Moebius N: The Tragedy of Hoarding the Burden - Character Dive (Xenoblade Chronicles 3)
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2023
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Ok, I know I can't have been the only one with deja vu with N for who I said... legends
Good video in total, but I think that you're underselling how the events with Alpha really shaped N. Alpha wasn't just going to take the people of the City to a new land, his actions were going to lead to the death of literally everyone else. Z tempting N wasn't simply an 'endless now' with Mio, but also saying, "Hey, you're strong, right? You're despair and pain is literally our best chance for so many lives to survive. You do this, destroy the City, stop Alpha, and save everyone, and I'll bring back your wife and you'll both be together forever."
Z was tempting N on both a moral level and an emotional level. If N doesn't take the deal, then so many will die, but if he joins, they'll be saved, but he becomes everything he once despised, with the only reward being an eternity with Mio. N ultimately takes the offer, clearly going with a, 'the ends justify the means,' mindset to carry out his job, but this breaks down when he accidentally kills his own son. You're right when you say N was crushed by the burden, even more so because he chose not to tell anyone, because it was 'his' alone to bear. Ultimately, he helps Matthew and the rest stop Alpha, and could possibly turn against Moebius, but like you said, his self loathing keeps him from doing so, because in his own mind, he's already irredeemable.
He made the choice to become the villain to save all those lives and hopefully be reunited with Mio, in an endless now where they'll be free of the hopeless conflict. However, killing Ghondor was something he could not accept or forgive himself for, nor let any other forgive either. It's so strange, looking back to how M was horrified by what N did, yet was never told of the other factors that led to N's choice, and how the death of their own son was an accident. And yet, N allows her to feel that way, never telling her the truth because he refuses to forgive himself, allowing her to hate him as he feels it is what he deserves. Had he told her, she may have been able to get through to him, and they both could've rebelled against Moebius, but N damned them both to misery out of a self pitying penance that helped no one, not even himself. If anything, it made it worse, as having had to sacrifice so much to have Mio back, as well as save the lives of many, N still wants some recompense, some proof that it was worth it, that he made the right choice. But it wasn't and like you said, it literally takes facing the manifestation of all he personally discarded from himself, and get smacked down so many times for him to finally come around.
It's infuriating for N. How come this 'Noah' gets to stand with his 'Mio?' A Noah not faced with the same harsh choices and sacrifices N had to make. Why is he surrounded by hope and companionship, reaping the benefits of N's hard work, while N gets nothing but misery and regret. How could he say that he and his allies were, 'hope,' as though they were self-entitled, divine saviors?! None of them would have gotten anywhere without his actions, and there they were, victorious, while he was broken and alone. Why was he always losing, what gave them the right to win?!
Maybe, like Noah said, they got lucky? N's actions, both good and bad paved the way for Noah's path, and when the time came, Noah had both the strength and freedom to make the choice N couldn't, in both a moral and emotional sense. Noah got lucky, he had a chance to be what N couldn't, and ultimately took it. And yet, the reason for his existence is because he is a manifestation of what N wished he had chose, but didn't. He didn't always have to do what he did. Had he faced down his guilt, worked further with Matthew and the others, tell M the truth about Ghondor, maybe he could've been forgiven, by everyone else, and by himself. And then, maybe he could've turned around, and helped stop Z and Moebius sooner? Had he had the strength to forgive himself, and let go of his burdens, his life could've been much less tragic.
But if he had, then there would never have been the Noah we played as. Fate dealt N a bad hand, and he made the wrong choices, but fortunately, Noah and the others set things straight.
@@shadowwarrior3444 Very well said, it's a whole bunch of tragedy mixed with making decisions for others and not telling the entirety of the why. But honestly, I think N didnt explain to M the full reasoning was because he knew she never would've agreed that he should've allowed them both to live forever for as long as he kills The City people. Because I mean sure stopping Alpha means saving the Citizens from Alpha, but Z's deal was still for him to kill them all anyways so there isn't much of a win anywhere unless he were to accept the Moebius power, defeat Alpha and then defeat Z but I honestly dont think N and M could take out X Y and Z together.
