What do you think? Are Shadow's memories on the ARK real or fake? Also, huge thank you to 1v1.LOL for making this video possible! Download 1v1.LOL, the hyper battle royale for FREE! onevone.onelink.me/B5hL/5t0x8urp
J.j. Abrams:-"Well, what are stories, but mystery boxes"? Shadow:-"what's in the box"!? Seriously, they should be real otherwise shadow should've gone down.
But that doesn't work. We saw Shadow get launched into outerspace. Then he's randomly in suspended animation on Prison Island. Shadow escaped from the ARK. How did Gerald get him back? I still think Sonic was the real Project Shadow (He just doesn't remember it); and the current Shadow was a clone made to get revenge on humanity. This would also explain why Sonic and Shadow are similar, but opposites. Shadow has a little more Black Arms genetics, though.
@SSJacksWolf 1.) Gerald got him back because they apparently let him go after the ark, and he must have done it behind the scenes to be able to alternate shadows mind. 2.) I think Gerald based shadows design off the mural in Sonic 3 hidden palace (only a theory tho).
@@SSJacksWolf that doesnt make sense because gerald based shadow off of sonic and the bio lizard off of chaos. also its been stated multiple times that sonic is pure organic matter
@@SSJacksWolfGun could have simply found Shadow's capsule and gave to Professor Gerald in order to "complete" Shadow. Also, there's a problem with your Sonic is the real project Shadow theory. No where is it implied that Sonic is the real Project Shadow or any information given in the games. The reason why Sonic and Shadow are similar is because Professor Gerald based Shadow specifically on the mural in Hidden Palace that depicts Super Sonic fighting against Dr. Eggman. Meaning that Gerald was doing research on Angel Island, which makes sense since he had possession of the Chaos Emeralds, and because the Biolizard is based off of Perfect Chaos. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure it was said that Sonic comes from a place called "Christmas Island" meaning Sega had and have no intention on making Sonic "the real Project Shadow".
I think his memories with Maria ARE real, just tampered with, and no one can convince me otherwise. As for "what more could GUN want Gerald to do", I'd wager they wanted him to either amplify Shadow's killer instincts to make him more of a weapon they could use, OR render Shadow a pacifist so he wouldn't be a threat (as they were likely still fuming after the Gizoid incident).
GUN didn't want anything, they are a government bureaucracy. They feared Gerald's power, so they shut down his research, only to reopen the research with Gerald as a prisoner, only to completely screw that up and allow Gerald enact his plan for revenge. Everyone running the project was incompetent.
That makes a lot of sense. Also I think his memories of Maria are real too. The idea of them being fake is not an appealing thought especially when my favorite depiction of Shadow is in SA2 and Sonic 2006.
Tbh, I thought the "I had finally finished Shadow" line was because he had finally finished all those tests he had Shadow doing. I thought Shadow did know and talk to Maria, but he still had to do tests after his creation. Just because Gerald finally finished him doesn't mean he couldn't had been in a state still able to converse with Maria.
This is what I'm thinking too, remember that Shadow, while a governement project given to Gerald, he (Gerald), used it as a way to find a cure for Maria's illness, as he was researching ways for imortality and such to apply it to Maria, which shadow was able to do for himself, but he wasn't able to apply it to Maria, meaning Gerald needed more testing in order to figure out that cure, and therefore Shadow was deemed "incomplete" but sadly his reasearch was put to a stop when G.U.N raided the ark, and when he found Maria to have been killed, he no longer wanted to find a cure since it would have been pointless, and instead with his anger finalized Shadow with the intent to destroy the planet. Shadow had full sentience, already and was indeed able to speak and interact with Maria, just he wasn't "complete" with the goal Gerald intended, and futhermore during his inprisonment, Gerald tapped into shadow's memories altering them slightly so it wouldn't impeade his mission of collecting the 7 Chaos Emeralds, that being said however more of his memories started to awaken as we see in events of SA2, where he starts off curious of who he is, and he then starts getting flashes of his past. Essentially Gerlad could "control" his memories, but not destroy them.
There's only one hole in this theory: Shadow's final memory about Maria telling him to make everyone happy. If his memories of Maria are in fact fake, why would Gerald have Maria say that to Shadow?
There was a real "Shadow"; and Maria said that to the real "Project: Shadow". He was lost during the escape, but Gerald was able to clone him and mess with the clone's memories. The real Project: Shadow woke up decades later with amnesia and took on the name "Sonic" due to his speed.
@@SSJacksWolf so you're saying the real project shadow was sonic? if gerald did indeed clone project shadow, he would look identical to the real project shadow. there are too many differences between shadow and sonic for shadow to be a clone of sonic.
I feel like one thing that throws a bit of a wrench in things is the fact that Shadow being unfinished and Shadow being able to walk and talk to others around the ARK aren't mutually exclusive ideas. Shadow could've used a few more touches after he let out. It's kind of like how his big brother the Biolizard was most likely out and about before its mutation and rampage. All of these things could've happened to an unfinished Shadow that was finished and had certain memories locked away in his brain due to Gerald's insanity. Those are just my thoughts on the matter.
There is a wrench by the Fan Video. Shadow on the ark with Gerald acting like Jim Carrey. It makes the situation more nuanced with shadow’s memories being 100% real and that he was complete by brainwashing after Maria died.
Well the Biolizard was mostly in containment due to how animalistic it ended up being. Once it grew to its immense size it was moved to the Central Dome (the Core) where it could be held.
I believe that shadow was at a state of development where he could actually experience life. He could walk talk and more. But wasn’t finished, due to the requirements (such as immortality), he would be put back into the capsule to be further experimented on. His memories were probably true, due to some things that Gerald couldn’t have known without shadow telling him when he hung out with Maria (don’t remember off the top of my head).
This is an excellent point. And I'm also thinking perhaps the way it's visually represented may not even be completely accurate, it may only be how Shadow remembers it. Maybe Shadow was in a development capsule or otherwise not 'fully there' the way the cutscenes show it, i.e. he was conscious but still incomplete, but he didn't have awareness in that and considered himself complete.
@@Racecar564 Thank you. It would make sense that shadow could actually function properly and still be well ya know alive. Because shadow needed the black arms dna to help. So only god knows what else Gerald needed for help. Or what he never finished
The way I interpreted Shadow’s story was the memories and emotions he had in his time with Maria are genuinely real. That he was mostly ‘incomplete’ when they were together, as if he was, then Maria wouldn’t still be suffering from her illness. This idea that he was incomplete can echo throughout their escape, being less capable than the version he is now. How I personally always saw it that Gerald simply manipulated Shadow’s core existing memories to act upon his vengeful mission when he was tasked to weaponize him for GUN. That is just me though!
@@evdestroy5304 they may be based off the games but it went is a different thing cause in sonic x japanese version a soldier said he killed maria while she was about to eject shadow
@@CypherShanilver It does hold more water than one may think. It's highly likely that Sonic X has the true version of SA2's story because Izuka, Maekawa and Hohshino who all worked on SA2's also worked on the Sonic X adaptation of it. Hoshino recently even confirmed Shadow's limiter rings were meant to be in SA2 and Maekawa confirmed that the missing story details in guides or other media are restored and retained in Sonic X's SA2 adaptation.
Shadow was only "awake" a week before the Project was shut down, so Gerald would only need to fake a week's worth of memories. But I hold Sonic was Project Shadow, and he went into a coma and had amnesia after escaping the ARK. Gerald simply put the "original" Shadow's memories into a clone.
I mean, I think the conclusion was that it doesn't matter if those are real or not, but his feelings for Maria are, and he loved her based on what he perceives as their time together, he ought to be aware she would have wanted hope for humanity instead of destruction.
I feel like the original plot of SA2 has a large amount of plot holes that lead to this theory. My assumption is that when Gerald says that he’s completed Shadow, he’s referring to altering his memory so that he can carry out his revenge plot. I also believe that he could possibly be referring to his overall revenge plot on earth, considering that Shadow plays the biggest role in it. That’s just me though. It would seem kinda lame to me if it were to be officially revealed that Shadows memories were all manufactured
Sonic Adventure 2 is pretty clear Shadow's memories are fake. There are also hints that Sonic is the "true" Ultimate Lifeform, including Shadow flatout saying that during the final boss fight. Tbh, it's very likely the original intent was Sonic was the one who escaped the Ark, thanks to Maria; and Shadow was created afterwards as a clone of Sonic on Prison Island. This plot thread was abandoned, likely because Shadow was brought back during Sonic Heroes, which almost certainly wasn't the original plan. However, this theory could still totally work if Sega wants to bring it back.
@@SSJacksWolf That was like one line at the end which was meant to tie up the rivalry that Sonic and Shadow had. It was not intended to mean Sonic was the "real Project Shadow".
@@SSJacksWolf That was a retcon I think, Because Sonic Only used It When He had interacted with the emeralds, Same with shadow In that game specifically, And as For the ultimate life form comment, Shadow really meant that about sonic, Because Something you guys apparently forgot is that every living thing Is a "Life form" So I think He was referencing How strong he was
Yeah...That entire recording completely destroys this theory. Even if Maria wasn't in the recording, Gerald wouldn't have the intention to destroy the black comet if she was already dead.
Why would Maria record a message instead of just telling Shadow herself? Gerald says in the message he found out GUN plans to shut the research down. It seems like this message was recorded before Shadow was completed, but shortly before the project was shut down. The message seems to actually confirm the theory; unless Gerald unexpectedly completed Project Shadow only for it to be immediately shut down; it's likely Project Shadow wasn't completed until after the project had been shut down.
@@SSJacksWolf Maybe they recorded this to guarantee Shadow (and maybe Maria if she was alive) would remember 50 YEARS LATER? Who knows if they directly talked to him about this, Gerald could easily remove this memory and/or Shadow simply couldn't regain memory of this. Or they just didn't want to put pressure on him at that time since he just got created, or just didn't get much time before ARK got shut down. Also, this recording feels way too casual to be for a complete stranger that was being artificially created.
