New ESP32 hardware design tutorial coming soon! Some comments: 1) I'd strongly recommend using off-the-shelf, pre-certified modules unless you have a very good reason not to. This video is more of a 'fun demonstration', rather than something that should be used practically. 2) Although I haven't had issues so far, the chip-enable cap (C19) value should be increased for reliability (as otherwise the default bootmode and chip enable come up at the same time on power on). 3) The antenna matching network and antenna itself will need to be tuned on the real PCB. These are just ballpark values. 4) There is a variant of the C3 (C3FN4) which contains built-in 4MB flash. Meaning you don't need external flash - however, these SPI pins on the C3FN4 cannot be used. Additionally, I believe the C3FN4 is NRND.
Thanks so much for putting this video back up Phil. Me and the rest of the beginner ESP32 designer guys really appreciate it. Why'd you put it back up btw? Also, for any of you guys reading this, you can just use the ESP32-C3FH4X, ESP8685H4, or upcoming ESP8686 for your new designs as they are either active or about to be released.
Thanks for the video. I was debating on either making the antenna design in the PCB or just get the card with the prebuilt antenna. After review of the price, i think its work the extra 50 cents. Unless I somehow sell 100,000 units lol.
Once again, Phil has come to the rescue by making a video of exactly what I need, as if by telepathy. This is the 2nd time this has happened and that’s strange.
Glad to hear the videos are helpful - it's a sorry state of affairs when it's this way round though :(
Před rokem+7
@@PhilsLab The course was very theory-heavy. We never got to actually design a PCB, build it and bring it up. Thanks to your videos, I'm more confident now designing my own PCBs.
i need to say that you are the best embedded systems channel on youtube by far. watching your videos motivate me to learn more and more and tbh comparing myself to last year i've improved a lot in pcb designs and it's thanks to your videos and robert feranec's. hope you continue this quality containt and thanks for the efforts.
I just want to thank you for your free videos that you release on these topics. It has led me to discover what I want to study in college end goninto as a career. Thanks Phil
I have just discovered your channel today and have been watching several of your videos on KiCad and I have picked up a wealth of information, I happen to be in my mid-seventies, a retired electronics design engineer, very much into RF design, and this old dog is still learning new tricks. Well done, Mate! Looking forward to watching more of your Great instructional videos .
Aww. As someone who’s 25, I always worried that I won’t be able to do as much or learn as much when I’m older because I’m already so much slower than I was since I was a teenager, glad to know that you can still do cool stuff when you age !
I was looking for antenna design for esp all over the internet, but all of them were difficult and I lost hope. Now I got your notification, let's see.
Ironically as it may sound, I was trying to design a depth measure system using the same MCU and a ToF but I found myself with difficulties specially designing the antenna part. So thank you once again Phil, for the wonderful surprises, and help you've been giving me. Waiting for your new course.
As a rookie PCB designer, I am always in awe of what you do taking us to the design considerations used to produce boards that we buy off the shelf. I have no intention of reproducing this particular design (obviously above my paygrade) but I enjoyed watching the detail description of this author. Thank you very much professor Phil.
Literally the exact video I needed. Don’t forget the strapping pins when developing the board. I forgot to pull in of them high when I was designing the board and it caused it to fail when programming. Once I added a trace to 3v3 it all worked again
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am designing my own ESP32 based board and didnt want to do what everyone else does and just solder on a single ESP32 pre-built board (the one with the wifi antenea and such, not the full dev board, tho i've seen that too).... I am wanting to use the SOC direct and then design my own firmware and setup for it... and the ESP32-S3 is STUPID cheap and so simple!!! I just am getting hung up on the design of the memory and flash and such... I think i'll do an SD card for the flash part... but playing around with options... I am doing an external antenea plug in on the board since it will be in a case and wanted to have the full range available. But this helps out so much! i've been looking at recommendations from other sites and reading all the SOC documentation inside and out and printed it all out and marking my notes... This is by far the biggest custom PCB project i've taken on for my own little things... I normally would do the ESP32 and solder the wifi pre-made package board on it. But I wanted something more "professional". Learning to design and build PCB's self taught can be pretty steep learning curve. Only my Electrical Engineering classes in highschool from the late 90's is what I have education wise and all self taught componant diagnosis and repair and small self designed PCBs. But NO ONE has an SOC totorial for me to go through and verify my design and deployment based off the technical and design documentation from espressif direct.
wow, this is exactly what I have been looking for, the CZcams algorithm nailed me with this one. Just throwing it out there, but I'd also be really interested in a guide for how to use ceramic antennas in designs
Your video is great and saved me from making a critical error. I read the docs and didn't see anything about the LNA_IN output impedance (35 + j10) so assumed it was 50 ohm since that's the "standard". Turns out its not listed in the datasheets but is mentioned on the hardware forum.
Wow I've been working on a bare ESP32 project and have been stuck on the antenna part for a while. This video just comes 2 weeks after, amazing thank you so much!
Phil, congratulations for making such exquisitely detailed videos. You expound every detail, offer practical advice and support for your growing community of subscribers.
