I emerged from New Milton Records excitedly clutching a cassette which 20 minutes later was ready to blast across the neighbourhoods’ back gardens. I thought I’d bought Southamptons’answer to The Cropdusters - The Men They Couldn’t Hang. I hadn’t - I’d bought Men Without Hats ….😩
I'm so glad at last to have watched the series. Fairport, Sandy Denny, Steeleye Span , Alex Campbell, Ralph McTell were obviously very fringe to the folk scene and I had always thought they were quite prominent. The commentary (not the artists themselves) is slightly patronizing and Very bizzare. Worth watching despite its many flaws and absences.
Thanks for this. My way into this as a born on the west coast Canadian is through hearing the Carthys, the Watersons, Billy Bragg, the Waterboys as a a young adult. This music still matters to me, as it reminds me that music of my heritage can be punk-folk-relevant and meaningful still in this collapsing capitalist world we’re all caught up in. We keep inspiring each other’s stories. May it go on!
The best English folk singer of the last 30 years is Robb Johnson. I don't know if he got a mention i got a bit bored after Dick Gaughan and Christie Moore had been on.
I find it unfortunate that the series focuses primarily on singers and song, and largely ignores the rich instrumental traditions--and its interpreters--from Ireland and Scotland; not one mention of the Chieftains, Planxty, The Bothy Band, or Silly Wizard, who were pivotal in bringing session and ceilidh tunes to a new generation. Even with regard to singers, I cannot imagine a history of British folk music without any mention of Andy M. Stewart, Scotland's bard second only to Robert Burns.
I've watched all three parts. Very interesting and informative. However, I can't believe there's barely a mention of Ralph MacTell. Also far too much attention paid to Ewan MacColl whose absurd "purist" (fascist) attitude turned many people away from the folk scene.
The makers of this film skipped over about 10 years of the British Celtic folk revival. No Bothy Band, Clannad, Battlefield Band, Tannahill Weavers, Planxty, Jock Tamson Bairns, Silly Wizard, Archie Fisher, Ossian, Mary Black, June Tabor, Dougie Maclean, Dick Gaughan, De Danann, The Clancy Brothers, Boys of the Lough, and more? That seems an idiotic blunder.
The best English folk singer I have heard certainly in the last 30 years is Robb Johnson. I don't know if he got a mention in the rest of the piece I got a bit bored after Dick Gaughan and Christie Moore were on. I know it's about British folk music but music has no nationality. Probably put a Phil Ochs album on now to recover.
Oh dear, this 3 parter is another rehash of the popular myth that folk music is 'the music of the people' and in some way connected with protest and struggle. Well some of it is, but the collection of folk music has been highly mediated by the viewpoints of the collectors, who were predominantly vaguely left-wing middle classers. Have a listen to Ewan McColl's 'Ballad of Stalin' (coincidentally, released in 1956, the same year as the USSR annexed Hungary) if you want an insight into the politicisation of folk music. Among other things, the folk song collectors only set down a subset of the songs sung they heard (omitting, for example, the popular songs of the day, which were in the repertoire of many of the people they collected from) and generally collected from rural singers (ever wondered why there are so few collections of folksongs from London?) And so it remains today. Folk song is overwhelmingly the child of middle class parents, who want it to be worthy. That's a good aim, but it's just one lens, and seems to fall into the trap Martin Carthy suggests - patronising of the singers and the songs, this time by trying to make their songs fit a predetermined purpose. Did you all miss the bit on episode 2 where Joe Boyd said that the folk establishment started to get worried when Dylan (all their birthdays) began to stray from the protest line 'and things were never the same'. Joe is perhaps the most thoughtful commentator of modern folk song, but the influence of the collectors' backgrounds and politics has been discussed by many writers on the issue. Not much at the BBC, I note.
Oh dear! The Ballad of Stalin, the man who led the rapid industrialisation of a backward country the size of the whole of sub-saharan Africa which gave them the power to defeat Hitler's Nazis, something which Western Europe has NEVER forgiven. And Ewan MacColl grew up in a poor working-class home in Salford. Wanker.
