Training Without Conflict® Podcast Episode Fourteen: Michael Shikashio
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- čas přidán 5. 01. 2023
- Training Without Conflict® Podcast Episode Fourteen: Michael Shikashio
Recently, Ivan invited Michael Shikashio to the TWC podcast.
Michael and Ivan may hold at times different opinions on dog training.
However, they had a great, respectful conversation that explored these views and ideas.
Is it possible to bring the dog training communities together, rather than increase the polarization?
Both Ivan and Michael recognize that there are those on the far extremes of the dog training spectrum who are immovable in their ideologies, but they also are certain that there are the trainers in the middle who have the most to gain from such conversations.
We hope that this podcast will encourage dog trainers on both sides to continue to talk with each other.
Sharing knowledge and experience is how we advance - not by looking down on each other, and certainly not through legislations or bans.
Here are some links to videos discussed in the podcast:
• TWC Case Study || Tina...
Michael Shikashio, CDBC, is the founder of AggressiveDog.com and focuses on teaching other professionals from around the world on how to successfully work aggression cases. He is a five-term president of the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants (IAABC) and is a full member of the Association of Professional Dog Trainers (APDT).
Michael is sought after for his expert opinion by numerous media outlets, including the New York Times, New York Post, Fox News, The List TV, Baltimore Sun, WebMD, Women’s Health Magazine, Real Simple Magazine, SiriusXM Radio, The Chronicle of the Dog, and Steve Dale’s Pet World. He also hosts the popular podcast show “The Bitey End of the Dog” where he chats with the foremost experts on dog aggression.
He is a featured keynote speaker at conferences, universities, and seminars around the world, and offers a variety of educational opportunities on the topic of canine aggression, including the Aggression in Dogs Master Course and the annual Aggression in Dogs Conference.
For more information on Michael Shikashio, check out:
aggressivedog.com
Ivan Balabanov is a 2-time World Champion dog trainer, Ot Vitosha Malinois breeder, trainer of Premier Protection Dogs and founder of the revolutionary Training Without Conflict® dog training system.
For more information about Ivan Balabanov and information on how to train your dog using the Training Without Conflict® system, check out:
trainingwithoutconflict.com
malinois.com
premierprotectiondogs.com
Please like, comment, and share with your dog friends!
What resonated with me the most is "I can pick up stuff from you and you can pick up stuff from me". We need to open up the conversation, in a thoughtful and respectful way, to become better trainers *and* humans. Thanks for this wonderful and well-needed episode, Ivan and Michael!
Lovely podcast.
I've recently watched and listened to some "open conversations" (that were not so open as were advertised) from the positive-only side of dog training where the trainers are talking about how you shouldn't even tell a dog "no" or that you shouldn't pull a treat away from a dog that doesn't offer the desired behavior because its "aversive" and "aversives are bad". I talked about this with some people I know who are extremely good at animal behavior and body language, who summed up my thoughts and feelings about the matter in the most accurate way possible.
When you "teach" an animal in such a way, what you do is you create an animal with disabilities it wasn't born with. The excuse positive-only people use is often "keeping animals under threshhold", but completely removing any and all stress from your training just lowers their threshhold even more, and the things they are able to tolerate when faced with unpredictabilities become less and less. You are lowering the bar so low that you are setting many of these animals up to fail and you are calling it "love", but in my eyes at least, real love would be preparing a dog to better bounce back when stress does happen and build tolerance, because life is full of stress. Obviously this doesn't mean create unnecessary stress with abuse, but that almost always seems to be the take-away from the positive-only pushers.
No one method is fool-proof. Tools like e-collars or prongs might absolutely destroy one dog with stress, while another dog who is treated with "only cookies and love" may become an absolute nightmare without the use of some of those tools. That should be evaluated on a dog-by-dog basis, from people who know what they're doing, both in how to use the tools and when, and when not to use the tools at all. There is no absolute one answer that works for every dog. We cannot pretend there is, or we are failing the ones who don't benefit from it.
