The Healing Debate - Part 1
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2014
- www.revelationtv.com/debatewee... Dr Michael Brown and Dr James White debate and discuss Healing: Has the gift of healing ceased for today? The debate was moderated by Presenter Tim Vince (Sky Digital 581 and Freesat 692, live stream: www.revelationtv.com). Our hope is to be a faithful witness to biblical truths in these challenging times. Please pray that the Lord will be honoured during this important broadcast. Do also encourage others to watch too.
It's rare to see a debate where you can clearly see both sides' perspectives equally and also see the deep respect these men have for God, His Word, and each other.
I learned I have Esophageal Cancer recently and, due to liver issues and other underlying health issues, I can't get surgery and may not survive chemo and radiation treatment..
I also believe God CAN and does heal.
But I stand firm in the very same facts the James shares here.
With that said, I am happy and blessed to have brothers and sisters pray for me, but I am not going near those places and people desperate to display their *gifts* of healing.
I trust the Lord will heal me IF it's His will.
And if not, I will be used of him to His glory until I see him.
Still very scared of the process.
Father God, I pray that you heal my brother. That you grant him mercy and remove this cancer Lord and extend his days. Your perfect will be done in Jesus name.
This is very encouraging brother. Praise God for your heart and submission unto Him.
Hope you are better, brother.
Thank you Father for this faith that trusts in you alone. We pray for the obvious in this situation, healing, but we also pray that through this trial you would draw your child closer & deeper than ever before so that your peace may fill & consume him & that your touch will saturate every bone of his, flesh, heart mind & spirit. To your glory Lord. Bless you 🧡
any update?
2 very educated men, both whom I listen to, neither of which I agree with 100%. I lean more theologically with Dr White.
yes true but to bad the word never says to study theology to show your self approved workman that would not be ashamed rightly theologically divide the word of truth. So How should we study the word? Let me help you and you would stop wasting your time. we must spiritually discern the word spiritually not literally Jesus said the letter of the word kills the spirit gives life the carnal mind is the enmity of God. Why? because God is spirit we must worship him in spirit and truth .We must understand the spirit of what the word is telling us. We will always be in darkness if we only study man's interpretation of the bible
@@timvickers947 Has Jesus been resurrected literally? Does God the Holy Spirit approve the literal interpretation of that passage? If so, how is it a dead letter? Which literal passage (not poetic or allegoric, obviously) is not literally comprehended but needs special personal revelation to understand? How do you prove that the particular special personal revelation in that case comes from God?
James White is such a formidable and relatable debater.
He is respectful but he has not at all proven his position scripturally...his focus and whole defence is experience. That is always the fundamental error of all Christians.
@@hischild8899That's not so. White gave plenty of Scriptural evidence and even got into the original Greek terms. When Brown made the assertion that you repeated, White countered it and explained why he got into his experiences.
@@PrenticeBoy1688a large portion of James’ argument was experience. Yes he mentioned scripture, and yes, he threw in Greek terms, but his interpretation was still based on scripture.
Btw, remember Michael wrote, “Israel’s divine healer” for his doctoral dissertation. Meaning he studied healing in the Bible, its philological roots, and the cultural context surrounding the biblical concept of God as healer.
@@Travis_Rosenthal Here's a sorta kinda flow of White's opening statement:
•Scope of the Apostolic gifts of healing
Acts 3: miraculous healings early in the Apostolic Church, Peter's shadow heals those upon whom his shadow was cast.
•Examples that show that the Apostolic healing miracles had already passed away later into the Apostolic era:
1 Tim 5: Timothy has frequent illnesses; dealing with widows in the Church. The implication being that sickness and death occur within the Body of Christ on earth, and that the widows are to be treated charitably, the local leaders aren't instructed to heal their husbands or to raise them from the dead.
2 Tim 4: St Paul leaves Trophimus sick in Miletus
James 1: More about serving widows
•God's will isn't always to heal
2 Cor 12 Our Lord tells St Paul that his affliction has a purpose, and it is His will not to heal the apostle.
Only at the very end did White bring personal experience up. I think he made a valid point, though, by speaking about the reality that most sincere, born again believers will not experience miraculous, bodily healing in this life. If it's always God's will to heal, then Brown needs to explain why the vast majority of saved, born again believers aren't healed. Experience, maybe, but it's still true and needs to be dealt with.
White later clarified that God, in His providence, does still heal people miraculously, but that isn't a continuation of the gift of healing described in Acts 3, and that it isn't normative for the Church today.
All of this, of course, doesn't make White correct, but White did indeed make his case primarily from Scripture, and experience was only brought in as corroborative evidence. Brown might've treated this subject in his doctoral dissertation, but that doesn't mean that he's correct, either.
Glory be to God almighty, that healed me from, Gastritis.
Thank you my God, that u still heal, in Jesus Christ mighty name amen 🙏 🙇 🙌 🙋 🙏
😆😆😆😆
@@larrywarner1630
I don't know what's so funny? But you're not laughing at me...you're laughing at God 👑 the most highly and sovereign. I forgive you.
ada Figueroa Ignore him brother
One of the very few times I've seen Dr White meet his equal!!! The 3 debates etc. Between the 2 that i gave watched are theogical stalemates! Great debate!!
Yes, Dr. Michael Brown is a brilliant guy. I watch him always on YT. The same goes for Dr. James White. Btw, they are friends.
I go to God with no expectations. I expect nothing because i deserve nothing and its by the grace of god that anything is granted to me. Even life itself is a gift granted by the grace of God. His will trumps my desires and he will do his will in his own way.
I left both of these debates wondering "What just happened?" Dr. White obviously prepares for a specific kind of audience and that audience was not the one writing or calling in; as evidenced by the lady who wrote in saying "you are both right and both wrong". This, I believe, was Dr. Brown's strength. He spoke to "his choir" and Dr. White was speaking to someone who wasn't in the room (What do you expect at RevelationTV?) . I could tell "Dr. James" was frustrated that the debate went off the rails quite early (in the first debate), no thanks to Dr. Brown who threw so much against the wall that it was impossible to follow. Again, this appeals to those who don't want to be bothered with exegesis i.e. the more you throw on the wall, must obviously mean the stronger argument. In the second debate, it appeared that everyone, including the moderator, believed Dr. White was arguing that God no longer heals. Dr. White refuted that assertion several times but to no avail. The format was frustrating to watch. Spending valuable time going back and forth from the control room reading irrelevant posts and Dr. Brown's lengthy, emotion appealing responses to simple questions.
