Practice your special moves one by one, all your links, and combos 10 times each if you mess up restart. It helps if your not used to it. I've been playing for years so alot of experienced players will tell you both the same
@@arrownoir basically a super tight combo that you cannot mash to get it. You have to press the button you'te trying to combo in exactly the right frame, and it is insanely hard. So if you have 3 frames of hitstun available you can combo a 3 frame normal. That in theory is a one frame link, however sf5 fixed this by making every one frame link have the difficulty of a two frame link through some game developing shenanigans basically, but is a HUGE noticeable difference. A two frame link is just a little tight and you can consistently get it down to muscle memory in a couple of attempts. Or you can just mash to get it. A (real) one frame link won't connect through mashing, and it is impossible to do it consistently without some little game techniques that gift you extra frames (look into plinking).
@@arrownoir lol it explains itself, basically you have 60 seconds in 1 minute and 60 frames in 1 second, so to get a combo link you need to press your button at the exact frame for example the third frame and if u press at second or fourth frame your combo wont link
There's some wrong info here. Nakayama was always SFV's director, he just didn't get any exposure while Ono was the face of Street Fighter. However, Nakayama's job has stayed the same through V and also as is in VI. Matsumoto I'm pretty sure was a producer under Ono for most if not all of SFV. Nobody noticed these guys in the credits because nobody reads the credits, lol. These guys finally got to show their faces when Ono left.
The timing of things happening is a little interesting. I think Ono still had a lot of executive control during that period, simply because things started to pick up when he left. Maybe someone with more inside Capcom knowledge could correct me.
I always find it so impressive when a player converts a counter-hit light attack into a link to medium or heavy and combo from there. There's such a tiny amount of time to react and they pull it off
the only game I play where this kind of combo is a thing is alpha 3, and when I do combos like that I generally don't confirm the attack that goes after the counter hit (so if I'm going to do LP > MP, I do MP regardless of counter hit and only cancel it if I see that LP counter hit) EDIT: you can also see the startup of the opponent's attack sometimes, which gives extra time to react to the fact that a counter hit will happen
Not sure if you're aware, but when players convert from counterhit lights into mediums/heavies, they commit to the followup button regardless an then cancel it into a special or link another button after it. Example: - light, medium (no counterhit, don't cancel medium into something unsafe on block) - counterhit light, medium (sees the counterhit of the light, wil cancel the medium) Often the game allows you to do: - light, medium, medium xx special Gives you even more time to react In short, people don't react to the counterhit light and then decide to do a followup action, they do they followup action regardless.
usually stuff like this is premeditated, for example you cannot do jab into cr MK with Ken unless it is on counter hit, so most players will click the buttons first (cr LP > cr MK) and then they will react if it hits or not with the cancel. So on block the cancel will be hadoken, but on hit it would be shoryuken/ex tatsu
Nakayama was always the director of SFV. AFAIK Ono was basically the "studio head" of Capcom's fighting game division, he's an exec. He also made himself a major face in the PR for the game but he's not a game designer. Sure, he deserves a lot of blame for SFV launch but these later gameplay changes should be attributed to the devs getting better not Ono's departure. We don't know how much the dev team has changed if much at all. IMO the game steadily improved and that's including thru the time Ono was still in charge
Ono was more than an exec and suit, and shares a large part of the blame for SFVs early gameplay woes on top of its launch He served as the games primary producer and was largely responsible for the games direction into E-sports and SF2 fundamentals in the same way he is also responsible for SF4 being SF2 pt 2 If anything, SFV is a case study in how a misfit producer can hamstring all facets of a projects development, especially in JP game dev where they often serve as co-directors on projects ( often "directing" games more than the credited directors )
Juri is another example of this. Easy combos to perform, but with the store mechanic and juggle/fireball options in the corner gave her a lot of options to consider. Most Juris can perform a max damage combo when Juri has full stores but watching JAK or the other specialists play her you really see their mastery shine when they convert hits without the full set stocked up.
Honestly once you get to know the character you learn how kinda limited her kit is. No (non-store) special cancels in V-Trigger 1, most of her non-stock combos are just button -> special, everything but medium store and light store are combo enders, not extenders... Not trying to be critical of the character, I've mained her for a long time, but a lot of people seem to think there's this ocean of sauce for the character because of the store mechanic. Don't get me wrong, there *is* sauce for this character, and some obscure and execution-heavy combos to boot (Link standing medium punch into standing medium punch with a 1 frame micro walk on crouching targets, or standing on counter-hit and a longer walk) but I wouldn't put her in the top 5 most complex characters in SF5... but then again I'm biased by having probably over 60 hours in the lab with her.
@@kevingriffith6011 I hated what Capcom did to Juri with SFV. It felt like she was balanced around having her stores, without any real concern for what she might have to give up or risk to get them. That Capcom just assumed the high level Juri players would always have stores...
