The TRUE Reason Why You Must Pay Church Musicians - In & Out Of Pocket Podcast W/ Tony Taylor Jr.
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 28. 06. 2024
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The In & Out Of Pocket! Podcast Is Here! interviewed by Josh's Drum Class And Special Guest Tony Taylor Jr. Get Ready Y'all!
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The Bible say that the Levites who were the musicians were paid(right along with the other Levites)from the tithes the Israelites paid. Who are church leaders to do different? It is sinful. Paul said "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain" and it is a phrase that appears in the Bible in 1 Timothy 5:18 and Deuteronomy 25:4. The phrase means that it's unfair to prevent an ox from eating grain while it's working because it needs the food to replenish its strength. Why are church musicians treated different? We need financial replenishment. We work hard at our craft and nothing less than excellence is demanded from us. Iâll answerâŠwe are treated different because of greed and guilt based on manipulation which is sin. I literally studied this out so I can go at preachers and evangelists and none of them could tell me Iâm wrong. And if they did Iâd aske themâŠâSoooâŠyouâre saying you know more than God?ââŠand they shut right up.
The fact weâre even talking about this still in 2024 shows there is a problem đ.
I feel you, but time doesnât always equal wisdom and evolution of mindset.
I agree and im guilty of this also⊠for us musicians letâs not treat the church as another gig or a way to fill our pockets . Remember god gets the glory and we playing to lift him up.
If thatâs the case then no one should. Not the pastor youth pastor etc
@@cgDRUMS.I mean, if the people of the church want to bless the pastor with an offering, so be it. Same can be said with the musicians too but I think itâs good to have an actual sustainable job with benefits at the end of the day instead of just being a musician full time. Especially, how are economy is now with prices for consumable goods and services being at an all time high and church gigs or gigs in general donât pay enough to help you pay bills and other expenses.
I agree.
@@Idkitzjushdc I hear you, but we should at least get something. Especially if weâre putting in hours of our time throughout the week to prepare. Iâm not saying Iâm expecting wages to cover all my bills etc, only for the 8 to 10 hours Iâm putting in to prepare
@@cgDRUMS.thatâs valid, mainly if youâre going to someone elseâs church and youâre putting in time and effort to learn their songs and whatnot but if itâs your own itâs different. At least the way I see it.
Amazing conversation.
Please lets us agree and pray for Tony's wife.
In Jesus name Sickle cell be gone now. Me and my family agree with you â€.
Thank you so much!!! đđœđđœ
đđŸ
In the name of Jesus! đđŸ
A topic that requires a lot of emotional intelligence and maturity ! Loved how Tony reflected over this topic.
You are worth every bit bro. Praying for your family Tony. Josh thank you for the content and pray that your channel grows to self sustaining levels above and beyond bro. đđŸ
Bro, the caliber of musicians you are interviewing is incredible. We've heard them recording after recording bring that heat every time. And churches want that experience at their services. Ok then.....
I played for a church for years and never got paid intil my stepdad said i should be getting paid then the pastor was like yea we gonna pay you $20 a Sunday but i also started asking for blessings from the church so i could pay my bills
I m. A musician been through. This. So. Just not in Ga. I see
Spot on! The heart posture indeedđŻđđŸ
I was playing for a church I was a member for for 10 years so when the drummer passed I decided to play and ask them for something they said I volunteered but they paid the other musicians the disrespect but I actually needed help
One thing thats would be nice josh is if you could ask all the drummers how they practice like you did witg calvin then make a playlist for it. Alot of people would want to be inside the mind kf their favorite drummers.
Thanks bro good job.
Thank yâall for highlighting both sides of the conversation
No lies were told in this video. Complete honesty đŻ
I agree with this dude. First staring out my heart was in wrong place and things went south. Ended up being humbled and surrounded myself with level headed musicians. That's when things changed.
Balance and moderation is everything.
Yo, thanks for having an open discussion about this. Keep it coming.
