This May Look Like An SBR, But It Isn't! (Live Fire)
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
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It's not a loophole it's a keyhole
Love the satire.
*ba dum tssss
Fire🐲
🤣
I see what you did there.
Or I could legally shoulder my AR pistol with rifling and still hit steel 400 yards
I built a cheap AR15 pistol, and dropped the bulk of the budget on the best pistol brace (according to me). In short I agree with you 100%
Red Rider7 my “budget build” is a pre-assembled 10.5 PSA upper with a primary arms cyclops, streamlight protac rail mount. It does pretty well
@@redrider7730 A very nice 10.5 from PSA.
I like my 7.5 300 blackout with a pistol brace....that I can shoulder
Cant go wrong with PSA. I have a 7.5 300blk psa assembled upper on a spikes tactical snowflake lower, sig romeo5 red dot, sba3 brace, and streamlight hlx on a arisaka light mount
Accuracy has left the chat.
Me: officer it's not a sbr, it's the reformation.
Cops: ...Mr. Smith, at this time we're going to have to ask you to put your hands behind your back.
Me: but, .....it's the reformation.
My thoughts exactly. This is almost asking for a court date
It’s not a local police matter... ATF matter
Uhh... Except local police enforcement local, state, & federal law. If you had a non-registered nfa rifle, you'd still get arrested. [Speaking as a former state cop]
ThGreatFandango they google stuff bubba lol I know been through it with the locals on ar pistols 😂
Yeah, it won't be inconvenient at all, being arrested, having your "firearm" confiscated and sent to ATF/Tech for a ruling, hiring an attorney to avoid prison time... I'll stick with AR pistols.
If pistol braces weren’t a thing this might have caught on. But why trade accuracy and range for a stock over a “brace”, which doesn’t affect either of those things.
I think their terminal ballistics argument is interesting, those rounds do put a lot of damage out when they hit stuff because they immediately tumble.
Home defense? These rounds have more trouble penetrating barriers than regular rounds
@@breadman32398
Sometimes they are tumbling before they hit something...that's everyone's point, I think. Poor accuracy up to 50 yards. Very poor accuracy past 200 yards.
@@chuckclark6162 No different than a pistol caliber carbine. And everyone seems to like those.
@@breadman32398
If a shooter has poor accuracy at 50 yards with a PCC, then yes, they will have very poor accuracy at longer distances. It's all in the shooter.
Practice practice practice.
MAC had this at the range on a video awhile back. Tim was hitting steel and putting a decent grouping at 100 yards. A FMJ 5.56x45 keyholing will cause massive damage and won't over penetrate. As a PDW this thing has more merit than people are going to give it credit for. It's like a 5.56 AR15 with a 7.5" or 10.5" barrel. People say its pointless because you dont have the velocity of a 16" barrel. Yes you lose velocity and kinetic energy with the short barrels. But even with 7.5" using 62 grain bullets you get the stopping power at 100yards of what a .357 mag? If you ever have to use your gun in defense it will probably be 5ft but definitely not over 100 yards. Am I buying one? No, but o see the value. Most people think in SHTF they are going to be making 500 yard head shots with their 18" AR15. Your not. Besides if they are 500 yards away just let them pass or wait until they get closer. Just some something to think about.
Who wants a rifle that has shit for accuracy and tosses slugs about as stable as from a slingshot? No thanks. Drop an Echo trigger group in a real rifle and then you have something.
rifled bullets
I had a Henry 22WMG that was keyholing. I looked down the barrel and had two lines that ran straight down both sides of the barrel. I sent it back, got a rifled barrel and now I love the rifle.
The thing is when the bullets hit something, they become unpredictable. Changing direction drastically.
So... They built a 5.56 that CAN'T defeat lvl 2 body armor.
No thanks, I'll stick with my psa 7.5 pistol and shockwave blade.
Actually it can ......just do your own reloading with a different ore 😕 Superman is also known as the man of......and presto you have penitrition even better than what's on Walmart's shelf .....just saying , screw the infringement their pushing 😎.
@@InYeshuasHolyName
True, but why bother?
For the same money I built a 7.5" "pistol" with ALL the bells.