I manufactured an ESP32-S2 board and the impedance I got on the RF input was very different from the one on the datasheet ( 11 + 1j vs 31 + 1j ). This means the impedance matching network I designed actually reflected 95% of the signal at the 2.4Ghz carrier frequency, it actually worsened the problem instead of improving it, as removing the network and using a 0 Ohm resistor only reflected 50% of the signal. I have to say my stackup was completely different too from the one recommended in the datasheet. It might be worth to mention to ALWAYS leave an u.FL connector on the board to hook up a vector analyzer in case it doesn't work properly (and it will not if you make even a slight change on the stackup)
I might mention, the change I did to the stackup was using 0.8mm thick 2 layer board instead of 1.6mm thick 4 layer board. It also changed the impedance of the PCB antenna from 50 + 0j Ohms to 30 + 0j Ohms. Luckily I left an u.FL connector in place to know this information, and also pads to solder a Pi Network on the antenna end
Sir, could you tell me in what position did you place the U.FL connector? Was it between the ESP pin and the matching network or between the matching network and the PCB antenna? Thanks.
Very detailed video about the whole steps that is essential to create an excellent PCB! But I have one suggestion for improvement that you can comment on: It's necessary for PCB antennas to open solder mask above them. Solder mask dielectric constant can dramatically change the characteristics of the created antenna, because it is located in the path of radio waves propagation.
I guess you could try and control the CC lines through the ESP32 directly, but it's far easier to use a dedicated USB C PD IC, which interfaces to ESP32 via I2C, for example.
You'll have to add in control circuitry + FETs as well in any/most cases, so I'd definitely just go with a dedicated controller that has the right gate drivers, etc. as well.
Thank you very much, Phil. We've been producing boards using the ESP32 modules because we haven't found yet an in-depth tutorial on customization such as this and also the concern about FCC compliance.
Just for anyone watching, there is a version of C3 with built in flash as well (C3FN4, C3FH4, 4MB flash). I've used it on my own board and I thought that meant the SPI pins could be used for other things then but appears that the internal flash is connected to the same pins as they would for external. (yes I know it's stated in the datasheet that these pins are not recommended for other use, but I thought that was fi external flash was used). So good to know so you don't do the same mistake as me. :).
Hi Phil, Nice video overall. It was refreshing to hear you admit that there were going to be many external factors that will impact the overall tuning of the onboard antenna. A very realistic approach since the end user can put the board into a completely unknown environment with various other nearby metalic elements which will all impact upon the tuning and performance of the antenna. It was amusing to then see you worry about the PI matching network to match the 35j10 to the 50 ohms (nominal) IFA impedance. If by some chance your antenna ends up at 50 ohms (unlikely in the real world) without any actual verification / trimming then the power loss from the resulting mismatch is still pretty much negligible. All made more novel by the "close enough" values of the PI elements ;-) I realise the whole point is to demonstrate a complete RF path from the chip to the antenna and you did that well. Some people go to extraordinary lengths to try and get the match of some onboard antenna and matching network perfect whilst ignoring the reality that it will only ever be "right" at that moment in time on their bench lol. Just one more thing, in your layout you had the PI matching network inductor close and parallel to (I think) one of the RF power rail inductors. Personally I'd seperate those or put them at right angles to reduce any possible coupling but it again may make no practical difference! I'm not going to touch the whole solder mask or not issue in the RF path. All the best.
Thank you! I thought to make custom esp32 board with pcb antenna and after research came up with similar guidelines. But did not make it yet ... :) Now I will have more confidence that this thing will work, can't wait for your next videos!
Video is gold, I´ve seen extremely few people going over so much detail and the correct reason behind it over the years. And yes, technically you are being a bit naughty with the USB. As per IF-standard you should not draw more than 100mA continuously before enumeration, that being said, you would probably still be fine, if the first thing that you try to do when the device connects is to try to enumerate before activating the RF section. I do not know the C3 specifications, but I would guess, if you really wanted to turn this into a product with the USB-IF approved logo on the outside, it should not be a problem. But rumor has it, they turn a blind eye with a lot of products anyhow.
This is amazing. I learned so much. I made a pcb a couple of weeks ago and I thought I did quite well but I now know there are so many small mistakes in it after seeing this video haha. It might be fun to do a video about my pcb and point good/bad things out along the way.
@@PhilsLab hi thank you for your reply. I have sent my design in via the link you gave me. If there are any questions please let me know. I hope my design is not too bad 😬
Awesome video Phil, an absolute joy to watch and learn. Was looking into antennas in general and wanting to learn. This would be a great start! Thanks again!
After this being the somewhat twenty-x-ish video of Phil I watched, I realised I have not yet subscrided to this channel, which I "fixed" immediately. I would love to hear and see even more about design considerations for EMI/SI ,because at least to me it appears that most people (including me) have still a lot to learn in this field.
I have found SimSmith (free JAVA-based software) excellent for designing various matching networks. Of course, a basic understanding of Smith Charts is needed but the program will choose "standard" values for the various network types you want to implement and give you a pretty good Smith Chart representation of how it should react (also Bode plots).
