Workshop Boss Fights in Rivals of Aether
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2021
- Rivals of Aether Workshop now has full on real proper Boss Fights! Are they good? Could they be better? What about Dan's Story mode boss fight, oh wait who cares!?
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Hey, creator of the undertale bosses here. I'll definitely try implement more hitpause stuff in the current mettaton boss (and maybe future bosses if they call for hittable objects). Great video as always!
Fwiw I thought it looked fine, albeit I haven't played that boss fight before so I don't know how it really feels. But for hitting the little falling boxes, they're supposed to be flimsy one-hit objects, and Forsburn was pausing slightly which I think is enough of an acknowledgment. Like when you punch through a paper bag you don't expect a real "whammo" reaction. Still good to be aware of though, and maybe you can improve it in some way.
Why didn't I think of just using a green screen instead of using a camera the other direction...god damn I'm stupid LMAO
Weirdly enough, rivals has a pretty ok boss battle in abyss and story mode. The boss does a lot of what you say to do. It telegraphs attacks with the glowing eyes, it has an attack you need to DI out of, and has hit pause for when you hit it. It is honestly not a bad boss fight, but it suffers from the same problem of spamming the same aerial attack
This man single handlely made me get into rivals
That's cool
Same here
same
Me 2. however, i have horrible internet and no working controler, so, did not work :(
Me too lol
This video was very informative! I was the one who made the stage bosses that weren't from Undertale. I was going for more of a Smash thing with the bosses, but I think I'll take this advice since I agreed with ya for the most part.
Also if you have interest in making a boss, I have a template for it. Good luck on Dinock, and I will look forward to both the character and the boss.
Where can I find the template?
That's awesome thanks
Wait, those were made by the same person who made that probably canceled Archer Cat game? Small world I suppose.
Honey wake up, it's a new Adam Carra video at 8am!!!
I’m actually making an entire game with a few of my friends, and these gameplay videos have really helped us shape exactly how we want our experience to be. Keep it up, Adam!
Neat! What type of game?
@@TTancevat We're planning on it being a single-player platform fighter with roguelike elements, and we've been using Adam's discussions as guides for how we should go about doing it
Sounds fun. It would be interesting to see how both genres work together. Good luck
@@TTancevat Many thanks. I can't really talk too much about it, since ideas get stolen pretty frequently, online. But imagine Enter the Gungeon, mixed with Risk of Rain and Rivals of Aether
Makes total sense! You don't have to disclose anything about the game. But it sounds like a game I would play. Good luck.
Sooner than later Subspace Emissary is gonna be a thing in Rivals 😂
Oh that would be a dream
Imagine Smash Run in Rivals...
I actually can't wait for this... it would be an ungodly amount of work though. you'd have to sprite everything from scratch let alone all of the coding for every stage and enemy... maybe someday.
You joke but something similar is in the works rn
That would be awesome. Supspace Emissary is actually the reason why I say Brawl is actually a good game.
Hey I'm one of the guys who helped Harbige make some of his boss fights (most notably, Eye of Cthulhu which started this stage boss thing and Marx, where i helped with the sound placement)
currently me and him are collabing to make a brand new boss that i think you'll get a kick out of. i can't give much details on it, as it's going to be a surprise. ^u^
thanks for the advice tho, me and Harbige will keep that in mind.
3:38 This is where a well-done character boss fight shines. Having a boss designed around being comboed adds depth and ties the fight more directly to the core skillset of the game. Combine this with the more telegraphed attack patterns, maybe a few hard-coded combo routes to test DI, and you have something solid on your hands.
As for bosses without hitstun, I think a resistance to repeated attacks that builds up over time could be a simple solution. Like a defensive equivalent to staling, only more pronounced, with boss health adjusted to compensate- repeated attacks do less than average, varied attacks do more than average, so it’s framed as both a reward and as a punishment. Supplement this with different attack patterns built to counter specific degenerate strategies (spamming aerials being the most pressing), and I think it’d work.
Guys I think Adam Carra likes Doom.