@@BainesMkII Honestly my only wish is that they made it a little easier for her to get stores outside of neutral. Right now she's good, doesn't need a buff, but back when she was near the bottom she really needed more ways to get stock than throwing away a whole combo for button+store, giving up her frame advantage in a blockstring or landing her target combo.
After Ono's departure from SFV, not only did the new characters come with a lot of sauce, but some older characters got some spicy stuff as well Akuma's VS2 and VT2 got reworked from the ground up and they added a lot of combo possibilities, they freaking made his VT2 cancel all his moves into any special and his VS2 gave him new juggles with it's activation and a very combo friendly fireball. Ken got his VT1 fireball into VS cancels, Ryu became like, a good character Even Urien, which was heavily nerfed, got some new juggles from his reworked HeadButt, that's just some of the stuff that I'm aware of I have a feeling the Devs wanted to go spicy like that since the beginning but for some reason the higher ups didn't allow it, it's not widely known, but one of Ryu's unused animations in SFV was called, erm... Hashogeki, so I think SF6 is the unadulterated vision of what the devs wanted for SFV, even the realistic visuals were something they wanted for SFV but couldn't deliver back then.
There’s a Maximilian dood video of him talking to one of the devs (which happens to be one of the leads for sf6) and asking why so many characters are missing moves and why they’re taking things away, and the dev said “we know. We want to add those things to them” so it really feels like they were held back. It seems like ono leaving was much better for street fighter
@@andimari9194 That game was rushed in general. There's so many things that could have gone wrong in development for that. I don't like throwing one mostly PR guy under the bus for everything wrong with the game.
@@uberculex oh yeah I agree I don’t wanna just throw ono under the bus but I do feel he was a very big part in the game design. Because after he left a lot of moves were added, combos got more extensions and obviously we see the efforts into sf6. But yeah sf5 was during the crapcom era where the company was fucking hella shit up LOL
@@uberculex We owe the revival of sf to him so there's that, and let's not forget that capcom wasn't well financially during 2013-2017 to the point sfv had to be supported by Sony
The term I've always heard for what you called "Player/Skill Expression" is instead "Authorship." I've mostly seen it in reference to single player games, where if it is too narratively linear, has super straightforward level design, or is mechanically simple/unbalanced, players no longer feel the author of their own play and instead feel like the audience of what the true author (the dev) wants them to do. While i've seen it talked about in single player games mostly, I think you're right in that it's potentially even more important for multiplayer games.
people arguing optimal combos should always be used, but the thing here is, if things are too easy, youre playing footies with extra sauce and mini test of do you know the combo on the side. where if the optimal combos are harder i have to take into account more of the game state for more combo decisions like, can you do the combo? where are the potential drop points? if it does drop will i still be at advantage? will the harder combo even kill or is it still another touch situation? different people also have different lines to draw where the execution barrier should be tho and tourney setting is a whole other beast for those decisions
SFV's version of Dan is unironically one of my favorite, if not my number one favorite, portrayals of a stupid character in a fighting game. Like Saikyo is clearly an incredibly strong fighting style, Dan's father went toe to toe with Sagat, its just that Dan is too stupid to use it as effectively. So things like taunt cancel, red fireball, etc is Dan accidentally tapping into the true power of his fighting style by sheer accident. I love it, its so fun. And going into the video itself, I feel like SFV's strength now is that you can really make it as easy or as execution heavy as you want. If you want to just know a few combos and thats enough for you to have fun and take names, thats an option and totally fine. But theres still plenty of room to grow as a player in terms of mechanics and execution. Its still technically "easy" to play but theres a lot to still learn and enjoy about the game in a way that didnt really exist on launch.
The best part is that they managed to do all that within the span of a year. It really shows how confident the new team is when it comes to pushing the franchise forward and addressing the complaints of the fanbase!
What is interesting about Moruto dan and Daigo is that Daigo's decision to pick Moruto Dan for his team elevates this character and makes all other Japanese pros take it seriously.
Reminds me of how I liked that Forged in Fire show more then I thought. No matter how confident they were, there was always some chance that the blade they made would break unexpectedly. Kind of like how in SF4 the higher chance of a combo dropping made it more exciting IMO.
@@gspandem1204 not really if yoh look at bigger picture. It's far more interesting to have more options as a player than "oh this is optimal and easy to do"
@@jackg6887 The thing is, if you're facing an execution barrier, you're often left with nothing. If you weren't doing one frame links, your combos were just crap. It doesn't feel good when you have to hit them with 12 different raw hits to win while they dumpster you in two. Oh and people cheated around the one frame links with plinking anyways.