Great video! I've been working with ESP boards for years now (developing ESPEasy) and I alway wondered what made one board work great with WiFi and why it worked so bad on others. I really would like to know how the WiFi quality is of this board, compared to other boards when running the same kind of scan at the same location in your house. Maybe also nice to check running some AP on various channels to see whether you hit the perfect center frequency and what the actual bandwidth/range is of your PCB antenna. Perhaps let some ESP board run a few meters away, starting AP mode on the next channel every minute and let your board (and others) scan and compare the RSSI values. Still this will of course also include some offsets caused by the "bad" antenna of the other ESP board acting as an AP. So maybe you could also test using a real access point and test on channels 1, 6 and 11 to cover the entire 2.4 GHz spectrum. Also really nice to see those ESP32-C3 are so easy to wire and program due to their internal USB interface. Meaning I really should start supporting the C3 also in ESPEasy :)
This content is worth a lot, I struggle to find books and Udemy courses that will teach me more about embedded systems on this level. Please consider turning some of your work into Udemy courses in future.Thank you.
Thank you so much for making this video. It gives me alot of insight of making pcb board with MCU, i am wondering you like to add CLC pi filter to the power supply and analog supply, any tips for this kind of filter? For eg how to select the right value of the components. Thank you!
Phil i ove your videos. so clear, clean, ogranized and amazing in general. so informative. please do one with standalon bluetooth audio SOC. I will forever be grateful.
For me the in between here is the Espressif modules. Not dev boards, the modules. They come with the flash already setup under the can and ... quite importanly an FEC Certificate of compliance. The chips on the other hand do not come pre-certified so any product that wants to carry the logo and get an ID has to go through it's own certification, submit it's own test/lab results etc.
Very nice, I was designing esp32 data logger some time ago, and I remember including "reset" circuit connected to the external IC USB to UART and that had Data Terminal Ready and Ready to Send control output connected through two transistors to the EN and BOOT pin on ESP32, that helped with the reset after sketch upload. I wonder if this can be implemented in the SOC when the UART chip is "build in"
I'm currently working on a SAE Hydrogen powered formula and we need a solution for a boost converter. We found some off the shelf solutions but you are slowly making me get the job of developing it! hahahhaha So cool to make the PCB and also the simulation and control are related to my masters dissertation. Oh god i will have to much to do this year
Very nice! Thanks for the video - I enjoyed it as usual. By the way, you should change your wifi access point off of channel 6. According to your new scanner that band looks quite congested :)
Thanks for the video, it is really informative and I am glad that the content is of such a high quality! I had a couple of questions though. First of all, could you have just connected the antenna ground pin to the GND plane on the top layer. Of course adding a via to GND is also a neccessity there, but it seems against any logic not directly grounding that pin to the top layer of the ground. I checked some designs online and I see this being grounded to the top (if the top pour is GND that is). So potentially did you manage to find some information that was against doing this? Another questions is that I see people adding a picket-fence around the antenna feed line and the antenna itself, which should reduce stray signals from antenna entering the PCB and the opposite. I thought it is quite essential, but you seem to have managed to make it work without adding one. I wonder how would that affect the SNR overall.
it is posible to program esp 32 to turn on my water heater when i wolk ,ride home after work from maybe 5/6 miles? and safe for me, and my home in wey - now one stranger cant tarn its on remotly
Great video again Phil, love it. I downloaded STM32CubeMX and have been working through the tutorials. The software sounds awesome. I usually use Studio code composer, I might be switching to CudeMX for a while.
Amazing video again 😍 Hope yo do same video for a GPS module Because i have to put components on the pcb with its antenna but i didn't find much resources
Hi Phil! Great resource to have as I am trying to use the bare ESP32 chip instead of a pre-made module. Could you please shed some more light on the Q24FA20H0020900 crystal you have selected here and how you derived the load capacitors at the 10pF level? Is the stray capacitance something you measured yourself? The datasheet for this crystal is not clear at all...... Thanks
Hi Matthieu, Thanks! As a rule of thumb, stray capacitance Cs is 2 to 5pF (due to PCB pads, routing, ...). You'll need to get the load capacitance of the crystal from the datasheet (e.g. Cl=9pF). Then to work out the value of the load capacitors, simply use CLOAD=2*(Cl-Cs). A ballpark value is fine (due to not knowing the stray capacitance exactly).
Great tutorial. Just one question. Why you don't choose the ESP32-C3FH4 version which include 4Mb Flash memory ?. Is there any downside to this choice ?
Thanks! To be honest, I can't remember why I chose this one - maybe to show how to hook up an external flash? In any case, as you say, the *FH4 version is simpler to integrate with.
Hi Phil, Thanks for the video! Your content is more detailed than most videos I find on CZcams. I am designing a board based on the ESP32. The documentation says that to ensure the power supply to the ESP32-S3 chip is stable during power-up, it is advised to add an RC delay circuit at the EN pin. The recommended settings for the RC delay circuit are usually R = 10 kΩ and C = 1 µF. However, I am not able to find the rise time anywhere in the documentation to calculate the correct values for R and C. how can i find those values
Wow, really cool. First of all, your video with the ESC FOC controller helped me, because I was experimenting with BLDCs at that time and now this year I wanted to start a project with an esp32. Thanks for that. Will there be another video about the ESC and the FOC? Many greetings Michael. The content on your channel is great and so helpful.
Thanks, Micha. Glad to hear the videos have been helpful. Yes, I'd like to make a follow up vid to the ESC design, however, I have many projects ongoing at once, so it can take a bit of time I''m afraid.