For $1300 I have an ar that I can fit in an 8"×8"×5" bag, why spend that much for one I have to make special ammo to get normal performance out of?
If I want a pointless bullet hose, I got a tec 9 for that. (It was $100 with 5 32rd mags...dont judge)
I appreciate what Franklin Armory has done with this gun but as alot of people have already said, I will just stick with my AR pistol and have the accuracy. But I did just purchase Franklin Armory's Binary trigger and installed it on my Colt AR rifle, haven't gotten to try it out yet but I'm really looking forward to seeing what it will do. May have to get one for my AR pistol as well if I like it in my rifle.🤙
The tumbling turns me off, sorry but I'll stick w my ar15 pistols. This thing is neat but useless part 100 yards
It'd turn my off from everything except I thought it might be a decent home defense option. Low penetration due to the tumbling and no extra paperwork involved.
@@Joe_Friday I hear ya but thats alot of pennies for just that designation
@@easbreid9879 Yeah. I thought about a Spike's 300black Compressor for a home defense gun too.
100 yards is being extremely generous. I'd say its significantly reduced in effectiveness and accuracy past 25 yards. If it was already tumbling this much at 20 feet (about 7 yards) I can't imagine where it would be a bit further out. This is a neat, but overall useless gimmick.
Yeah, hard pass. A malfunction should not be a feature. Get a pistol brace, whatever. If you need a stock and short barrel send in the scary paperwork asking for permission to make it.
Why not just have it fire round ammunition? Seems like it might fly more true.
My thoughts as well. Sounds like a multiple rounds of enlarged and very powerful adult bb gun
Oh its the keyhole gun.
That's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure that I'd have a need for it. I guess the tumbling bullets would have good stopping power at short range, but with that good stopping power, I wouldn't need to fill the air with that many bullets. I guess that would also prevent overpenetration.
The bullet begins to tumble 3-5 yards from the muzzle and is not lethal at 100 yards... You choose if you want one I don't.
Where did you get the dis-info your putting out?
@@DEATH_TO_TYRANTS Military Arms Channel. If you don't believe me go watch it.
@@DEATH_TO_TYRANTS Probably from the MAC.
With a 7. Inch barrel it's close quarters combat 25 yr or less. Not ment for 100 yr you get out your 20 in AR FOR that .
Lol you don't need a 20 inch AR to shoot at 100 yards.
Who says that rifling has to be twisted? Also, god luck convincing the local yokel it's not an SBR.
the definition of rifling includes "Spiraling".
The dictionary: the arrangement of spiral grooves on the inside of a rifle barrel.
yeah I pictured myself spending a half an hour explaining to the people at the range why I don't need a tax stamp
Seriously?
Would rather buy the cheapest MP5 clone.
I run the Franklyn Armoury BFSIII, TACCON & HYPERFIRE 24C. I can't say a bad thing about any of them. It's all good fun at the Range.
Trading rifling for a forward grip = 💩
This a basically a shotgun that shoots 223 "slugs".
Edit: they should make bullets similar to badminton shuttlecocks or skirted pellets to deal with thumbling
Franklin tried. Maybe they are still selling them? very hard to make and expensive.
We need to see some reviews of this weapon either in different calibers or with ballistics gel. Based off the way that this weapon is going to throw the projectile it would be a good idea to have a newly shaped and designed 5 5-6 or whatever caliber it is round to adjust for said use.
Might as well just use round bullets like a shotgun. It would probably be in Franklin armories best interest to make this with it's own proprietary round
@@KJTUSKJTUS slugs?
@@KJTUSKJTUS and that's what I said, maskhe their own round, alsi trying to figure out what was being shot in this video
Finally a video I needed to confirm the one I am going to buy is not a SBR. Well I need to confirm the groves first lol 😂. This helped me so much !!!!!
That's real nice have to check the price on that thanks for sharing👍
Might be a neat novelty at half the price, but for 1300, I think I'd like a rifled barrel
Yeah, I'll just deal with a form 1 for that kind of money.
@@bradleymorgan8223 You have to call someone every time you cross state lines with it lmao
@@ToyotaTechnical i could build a form 1 SBR and a 16 inch build for the money they want for one of these.
