Cost to clear land
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
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This is a description of what it cost to clear a portion of my land. It is intended to be a little insight into what the clearing costs could be but by no means an end all tell all to what you may have to pay.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I didn't have to sit through your kids singing songs in a truck, watch you cook a steak, and 20 minutes of useless information. Strait to the point, informative, and down right perfect video. Thank you!!
Your welcome. I try to make useful videos. I don’t always hit my mark but I try.
A lot of people don’t say how much stuff like this cost them. Thank you for sharing the cost of this type of work on your land. Others I know will be a little different in cost. But it gives a good idea of what you are up against.
You are so welcome!
The last few points about pricing were spot on. Price per day or hour. Be out there to give oversight. People respect what you inspect so be watchful. Thank you.
Thanks. It’s very important to be present when the works being done.
That was extremely helpful. I've got 13 acres of nothing but trees and don't know where to start but this was great advice!!
Thank you.
I’m glad I could help. You got to start somewhere. I would start by taking a good look at where you want your house and the drainage from there. Then work out how utilities would come under. Before I started clearing anything I made sure power and water could be done at that spot. Best of luck and best wishes. 🌹
I never tend to comment but this was very helpful thank you
Thank you. I hope it helps you in your endeavors to develop your land.
This has to be the most interesting video on youtube. He has my attention the whole video. Very good at explaining things. In great detail. Yeah I subbed.
This is VERY helpful to me. I'm currently trying to build my first home and this video is exactly what I needed. Thanks alot.
Very glad I can help. I hope it helps you get a good start. Watch my video on discouragement. It can sneak up on you. Best wishes.
Thanks for the video. Makes me realize I'm getting a pretty good deal. I have a friend sending a John Deere 200 excavator and an operator for two full days of land clearing (around 70 trees) and the total cost is gonna be $1,400.
Were are you located?
That is awesome!
Jesus, so cheap. Were are you getting that done. I am near Tallahassee FL and these people want 1.7k per acre mulching,no trees included.
Please make many more videos. You spoke on all my questions. Thank you!
Lorraine thanks. I’ll try to keep them coming.
Great video , I appreciate all the specific details. I’m relieved to know that the cost of clearing is not real expensive. Thank you for sharing your expertise with us🙂
Now that was some helpful information, it’s hard to find a straight shooter on CZcams to give you the costs and some tips with out all of the extra crap. Thank you
Look for my other video on hiring a local operator. You can actually get it for $720 a day and no delivery charge here local for the dozer. I have recently got a smaller excavator of about 15K lbs for $800 a day and no delivery charge. Its not as fast as the bigger one so its hard to say if that would be better but I did save on the delivery for sure. Best wishes.
I am certainly now curious what this would cost in 2021.
Thank you for putting this together. This is super helpful.
I would think if you look for some one in your area like a local guy who's doing the work on the side you might find it even cheaper or at least the same. I know inflation is hitting hard right now but usually the type of people doing this work aren't out to make a killing. They are just good ole boys trying to make some extra cash. Best wishes.
Good video.. was discussing clearing land for friends camp..now it's realistic
Thanks so much for this! Straight to the point. I'm looking to purchase a few acres to build a homestead in Indiana. Some of the plots I've seen are wooded. This helped a lot! It's great to have an idea of what the costs might be from someone who's done it. I now have a good idea of what to set aside for the work. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain this!
Its a starting point. And lately inflation may have changed things in your area but around here this type of work has gone up marginally.
Thanks for the video. We are thinking of buying land and building since we can't find the "perfect" home. This is informative and honest answers on pricing.
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent information and video. Even had a split screen with visual aids! Plus you achieved great prices for the services - fair to you and the contractor which is always a win!
Glad you enjoyed it! Don't forget to like and subscribe if you haven't already.
That is a pretty decent price!! I'd say bigger trees would've been a little more but very reasonable.
I rented a 650 John Deere dozer for a week and ran it myself. I probably took down somewhere around 500 trees of various sizes. It was $2500 per week including delivery from Perfered Rental. I even took out some stumps from trees I previously cut down.
James I really wish I had enough faith in my ability to operate one to have done this myself as well. Sounds like it was fun too. Good job. 👍
Great summary, especially highlighting the delivery charge and charge for different equipment. I ended up buying my excavator, but that's because my land is so steep, the quote I got from the pros was over 500,000 dollars (!). I know, right?!