It's like there's this big ongoing debate in English folk. Is it folk? Isnt it? I dont think this goes on in the irish trad scene -- i mean you do get very traditional musicians breaking out of the mould and playing with "modern" musicians (e.g. Cormac Begley) where theres a bit of debate, like "what's this crap?!" Lol. But, i think the tradition is so alive in ireland, its no big deal if it gets used or (in someone's opinion) abused.
@@tynebar i do not know what you mean. It's not musicians who make the money. Clive palmer or Robin Williamson in incredible string band (knew them well), never made any money , but laskey, who put their and others concerts on did very well, thank you. It is music BUSINESS. Same in ireland, it is just such a small niche audience here. Irish musicians make money if they must, in America. What these programmes talk about is not traditional folk music, it's a revivalist music based on ideas from USA, where large part of revival is in fact country music. Like Dylan, jack elliot and such. Donovan is great, but folk music it ain't. So it was with 90% folk scene in England in 60s 70s and 80s. I was there.
@@tynebar what you said stands? 🤣🤣🤣 You posted: how many millionaires is there in English folk? Sure, your question stands 🤣🤣🤣🤣and don't quite see what it has to do with anything
Isn't it? I generally don't happen to like it, but why not? Before the advent of recording, the main way music was disseminated was either orally or by piano sheet music. But maybe that wasn't folk music (what ever that might be).
I remember the miners on Henry street Dublin, genuine solidarity from the Irish.
I emerged from New Milton Records excitedly clutching a cassette which 20 minutes later was ready to blast across the neighbourhoods’ back gardens. I thought I’d bought Southamptons’answer to The Cropdusters - The Men They Couldn’t Hang. I hadn’t - I’d bought Men Without Hats ….😩
I'm so glad at last to have watched the series. Fairport, Sandy Denny, Steeleye Span , Alex Campbell, Ralph McTell were obviously very fringe to the folk scene and I had always thought they were quite prominent. The commentary (not the artists themselves) is slightly patronizing and Very bizzare. Worth watching despite its many flaws and absences.
Thanks for this. My way into this as a born on the west coast Canadian is through hearing the Carthys, the Watersons, Billy Bragg, the Waterboys as a a young adult. This music still matters to me, as it reminds me that music of my heritage can be punk-folk-relevant and meaningful still in this collapsing capitalist world we’re all caught up in. We keep inspiring each other’s stories. May it go on!
0:10 0:11 0:16 0:16 0:16 0:21
0:27 0:29
Great to see CHRISTY MOORE
All the variations of folk music today emanate from the foundation work of Bert Lloyd and Ewan MacColl.
The best English folk singer of the last 30 years is Robb Johnson. I don't know if he got a mention i got a bit bored after Dick Gaughan and Christie Moore had been on.
I find it unfortunate that the series focuses primarily on singers and song, and largely ignores the rich instrumental traditions--and its interpreters--from Ireland and Scotland; not one mention of the Chieftains, Planxty, The Bothy Band, or Silly Wizard, who were pivotal in bringing session and ceilidh tunes to a new generation. Even with regard to singers, I cannot imagine a history of British folk music without any mention of Andy M. Stewart, Scotland's bard second only to Robert Burns.
I've watched all three parts. Very interesting and informative. However, I can't believe there's barely a mention of Ralph MacTell. Also far too much attention paid to Ewan MacColl whose absurd "purist" (fascist) attitude turned many people away from the folk scene.
The makers of this film skipped over about 10 years of the British Celtic folk revival. No Bothy Band, Clannad, Battlefield Band, Tannahill Weavers, Planxty, Jock Tamson Bairns, Silly Wizard, Archie Fisher, Ossian, Mary Black, June Tabor, Dougie Maclean, Dick Gaughan, De Danann, The Clancy Brothers, Boys of the Lough, and more? That seems an idiotic blunder.
The best English folk singer I have heard certainly in the last 30 years is Robb Johnson. I don't know if he got a mention in the rest of the piece I got a bit bored after Dick Gaughan and Christie Moore were on. I know it's about British folk music but music has no nationality. Probably put a Phil Ochs album on now to recover.