My biggest issue with 1f links as like a... 'player expression' thing, has to do with the way the exchange of information in the FGC has changed. You mentioned early in the video that the SF4 combo system was "like a sandbox" because any combo that was possible was purely a consequence of the frame data of individual moves. From that perspective, I can see a 1f link being cool in 2009 when most people might literally never know that a particular link is even possible. Today, however, we're a lot better about collecting and disseminating information online. If a 1f link is possible, anyone with a competitive drive will be able to know that it exists. From that perspective, a 1f link isn't a cool secret thing anymore, it's just THE THING TO DO, that also happens to be really really hard. And if you can't do it, sucks to suck I guess, especially if a character NEEDS a 1f link in order to keep up with other characters. And I don't think that feels good to most people. I also think that the spread of information has changed how we even define 'player expression' in the modern FGC. I don't think most people today think of those sorts of things as 'expressive,' other than as a literal expression of skill which is what we're all trying to do anyway. You can hit every 1f link? You can hit every FRC? You can hit every electric? Cool, that's really skillful and impressive, but I think the things that players consider 'expressive' today are more like... decisions to be made that allow a degree of player control over the game state, or the viability of multiple playstyles within a single character that aren't just linear improvements on each other.
I've been saying this for years and I couldn't agree more with you. This is why I'm excited for SamSho to get rollback. That game's entire deal is your ability to think and affect the game state rather than land technically impressive combos. It really comes down to who's planned ahead and who out-thought their opponent, not who labbed the most damaging combo.
I agree I hate this whole concept of "player expersion" through combos. The spread of information is way more now the optimal combos ect is all shared pretty fast. If it spread at that rate during SF4 era the combo variety would basically be similar/the same as SFV
The "player expression through combos" vs. "optimal play aided with widespread information" is something that worries me with SF6 having such an open-ended combo system. From the short time with the beta it gives the impression that the game will be healthy with a lot of player decisions. But there is also the possibility that once the game is "solved" everyone will be forced to play with some degenerate combos/setups that break the game for a while. The balance of system mechanics like drive rush and drive cancel kind of exist on a knifes edge.
@@Brian_F yeah the examples make it seem a bit like easy combo vs hard combo. Something like yang double slash fadc into clHP xx upkicks vs doubleslash fadc into character specific clMK dash clMK upkicks or instant divekick between clMK would show more how much variety there is to achieve practically the same damage but dramatically nore corner carry
man i havent played SF5 in like 3 years but watching this after being interested in SF with the SF6 beta makes me wanna go back to 5 and discover these new more complex execution character. Brian really sums up well what i hated about sf5 early and why i really miss sf4 and look forward to sf6. will have to break out the stick again later today i think
Viper, El fuerte, and rolento were characters who's playstyles were exclusively created by the community. Player expression is deeper than Dan's taunt and rogs combo potential. - A system that allows for emergent game play is one that simply gives players enough options to express themselves in their own way. I would have explained the concept by talking about how different players approached the same characters across the titles and how characters were developed by the community over time.
Honestly, all these reasons are what in my humble opinion makes V better than IV and why I spent my time when IV was the current game in the series playing MK9 & TTT2. Situational awareness being the primary factor is good. if i make good reads and play good neutral but i can't muster more than a couple of jabs that i may cancel into a special 70% of the time i'm going to get pissed off and play something else.
Exactly, a game can be super hype and super fun to play with situational awareness being the main focus and having super creative combos and setups being character-specific. That's exactly what happened with MK11, a game that is all about making reads and decisions. It got both more views for tourneys on both CZcams and Twitch, and got more tourney entries, on top of never having any "viewer fatigue". I think the real problem with SFV isn't the idea of focusing on situational awareness over execution, but rather it's the approach. V-Trigger was just way too powerful of a mechanic to use in a game like this, on top of bad design across the board.
@@RoyArkon ehh I see what you're trying to say but I think they overdid it with MK11. Every character basically has just like 2 or 3 optimal bread and butters for each character and all the rest of the strings are only used to switch it up sporadically. Not to mention defense meter builds so fast where you can break away out of every 3rd punish. I mean I know that's kind of the case in SFV but at least there almost every move has some sort of purpose and since they arent strings, you can go for more creative combos if you want and can do it. Honestly hope the next MK we get is more like 9 and not X & 11. I like both of them but they feel too much like injustice to me and I've never liked those games.
@@hjblacdes61 MKX and MK11 are no way like Injustice at all, both IJ1 and IJ2 are Zoning-based games, MKX is a Rushdown game and MK11 is read-based, which focuses situational awareness and of course did it way better than SFV. Also the defensive meter in MK11 doesn't refill that fast at all and you are not gonna do a breakaway more than once per round at best. And almost every string in MK11 has a purpose, not just for combos for other stuff too. This is exactly that opposite of that. And in SFV, the V-Trigger pretty much kills all creativity, unlike in both NRS/WB games, that has way more creatively, especially MKX.
I like how Luke's system is touted as a unique and creative way for timing things when in fact Makoto from Blazblue Continuum Shift did this with her Drive mechanic in like 2010-11.