Can I ask how it is going? My backyard is very steep and I can’t find anyone willing to clear it. What type of machine do you use?
Gregoryia Willocks, not sure if this comment was directed at me or not, but I’ll bite. Steep land will scare off many contractors, or result in very (!) large quotes. If you can’t get up there and do it yourself, you’re at their mercy. You may want to try creating smaller jobs that don’t look so onerous, such as asking someone to just take down three trees, for example. It’ll cost you more, but you can spread it out over time. Also, with this method, you can test 1 or 2 or 3 different contractors and find the right one. On my steep land, I used a chainsaw to fell the trees, then an excavator to help me pull and drag and move the logs around. The excavator is vital for getting to the stumps!
Thanks! This is good info and I second the excavator. Its an amazing piece of equipment.
My family does land clearing for a living. Different companies charge differently. Some companies do hourly for each machine, and others do based off of land brush. The more brush and the bigger the trees are there’s an up charge, along with how the land lays with grade.
Clearing with an excavator is quite possibly the most satisfying thing ever. You are one lucky guy. Except when shit breaks. Then life is all suck and no blow. LMAO
All true. Each job is different.
Thank you for this.I'm down the road in Leon Co. and I have a really small area I'd like cleared for a road and cabin.Very informative video.
Thanks. Take your time and do it just as you dreamed. Plan, prep, then do. Best wishes.
Best video on the net on costs etc. Thanks!
Thank you. Hope it helps in your planning.
I had a 90hp dozer delivered for $200 and picked up for $200 from united rentals. The dozer was like $1875 for a week.
That would be a good deal for someone who knows how to run a dozer. I am no equipment operator and I have sole soupy places I know I would bury it with my novice skills. But that sounds good. I just found a new operator with no delivery fee at $720 a day. That’s how I’m going now.
Thanks for the insight man this really helped me make a decision on my acres i want cleared
Glad I can help. Just plan also that after the initial clearing there will still be plenty to do. Good luck and best wishes. 👍
Thank you for your helpful information. You’re awesome buddy .I buy land you will be the one clear the land for me thanks.
Well I don’t clear land for a living. But look at my last video. I have a guy that actually does it a little cheaper if your close to Trinity, TX. But it’s cheaper and gives you a good starting point. Best wishes on your land development.
Twisted Pine My bad I didn’t see the video but I will .But thank you for the helpful information you put up .
$5k total for about an acre cleared with Dozer & Trackhoe
There's a lot more info in there you missed. Make sure to explain about being there and avoiding the costs of repairs and delivery costs and such. many will miss out on that.
Excellent video, thanks for being concise and informative.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for sharing this info. Very much appreciated 🙏
Your welcome and I hope it helps you in improving your place or future place. 👍
Dam the delivery is expensive... Great vid
Thanks. Hope it helped with your future plans.
Yeah, around here most folks will bring out their own equipment as long as you pay for a whole day.
Sometimes people will charge for their shop to the pickup point & then on to your location. Time is money
This is great info. Thanks for the video but more so for answering all of the question people had. Very helpful.
Thank you. I try to be helpful as I can. Best wishes.
Love the video. Very informative. Appreciate it.
Thanks. I’m always happy to help and hope any info I share can help some one in some way. 😊
I had same type of equipment assist me on clearing about 5 years ago. I was in a D6C and contractors were using a newer cat D5 and a 70,000 pound excavator. About 4 acres and 4000' of ROW from 75 to 100 feet wide.Took several weeks. Check to them was $18,000.00.Clearing I do now is with my JD 450G, JD 350B crawler loader,and a JD 310 TLB. Slower than a 70,000 pound excavator but cheaper.Usually do the clearing in the cooler months: think a little,clear a little.All about value enhancement and what is pleasing to wife and me.
Taking your time can make all the difference. Good points you make here. Especially about pleasing the wife. If she isn't happy, aint nobody gonna be happy.
How do you like the 450G? Just bought one to clear some pasture on our farm. Now I just need time in the seat to learn to use it.
@@dutch1999 Yes. Nice size and can be moved around with a 1 ton truck and 20,000# gross trailer. Root rake is handy. USA attachments for that.