Imo this theory does make a lot of sense, but besides that wasn't probably Sega's intention, when Gerald meant "I have finally finished Shadow" maybe that meant he wasn't at a 100% capacity, but still could have met Maria when he had around 70 - 90% of his full capacity
Thought the same as well. Like he maybe was as weak as Maria when both of them bonded on the ARK, but Gerald did complete its power and capacity at the same time that was developing his evil plan to destroy Earth. Though. Even if he did met Maria, everything he remember from his time with her is put into question the moment his memories were tampered with. Like, who Maria realyl was and what where her intentions in the end?
I think, Shadows memory is correct as it is. Shadow actually met Maria and everything happened as it should have. After Gerald was captured and Shadow was sent to earth, Gerald did one last change to Shadow, with changing his memory to make him a weapon. I think, Shadow was on the ARK, but was manipulated later on...
You missed the scene where black doom showed shadow a memory of the past in shadow the hedgehog where shadow and Maria were running from the gunman. I think his memories of Maria are real, but he couldn’t fight back during that attack because he wasn’t finished and was probably still unstable.
My best guess, and what I would much rather believe, is that his memories of Maria are real. It's just that Gerald manipulated them to make Shadow forget her wish to protect Earth and humanity, and instead filling him with an urge for revenge in accordance with Gerald's grief. 'Completing' Shadow was likely these manipulations, as well as general finishing touches to go along with the new plan and ensure Shadow was operating at full capacity as a weapon. Back on the Ark, he was awake, but unfinished, and not yet intended to be weaponized. Back then, he was just a person.
A hole within this theory is the fact that at the end of ShTH, with the canon ending, both gerald and maria recount maria’s wish to Shadow, and even maria had a talk one to one with shadow, recounting memories they shared with each other. So yeah, Shadow’s memories were only altered
Honestly shadow having implanted memories gives me the same vibes as KH Chain of memories in which Organization 13 specifically wanted to manipulate sora a keyblade wielder to their side through making him think namine was his childhood friend and he forgot. That's about the only similarity though honestly. Also in his game its pretty clear he is done with humanity and past ghosts once he is at the final story. Very good theory honestly and it lines up with his characterization in his game and 06 as well. I would have to guess writers left shadow's past ambiguous when it comes to his involvement with the ark and whether he knew maria and Gerald or not.
Oh man my head hurts. I remember for the longest time that Gerald altered Shadow’s memories and seen people mention it on CZcams, but when I went back to playing SA2 (and finally beat the game after so many years lol) I didn’t notice anything that suggested that. Although I always found it strange how in Gerald’s diary how he said he finished Shadow after Maria’s death which seemed pretty bizarre to me. It’s like a painter taking their piece from a gallery to finish it. Also it confuses me how he could alter the eclipse canon and the biolizard to complete his vengeance if he was on Prison Island. I don’t think GUN is dumb enough to say sure we can take you to the space colony Ark to work on a super secret project even other Thursday. However I didn’t question it much since I knew I was not going to get a solid answer and just chalked it up as he was damaged during his pod’s landing and had to have the damages tended to or Gerald lied to GUN that Shadow was not done yet to make these alterations. But who could say. Honestly I like to believe that his memories about his time with Maria are true.
Archie Comics actually explains this. The GUN soldiers overseeing Gerald's research weren't scientists, so they had no idea what Gerald was doing, and GUN just trusted Gerald was doing what he said he was. As soon as a higher up found this out, he immediately executed Gerald because he realized Gerald was up to something, but it was too late, Gerald finished his plans. It's also possible Shadow was the one who reprogrammed the Eclipse Canon in modern times when nobody was watching. Also, if Shadow really did know Maria, why would Maria record the message for Shadow at the end of Shadow's game? It certainly seems from that recording that Maria didn't know who Shadow was. I still hold Sonic is the "Ultimate Lifeform" and Shadow was a clone made later.
@@moises3640 He was in suspended animation in the escape pod. Or he was in a coma after crash landing, but survived due to being immortal. Either way, he has amnesia and doesn't know where he came from.
@@SSJacksWolf But I don’t know if you could call Archie canon especially when none of it was acknowledged by Sega. But I guess that is an explanation and I respect if you think differently. That is an interesting possibility though. It is possible that Shadow altered it himself. As far as the Maria recording I don’t remember that however I never beaten Shadow the hedgehog (it was not the game for me ever though it was about my favorite Sonic character). I will have to look that up although the game was a mess to me and was entirely unnecessary. But hey that’s just my opinion and I respect if you have a different opinion on the game. However as a hardcore SA2 fan Shadow is the only Ultimate Lifeform in my opinion. But Sonic is in a league on his own. Unless Sega plans to set this in Sonic x Shadow Generations they will most likely just leave this up to fan interpretation.
because the line about alternation of shadow's memories only exists in original japanese version of the game, the english translation somehow managed to screw it up and change this line to '' i made his mind pure'' or something like that... sa2 has quite a lot of translation errors that lead to hella ton of fan theories that aren't really needed cause its already answered in the games. gerald altered shadows memories of maria's last wish and speech from amy resembled the words maria said back then, so he remembered it. in shadow 2005 last story shadow is shown a video of gerald and maria telling him about black arms, so maria knew him. also there are several levels with maria where they interact and recall memories of having fun on the ark, maria mentions that shadow used to play running down the ark's slopes and they overall seem very familiar with each other at that point. i really should stop yapping about sonic lore and go back to writing my term law papers...
I mean, Gerald did mess with his memory after he lost Maria and made that revenge plan. I know that Shadow saw everything and remembers what Maria told him about saving humanity
It’s a neat thought but definitely falls apart with Shadow breaking through the memory modications at the end of Sa2 and how crude the modifications are with Gerald not even being able to change Maria’s wish and just having to supress it from his memory. And don’t see why Gerald would out in a memory that messes with his plan and if it was to give him a more positive view on Maria why would it he then suppress it after intentionally putting it in?
On one Hand this Theory does make sense as Gerald did manipulate Shadow’s Mind but on the Other Hand I don’t think it’s True as I don’t believe Gerald was capable of putting False Memories of his Granddaughter, plus I think the Words”I Have Finished Shadow” was more of Finishing the Final Details of Shadow’s Biology while Implanting Tons of Anger and Hatred.
Oof I'm prob late.... but shadow was on the ark, he was with Maria, he was launched from the ark by Maria. He was unfinished at the time and it was stated that Gerald was putting the finishing touches together. When GUN grabbed Gerald they recovered Shadow and made him finish the job. Gerald made the inhibitor rings and completed intelligence conditioning when on planetside and while he worked he played with Shadow's mind to get revenge for Maria
When Eggman enters Prison Island, the password to release Shadow is “Maria”, meaning there really was someone significant named Maria in the Robotnik family. I’d say it checks out
I agree with this to some extent. I believe that his memories are tampered with, but are real. I believe that he was on the ark and was able to play with Maria when he wasn't getting researched and studied, considering he was able to look around and seemed to be conscious in his tube this makes me think he'll be able to walk around and play before getting completed on prison Island
Gerald definitely tampered with Shadow's memories, but it was only Maria's last wish that was altered. When Gerald says Shadow is now complete, he's likely referring to the altered memories. Shadow was definitely friends with Maria.
Thing about this is, Sonic X sa2 arc was written by Maekawa and he put in stuff originally cut from the game. And Sonic X had a storyline where the GUN soldier recalls the events of shooting maria, and they were very different from shadow's. To start with, Shadows memories were blurry and unclear and certainly not cohesive, while the soldier's were very strong and drawn without filters, signifying that its more real than what Shadow remembers. That alone doesnt mean much, but, the soldier remembers Maria standing with her hands upon the lever and a vague silhouette of Shadow completely submerged in some liquid or something and not reactive - complete contrast to how Shadow remembers it. And Maria didnt talk to Shadow at all, she just pressed the lever and was shot. Because Maekawa wrote it like that, its certainly possible this was his original plan for the game story too, as he mentioned there were crucial scenes he had to cut for budget reasons. Todays game canon is that Shadows memories are real, its just fun to point out the original intentions.
@@KOTEBANAROT Sonic X is a pretty poor adaptation, but it is certainly not for the broad stokes of the restorations and additions, they are all really good conceptually(Like the retired soldier and Amy seeing Gamma explode). Infact, one of the unused cutscene dialogues from SA2 not only managed to become adapted, it also just became canon to the games in Shadow the Hedgehog.
Gonna say that this is a good thing to go back to after the new Prologue and SxS Gens in general. The fact that Emerl was there at the same time as Shadow twists a few things around.
It should be noted that Rouge even sees the discrepancy. She says Project Shadow was sent to earth in a capsule and was never recovered, then asks “who, or what, are you?”
Really sucks that"bourne identity"came out one whole year after, adventure 2. Because could've given them guidelines handling their amnesiac CoProtagonist properly! Anyone else with me?
@@normalgraham. Clichés are like recipes, experimentation is good, but sometimes, you're just risking an already well tested dish's good taste. Ever seen ratatoulie for example?
This could lead to a horrifying scene when Shadow dies and meets Maria in heaven, she just says “oh, grandpa finished his research” or “I’m sorry, who are you?”
YES YES YES THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO!!! I've had this theory FOREVER and have gone down SO many rabbit holes researching it!! I don't think it will ever be proven without a shadow of a doubt (pun intended), but the implications are DEFINITELY there. Another interesting bit of evidence that wasn't mentioned in this video: Sonic X episode 37 - Robotnik's Revenge (referencing the japanese because we know how 4kids loves to remove lines). In this episode, we see the moment where Maria is killed from 2 different perspectives: Shadow's flashback of the moment, and a recount of the tale from Mr. Smith, the GUN soldier who regretfully shot Maria. In Shadow's flashback, we see things play out just as they do in SA2: Maria and Shadow are running through the ARK hallway, and then Maria talks to Shadow as she pulls the lever to send him to Earth (with the part where she says her last wish conveniently obscured by the noise of gunshots and explosions). She pulls the lever while looking him in the eyes, and the capsule is ejected. However, in Mr. Smith's memory, we see the GUN soldiers arrive on the base and witness several creatures in bubbling tubes - obviously experiments, some probably failed versions. We see a lizard in a tube, much smaller than the biolizard as we see him in SA2, but alive and well. Mr Smith then spots Maria and he chases her as she runs away - notably without Shadow in tow. She enters a room with a lever and is looking up at 2 experiments in bubbling tubes, one of which is presumably Shadow, unawake and incomplete. She grabs onto the lever. Mr Smith warns her not to pull it, but she simply frowns, decision evident in her eyes, and pulls. She is immediately shot to death by Mr. Smith (who regrets this action). We are then shown the 2 capsules falling through space, going toward Earth as Mr Smith says "the specimens were lost." This lines up with Rouge in SA2 later finding that Project Shadow was sent to earth in a capsule and was never recovered, then asking, “just who, or what, are you?” I know I will get some people coming at me saying Sonic X isn't canon, but I just think this scene, and these purposely differing accounts of the same event, are very interesting when combined with Rouge's research and suspicions. It's what first introduced me to this theory and I have not stopping thinking about Shadow's memory being (possibly) completely fake since.
