Ten Great Writers Seminar with Melvyn Bragg, Anthony Burgess, Malcolm Bradbury and others (1987)
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- čas přidán 24. 11. 2018
- In this lively round-table discussion, moderator Melvyn Bragg; the late writer and critic Anthony Burgess; Professor George Steiner, author of Language and Silence; literary critic Hermione Lee; and writer and series consultant Professor Malcolm Bradbury debate what constitutes modernist writing.
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This is part of the Ten Great Writers of the Modern World series:
Ten Great Writers Seminar: • Ten Great Writers Semi...
Franz Kafka: • Franz Kafka's "The Tri...
Fyodor Dostoevksy: • Video
Henrik Ibsen: • Henrik Ibsen: The Mast...
James Joyce: • James Joyce's "Ulysses...
Luigi Pirandello: • Luigi Pirandello: In S...
T.S. Eliot: • T.S. Eliot's "The Wast...
Joseph Conrad: • Joseph Conrad's "The S...
Virginia Woolf: • Virginia Woolf and Mrs...
Thomas Mann: • Thomas Mann's "The Mag...
New literary themes generated by the era’s political and social upheavals are also discussed, including time, the unconscious mind, alienation, the changing role of women, and the consequences of two world wars. In addition, the panel suggests that the atrocities of the post-modern world led writers to reject modernist narrative techniques and seek a new syntax and vocabulary.
See the description for the other parts in this series.
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Thanks so much for the upload. 👍
Thanks for the upload! Only downside, I thought I was well-read, but after watching this, I feel semi-literate..
Well Done uploading all the Modern World - Ten Great Writers videos. I have been looking for these on CZcams for at least 10 years after watching them when they were first aired on TV 32 years ago. BRAVO!
Watched this on Canadian TV years ago and realize I have had many of Burgess's ripostes to Steiner rattling around my head all this time. Thank you for posting.
Thanks for uploading. I saw this series when it was first broadcast. What a lineup for the discussion. I couldn't imagine such a programme on TV now. CZcams is a better option for encountering intelligent discussion. For example Iain McGilchrist..
George Steiner and Hermione Lee lodge a little longer in your mind because of their ease and lucidity of presentation. I have more books in my library by the other two, but they speak from the shelf like established critics rather than interested conversationalists. Melvyn takes the cake, if not the whole bakery, for a very deft anchoring.
What did Hermione Lee say of note?
@@smartgenes1 I'll bet Bradbury's Creative Writing course was the most overblown waist of time. Did he understand the mecanics of writing, he just blurts out cultural platitudes. Ask him why great novels are great novels and how they were created.
incidentally Kafka and Lawrence were indifferent to the Great War.
First aired: March 20, 1988 (on Channel 4).
Christ, you wouldn't get anything this cerebral on British TV today!
They are all white and share a culture. That wouldn't be allowed now. Now it would be, 'Here's a list of reasons why your culture is evil and you should all be ashamed. And you must listen to me, an ousider, telling you. Don't interrupt.'
Brilliant series. Thanks very much for sharing it with us. Love your channel.
Inspiring! I'm going to study this rich discussion; so much to learn and hopefully, it'll result in better insight concerning "Modernism" from my point of view. The host, Melvyn Bragg does here a marvellous work. It's not an easy task to "organise" such a discussion as comprehensively as he does. Melvyn Bragg has the sensitivity and the knowledge and he knows how to balance these great participants so that they all can say what they want to say while he keeps it all in a firm hand.
Absolutely. A wonderful slice of "modern" history here. I felt at times, though, it was the kind of intellectual sparring match that would have inspired a good Monty Python sketch.
" A book is eternally modern when censorship hunts it down."