SFV was a big move in the right direction removing such tight links. People complaining about input buffers remind me of that guy who got roasted by a Blazblue dev for saying they dumbed down the game or something of the sort
I think part of the issue is that people didn't like what they had to practice to "get good" at sfv. In sf4 you could sit in training mode all day and practice these links to get better combos and improve as a player. That's not the case in sfv so these types of players felt alienated
@@penguinmaster16 it's funny, i actually stopped playing fighters at sf4 in part because of execution issues, but ended up watching a ton of sf5 (and buying the game to support despite still not playing). Back in the day, there were always execution things which were out of bounds to me: v-ism or any similar custom system, parries, tight links etc. But it was always a way to recognize top players. It's amazing that top players are still so consistent in sfv. Although i wonder juust how much easier it really is... say a move is -4 and you have a 3 frame. Isnt the punish equivalent to a 1 frame link? Serious question, i suck at fighters (got a no.1 score on PS4 Sengoku 3 though ;)
@@penguinmaster16 linking 1-3 frame moves should not be considered being "skill", it is really easy to press buttons on correct frames, the problem lies in it's consistency, many things can affect these links even your monitors or controller lag which is something that actually sucks a shit ton from SV4 since it was such a frame specific game, the mechanics and the idea are good but the frame links are terrible, a middle ground from SV4 and SV5 should exist where you can buffer combos but still have the liberty to lab your own shit
I'm so glad you articulated this. This is exactly why I could never enjoy SFV. It felt like a massive step backwards from IV. I'm looking forward to SFVI.
It seems on the professional level, the majority of players will gravitate toward more accessible characters and consistent, reliable execution. SF2 was plagued with O. Sagat projectiles, SF3 had Chun-li c.MK into super, SF4 had Sagat's double f.HK into Ultra and Rufus' anything into ultra. While more execution heavy characters and combos are great for the casual scene, it's not usually what we see at the tops of tournament brackets. When I first played SF5, it genuinely felt that I could play any character I wanted, if I put enough time in it. Meanwhile, back in SF4, there were certain characters I wanted to play that I just simply could not get the hang of.
Hey Brian, hope you see this or anyone for that matter. About a month ago I was hardstuck bronze 600lp and actually kind of hated the game. Two weeks ago I watched The Bronze Player Crossroads and I really took what it said to heart. At the time I was around 700-800lp kolin main getting frustrated and kens that spammed every move in the book and people who jumped every moment they could. After that video, I decided to change my mindset and really learn how to play against "random" players in bronze. Long story short, I'm silver 2800lp in two weeks just because of a changed mindset and new love for the game. I've never had more fun in the game than recently, especially with a 9 winstreak in silver which is fucking insane to me. Anyway, thank you Brian if you do see this!
Luke bugs me because SF doesn't need a new poster boy. I don't WANT a new poster boy. Ryu, Ken and Chun li should forever be the faces of SF. The rest are just for options and character diversity to me, personally.
I didn’t think they needed one either but Capcom thinks the new casual fans might want one. that’s the whole reason they went with the realistic art style they’re trying to appeal to newcomers
i think its fair to say ryu and luke are the posterboys that appeal to different demographics. luke is made for the newer younger fans with his personality being very outgoing and ryu is made for the older fans since hes been the face of sf for 30+ years.
To this day if you showed me 100 different old sets of different Gen's and C.Vipers, I think I could pick out Xians Gen or Latifs Viper within seconds of the match. Those characters had all the cool stuff you mentioned about SF4 and took it to 11
Honestly this whole narrative around combos being super easy and brain dead on SFV is pretty toxic, particularly to new players. A couple years back I bought into said narrative and got the game, thinking it looked good and whatnot. To my surprise, combos were not easy to do. Like _at all_. Coming from an anime fighter background I just missed all of my links all the time, got discouraged and dropped the game. Links and combos might be 10 billion times easier than SFIV, but just repeating over and over how _easy_ they are can (and does) send the wrong message
See I can't do DBFZ combos at all, and people always talk about how easy to pick up that game is. I think it's absurdly hard, how to people remember these 40 input combos??
It's also worth mentioning with Akira that she is directly incentivised to pay attention to if the opponent is standing or crouching, as she gets to combo off of her shoulder bash if they are but loses out on her up kicks as an ender. Just another layer of combo awareness you need to have with her
This is an ideotic idea and it keeps percolating on the mind of many of my competitive friends, no, you don't need to make the game more dificult to give characters Personality, just give the damn characters more moves, and more combos that can deal max damage, then add more defensive options than just stand press the left or right d-pad button, it is not shameful to lose here and there to people that put less time to the game, this will always happen, make shit accessible, I am playing stfiv and charge characters are at a disadvantage just because of personality sake, take the chill pill, would not it be good to add more people to the game and be able to explain the game without having just to say, it is mad difficult
I think this kinda misses out on some context from IV since a lot of the 1-frame links became viable due to plinking, which was a contentious mechanic because a lot of older players didn't like that it allowed light to medium links, meaning that lights could lead to damaging combos.
Is it a hot take to say Seth also gives a lot of player expression? Not necessarily through execution, but more for his plethora of options with V-Skills and V-Trigger 1.
Y'all saying that combos and links are hella easy in SFV (especially compared to SFIV), but for newbies or scrubs like me it is still damn hard. This is one quite difficult and complicated genre to get into the fun part.