We know at least in Sonic X that his memories are real . In one of the episodes, the reporter Scarlett Garcia interviews the gun soldier who tracked Maria and Shadow down and shot her, and he broke down while Scarlett Garcia was interviewing him so we know at least in Sonic X continuity, Shadows memories are real
I personally think that some memories may be false, but the one at the end of SA2 where he finally remembers Maria's dying wish IS real. I want this because it's inspiring to see a character not only remember his traumatic experience, but to also do something that will heal him as a character! That's powerful stuff!
Shadow physically existed before he was completed. I think the ‘I have finally completed Shadow’ line means that he has made Shadow the cure to all illnesses and made him the true ultimate life-form. Gerald would never tell anyone though because he wanted humans to suffer, not prosper. Edit: If the fake memories were overwritten, how could Shadow be there.
You know this movie called "The Island" with Scarlett Johansson? Pretty much she's a clone with fake memories. Project Shadow and The Shadow Androids kinda reminds me of that a little.
the way i look at it is that shadow interacted with Maria before Gerald had finished him. shadow could very well have been like, conscious and alive before his completion. so i think maria's final wish to him is an actual memory, but Gerald suppressed it upon recovering Shadow.
Thats a really good theory. I think the reason shadow’s memory of Maria was engineered by Gerald Robotnik into Shadows mind was because, like you explained, Gerald wanted Shadow to carry on Maria’s memory in which Robotnik couldn’t. I also think that in Sonic X when they showed Gerald tied up and getting shot, that wasn’t GUN executing Gerald, it was likely his suicide machine he created because he could no longer live with such grief, thus, passing on the same feelings of grief and revenge towards humans to Shadow to carry on Geralds memory of Maria. And its also possible that Gerald kind of “synced” his and Shadows memory together, because through the grief and revenge, he still had a faint longing to continue Marias legacy of bringing peace/hope to humanity Best lore arc EVER.
Maybe Shadow was not completely finished in the technical sense, but he was enough to leave the capsule for periods of time and be able to spend short moments with Maria in the colony before having to lock himself inside the capsule again and then, After the attack on the ark, Gerald finally finished Shadow completely but while he was asleep in his capsule, Gerald changed his good memories for vengeful ones.
9:20 The game does specifically have scenes showing his "tampered" memory of Maria asking for revenge, and his "real" memories of Maria asking him to be a savior of humanity. That's what it's alluding to, as it's pointing to existing memories that have been altered to fit Gerald's desires. 9:50 That's literally the whole point of part of his arc. See above. I feel like like part of this theory comes down to not paying attention to or noticing some of the cutscenes, or the nuance within them. Yes, Gerald altered Shadow's memories, but he didn't plant entirely new ones. It's like the "everything is a dream" theory that gets thrown at every story, it's reductive and makes everything kind of meaningless while also engineering itself to be un-falsifiable, because everything that could contradict it is "also a false memory". Also, I think this isn't going to age well what with the animated short tied to Shadow Generations coming soon.
It's a cool theory, but personally, I always interpreted it as Shadow being an ongoing project, he was allowed to walk around the arc while still being in development. He didn't necessarily have to be complete in order to be interacting with Maria on the ARK
This is a wild theory that seems like it could actually be what they were aiming for originally in SA2, but it seems they retconned it. Who knows though? Maybe SonicXShadow Generations is more important than we might realize...
I loved your project shadow lore video so much, I watched it together with my partner and best friend together when we were hyperfixated on the entirety of the sonic game series timeline
This is actually a pretty reasonable theory. But unfortunately, it's one of those things where Sega themselves clearly didn't intend for this to happen. To them, Shadow's memories are 100% real, but corrupted by Gerald. Because of this mindset, this theory will get increasingly harder to justify over the years... But it's still cool and would make an interesting plot point
It's actually not that simple. In the prologue titled "The Truth of 50 Years Ago..." by SA2's writer Shiro Maekawa, the file Rouge finds details GUN's records of the events, which states that the ejected capsule was never recovered, and that "there is no way to know whether the Shadow sealed on Prison Island was a replica created by Gerald or the real Shadow that was ejected toward the surface and recovered..." On top of this, according to the Jan 6th Bumblekast by Ian Flynn in 2020, (timestamp 1:01:18) SEGA apparently /still/ doesn't want to discard the android/fake Shadow plotline yet, which is confusing for anyone else who goes off of ShTH's Eggman quote as gospel for this, but actually lines up with this ambiguity. It's anyone's guess whether they ever return to this or not; it could just be built-in ambiguity to ensure that the details of his in-universe lore match the uncertainty Shadow has of his past himself, or it could mean that the original Shadow crashed somewhere on earth and Gerald created an entire replica that has completely fabricated memories, or it could be a 1-to-1 clone in memories using a process like Metroid's save points, or it could mean that Shadow found his way to Gerald eventually after the fact, which ended with Gerald removing his memory of Maria's wish. It's been ambiguous since the very start, and if SEGA still wants to retain that aspect, then who knows?
I think the memories were just tampered with. Even if he was complete, he could have been allowed to live freely aboard the Ark and interact with the others. Who knows, it might have even been necessary to develop his psyche.
Nice theory. I have a slightly variation, he met Maria, but briefly, and without even being friends, both coexist on Ark for like one year (up to debate).
This makes a lot of sense and it's mind blowing to see how we could of have missed these clues from years ago honestly if anything this makes me love shadow even more he such a complicated an interesting character and this is why he soo well beloved also I love your videos the shadow video has just help clear a lot of things that the fanbase has misunderstood thank you 🙏 ❤
I'm not convinced that Shadow wasn't alive and conscious on the Ark. Not being complete doesn't mean not given any freedoms, there's a good chance Gerald was, in the process of creating Shadow on Ark, letting him out and allowing him to get to know Maria exactly to design his mind as "perfect" and "pure." So when he was completing the project on Prison Island, it's possible that he just overwritten the old version of his memories with the new one.
Shadow was not created after Maria's death. His completion is modification after the fact. His real memories with Maria were overwritten until he talked with Amy.
There are two major flaws in this theory and a minor one. The minor flaw is the now commander being alive. If Shadow had not been there the GUN soldier had no reasonable grounds to shoot her. After all, she was a small child, like "Abraham". The first major flaw is that this theory assumes completion equals creation and if you have experience in engineering and applied sciences, you know that it doesn't work that way. Shadow could still have been in his testing phase during the raid. Considering the scope of the project, not everything could've been done in a testing tube. What blows this theory to pieces is the fact that Maria DID know Shadow. As the Black Arms left, Gerald created the Eclipse cannon to destroy them. He left a recording message to Shadow where Maria Knows Shadow and encourages him. Maria wouldn't be talking to "Grandpa's creations" like she did if she did not already have a connection with Shadow to begin with. She would be out of it.
7:18 The "have/had" distinction in "I have finally completed Shadow" is a red herring because in the actual Japanese sentence there is no equivalent. ついにシャドウを完成させた just means "Finally I completed Shadow." It's just in the past tense, with no indication as to how recently Shadow was completed. I think the fan translator just put the "have" in there so it would sound more natural when spoken.
People take the fantranslation too much for granted. For example, it uses "Earth" uppercase as the planet name when that has never been the case, it has always been simply "earth" lowercase. It's a silly name that basically just means "surface", but it is the official name. Infact, when I doublechecked the fansubs at some point, I noticed that at least one instance of "Earth"(In Gerald's message to be whole world) is infact just "Sekai", which just means "World". If that ain't proof that localization, even fanlocalization, can screw up on nuance, then idk what will be.
"Sure, Shadow was awake and conscious in the GUN commander's flashback, but that doesn't mean he was actually finished." Previously... "How could Shadow be spending time (awake and conscious) with Maria if he wasn't finished!? Must be fake."
Thank you for making this video! I've been waiting for someone to make something about this. There's an interesting line in Gerald's diary in the Japanese translation that Shadow's mind is based on "the original" which I doubt was meant to imply the biolizard, though I suppose in a weird way could be true. Either there was someone who got ejected out of the space colony that Shadow now has the memories of, or the Biolizard used to be maria's pet before it grew too large to control and Gerald based Shadow's mind off of the feelings it had towards her and made them think they were his. Either way, until they make an official statement on this strange element of his character I guess we'll never know what the original vision was
I think Shadow has genuine memories, and his incomplete state was just down to a few more tests that verified Shadow was a successful end product (Feels weird to call him a product, but you know why), since it seems GUN decided to nip the project before any real answers could be given. Gerald then altered Shadow's memories post-Maria, while also doing some likely finalizations to guarantee Shadow was ready, but then his insanity got the better of him, and thus Shadow was deemed incomplete, but likely Shadow is fully complete as the Ultimate Lifeform
My understanding is that Shadow was allowed to walk freely around the ARK while still in development. After being ejected by Maria and falling to Earth, he was recovered and THEN finally completed under GUN supervision. There are GUN reports that match the events in Shadow's memories, and Black Doom also remembers the events in the same way when he shows them to Shadow (how would this be possible?). HOWEVER! Now that I think about it... When the GUN Commander tells Shadow about the past as he remembers it, he describes Maria as being like family to him. If they were that close, how come the Commander doesn't mention spending time with Shadow, or Shadow remembers the Commander at all? Shadow only remembers Maria...