@@bradleymorgan8223 Have fun dealing with the legal baggage of an SBR lmao
Now they just need to make some fin stabilized ammo, add a gyroscopic stabilizer and you might be able to hit something further than 20 feet away
What's with the flash at the ejection port mid-magdump?
Is not a rifle or a pistol, is a loophole, 😂
It's a keyhole*
@@KablamX At least it makes them :p
It's a 'money hole' ... But hey, You say 'poTAYto' I say 'poTAHto'
What's the most lethal caliber keyholed? Can rounds be made to cartwheel or windmill downrange?
Kool idea if you use the special ammo that was developed for this system but if was already starting to keyhole at 20ft with standard ammo I will pass. I have AR pistols that have SBA3 Braces and Tailhook Mod 2 brace and they are awesome. If I want a forward grip I will just switch to my FN M4. No SBR in my state but that will change this year when I move to a free state.
Lol that was funny, the way it behaves. The fact that it's not rifled it's good enough for me to stay away from it.
It's binary trigger on the other hand seems like an amazing feature to just have fun at the range or defending position against multiple contacts if you can hit them properly.
This is a great home defense option, imo. Is accurate to at least 100 yards, and even though there is the tumbling, there's no over penetration, it's still dangerous in close proximity. Not as dangerous as rifled barrel. Which is cool
But it's not accurate to 100 yards. It's not even that accurate at 7 yards. That group is at least 4 inches at 7 yards. At 100 yards, you might accidentally hit a low-flying airplane. Or someone's house. Or a random passerby 100 feet to the left or right of whatever you're aiming at.
@@harleyadam4813 oof. My bad
The ultimate in keyholing technology.
The best part of the package is the trigger.
Why didn't you show the target after the mag dump?
Probably because it was barely hit or they all tumbled and side slapped the target
That's like not filming a money shot
Just buy the barrel if you want that tumble rumble... Or get the strike industries brace that Imo like better than the shockwave blade. Haven't owned one but looks better imo.
How does it function in binary when you go empty on the initial pull?
Are they going to be offering just the upper anytime soon?
Now would the Franklin arms reformation be legal in ny? I feel like I'd still hav to get the mag pinned in place to make it legal but jw if its possible
Yeah, the tumbling that occurs so soon turns me off. I wonder how it would do with straight polygonal instead of straight lands and grooves?!
This looks like a blast to shoot!
So, my question is can you find ammo with .223 casing and just a ball for a tip? Kind of like shooting a modern-ish musket but instead of powder and wad there's a casing. Could that help with the accuracy?
Tyler Harper nope. There is a reason rifling is in a spiral
9” barrel, no rifling? Shoots 1000moa at 100yds lol.
rifled ammo
I like the loophole and it looks cool, but it's really just an expensive bullet hose.
I hope they would make it without the binary trigger so we can purchase in NJ !
I would love to see that hit some gel,looks like it would really do some damage with a round that hits like that lol
does having a vertical grip make a rifle/pistol any better to shoot? this just seems like a huge waste of money to me over a regular ar pistol when the sb tactical sba3 brace is so good. and plus you can put a vertical grip on a pistol if the overall length from muzzle threads to buffer tube is 26" which i believe can be done with a 12-13" barrel. sure it wont have a 7.5" barrel but it will shoot a lot better
Is it bad I want to see what a bumpfire stock would do on that with a binary trigger?
My TZ-75 9mm compact is as accurate at 50 yards as this thing is at 20 feet.
Does your TZ-75 have a binary trigger?
How important is a binary trigger when you're more likely to hit the target by throwing the weapon at it than by shooting it?
Is that the key holeing gun? I think it'd be a neat home defense option due to not having to file paperwork and it probably penetrates less that a rifle.
"Hole defense"
When the wife just ain't having it...
@@DEATH_TO_TYRANTS Damn typo! 😀 I'll edit it now.
@@Joe_Friday
Lol
That’d be quite the loud and bright blast for home defense.
@@bravo0105 Yeah. Could have pros and cons to it.
Point Blank Range, Matthews NC, my favorite range
The "Tim Wakefield" of rifles.
I’m still confused on why people are so intent on paying a tax stamp and registering an sbr. It’s none of the governments business what you have. That’s why it’s a right to keep and bare arms doesn’t matter what configuration that comes in.