Idk, its a big maybe there but thats what makes these many decisions that just keep stacking up and up and piling onto their now shared misery.
After committing such acts how can they find anybody to understand his actions given his dark deeds or even expect anybody to accept them back into their world. It's so much of making decisions for others and assuming others feelings and thoughts and never truly acting and saying what he really means.
The whole City situation I agree definitely was a needed scenario for him to come around in the base game time. Without that idk if he'd have enough despair in bad decisions and faltering from his great grandchild knocking sense into him, to have broken from losing M in chapter 5-6. Theres so much to think about and consider of what could've been and how much less could've been done or more to be done better.
No, the parallels to a certain Jedi are *undeniable.*
Thanks to Future Redeemed N became my favorite Antagonist in Xenoblade. But Malos still holds a special place in my heart.
You mean antagonist right?
@@bradleydrake6941 thanks
I feel you on that one. Always been more of a Jin person but I respect Malos. I'm just glad another incredible antagonist could be msde for 3, and he aint alone either. Thanks again as usual for watching 🤝
N's story and struggles definitely remind me of Jin. They're two of the most well-written swordsmen in the Xenoblade series.
#SwordOfOrigin
Absolutely, they're pretty similar yet super different. People love talking about who would win in a fight which would be cool but for me, I'd love to just see them sit down and chill and talk lol
@@MetaSF_both also could also use therapy
It’s interesting that seeing how M was able to help resist Moebius shows that N really could have kept trying, he had opportunities like with Origin being controlled by Alpha and Alpha killed but he still held to his Moebius ways. Literally the only thing that could get him out of this mindset is himself, not even the heroes of old or the closest things to the gods of this universe
For sure, but it really was that love that he betrayed making him so guilty he figured he just gotta die on that hill. Even Vader wasn't that stubborn that his son couldnt help him lol, but then again, Aionios' world is special and I doubt outside of it two of the same person could exist like that
Something that hits really hard is that N doesn't cry when losing M, but rather he does tear up when he's accepted and shown kindness by Noah so that he can finally move forward. That's so powerful.
Also, you should do a Joran video! I feel like he gets too much unnecessary hate even though he's very similar to Shania.
For sure, I love the difference in showing his expression at the flames of the City burning from the base game then Future Redeemed. You can really see the suffering and just emptiness in his eyes like he's just holding it all in. Like he's cursed himself harder than anybody else could, so that kindness hits him even more.
Also haven't thought much about a Joran video, I may not like him nearly as much as Shania but I did like his character and think he's for sure a solid antagonist. He gets too much hate but so does shania, I'll definitely consider that idea 🤔
Another thing about the Vader and N parallels is that N is very reminiscent of Grahf from Xenogears (Even the Consul armour is based off Grahf's), who is directly inspired by Darth Vader.
So happy to see Shania fans out there, so many people just dismiss her when she's arguably the most relatable antagonist out there. I love her character.😢
I love her SO much, she's for sure getting a video from me soon, I have to do right by her
I’m glad we finally got a good female villain in this series for once honestly
Her backstory is relatable, everything else about her is nonsensical and illogical, I remember every time she talked after her villain reveal being dumbfounded by how stupid everything she says is
The Anakin comparison is spot on. I can't believe that this never even crossed my mind.
Glad I could put you on, as a big fan of both series', coming to that realization it just hit different
I love when Noah calls N regret and them hope because when N scoffs at them they tell him that M was the one who said that. He just can't stop being wrong!
I gotta say when a person who's so mad gets treated kindly, thats when they REALLY get hit hard
@@MetaSF_ Especially after they colossally beat his ass, then slap him with the facts, then Noah tells him he can move forward again and they merge with a smile on Ns face. I loved it so much!