What does Billy Bragg mean when he says English music is beardy???
He means it was dominated by crusty beardy white blokes - which it probably was but now certainly isn't 🤣
36:43 he does say "sometimes" -- he means the folk clichee (or maybe I should say "style") of bearded men in homespun clothes
weirdy beardies
Some of the men are worse .
He didn't say beardy he said beerdy.
Very good but a little bit English dominated.
22:30
I take first prize cos I spotted Terry Pratchett and you didn't.
Oh dear, this 3 parter is another rehash of the popular myth that folk music is 'the music of the people' and in some way connected with protest and struggle. Well some of it is, but the collection of folk music has been highly mediated by the viewpoints of the collectors, who were predominantly vaguely left-wing middle classers. Have a listen to Ewan McColl's 'Ballad of Stalin' (coincidentally, released in 1956, the same year as the USSR annexed Hungary) if you want an insight into the politicisation of folk music. Among other things, the folk song collectors only set down a subset of the songs sung they heard (omitting, for example, the popular songs of the day, which were in the repertoire of many of the people they collected from) and generally collected from rural singers (ever wondered why there are so few collections of folksongs from London?) And so it remains today. Folk song is overwhelmingly the child of middle class parents, who want it to be worthy. That's a good aim, but it's just one lens, and seems to fall into the trap Martin Carthy suggests - patronising of the singers and the songs, this time by trying to make their songs fit a predetermined purpose. Did you all miss the bit on episode 2 where Joe Boyd said that the folk establishment started to get worried when Dylan (all their birthdays) began to stray from the protest line 'and things were never the same'. Joe is perhaps the most thoughtful commentator of modern folk song, but the influence of the collectors' backgrounds and politics has been discussed by many writers on the issue. Not much at the BBC, I note.
Oh dear! The Ballad of Stalin, the man who led the rapid industrialisation of a backward country the size of the whole of sub-saharan Africa which gave them the power to defeat Hitler's Nazis, something which Western Europe has NEVER forgiven. And Ewan MacColl grew up in a poor working-class home in Salford. Wanker.
It's like there's this big ongoing debate in English folk. Is it folk? Isnt it? I dont think this goes on in the irish trad scene -- i mean you do get very traditional musicians breaking out of the mould and playing with "modern" musicians (e.g. Cormac Begley) where theres a bit of debate, like "what's this crap?!" Lol. But, i think the tradition is so alive in ireland, its no big deal if it gets used or (in someone's opinion) abused.
In england it is all about money. Ireland is different. No end of virtuoso musicians in pubs with no desire to make money out of it
@@aranos6269 How many millionaires is there in English folk????
@@tynebar i do not know what you mean. It's not musicians who make the money. Clive palmer or Robin Williamson in incredible string band (knew them well), never made any money , but laskey, who put their and others concerts on did very well, thank you. It is music BUSINESS. Same in ireland, it is just such a small niche audience here. Irish musicians make money if they must, in America. What these programmes talk about is not traditional folk music, it's a revivalist music based on ideas from USA, where large part of revival is in fact country music. Like Dylan, jack elliot and such. Donovan is great, but folk music it ain't. So it was with 90% folk scene in England in 60s 70s and 80s. I was there.
@@aranos6269 You're just contradicting yourself, what I said stands.
@@tynebar what you said stands? 🤣🤣🤣 You posted: how many millionaires is there in English folk? Sure, your question stands 🤣🤣🤣🤣and don't quite see what it has to do with anything
As soon as you see Billy Bragg you know it's a crap documentary. And it was.
What is it about folk music in the British Isles that they feel it’s ok to use a bloody piano??
Isn't it? I generally don't happen to like it, but why not? Before the advent of recording, the main way music was disseminated was either orally or by piano sheet music. But maybe that wasn't folk music (what ever that might be).
What is it about folk music in the British Isles that they feel it's ok to use a bloody guitar?
Same thing
whish she could die again and again,again,agin and again what a CLINT
A clint? ....interesting insult.
I hate to wish ill on anyone. But in some cases, an exception must be made...