Real talk. Your gift will make room for you. Itâs in the word
I'm dealing with a traumatized pastor now. They literally will not hire an MD who will work and teach etc vs this who just shows up on Sundays (it's chaos). Mind you it's for the same amount as the guy who's always late on Sunday.
As a drummer that's frustrating. Not mention what's being paid to me for said chaos..... most wouldn't do it.
I would love to take lessons from both of you guys when im able to get back on the set fasho
Iâve played drums for my church for the last 14 years. Never took a dime for it and I donât want to.
Because it ain't taking your time.
Do you understand what it means to travel 100s of miles, multiple times a week, spend hours rehearsing. To the point you don't have time for a regular job?
How you gonna pay your bills? Look after your children if you got some?
@@manofculture8666playing for church isnât taking your time ??
@@shonuff718 It depends. Playing Sunday service for about 1 to 2 hours, with 1 rehearsals for about 2 hours, is not the same as playing on multiple days, across the country for gospel conferences and church services.
@@manofculture8666 I definitely agree ⊠itâs not the same ⊠now hereâs the thing of it all ⊠Most churches are not following Christ ⊠That makes a difference ⊠so if the pastor is getting paid , then all bets are off âŠanything goes âŠ
â@@manofculture8666As a musician myself, the points your making are pretty fair.
Really good!!
Most people who say "I never got paid and I don't mind", it's because it ain't taking your time and money.
A lot of musicians only do Sunday service at their local church, and 1 rehearsal a week.
Y'all ain't never had to travel 100s of miles weekly, spend 1000s on gear, so much that it ain't easy to keep a regular 9-5 job. It's not about expectation, we get paid because doing all that free ain't feasible, unless you start asking people to borrow money to suit this new lifestyle, which becomes another problem đ€Šđżââïžđ€Šđżââïž
You guys are on point. I'm glad somebody. Have the. Heart. To. Say whats going. On. People want say nothing about this because is the. church. Yes guys. Thank. You
Man, this is deep. Ive been thinking about my experiences with this very thing amd its depressing sometimes
Tonydfg fans here đ„
I agree with some of these points. The one thing that was said about why Churches may not pay musicians like the world from my generation is because being a drummer 53 years old in my generation: We Had A Day Job. We didnât require the Church to care of us and our family unless we ran into a financial crisis. When COVID happened, I was driving Uber on top of my main job. To the younger generation of drummers and those who went to college, Some Churches are Discreet about paying musicians High Salaries because they have been Prostituted where they went to The Board to plea on your behalf for that salary. Then, the musician(s) leave for another Church because they Trumped the first Church by $300 more. I agree with Tony on the Heart issue. Basically, Workman Worthy Of Their Hire and just like a marriage you can only do your part as long as the spouse do their part in the partnership.
its not about us but Jesus.... my church recognizes me and gives me solos but i don't ask for money
Ayyeeee pause đ đđ
I donât mind getting paid for playing for The Lord, both of these churches are able to do so while Iâm able to take care of things at home, but I donât look at it as a gig. Itâs WORSHIP â€
That intro was a strong argument đ
Alright say we playing for the world (to the ones who say musicians shouldnât be paid in church) and there is no time to go to a free rehearsal for church because youâre busy learning for your actual music job and it so happens that now you have to play on Sundays too so only time you have to worship GOD through your music is when you have some alone time at home, but now your getting paid from your church where you can be fully devoted to the body of Christ is that so Bad? Does he not say your gift will make room for you? Who were the levites and what happened when they left and why?
This sure is a loaded subject. I think if's even deeper than this. But, all of this is true.
I've always felt that no one should be getting paid for being in ministry. The staff and the keyboard player gets paid but the singers and other musicians don't that doesn't make sense. That's why I have a job and God takes care of the rest! Me being a drummer in my church I would never ask for a dime because I play unto the Lord not man!
Honestly a have a concern for some musicians lots of them play on Sunday in church but play to unGodly secular music too!