N is just such a tragic character. Plus you can understand where he’s coming from, he knows he’s wrong, he doesn’t get any joy from this, but he feels as if this is his only way to be with his beloved. I know that feeling a little too much
Not even just about being with her, he even feels like he just can't turn back either. He long since frayed and fractured his relationship with M to the point he could never see her decision coming at all or her true feelings about what he did after all that time. So many different layers to it
N reminds me of Malos, both were put into a position they thought they had no choice/control over (Malos must destroy the world due to Amalthus directive, N must kill what he built with M) and by doing so, the world/loved ones shunned them into that role, or at least they thought so, and deemed themselves irredeemable. "A monster far beyond saving"/"This burden is mine alone to bear". There is a difference though, in that Malos learned to connect with others but still didnt think he deserved a chance, while N disconnected from everyone and just created narratives in his head of why he was right
yea I can see that, N for sure has aspects of Malos, but I always felt he was a lot more like Jin. But he does carry traits of Malos as well for sure, Malos refused the chance to be different all the way to the end, whereas N knew and experienced the power of bonds, but felt after his sacrifice that it was too late to turn back yet in the end still does right before dying. I don't remember if I said it in this video but it definitely gives me vibes of Roxas as well lol
I think N's situation is much more pissed-off than Anakin's cuz N was in an endless cycle, but yeah, in general termns, they're similar
#SwordOfOrigin
And I didnt even notice till thinking more about this video that they were living that life for over 1000 years. I noticed when playing but really thinking about it, jeez man. (Also ty for staying till the end 🤝)
Takahashi loves star wars and I'm not gonna say anything about past characters in other Xeno games
Then he has TASTE
yet another great analysis yet quite overlooked with all this effort. glad you’re pushing through and keep it up
It means a lot to me you thought it was great, these videos will always be here and have full faith in them exploding and inevitable success, and I'll ride the wave! Pleasure to have you here at just the beginning 🤝
I don't think there is another character in fiction that has endured the same level of tragedy N has. Having multiple lifetimes of tragedy and hopelessness, being forced into situations that no sane human can make it out mentally unscathed and to bear all the burdens resulting from your actions... it really makes sense that the only course of action he can take is to comfort himself with lies and convince himself that his choices were correct in order to not completely fall into lunacy. In that regard, N is extremely human in the sense that he had weaknesses and faults like humans did and he acted and reacted to his tragedies in a way that felt natural for humans. That's why N works so well for me on an emotional level and why Monolith Soft did an outstanding job of writing such a compelling character.
#SwordOfOrigin
It's honestly incredible how well he came out, and it's why I say quality of time given is more important than how much time, because although we see N's silhouette in chapter 1 and fully see him for the first time in chapter 3, he doesn't actually become a character till Chapter 4, over halfway through the game. And that time was used SO well. I would've felt so strongly about him even WITHOUT Future Redeemed, then they just went and made him even more incredible, it all works so so well and that's why it hits so hard when we were losing and he started falling apart. Phenomenal character, S tier Xenoblade villain and character in general
Just want to say your thumbnails are godlike bro. Also love your xenoblade videos, you're finally covering my favourite character in the series
That means a lot to me, I try to make these thumbnails appealing and get even me hype lol. Glad you like the videos as well! I'll be covering other series' but Xenoblade will always be big here and working to be even bigger of a creator for the series!
I dont think N necessarily wanted to just toy with ouroboros by cutting their limbs again and again. I think he's using that "entertainment" excuse to cover up the fact that N has tried for MULTIPLE lives to stop mobieus and failed and failed again and again. He doesn't see a way that anyone can even with the power of ouroboros and that's what he is trying to convey. That the struggle is hopeless and that it's not worth it to them. Of course he's wrong but when you spend multiple lifetimes trying to stop mobieus then of course you'll think it's hopeless.
Somebody else proposed that in Future Redeemed he saw that he couldn't truly destroy the Ouroboros without the Moebius and Ouroboros power clashing and getting an even harsher feedback blow on him that harms him, so also found it easier to exhaust the power and kill the holder, or just try and kill the holder. But that's on top of him wanting to try and get them to see how impossible he feels it is to defeat Moebius after all his attempts like you said.