Jim Deuvall notice the moderator's questions were largely irrelevant too. It's quite sad. But at the same time, James was prepared for this. He trusts God will use this as he pleases.
I love these guys, they are powerful speakers and GREAT debators.
Dr. Bart Ehrman would destroy both of these amateurs.
@@jdnlaw1974
Lol, James White debated Ehrman. I recommend you watch it, because White won the debate 100%.
That does not change the fact that ONE IS A LIAR OF GOD WORD. You can approach as soft and humble as you may. Truth is truth.....and a lie is a lie. The wolves always come in sheep clothing. If you lie in ONE ASPECT OF ANYTHING, YOU DONT HAVE THE Holy Spirit in you. Oh? You say im lying? I back it up with scripture my people!
1 John 3:6 KJVS
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
If you lie its a sin. There is no middle in a lie. Your IGNORANCE is still a lie of you teach it. And as it is written above in that scripture.....if you sin you HAVE NOT SEEN GOD not EVER KNOWN HIM..
LISTEN. get mad all you want. The ones getting upset are the ones in sin. Now you can't justify being lukewarm and go around saying you still know Jesus.
YOU DONT! I CAN DO THIS ALL DAY PEOPLE. I DONT PLAY WHEN IT COMES TO LIARS OF THE WORD. YOUR EITHER FOR JESUS WORD, OR YOUR AGAINST HIM. YOUR IGNORANCE DOES NOT MAKE YOUR LIE TRUTH. AND YOU PEOPLE SAY DOCTRINE OF MEN LIKE ITS A THING. DOCTRINE IS ONLY OF GOD. Its either interpreted the way God says it is, or your a liar. All liars will be cast into hellfire.
Reason why you should take Jesus words as written and know that a TEACHER OF ANY KIND WILL BE JUDGED MORE STRICT!!
The lady crippled by Satan for 18 years was like Lazurus, who had to wait 4 days in order that God be glorified. Everything has His purpose in it. God uses evil for Good.
I think that a lot of healings are not happening today because they took out an important verse that is in the KJV and not in the others. Jesus said to his disciples after they failed to heal a boy who was epileptic and throwing himself in the fire and in the water "these types of spirits only come out through fasting and prayer" We as christians must submit our whole nature to God including our hunger and our time. I myself need to spend more time with God but also to fast more often. I think we all need to as brethren in Christ.
I've never seen healings only heard stories of healings
Facts
With all respect, that's not a good argument. I've never seen tsunamis, only heard stories.
@@youturntotruth3011 but tsunamis have been observed
So have healings friend! You just don't believe it. I could just as easily say that every testimony about tsunamis is too far fetched to believe, but we'd both agree that's not likely. There are so many stories, books, and videos of healing testimony (observations) just like a tsunami. The reason you believe easily in someone's claim in a tsunami and not healing, is the affect on your life and implications it brings if the healing is true, whereas there's no affect or responsibility if tsunamis are real.
@@youturntotruth3011 natural healing
Well I'm still a cessationist after this first segment but I will say that this has been well presented on all sides and I much prefer the mediated back and forth between two friendly but disagreeing brothers in Christ compared to the typical style of formal debates.
In the opening statements, Dr. White says that God doesn't always heal, though He does sometimes. Dr. Brown says God still heals, though He doesn't do it all the time. I think I can find a way to agree with both of them. ;-)
God absolutely does heal, and still does it to this day, but not always. Even in the bible He didn't heal all the time. Elisha raised the dead, but he himself died of a sickness, and then later a dead man was resurrected when he touched his bones! But Elisha didn't come back to life. That doesn't invalidate one single healing that Jesus did, nor any of those done through the apostles, nor through any believer today. I think one of the main problems is that we don't realize that God most often heals as a confirmation of the Gospel. Personally I see more unbelievers healed than believers, and those healings either confirm the gospel I've preached to them, or they open the way for me to preach to them. It's a wonderful thing, and glorifies Jesus Christ!
DR. James White cleared it up right there in just 6 mins by mentioning the "already laid foundation of Christ and the apostles", the many examples when miraculous healings where not used by the apostles, and that God DOES heal TODAY but "freely and in His own way". So it's not that one believes that today The Holy Spirit's powers are MINIMIZED but instead they are controlled by HIM and not by MEN.
You didn't listen to much of what Michael Brown said. He clearly stated that Jesus is the one who touches and brings healing, and it's the power of the Lord not of man. He states this clearly, and never ever stated that the power of healing comes from MEN, nor that it's 'controlled' by MEN. You really either didn't hear him right or didn't listen and just drew a conclusion about what he thought based on a prejudgement of him. But he never has and likely never will say what you said he says.
Supercurio I think the disagreement comes lies more with what God's will is.
SamOwenl - I don't disagree with you. That's different than what BXJAV was saying however - which is what I was responding to. The Will of God issue is more complex here and definitely distinguishes their views.
I'm pretty torn on this subject myself. I have a difficult time saying "Yes you're right!" to either one of these guys. Or to anyone in this heavily debated topic(John Macauthur, Perry Stone, etc..). There's just something I always ask myself when discerning or learning.. And that is, how would this conversation go if I had it with Jesus our Lord Himself?
You’re literally the only person I agree with here
Jesus would say it like His word says: divine healing confirms the gospel and is for the edification of the church 😉👍🏼
@@Drspeiser yes!
I stand with Dr James White in his views. The book of Revelation 11 doesn't mention healing miracles but miracles of judgement on unbelievers and protection of the elect in tribulation.
The man in the Bible asked Christ "If it be your will, I will be healed", and Jesus responded "I WILL, be healed". :) It's always either God's will or not His will. And that goes for death, life, good or evil. If not, then who's will is it??
We believe Human has his own will,ABSOLUTELY AGREE,but not libertarian,you cant find it everywhere in the bible!,not even scientific,Even God hardened the heart of Pharaoh a lot of time,Compatibilist free will is the biblical one,even jesus want FATHER's will to Happen,And Not HIS will,And you know what? he also says that he CAN DO NOTHING OF HIS OWN INITIATIVES (John 5:30 NET),thanks to proving calvinism
@@ManlyServant Rubbish
It’s confusing to say “we don’t believe it’s on demand” when defending healing gifts… but then you see scheduled “healing conferences” and “healing sessions” all over the place in the charismatic movement…??? Either it’s on demand or it’s not??