I have a similar design, but I use an ANT3216A063R2400A as an antenna. When I activate BLE I hear "rattling" noises. Is this due to a lack of power supply or is it due to incorrect impedance?
Thanks you Phil for all the videos you´re making, i´ve learn a lot on pcb design thanks to you!!. Great content and very professional. Since you make the antenna design topic, if you can, could you make something on the "gnss" topic?, based on a module or an IC. Once again thanks!!!
Thanks, Giovanni! Is there anything specifically to a system with GNSS you'd like to see? Usually there isn't much to incoporating those modules in designs.
@@PhilsLab You are right!, i want to implement a ublox module (NEO-M8N) and i saw that the most relevant component it´s an inductor on the antena line for active antennas. But my insecurities appear hahahaha.
Is there a reason you did not use the ESP32-C3FN4/H4? These do include integrated flash while the default version does not. And thank you so much for this video. This is beyond helpful. I have recently made a design with this chip and it was quite the learning experience to create my own non-module ESP32 PCB. I couldn't believe JTAG was built-into the chip. Cheers!
No particular reason other than showing how an external flash chip would be integrated. The FN4 design is definitely simpler/smaller with a similar cost. Glad to hear the videos have been helpful, thanks for watching!
Thank you so much for making this great, educational video. With the implementation of the PCB antenna and matching network, how do you know if the design achieved a low SWR? Is there any practical way of measuring it?
Something that I would like to know is how do you define the parameters when you order it. Obviously, impedance control is a thing, but what other specific parameters are needed to order it?
As always, a quality content from you Phillip. Thank you for this. Can you also explore STM32WB55 mcu for BLE, We are currently had a designed custom board from this but having some RF issues.
New ESP32 hardware design tutorial coming soon!
Some comments: 1) I'd strongly recommend using off-the-shelf, pre-certified modules unless you have a very good reason not to. This video is more of a 'fun demonstration', rather than something that should be used practically. 2) Although I haven't had issues so far, the chip-enable cap (C19) value should be increased for reliability (as otherwise the default bootmode and chip enable come up at the same time on power on). 3) The antenna matching network and antenna itself will need to be tuned on the real PCB. These are just ballpark values. 4) There is a variant of the C3 (C3FN4) which contains built-in 4MB flash. Meaning you don't need external flash - however, these SPI pins on the C3FN4 cannot be used. Additionally, I believe the C3FN4 is NRND.
Thanks so much for putting this video back up Phil. Me and the rest of the beginner ESP32 designer guys really appreciate it. Why'd you put it back up btw? Also, for any of you guys reading this, you can just use the ESP32-C3FH4X, ESP8685H4, or upcoming ESP8686 for your new designs as they are either active or about to be released.
Thanks for the video. I was debating on either making the antenna design in the PCB or just get the card with the prebuilt antenna. After review of the price, i think its work the extra 50 cents. Unless I somehow sell 100,000 units lol.
I'm hoping is for the ESP32-S3 :)
Once again, Phil has come to the rescue by making a video of exactly what I need, as if by telepathy. This is the 2nd time this has happened and that’s strange.
Glad to hear it's helpful! Hopefully just by coincidence rather than telepathy :D
Next video is Phil's Lab 'Cerebro'...
Ya. Happened to me as well. He's a weird German....in a positive way
@Phil....great job
If I had a nickel for every time that's happened then I'd have two nickels... Which isn't a lot of nickels, but it's weird that it happened twice.
Dude same wtf
I've learned more electronic design from you than the entire five years of my master's of EE university studies.
Glad to hear the videos are helpful - it's a sorry state of affairs when it's this way round though :(
@@PhilsLab The course was very theory-heavy. We never got to actually design a PCB, build it and bring it up.
Thanks to your videos, I'm more confident now designing my own PCBs.
Me too. 6 yrs of grad and 20yrs of work and I never picked up this much.
@ simple question, do you designed pcb with this complexity at school or it was more soft ?
You can use the C3FN4 variant of the ESP32-C3 which has a built-in 4 MB flash memory instead of a dedicated memory.
Nice catch
So, in the C3FN4 variant do you just leave one of the SPI pins as Not Connected or can they be used as normal SPI pins?
@@KPruthviRaajas far as i know, other pins need to be strapped - read the doc!
i need to say that you are the best embedded systems channel on youtube by far. watching your videos motivate me to learn more and more and tbh comparing myself to last year i've improved a lot in pcb designs and it's thanks to your videos and robert feranec's. hope you continue this quality containt and thanks for the efforts.
Thank you very much, Yacine! I'm glad to hear that - hopefully I can keep up with interesting videos!
I just want to thank you for your free videos that you release on these topics. It has led me to discover what I want to study in college end goninto as a career. Thanks Phil
That's awesome, thanks!
I have just discovered your channel today and have been watching several of your videos on KiCad and I have picked up a wealth of information, I happen to be in my mid-seventies, a retired electronics design engineer, very much into RF design, and this old dog is still learning new tricks. Well done, Mate! Looking forward to watching more of your Great instructional videos .
Thanks a lot, Harry - glad to have you here! :)
Aww. As someone who’s 25, I always worried that I won’t be able to do as much or learn as much when I’m older because I’m already so much slower than I was since I was a teenager, glad to know that you can still do cool stuff when you age !