Being a musician is skilled labor. Musicians love the Lord the same way the ushers do but anyone can be an usher where no just anybody can go up there and play drums, guitar, or keys. Thatâs why you need to pay musicians.
"A lot of musicians dont have a relationship with the pastor"..one of the main issue
I remember those days getting paid 75 to 125 a week. Being a musician at church can't be a full-time job
Yes it can
Awesome đ€Čđ€Č
To all the people saying that all musicians should play for God and not expect anything elseâŠIf you are putting in 5 hours to learn a song, 2 hours to rehearse with the band, 2 hours to teach it to others, buying gear, showing up early to soundcheck and have final rehearsals before services, I feel like it is perfectly acceptable for you to expect to be compensated.
If churches donât want to pay musicians, then they have to be ok with a piano player showing up at service time, having the congregation open the hymnals and do the same old thing every service.
Pastors and Churches canât fairly expect a professional sounding band/Vocalists and new, fresh songs for free. Itâs silly. The fact that this is still an issue is silly.
We put. In the. Time.
I always say they show more love in the world⊠they feed you⊠you get some breaks in between sets, drink tickets, you get paid, you get promoted on their flyers⊠some churches show alot of love but many show absolutely none⊠play and go home lol
If I do a gig for 250 then im really not getting paid 250 due to tax talk about it
Drummers support the church why can't we be supported by the church the organist gets paid why not the drummer
đđđđđ all facts đŻ
Wow weeeee đź....
my church has relationship..and my pastor loves me
Who else is here for @Tonydfg â€đ
What he's referring to is not the norm for a bulk of church musicians. Grasping for straws on some of these examples. I grew up playing for my dad's church, I've played professionally, played in marching band, etc, but I never got paid legit until I was almost 50 years old. I never really even considered getting paid for using a gift that God gave me. The gift is payment to me. Now if I was playing for New Birth, Potters House, Elevation Church, etc, then yeah more than likely they're I'm gonna need to be on the payroll. They're doing multiple services in a week, the exposure is greater. Here's another thing to consider, of you're playing at a church with 10 members then yeah I'm not expecting to be able to quit my day job. So it's all situational. Nobody is forcing you to play. I grew up in a church and churches where I was literally was the ONLY musician. I've been in church where they took up an offering for the organist and didn't give me, the drummer anything. So that's another story where the drummer is not as valued as the other musicians. Especially is Pentecostal churches, they value organists very highly. Bottom line again, if you don't want to play for them, don't.
If churches donât want to pay, then donât request for your musicians to sound like professionals. Also, take musicians out of the church and see how much that church grows.
The laborer is worth the wages.
church here in the philippines, wants everything for free, i do play drums in 3 churches, and the 2$ they give to musicians is never enough
Me personally I do not care about being paid, the most important thing is to live for Christ, I am concerned for some church musicians they play in church on Sunday but they listen and play to unGodly music and artist who hate Christ! Iâm not saying all music is bad but as a Christian we have to live a certain way!
Not to mention churches expect you to use your endorsements to promote the church and letâs be real musicians should be paid because you can hold the musicians accountable but itâs up to you itâs about if they can afford it and if youâre willing to compromise
but we should be appreciated too
Jesus will appreciate what you do if itâs from the heart, if you need the appreciation of men then you might not fully understand what it is you are doing. The problem is not getting paid, itâs the wanting of being payed. Jesus paid for every single one of your sins and faults yet he does not charge you a penny for it. If the LordâŠ.God, the absolute being and creator of everything gave his life for us for free! What right do we have to ask for money or ponder on it for a talent that he ultimately gave us? Give to Cesar what is of Cesar and give on to God what is of God. We should not worry about building treasures here, worry about building treasures in heaven. God appreciates you and I even though he doesnât have to. God donât need us bro, he donât need no pro musicians or scholars or people with doctorates therefore we shouldnât carry ourselves as believing we are Essential to his work because we ainât man. Believe me when I say Iâve had to learn this myself the hard way. God loves you bro, donât ever forget that, if your heart is really on Him, He will supply everything you may need one way or another.