Being that I'm not super high level I'm glad when they fight a game has buffer and combos are easier but I'm happy for the high level player is that the last season gave them something to work with!
Situational awareness isn't the problem. A game can be super hype and super fun to play with situational awareness being the main focus and having super creative combos and setups being character-specific. That's exactly what happened with Mortal Kombat 11, a game that is all about making reads and decisions. It got both more views for tourneys on both CZcams and Twitch, and got more tourney entries, on top of never having any "viewer fatigue". I think the real problem with SFV isn't the idea of focusing on situational awareness over execution, but rather it's the approach. V-Trigger was just way too powerful of a mechanic to use in a game like this, on top of bad design across the board.
I think Chun Li always had a high learning curve and lots of skill dependent tricks that weren’t easy for many players, including myself, such as her charge buffering with SBK combos, standing fierce into super, air legs combos and crazy VT1 juggles, which could get really creative.
Situational awareness over single player jerking 1f combo mechanics is the best decision in sf5. This game just had rough af start, bad netcode and neutral game issues.
The problem with SF4 is that some 1-f links were borderline required to play certain characters. Do you want to link step kick into ultra with Abel, one of the only things that makes him threatening at a top level? Congrats, you have to grind out a particularly hard 1-f link that leaves you wide open if you mess it up. If you can't consistently do this superhuman thing, Abel drops 3 tiers. Also: techniques like plinking and mash cancels are nearly impossible on pad, the way the majority of people play this game. So every time he says one frame link, remember it's a 2 frame link on stick, giving players willing to spend more money on controllers that only really work on fighting games a distinct advantage.
Plinking into a heavy is literally the easiest 1frame link in the game. I think you meant to say "I can't plink on pad" that's your choice not to practice it don't tell people it's impossible when SMUG is literally hitting Dudley links all day long. Also the fuck is "mash cancels" some scrub quote ?
@@jackg6887 Mash cancels is like cancelling a normal into blanka lightning or honda hands. Mash special cancels are incredibly hard to do on pad. Also, calling something the easiest 1 frame link in the game is like saying mars is the easiest planet to get to.
@@jackg6887 It makes sense that a game is designed to be played on the default controller of the console it was released for. The vast majority of people are going to play the game that way.
@@uberculex It's not about design it's about personal comfort. Also there is 100% more pad players than stick. Did you mean at top level? Cos even then pad players are all around in top 8s and winning majors. Stop making up shit for excuses
There's absolutely no reason to not have a free-flowing link system with one-frame links. Execution is one of the skills in the FGC that can make you a good player. Many people focused heavily on execution in games like SF4 and MVC3. SFV ripped that away from all those players and invalidated people like Sako. Whether you realize it or not this one decision almost destroyed the FGC. All of the most hype non-drama moments in the FGC involved execution. In an effort to appeal to the masses they alienated their biggest fans. Some people are not able to react quickly. No amount of training can change that, so those people focused on execution. When they ripped that away all those people were just screwed and the SFV era of the FGC was the darkest it's been since 2008.
Street Fighter V had much, much bigger issues before you even get to the combo system: 1) The game had zero appeal for casual Street Fighter players that wanted to play the game offline, it had no arcade mode, no CPU versus mode. It only had these stupidly easy character story arcs that a 1 year old (literally, there are CZcams videos proving it -> czcams.com/video/cTdQ7Xx4Q34/video.html ) can beat and one of those non-ending endurance modes that no one wanted to play. And then there's the cinematic story mode, which, on top of not having long lasting appeal like an arcade mode, wasn't even available at launch. There were also no difficulty settings for the single player content, so if you happen to be better or worse than whatever difficulty Capcom decided to set the CPU at for a mode, there's nothing you could do about it. 2) The game also had little appeal to hardcore players as it had ridiculous amounts of input lag, barely functional multiplayer. Heck, lobbies from memory couldn't even support more than 2 players. And you'd try and connect, and get that stupid beep-beep sound over and over again. It also had a lot of issues with people losing and then just disconnecting, so you didn't get your score increased after a win and they also got no penalties for doing it. 3) WAY too much outsourcing of important assets like character models... people may not realise this, but the majority of the character models were not made in-house at Capcom. We know the French company Volta did some of the character models. So, not only were those assets not made in-house, they were not even made in Japan, which is why the style of the characters look all f* up. You can tell they were trying to emulate the Japanese style, but in the end it just looked bad. Wanna know why Ken looks like shit... outsourcing... wanna know why Ibuki looks like shit... outsourcing... Now don't get me wrong, outsourcing is a reality in the games industry, and I'm not saying, don't outsource anything, but it needs to be assets that are not critical to the game. We may never know exactly how many of the characters were outsourced, but my theory is that the only characters done in-house were the ones shown in the first public demo (Ryu & Chun). The combo system is hardly where I would start with SFV's problems. I think a lot of people forget how bad the game was at launch. I would say, hands down, Street Fighter V is the most disappointing game release of my life. People say Duke Nukem Forever was disappointing, but at least I had fun with that. Street Fighter V was basically a tech demo at launch, everything was barely functional. The good news is that SF6 so far seems to tick all the boxes. While it doesn't seem to have a cinematic story mode, there's plenty of single player content, and the multiplayer so far seems solid based on the beta.