Because bureaucracy is a bi.tch, and the _AFT_ (in Bidens words) might shoot your dog if you break one _their_ "rules" . It's unconstitutional but nobody wants to risk going to prison over a technicality. And yes I agree that _Freemen don't ask permission_ but those that say that, sometimes don't get to keep that freedom bc of aforementioned -laws- infringements. I guess we should move to the countryside and start a homestead with my own range? If only my funds allowed such freedoms 😔
$200 is a lot more affordable than a legal defense team.
I want one!! Damb that looks cool!
My goodness.....at 20 those rounds are TUMBLING like crazy 😂😂😂 . I'm sure it gets the job done though 😎.
Now we just need to design a round that spins based on design without rifling.
Shotguns have been doing this for years. Although it's a good idea I don't really seeing this design taking off in the firearms community just to get around SBR laws when pistols exist. I think the issue with a rifled 5.56 bullet is gas will make it's way around the bullet without a wad (which would be difficult to incorporate in a rifle round) potentially causing squib loads
Some rifled rounds similar to rifled shotgun slugs would make this interesting. I think I’ll stick to an AR pistol though.
Seems like they took some extra steps to arrive at an hk pdw which while not really unobtainable by ordinary citizens, used proprietary spoon nose or asymetric ammo to achieve the same effect this does even if this wasnt intended to do it by the designers. The pdw's ammo was designed such that after a certain range the round would convert a significant portion of its forward momentum into tumbling. The purpose of this intentional tumbling was to penetrate the prevalent body armor of the day as well as creating rather nasty wound channels.
This seems like it might accidentally do that, why add lands and grooves at all? Reduces the velocity if the round has to engage them at all and totally useless if they dont.
Binary mode 'seems' neat.
I guess with training, one could become accurate with it over its effective range.
I agree, an actual round ball would have been an interesting choice, however, it would have been a cluster fuck of a design to make that ammo in my opinion in .223 or .556.
1. It would have totally negated any reason for the barrel tooling for lands and grooves, which i cant see the reason for anyway.
2. A round ball is gonna have a significantly reduced variety of weights available for it.
3. Those weights are going to be much less than a conical bullet, a design which can add or reduce mass for a given caliber by adding or reducing length. The powder charge is gonna have to be really small and precise for this to be even a practical range toy.
4. Any bullet deformation caused by crimping the casing around it will cause totally unpredictable performance. More so than with a conical bullet.
Its prettt much a range toy at this point.
I say spend money on fighting infringement of my constitutional rights. Good try Franklin Armory.
This is what I want. This is what I need.
Love this gun so much
Would be interesting to own one but might as well call this a musket shooting ball ammunition in terms of accuracy lol
Had me at Magdump
A early Christmas gift for the new winner .
Looks like a fun firearm toy.
You guys are missing the point. Tumbling bullets that shoot straight at close (home defense under 20 yards) range means a nasty wound channel in a home invader without over penetrating. Sounds like a legit home defense option. Swap out the upper with your full length upper and do whatever you want. No trouble with the law for those of us who live behind enemy lines!
Does this still apply today with new rules?
I don't know man. 20 feet? It looks like it would be inaccurate as hell any further out.
Hmm
I may not be the brightest but
How do you register a pistol 👀
They removed the part that makes a rifle worth a damn: the rifling!
It's like they took the mossberg shockwave concept and tried to adapt it for SBR's. At least the shockwave still works the way it's supposed to.
ATF will be looking to remedy that loophole PDQ.
I have an Enfield that tumbles like that... Does that mean it's worth $1300???
Don't get your hopes up, articles say that the ATF has reclassified it as an SBS and is working on new paperwork to process this specific type of "sbs" and as of right now have haulted all sales.
Looking at the target, looks like they all "Keyholed" Hmmmm
Thank you
Could someone show that company an old weapon with an oval twisted bore barrel please ? That is what is on the fastest single barrel machine rifle in the world, the .22 long rifle with the 840 round top magazine. I just can't remember the name, from the UK. An oval bore can be very accurate.
How much are thease? They are sold out already.
have a feeling you'd be in prison waiting to be proven innocent
Even an arrow, with no fletching, will shoot straight for about 20 feet! Then it goes squirrelly nuts crazy, in flight. Cool "weapon" though.