This debate got off topic quick. Dr Brown said it right, the issue is sola scriptura. So, they need to debate/exegete Eph 4:11-13 and 1 Cor 13:8-12. Dr White either has to say that “the perfect” in 1 Cor 13:10 is the completed Bible or the Parousia. He’ll be hard pressed to prove that to teleion (perfect) = the Bible. Once he admits that the perfect refers to the Parousia, then he’ll have to change his whole theology on spiritual gifts.
100% agree with Dr. M. Brown. God has never changed. He still heals today. Don't wake me up as I've seen so many people healed and I have been healed. If you don't believe then you can't expect healing.
I think you misunderstood the debates. They both agree that God still heals. However what of the Gift of healing to certain individuals
Montanism is back alive and kicking.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
-George Santayana-
Aligning WITH God is essential to receiving ANY of God's blessins. Just as one must, by faith repent and receive Jesus to be saviour.
This moderator needs to learn to hush. Good grief.
Min. 18. Saying ,,if thy will" where God already showed His will is doubting the God's Word. When Jesus said "if thy will" He in fact asked for another way, other than God's will. Finaly He said "not my will but yours". He never said "if God's will" in conjuction with healing. When the leper said to Him "if You will you can clean me", His strait unswer was "yes I will, be cleansed"
God hears prayer and heals as he wills, but charismatic faith healers don't have the Apostolic gift of healing.
@O' Brien Statham when I used the term Office, I must of mis worded it. What I meant is that many believer make the fallacy in believing the supernatural gifts given to the apostolic church continues today, I don't see it possible if one interprets scripture in proper context.
@O'Brien Statham can you give me scriptural reference on why the gift of tongues and prophecies would continue after the " Last Days" " Day of The Lord"?
There are so many times I feel like Brown is being deceptive. He's been in pentecostal movement 40 years and he's never heard someone call themselves a healer? I've not been in but have lots of friends who are pentecostal and I've come across multiple "healers". This isn't the first time he's said things like this about his defens eof pentecostal movement. Things that are way more common than he believes he claims he's "never" heard.
Didn't he say the same thing withe the recently published debate on cessationist vs continuist
If one office passed all offices passed because there us no Biblical teaching that apostles and prophets ceased.
anyone see that movie 'Leap Of Faith"? there's alot of that going on
Only LORD can heal
Everything is centered around God's will. People are healed, but only when its God's will. Many times its not God's will to heal.
@O' Brien Statham if you are asking why do I " assume" that gifts are an office in the sense that God in the apostolic age did give each individual a gift that no one else had the ability to do so, It is referenced in the Letter to the church in Corinth from Saint Paul.
"and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To EACH is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. (1 Corinthians 12:6, 7 ESV)
And Saint Paul continues to prove that each person had a gift in the apostolic age for a specific purpose.
For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. (1 Corinthians 12:8-11 ESV)
As you can see, I would call each an office by this I meant that each person had his/her position in Gods church.
Dr Brown was actually “listening” to Dr White as Dr White spoke. Just watch Dr Brown’s eyes.
Unfortunately, I think this is James White's weakest debate. He didn't debate at the level that is expected of him, but I think the answer for this is in minute 28:36. What do you guys think?
idd
Agreed. No reasonable person would deny God can heal.
This was not a real debate.
@O'Brien Statham when I speak of end of time, I was speaking " The Last Days" described by Joel 2 and in Acts 2, like I said before, " The Last Days" is not a reference to end of the world, it is a reference to Christ coming in Judgement ( on clouds).
Well on St Paul telling Corinth to desire prophecies not to forbid tongues, that message was for them not to forbid it. All was not fulfilled yet. The rest of scripture was not there yet. When you see St Paul letter to Timothy where he tells him specifically how church should function, prophecies and Tongues no where to be mentioned, why is that so. I believe they where nearer to " the Last days" and those gifts where fading away, they served their purpose to warn an unbelieving Jewish nation.
Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers. (1 Corinthians 14:22 ESV)
Paedobaptism I never thought of that. Very interesting
Amen
1Co 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. so your saying knowledge, it shall vanish away. You have the knowledge to respond so I wonder can you also talk, there be tongues, they shall cease. You have to force your opinion into this verse
@bakothegreat it seems to me you have a complete misunderstanding of the Cessationist argument, as a cessationist we do not claim God does not heal today, the claim is that the gifts office are not for today.
The claim is that these gifts are no longer necessary as the church was established in part with these gifts in the first century. Once the church was established, these particular gifts were no longer needed to establish the church. I still believe that God may use us in any way as he sees fit, but as far as a gift (speaking of the apostolic gifts of speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing, not other gifts) that is ever present in anyone, I believe that ceased. We should not be seeking after ways to appear flashier then the person next to us, more godly, or more spiritual, our minds, our goals, our desires should be solely focused on God Himself. Not how we look, now what we do, we should be focused solely on God. How else can God work through us, if we are too busy trying to look cool or spiritual. Even with Elijah, God was not present in the noise, in the storm, in the chaos...He was the whisper in the wind.
God please heal cancer paraneoplastic encephalitis
@O'Brien Statham I forgot to add Isaiah 28 verse 11, sorry I started at Isaiah 28:12.
For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the Lord will speak to this people, (Isaiah 28:11 ESV) Coming Judgement
In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers. (1 Corinthians 14:21, 22 ESV)
Dr white, am I allowed to download to watch at home and then delete the video? Since your download button is activated for all your videos. I dont want to rob you or break the law... I'm from South Africa. Blessings
Sir why are you debate, i love both of you and i learned many from you please...JOY JISHU.
Putting all our traditions and assumptions aside, Dr. James Whites points are irrefutable and consistent to the normal reading of the bible!! The healing and miracles in the early stage of the Church through the Hands of Apostles is not normative in the current age that being said however, since God is alive and His kingdom is active and powerful and thus healing as an answer of saints could be happened even today. So the question is not whether healing could happen now in our era but whether the gift of healing normative as in the days of the Apostle.
God if your will. Please heal cancer and SFI encephalopathy. Amen
It is not the person who heals, it is by the Will of the Holy Spirit. A verse I stand on concerning healing or any of the gifts is : WE HAVE THIS TREASURE IN EARTHEN VESSELS THAT THE POWER MAY BE OF GOD AND NOT OF US. All of us in the flesh can and do suffer from afflictions. But the Word of God says MANY ARE THE AFFLICTIONS OF THE RIGHTEOUS BUT THE LORD DELIVERS THEM OUT OF THEM ALL.