Wow I didn't even realize the strong parallels between N and Anakin!! Amazing video, man. #swordoforigin
Means a lot that you say so, glad you enjoyed it 🤝
Great video as always!
Much appreciated! 👌
Wonderful video. It's so, so important to me that N and Noah are the same person. It would not have hit nearly as hard as it does if they weren't, even aside from the reincarnation/endless cycle plot point.
Seeing the traits you abhor the most about yourself up close, hearing them come from your own mouth - it's even harder to accept. Both for N who saw the hope he buried 1000 years ago rise up time and time again to prove him wrong, and for Noah who had to watch as his own stubbornness turned cold control brought him and his friends to their knees.
Speaking of, one of Noah's traits that gets overlooked kinda often is his tendency to push his view on others, whether they're aware of it or not (lying about his blade because of his philosophy on fighting, even though it could've put his friends in danger; his arguments with Lanz and Mio; his initial refusal to understand what Cammuravi/Ethel wished, and what Crys meant) he's always been stubborn and flawed, and choosing M over the world against her own will is just a magnified version of that. I love him so much.
Also, based Shania liker. She's a FANTASTIC antagonist and character, and I truly find it weird for people to love N and hate her at the same time. Her motivations and ways of thinking made complete sense for her story. #SwordofOrigin
I'm really glad you enjoyed, Noah for sure was so compelling and it still surprises me how N, who doesn't even really get an actual role till over the halfway point of chapters in the game, still absolutely evolves the game and is so well written. Not just him of course but everyone around him and the impact it brings. I think it was in my video where I chose the best scene for each chapter of XC3 where I talked about how Noah was so emotionally mature because of how he grew due to Crys and his own pondering, that he had the hard answers to questions that the others had to come to know when they kinda had to "catch up" to where he was at, so that's why, like you mentioned, the scene in chapter 4 when Mio breaks down happens, it's almost due to an insensitivity on his part. Not to mention him even if he's right, doesn't make it necessarily easier you know. Same with the situation with Lanz you mentioned, him being upset after Joran came back and with his dispute with Noah, Eunie had to talk to Lanz. It's such great details that force him to have to take a step back and look more broadly at other's current emotional state, whether he feels he understands or not.
Also glad to know another Shania enjoyer and have you with us🤝
the darth vader inspiration was so blatant. I love anakin skywalker's arc so much and thats why i love N so much. The pain, suffering, regret, obsession. seeing someone so far gone that they would kill their own. i feel Noah and N are best analyzed as one character. Not just because they are literally the same person, but also the Noah we play as is N's regrets and him and Noah's clash are a battle of the mind for Noah, but in real life. I describe Noah in this game as "Imagine if Anakin existed both as his former self and Vader at the same time and Anakin literally was able to see what he became and Vader still had a reminder on who he once was. Also N's redemption and the fact in the ending Noah is able to live his life makes me really hopeful that Noah in a post Aionios world would live a fulfilling life. also #swordoforigin
It's really incredible how they pulled off someone so akin to Anakin but having their own identity and piling on a whole unique aspect of a whole different version of themselves. Legit kinda like how you said like how Darth Vader referred to Anakin as a different person except in N and Noah's case they are different beings LOL. But all of their arcs are just so incredible, such low points and able to come back from the absolute depths of darkness and really proving that they learned something. With the base game I felt the similarities but when Future Redeemed came around and the extra it gave N on top of the things we got to see from Ghondor and Matthew towards him, that's straight up Luke Skywalker-esque factor we needed lol, it's all just so great
@@MetaSF_ i also like how the OG Noah is N. like we play as the manifestation of his regrets and seeing them fuse in the end is fucking peak
@@wonder6835 so cool man, now that definitely gave me Roxas returning to Sora vibes, I think I might've said that when I was streaming it too lol
N almost beats out Darth Vader as one of the most compelling tragic villains of all time for me. I'm not even joking, the writing is just that good. I personally relate to N a lot more, though.