It's just a gut feeling.
Hmmm idk..
Meathook starts playing
One way some character bosses really do well in making you utilize a variety of moves is that they have vulnerable phases, during which your goal is to rack up as much damage as possible before they start fighting again. This encourages you to use all your tools to combo them sort of like Home Run contest and gives a lot of merit to using low damage, low risk attacks like Elliana's missiles to try to hit them into this vulnerable phase if you think you're about to reach it.
That Tinker Knight Boss seems a bit weird. I like the plattforms they added so that every character can get up there, but why can you hit the entire tank? The whole idea of the original Boss was that you could only hit Tinker Knight and nothing else so you had to look for chances to reach out for him while not getting hit yourself. But if the tank is just one massive hitbox it ruins the concept. Like it's harder to miss an attack than hitting it.
That was too bad
A lot of these are perfect recreations of other games, so I wouldn’t blame the workshop creators.
Also another thing with stage-base boss fight is not being able to interaction with player's hit_player effect. so bunch of character just don't have their mechanic , no tether ability, homing things, get resources, etc etc.
Yeah some weird stuff would happen with maypul's teather where I would just tether off screen or something. I assumed the cpu exists somewhere and messes with it. I imagine it's doable though and I know at least one of the fights just uses the cpu under the boss sprite because one time the cpu was ori so sein would follow the boss around.
@@AdamCarra ya stage boss def have potentials. But if i make more bosses i will still make them on a character base. There are some area they definitely have more control over the stage one since they run all the nessessary script directly, and I'm just ways more familiar with handling player move, player AI...
Another thing is you can still make stage for the boss, and have the stage making the boss gain extra phase even (since you can change player script from stage script). It still allow you to fight bosses on different stages, even mixing multiple bosses up which is a thing impossible for stage bosses.
Always love seeing you in my sub box. I didn't know rivals had boss fights. Great vid!
Don't know exactly how relevant this is but I think Furi's Samurai-dude fight and MGRR's Jetstream Sam fights are incredibly good bosses as they both force the player into utilising both their aggressive and defensive options in the correct way. My point in this is that if a boss is supposed to test your defense make it have ridiculous damage or kill outright. And if the focus is on aggression the best way to meter that is have a defensive based mechanic like green for aerials or something like that.
This is such a interesting topic.
Hearing about the boss designs.
3:47 That's how I've always felt about bosses in platform fighters
Keep making rivals content please you're my favorite creator of it
Many of the things that make a boss fight feel substantial (such as health bars, large sprites, and no knockback) are also compromising the mechanics that RoA was built around, but how do you make something feel epic when you can kick it across the screen?
WOO! ANOTHER ADAM CARRA VIDEO
absolute banger as usual, adam
Damn Adam, your videos are getting super high in quality, your editing is getting reallyyyy good and green screening yourself on screen looks really nice, hell yeah!
Yeah he even has original outro music!!
Commenting for the algorithm or whatever. Also great video Adam, love your stuff!
I never tried one, but now i will. Great video Adam
Great video, and I think it'll be a great opener for when Adventure Mode comes out too!
That will hopefully be coming out soon and I bet there will be a lot of flaws in design similar to what you pointed out here. So I think these ideas will translate well for that too, finding ways to make a player still feel like you're varying up how they play the game just like the multiplayer experience, but as a single player experience
The workshop has grown-up so much,
Can't wait for a full First person shoter in the rivals engine
I think a fun way would to make people want to use more moves is either a very strong combo meter or a combo bar that makes you deal more damage when you're performing a combo, or maybe an extreme staling mechanic that makes a move weaker the more you use it
Or, you have to break all the panels around something, so you have to use both side and up and down attacks.