100x better than any college course and free. I hope you realize that you’re helping a lot of people!
I was looking for antenna design for esp all over the internet, but all of them were difficult and I lost hope. Now I got your notification, let's see.
Hope it's helpful!
Ironically as it may sound, I was trying to design a depth measure system using the same MCU and a ToF but I found myself with difficulties specially designing the antenna part.
So thank you once again Phil, for the wonderful surprises, and help you've been giving me. Waiting for your new course.
Very glad to hear that! Thank you for your support, Ricardo :)
As a rookie PCB designer, I am always in awe of what you do taking us to the design considerations used to produce boards that we buy off the shelf. I have no intention of reproducing this particular design (obviously above my paygrade) but I enjoyed watching the detail description of this author. Thank you very much professor Phil.
Literally the exact video I needed. Don’t forget the strapping pins when developing the board. I forgot to pull in of them high when I was designing the board and it caused it to fail when programming. Once I added a trace to 3v3 it all worked again
This was really what I needed! Created a similar board a few months ago, and this video has really answered a lot of questions I had.
Very glad to hear that, thanks!
More ESP32 plz. Great video!
THANK YOU FOR THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am designing my own ESP32 based board and didnt want to do what everyone else does and just solder on a single ESP32 pre-built board (the one with the wifi antenea and such, not the full dev board, tho i've seen that too).... I am wanting to use the SOC direct and then design my own firmware and setup for it... and the ESP32-S3 is STUPID cheap and so simple!!! I just am getting hung up on the design of the memory and flash and such... I think i'll do an SD card for the flash part... but playing around with options...
I am doing an external antenea plug in on the board since it will be in a case and wanted to have the full range available. But this helps out so much! i've been looking at recommendations from other sites and reading all the SOC documentation inside and out and printed it all out and marking my notes...
This is by far the biggest custom PCB project i've taken on for my own little things... I normally would do the ESP32 and solder the wifi pre-made package board on it. But I wanted something more "professional". Learning to design and build PCB's self taught can be pretty steep learning curve. Only my Electrical Engineering classes in highschool from the late 90's is what I have education wise and all self taught componant diagnosis and repair and small self designed PCBs.
But NO ONE has an SOC totorial for me to go through and verify my design and deployment based off the technical and design documentation from espressif direct.
New sub from me! Love this walk thru! Simplified some of my questions I was dealing with trying to figure out via documentations.
wow, this is exactly what I have been looking for, the CZcams algorithm nailed me with this one. Just throwing it out there, but I'd also be really interested in a guide for how to use ceramic antennas in designs
Thanks, Josh - glad to have you here! Great suggestion as well!
Your video is great and saved me from making a critical error. I read the docs and didn't see anything about the LNA_IN output impedance (35 + j10) so assumed it was 50 ohm since that's the "standard". Turns out its not listed in the datasheets but is mentioned on the hardware forum.
Thanks, glad to hear that it helped!
Wow I've been working on a bare ESP32 project and have been stuck on the antenna part for a while. This video just comes 2 weeks after, amazing thank you so much!
Glad to hear the timing's right :)
Phil, congratulations for making such exquisitely detailed videos. You expound every detail, offer practical advice and support for your growing community of subscribers.
Thank you very much for your kind words, Luc!
I manufactured an ESP32-S2 board and the impedance I got on the RF input was very different from the one on the datasheet ( 11 + 1j vs 31 + 1j ). This means the impedance matching network I designed actually reflected 95% of the signal at the 2.4Ghz carrier frequency, it actually worsened the problem instead of improving it, as removing the network and using a 0 Ohm resistor only reflected 50% of the signal. I have to say my stackup was completely different too from the one recommended in the datasheet. It might be worth to mention to ALWAYS leave an u.FL connector on the board to hook up a vector analyzer in case it doesn't work properly (and it will not if you make even a slight change on the stackup)
I might mention, the change I did to the stackup was using 0.8mm thick 2 layer board instead of 1.6mm thick 4 layer board. It also changed the impedance of the PCB antenna from 50 + 0j Ohms to 30 + 0j Ohms. Luckily I left an u.FL connector in place to know this information, and also pads to solder a Pi Network on the antenna end
Sir, could you tell me in what position did you place the U.FL connector? Was it between the ESP pin and the matching network or between the matching network and the PCB antenna? Thanks.
Really good video, explains the design process even to those, who don't know all this.
Thanks you!
Very detailed video about the whole steps that is essential to create an excellent PCB! But I have one suggestion for improvement that you can comment on: It's necessary for PCB antennas to open solder mask above them. Solder mask dielectric constant can dramatically change the characteristics of the created antenna, because it is located in the path of radio waves propagation.
Question: without soder mask, the antenna will then be affected by the finish (ENIG or HAS). Wouldn't that affect also be an unknown variable?
Golly! great video!!!!!!!!!
Thanks, Tony!
Awesome, I've never saw those unique ESP32 design! Thank you for great video.
Thanks for watching!
For my semester project i literally have to implement an ESP32-C3. It is as if god sent you Phil.
Awesome, good luck with your project!
Oh yes exactely what I was waiting for!!! Thanks!
Glad to hear that - thanks for watching!
@@PhilsLab Could the ESP32 c3 also be used to negotiate other USB-PD voltages or would I always need a separate IC for that?