[Some inaudible parts & minor English subtitle errors]
7:50: of an ordinary day in Dublin
14:14: 1914 - 18 war
14:18: cataclysm (not “catechism”)
14:44: surrealism
17:04: Ibsenian
18:29: (Lytton) Strachey
19:45: Jules Laforgue
20:03: Well, to some extent it did
20:38: 1912
21:03: blanks
23:34: but he was right
23:48: influences
24:39: Hermann Broch
25:48: Paul Valéry
27:17: us, in our
27:54: Les enfants terribles
29:47: mariti
29:55: movement (not movie)
31:03: roman-fleuve
34:53: Anthony
35:20: however surrealist (not “I was a realist”)
35:30: (John) Dos Passos pastes
36:09: (Anna) Akhmatova
36:40: bringing up (not “beating up”)
37:32: blasphemy
41:06: (Anton) Webern (not “Weber”)
41:24: a Borges parable (not “borgois”)
42:39: widely read
44:57 and after
49:50: À la recherche (du temps perdu)
Thank you so much! I'll fix these soon.
@@ManufacturingIntellect Thank you for uploading this exceptional debate.
@@04opocin Thank you. I've made the corrections. You have an exceptional knowledge of the Modern period. I'm very impressed.
@@ManufacturingIntellect You are more than welcome, I'm glad I was able to help.
One of the profoundest modern woman writers is Doris Lessing, whose first novel, The Grass Is Singing, shattered South African society. It was published in 1950 when the author was 31 and she never stopped breaking forms until she died a few years ago.
Kara I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days, and I hope God bless you to have a great day today, i'm Steven from from Overbrook and where are you from ?
South African society is definitely shattered, alright...
17:20 Bradbury is explaining his interpretation of modernism,
and using Dostoyevsky as an example, he then adds a progressive thread from Ibsen - the liberation of women.
Seamlessly Melvyn jumps in with "Men will lose guilt" and everyone has a good laugh.
This is all very enjoyable.
So interesting to hear intelligent people speaking out a page of two of a well-written essay....speaking!
Welcome to this program.
Excellent upload, many thanks, and broadcast quality, too!
Just one addition to the long list of subtitle corrections below: at 7:00, Burgess is quoting a fictional Joycean pun from Burgess's own work: "My craft is ebbing, I am YUNG and easily FREUDENED".
Thanks for that, good takedown
Krafft-Ebbing - Burgess punning.
Jung
He was being modest, crediting it to Joyce.
Great channel, Manufacturing Intellect
Maybe,,but the 2 words are meaningless, And why use a gerund
Thank you to the producers for packaging this high octane intellectualism so I may hear it. Barely understood a word - I might as well go back and read the Hardy Boys!
The fallacy of George Steiner's theory is revealed in the following detail. These five eminent names are sitting in 1987 and making their pronouncements. In 1989, the Berlin Wall falls. Nobody in this quintet has anticipated the event, an event which, if you were to follow Steiner's thesis, should have given Orwell the top billing among the writers of the last century. My point is you don't judge writers' pedigree on the basis of their ability to be prophets. You judge it on the basis of how well they have been able to make people and things come alive on the page. Predicting history is ultimately a mug's game -- and Kafka himself didn't write his stories with an intention of "predicting the oncoming fascism" or something in that range. Kafka used to laugh loudly in his room while writing those tales of people being unknowingly cruel to one another.
The Trial doesn’t take place in some concrete and piss hellhole either. The backdrop was Edwardian - cubby holes and bustles.
Excellent!
We have nothing comparable today.........sad to say.
Thanks..A New Year great present
Burgess seems to say at 20:26 that this seminar was in 1988.
This entire panel discussion is of a bygone era, isn't it? What a splendid showcase of British erudition... and name-dropping. Today, the panel would be entirely different. There would be mandatory racial-gender diversity through the "post-Modernist" victim-victor narrative agenda now gone global. It is interesting how American writers are only half-begrudgingly included near the end, and Hemingway's name is not even dropped until 48:45. As Burgess says so succinctly, "Hemingway was the one who put into readable practice what Gertrude Stein promulgated experimentally." While watching this, I also wondered how many of these utterances were made off-the-cuff, and how many rehearsed for TV, and why the concept of "stream-of-consciousness" was at no point brought up. Was that for lack of time, or was "stream-of-consciousness" less of a Modernist element than I had been led to believe?
Never realised Bradbury looked so like Harold Steptoe.
Impressive opening from Malcolm Bradbury displaying high intellect indeed.
his novels are crap
The History Man? Crap? Really? I think not.
Oh shut up!