The dozer can knock down 30" butt pine tree btw.Just have to go around and cut the surface roots first.Make sure to use the decelerator pedal on the right of the floor board when going between gears or from forward to reverse.Saves transmission damage.You'll figure it out. Not that hard really.
Really useful-thanks for putting this up!
Glad it was helpful!
Thats a hell of a lot better than the land clearing company's here in south Fl. my friend needed a 1/4 acre lot cleared and he paid 25K. There was fill dirt brought in but that was only 5 trucks for the house pad. I thought that was Highway robbery but I dont know all the facts.
Seems high to me as well, but its FL so....🤔
Thanks for putting this out there, I am looking at purchasing 23 acres in Tyler county TX it is a 50/50 mix of open prairie and woods. Looking at similar project so this gives me a good base line to work with.
Your welcome. I hope it’s helps. Best wishes and keep us posted on your place. 👍
Did you make the purchase
@@thewarrior8380 Yes sir, I actually purchased a larger tract next door, 26 acres.
@@davidvelen9835 wow! That's a lot of land. God bless you
@@davidvelen9835 How did it go. I just bought a 27 acres "forest" full of trees here in Upstate NY. What did you do to clear yours up?
Appreciate your video. You keep it real, and gave some good video. Looking forward to more videos from your home project keep em coming #subscribed
Wontshutup thanks. I’m trying to improve my videos and editing. Hopefully getting better as I go along.
fascinating, and very helpful. thank you!
Thank you and I hope you find it useful information. God bless.
Thanks for the video! Got a half acre and been trying to get a rough idea if costs.
brent butler thanks. I hope it helps unlock some of the mystery’s of land development for some one.
Thanks a lot! Each one teach one!!!
You are welcome! Don't forget to like and subscribe if you haven't already.
Thanks. Good info
We appreciate the information my friend.
Thanks Reno. Look for my latest video about the dozer coming out again. I posted you can get it cheaper. Glad I can help in any way.
@@PawPaws_Place My wife and I are in Maryland and we want to clear 4 acres of land for the house and the farm, however, it doesn't seem to be going so well. Any tips???
@@renostubbs8504 I would look locally for a guy who runs a dozer on the side. Will be cheaper and good for rough in clearing.
@@PawPaws_Place I appreciate your advice my friend. GOD BLESS
This was VERY helpful.
Glad to help.
Here in Nova Scotia, Canada the guy my friend got charged by the foot for roads, a few years ago it was 10.00 a foot, you have to take the trees down, they will remove the stumpage, any extra filling, swampy area's is extra and like you said delivery is additional cost. My friend had 900' and it cost him 10,000 dollars. and I think he still needed to pay for gravel, not sure!
Wow! That is a little pricey but I guess I don't really know for your area. I hope he got it at a fair price for where he is.
I have some contractors coming tomorrow to give me the prices...I wish you could be a fly in the wall...I’ll keep you posted!!!
Don’t take the first estimate. Get at least three estimates and get references. Then go with the one you feel most comfortable with. Listen to your gut. Money is important but if it’s not a huge difference then gut feelings are not to be ignored.
Twisted Pine thank you so much will do!!!... they will be here at 10:30 this morning...will come back to let you know what there estimates are😅
Well done! Very helpful
Thank you. I hope it helps you very much.
VERY helpful ! ! ! Thank u !
You're welcome!
Great information.. Enjoyed the video
Glad you enjoyed it! Don't forget to like and subscribe if you haven't already.
Thanks for sharing!
This pricing is way outdated and no one could stay in business charging that little anymore. You also have to consider how skilled and efficient the operator or company is that you hired.
This was a few years ago. My dozer operator now charges $1000 a day and I charge $800 a day to run my excavator. So a little higher.
Thank you for sharing
Hope it helps decision making.
hello i used to do land clearing in DRC and Cameroon for 2500usd per hectare with ripping the routs i had D6R D8R and E330
I have to study up on a hectare and its size. 😊
Ask Andrew Camarata ,, best value for any Earthworks or Clearing on CZcams
I'll check it out! I love his videos, but I don't think he will come to TX to do any work for me. Its a bit of a drive for him I think. 🤣 But I'm soon to retire and I would love to make it by his place and see the castle in person one day. I think he is hard working studious young man who has pulled himself up from the start to where he is at and I love that about him.