Have always loved your content. Would love to see you analyze other games you enjoy too
He does have videos on Doom Eternal
@@zaktak4380 yep I have seen em
Hope more boss fights comes these are very incredible like really cool man I wish there was more boss fights like these very often yo imagine a brawl boss fight in Rivals that would bring me nostalgia rn
The problem with Tinker tank is that it’s not accurate to the actual boss fight. You have to attack tinker Knight himself to deal damage
This will be very informative for the upcoming Radiance boss fight we are making, we'll be making adjustments to fit more some of this points
Oh good lord, it took me a week to get past the Pantheon of Hallownest, am I gonna have to do it again in Rivals?
@@krisalis_ pantheon of aether.
Quite exciting, hope it's good
If you think about how Sakurai made Smash Bros after Kirby, you can actually see the evolution of the Kirby mechanics into the Smash fighting style. These stage bosses are going back to their roots as a Kirby boss fight with more options
i feel like bosses should be more like enter the gungeon bosses where certain patterns force you to roll or simply just wieve between the hitboxes. there’s a lot of potential with evasion in boss fights.
One really cool character boss is the Godkarmachine O Inary and yes I spelled that wrong and I'm too lazy to correct it. I assume you've probably seen it before because it was the first boss by a while. But it's a very good, not cheap, boss fight. Though it's much more enjoyable on wider stages.
Can confirm, these are pretty cool bossfights
These are epic especially the tinker knights mech
if you make some more bosses, may I suggest something like a Shadow of the Colossus-type boss stage? like, there's small sub-areas where you have to fight, like, 1 or 2 opponents, and then you get to take down one of the big boss's weakpoints?
Easy fix to this, create dmc style meter and higher the style ranking more dmg you do. This promotes attack variety, forces you to get hit less in order to keep up style and getting hit means more than your life draining away
i remember fighting first tinker knight, then maybe (don't remember too well) eye of cuthulhu as godkarmachine, the idea was fighting tinker tank, a huge as robot as a huge as robot & that was basicly battle of the huge as robot, its like idk, i just found it funny to fight a boss as a boss
marx soul isn’t a great example for the video because it’s a “hard mode” for an already difficult battle. going into the fight you’re expected to know the fight well long before it begins
I don't think you give the character bosses enough credit. I know it looks pretty spammy, but in theory, all the things you mentionned here can be reproduced for a character bossfight, and you can even fix the two main problems more easily, like the need to do actual DI instead of just Survival DI, or the fact that the hitboxes are small enough to make you want to do more things than just spam certain attacks because it's efficient. I'd say Boss!Zetta and Lvl1 Hikaru have the framework for this. Hell, those things could also be applied to stage bossfights too(smaller bosses that move around a lot more, and sometimes can combo you)!
I like stage bosses but i prefer character bosses because you can fight them on almost every stage & the stage you fight on might change how you fight the boss even more, for example in air armada the spring can make doodging big attacks easyer while in that base game shovel night stage (forgot the name) you need to take care of the fish making the fight harder
The fact that you have less than a 100k subs disturbs me
The description, though.
What about Dan's story mode boss fight? Oh wait, who cares!?
3:45 go figure, all of the bosses you mentioned that have this problem were made by the same dev: Harbige12. He's responsible for most of the workshop bosses, and they all have the same problems because of that.
I feel like slap citys bosses address some of the critiques you brought up
They often encourage movement and using different moves by having a constantly moving weakpoint and reward agressive play by having health appear after completing a phase
Highly encourage trying out slaps story mode in general i think its the best story mode a platform fighter has had like ever
The watch mojo sound effect triggered me
What a handsome boss
Fun fact, if you fight the dracula fight with the Belmont character (yes that's his name) there's a special intro for him
Thought you were gonna talk about the bosses and which ones were cool ... i mean i gues this was cool too
I'll do my best in creating a new boss
Cool
I need a d4n the man boss in this game asap
Which software do you use to edit? :)
Adobe Premiere Pro
HES BACK
When will he come back? 😭
Waiting for the video of cosmic ronald vs all bosses now.
You just want to make every game Doom.
Good.
Remember how you said it was too easy? That is BECAUSE attacks have wind ups.
You'll blow through their HP bar or they'll have way too much HP to compensate for this.
A big part of fighting games is predictions and knowing when to extend/pull back.