Why the hell is it even law that you can't have a barrel less that 16" with a stock with out paying the Government 200$ is absolutely crazy!
A 4473 and another 1 - 8" barrel. (😌).
So let me see if i understand, putting a grip as ilegal but putting a angle grip is not? ….is that right?
No actual rifling? COOL! I love not being accurate. Just get an AR pistol and deal with the blade
@@azntactical4884 no actual rifling
@@azntactical4884 SMH I give up
Could you change the receiver into a rifled barrel or that would be illegal?
Then it wouldn't be a firearm. It would be a sbr and need a tax stamp.
Whouls you know who sells just the barrel. And do they have these for ak
I get the "bullet hose"appeal of this firearm. Rockin and rolling is wicked good times, but , how far can you reach out and touch someone? If I had the cashy money, I might jump in just for the giggle factor .
Freaking awesome pie....I want one for my birthday next week! Well it's not next week 😔, but that's when I want one 😉 so I'm going to make it my birthday next week 💣💥I love all firearm's #gunjunkey
I don't get it. The tax stamp is only $200. Why pay so much to get around a $200 tax stamp?
As long as ur ar pistol is 26" over all length, u can do a vert foregrip if u choose... And u get to keep ur rifling lol
No that makes it a rifle. Not a pistol.
@@doitrightcmrs3373 okay so then u can still say that if ur going for an "ar pistol" build an it is or exceeds 26" you cab run a vert grip. The "ar pistol" law bs is a laughable gray area
@@noluckpureskill9985 if it's over 26" it's technically a rifle and then u can have a forward grip. If it's 26" or less and it was built as a pistol then u can't have a forward grip. Ar pistols are not a grey area. It's simply the atfs definition of pistols rifles others and firearms. We are just using thier rules. They keep banning our guns we keep complying.
@@doitrightcmrs3373 the only difference is that the original manufacturer designates a lower as a pistol or rifle lower. There are plenty of sbr and ar pistol builds that look near identical, only difference is what an inch of barrel an the fact that the receiver is designated a pistol or rifle receiver that's quite ridiculous
I saw the keyholing and knew exactly what it was..
Where in the ATF documents does it say anything about “unless your barrel doesnt have rifling”??
Because its basically a shotgun, and as long a shotgun is manufactured to be short with a butt stock it is legal. You just cannot convert a long shotgun to a short shotgun without a tax stamp. By law the gun is a smooth bore shotgun. Because by legal definition rifling twists, so if it doesn't twist, it isn't rifling. It's complicated and I know there are better explanations online but it is a loophole gun.
Spend the money on a PDW brace and get a rifled upper. It works just like an adjustable stock. Who would want to waste money on a gun that tumbles rounds at 20 feet. The only advantage of the Franklin Armory is being able to use a vertical grip, but it's pointless if the gun it's attached to is trash.
Looks like a fun gimmick gun, but, that key holing is a total no go for me. Still, it looks like fun with that Binary Trigger!
Can you put a suppressor on it with no paperwork?
No
Nor would you want to. Tumbling bullets + suppressor = problem.
I'll take 3!
What a waste of money to buy if it bullets are tumbling by that distance
@Frognutz 0o the price and that its inaccuracies in my opinion its a easy pass for me
Would these even be legal in California? God we need some good news.
No on multiple levels. The binary trigger is absolutely not legal in CA. The 30 round magazine is not currently legal. Being an "AR series" rifle with "evil features" makes it not legal. And I don't think the smooth bore would be any kind of loophole as there is specific wording in CA law that covers both rifled and smooth bore. These are not even legal in Oregon due to Oregon's definition of what constitutes a "machine gun".
Or.... I can just "incidentally shoulder" my pistol. With a lot less invested (minus binary trigger) and a helluva lot more accurate. Amirite?
Uarerite
It's not illegal anymore to shoulder the pistol.
When you need more holes to put your keys in.
The "twist rate" would be - 0:9" :-D
It IS a SBR! If NOT, it is a short-barreled SHOTGUN, which I am sure falls under the same category as a SBR, requiring extra paperwork and money.