Another question. Did the dozer and tractor make the road? Or was the road already there? I apologize for being rather ignorant on the subject. In other words, do I have to have a road first? (Cause these pieces of equipment sure are powerful and it seems to me they could do quite a lot even without a road.) If you could clarify, that would help even more. Thanks again!
They can make their own road no problem. It’s good to go on google earth and really research your property and all the elevations and where everything will be located. You can even draw where you would like the buildings and roads to be and research drainage and runoff.
Thanks you that is a great video 👍👍
Thank you too
Man this is great!!!!....thank you so much!
Your greatly welcome. Hope I helped to get you started in some way.
Thanks for this video it was just what I wanted to know
Thanks. This helped a lot.
I’m glad anytime I can help another out. Best of luck on your endeavor. 👍
It’s rare that anyone needs equipment that large to clear land unless they’re building a shopping mall. Maybe you did. I did a lot with chainsaws a bobcat and a forestry mulcher and didn’t spend a lot.
I cleared a little with a chainsaw in the beginning. That was going to be entirely too hard on my body and take too long. Also I needed all the stumps and root balls up where I am clearing. Cutting down and then having a mulcher come through works if you don’t plan to build or grow anything. That wouldn’t work in this area for me. But in other parts of the property I have had a mulcher out a few days.
Oh and I have decided I would do just the dozer if I had it all to do again. I believe I could have gotten it done that way and saved a couple grand.
Thank u 4 this very help video. Hope u and ur family r living ur dream peacefully and abundantly.
Same to you!
Thanks man
You're welcome!
Hello… thanks for the video! Would you recommend the excavation cost be paid out of pocket or included within the construction loan?
It depends on your preference and finances. I have paid for the equipment on a daily basis and that allowed me to fine tune it as I went. I also did my own cutting and burning and sold some to the sawmill. I also would like to pay cash for as much as I can as I go to keep the final mortgage if any as low as possible. Of course all of that is your decision based off your ultimate goals and finances and ability taking into account the time frame you have to work in.
Thanks bro
Hope it helps you along.
Thank you for sharing your video im looking forward to using your advice .
I hope it helps making some decisions in your endeavors. Best wishes.
Great Content...Thanks for sharing
Always want to help.
Awesome video man
Nice video. Too bad you couldn't have sold some of that wood for pulp or lumber. Where was this work done?
I might have found some one to buy it up. So may not be a total loss. Lets hope.
I would like to purchase a lot in Florida but it has several large oak trees on it. I would like to have the trees removed. I understand that this may be a problem since oak trees are protected and have more rights than property owners. Do contractors have the right to clear the trees or do they have the same issues and have to try and get permits?
Good question. It is not illegal to cut down Oak trees in FL but could be in your city. You should check with your local municipality. Some have rules on the tree size and if they meet a certain size limit may need a permit to cut down. If they are small enough you may not need anything. If they are a certain age and size they may be protected. But they will be able to tell you the rules and probably have it online for you to read through.
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for the video
What did you do with the piles? Getting those picked up and hauled away had to cost a bit also.
The large wood I cut 16’6” and took to the sawmill. They paid me $35 a ton. I could take 5 tons a load on my small trailer. I took about 6 loads in total. The tops and root balls and limbs I bucked I piled up and burned. It’s a lot of work but I made as much use of the downed timber as I could. Made a little money and left me less to burn. 👍
Thanks for the reply, I hope I didn’t come across as concern for the wood and implying you were wasteful. It’s your land and property in my humble opinion you can do whatever you want to it and no one should say otherwise
My part time side work is landscaping and getting rid of piles was always a concern and obviously your piles had to be HUGE so I was just curious. Bc I hope to one day own land of my own but not looking good so far bc of the CCP and Bill Gates basically buying up us blue colored guys out of the market.
Thanks again for taking time to respond to my simple question.
Bonfire.
I guess there is another charge to haul the equipment away after the job?
No Sir. The next person to get the equipment pays for his delivery charge which is from your property to his. Unless you can’t wait for it to be moved to the next job you only pay for your delivery. 👍
@@PawPaws_Place I have keys for case, cat, deere and a couple of other things. So, sure, it could "sit" at my place until the next job, I won't mind at all. Lol
Great price! I’m in Nashville and you couldn’t get that property cleared for under 10 grand.