I have increasingly found though that many of the positive-only pushers have no desire to even acknowledge that sort of nuance. If you use any method other than theirs and theirs alone, you must be an ignorant animal abuser who lacks the ability to train any other way, but of course they will never, ever admit when positive-only does not help every single case, and sometimes even makes them worse, or leaves some dogs to be "behaviorally euthanized" when a treat can't fix their behaviors. Any evidence given to them to the contrary is either taken as a personal attack or a "baseless anecdote". Its really quite sad, because there are so many dogs that are killed over this that didn't need to be.
Thank you for taking the time to write
Very accurately said: “you create an animal with disabilities it wasn’t born with”. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
The statement that a dog cannot be both playing and fearful but can be eating and fearful was thought-provoking. Thank you for inviting Michael, Ivan.
🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
This is such a powerful interview. Labels make things so difficult. As a professional trainer I struggle with this as I probably sit in a balanced trainer label but everyone assumes this means punishment and prongs. The majority of my training is focused of games, connection, relationship and respect not correction and is also about minimising corrections or force that’s previously been taught. However I refuse to label myself positive only or force free and find myself stuck requiring an aversive method when I’ve exhausted other options or when an owner needs a result in little time or a dog faces life/death consequences. As you say being force free and finding yourself on the receiving end of a bite is a tough place to then claim no force to fix. It’s an absolute minefield and full of virtue signalling. Total respect for having this conversation. Thank you
What can I say... yet another insightful, intellectual and thought provoking podcast!
Hats off to Michael for taking advantage of the opportunity to speak with Ivan and help move our dog training communities towards some kind of unity! Truly a must watch episode for all trainers! Thank you both! 🙏
Thank you for this podcast. Michael is clearly a very insightful, intelligent dog trainer that loves dogs and I hope you have him back on the podcast.
Great Podcast. We don’t need to fight or attack each other because we don’t agree on things. Educate and learn from each other is the way to go. ❤
Well at least this guy is not utterly disingenuous and nasty which is more than I can say for Zak George and his fans. Ivan is great as always.
THANK YOU to both of you for this grown-up discussion
And I can’t recommend Shikashio enough! I’m taking one of his seminars online and it literally might have saved my life as the defensive handling techniques I learned from the classes got me out of a big dog attack!
Michael Shikashio’s podcast is really amazing! An endless flow of sheer true knowledge. So exceptional and almost healing for a German dog trainer soul used to shallow chatter only from our „dog training pro‘s“.
Thanks to both of you! ❤❤❤
Michael Shikashio has actually worked with dog aggression, much respect to him. He has a peaceful way of communicating which complimented Ivan's communication style. I went and subbed to Michael's channel halfway through. 💯
I’m so glad to have found your podcast, Ivan. My previous experiences watching this kind of debate were awful, but y’all do a great job in making an engaging conversation where each party genuinely listens to the other trying to get where they’re coming from. I’ve learned a lot from both of you.
I have great respect for Michael Shikashio open to having healthy and productive discussions with other sides.
Fantastic Episode so far!
I wish I could keep an open mind, I always used to keep an open mind on the topic of aversive tools.
Considering the political environment and proposed laws in motion surrounding these tools, I've turned to viciously spite force free ideologies and activists.
It has forced me to choose sides and identify with "balanced training" camp.
I now view this as a political war. It is no longer a discussion to me as it will impact my own life.
Those who push their propaganda will win and destroy the future for many dogs.
I undersrand
Great podcast!
Although, I wish the guest had more time to finish his thoughts or ask questions without being interrupted to switch topics.
Overall amazing discussion with many important topics covered, thanks!
Really appreciate this conversation especially as a young dog trainer.
Marketing and brand building is really important to put yourself out there and get your ideas out. Thank you for communicating the most healthy way of doing that.
This message really resonates with me, after observing this fighting online I just felt so overwhelmed and even hurt seeing some extreme cases that get a lot of attention.
Then I basically decided to put my values and ideas out there and ignore this aggressive community and stay out of those figths.
Extremely grateful for a solid base created by my mentor and trainer. She also competes at the highest level in IGP. She always encourages me to learn from everyone. Biggest value is stay open-minded and you can find amazing ideas even where you don't expect them to be. And really looking for a better way and to be better for every specific dog.
For me this is the highest standards that get tested among their peers on the field.