I guess you could try and control the CC lines through the ESP32 directly, but it's far easier to use a dedicated USB C PD IC, which interfaces to ESP32 via I2C, for example.
@@PhilsLab Okay so if it's a size-constrained application it might be possible but if I have the space is probably not worth the hustle. Thanks!
You'll have to add in control circuitry + FETs as well in any/most cases, so I'd definitely just go with a dedicated controller that has the right gate drivers, etc. as well.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us! Great video, as usual, but I would like something similar made with KICAD if possible.
Yeah mate.
Need more videos in KiCad as I'm a beginner.
Thanks for your content! It is amazingly useful for learning. I'm considering to use the ESP32-C3 for my next project 😁
Thanks for watching, Sergio!
Thank you very much, Phil. We've been producing boards using the ESP32 modules because we haven't found yet an in-depth tutorial on customization such as this and also the concern about FCC compliance.
Thanks for watching! Yeah, FCC compliance of course can be quite a hurdle when going the custom route...
I am learning enormous things from your tutorials ....Really thanks
Thanks for watching :)
Just for anyone watching, there is a version of C3 with built in flash as well (C3FN4, C3FH4, 4MB flash). I've used it on my own board and I thought that meant the SPI pins could be used for other things then but appears that the internal flash is connected to the same pins as they would for external. (yes I know it's stated in the datasheet that these pins are not recommended for other use, but I thought that was fi external flash was used). So good to know so you don't do the same mistake as me. :).
Hi Phil, Nice video overall. It was refreshing to hear you admit that there were going to be many external factors that will impact the overall tuning of the onboard antenna. A very realistic approach since the end user can put the board into a completely unknown environment with various other nearby metalic elements which will all impact upon the tuning and performance of the antenna. It was amusing to then see you worry about the PI matching network to match the 35j10 to the 50 ohms (nominal) IFA impedance. If by some chance your antenna ends up at 50 ohms (unlikely in the real world) without any actual verification / trimming then the power loss from the resulting mismatch is still pretty much negligible. All made more novel by the "close enough" values of the PI elements ;-) I realise the whole point is to demonstrate a complete RF path from the chip to the antenna and you did that well. Some people go to extraordinary lengths to try and get the match of some onboard antenna and matching network perfect whilst ignoring the reality that it will only ever be "right" at that moment in time on their bench lol.
Just one more thing, in your layout you had the PI matching network inductor close and parallel to (I think) one of the RF power rail inductors. Personally I'd seperate those or put them at right angles to reduce any possible coupling but it again may make no practical difference! I'm not going to touch the whole solder mask or not issue in the RF path. All the best.
Funny to see you here. I cannot imagine who you may be referring to above... 🫠
Thank you so much for your informative tutorials
Thank you! I thought to make custom esp32 board with pcb antenna and after research came up with similar guidelines. But did not make it yet ... :) Now I will have more confidence that this thing will work, can't wait for your next videos!
Thank you, Dmitriy - good luck with your design!
Video is gold, I´ve seen extremely few people going over so much detail and the correct reason behind it over the years. And yes, technically you are being a bit naughty with the USB. As per IF-standard you should not draw more than 100mA continuously before enumeration, that being said, you would probably still be fine, if the first thing that you try to do when the device connects is to try to enumerate before activating the RF section. I do not know the C3 specifications, but I would guess, if you really wanted to turn this into a product with the USB-IF approved logo on the outside, it should not be a problem. But rumor has it, they turn a blind eye with a lot of products anyhow.
Truly amazing content, a lot of different subjects, HW, SW, indepth practical design. Thank you so much
Thank you for watching, Rick!
@@PhilsLab are you maybe planning on a similar board with some LoRa IC + PCB antenna?
This is amazing. I learned so much.
I made a pcb a couple of weeks ago and I thought I did quite well but I now know there are so many small mistakes in it after seeing this video haha.
It might be fun to do a video about my pcb and point good/bad things out along the way.
Thanks, Emiel! I do design reviews on the channel, if you'd like - send it in via phils-lab.net/contact :)
@@PhilsLab hi thank you for your reply.
I have sent my design in via the link you gave me. If there are any questions please let me know.
I hope my design is not too bad 😬
Very cool video! I design hardware with the ESP32 Wroom modules for work so it's super cool to see a design with the ESP32 C3 chip itself
What does your company make? Seems weird as we are not allowed to use esp32 as it's not 'a real mcu'. We use pic24, FPGAs, etc
Awesome video Phil, an absolute joy to watch and learn. Was looking into antennas in general and wanting to learn. This would be a great start! Thanks again!
Thank you very much! Hope this proves to be helpful for your designs :)
Super impressive and relevant
After this being the somewhat twenty-x-ish video of Phil I watched, I realised I have not yet subscrided to this channel, which I "fixed" immediately. I would love to hear and see even more about design considerations for EMI/SI ,because at least to me it appears that most people (including me) have still a lot to learn in this field.
Glad to hear that you subscribed!
Definitely will be making more videos on SI/EMC techniques.
I was waiting for a video like this for so long!!! Thanks you Phils
Thanks for waiting! :)
Once again, a great video and very informative. Looking forward to the further firmware videos with this board.
Thanks, David - firmware video coming out this month!
