.
For me, the balance point makes or break the knife. Since you have to let the knife do the work for you, it is not about holding it with a weak pinch grip. The assist in wrist motion/ circular motion while rocking is something I personally consider. The added weight, thickness, balance point sturdiness are all factors that should be taken in consideration before purchasing any knives for your own preference.
For each person, there is a different preference, thank you for sharing your thoughts about those knives.
Both knives are being used professionally to cut vegetables, any western cut works perfectly with them.
If you want to make a cucumber roll for Japanese cuisine you need a knife for that of course. Did it with my wusthof classic too but it's kinda harder.
A friend of mine made his wusthof 27cm into a mean laser knife by thinning it out quickly on a machine.
@@emeukal7683 that is fine too if he wants to turn a knife that does not suit him from the start and turn it into a project to make the knife suit his style then that is fine.
There is a huge difference in prep work from Western cuisines and Japanese cuisines.
And like I said everything matters, balance point, weight, blade profile, thickness, etc.
Same as the cucumber maki roll example, you slice and do not rock so a Japanese knife suits that scenario better.
- It is also sliced in the length of the roll and not suitable to rock on.
- Since you slice you don't want a thicker knife to split the food so you prefer a thinner blade.
- There is no use of a rounder belly because of the slicing motion so a straighter profile is better.
- Since you slice, a lighter weighted knife will not tire you out since you hover with a lighter touch on the cutting board.
- Because you use the slicing motion you prefer a knife that can shift the balance point to accommodate that task.
- So a middle pinch grip balance at the blade and if you switch the gripping style to a fingertip grip for the slicing motion the balance point shift to a front-heavy knife which accommodates the slicing.
So in the above scenario, you can tick off the box and you will see the Zwilling and the Wusthof does not fit the above criteria and therefore not useful for your task and preferences.
In the above scenario, both the Wusthof and the Zwilling is working against you instead of assisting you.
@@chefpanko you are spot on.all that I wanted to say is that for western cuisine a wusthof isn't too thick. If u care about more fun (slice onions without sound for example) you can thin it out but it's not necessary. For cucumber roll of course you want a Japanese style blade that doesn't want to rock on board.
But it is a good thing that we see so many variations :) we see more and more fusions that suit each person's preference (and happy to see the adaption of a Santoku by Wusthof for example).
And there are a lot more choices now than a decade back, the more competitors the lower the pricing will be for us consumers.
I personally think that there won't be a ''one'' knife that will suit every person, so I focus on the knife aspect and hope that the viewers get an idea on how to look for their own knife that suits them.
The same for sharpening, the edge that Japanese chefs prefer and the angle, will not suit your local butcher or fisherman and home cooks.
The handles are nothing alike
I love Zwilling Pro bc of the comfortable tapered bolster cap, as I like to pinch at the blade.
Ik smell een kaaskop
🤣
The knife business is a racket rip off. Buy a $9.99 knife and learn to sharpen and hone. You'll be fine.
This was a pointless video. A knife comparison should have a sharpness and durability test. At this point just add in a cheap knife and compare.
Sounds like you were paid by zwilling to make this video for them ...YOU are Biased big time.
Thank you for sharing your opinion and feedback
How is he biased towards Zwilling and paid by them when he said that the Wusthof has better edge retention and is more comfortable with the handle grip?
He said the knives are similar and to get the Zwilling if you prefer a pinch grip on the blade.
So basically he mentioned the positives and negatives of both knives. That seems to be the unbiased thing to do.
And I am saying that as someone who is biased towards Zwilling
How is he biased? He well appreciated the wüsthof's handle design, and also mentioned valid reasons to pick both. His video didn't conclude with a single pick but provided valid points to make the viewer take the decision themselves.
So the next time you make a statement on the internet, ensure to back it up with reason and logic.
Go sweep the floor. Be useful.