Your performance is pretty objective metric and framework in wich you can evolve.
It creates huge incentive just to put your head down and grinned. However, if you do something for yourself and don't share this ideas. There could be a lot of misconceptions about sport in general public. And also public is left with two radical sides without alternatives.
This was a great DIALOGUE - every dog trainer and behavior consultant should listen to it. Kudos to both Michael and Ivan to put yourselves out there and have a professional, meaningful, educated discussion about dog training, dog behavior and the tools available to us! Thank you!
Thank you so much for offering your platform for all of us to learn! Loved Michael’s knowledge and also his perspective of this division in the dog training community.
I spoke with Michael a long time ago on an odd aggressive dog issue I had and he gave me some great insight on what caused my dog to become incredibly aggressive when I wasn't there. No one else was able to help me with him
Very excited to listen to this!! Thank you, as always.
Thanks for listening
Ivan is amazing and Mike is amazing. Listened to every minute, but I feel it was a missed chance to talk in depth to a world renowned expert on aggressive and reactive dogs...about aggressive and reactive dogs.
There is already so much talk on this channel about...balanced vs r+. Yes, we have a problem with that, yes, training tools may be banned, yes, social media is dividing is all because eveyone wants the eyeballs and divisive posts attract eyeballs. But Mike has a lot to say about Dogs that I was really looking forward to hearing with Ivan. But this convo just went round and round that same subject for hours.
I enjoyed the video and it was nice to hear a civil conversation about the various training methods and tools, which seems difficult to find in recent times, but I do agree with you that it would be great to hear Michael talk about aggression and reactivity. Maybe Ivan will invite him back!
My wish list for upcoming interviews on Ivan Balabanov's podcast!
Zak George
Haz Othman
Jamie Penrith
Jean Donaldson
Larry Krohn
Robert Cabral
Nino Drowart
Simone Mueller
Joel Beckman
Will Atheron
0ne place where clickers can be very helpful is in shelter situations with dangerous dogs. As an ACO, there are times when you are tasked with a dog that is not safe or approachable (going to Court, etc). A clicker can help to establish clear communication while keeping everyone safe.
Thank you for your great podcast!
Fantastic guest. Really enjoyed 'meeting' Michael! 👍
Thank you
This is the best podcast I think I have ever seen /heard in open discussion for r+ only and balanced and the pros and cons of all the wrong meanings people take away from a simple statement without common sense being involved
A couple generations of children in certain social strata and political realms have been raised with Skinnerian pop psychology and with the self-esteem movement. You can understand why people generalize this to dogs.
facts
I really enjoy this conversation!
I also want to say I am currently taking the behavior Bible course from Jo-Rosie and the rest of the gang even though I am a balanced trainer I wanted to know everything from everyone because if there is a better way to do it then that’s the way I would like to do. This conversation is so important. And yes I am willing to be crucified if the force free community comes for me the majority of what I do is positive however I will use other methods when needed to make sure a dog is safe!
Truly appreciate this conversation so much as someone trying to figure out where they fit in between the two camps. I know I'm somewhere in the middle. Great talk!
Really great discussion, Ivan. Thank you for producing very high-quality videos and podcasts which I learn a lot from. It’s great to listen to two professionals who to some are of different “camps” having a healthy discussion about what they are both passionate about.
You’re welcome!
LOVED this podcast and am now a follower of Michael!
This is a really good start to getting trainers of different ideologies to have a conversation.
However I just felt like Michael was holding back too much in a way that he didn’t want to offend, which made some of his answers and questions to Ivan seem some what awkward. Where else Ivan, even though was careful about how he phrase his questions, was able to get them through.
Still a good podcast nonetheless! Thank you
Love listening into you guys talk. Learned a lot. Thank you Ivan!! I’m in the TWC 2023 class. Looking forward to it!!
This is REALLY good!🎉
Loved the conversation !! Revealing and eye-opening,lots of thought provoking ideas to use and implement in training and relaying to clients and others, Enjoyed this very much.
Thank you for your feedback!
Great discussion.
Great Conversation!
Such a great conversation
Just an excellent conversation that i believe many can have, but it takes the knowledge that you both have.