Yea they're both pretty fantastic, which is why I especially wanted to stress it because they go hand in hand both in execution and reasons that make them really quality characters
LET'S GOOO
I agree about N and Shania being similar but the problem is that for both of them there simply isn't a good ending either way especially for Shania. Shania unlike everyone else only has one life. She gets one chance and that's it and for all we know she would never be able to make anything out of it due to her position as a political figure and her parents and how the city is. N as well could potentially live a better life someday if he beat mobieus but seeing how many times he failed and potentially how many more times we would've if he even EVER got the chance to beat mobieus then we can assume there really isn't a "right choice". They both had lives of just wrong choices and of course they chose the worse of the 2 choices (Shania keep living your terrible one life or get more chances at life and N turning mobieus or staying in the cycle and constantly having to see Mio die again and again) but the choice that they picked finally gave them control over their own lives. Shania can be free from her mother and the city and be her own person. N doesn't have to continue fighting and will no longer see Mio die constantly. There's no objective right choice since both choices are bad but some hurt more people but these situations were near impossible to decide. It really is tragic and even if they both chose the worse choice it really made then great characters.
It was also a unique scenario proposed by both of them that the game hadn't really shown yet to be considered. For N, somebody willingly becoming Moebius for the sake of keeping what little they have intact (at least that's what he believed it did), and then to oppose what the cast learned in Chapter 5, somebody from that place being in so much suffering in despair that they chose not to be Moebius, but to go into the cycle of rebirth to try and try again to be able to win in life. But being essentially being forced to Moebius by X by not just putting her into the cycle but taking and coercing her with her severe insecurities. I think it makes such stellar antagonists when they can make them very understandable but still provide how wrong they were in it not being the right path, but still much easier said than done. Like that's why I really don't get why there was so much hate for shania when in reality, she's the most comparable to what people go through even in real life, and as much as people talk about insecurities or depression or low self esteem, a parent that abuses you emotionally, and to not understand her and all her ways of lashing out due to those aspects, seems extremely ironic and shallow tbh with how much people spew about those things, kinda disappointing. Not that they justify her actions, but to understand and love N but hate her doesn't make sense
@@MetaSF_ yeah honestly idk why Shania gets so much hate. Honestly I love her as a character but i think it's probably cuz Shania adds insult to injury immediately after the tragedy of Chapter 5/6. Also her motives while equally as selfish as N's come off as more selfish to the player. I think people would like her character more if she got a bit more screen time and if her turning mobieus was part of the base game instead of being Senas side story. I feel like it would've improved the main campaign experience and helped her character. People think liking her is justifying her actions but it simply isn't true. Also great video!
Bro I'm so glad I'm not the only one who made the Anakin connection LOL
yo when I first played I had the idea of it and thought it HAD to be an omage, and then when Future Redeemed came around, oh I became 100% convinced they definitely took inspiration from Anakin lol
Funnily enough, I got Anakin Skywalker vibes from Jin.
considering the archetype, I can see if anybody were to get those vibes from N, Egil, and Jin entirely. N I think is the strongest comparison tho lol
Moebius are like vampires in a way, they have to feed off other life forces to keep themselves alive
And depending the Moebius, you're either ok with that or just coping to till you find a way out. That's why I appreciate the different lens they try to get you to look at Moebius after Chapter 6's intro. They're as vulnerable as they are in control, very vampiric just like you say lol
Did N make the right choice?
I still havent seen that original video LOL
Anyone know the name of the outro song?
It's called 'Unpainted'. From the game 'NEO: The World Ends With You'
@@MetaSF_ Thanks!
N was def inspired by Graf and Jin from Xenogears and Xenoblade 2 tragic hero from the past that became evil because their loved one died and did awful things because of their deaths but also could be from Anakin not gonna lie
Bro the more time that passes, the more I'm convinced he was inspired by Anakin LOL. I mean Z even is basically his Darth Sidious, M his Padme, Ghondor although is his son is like Luke and Obi-Wan, Matthew and Noah are 100% like Luke for him. Of course, he is very similar to Jin and Graf and even Lao Huang from X in some aspects as well so I'm sure there was inspiration taken from them all too