I agree with DR James White
Jesus said according to your faith be it so done into you
kenneth blair True, but who was He talking to when He said this? When He is speaking to a particular person at a particular moment, it doesn’t mean that He meant it for everyone. If He did, then He would say that and in this incident He didn’t.
Best statement..the Bible must not be interpreted by experience.
This debate highlights a fundamental problem with Christian belief.
On the one hand you have Scripture - which is supposedly God's perfect inerrant word, written under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
On the other hand you have two intelligent men, well studied in Scripture, genuine faith in God and possessed of,and having a relationship with, the Holy Spirit. Both men have a strong respect for each other and their knowledge and essential goodness.
How then can the Holy Spirit that inspired the Scripture that they quote; be guiding these man to take totally different and opposing positions on this important issue?
Is the Holy Spirit with only one of them?
Does the Holy Spirit actually provide man with no wisdom or knowledge of the truth?
Can't the Holy Spirit make its mind up?
I can completely relate to you in your line of thought. Not just on this topic, but others as well. It gets rather frustrating at times, and can lead to disbelief if one is not solidly grounded in the faith. It's happened to me more than once for sure.
But in an attempt to answer, I begin by confirming that God's Word is inerrant, but people are not. People study the Bible for decades, and on the last day of their lives can still make new discoveries, learn truths they were blinded to, and so on. Both of these men are very intelligent and well-studied, but I don't think that makes them infallible, or any less prone to some type of error.
For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. (1 Corinthians 13:9-10)
To further support my stance on this, I refer to Paul's 2nd letter to Timothy where he gives this instruction:
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15) (Other translations say, Study, or Be diligent)
This statement shows that man is not perfect, and becoming a Christian does not immediately grant us all knowledge, perfect discernment, etc and because of that, we need to really study to continue to learn and grow. This includes those who have studied for years already.
Also, for these two men in particular, we must also look at the men themselves. What are they most focused on in their ministries, and how could that affect their views and how they see this issue? Our world has changed so much since the 1st century to the point where people have a tendency to zero in on a particular aspect or two, while not giving as much time to other areas making people more apt to err in the places they are lacking. They have great zeal to work hard in their niches, but quite possibly have lost that first love where your desire is to know God completely. I'm not claiming this of these men of course, just opening a line of thinking that puts more possibilities of various perspectives in view.
So, I don't know if this has helped, or just lead to more confusion, but I hope at the very least it gets you started on the path of peace for yourself in Christ Jesus.
I think this is why the Lord told us not to have anything with debaters, but the problem is what do you do with a brother who you love and agree's with you on 90% of the bible but disagree with you here. Is it important to debate or should we gather together in prayer and suplication asking God to lead us through the Holy Spirit. I think that is more important.
Your false assumption is that the holy spirit is leading both of these conclusions. That is simply not the case.
One of these men (in this specific argument) has based his belief on past experience, and has injected meaning into the text to provide his answer, while the other has allowed the text to dictate. Knowing which is which requires discernment.
Simply put, the holy spirit guides and reveals truth to who ever God wills, one man is guided by unclear understanding, another is led by the spirit.
Just because you are saved does not mean the holy spirit has made you perfect in all things. That will not happen on this side of heaven.
@@studiesfortruth2956 good ansure
James 5 is pretty clear that we should pray with the elders over the sick. What possible harm could come from this unless its a fake show on tv? Otherwise we should practice this in our church communities and leave the rest to God.
Mark 1
36 Simon and his companions eagerly searched for Him; 37 and they found Him and said to Him, “Everyone is looking for You.” 38 He said to them, “Let’s go somewhere else to the towns nearby, so that I may also preach there; for this is why I came.” 39 And He went into their synagogues preaching throughout Galilee, and casting out the demons.
40 And a man with leprosy came to Jesus, imploring Him and kneeling down, and saying to Him, “If You are willing, You can make me clean.” 41 Moved with compassion, Jesus reached out with His hand and touched him, and said to him, “I am willing; be cleansed.” 42 And immediately the leprosy left him, and he was cleansed.
- Jesus heals, according to His divine will and purpose. He still left many sick yet transferred to another town to heal and cast out demons. It is about the authentication of the gospel message, that's why the apostles and disciples were also given authority over sickness and demons for a certain time when they were sent out. But still, as much as we should pray for physical healing, we should desire more for our spiritual healing and growth.
@O'Brien Statham my reply is below.
A lady called in towards the very end of part 2 of this debate, but comments were closed on the part 2 video. Part of her comments included pointing out Paul's thorn in the flesh coming from a messenger of Satan as part of the reason she agreed with Dr. Brown. James White gave a good answer, but seemed liked he could have added an additional point that perhaps was even better. James did not mention that Paul pleaded with God to remove the thorn and God did not. Why then would God deny the Apostle Paul a physical healing if that is what the thorn in the flesh actually was? I would hope the questioner would not accuse Paul of having a lack of faith as the reason he did not receive his miracle. I would have been curious to know Dr. Brown's to response as to why God did not give Paul the healing he was pleading for.
Really appreciate how both these men conducted themselves during the debate. I don't agree with some of his beliefs as I am a Calvinist, but it's hard not to like Dr. Brown personally.
oh I am a full blown reformed person but I absolutely love Dr brown, I love his passion, the way he talks and his overall energy
A Debate with Mr. White and Mr. Brown..
In the study...
With a book...
If you don't get it, get a clue.
@O'Brien Statham 1 Corinthians 13:10 I would disagree with you, I don't see it as a reference to Christ. It reads: but when THE perfect comes, the partial will pass away. (1 Corinthians 13:10
ESV) as you can see the word " THE" is used, the Greek word used is (το) which can be translated to IT,THAT,THE those are never description for a person. If it was a reference to a person as Christ or God It would of read αυτόν which means HIM, or αυτός which means HE, those are description of a personal being. I don't see the description IT, THAT as describing a personal being like Christ. My fellow Christians (Amill or Preterist) who have taken that verse describing Christ they say this describes after death, in the reference when we see face to face, not the last judgment. I don't see it, I think they are mistaken. I think this verse describes full knowledge not in a omniscient way, but finally fully understanding what the prophecies and the Old Testament message pointed to. I believe it all took place after the destruction of Jerusalem, all Gods Prophecies where fulfilled, all we wait for now is Christ Second Coming, it can happen today or 20,000 years from now.
Why is the moderator getting in in this debate! 😂 We know what side he's on!