Great discussion
Great discussion!! It was nice to see both of you be able to go over controversial topics with respect for one another and a curiosity and openness to find commonalities while being ok with differences. Definitely feel like we would all make more connections and help more people and dogs for the greater good with this approach. Looking forward to seeing more of this and the possibilities these conversations can lead to. It took courage to step up and do this. Thank you!!
Michael is a proud supporter of e-collar ban in San Francisco. He is also a full member of APDT who twisted LIMA on its head and is now doing away with it altogether.
I’m happy to have a conversation, over a drink, but I draw the line at sharing a cigar😘
Wonderful podcast. As a listener of bitey end of the dog and TWC, it was great to hear you both talk.
I ❤ Ivan 😊
Another great podcast. Thank you! Could you please do one with Forrest Micke. He’s interesting too.
The best dog trainer knows that the best trainer adapts the training to what the dog needs.
so much wisdom in open dialogue. Honestly Ivan sounds very much like my trainer who was vilified in the bay area in the 1990s
Alon Geva. He actually left dog training about 10 or more years ago and holds Satsgangs in Israel, Mexico and the US speaking of the infinite knowledge as he calls it. From the great Indian sages. It’s so cool that I can connect those teachings to so much of what Ivan speaks to
Enjoyable podcast but definitely not enough tough questions asked to differentiate between the force free and balanced approach. It came across more as a peace process than understanding the issues. Almost like Ivan wanted to avoid any unintended conflict.
There is no need to have conflicts if they can be avoided and we talk trough
@@IvanBalabanov absolutely just a very different energy level compared to Larry’s interview. I just happened to listen to them back to back. Both enjoyed both nonetheless
First time listener visiting from Camp Force Free 😆and I just want to say thank you so much to you and Michael for opening this dialogue. Science and education should never be considered complete and shutting out half of the minds in the dog training field is not how we continue to grow. I hope more follow your lead.
One thing I would really be interested in hearing (I'm not sure if it's already being discussed in the balanced world) but where is the line between a positive interrupter & positive punishment? Or is a positive interrupter just the "acceptable" level of punishment? Many FF trainers are okay with using a verbal interrupter, and it sounds honestly like that's how you were describing using the e-collar in your OCD case. I think it would be really interesting to dive into the similarities and differences, as well as how (or if) we could effectively identify that line as it certainly would vary from dog to dog.
Thank you Comments like this make me believe that we can come together for the dogs Best to you in your dog training journey
I'm from camp balanced and I've always thought positive interrupter is just a positive spin FF trainers use for what is essentially still positive punishment (I'm not a professional though). Punishment is something likely to decrease the frequency of a behaviour, and by interrupting it, it fits with the definition of positive punishment. I think they just don't like the idea of calling it that because they have a screwed view of punishment and think that punishment is intended to hurt the dog in some way (which isn't the case). I use gentle lead pops as an 'interrupter' but it still fits the description of positive punishment so that's why I class myself as balanced. I don't use prongs or e collars (I don't know how to), but I trust the ethical trainers in the balanced community and don't believe they should be banned because they shouldn't hurt the dog when used properly, the same way the lead pops I use don't hurt my dog either despite it being aversive/ positive punishment.
It would be a very interesting video though so hopefully Ivan makes one discussing it!
@@KelseyKiernan thank you!
@@KelseyKiernan I agree there are some trainers who use the term to sugar coat what they're doing, but I think it's actually a lot more complicated than that.
I am also not a professional, but my understanding is that punishment is something is to stop the the likelihood that the behavior will happen again in the future and not everything that interrupts a behavior is going to have any affect on future behavior -- e.g. if someone taps on your shoulder to get your attention while you're listening to your headphones, they have successfully interrupted your behavior of listening, but not had any impact on whether or not you put the headphones back on.
And whether or not you continue a behavior after it being interrupted has to do with whether or not the interruption was aversive and whether or how aversive something is completely dependent on the individual (there could always be someone out there who is so afraid of being tapped on the should that they wouldn't put their headphones back on).
So anyway, I think it's a very very nuanced conversation that would be awesome to hear the professionals who are not completely stifled by fear of accidentally "promoting the other side" hash out.