Whenever Malcolm speaks my attention gets anchored and I follow his train of thoughts smoothly.In the others my attention gets painfully zigzagged and wandered....
pretentious wankery to my ears
He's a master at anchoring, isn't he?
As a side note to this commentary on modernism referring to women modernist authors, it is interesting to draw attention to the subjects whom TS Eliot supported by writing prefaces or four words or introductions to books. I think he said he only wrote three prefaces in his whole life. I happen to know that at least two of those were for books by women, Nightwood by Djuna Barnes, and the poems of Marianne Moore. And I know that he wrote a preface/intro (?) to Bubu of Montparnasse by Charles-Louis Philippe, a book about the Parisian prostitute and her pimp. All of these are great works of art.
4:40 '...television hour'. We know that after this they all went to a tastefully expensive bistro to continue the wonderful discussuion.
Define "tastefully expensive ".
Monumental shoulder-pads those, love. Or is that just where you keep your copies of Ulysses & Finnegans Wake ? Either way, I'm sure we're all suitably intimidated.
TS Eliot became "more English than the English," V. Woolf quipped but she was right; he was an Engish modernist. So was Pound when he got into Europe and UK with Imagism; and Burgess is correct in saying that America never really became or understood Modernism--in fact was hostile to it, as I discovered (1980...) after 7 years in England and Europe.
Important!
Steiner is an absolute boss!
I've only just watched this. Amazing, isn't it?
He's a complete fake. Every sweeping statement he makes falls apart with exposure to obvious counterexamples.
@@vaclavmiller8032 Certainly his hair is fake. Even Burgess's renowned comb-over looks better. It's bittersweet seeing this now, knowing that Burgess is dead, Bradbury is dead ("A desolating day" as Andrew Motion put it on the day of Bradbury's death) and Lee - still so young and vibrant here - and Bragg now sound so frail.
what did you accomplish, vaclav miller?
@@jesuispeanut264
Not being pretentious on television.
Next.
I wonder why Steiner doesn't think highly of Woolf's work? It's very surprising to me. Also, haven't they forgotten french female writers? Yourcenar, Colette?
I think Steiner thought Woolf was overvalued by English critics because she was the ONLY English modernist writer,I agree with this,Compared with D,H, Lawrence her novels are not significant, I think the NZ Katherine Mansfield the Australian HH/Ethel Richardson the Irish Elizabeth Bowen,,,all contemporaries of Woolf,,were better writers than Woolf,As for Gertrude Stein being great,,,she tried to simplify English by leaving the words out,, she wrote babylanguage,I agree with you about Yourcenar,,not so sure about Colette, Maybe literary opinions are an argument without end,Why do you use a pseudonym I think it dishonest,Yourcenar did,,but she was Yourcenar
@@michaelboylan5308 I use a pseudonym because this is the internet, and the internet is full of malevolent creatures.
Comparing authors seems to me completely fruitless. Steiner's claim is lapidary and unargumentative, and is unworthy of a professor of his qualiber...
@@michaelboylan5308 why are you not sire about Colette?
@@michaelboylan5308 typo---sure
Here is the missing Proust episode.:
m.czcams.com/video/Oh7HI6xXSeU/video.html
it was too early to say at the time this was written but id definitely argue gravitas rainbow has a place in the top 10 novels of the 20th century
I think the subtitles say 'young' when 'Jung' might have been better.
Do you think ITV will have enough room in their enormously erudite and busy schedule these days to insert a programme like this between ‘I’m a Celebrity’ and ‘The Chase’ ? Somehow I doubt it, reflected in their stellar share price, of course🤔….
It's really buggering my head how Melvyn looks so different but has exactly the same voice he has now
You'll get over it.
I am interested in the problem of trying to communicate the utmost horror of the Holocaust. I was interested in the reason which a lady gave for not able to persist in the rehearsals of St. Mathews Passion by Bachbecause she found the last section [The Crucifixion] because she found it too terrifying. As for great children's books, I would argue that one of the great accounts of experience of a child being seized by an ethical conscience (interesstingly when seized by love of a girl] is Mark Twain's 'Huckleberry Finn' and Twain considered L.M. Montgomery's ' 'Anne of Greengables'. I am afraid this discussion an example of Intellectualism run riot, and self-conscious obsccurantism. I think it is a a chimera to seek 'Modernism' rather than the continuity of the great tradition extended to the contemporary situation and to Europe. I would mention Siegfried Lenz's 'Deutschestunde' as a great modern European Novel.