Yes, sure! He stands along with God's Word!!
I have agreed with many teachings taught by Dr. James in different contexts but I have to disagree here. Did any of the prophets perform the miracles Moses did? Can we discredit the disciples appeared after Moses then? God heals and protects His elected people. One must understand the distribution of gifts and one's calling to serve His kingdom so does the calling Paul had and the context of the letter to Timothy.
Elijah did some of the same as Moses...just saying.
@O'Brien Statham sure, first what I look for, what was the purpose of the gifts and the immediate context to whom the letters it was written what it meant for them and how it applies to us. Ones Eschatology will greatly have an impact on how one will see if " charasmata is still in operation today. For example Speaking in Tongues " languages", we would look to the book of Acts, Corinthians 13 and chapter 14. What many fail to realize the gift is being describe to point to " the day of The Lord" " Last Days". What the majority of Christendom I feel fail to recognize, the Last days described in those letters are not a reference to the end of Eschaton " End of the world" but it points to coming Judgment to an unbelieving Jewish nation.
I will quote verses that point to the reason that many of us cessationist believe that continuest have no answers on why the gifts would continue after " The Last Days". I believe the " Last Days" according to scripture (Acts) has already occurred and the gift already served its purpose. Let's look at Acts when Saint Peter defends the men who had received the gift of tongues and he explains what purpose that gift was for.
But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel: “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy. And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke; the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day. And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’ (Acts 2:16-21 ESV)
Saint Peter is quoting Joel chapter 2, in Joel 2 the prophecy is coming Judgment and it happened by the destruction of the Temple and persecution and killing of Jews by the hands of Nero Cesar. Christ himself said all that would take place in Their Generation. Matthew Chapter 24.
Saint Peter is reminding the Jews once again coming judgment by quoting The Prophet Joel. Tongues and prophecies do not serve that purpose anymore and there is no reason biblically to believe that those gifts would continue now with a different purpose.
Let's look at 1 Corinthians 14, now we have Saint Paul explaining to the Church in Corinth for whom speaking in Tongues "Languages" is really meant for....
*1 Corinthians 12:4-14*
*4* There are different spiritual gifts, but the same Spirit gives them. *5* There are different ways of serving, and yet the same Lord is served. *6* There are different types of work to do, but the same God produces every gift in every person.
*7* The evidence of the Spirit’s presence is given to each person for the common good of everyone. *8* The Spirit gives one person the ability to speak with wisdom. The same Spirit gives another person the ability to speak with knowledge. *9* To another person the same Spirit gives ⌞courageous⌟ faith. To another person the same Spirit gives the ability to heal. 10 Another can work miracles. Another can speak what God has revealed. Another can tell the difference between spirits. Another can speak in different kinds of languages. Another can interpret languages. *11* There is only one Spirit who does all these things by giving what God wants to give to each person.
*12* For example, the body is one unit and yet has many parts. As all the parts form one body, so it is with Christ. *13* By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether we are Jewish or Greek, slave or free, God gave all of us one Spirit to drink.
*14* As you know, the human body is not made up of only one part, but of many parts.
*1 Corinthians 12:27-31*
*27* You are Christ’s body and each of you is an individual part of it. *28* In the church God has appointed first apostles, next prophets, third teachers, then those who perform miracles, then those who have the gift of healing, then those who help others, those who are managers, and those who can speak in a number of languages. *29* Not all believers are apostles, are they? Are all of them prophets? Do all of them teach? Do all of them perform miracles *30* or have gifts of healing? Can all of them speak in other languages or interpret languages?
*31* You ⌞only⌟ want the better gifts, but I will show you the best thing to do.
*1 Corinthians 14:1-5*
*14* Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. *2* For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. *3* But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. *4* He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. *5* I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
*1 Corinthians 14:26-31*
*26* So what does this mean, brothers and sisters? When you gather, each person has a psalm, doctrine, revelation, another language, or an interpretation. Everything must be done to help each other grow. *27* If people speak in other languages, only two or three at the most should speak. They should do it one at a time, and someone must interpret what each person says. *28* But if an interpreter isn’t present, those people should remain silent in church. They should only speak to themselves and to God.
*29* Two or three people should speak what God has revealed. Everyone else should decide whether what each person said is right or wrong. *30* If God reveals something to another person who is seated, the first speaker should be silent. *31* All of you can take your turns speaking what God has revealed. In that way, everyone will learn and be encouraged.
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Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
So, we can’t compare the weak in faith to the strong in faith to determine whether the gift of healing is to be found in all the churches.
I have chosen to believe the doctrine of Jesus and follow him.
Ok, so you can walk on the water too? Or, perhaps if you believe strong enough you can become a god?
That verse has nothing to do with having a gift of healing or performing miracles. It has todo with doing the work of God, which might mean things like overcoming the flesh, keeping faith despite persecution, being burned alive while singing a hymn.
Dr. James White brings as an argument against healing the fact that ap. Paul is adwising Timothy to help widows and not raise their husbands from the dead (I see this very impolite). But in Acts 6:1 at the very begining of the church, having all the apostles in Jerusalem they helped the widows not roused their husbads. Cesationist are so desperated to find some arguments that sometimes become really embarrasing. They use 2 or three verses that seems to show some people were not healed against hundreds of verses showing healing. Their arguments (after we put aside the false ones as the one I mention befere) are greatly overpassed by the arguments for healing and the gifts of the Spirit being for the church in all its history and not just for few years
I want to ask michael brown he said Jesus commended faith what does he mean by that statement if faith is a gift of God Ephesians 2 i think what needs to be differentiated is God heals according to His will it might happen at times it might not at times and what is michael brown position in his role to healing because i think James White is trying to differentiate between the common “healing preachers” that try to copy the apostles actions in healings and what is Gods will and happening today michael brown has pictures with todd white says he has a heart for the Lord allies with other obvious heretics i think this has to be clarified
The major problem here is that we are arguing about issues that are long settled in the work of Jesus Christ.
God has in fact concluded ALL things in Christ, meaning that the righteous standard wherein everything is attained is faith. As long as the faith REQUIREMENT is met along with the RIGHTEOUSNESS STANDARDS, then that particular need is met.
It is amazing that as far as SAVING FAITH is concerned we accept Carte Blanche, that salvation has occurred but contend about the reality and other faith outcomes...healing..miracles and the like.
Do we then discard the great Revivalists of the past...Azuza Street and the power of God....Kathleen Oilman and many many more.