I think looking for local guys doing it on the side is where you save money. Also building those relationships help later down the road when you decide to do something more.
INFO IS MONEY...THX
Nice thoughts on land clearing land cost
Thanks. I hope to help anybody I can.
Great stuff u mentioned
I have a question what do u do with all the trees on that ground do u mulch them or burned them please thank u
I have burned a lot. Some was mulched. I have recently found some one to take some of it if I cut the root ball off and the tops out. That will save me a lot of time.
So am I correct that this was a clearing for the driveway that did not include grading for ditch and substrate type material/gravel? Thanks, good job on the video...
Correct. This is just the initial clearing of the driveway, the homesite, right of way for power line, and road to shop from house. I will do a video for the grading and gravel for the driveway when I have that done. For the time being we have been using the road as a simple dirt road. We have a top layer of sandy loam soil on the property so the dirt road has held up pretty good.
You had Pine and Oak. Did you sell any of the wood to make back on your investment?
Some but not a lot. It wasn’t much because I only cleared a few acres. But I did find a local saw mill and have recently started cutting some of the oak into mantle pieces and will take the next load of pine to see if it will warrant the effort.
@@PawPaws_Place Thank you. This is very helpful!
Thank you
Very informative! What area are you in? Am wondering if the company you used is near south Mississippi?
Sorry, this company is out of Texas. But I’m sure there are plenty of local people that you can hire. Check the boards at your local tractor supply or ask around at the feed store. Best wishes.
@@PawPaws_Place thank you! I will do some research....thanks for the inspiration!!
does the brush and down trees just stay on your property? How do you get rid of the brush if there is an excess (more than large bonfire)?
When the excavator is done it should leave everything in small piles to burn. If you have some down in the woods or on the side that it didn’t get piled up you would use the chainsaw to cut it into small enough sizes to move with the tractor or bu atv. In my other videos you can see me moving some with my grapple on my tractor.
Might I ask where Twisted Pine is and the Contractors name, I have all most the same work scope I need to do
Twisted Pine is in Trinity, TX. If you are close by and need the contact info let me know.
$6300 I might buy a used excavator then resell it when done.
Thank you for this video, very helpful & just what we needed to hear. We have property in Oklahoma near Lake Eufala and want clear about 2 -3 acres. Lots of rocks and declining property elevation. We’ve been quoted 25K plus, which seems crazy to us. How do we find operator with price per day? We are not from area so any suggestions how to find resources? Thank you!
Glad it helps. Don’t use my pricing as a hard price. It can fluctuate some especially from state to state. But I would look for peg boards at local tractor supply’s and feed stores. Also on Craig’s list in services. FB marketplace too. Get a couple prices per day from a few people and then ask for pics of work done. And remember it’s not a race. It’s a journey and you should take time to enjoy it and make memories. Best wishes.
is a trackhoe something like an escavator?
Yes it is. I actually call them excavators but the guy who brought it out called it a trackhoe. But I think one and the same. 👍
Thanks for the great info. Did you sign a contract with a completion date? Were you concerned about the contractor being insured in case of accident? Out in Texas rural areas (north of Trinity) there aren't many contractors to choose from.
I paid him at the end. I didn’t ask if he was insured and I didn’t sign any contract. I told him what day to show up and I was there every day they worked.
John Deere should have stuck with mowers and farm tractors, Caterpillar is the boss of dozers and excavators period. The best tool you can clear land with on the cheap is a Bob-Cat or other skid steer and a forestry attachment.
I think there are different tools for different jobs. A medium sized dozer with rippers does great to push up small to medium sized trees roots and all in a situation where you need the roots and such gone. Like where you would put a road or home foundation. For larger trees the excavator can rip up the trees root ball and all. Then where you need it cleared but aren’t really concerned with roots or stumps left behind a skid steer with a mulching head is great and works fast. As for the brand. I think thats mostly personal preference. I like my JD tractor. But if I was to get a dozer I think I would also get a CAT. But if I got a skid steer for mulching I would probably get a TeRex. CAT would be next on my list. Price and warranty would probably decide between the two for me. Best wishes.
May i ask if your property was hilly or flat? I'm looking to get this done, but the land is hilly.
@@mommalou1971 same!