In the Marx clip you showed... they were teleporting randomly... chasing them down to get a hit is reckless.
You're suppose to react to an attack, get a hit or two, then get ready to react... throw in a wind up and you not only make the fights significantly easier... but also exploitable with any ranged attacks. You'll never be punished for it. By having attacks with no windup it causes the player to not chase the boss as they randomly teleport... and not throw projectiles for free damage.
Wind Up is more important for things like powerful attacks.
To reference Smash, Taboo's ultimate attack where it kills you outright if it hits most of the time.
Boss are powerful but lack the movement options you have... which means they need attacks to be MUCH stronger and harder to dodge if you're not ready to dodge. While attacks that windup need to kill you outright because you shouldn't have been hit period. You saw it coming for 5 seconds.
Can someone help me? I don’t know how to enter the boss stage by myself without using training mode
Can we get a Rivals Of Aether Watch mojo video?
To be fair, there was no hitpause in undertale
God I miss this game
You can still play it
On what console do u play
Not every single attack needs a clear windup. If a boss has an unreactable attack, that means you always have to be aware of its attack range.
RETURN OF THE GOD
Whenever I try to get good at this game I can't so I quit.
I think character bosses have the potential to be just as good as the stage bosses. They just need to have more predictable patterns and tells.
Wow, the beginning of the video is correct. He really doesn't care about CZcams. Like, "my last sign of life on this CZcams channel was 2 months ago" doesn't care about CZcams.
His friend was outed as a white supremacist. His entire online presence has been inactive since then.
The problem of being able to do the same attack over and over... is because it isn't a character boss fight. It doesn't get knocked around like a person. The only way around this is to force arbitrary rules or make it so most of your damage comes from knocking them off stage causing them to lose a chunk of HP.
...this spirals into 50 other problems. Ori's ability to dunk a boss into the blast zone for example. I'll use this EVERY TIME.
You could make moves stale... but it becomes arbitrary and punishes characters who might be a ground only fighter and as such all their airs are the exact same even more. You have to factor in bosses have to allow every workshop character to function to be fair/fun.
The problems you had were often due because of limitations or such of the game itself. It sure was easy... lets have more windups to make it easier to destroy their health bar. More hitstop even when you hit meaningless projectiles while dodging 50 of them... and of course the above.
It is like the problem of the Blue Shell in Mario Kart, it exists entirely to keep the person in first from getting too far ahead... but since people in 4th place or greater get it then it is worthless for them. It serves a purpose but adding a Blue Shell to these fights in RoA wouldn't fix the problem.
To keep the race fair for the other 10 players 2 must lose... and ironically the lightning exists which does that slowing the person in 1st more then the person in 2nd but still helping the person who was in 12th or even 4th catch up. The person in 1st at least benefits by knowing the person in 2nd was hurt as well.
Your choice is to flat out lose for a portion of the community or have the problems you do now but benefit everyone to a degree.
Dinock!
Someone should make a Bass.EXE boss fight i think that would be cool.
Captions?
0:56 them finger tho?
1:56 I just got flashbacks to when my parents split up when I was 13, what the fuck
why are all of these comments from 2 months ago and nearly no one is talking about where he went. please come back to the platform, we'll be waiting her for you
There better be a Porky boss
:)
If your name is Brent please tell me
Adam you should fight a level 1 Hikaru cpu
I already have and I briefly talk about it at the end of my Ronald video
Oof, I forgot about that
Hit pause... but you didn't hit the enemy in the Mettaton fight. You hit the projectile. Hit pause there would leave you vulnerable to other attacks... imagine if each time you shot the enemy in a bullet hell or a thing in the Mettaton fight in Undertale it just stopped? Hit pause is useful... but you have to use it well, otherwise it lags down the fight and slows it down and in turn hurts the player.
You need to be hitting the boss, not their bullets, not Dracula's legs.
It is funny to chastise a fight for not thinking about this... when you had not thought about the fight.
Remember things are more complex then a simple 2D yes/no system. There is a time and a place.