All healing is from the Creator. Whether He heals us ‘naturally’ by way of what He has seen fit to build into us or miraculously in man’s understanding.
There are instances where man’s diagnoses is death from disease or trauma yet the person has survived - a miracle in man’s sight yet normal in the Creator’s design.
Dr Brown won it again. I am gradually walking out of Calvinism thanks to Dr Brown
@@holdthelineministries3640 I watched the very same debate. I followed the presupposition laid down by both men and I disagree completely with the Calvinistic abstraction of God and I certainly disagree with cessationism. I have a mind blowing testimonies with medical proof that healing is still for today but sceptics like you would not buy into it anyway. Gifts are still operating in the church (body of Christ) today
@@holdthelineministries3640 It is all good brother. Let's pray for one another. May God bless you
Neither of them are arguing with each other, their just arguing the abuses of both sides they have seen in their experience. Abuses neither of them engage in...
Dangerous Michael Brown. It’s sad what’s happened to that guy. But I’ve seen his down fall declining even further since his Brownsville experience.
FIRE 🔥 FIRE 🔥
Yeah, he’s got some issues. 🤷♂️
Was Dr. Brown part of that "send fire, fire fire" debacle? I saw clips of it and some women yelling, fire, constantly. W/ some poor young man just rolling in total agony, while she kept proclaiming fire on him and it looked and sounded demonic. Someone heard it from the other room and thought it was a possession he was hearing. I didn't think Dr. Brown was part of that awful movement and didn't see him there. His doctrine is usually very sound, though he does associate w/ some hyper charismatics into questionable practices, because he sees how they have lots of good to their ministry as well.
Bravo!!! Dr. Brown 👏👏👏👏👏
Brown came short to recognize that a 500 is included in the Apostolic in 1 Cor. 15 referring to the those who were in the Christ event.
There is a subtle difference that a lot of brethren miss that is the distinction between gifts of healing and God healing, I think most Christians believe the latter, but Dr brown is using the gifts passages in Corinthians to advocate for his case, ironically arguing with his glasses on.
Much of Corinthians is corrective for abuses those Christians were getting into. Did they misuse gifts? Can you misuse gifts? Can a person with the gift of mercy misuse it? Can you misuse the gift of healing and the gift of miracles? I think we can misuse the gift of giving and such, but not healing and miracles because those no longer are given. Can you imagine being disciplined for healing when you shouldn't etc.?
Of course healings are still today if God's will, but regarding the gifts of spirit is no more that's what the early church history tells us, it has ceased. Throughout the church we don't see that gifts of practices.
We see them daily ...the lord doesn't change
What i have learned and believed also have lived it to myself, for those who truly believed and confessed that God raised His son from the dead, those dont need to ask for healing because of what has happenned at calvary in connection to Isaiah 53:4, but those who have not believed nor accepted Him as savior and confessed, those do need to ask for healing. If you accepted Him and trusted calvary, HE HEALED YOU, while those who has not accepted and confessed Him as Lord and savior, those have to ask for healing, because He IS THE HEALER... I have lived these principles to myself and my family. Cancer, hepatitis B, Tumors have disappeared from my family and my body... I think it;s just a matter of having our own experiences.... Elienai LIttig.
Is scripture is absolute truth one cannot use experience to explain it...
PRAISE JESUS ...JESUS SAID IN MATTH 17 WHEN THE APOSTLES COULD NOT HEAL AND SAID THE REASON WAS THESE THINGS ARE NOT REMOVED BUT BY PRAYER AND FASTING AND JESUS MEANS ALOT OF FASTING AS WE KNOW HOW MUCH JESUS FASTED ..EVEN JESUS HAD TO REBUKE THE APOSTLES FOR FALLING ASLEEP IN PRAYER ..HOW COME WE NEVER HEAR THESE SCRIPTURES IN THESE HEALING DEBATE ..I THINK ITS BECAUSE IT REVEALS WE ARE TO BLAME AND NOT GODS MERCY ITS OUR LAZINESS AND GREED WHICH PREVENTS US FROM THE PATH OF FASTING REQUIRED FOR SUCH PRECIOUS MIRACLES WE THIRST FOR BUT WILL NOT HUNGER FOR ...WE ARE NOT HEARING TRUTH AS WE SHOULD..BROTHER ELIJAH
Faith without doubt. Jesus taught on this. They must go together. Life experience gets in the way and doubt( Satan) creeps in.
@O'Brien O'Statham as Pretersist myself, I have never taken Matthew 24:50-51 as the second judgement 2nd coming, it says: the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 24:50, 51 ESV)
These verses I believe is speaking of physical death.
There is no distinction in all Matthew 24 to claim that Christ is speaking of 2 different events. If you see in Matthew 25 verse 13 Christ tells his immediate audience to watch: Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour. (Matthew 25:13 ESV) remember the numbers ( chapters and verses) where later added to help us find scripture. The original reader did not have chapter numbers. I'm sure your aware of that. In Matthew 25:31 is where I as a Preterist would say that the separation of 2 different events takes place, you can see here a different description of Christ coming, he is not coming down on a Cloud (sign of Judgment) but with Angels. It reads: “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. (Matthew 25:31 ESV) so there is yours and mine differences in interpreting those verses. You ask if we are in the Last Days, I would say I do not know. Christ can come 20,000 years from now. I don't see anywhere in scripture that we are living in the last days ( end of eschaton) now. The bible does not give any signs. We are living in the Millennium right now, I don't take the word Millennium to be taken literal, as I hope you would to if you claim to be a Preterist.
Paul's thorn in the flesh .. A demon to buffet him. God keeps people humble in many ways. Those who are given gifts, always has to be for the glory to the Lord. Some get lifted up in pride. But we are just ordinary people, flesh. We must never forget that.
2 Corinthians 13:5 “Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-unless indeed you fail to meet the test!”
I don't see what the debate is. Haven't these guys seen Benny Hinn?
Benny Hinn is full of shit.
thinkagainst 😂😂
kevin Mcdonald OMG BEST COMMENT EVER!
I would have to unequivocally support the continuationist position based on my personal completely supernatural experience, all of which is biblically based and has nothing to do with knocking people down and epilepsy or other imported pagan traditions. I would he happy to prove it to any honest christian who would message me.
bakothegreat do you not see the contradiction of saying it's completely based on your personal experience and then saying it's about what the bible teaches?
@@SamOwenI no contradiction. He clearly states that his experience is biblical. It's those who aren't healed and then interpret scripture through that lense that I find are in error.