The commander's flashback in the background of the narration should be the answer to this. He was downright terrified, so he likely purposefully stayed away from Shadow and by extension Maria when they spent time together. Even if Shadow saw him once or twice, it would have been so brief that Shadow not remembering seems appropriate. Not to mention that he cannot have been that present and noticable in the few days between Shadow's awakening and the raid, when he slipped through the cracks and survived.(It seems like he was gone that day anyways, otherwise he would know that GUN is responsible for the "accident" that murked the entire crew and not Shadow.)
this actually blew my mind with the way that it flips almost everything i knew about project shadow on its head, it's genuinely eye opening thinking about all of this
It was stated that an escape pod was found after the ARK was raided. If Shadow was made or "finished" after the raid, who the hell was in that escape pod? I think Shadow did meet Maria and everything, but Gerald didn't consider Shadow finished/complete until after the madness kicked in, and he started messing with Shadow's brain. That'd why it takes Shadow a while for him to remember what Maria actually said to him. The real memories were always there, but due to trauma and Gerald's manipulation, everything got warped. Also, we don't know what actually made Shadow "finished" in the first place. Sure, Shadow could walk and talk, but considering that he was supposed to be the ultimate lifeform, I think he would have gone through a bunch of tests. That's probably why he wasn't finished by the raid. Everything was cut short, so Shadow was at most maybe 30-40% complete. I doubt he was more than 50% along in his development since he was still wondering about his own existence and was very naïve. Shadow was like a toddler, which is what I'm trying to say. Fresh out of the pod, figuring his way around this new existence. When Gerald was sent to Prison Island and Shadow was recovered by G.U.N. That would have been when Gerald was forced to finish making Shadow. Shadow was supposed to be a weapon, after all. That's why the military was involved in the first place. The Sonic Channel artwork depicts how, at first, Shadow was just learning about the world and things around him. Maria taught him about the things she knew, and they were both given a basic education by Gerald. Also, did we all forget that G.U.N. raided the ARK because they found out about the Biolizard? They wanted to kill everyone on board because of that thing, but when they found out Gerald made Shadow, they spared him. That's the reason why Gerald wasn't immediately executed and sent to Prison Island. They still had a use for him. So, to conclude my rant(?) I think that Shadow's memory situation is a lot easier to explain than it seems. It's like a video timeline in an editing software. You have the full video uncut in its original format, and then you do some audio splicing and cut a few moments out of the video and present this new video like it's the original. However, the original video file is still stored on the harddrive it's just in a locked folder that you forgot the password for. Honestly, though, the theory makes much more sense if Shadow The Hedgehog (2005) didn't exist became that game retconned a lot of stuff SA2 did. I just remembered that the original narrative was that the capsule was never recovered, and that's why Rouge was so confused by Shadow. Then Sonic Team said, "Fuck it, lets throw all that out the window."
This could either be two things: one sonic team slept on their desk and forgot to make cohesive writing, or two this was a plot point to be later developed but they forgot
Shadow wasn't started after Ark was shut down, he was (as those clips you provided yourself say) _completed_ - Shadow was in incomplete during his time on the Ark, he met Maria and she tried to help him escape when it was being shut down. Gerald then goes insane from Maria's death and finishes Shadow as ordered to, but goes a step further and tries to twist Shadow's memories in the process so he would eventually wipe out humanity. Amy helped Shadow move past his brainwashing, as her earnest plea with him to make people happy reminded him of Maria, and unlocked the sealed memory. This better explains why Shadow had a memory of Maria's actual wish for humanity inside him, Gerald wouldn't put that there if he was already mad and wanting humanity to die. Why include it and then suppress it? Nah his memories were still tampered with, but by removing any that would hinder his plan for revenge rather than inserting fake ones to motivate him.
I used to have that theory, where shadow's memories r actually Gerald's. He installed his consciousness in shadow, but then shadow only remembered those vague memories
I had someone try to argue this theory to me a little while ago and at the time it seemed a bit more farfetched. The way you've explained it in this video makes it seem a lot more plausible. The way it went in the first version I heard however was that this WAS meant to be the case in SA2 but later games retconned it. As he was shown to be onboard the ARK in Shadow 05 so it seems to make sense that he definitely could have known Maria in actuality. If Gerald had not only completed Shadow but had only started working on him while on Earth it would be cut and dry but even an "incomplete" Shadow could still have lived out some of his ARK memories. I took it that Shadow's memories were tampered with by Gerald but his friendship with Maria was a real memory. It makes emotional sense to me that him remembering Maria's real wish for humanity was due to Gerald's feelings about her, but it makes more logical sense that that's just actually something he witnessed. Then again, SA2 has a lot of plot points that don't make a lot of sense logically.
His memories are obviously altered, SA2 makes no sense if they're not, but all the supplemental additions to the story after SA2 make it hard to believe they were never real to begin with.
I believe that Shadow's memories of Maria wanting Shadow to help humanity are real and that Gerald also added fake anti-human memories into Shadow's mind after he became insane because of Maria's death and no-one can ever convince me otherwise.
I believe Shadow’s memories were real and Gerald just altered them a bit to make shadow avenge him. And Shadow might’ve been able to move around and stuff on the arc but he still wasn’t fully complete by the time the G.U.N. Raid happened and such.
When Shadow falls to earth in the beginning and end of SA2, I believe he is sort of comatose and probably suffering some injuries. We just never see the damage, so we don't know his healing process or how resilient he is, but think about it this way: you make a really swell bedside table, but just before you can bring it up to your room, something happens and it gets damaged. You repair the damage and bring it up to your room. Though you could consider it complete before, it is now properly completed since it has no significant damage. As for "complete control" over Shadow's memories, I believe that is quite simply an overstatement. Gerald probably put some sort of block on Shadow's memory while he was healing to prevent him from remembering the true nature of his promise. When Shadow woke up, he likely remembered a promise vaguely, and maybe had a sense of anger, either injected or as a natural stage of grief, thus assuming he promised revenge. His only human contact being The Doctor probably fueled his anger; Shadow's not dumb, he knows Eggman is evil (especially when he threatens Amy with a gun). Then notice Rouge is holding up a picture of the BioLizard, which was probably the more publicized aspect of Project Shadow. Shadow doesn't look as much like a superweapon, and attempting to explain why he is a superweapon gets dangerously close to explaining the pact with Black Doom, which would look REALLY BAD on Gerald's part. So there probably aren't that many pictures of Shadow lying around. He was the space colony's public secret. People probably saw him around and knew he was some sort of experiment, but otherwise didn't really question the specifics. So Rouge might have assumed that he was built later. Though she seems like the type to have insider info, so maybe she was just trying to get Shadow to reconsider what he was doing, knowing full well from the commander that he existed on the Ark for a long time in secret? Also entirely possible that SA2 went in the direction of his memories being faked but then the series is like "nah Maria's pretty cool ngl, let's kill her more often" so baddabingbaddaboom RETCONS BABY!
I don’t really like this theory. I think Shadow was actually friends with Maria and everything happened but later had his memories altered by Gerald. That’s what makes most sense.
Last Story of his game proves otherwise and he's not made by Eggman thanks to Eggman's confession so. Edit:The LS reveals a recording with Gerald and Maria together which not just Shadow sees so if it was just fake memories, that wouldn't be there.
I’ve always imagined that the line of him finally completing shadow means that shadow was functional but incomplete. To add to this why would shadow not use any of his abilities when the ark was being destroyed and maria was getting shot unless maybe he didn’t have them at all as he was not finished
IMO his memories are real. Though Gerald said Shadow had been completed after Maria's death it doesn't mean Shadow wasn't allowed to be out of the tube before he was done. Considering he was able to be conscious before even Black Doom's involvement he was at least considered alive before being complete. Gerald's statements about having control over Shadow's memories would more implied Gerald had made the memories of Maria more prominent.
What do you think? Are Shadow's memories on the ARK real or fake?
Also, huge thank you to 1v1.LOL for making this video possible! Download 1v1.LOL, the hyper battle royale for FREE! onevone.onelink.me/B5hL/5t0x8urp
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In my opinion the shadow on the ark and the shadow in Sa2 are 2 different shadows!
J.j. Abrams:-"Well, what are stories, but mystery boxes"? Shadow:-"what's in the box"!? Seriously, they should be real otherwise shadow should've gone down.
You're damn straight these are real memories!
i think by “i have finally completed shadow,” he means that he completed altering shadow’s mission from protecting humanity to destroying it
That's what I was thinking
But that doesn't work. We saw Shadow get launched into outerspace. Then he's randomly in suspended animation on Prison Island. Shadow escaped from the ARK. How did Gerald get him back? I still think Sonic was the real Project Shadow (He just doesn't remember it); and the current Shadow was a clone made to get revenge on humanity. This would also explain why Sonic and Shadow are similar, but opposites. Shadow has a little more Black Arms genetics, though.
@SSJacksWolf 1.) Gerald got him back because they apparently let him go after the ark, and he must have done it behind the scenes to be able to alternate shadows mind.
2.) I think Gerald based shadows design off the mural in Sonic 3 hidden palace (only a theory tho).
@@SSJacksWolf that doesnt make sense because gerald based shadow off of sonic and the bio lizard off of chaos. also its been stated multiple times that sonic is pure organic matter
@@SSJacksWolfGun could have simply found Shadow's capsule and gave to Professor Gerald in order to "complete" Shadow. Also, there's a problem with your Sonic is the real project Shadow theory. No where is it implied that Sonic is the real Project Shadow or any information given in the games. The reason why Sonic and Shadow are similar is because Professor Gerald based Shadow specifically on the mural in Hidden Palace that depicts Super Sonic fighting against Dr. Eggman. Meaning that Gerald was doing research on Angel Island, which makes sense since he had possession of the Chaos Emeralds, and because the Biolizard is based off of Perfect Chaos. Not to mention, I'm pretty sure it was said that Sonic comes from a place called "Christmas Island" meaning Sega had and have no intention on making Sonic "the real Project Shadow".