@@limo4085 Valid point! I agree. Would be a very interesting topic to hear more about 🐾
You are officially the Joe Rogan for dog trainers & handlers. Amazing conversation.
Ha ha, I'm glad you enjoy the podcasts!
yeah calling someone Joe Rogan shouldn't be a compliment
Two great trainers! I love this conversation. Those who choose to polarize or ostracize in our industry should really take some time to listen to those who can share a variety of views and ideas to help dogs.
Michael supports the proposed e-collar ban in San Francisco.
But Ivan does contribute to the polarization. He calls the force free community frauds and our methods hoaxes
@john barbagallo Please share where you heard Ivan use those words "fraud" and "hoax"? Thank you.
@@johntrainsdogs Hardly. He engages in healthy discussion with ALL TYPES OF TRAINERS. Just because he won't abandon what he knows from many years of experience and research to agree with FF trainers doesn't make him polarizing. The very fact he can communicate quite affectively and fairly is the proof your comment is false. He isn't calling the whole FF community "frauds". The science backs the facts Ivan is laying out. If you look at some of the warped studies FF community has had done with complete scientific bias while refusing to even acknowledge other studies that prove aversives are effective and many times more fair to the dog in the learning process you would know that there are some hoaxes out there who are complete frauds and harming dogs and/ or clients. I just listened to a lecture today on a well known FF trainer on some of her cases studies. She literally got a VB involved in every aggression case and they medicated every single dog!!! That is crazy, not to mention a grift that is costing those clients a lot of money! I'm not against medication for a dog that absolutely needs it, but that is only about 1-3% of the aggression cases I have worked with in my 35 yr animal career!
👌👍
I am one of Michael's students, and wouldn't be watching this if Michael wasn't a guest. (Though I will go watch Simon Gadbois' interview next!) I appreciate the level of courtesy and respect, and frankness towards each other during the conversation.
Michael is a very modest man - he's an expert teacher and mentor and has brought together great thinkers and teachers in the name of learning and improving the lives of dogs and their guardians.
A final thought: I wonder how different the conversation would be if Michael (or another interviewee) wasn't a crossover trainer? Does one have to know and have experience with aversive tools to have credibility?
One more thought: Susan Friedman and Dr. Jesús Rosales-Ruiz are the 2 foremost thinkers who've expanded my thinking beyond what was possible on how we can problem-solve and think about increasing the opportunities for accessing reinforcers for learners. We are extremely fortunate to be living in this day and time in increasing our understanding of behaviour.
No not at all. I would love to talk with someone that have never used aversives
Its sad that you feel the need to vocalize that you would have never watched Ivan’s podcast if it were not for Michael. Ivan is a World Champion and is an excellent trainer and he was one of the first sport dog trainers to teach how not to be in conflict with your dog. BOTH these men are are great trainers and I have followed both. I have attended Michael’s Aggression seminar 3 years in a row. He is wonderful also.
But this is an example of how we create divisiveness and tribalism in our industry, especially in written communications. We hopefully would never walk up to a stranger our friend is speaking with and say to the stranger, “Hi, I would never choose to have a conversation with you if my friend wasn’t talking with you.”. It is unnecessary, caustic, it can only serve to shut the other person off to listening to what else you have to say, and could even be hurtful to a sensitive person. We need to be as aware of how we treat other human beings, as we are how we treat dogs, if we intend to be good dog trainers. Rarely do the dogs themselves hire us 😂. Your preconceptions of Ivan leads you to cast at least 1 assumption onto him which is unfair. Instead of assuming anything we should listen, observe, and then communicate with each other with open ended questions to clarify things we may not understand or initially agree with.
I love this conversation because both these men are respectful communicators that can share ideas and bring others into the middle ground of dog training, perhaps learn a few new things, and teach more acceptance or at least tolerance for others in the industry.
@@wolfmoongirl I'm sorry you took my comment to be negative towards Ivan or any of his followers. That wasn't my intent at all and I'm sorry to create that impression. I agree 100% with you that kindness towards people is everything.