Bro just hit the nail on the head! The very thing that church is supposed to be about is the very thing they lack the most. Relationships are non existent. Even if churches canât pay what you deserve, if the relationship, recognition and appreciation is there, we will go above and beyond. However, many churches underpay and undervalue musicians and on top of that we are treated as the help when next to the Word, worship is the cornerstone.
Truth is u might need to get a job and trust God to multiply
Hey say this they will pay a pastor to come and preach 30 minutes, will give 1,000 dollars to receive what God has because the the prophet said so, but on the same coin, you canât be greedy or make it bout money all the time cause you lose focus shoot in some cases churches will spend 600 for a person to stay at a hotel but will let you stay in a car đ but as a musician you gotta be dependable and also you gotta show your commitment.
Pastors take home millions and living lavish lifestyles but than you stiffle your workers that has responsibilities...when a church is in a position to pay workers than they should....too much ministers live lavish yet they aware of some workers going home hungry
These are not reasons for church musicians to be paid. And for this to be justified so out of line means to say that you are treating churches as a job and not your offering unto God. The doctor is working and getting paid, but when the doctor goes to church, heâs not working. The Pastor could drop down with a heart attack⊠the doctor is not going to leave him there dying because the church have to pay him for using the skill that God blessed him with. You play for an artist, and yet you want to come to church and still take from God instead of blessing him with what He blessed you with??? Then youâre saying God has to pay you for breathing Air then! Foolishness! And I am drummer for my church, I do gigs and have my own business. God blessed me and I was wise in managing my finances. Wisdom! Another blessing from God! It would be unfair as a believer to go into any church and say you must pay me because God hasnât blessed me enough. So I have to come and take from you and your church rather than use that as an opportunity for God to bless me more by pour my musical talent out to Him. Trust me⊠the truth is that musicians demanding churches to pay them arenât spiritual lead. The Bible spoke out rightly to bless the men and women of God that it even went as far as Paul saying if a people received you Not to dust your feet off and go. It never said if a people received not a musician for the musician to dust his or her feet off and go. Yâall getting this thing twisted! The anointing of God on a man or woman to be His, meaning Godâs prophet is not a talent!!!! But singing is a talent! Playing music is a Talent! You think David got paid for playing for Saul???? Imagine David when he was fighting Saul⊠âAh ha! Now I have you Saul! All them Sundays I played to run your demons away and you ainât pay me! I should kill you now!!! đđđđđđ
So preachers shouldnât get paid neither. Since its the lordâs work, and talent given from the lord
@@jephtedurette8227 Preachers are anointed and chosen by God. Thatâs not a talent given by God. Learn to read properly before you comment. If preachers are being paid a salary, then they are false like many we know. But preachers are not to be paid a salary. In the Old Testament when God told Moses to build the Tabernacle, Aaron was the high priest and you know what the Bible said??? Let the people bring their sacrifices and tithes to the priest and for the priest to offer what is to God to Him and for the priest to eat of the rest meaning, what was left back was for the priest. A preacher receiving an love offering is a blessing to them not a Salary. You all want to find all sort of twisted stupid reasons to justify your nonsense and not accept the truth! If you want to be paid then say you want to be paid, but donât come across as if itâs your birth right to be paid because you learnt a skill. So then the cleaners has to be paid, the singers has to be paid, the sound engineer has to be paid, the nurses has to be paid, the ushers has to be paid. And on top of that, you want to be paid for playing the churchâs instruments??? Youâre asking the Pastor to buy you this instrument and that instrument but want to get paid for playing it too??? Come on! Go and tell God to pay you for waking you up the next morning. Steups! Foolishness