I think his memories with Maria ARE real, just tampered with, and no one can convince me otherwise. As for "what more could GUN want Gerald to do", I'd wager they wanted him to either amplify Shadow's killer instincts to make him more of a weapon they could use, OR render Shadow a pacifist so he wouldn't be a threat (as they were likely still fuming after the Gizoid incident).
GUN didn't want anything, they are a government bureaucracy. They feared Gerald's power, so they shut down his research, only to reopen the research with Gerald as a prisoner, only to completely screw that up and allow Gerald enact his plan for revenge. Everyone running the project was incompetent.
That makes a lot of sense. Also I think his memories of Maria are real too. The idea of them being fake is not an appealing thought especially when my favorite depiction of Shadow is in SA2 and Sonic 2006.
did we just forget the whole ending for Shadow the hedgehog where Maria and Gerald appear in a recording addressing Shadow directly?
@@s.fire7778 I didn't.
This is what I think, also. Gerald definitely altered Shadow's memories, whether the Shadow we know is the "real" Shadow or not.
Tbh, I thought the "I had finally finished Shadow" line was because he had finally finished all those tests he had Shadow doing. I thought Shadow did know and talk to Maria, but he still had to do tests after his creation. Just because Gerald finally finished him doesn't mean he couldn't had been in a state still able to converse with Maria.
This is what I'm thinking too, remember that Shadow, while a governement project given to Gerald, he (Gerald), used it as a way to find a cure for Maria's illness, as he was researching ways for imortality and such to apply it to Maria, which shadow was able to do for himself, but he wasn't able to apply it to Maria, meaning Gerald needed more testing in order to figure out that cure, and therefore Shadow was deemed "incomplete" but sadly his reasearch was put to a stop when G.U.N raided the ark, and when he found Maria to have been killed, he no longer wanted to find a cure since it would have been pointless, and instead with his anger finalized Shadow with the intent to destroy the planet.
Shadow had full sentience, already and was indeed able to speak and interact with Maria, just he wasn't "complete" with the goal Gerald intended, and futhermore during his inprisonment, Gerald tapped into shadow's memories altering them slightly so it wouldn't impeade his mission of collecting the 7 Chaos Emeralds, that being said however more of his memories started to awaken as we see in events of SA2, where he starts off curious of who he is, and he then starts getting flashes of his past. Essentially Gerlad could "control" his memories, but not destroy them.
There's only one hole in this theory: Shadow's final memory about Maria telling him to make everyone happy. If his memories of Maria are in fact fake, why would Gerald have Maria say that to Shadow?
When Gerald saw the list of dead ppl he saw Maria had a last words "Bring hope to humanity" (source - Sonic Battle)
There was a real "Shadow"; and Maria said that to the real "Project: Shadow". He was lost during the escape, but Gerald was able to clone him and mess with the clone's memories. The real Project: Shadow woke up decades later with amnesia and took on the name "Sonic" due to his speed.
@@SSJacksWolf What the heck? bruh
@@SSJacksWolf crazy yap session
@@SSJacksWolf so you're saying the real project shadow was sonic?
if gerald did indeed clone project shadow, he would look identical to the real project shadow.
there are too many differences between shadow and sonic for shadow to be a clone of sonic.
I feel like one thing that throws a bit of a wrench in things is the fact that Shadow being unfinished and Shadow being able to walk and talk to others around the ARK aren't mutually exclusive ideas. Shadow could've used a few more touches after he let out. It's kind of like how his big brother the Biolizard was most likely out and about before its mutation and rampage. All of these things could've happened to an unfinished Shadow that was finished and had certain memories locked away in his brain due to Gerald's insanity. Those are just my thoughts on the matter.
This is what I believe as well.
There is a wrench by the Fan Video. Shadow on the ark with Gerald acting like Jim Carrey. It makes the situation more nuanced with shadow’s memories being 100% real and that he was complete by brainwashing after Maria died.
It’s possible
Well the Biolizard was mostly in containment due to how animalistic it ended up being. Once it grew to its immense size it was moved to the Central Dome (the Core) where it could be held.
I believe that shadow was at a state of development where he could actually experience life. He could walk talk and more. But wasn’t finished, due to the requirements (such as immortality), he would be put back into the capsule to be further experimented on. His memories were probably true, due to some things that Gerald couldn’t have known without shadow telling him when he hung out with Maria (don’t remember off the top of my head).
This is an excellent point. And I'm also thinking perhaps the way it's visually represented may not even be completely accurate, it may only be how Shadow remembers it. Maybe Shadow was in a development capsule or otherwise not 'fully there' the way the cutscenes show it, i.e. he was conscious but still incomplete, but he didn't have awareness in that and considered himself complete.
@@Racecar564 Thank you. It would make sense that shadow could actually function properly and still be well ya know alive. Because shadow needed the black arms dna to help. So only god knows what else Gerald needed for help. Or what he never finished
The way I interpreted Shadow’s story was the memories and emotions he had in his time with Maria are genuinely real. That he was mostly ‘incomplete’ when they were together, as if he was, then Maria wouldn’t still be suffering from her illness. This idea that he was incomplete can echo throughout their escape, being less capable than the version he is now.
How I personally always saw it that Gerald simply manipulated Shadow’s core existing memories to act upon his vengeful mission when he was tasked to weaponize him for GUN.
That is just me though!
Sonic x actually tackled this theory when rouge confronted Shadow about his memories not being real but he didn’t care
good theory but sonic x is a seperate canon
This literally happens in the game. X's arcs are based on the Adventure games.
@@evdestroy5304 they may be based off the games but it went is a different thing cause in sonic x japanese version a soldier said he killed maria while she was about to eject shadow
@@CypherShanilver It does hold more water than one may think. It's highly likely that Sonic X has the true version of SA2's story because Izuka, Maekawa and Hohshino who all worked on SA2's also worked on the Sonic X adaptation of it. Hoshino recently even confirmed Shadow's limiter rings were meant to be in SA2 and Maekawa confirmed that the missing story details in guides or other media are restored and retained in Sonic X's SA2 adaptation.
@CypherShanilver I don't see how that slight edit changes the fact that Rouge says Shadow's memories are fake in both
I like the idea that Gerald manipulated shadows memories, but creating shadows memories with Maria entirely. I’m still a bit iffy about.
Shadow was only "awake" a week before the Project was shut down, so Gerald would only need to fake a week's worth of memories. But I hold Sonic was Project Shadow, and he went into a coma and had amnesia after escaping the ARK. Gerald simply put the "original" Shadow's memories into a clone.
I mean, I think the conclusion was that it doesn't matter if those are real or not, but his feelings for Maria are, and he loved her based on what he perceives as their time together, he ought to be aware she would have wanted hope for humanity instead of destruction.
I feel like the original plot of SA2 has a large amount of plot holes that lead to this theory. My assumption is that when Gerald says that he’s completed Shadow, he’s referring to altering his memory so that he can carry out his revenge plot. I also believe that he could possibly be referring to his overall revenge plot on earth, considering that Shadow plays the biggest role in it. That’s just me though. It would seem kinda lame to me if it were to be officially revealed that Shadows memories were all manufactured
Sonic Adventure 2 is pretty clear Shadow's memories are fake. There are also hints that Sonic is the "true" Ultimate Lifeform, including Shadow flatout saying that during the final boss fight. Tbh, it's very likely the original intent was Sonic was the one who escaped the Ark, thanks to Maria; and Shadow was created afterwards as a clone of Sonic on Prison Island. This plot thread was abandoned, likely because Shadow was brought back during Sonic Heroes, which almost certainly wasn't the original plan. However, this theory could still totally work if Sega wants to bring it back.
@@SSJacksWolf That was like one line at the end which was meant to tie up the rivalry that Sonic and Shadow had. It was not intended to mean Sonic was the "real Project Shadow".
@@exceedexceed760 How can Sonic use Chaos Control? Black Doom was where Chaos Control comes from.
Idunno, I think that it's a unique idea
@@SSJacksWolf That was a retcon I think, Because Sonic Only used It When He had interacted with the emeralds, Same with shadow In that game specifically, And as For the ultimate life form comment, Shadow really meant that about sonic, Because Something you guys apparently forgot is that every living thing Is a "Life form" So I think He was referencing How strong he was
I think I just means Shadow wasn’t finished, he was alive but not immune to all diseases like planned.
Doesn't the recording of Gerald and Maria in the last story of Shadow the Hedgehog shows that Maria knew Shadow ?
Yeah...That entire recording completely destroys this theory.
Even if Maria wasn't in the recording, Gerald wouldn't have the intention to destroy the black comet if she was already dead.
Why would Maria record a message instead of just telling Shadow herself? Gerald says in the message he found out GUN plans to shut the research down. It seems like this message was recorded before Shadow was completed, but shortly before the project was shut down. The message seems to actually confirm the theory; unless Gerald unexpectedly completed Project Shadow only for it to be immediately shut down; it's likely Project Shadow wasn't completed until after the project had been shut down.
@@SSJacksWolf Maybe they recorded this to guarantee Shadow (and maybe Maria if she was alive) would remember 50 YEARS LATER?
Who knows if they directly talked to him about this, Gerald could easily remove this memory and/or Shadow simply couldn't regain memory of this. Or they just didn't want to put pressure on him at that time since he just got created, or just didn't get much time before ARK got shut down.
Also, this recording feels way too casual to be for a complete stranger that was being artificially created.
@@SSJacksWolf but then gun Commander remembering Shadow finished and awake on the ark destroys this Theory entirely
"Even if my memories are not real, it's still me, Shadow."
Imo this theory does make a lot of sense, but besides that wasn't probably Sega's intention, when Gerald meant "I have finally finished Shadow" maybe that meant he wasn't at a 100% capacity, but still could have met Maria when he had around 70 - 90% of his full capacity
That’s what I think too
Thought the same as well. Like he maybe was as weak as Maria when both of them bonded on the ARK, but Gerald did complete its power and capacity at the same time that was developing his evil plan to destroy Earth. Though. Even if he did met Maria, everything he remember from his time with her is put into question the moment his memories were tampered with. Like, who Maria realyl was and what where her intentions in the end?
I think, Shadows memory is correct as it is. Shadow actually met Maria and everything happened as it should have. After Gerald was captured and Shadow was sent to earth, Gerald did one last change to Shadow, with changing his memory to make him a weapon. I think, Shadow was on the ARK, but was manipulated later on...