Oh I thought the problem was pretty much the lack of content at lunch although that got fixed up but still (thank God they're fixing this problem as well as the lack of content at launch)
Me...VT1 grab aka Balrog VT2(can use with special...but have less stun/dmg/time/only normals-EX fireball activation) + VS2 aka "weak to fireball and slowpoke - Balrog like VS1...they even have same MK + MP + VS target combo lol...but rly sad..Oro CAN'T activate VT1 to make safe "overhead" - fix this and i think we see more VT1 users (fun fact...Balrog VS1 link aka normal > special > VS1-cancel...faster then Oro VS2 "only normal-cancel" on ground - but with VT2 stones u can spam "overhead" xD - when Balrog going to punish risk) = alternative for ppl who like Balrog insane +frame lowpushback normals and charge moves...but wana more "exotic" and throw ppl like a 500y old Hulk...
There is a fundamental reason about why there is more frame window to link combo.... Internet Lag/Latency... SFV is online match/cross platform oriented game...
Really good breakdown of the differences and consequences of the different SF games. Players/viewers may "know" it, but big brain Brian acting like a good historian/sociologist making sense of what we experience so that we can actually understand what we're experiencing.
I pre-ordered SF4 and hated it so much that I sold my copy on eBay. I bought in again for SSF4 and still hated it so much that the only SF game I played for over a decade was 3rd Strike. I just so happened to play the arcade version of SF5 in late 2021 and I immediately went home and bought it on the PS4. I've played every day since. I feel like the ability to choose two key factors for your character in SF5 before you even start the match is huge when it comes to player individuality. It impacted the match from the start and wasn't as overblown as Ultras in SF4. I feel like a lot of the criticism and hate for SF5 comes from so many people that dropped it early on that they will be the loudest voices when it comes to SF6.
Saying the combo system is the thing that separates the games is the goofiest shit I've heard. SFV wasn't a game when it released. I think that was the big issue
He starts by saying that it is one of many problems. In other videos talking about SF6 he talks about the launch issues about SF5 as a product as well.
I loved sfvs simplicity and it allowed me as a casual player who never could have a chance to level up traditionally in older titles get a good grasp of higher level play and peak my interest in real improvement like the skill based combos mentioned in this video I am soooo hyped now more than ever to pour my time into sf6 with all the unique and high execution combos you can do with drive rush and be not considered a basic anyone who doesn't have true skill
Game would be perfect without Luke. Makes me wonder how the final season of SF6 is going to be what brand new character will broken in it's final season? Only time will tell.
I love the game honestly but the lag is just fucking horrible. Makes you question your skill set sometimes. I'm in platinum ranks and people still mashing whole match for some damn reason. So you get beat from fake pressure and/or random bs (getting dp'd out of frame traps, mashing ex dp while they're negative, etc) that u can't challege to much due to input lag. And it's always someone on Playstation lol. Alot of people know their laggy and still play. They make accounts for it lol. Legit saw a guy named LaggyNinja and was teleporting the whole match. It's annoying as hell.
This was one of the core reasons why I left Street Fighter, I completely stopped covering the game due to the lack of identity in playstyle and execution.
i appreciate that the gameplay evolved through seasons, but i like the core game since day 1. For me the real issue with SFV is the netcode + input lag, i dont understand how a company like capcom is not capable of solving this problem.
SFIV was the worst combo link system in Streetfighter history and was actually the common complaint about IV. V had many issues but this one wasn't one of them nor was it a common complaint you made it out to be. The issue with skill expression had little to do with 1-frame links.