Why is this a debate.
Aaron Wright because there’s a massive discrepancy between the healings we see in scripture and the absence of them today. Paraplegics aren’t getting up and walking, dead aren’t rising, but we see a lot of phantom pain disappearing...
There was a question as to "why is this a 'debate' ?".
I would reply with the question, Does the Bible have an example of Christians debating/contending with one another?
Acts 15:2
"And after Paul and Barnabas had a heated argument and debate with them, the brothers determined that Paul and Barnabas and some others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue."
I John 4:1
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but TEST the spirits to see whether THEY are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world".
Acts 17:11
"The Berean Jews were more honorable than those in Thessalonica. This was evident in the great eagerness with which they accepted the word and EXAMINED THE SCRIPTURES each day to SEE whether Paul and Silas’ teaching was true".
It is not uncommon for Scriptural interpretation to lead to debate.
It can reveal deeper truths within an understanding of a passage(s). It should ALSO convict the listener to:
I Tim 2:15
Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that need not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING the word of truth.”
I believe healings are for today as much as in Jesus' day. Iv been healed and know of others healed also. Jesus said I am the same yesterday today and forever. Why would He do for them back then and not us today. That being said do all people get healed? No. I lean on what God said to Paul my grace is sufficient for you for my strength is made perfect in weakness. How many people found themselves more on their knees for the Lord in their weaknesses then when in strong or healthy times. God works best when we are weak whatever that may look like. I believe everyone has their own form of the thorn in the flesh to keep us all humble.
Amen. Can you share what your healing was? God Bless...🙏
@@michellecheriekjv4115 I had constant sciatic pain due to scoliosis. I lived with it for a few years before I got healed. I was actually praying for a healing for my moms cancer over the phone cause she lives 1100 miles away and I didn't even know I was healed till I woke up the next day. I was so focused on her I didn't realize I got healed. And she was also healed of cancer. Have lots of healing stories from other family members. God is good all the time. Healed or not I praise Jesus.
I struggle with cancer and had no help from doctors. Can you tell me what her medical treatment was? Thank you
@@davidmathews9633 she had radiation treatment.
Exactly...u have to believed everything the 📖 says, not was convinced for u...Dr. White
Its simple. It really is. God always will have his WORD to inform you who is a liar! This scripture alone settles all this lies of no healing and gifts.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.
Paul says all but love will pass away WHEN JESUS COMES BACK AND WE HAVE THE PERFECT WORLD. Then AND ONLY THEN do we not have a need for it.!! Paul says it will pass away when the PERFECT comes. So what he mentions are gifts of the Holy Spirit!! If he mentions these, please try to lie and say now that those are the only gifts that continue..... All gifts are NEVER SEPARATED in scripture to say some stay and some leave! This scripture CLEARLY outlines Paul advising us THE GIFTS ARE HERE UNTIL THE PERFECT!
CASE CLOSED. God bless you all. God has been working through his righteous since he has been using the prophets of old time.....he wont stop now!!! Yes he can do it on his own...he dont need us to heal anything! But as it is written .....he do these things as to edify and show as signs!! Amen!!
I mean, if you gave a wrong interpretation of that verse, then you are the liar, right?
@O'Brien Statham In the Law it is written, “By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” (1 Corinthians 14:21 ESV)
Which book Is Saint Paul quoting from? It is The Prophet Isaiah. And the Prophet Isaiah points to the purpose of the gift, it's a warning to the unbelieving Jewish nation that rejected Christ of coming Judgment.
to whom he has said, “This is rest; give rest to the weary; and this is repose”; yet they would not hear. And the word of the Lord will be to them precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little, that they may go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Therefore hear the word of the Lord, you scoffers, who rule this people in Jerusalem! Because you have said, “We have made a covenant with death, and with Sheol we have an agreement, when the overwhelming whip passes through it will not come to us, for we have made lies our refuge, and in falsehood we have taken shelter”; therefore thus says the Lord God, “Behold, I am the one who has laid as a foundation in Zion, a stone, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, of a sure foundation: ‘Whoever believes will not be in haste.’ (Isaiah 28:12-16 ESV) again if one looks at how Saint Paul had interpreted the holy Scripture, he shows in his understanding that the gift of Tongues had the purpose to warn to his Jewish Generation of coming Judgment is upon them. Read all Isaiah 28, it is about judgment. It is what Christ spoke about in Matthew 24 " the end of Age", Saint Peter also understood it the same way by quoting Joel.
1 Corinthians 13:8 points to the ceasing of tongues and prophecies, when the partial is fully known.
Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. (1 Corinthians 13:8-10 ESV) the primitive church did not have the whole scripture as a whole, I am not claiming that the canonizing of the scripture as when the ceasing occurred, I believe that after judgment occurred the gifts ended, so now we know in full that all Gods prophecies where fulfilled, only waiting for his second coming. That is the historical view of the Church, that all Matthew chapter 24 was already fulfilled.
What usually happens is these so called healers do not even have the fruits of the holy spirit let alone be given what they call the authority in the spirit to heal sickness.
They should be as a prerequisite to the debates to shake hands and hug at the break or end. 😁
Show us your humility brothers,
I would smile all day if I saw it.
I need some examples I’m still a simple lump of clay that has been worked, just don’t see the resemblance of a finished piece yet. But He said he would complete the work and I’m excited to see how I turn out.
I mean they were entirely cordial and friendly the whole conversation, I'm not sure how they could be a better example. Besides, I'm pretty sure James nodded towards Michael at least once and if you know White at all that's the infamous Scotsman's hug. 😂
Jesus speaking to us, John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."
It does not mean we'll do all things Jesus did, though. Are you also walking on the water or stopping storms? Are you dying for other people?
@@Luiz__Silva Please read the scripture again, but read it carefully, your comment is way off track....
This did happen during the Acts period. Even the apostle's shadows passing over the sick were healing them!
Dos caballeros respetuosos de sus posiciones, podría decir entonces con base en lo escuchado por estos dos eruditos, que la sanidad sigue desde tiempos bíblicos hasta nuestros días sin que dependa esto de la existencia o no de los apóstoles. Es una manifestación del Espíritu a través de la iglesia. Por otro lado, White tiene mucha razón para sostener que mucho de lo que se sostiene hoy sobre el ministerio de sanidad es antibíblico.
Saludos Luvin, tus aportes los disfruto mucho siempre son muy buenos.