This makes Shadow an even more tragic character. Imagine. Your memories that you hold onto aren’t even yours.
You missed the scene where black doom showed shadow a memory of the past in shadow the hedgehog where shadow and Maria were running from the gunman. I think his memories of Maria are real, but he couldn’t fight back during that attack because he wasn’t finished and was probably still unstable.
My best guess, and what I would much rather believe, is that his memories of Maria are real. It's just that Gerald manipulated them to make Shadow forget her wish to protect Earth and humanity, and instead filling him with an urge for revenge in accordance with Gerald's grief. 'Completing' Shadow was likely these manipulations, as well as general finishing touches to go along with the new plan and ensure Shadow was operating at full capacity as a weapon. Back on the Ark, he was awake, but unfinished, and not yet intended to be weaponized. Back then, he was just a person.
A hole within this theory is the fact that at the end of ShTH, with the canon ending, both gerald and maria recount maria’s wish to Shadow, and even maria had a talk one to one with shadow, recounting memories they shared with each other. So yeah, Shadow’s memories were only altered
There's always the chance that Shadow may have been 'awakened' before Gerald considered him 'completed' from his point of view
Honestly shadow having implanted memories gives me the same vibes as KH Chain of memories in which Organization 13 specifically wanted to manipulate sora a keyblade wielder to their side through making him think namine was his childhood friend and he forgot. That's about the only similarity though honestly. Also in his game its pretty clear he is done with humanity and past ghosts once he is at the final story. Very good theory honestly and it lines up with his characterization in his game and 06 as well. I would have to guess writers left shadow's past ambiguous when it comes to his involvement with the ark and whether he knew maria and Gerald or not.
Oh man my head hurts. I remember for the longest time that Gerald altered Shadow’s memories and seen people mention it on CZcams, but when I went back to playing SA2 (and finally beat the game after so many years lol) I didn’t notice anything that suggested that. Although I always found it strange how in Gerald’s diary how he said he finished Shadow after Maria’s death which seemed pretty bizarre to me. It’s like a painter taking their piece from a gallery to finish it. Also it confuses me how he could alter the eclipse canon and the biolizard to complete his vengeance if he was on Prison Island. I don’t think GUN is dumb enough to say sure we can take you to the space colony Ark to work on a super secret project even other Thursday. However I didn’t question it much since I knew I was not going to get a solid answer and just chalked it up as he was damaged during his pod’s landing and had to have the damages tended to or Gerald lied to GUN that Shadow was not done yet to make these alterations. But who could say. Honestly I like to believe that his memories about his time with Maria are true.
Archie Comics actually explains this. The GUN soldiers overseeing Gerald's research weren't scientists, so they had no idea what Gerald was doing, and GUN just trusted Gerald was doing what he said he was. As soon as a higher up found this out, he immediately executed Gerald because he realized Gerald was up to something, but it was too late, Gerald finished his plans. It's also possible Shadow was the one who reprogrammed the Eclipse Canon in modern times when nobody was watching. Also, if Shadow really did know Maria, why would Maria record the message for Shadow at the end of Shadow's game? It certainly seems from that recording that Maria didn't know who Shadow was. I still hold Sonic is the "Ultimate Lifeform" and Shadow was a clone made later.
so sonic is 50 years old then?
@@moises3640 He was in suspended animation in the escape pod. Or he was in a coma after crash landing, but survived due to being immortal. Either way, he has amnesia and doesn't know where he came from.
@@SSJacksWolf But I don’t know if you could call Archie canon especially when none of it was acknowledged by Sega. But I guess that is an explanation and I respect if you think differently. That is an interesting possibility though. It is possible that Shadow altered it himself. As far as the Maria recording I don’t remember that however I never beaten Shadow the hedgehog (it was not the game for me ever though it was about my favorite Sonic character). I will have to look that up although the game was a mess to me and was entirely unnecessary. But hey that’s just my opinion and I respect if you have a different opinion on the game. However as a hardcore SA2 fan Shadow is the only Ultimate Lifeform in my opinion. But Sonic is in a league on his own. Unless Sega plans to set this in Sonic x Shadow Generations they will most likely just leave this up to fan interpretation.
because the line about alternation of shadow's memories only exists in original japanese version of the game, the english translation somehow managed to screw it up and change this line to '' i made his mind pure'' or something like that... sa2 has quite a lot of translation errors that lead to hella ton of fan theories that aren't really needed cause its already answered in the games. gerald altered shadows memories of maria's last wish and speech from amy resembled the words maria said back then, so he remembered it. in shadow 2005 last story shadow is shown a video of gerald and maria telling him about black arms, so maria knew him. also there are several levels with maria where they interact and recall memories of having fun on the ark, maria mentions that shadow used to play running down the ark's slopes and they overall seem very familiar with each other at that point. i really should stop yapping about sonic lore and go back to writing my term law papers...
I mean, Gerald did mess with his memory after he lost Maria and made that revenge plan. I know that Shadow saw everything and remembers what Maria told him about saving humanity
It’s a neat thought but definitely falls apart with Shadow breaking through the memory modications at the end of Sa2 and how crude the modifications are with Gerald not even being able to change Maria’s wish and just having to supress it from his memory. And don’t see why Gerald would out in a memory that messes with his plan and if it was to give him a more positive view on Maria why would it he then suppress it after intentionally putting it in?
7:43 aint nothing but a heartache
Tell me why
@@thefastcommenter7774 ain’t nothing but a mistake
On one Hand this Theory does make sense as Gerald did manipulate Shadow’s Mind but on the Other Hand I don’t think it’s True as I don’t believe Gerald was capable of putting False Memories of his Granddaughter, plus I think the Words”I Have Finished Shadow” was more of Finishing the Final Details of Shadow’s Biology while Implanting Tons of Anger and Hatred.
Oof I'm prob late.... but shadow was on the ark, he was with Maria, he was launched from the ark by Maria. He was unfinished at the time and it was stated that Gerald was putting the finishing touches together. When GUN grabbed Gerald they recovered Shadow and made him finish the job. Gerald made the inhibitor rings and completed intelligence conditioning when on planetside and while he worked he played with Shadow's mind to get revenge for Maria
When Eggman enters Prison Island, the password to release Shadow is “Maria”, meaning there really was someone significant named Maria in the Robotnik family. I’d say it checks out
I agree with this to some extent. I believe that his memories are tampered with, but are real. I believe that he was on the ark and was able to play with Maria when he wasn't getting researched and studied, considering he was able to look around and seemed to be conscious in his tube this makes me think he'll be able to walk around and play before getting completed on prison Island
If game theory doesn't want to do another sonic theory, chaomix will 😅
Gerald definitely tampered with Shadow's memories, but it was only Maria's last wish that was altered. When Gerald says Shadow is now complete, he's likely referring to the altered memories. Shadow was definitely friends with Maria.
Thing about this is, Sonic X sa2 arc was written by Maekawa and he put in stuff originally cut from the game. And Sonic X had a storyline where the GUN soldier recalls the events of shooting maria, and they were very different from shadow's. To start with, Shadows memories were blurry and unclear and certainly not cohesive, while the soldier's were very strong and drawn without filters, signifying that its more real than what Shadow remembers. That alone doesnt mean much, but, the soldier remembers Maria standing with her hands upon the lever and a vague silhouette of Shadow completely submerged in some liquid or something and not reactive - complete contrast to how Shadow remembers it. And Maria didnt talk to Shadow at all, she just pressed the lever and was shot.
Because Maekawa wrote it like that, its certainly possible this was his original plan for the game story too, as he mentioned there were crucial scenes he had to cut for budget reasons.
Todays game canon is that Shadows memories are real, its just fun to point out the original intentions.
@@KOTEBANAROT Sonic X is a pretty poor adaptation, but it is certainly not for the broad stokes of the restorations and additions, they are all really good conceptually(Like the retired soldier and Amy seeing Gamma explode). Infact, one of the unused cutscene dialogues from SA2 not only managed to become adapted, it also just became canon to the games in Shadow the Hedgehog.
Damn man, you literally busted all of shadow's lore that has been outhere for over 20 years. That's pure dedication
Gonna say that this is a good thing to go back to after the new Prologue and SxS Gens in general. The fact that Emerl was there at the same time as Shadow twists a few things around.
It should be noted that Rouge even sees the discrepancy. She says Project Shadow was sent to earth in a capsule and was never recovered, then asks “who, or what, are you?”
Really sucks that"bourne identity"came out one whole year after, adventure 2. Because could've given them guidelines handling their amnesiac CoProtagonist properly! Anyone else with me?
@@normalgraham. Clichés are like recipes, experimentation is good, but sometimes, you're just risking an already well tested dish's good taste. Ever seen ratatoulie for example?
EXCELLENT WORK. CHAOMIX SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG DARKEST LORE
This could lead to a horrifying scene when Shadow dies and meets Maria in heaven, she just says “oh, grandpa finished his research” or “I’m sorry, who are you?”
YES YES YES THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO!!! I've had this theory FOREVER and have gone down SO many rabbit holes researching it!! I don't think it will ever be proven without a shadow of a doubt (pun intended), but the implications are DEFINITELY there.
Another interesting bit of evidence that wasn't mentioned in this video: Sonic X episode 37 - Robotnik's Revenge (referencing the japanese because we know how 4kids loves to remove lines). In this episode, we see the moment where Maria is killed from 2 different perspectives: Shadow's flashback of the moment, and a recount of the tale from Mr. Smith, the GUN soldier who regretfully shot Maria.
In Shadow's flashback, we see things play out just as they do in SA2: Maria and Shadow are running through the ARK hallway, and then Maria talks to Shadow as she pulls the lever to send him to Earth (with the part where she says her last wish conveniently obscured by the noise of gunshots and explosions). She pulls the lever while looking him in the eyes, and the capsule is ejected.