0:13 hmm interesting. Well I still have just now picked up SF4. I’ll say hot Damn it’s different 0:44 Ayo!! 👀! 1:02 1 frame links,are killing me. Trying this one cody combo has like 8 1 frame links this is Brutal yo lol. Not used to doing them in a consistent way 1:31 debatable as a fair newborn here 1:44 that is really true and things are still being discovered. I’ve looked a bunch of stuff in this game and just yesterday I saw again groundbreaking sh lol. I swear 2:07 then that’s on my alley 2:17 ay here we go 2:32 and last week I was trying the daigo evil ryu combo,saw your vid and you pulled those off like butter LOL. Then went with the Sako loops that sh has about 16 1-f which I’m gonna leave myself for another time hehe. It is true once I got it after,like,5 days of attempt sessions 4 days later I tried again took 15 minutes. To keep in mind also I’m fairly new so the Plinks I have not quite applied yet,which means I did the combo plinkless if it serves any more merit which I doubt💀. Aye feels good though,felt nice pulling it off with more relative ease. Uhm yeah just wanted to drop that while we’re with sf4 hehe😁. Yea those can be,rather tigh. 2:40 very true 3:05 neat 3:32 can imagine 3:52 not even thinking if that just flumbing lol. Consistency is not that big a goal for me in this game rn 4:26 oh just what I was talking about 4:35 yeah and you did this one 5 months ago lol 4:47 all over indeed almost every single link there 5:19 alright alright. To be fair though I still play SFV but it somehow feels like I get worse playing it lmao. Playing certain characters still I’ll say good times can and happen too even from sf4 🙌. 8:11 fundies 9:45 menat yeah 9:54 lmao and he did pretty well too 10:43 hmm right 10:59 that’s also when I started catching up with this game 11:44 yeah that’s pretty cool 12:34 yipp 13:39 rose right. Very different too
I disagree on the Ono part. For one, games are a collaborative effort. One person (who wasn't even the lead battle director) leaving shouldn't be attributed to the change in the characters released. Also I'd moreso argue it was moreso the team just getting better as we can see the progression. Characters like Poison, Gill and Seth share the same gameplay philosophy as the season V casts ie trying to give unique character mechanics (Poison with her stance cancels, Gills retribution, Seth needing to know the max damage he can get off each skill absorbed from the cast). I don't even like or care for Ono that much but I feel people who say this don't really get how game dev works
I feel like this was my biggest issue. I got sf4 so burnt into my head with the combo system I've made it harder to slow down for SFV and looking for too many different conversion routes vs just converting the hit itself.
obviously you are all about gameplay which is alright and I agree BUT there is another thing that put me off so much from SFV that I decided not to even bother. It was the Graphics/Aesthetics of the Characters. They were ALL bulky and had Muscles like Steroid FREAKS. Even characters who were supposed to be lean and mean looked like cheap Schwarzenegger copies. It immensely put me off.
Yep. The same guy..he's pretty much the trailblazer of anything execution heavy in sf4 series . Did you know that desk credits sako before for his chunli lightning legs loops back then.
@@genmac2843 True. He also trained Daigo's Evil Ryu and gave him all the tech. Sako might not be the guy that wins the most tournaments, but he's one hell of a scientist. Probably the best FGC scientist in the world
Now I'm only 8 min in, it sounds like you've made the factor that determines the skill level of the player is simply their ability to do combos. Surely I'm not understanding something or have t heard everything yet.
Nakayama is the game director since the beginning of SFV. The "Season V" not being a thing was another lie as Rose and Oro were leaked the same time as Gill and Seth.
“Should this be doing this much damage” No. Over-tuning Luke hurt a lot of the goodwill season 5 had garnered. It’s still a good game. But weird choices like that hold it back IMHO.
The balancing act of rewarding highly motivated and dedicated skilled players without ostracizing casual players must be a nightmare for game creators. Without getting wildly creative, you risk diluting the investment of one base and over-rewarding the other. At the end of the day though, it's a question of design philosophy. I think FromSoft (Dark Souls) and Grinding Gear Games (Path of Exile) have found by catering to hardcore players what Nintendo has found by catering to more casual players: know what kind of games you make, and just make them. The trouble for games like Street Fighter, which has a 30 year history, is any shift in philosophy to appease a new player base is going to piss off a lot of your current player base. Same thing goes for Halo and Diablo. I don't envy their positions as game creators. This is why I think SF6 is looking promising. More casual game modes, different controller input mechanics, and social areas make it appeal casually, but the gameplay seems rich and deep for more competitive folks. It could strike the goldilocks balance because of its creativity. Only time will tell.
Brian: "noone has to risk dropping a combo in SFV"
Me, with the worst execution known to mankind:
Bruh, same. I claw my way up to Silver every once in a while and I always come crashing down.
Practice your special moves one by one, all your links, and combos 10 times each if you mess up restart. It helps if your not used to it. I've been playing for years so alot of experienced players will tell you both the same
Bro everyone struggled to do a single dp once including brian and probably every other high level player don’t feel bad👀
Well... it's hard when you don't have hands. am i right?
@@frankhorrigan1508 Factual, but if u really wanted u could play with your feet. Anything is possible bro just believe 😤
I swear brian has explained 1 frame links like 100 times through the course of his channel 😂
1 frame links are like a religion at this point
I still don’t get it. What are 1 frame links?
Please, caveman it for me.
@@arrownoir basically a super tight combo that you cannot mash to get it. You have to press the button you'te trying to combo in exactly the right frame, and it is insanely hard.
So if you have 3 frames of hitstun available you can combo a 3 frame normal. That in theory is a one frame link, however sf5 fixed this by making every one frame link have the difficulty of a two frame link through some game developing shenanigans basically, but is a HUGE noticeable difference.
A two frame link is just a little tight and you can consistently get it down to muscle memory in a couple of attempts. Or you can just mash to get it.
A (real) one frame link won't connect through mashing, and it is impossible to do it consistently without some little game techniques that gift you extra frames (look into plinking).