QUE IMPRESIONANTE, VER Y ESCUCHAR ; COMO DOS SERES TAN DIFERENTES, QUE SE ENFOCAN EN SUS PROPIAS FORMAS DE SER Y PENSAR PUEDAN TENER UN DEBATE, ME GUSTO MUCHO. PERO MAS LA ULTIMA PARTE. ESTOY DE ACUERDO EN QUE HAY PREDICADORES QUE SE SIENTEN ESTRELLAS DE CINE. Y, SE ENFOCAN EN ELLOS MISMOS ( NO FUE LA FORMA EN LO PUSO ) PERO, SI LOS HAY, Y MUCHOS. TAMPOCO ESTOY DE ACUERDO EN LO DE QUE CUALQUIER PERSONA PUEDE CURAR A UN ENFERMO, GENTES QUE SE CAEN QUE TIEMBLAN, ESO NO ESTA EN LA BIBLIA. HAY MUCHO PARA HABLAR, DESDICHADAMENTE YO NO SOY UNO DE ELLOS, ""GENIOS EN SU MANERA CADA UNO.
"The dead being raised, people born blind seeing...absolutely" Excuse me? Where, when?
John 9:1 As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him."
Can you hear white's spirit? the spirit behind what he is saying out of the mouth the heart speaks and then the heart is deceiving above all things. He is saying he looks at man as higher than he ought. Why? because he puts apostles on such a high level, l he believes there is none now
Mark 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.
Mark 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.
The reason we do not see Jesus ministering today as he did in other times is our unbelief.
There are no excuses.
James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
In the above verse I don’t discern any excuses for not being healed.
James 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
See in the above that one man’s prayer avails.
There are no excuses.
Even I prayed recently and the Lord Jesus raised up a man who’d had a stroke, after he was found 13 hours later laying on his kitchen floor, a quadriplegic. Everyone knew he was going to die and the doctor told his daughter that the reason he was quadriplegic was because the stroke occurred at the base of the brain stem. He slipped into a coma at the verge of dying.
I prayed a simple prayer with his daughter and he recovered.
And I am no one notable.
And I do not have the gift of healing.
Today many in the churches have turned from the Holy Bible and are mired in unbelief.
Jesus Is The Son Of God,
Jesus marvelled at their unbelief. So, I reason that the comparison with today is apt.
Jesus Is The Son Of God,
And he could there do no mighty work.
The clause above is a great example of reading rightly when confronted with what seems a contradiction.
Jesus Christ of Nazareth is Almighty and yet the scripture says he "could do no mighty work" there.
How is it possible to say that Jesus could do no mighty work there?
I agree with you that I should have included the word "mighty" so as not to suggest there was no work Jesus could do there.
Nevertheless, I was referring to the truth that the clause above clarifies for all readers, which is, that Jesus was indeed limited in his ability to work there.
The question I considered most important is, Why and how was Jesus' ministry resisted? Some think man has no ability to withstand the LORD God but that misunderstanding is refuted by the scripture that says, The Spirit shall not always strive with man.
So, we see that man strives against the will of God. And surely the day will cone when resistance is futile. But until the Spirit ceases to strive the wrestling continues as pleases God in his hope of saving the utmost number if souls possible.
And he marvelled because of their unbelief.
That clause means that the people there resisted receiving the work of God among them by means of unbelief.
Luke 9:52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
Luke 9:53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
Luke 9:54 And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Luke 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
See above that Jesus did not force his will as men are prone to do.
Here's the thing... "unbelief" is rebellion against God. In unbelief men are lost but in faithfulness they are rich in Christ and can do the mighty works of God as according to their faith in the word of the Lord.
You can't have a debate on healing without first having one on Apostles! Otherwise, we could just heal ourselves at will, right? Duh! Today, according to the charismatics, the only ones who can heal are the ones calling themselves Apostles. However, an Apostle, by definition, is one chosen by Jesus Christ while he was still living on this planet!!! There are no Apostles today, because they are all dead! As for Prophets, there were only 23 in the Old Testament! But today there is one on every street corner! Seriously?! How evil and self righteous do you have to be to call yourself an Apostle or Prophet?
God heals, we don't. If the gift of healing is for today, where are the healed? Where are the healers? Where is the documented evidence?
Do you base your doctrine on experiences or scripture???
The bible tell us satan transforms himself into an angel of light. and his ministers .too. 2 Corinthians 11:14. so as theirs only one God and one true religion. So jehovah is not doing this. so who does it leave ??
The hearing ear and the seeing eye even God has made both of them.
Koldfront As the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one satan. Our question should be. Is he controlling our beliefs.Our religion. being part of the world. as jesus said I'm no part of the world. Politics. Religion and the kind. are all part of Satan's world. As babylon the great will be put out of operation. we have to get out of her. A Honest humble person will think about this. i know i would. will you ?
Are you a jehovahs witness
Colm are you a Jehovah witness
James White is a needed vessel for the body of Christ, but his utter arrogance is disturbing. Even Paul understood that his knowledge was limited at best.
"By his stripes we are healed"
In the context of the sacrifice, atonement, death and resurrection of Jesus, all of that relates to spiritual salvation. We, as children of God were healed from the sting of death and spiritual separation from God by Christ's sacrifice. It has nothing to do with physical healing. To say otherwise, you have to be explain why billions of faithful followers of God have been, are, and will be sick.
Further, Paul asked the Lord to heal him three times. The answer was no.
Steve Excellent reply. Thanks Steve. Much respect to the Iron Horse.
@@nojustno1216 because of sin
Wait! The thorn was a messenger from Satan.
God stills Heal!!! God is a sovereign God. What is Dr. White talking about. God is the same yesterday, tomorrow and for eternity. Dr. White! Why r u limiting God? ...God is not son of man to lied, none son of man to repented . Point-blank!
This is not a what the scripture tell us Markus 16:17-18 and 1Kor.13:10
Read the Bible and not your own opinion please, and pray for it please.
@@jeoffreyverstraete2548 instead of sending me to read the bible? Why you don't read Jude 16: to 22!
Dear India taina, Sorry to feel attacked, thank you anyway for the bible references but may I add that this is about grace doctrine and not healings. I believe God can and will heal if it is His will but we have to be careful with that. After all, we are no longer in a time of healings like the apostles and Jesus. We have received the healing spiritually according to the outcome of His Kingdom, God only heals in honor of His Kingdom. God bless.
@@jeoffreyverstraete2548
I'm sorry too. We'll brother and sister. God blessyou always 🙏 🙌 🙇