However, in Mr. Smith's memory, we see the GUN soldiers arrive on the base and witness several creatures in bubbling tubes - obviously experiments, some probably failed versions. We see a lizard in a tube, much smaller than the biolizard as we see him in SA2, but alive and well. Mr Smith then spots Maria and he chases her as she runs away - notably without Shadow in tow. She enters a room with a lever and is looking up at 2 experiments in bubbling tubes, one of which is presumably Shadow, unawake and incomplete. She grabs onto the lever. Mr Smith warns her not to pull it, but she simply frowns, decision evident in her eyes, and pulls. She is immediately shot to death by Mr. Smith (who regrets this action). We are then shown the 2 capsules falling through space, going toward Earth as Mr Smith says "the specimens were lost." This lines up with Rouge in SA2 later finding that Project Shadow was sent to earth in a capsule and was never recovered, then asking, “just who, or what, are you?”
I know I will get some people coming at me saying Sonic X isn't canon, but I just think this scene, and these purposely differing accounts of the same event, are very interesting when combined with Rouge's research and suspicions. It's what first introduced me to this theory and I have not stopping thinking about Shadow's memory being (possibly) completely fake since.
We know at least in Sonic X that his memories are real . In one of the episodes, the reporter Scarlett Garcia interviews the gun soldier who tracked Maria and Shadow down and shot her, and he broke down while Scarlett Garcia was interviewing him so we know at least in Sonic X continuity, Shadows memories are real
2 shadow videos in a row we’ve been blessed ‼️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️
I personally think that some memories may be false, but the one at the end of SA2 where he finally remembers Maria's dying wish IS real. I want this because it's inspiring to see a character not only remember his traumatic experience, but to also do something that will heal him as a character! That's powerful stuff!
Shadow physically existed before he was completed. I think the ‘I have finally completed Shadow’ line means that he has made Shadow the cure to all illnesses and made him the true ultimate life-form. Gerald would never tell anyone though because he wanted humans to suffer, not prosper.
Edit: If the fake memories were overwritten, how could Shadow be there.
My personal theory is that Shadow's memories are real but tampered with slightly to fit Gerald's vengeful rhetoric.
You know this movie called "The Island" with Scarlett Johansson? Pretty much she's a clone with fake memories. Project Shadow and The Shadow Androids kinda reminds me of that a little.
What about Bourne identity?
the way i look at it is that shadow interacted with Maria before Gerald had finished him. shadow could very well have been like, conscious and alive before his completion. so i think maria's final wish to him is an actual memory, but Gerald suppressed it upon recovering Shadow.
Thats a really good theory. I think the reason shadow’s memory of Maria was engineered by Gerald Robotnik into Shadows mind was because, like you explained, Gerald wanted Shadow to carry on Maria’s memory in which Robotnik couldn’t. I also think that in Sonic X when they showed Gerald tied up and getting shot, that wasn’t GUN executing Gerald, it was likely his suicide machine he created because he could no longer live with such grief, thus, passing on the same feelings of grief and revenge towards humans to Shadow to carry on Geralds memory of Maria. And its also possible that Gerald kind of “synced” his and Shadows memory together, because through the grief and revenge, he still had a faint longing to continue Marias legacy of bringing peace/hope to humanity
Best lore arc EVER.
Maybe Shadow was not completely finished in the technical sense, but he was enough to leave the capsule for periods of time and be able to spend short moments with Maria in the colony before having to lock himself inside the capsule again and then, After the attack on the ark, Gerald finally finished Shadow completely but while he was asleep in his capsule, Gerald changed his good memories for vengeful ones.
Another banger from Chaomix. Love your content always
I'm so glad you are going into this! When SA2 came out when I was a teen, I was under the impression that his memories of her were fake.
9:20 The game does specifically have scenes showing his "tampered" memory of Maria asking for revenge, and his "real" memories of Maria asking him to be a savior of humanity. That's what it's alluding to, as it's pointing to existing memories that have been altered to fit Gerald's desires.
9:50 That's literally the whole point of part of his arc. See above.
I feel like like part of this theory comes down to not paying attention to or noticing some of the cutscenes, or the nuance within them. Yes, Gerald altered Shadow's memories, but he didn't plant entirely new ones. It's like the "everything is a dream" theory that gets thrown at every story, it's reductive and makes everything kind of meaningless while also engineering itself to be un-falsifiable, because everything that could contradict it is "also a false memory".
Also, I think this isn't going to age well what with the animated short tied to Shadow Generations coming soon.
It's a cool theory, but personally, I always interpreted it as Shadow being an ongoing project, he was allowed to walk around the arc while still being in development.
He didn't necessarily have to be complete in order to be interacting with Maria on the ARK
This is a wild theory that seems like it could actually be what they were aiming for originally in SA2, but it seems they retconned it.
Who knows though? Maybe SonicXShadow Generations is more important than we might realize...
I loved your project shadow lore video so much, I watched it together with my partner and best friend together when we were hyperfixated on the entirety of the sonic game series timeline
This completely recontextualizes everything that has made Shadow who he is up till now and this is unofficially canon to me now.
This is actually a pretty reasonable theory. But unfortunately, it's one of those things where Sega themselves clearly didn't intend for this to happen. To them, Shadow's memories are 100% real, but corrupted by Gerald. Because of this mindset, this theory will get increasingly harder to justify over the years... But it's still cool and would make an interesting plot point
It's actually not that simple. In the prologue titled "The Truth of 50 Years Ago..." by SA2's writer Shiro Maekawa, the file Rouge finds details GUN's records of the events, which states that the ejected capsule was never recovered, and that "there is no way to know whether the Shadow sealed on Prison Island was a replica created by Gerald or the real Shadow that was ejected toward the surface and recovered..."
On top of this, according to the Jan 6th Bumblekast by Ian Flynn in 2020, (timestamp 1:01:18) SEGA apparently /still/ doesn't want to discard the android/fake Shadow plotline yet, which is confusing for anyone else who goes off of ShTH's Eggman quote as gospel for this, but actually lines up with this ambiguity.
It's anyone's guess whether they ever return to this or not; it could just be built-in ambiguity to ensure that the details of his in-universe lore match the uncertainty Shadow has of his past himself, or it could mean that the original Shadow crashed somewhere on earth and Gerald created an entire replica that has completely fabricated memories, or it could be a 1-to-1 clone in memories using a process like Metroid's save points, or it could mean that Shadow found his way to Gerald eventually after the fact, which ended with Gerald removing his memory of Maria's wish.
It's been ambiguous since the very start, and if SEGA still wants to retain that aspect, then who knows?
I think the memories were just tampered with. Even if he was complete, he could have been allowed to live freely aboard the Ark and interact with the others. Who knows, it might have even been necessary to develop his psyche.
Nice theory. I have a slightly variation, he met Maria, but briefly, and without even being friends, both coexist on Ark for like one year (up to debate).
This makes a lot of sense and it's mind blowing to see how we could of have missed these clues from years ago honestly if anything this makes me love shadow even more he such a complicated an interesting character and this is why he soo well beloved also I love your videos the shadow video has just help clear a lot of things that the fanbase has misunderstood thank you 🙏 ❤
So basically during the 50 year period that Shadow was sealed away he was reliving those false memories?
I'm not convinced that Shadow wasn't alive and conscious on the Ark. Not being complete doesn't mean not given any freedoms, there's a good chance Gerald was, in the process of creating Shadow on Ark, letting him out and allowing him to get to know Maria exactly to design his mind as "perfect" and "pure." So when he was completing the project on Prison Island, it's possible that he just overwritten the old version of his memories with the new one.
Shadow was not created after Maria's death. His completion is modification after the fact. His real memories with Maria were overwritten until he talked with Amy.
There are two major flaws in this theory and a minor one.
The minor flaw is the now commander being alive. If Shadow had not been there the GUN soldier had no reasonable grounds to shoot her. After all, she was a small child, like "Abraham".
The first major flaw is that this theory assumes completion equals creation and if you have experience in engineering and applied sciences, you know that it doesn't work that way. Shadow could still have been in his testing phase during the raid. Considering the scope of the project, not everything could've been done in a testing tube.
What blows this theory to pieces is the fact that Maria DID know Shadow. As the Black Arms left, Gerald created the Eclipse cannon to destroy them. He left a recording message to Shadow where Maria Knows Shadow and encourages him. Maria wouldn't be talking to "Grandpa's creations" like she did if she did not already have a connection with Shadow to begin with. She would be out of it.
7:18
The "have/had" distinction in "I have finally completed Shadow" is a red herring because in the actual Japanese sentence there is no equivalent. ついにシャドウを完成させた just means "Finally I completed Shadow."
It's just in the past tense, with no indication as to how recently Shadow was completed.
I think the fan translator just put the "have" in there so it would sound more natural when spoken.
I was gonna say something about that too 😆 glad to find someone else who understands Japanese ^^
People take the fantranslation too much for granted. For example, it uses "Earth" uppercase as the planet name when that has never been the case, it has always been simply "earth" lowercase. It's a silly name that basically just means "surface", but it is the official name. Infact, when I doublechecked the fansubs at some point, I noticed that at least one instance of "Earth"(In Gerald's message to be whole world) is infact just "Sekai", which just means "World".
If that ain't proof that localization, even fanlocalization, can screw up on nuance, then idk what will be.
"Sure, Shadow was awake and conscious in the GUN commander's flashback, but that doesn't mean he was actually finished."
Previously...
"How could Shadow be spending time (awake and conscious) with Maria if he wasn't finished!? Must be fake."
did we just forget the whole ending for Shadow the hedgehog where Maria and Gerald appear in a recording addressing Shadow directly?
Thank you for making this video! I've been waiting for someone to make something about this. There's an interesting line in Gerald's diary in the Japanese translation that Shadow's mind is based on "the original" which I doubt was meant to imply the biolizard, though I suppose in a weird way could be true. Either there was someone who got ejected out of the space colony that Shadow now has the memories of, or the Biolizard used to be maria's pet before it grew too large to control and Gerald based Shadow's mind off of the feelings it had towards her and made them think they were his. Either way, until they make an official statement on this strange element of his character I guess we'll never know what the original vision was
These are the type of Sonic theories I want to see The Game Theorists talk about. Great video.
Shadow the Hedgehog be goin' through the Castle of Oblivion Arc right now. lol.