Cheers, Phil. Amazing content.
I have found SimSmith (free JAVA-based software) excellent for designing various matching networks. Of course, a basic understanding of Smith Charts is needed but the program will choose "standard" values for the various network types you want to implement and give you a pretty good Smith Chart representation of how it should react (also Bode plots).
Yes, I use SimSmith myself sometimes as well - really neat tool.
Thank you Phil for another awesome pcb project video!
Thank you very much for watching!
Amazing project! I'll hope you'll continue with it!
Thanks! Firmware videos coming next :)
Great video Phil! Certainly a project I’m planning on doing at some point. Love the Wi-Fi name!
Haha thanks, Alex!
I enjoy your AP name being "Cheeky WiFi 'n That"
Haha I've been listening to too much Karl Pilkington...
@@PhilsLab "not getting on a camel" is a frequent reference in my household
Great video as always! Looking forward to more videos on this board's capabilities!
Thanks, Louis!
I love it! only thing missing, is a CAN bus IC (SN65HVD230DR). 😅
great video, always blown away
Thank you, Jack!
Great video!
I've been working with ESP boards for years now (developing ESPEasy) and I alway wondered what made one board work great with WiFi and why it worked so bad on others.
I really would like to know how the WiFi quality is of this board, compared to other boards when running the same kind of scan at the same location in your house.
Maybe also nice to check running some AP on various channels to see whether you hit the perfect center frequency and what the actual bandwidth/range is of your PCB antenna.
Perhaps let some ESP board run a few meters away, starting AP mode on the next channel every minute and let your board (and others) scan and compare the RSSI values.
Still this will of course also include some offsets caused by the "bad" antenna of the other ESP board acting as an AP.
So maybe you could also test using a real access point and test on channels 1, 6 and 11 to cover the entire 2.4 GHz spectrum.
Also really nice to see those ESP32-C3 are so easy to wire and program due to their internal USB interface.
Meaning I really should start supporting the C3 also in ESPEasy :)
I was looking for something like this too…. Phils lab is theee best!
Awesome, glad to hear that!
This content is worth a lot, I struggle to find books and Udemy courses that will teach me more about embedded systems on this level. Please consider turning some of your work into Udemy courses in future.Thank you.
Thank you so much for making this video. It gives me alot of insight of making pcb board with MCU, i am wondering you like to add CLC pi filter to the power supply and analog supply, any tips for this kind of filter? For eg how to select the right value of the components. Thank you!
your videos are soooo invaluable. thank you
Thank you!
You are Awesome
Phil i ove your videos. so clear, clean, ogranized and amazing in general. so informative. please do one with standalon bluetooth audio SOC. I will forever be grateful.
Thank you very much, Srijan!
Great tutorial! Thank you
Thank you!
This is fantastic, thanks
Thanks, Juma!
For me the in between here is the Espressif modules. Not dev boards, the modules. They come with the flash already setup under the can and ... quite importanly an FEC Certificate of compliance. The chips on the other hand do not come pre-certified so any product that wants to carry the logo and get an ID has to go through it's own certification, submit it's own test/lab results etc.
FCC* ?
you have to do the FCC testing for the whole device anyway.
@@martincerny3294 true, so why complicate things? Pre-shielded mcus makes it for easier self certification, where acceptable,jurisdictionally, no?
Great video, thank you.
Thanks!
Could you please make a video on GPS module/ system design
Very nice video, TNX Phil.
Thanks, Nicola!
Very nice, I was designing esp32 data logger some time ago, and I remember including "reset" circuit connected to the external IC USB to UART and that had Data Terminal Ready and Ready to Send control output connected through two transistors to the EN and BOOT pin on ESP32, that helped with the reset after sketch upload. I wonder if this can be implemented in the SOC when the UART chip is "build in"
I'm currently working on a SAE Hydrogen powered formula and we need a solution for a boost converter. We found some off the shelf solutions but you are slowly making me get the job of developing it! hahahhaha So cool to make the PCB and also the simulation and control are related to my masters dissertation.
Oh god i will have to much to do this year
Haha glad to hear this is making you do design work! :D
Very nice! Thanks for the video - I enjoyed it as usual. By the way, you should change your wifi access point off of channel 6. According to your new scanner that band looks quite congested :)
thank you
Thank you so much , very helpful.
Thanks for watching!
For Antenna i'm just using cracked CST studio. For studying it's very cool.
Thanks for the video, it is really informative and I am glad that the content is of such a high quality! I had a couple of questions though. First of all, could you have just connected the antenna ground pin to the GND plane on the top layer. Of course adding a via to GND is also a neccessity there, but it seems against any logic not directly grounding that pin to the top layer of the ground. I checked some designs online and I see this being grounded to the top (if the top pour is GND that is). So potentially did you manage to find some information that was against doing this? Another questions is that I see people adding a picket-fence around the antenna feed line and the antenna itself, which should reduce stray signals from antenna entering the PCB and the opposite. I thought it is quite essential, but you seem to have managed to make it work without adding one. I wonder how would that affect the SNR overall.
it is posible to program esp 32 to turn on my water heater when i wolk ,ride home after work from maybe 5/6 miles? and safe for me, and my home in wey - now one stranger cant tarn its on remotly
Awesome video!