@UCmoR8XFx_mi5wYXcZ1KXmsA An interesting stream of consciousness. Would it mean something, I might reply but it is jargon. In retrospect I might have mentioned Cesare Pavese and Camus. 'I falo et la luna,' La Peste' or Primo Levi ' Their meaning is not self consciously obscure and they retrieve language from the abys of Fascism, and the ideological turgidity of Russian Nationalism masquerading as Communism.
Love Melvyn
How bizarre to hear Melvyn Bragg's voice and see him...young
NO TIME FOR SILENCE=NO TIME FOR THE NOVEL..
thanks so much for acknowledging American writers' contribution--and no, it is not particular to European writers
Lynn I pray to God to give you a lot of beautiful days, and I hope God bless you to have a great day today, i'm Steven from from Overbrook and where are you from ?
41:00...he has said it/Tolstoy saw this towards in the end of his life.
Scholarship at its best.
British television used to be the best in the world, bar none. Now, it's just like American television, how sad and pathetic. And people describe this as 'progress', well I would much rather be alive then than now.
Panjandrum. But those brits turned it into a weapon's name. Jeez!
Expert textperts searching printed word.
Bradbury is correct to call Burgess an 'interpreter' rather than a writer.
Steiner is a real fuddy duddy
George Steiner was right about everything.
Really? It seems everything he says is easily refuted by a quip from Burgess.
@@Althom1990 Burgess was a great artist, to be sure. My favorite of his books is Earthly Powers. But I guess we’ll need to examine the quip in question to move the convo forward.
@@Althom1990 I agree about the rose business.
@@Allen1029
Burgess seems to have known better.
Mann
Huysmans
Eliot
Pound
Burroughs
Houellebecq
Christie
Pinter
Beckett
Sartre
Conrad
Musil
Proust
Joyce
Nabokov
Amiss the son
Borges
HP Lovecraft
Crowley
Woman Child Ecology
The frog in the well
Only gazing at the sky at the top of the well
When you had proper intellectuals on TV. Steiner one of the craftyest the end of the history man ( he voted Conservative 1979) hysterical - the campus novel now totally dead. Really who could even discuss such a list today? Houellebecq and Dugin are the last two intellectuals in Europe throw in Zizek make up the numbers.
Houellebecq is Camus minus charm, wit or warmth.
Bragg seems very dismissive of Burgess throughout
@wgaule : Bragg was actually a great admirer of Burgess’s work and had him on as a guest on his BBC Radio 4 show Start The Week pretty much every time Burgess had a new book out.
I wondered when the feminist perspective would rear its head....Female writers are every bit as commercial or well liked as their male counterpart, or rather their literature is. When Hermione Lee did 'her bit for women speech' I was reminded of James Baldwin's comment that (paraphrase) "white supremacy's greatest victory was in getting black men to believe all his problems are down to racism and state oppression. It is in that state of oppression that activists thrive and but all too often thus wish to remain.
You have problems.
Lee was also right about the modernists’ disturbing politics which John Carey took apart in The Intellectuals and the Masses.
Steiner insufferable as always.
I find his pronouncements unparalleled in their concision, precision and compression. Whether he is correct is another argument. Tone, delivery and conviction play an important part in any discussion. As a teacher, I admire him immensely. I know that sounds like he is merely a propagandist and marketing genius but he has thought deeply like few other critics. He has a right to sound insufferable if you cannot counter with a legitimate argument. Personal attacks are not valid criticism.
Great show but really dislike this Steiner. Don’t know what he is talking about !!!
Jarring !!
Yea. Kinda sounds like a pretentious teenager
You don't know what you are saying. Truly. He is a master expositor.
Nine great male writers and one great female writer... Could do better.
I don't know if women could, actually
Yes indeed and no Asian, African, North or South American writers. Eurocentric to the last!
Hermione Lee is out of her depth. (edit: way way way out of her depth)
Just a woman