This all hinges on what Gerald meant by "completing" Shadow
I think Shadow has genuine memories, and his incomplete state was just down to a few more tests that verified Shadow was a successful end product (Feels weird to call him a product, but you know why), since it seems GUN decided to nip the project before any real answers could be given.
Gerald then altered Shadow's memories post-Maria, while also doing some likely finalizations to guarantee Shadow was ready, but then his insanity got the better of him, and thus Shadow was deemed incomplete, but likely Shadow is fully complete as the Ultimate Lifeform
My understanding is that Shadow was allowed to walk freely around the ARK while still in development. After being ejected by Maria and falling to Earth, he was recovered and THEN finally completed under GUN supervision. There are GUN reports that match the events in Shadow's memories, and Black Doom also remembers the events in the same way when he shows them to Shadow (how would this be possible?).
HOWEVER! Now that I think about it... When the GUN Commander tells Shadow about the past as he remembers it, he describes Maria as being like family to him. If they were that close, how come the Commander doesn't mention spending time with Shadow, or Shadow remembers the Commander at all? Shadow only remembers Maria...
The commander's flashback in the background of the narration should be the answer to this. He was downright terrified, so he likely purposefully stayed away from Shadow and by extension Maria when they spent time together. Even if Shadow saw him once or twice, it would have been so brief that Shadow not remembering seems appropriate.
Not to mention that he cannot have been that present and noticable in the few days between Shadow's awakening and the raid, when he slipped through the cracks and survived.(It seems like he was gone that day anyways, otherwise he would know that GUN is responsible for the "accident" that murked the entire crew and not Shadow.)
this actually blew my mind with the way that it flips almost everything i knew about project shadow on its head, it's genuinely eye opening thinking about all of this
It was stated that an escape pod was found after the ARK was raided. If Shadow was made or "finished" after the raid, who the hell was in that escape pod? I think Shadow did meet Maria and everything, but Gerald didn't consider Shadow finished/complete until after the madness kicked in, and he started messing with Shadow's brain. That'd why it takes Shadow a while for him to remember what Maria actually said to him. The real memories were always there, but due to trauma and Gerald's manipulation, everything got warped.
Also, we don't know what actually made Shadow "finished" in the first place. Sure, Shadow could walk and talk, but considering that he was supposed to be the ultimate lifeform, I think he would have gone through a bunch of tests. That's probably why he wasn't finished by the raid. Everything was cut short, so Shadow was at most maybe 30-40% complete. I doubt he was more than 50% along in his development since he was still wondering about his own existence and was very naïve. Shadow was like a toddler, which is what I'm trying to say. Fresh out of the pod, figuring his way around this new existence.
When Gerald was sent to Prison Island and Shadow was recovered by G.U.N. That would have been when Gerald was forced to finish making Shadow. Shadow was supposed to be a weapon, after all. That's why the military was involved in the first place. The Sonic Channel artwork depicts how, at first, Shadow was just learning about the world and things around him. Maria taught him about the things she knew, and they were both given a basic education by Gerald.
Also, did we all forget that G.U.N. raided the ARK because they found out about the Biolizard? They wanted to kill everyone on board because of that thing, but when they found out Gerald made Shadow, they spared him. That's the reason why Gerald wasn't immediately executed and sent to Prison Island. They still had a use for him.
So, to conclude my rant(?) I think that Shadow's memory situation is a lot easier to explain than it seems. It's like a video timeline in an editing software. You have the full video uncut in its original format, and then you do some audio splicing and cut a few moments out of the video and present this new video like it's the original. However, the original video file is still stored on the harddrive it's just in a locked folder that you forgot the password for.
Honestly, though, the theory makes much more sense if Shadow The Hedgehog (2005) didn't exist became that game retconned a lot of stuff SA2 did. I just remembered that the original narrative was that the capsule was never recovered, and that's why Rouge was so confused by Shadow. Then Sonic Team said, "Fuck it, lets throw all that out the window."
Shadow was alive on the Ark, just not finished
Always a sunny day when my boy chao drop
This could either be two things: one sonic team slept on their desk and forgot to make cohesive writing, or two this was a plot point to be later developed but they forgot
Shadow wasn't started after Ark was shut down, he was (as those clips you provided yourself say) _completed_ - Shadow was in incomplete during his time on the Ark, he met Maria and she tried to help him escape when it was being shut down. Gerald then goes insane from Maria's death and finishes Shadow as ordered to, but goes a step further and tries to twist Shadow's memories in the process so he would eventually wipe out humanity. Amy helped Shadow move past his brainwashing, as her earnest plea with him to make people happy reminded him of Maria, and unlocked the sealed memory.
This better explains why Shadow had a memory of Maria's actual wish for humanity inside him, Gerald wouldn't put that there if he was already mad and wanting humanity to die. Why include it and then suppress it? Nah his memories were still tampered with, but by removing any that would hinder his plan for revenge rather than inserting fake ones to motivate him.
I used to have that theory, where shadow's memories r actually Gerald's. He installed his consciousness in shadow, but then shadow only remembered those vague memories
I had someone try to argue this theory to me a little while ago and at the time it seemed a bit more farfetched. The way you've explained it in this video makes it seem a lot more plausible.
The way it went in the first version I heard however was that this WAS meant to be the case in SA2 but later games retconned it. As he was shown to be onboard the ARK in Shadow 05 so it seems to make sense that he definitely could have known Maria in actuality. If Gerald had not only completed Shadow but had only started working on him while on Earth it would be cut and dry but even an "incomplete" Shadow could still have lived out some of his ARK memories.
I took it that Shadow's memories were tampered with by Gerald but his friendship with Maria was a real memory. It makes emotional sense to me that him remembering Maria's real wish for humanity was due to Gerald's feelings about her, but it makes more logical sense that that's just actually something he witnessed. Then again, SA2 has a lot of plot points that don't make a lot of sense logically.
Shadow is basically Gerald’s Sonic OC made real in the end hahaha😂
jokes aside I think this is a really interesting theory and that Shadow’s memories with Maria could just be Gerald’s memories with her
Just finished watching the last Shadow's story video and saw this.
His memories are obviously altered, SA2 makes no sense if they're not, but all the supplemental additions to the story after SA2 make it hard to believe they were never real to begin with.
Wow, never thought about this!
I believe that Shadow's memories of Maria wanting Shadow to help humanity are real and that Gerald also added fake anti-human memories into Shadow's mind after he became insane because of Maria's death and no-one can ever convince me otherwise.
I WONDER IF WE GET SOMETHING RELATED TO THIS IN SXSG ITD BE SO MESSED UP BUT SO COOL
Oh this will be fun to revisit once we get the journal ourselves in Oct. I really hope they don’t do something too crazy
I believe Shadow’s memories were real and Gerald just altered them a bit to make shadow avenge him. And Shadow might’ve been able to move around and stuff on the arc but he still wasn’t fully complete by the time the G.U.N. Raid happened and such.
Shadow After Seeing This Video: *MY LIFE IS A LIEEEEEEE !!!!!*
Rouge: *Not Again >:V !!!!!!*
I cant wait to see him actually say " but thats just a theory A GAME THEORY"
When Shadow falls to earth in the beginning and end of SA2, I believe he is sort of comatose and probably suffering some injuries. We just never see the damage, so we don't know his healing process or how resilient he is, but think about it this way: you make a really swell bedside table, but just before you can bring it up to your room, something happens and it gets damaged. You repair the damage and bring it up to your room. Though you could consider it complete before, it is now properly completed since it has no significant damage. As for "complete control" over Shadow's memories, I believe that is quite simply an overstatement. Gerald probably put some sort of block on Shadow's memory while he was healing to prevent him from remembering the true nature of his promise. When Shadow woke up, he likely remembered a promise vaguely, and maybe had a sense of anger, either injected or as a natural stage of grief, thus assuming he promised revenge. His only human contact being The Doctor probably fueled his anger; Shadow's not dumb, he knows Eggman is evil (especially when he threatens Amy with a gun). Then notice Rouge is holding up a picture of the BioLizard, which was probably the more publicized aspect of Project Shadow. Shadow doesn't look as much like a superweapon, and attempting to explain why he is a superweapon gets dangerously close to explaining the pact with Black Doom, which would look REALLY BAD on Gerald's part. So there probably aren't that many pictures of Shadow lying around. He was the space colony's public secret. People probably saw him around and knew he was some sort of experiment, but otherwise didn't really question the specifics. So Rouge might have assumed that he was built later. Though she seems like the type to have insider info, so maybe she was just trying to get Shadow to reconsider what he was doing, knowing full well from the commander that he existed on the Ark for a long time in secret? Also entirely possible that SA2 went in the direction of his memories being faked but then the series is like "nah Maria's pretty cool ngl, let's kill her more often" so baddabingbaddaboom RETCONS BABY!
That’s it i give up on Sonic lore
I don’t really like this theory. I think Shadow was actually friends with Maria and everything happened but later had his memories altered by Gerald. That’s what makes most sense.
That would be the worst thing for Shadow. That guy is getting more and more insane at every new game. He doesn't need even that.
The only theory I have that's this crazy is the potential kinship between Shadow and Sonic... I blame RubyofBlue for that.
Um... If Shadow never met Maria then what actually killed her? The same marine just... Killing a little girl that had nothing to do with the project?
Last Story of his game proves otherwise and he's not made by Eggman thanks to Eggman's confession so.
Edit:The LS reveals a recording with Gerald and Maria together which not just Shadow sees so if it was just fake memories, that wouldn't be there.
Chaomix..you are a genius i would've not notice forever...thank you for covering this theory
I’ve always imagined that the line of him finally completing shadow means that shadow was functional but incomplete. To add to this why would shadow not use any of his abilities when the ark was being destroyed and maria was getting shot unless maybe he didn’t have them at all as he was not finished
IMO his memories are real. Though Gerald said Shadow had been completed after Maria's death it doesn't mean Shadow wasn't allowed to be out of the tube before he was done. Considering he was able to be conscious before even Black Doom's involvement he was at least considered alive before being complete. Gerald's statements about having control over Shadow's memories would more implied Gerald had made the memories of Maria more prominent.
So that's basically Sonic's version of Dream Theory.