Nice work 👍👍👍
Great video again Phil, love it. I downloaded STM32CubeMX and have been working through the tutorials. The software sounds awesome. I usually use Studio code composer, I might be switching to CudeMX for a while.
Thank you very much, Bill. If you haven't already, I'd highly suggest given the newer STM32CubeIDE a try!
@@PhilsLab I already downloaded it. I got my hands on a STM32 nucleo. I also enjoy using MSP430 series as well.
Amazing video again 😍
Hope yo do same video for a GPS module
Because i have to put components on the pcb with its antenna but i didn't find much resources
500mA.. 15W - 5V 3A with just resistors that's why I love USB
Hi Phil! Great resource to have as I am trying to use the bare ESP32 chip instead of a pre-made module. Could you please shed some more light on the Q24FA20H0020900 crystal you have selected here and how you derived the load capacitors at the 10pF level? Is the stray capacitance something you measured yourself? The datasheet for this crystal is not clear at all...... Thanks
Hi Matthieu, Thanks! As a rule of thumb, stray capacitance Cs is 2 to 5pF (due to PCB pads, routing, ...). You'll need to get the load capacitance of the crystal from the datasheet (e.g. Cl=9pF). Then to work out the value of the load capacitors, simply use CLOAD=2*(Cl-Cs). A ballpark value is fine (due to not knowing the stray capacitance exactly).
Great tutorial. Just one question. Why you don't choose the ESP32-C3FH4 version which include 4Mb Flash memory ?. Is there any downside to this choice ?
Thanks! To be honest, I can't remember why I chose this one - maybe to show how to hook up an external flash? In any case, as you say, the *FH4 version is simpler to integrate with.
Hi Phil,
Thanks for the video! Your content is more detailed than most videos I find on CZcams.
I am designing a board based on the ESP32. The documentation says that to ensure the power supply to the ESP32-S3 chip is stable during power-up, it is advised to add an RC delay circuit at the EN pin. The recommended settings for the RC delay circuit are usually R = 10 kΩ and C = 1 µF. However, I am not able to find the rise time anywhere in the documentation to calculate the correct values for R and C.
how can i find those values
Wow, really cool. First of all, your video with the ESC FOC controller helped me, because I was experimenting with BLDCs at that time and now this year I wanted to start a project with an esp32. Thanks for that. Will there be another video about the ESC and the FOC? Many greetings Michael. The content on your channel is great and so helpful.
Thanks, Micha. Glad to hear the videos have been helpful. Yes, I'd like to make a follow up vid to the ESC design, however, I have many projects ongoing at once, so it can take a bit of time I''m afraid.
Nice bro
Thanks!
I have a similar design, but I use an ANT3216A063R2400A as an antenna. When I activate BLE I hear "rattling" noises. Is this due to a lack of power supply or is it due to incorrect impedance?
Finally, this topic😂
Thanks
Please, include schematics that you have created. ESP32-C3FN4 comes with 4MB embedded flash. What would be the diffrence in schematics in that case?
I used Ti's ISM PCB antenna app note for Lora pcb design, fortunately they had shared gerber so creating footprint was a breeze
Thanks you Phil for all the videos you´re making, i´ve learn a lot on pcb design thanks to you!!. Great content and very professional. Since you make the antenna design topic, if you can, could you make something on the "gnss" topic?, based on a module or an IC. Once again thanks!!!
Thanks, Giovanni! Is there anything specifically to a system with GNSS you'd like to see? Usually there isn't much to incoporating those modules in designs.
@@PhilsLab You are right!, i want to implement a ublox module (NEO-M8N) and i saw that the most relevant component it´s an inductor on the antena line for active antennas. But my insecurities appear hahahaha.
Do you need a metal RF cover over the PCB?
Only if you want it to pass FCC regulations.
While coping your antenna footprint I saw you have a little gap of 0.1mm between Pad 1 and 2 should there be a gap?
Is there a reason you did not use the ESP32-C3FN4/H4? These do include integrated flash while the default version does not.
And thank you so much for this video. This is beyond helpful. I have recently made a design with this chip and it was quite the learning experience to create my own non-module ESP32 PCB. I couldn't believe JTAG was built-into the chip. Cheers!
No particular reason other than showing how an external flash chip would be integrated. The FN4 design is definitely simpler/smaller with a similar cost.
Glad to hear the videos have been helpful, thanks for watching!
An altium, procad and ultimate kicad user. I appreciate your reverence but my unemployed world means altiium isn't an option.
Thank you so much for making this great, educational video.
With the implementation of the PCB antenna and matching network, how do you know if the design achieved a low SWR? Is there any practical way of measuring it?
NanoVNA
Something that I would like to know is how do you define the parameters when you order it. Obviously, impedance control is a thing, but what other specific parameters are needed to order it?
Can you make a video discussing high current or high power switching devices like relays?
Wowee, so interesting!
Thanks, Roman!
As always, a quality content from you Phillip. Thank you for this. Can you also explore STM32WB55 mcu for BLE, We are currently had a designed custom board from this but having some RF issues.
Thank you, Ian! The STM32WB* series is definitely something I'd like to feature in upcoming videos.
Awesome video! Please add firmware videos!
Thanks, Alexandros - firmware vids are coming!
The Espressif guideline for PCB antenna is no ground plane underneath.