Just to clarify the intent of my 1st comment: I wouldn't normally listen to a trainer like Ivan mainly because I'm not a sports dog trainer. (My specialisation is adolescent dogs and behaviour issues (fear, anxiety, aggression).) I also have very limited free time. But because Michael was a guest, and Ivan is from a different training philosophy to mine, I thought this would be worthwhile listening. And it was.
My second comment/question was a genuine one - would there be as much credibility attributed to a trainer only ever been force-free? Ivan answered it and I think his answer was genuine.
P.s. I'm enjoying listening to Ivan's chat with Simon Gadbois as I type this!
I see so many of these kinds of videos like dog daddy , ceasa Milan … where are all the videos of these dogs being transformed with positive reinforcement? …
I know people say , we don’t let the dog get worked up and stressed so u don’t see that side , but these videos show the dogs in that state from the start before the owner even hands them over.
Surely if a truly defensive dog like this was brought to a R+ trainer it will be reacting exactly the same at this point .. so why have I never seen what one would do ?
I have Googled it , and all you get is lectures and puppy videos of how to stop these behaviours before they start , which is great , but where is the videos of trainers taking an aggressive dog and using positive only training to handle them (of fix them,if u believe you can do that )
Please can anyone post links to me if you have any , I’m not being critical , I’m genuinely curious.
I have been listen to the bitey end of the dog , really enjoying but I want to see video examples ?
Making a good point. Me too
THe answer is the farmer should train the dog, if his tractor stopped working and needed a service would he just buy a new one or get red of the tractor (no).
It's wild that "don't hurt dogs" is "an extreme opinion that's damaging the industry."
quick fix = rapidly resolved
That’s it!🥂
earphones are same as E collars for dog but we wear them and there is electricity pass through it and we use it talking about E collars if harm or not hahahha love it ! when media control dogs you can not control yourselves ahhahaha
I recently read "Punished by Rewards" by Alfie Kohn and it was an amazing critique of behaviourism backed with tons of scientific evidence. have you read it? the book made me wonder how does the dog perceive the difference between errorless learning vs trial and error learning? in my opinion errorless learning would allow something like play to be used as a reinforcer but not as a reward whereas trial and error learning forces there to be a reward aspect (i.e. you must do this in order to get that) which may influence how the dog initially perceives the command and can have lasting effects.
Thanks for the hint to the Alfie Kohn book. Just ordered it and can’t wait for it to arrive!
@@Kaderlid13 not sure if you watched his newest podcast but he does recommend the book early on in the podcast!
!!!!!
Greats point of views. Invite real shepherd people to explain how they maintain the strong lines for avoid de predators I think when we learn about real working dogs we understand more than we can digest.
The podcast before this one was with one of the biggest names in the German showed world. If you missed it check it out
Thank you sensei
You might want to check out the episode 2 from June 2020 of Michael’s Podcast The Bitey End of the Leash. It will be so enlightening for you! (Was for me, definitely.)
Why does nobody understand the quadrants? Positive punishment is not always adverse.
Can you please expand on the comment "if people saw me on the street, they would call a trainer for me"?
I allow my dogs to be dogs Esther than well trained soldiers marching on the side walk. They pull, they sniff they do all dog things. Of course I do have control over them if I needed but the walls are for enjoyment
@@IvanBalabanov thank you sir!
Presumably this hasn't always been the case though?
As you were teaching them to walk nicely ("of course I have control if needed") the walks were more structured. Is that an accurate statement?
@@bennfitzgerald3846 sure they had to learn. My dogs learned most of the behaviors on training field and in the house. But yes for short period I did have to show them that if I ask they should walk without pulling it didn’t take long
I agree!
So many of these "Fear-Free" "Pure R+" people dont even have the slightest idea how to use a leash that is 3m or longer.
They have no idea how to really bring the dog on a low-stress walk, how to allow a dog to browse and explore its environment as part of its natural behaviour etc.
#Dalecan
negative punishment. look what happened at SeaWorld when there was no reward waiting for "work" the Orca felt deserved payment.
It's too bad Mike wasn't brave enough to ask about all the times you insulted the force free community calling us frauds and our methods hoaxes. Or ask about your claims that we would rather euthanize dogs instead of using aversives.