@@jephtedurette8227 Men and women of God or âHis Prophetsâ were the only people in the Bible that God authorized the people to bless. Not the musicians, not singers, ushers, cleaners, sound engineers. If preachers are collecting a salary then that means that they are fake as some of the well known fake preachers we know these days. In the Old Testament, God told Moses when he completed the tabernacle, to appoint Aaron as the high priest and God said for the people to bring their sacrifices and tithes and present it to the high priest. The priest is now to sacrifice to God what is His and then for them to eat the balance meaning, that whatever is left back is theirs. No where did the Bible say pay the priest a salary, He said to bless them. Yâall just want to twist stuff to justify your sin. If you want to be paid then say so and let the chips fall. But donât make it seem as though itâs your birth right to be paid just because you developed your talent. What the Bible said about talents??? Go out and make it work for you. If youâre in a band playing then thatâs good. Playing for a singer awesome! But donât take God out your thinking to justify that because you play for a church that they must pay you. Thatâs foolishness and itâs the same nonsense that Jesus spoke about in Matthew- to âRender unto Caesar what is Caesarâs and render unto God what is His!â
@@jephtedurette8227exactly !! No one should be paid âŠ
@@jephtedurette8227Many pastors are bivocational. Some do not take salaries and actually put money in the church. Also, there are churches who have asked their bivocational pastors to pastor full time. So they should be compensated.
Overall, itâs ok for a pastor to take a salary or stipend, but the amount should be what the church can afford. If whatâs afforded isnât enough to cover the pastorâs expenses, then he should get a job.
As for musicians, I do partly agree with the OP. What happened to offering your gift to the glory of God? Many small churches canât afford or struggle to pay musicians. Itâs become a racket now - a money grab - with musicians treating the position like a side hustle or job. Many leave at will for more pay, putting the church in a bind. Iâm sorry, but that shouldnât be.
I donât think churches should take advantage of musicians. But I do long for the days when musicians were actually members of the church they played for and freely offered their gifts unto God. They played because they loved God, loved music and not for a check. Itâs gotten ridiculous now.
it's not top peak anymore đŻđ€Š
The churches don't value they drummers they choose favorites and the pastors don't either I ain't feel like I was part of the church I just play and leave ain't got no recognition only one time this little girl walked up to me told me she liked the way I played the drums that made my day. TONY TAYLOR SAID IT BEST I BEEN THERE.
?????
@user-xc6su5sf4x you must not be a musician
@terry7044 I am a musician, singer, songwriter, producer, keyboardist....have been for the last 35 years. National release and movie.
@terry7044 I get what you're saying...just had to read it 2-3 times to get a full picture. All musicians need to be treated fairly, and paid in my opinion, and definitely respected....glad the lil girl gave you your well deserved props.
It sounds like you all are conflating issues. Are you all talking about being hired as a musician at a church, or being a member and being put on pay roll. These are not the same issues. I am a musician and an Executive Pastor. I see two sides and there are communication failures on both sides.
Ahhhh my fellow musicians ⊠do we not follow Christ ?? Christ himself had an occupation ⊠so who are we ?
Sooo because church ainât paying you go get paid from the devil and try to justify??? How bout you trust God for your increaseâŠ..
The enemy wants to be in the detailsâŠ.now you playing music in the sake of money that stumbles people. For the LOVE of money. Dont mask it fellasâŠ.yes the church should pay but than do u go to the other side???
No one in church should be paid. Not the pastor not the musicians. Everything for the glory of God not the glory of yourself. Talent is a gift that can be taken away. I'm 41 been playing the drums since I was 4. I will only play in church for God. I was offered pay once and was offended by the question. All money collected should go to the church. The guy on the left said the world does it. Yet I remember we are taught be in the world not of it. This whole conversation makes me sick go play for a secular artist if you fell that way. This right here is what's wrong with the church
I played for a church for years and never got paid intil my stepdad said i should be getting paid then the pastor was like yea we gonna pay you $20 a Sunday but i also started asking for blessings from the church so i could pay my bills