You paid to clear public streets and easements ? The city (in central Florida) has a street that abandoned and not cleared that gives me a shortcut to my lot (1/4 mile vs 3 miles). Most of the overgrown street is drivable but there are a few spots where some small trees are in the way. Thinking of just renting a bobcat and chain saw and clearing it myself and not asking for permission, only do it quick and plead ignorant about it.
NoSunBeach it isn’t public. It’s all my own land. The easement is over a 1/4 mile. The power company won’t come in and put the power lines in until they have 30’ wide cleared easement for their trucks and the line. I have a half mile of road frontage that my driveway comes off of. The drive way is a little over a 1/4 mile and I had to clear all of that. But as to the road you could get better access to on your land, is it county land and road or a private road?
@@PawPaws_Place Do you pay the power company to put in the pole and run the electric to your home site?
This is great. Have you thought about how much it would have cost for your own time and labor to do it yourself?
As in how? With chainsaws and such?
450 just to bring a dozer, that seems high
It’s actually is. I found a local dozer operator that did a great job and didn’t charge me a penny to bring his dozer. I mentioned this in another video with that operator out there. So look around and try to hire local and you will probably find somebody to do the same.
Curious about the trees - did you sell them or the contractor sell them -
I did not sell the pine. The Oak I kept and I’m using for fire wood or making furniture out of. I asked around to local loggers and they said it wasn’t enough to cut for pulp and it wasn’t old enough for saw cut timber so it wasn’t cost affective to come cut and that was me giving the wood for free with no expectation of payment. It did make me sad.
Well I have to walk this back. I found some one who wants to take the pine I have down. The pulp prices have gotten better I guess so he’s willing to come get it if I stack it and make it accessible. Not sure what I will be getting but probably not much. But if he just takes it and all I have to do is burn the tops and root balls that’s saves me a lot of work and who knows, maybe I’ll make a few bucks too.
Thanks for the info, I always wondered what the cost would be.
Glad to help
How long will you estimate to clear a land of about 150ft wide and 850ft long? how many hours?
That’s just under 3 acres. The answer is hard to give not knowing the make up of the land. It’s really dependent on the type of trees you have and the terrain involved. If it’s just a lot of trash trees with some pine or oak splattered here and there I would say a couple days. But if its tight three stands (acres) of really big pine and oak then many more days. Look at my last dozer video. It shows how I got the dozer cheaper by hiring local. I only paid him $720 a day with no delivery fee. Your best bet would be to look locally and have a operator come and tell you how many days he estimates it would take. I hope that helps and isn’t clear as mud. Best wishes. 😊
Did you consider mulching? If so what made you go the route you took? Thanks!
I did some mulching. I first had a dozer and excavator come out to clear where the road and rite of ways would be. I did that because I did not want any roots or stumps in those areas. Then I had a mulched come clean everything else up.
That makes sense. Thanks!
good info
Are the rates you quote particular to your area or pretty typical nationally?
I would think that there would be some difference depending on what part of the country you live in. But that said I would think it wouldn’t be too drastic of a difference. But I can’t say for certain.
Thank you!!!
Your welcome. Hope it helped.
Are there grants to cover cost of clearing land of an acre
I have not heard of this but it might be worth looking into. Would also probably depend on what type of wood you have and it’s value. But if it’s just an acre you may find it cheap to get a hydro axe out to clear it. Or a dozer for one day. Just make sure they leave it in a pile allowing you to burn it safely.
Who and what person do you call for this. Im on ky lake area in buchanan TN.
Thanks,what if you have poison oak in the mix?
I would spray with a herbicide to kill it all before starting clearing.
#65 here new outdoor and travel channel here let's grow. I just bought first chunk of property hunting and rec. Good info on clearing
I have been following you guys. Good info and always entertaining. Keep up the good work!
Can a person rent these equipment and do it themselves?
You can rent them both. I looked into that. But I think for what I would have paid to be able to do the work myself and with the learning curve to operate the equipment I came out better paying for the equipment with an operator. Also when you rent the equipment you are paying for delivery fees both ways. When you hire it out you are only paying one way.
Good way to destroy a lowboy trailer unloading equipment like that
I guess so. I would hope the truck driver knew what he was doing but I’m no truck driver so I wouldn’t know. How would it normally be done?