I am open to talking to anyone, I have invited many force-free advocates on my podcast. I would love to have that conversation. If you have someone in mind let's make it happen. It will be interesting conversation and something good may come out of it
'Promosm'
Hi Ivan, thanks fro another great podcast. Am concerned about the strength the "Force Free" movement is gaining though, especially for agression/behavior modification. Just came across this lady, czcams.com/video/WYZXjGhmAww/video.html, and would love to see her on your podcast and see the outcome.
It looks and it sounds like ChatGPT generated content but yes if you convince her to join my podcast it will be interesting conversation
@@IvanBalabanov Thank you so much for your reply, I actually did message and received a reply from the lady. I am trying to keep an open mind, but from the (admittedly) little I know of both FF and balanced, for now I am so keen to come take your course and learn from you.
@@ghazi24 Force-free is a hoax!
What makes me angry listening to the xxx. FF advocate (like this lady you linked in your post) is that ever repeating communication technique which essentially boils sown to “I’ve been as dumb as you are. Now I’m so much smarter.” Which is there to give the impression of “if you don’t take over my side of things it shows you’re still dumb”.
It’s a very effective technique, but it’s unfair, it’s rude, and it shows only that you’re not to question the actual content of the message. That’s religion, not science.
@@IvanBalabanov i finally got around to watching this video from beginning to end.
I can tell you - the conversation between you and this lady would be rather short. Like “would you really compare the physical and mental state of a normal dog (let alone a mentally strong one / working breed) who’s facing one of his INNATE!!! favorite triggers with someone reciting an ABC!?
Girl, do your biology homework and the come back.”
Generally it's not about being the boss if you ask the dog to sit before you go out, it's more let's not run out and get killed by the renovation truck 🙄
I’ve never seen a single video of this guy working with any dog not to mention aggressive ones.
Like all FF guys he is all talk no show.
Also his associates: Grisha “BAT” Stewart and Kellie “CAT” Snider. Their bullshit DOES NOT WORK.
This would be interesting to see Bart Belon interview. Two many times the concession is well I would use a ecollar as a last resort because of XY or Z. Why is your perception that it needs to be as a last resort? Why and how can it maximize training? Ivan for sure dosent agree with Larry Krohn on ecollar use. In the end neither is wrong.
I would Venture say that if you took 2 similiar as possible serious aggresion cases and let Ivan and this gent Work with the respective dogs. Come back 2 wks later and film and document progress Ivans dog would be light yrs better than this highly acclaimed gent. Skill will trump theory
Imagine if you took 5 benchmarks for Comparison sake. I.e. Go outs to a stanchion, Drop on recall, attention heeling, Sit down stand from a distance etc.
I would bet my house on the outcome. It would make the other gentleman look as if he were a amateur.
Obedience training is not aggression reduction, per se.
Not True. This person use the term differential reinforcement over and over and over. With DRI many times a example is used that if a dog is lunging at you etc. if he is asked to heal nicely beside you as it is a incompatible behavior. That this is a remedy for the problem of Lunging
Given this is a term that is used a lot in the purely positive circle and this gentleman is obviously very well respected within that community. If you took a very human aggressive dog and use that DRI example, out of the two trainers which dog do you think would be heeling nicely? As Ivan put it creating rules and boundaries and structure through play and obedience does indeed change behavior. Ivan will do it faster and achieve much better results. Only he will use play positive reinforcement negative reinforcement and at times punishment
The other gentleman will have a much smaller toolbox he will get results but they will Take much much longer and the results won't be near as dramatic.
@@kumate45 It's ABSOLUTELY true that obedience training is not aggression reduction per se. "Going to the grocery store" is not "buying groceries" per se, either. Maybe you don't understand language and logic. Put simply, they are very obviously not identical.
@@thankmelater1254 but but obedience training to train incompatible behaviors is in many times part of the purely positive aggression training. Protocol
@@kumate45 You're changing your arguments without admitting the previous was in error.
Please just get to the training! All the small talk is so time consuming!
You’re missing the point…
@@fionahenry4592 Please tell me the point then.
@@Jan-sb2ql Real mature.
@@TamraWygmans if you want to know how to train get his course or courses from TWC.
These are podcasts about dog training not how to train dogs.
chinese way