Half of that was this video alone
@@arrownoir lol it explains itself, basically you have 60 seconds in 1 minute and 60 frames in 1 second, so to get a combo link you need to press your button at the exact frame for example the third frame and if u press at second or fourth frame your combo wont link
There's some wrong info here. Nakayama was always SFV's director, he just didn't get any exposure while Ono was the face of Street Fighter. However, Nakayama's job has stayed the same through V and also as is in VI. Matsumoto I'm pretty sure was a producer under Ono for most if not all of SFV. Nobody noticed these guys in the credits because nobody reads the credits, lol. These guys finally got to show their faces when Ono left.
ono really died for their sins, damn
The timing of things happening is a little interesting. I think Ono still had a lot of executive control during that period, simply because things started to pick up when he left. Maybe someone with more inside Capcom knowledge could correct me.
Oro downplaying starts at 16:45
Should have respected the stones.
classic brian_f moment
Sounds like someone who's got stoned
It's a stone Luigi
you love to see it
I always find it so impressive when a player converts a counter-hit light attack into a link to medium or heavy and combo from there. There's such a tiny amount of time to react and they pull it off
the only game I play where this kind of combo is a thing is alpha 3, and when I do combos like that I generally don't confirm the attack that goes after the counter hit (so if I'm going to do LP > MP, I do MP regardless of counter hit and only cancel it if I see that LP counter hit)
EDIT: you can also see the startup of the opponent's attack sometimes, which gives extra time to react to the fact that a counter hit will happen
Not sure if you're aware, but when players convert from counterhit lights into mediums/heavies, they commit to the followup button regardless an then cancel it into a special or link another button after it. Example:
- light, medium (no counterhit, don't cancel medium into something unsafe on block)
- counterhit light, medium (sees the counterhit of the light, wil cancel the medium)
Often the game allows you to do:
- light, medium, medium xx special
Gives you even more time to react
In short, people don't react to the counterhit light and then decide to do a followup action, they do they followup action regardless.
usually stuff like this is premeditated, for example you cannot do jab into cr MK with Ken unless it is on counter hit, so most players will click the buttons first (cr LP > cr MK) and then they will react if it hits or not with the cancel. So on block the cancel will be hadoken, but on hit it would be shoryuken/ex tatsu
The key is to look for the gold "Counter Hit" badge to pop up while you dial the first two hits. Makes it much easier
Nakayama was always the director of SFV. AFAIK Ono was basically the "studio head" of Capcom's fighting game division, he's an exec. He also made himself a major face in the PR for the game but he's not a game designer. Sure, he deserves a lot of blame for SFV launch but these later gameplay changes should be attributed to the devs getting better not Ono's departure. We don't know how much the dev team has changed if much at all. IMO the game steadily improved and that's including thru the time Ono was still in charge
Personally for me, I dropped at s4 cuz I couldn't take the game anymore. It took way too long and was asking for more money to get better.
The Producer Shuhei Matsumoto was brought in to SFV much later. But, is it really a coincidence SF5 got better after Ono left...
I mean not exactly the devs to blame, mostly the one that's on higher hierarchy and chooses the gameplay design, the devs just obey.
Ono was more than an exec and suit, and shares a large part of the blame for SFVs early gameplay woes on top of its launch
He served as the games primary producer and was largely responsible for the games direction into E-sports and SF2 fundamentals in the same way he is also responsible for SF4 being SF2 pt 2
If anything, SFV is a case study in how a misfit producer can hamstring all facets of a projects development, especially in JP game dev where they often serve as co-directors on projects ( often "directing" games more than the credited directors )
@@RayzeCruxis lol what?
Juri is another example of this. Easy combos to perform, but with the store mechanic and juggle/fireball options in the corner gave her a lot of options to consider. Most Juris can perform a max damage combo when Juri has full stores but watching JAK or the other specialists play her you really see their mastery shine when they convert hits without the full set stocked up.
Honestly once you get to know the character you learn how kinda limited her kit is. No (non-store) special cancels in V-Trigger 1, most of her non-stock combos are just button -> special, everything but medium store and light store are combo enders, not extenders... Not trying to be critical of the character, I've mained her for a long time, but a lot of people seem to think there's this ocean of sauce for the character because of the store mechanic.
Don't get me wrong, there *is* sauce for this character, and some obscure and execution-heavy combos to boot (Link standing medium punch into standing medium punch with a 1 frame micro walk on crouching targets, or standing on counter-hit and a longer walk) but I wouldn't put her in the top 5 most complex characters in SF5... but then again I'm biased by having probably over 60 hours in the lab with her.
@@kevingriffith6011 I hated what Capcom did to Juri with SFV. It felt like she was balanced around having her stores, without any real concern for what she might have to give up or risk to get them. That Capcom just assumed the high level Juri players would always have stores...
@@BainesMkII Honestly my only wish is that they made it a little easier for her to get stores outside of neutral. Right now she's good, doesn't need a buff, but back when she was near the bottom she really needed more ways to get stock than throwing away a whole combo for button+store, giving up her frame advantage in a blockstring or landing her target combo.
After Ono's departure from SFV, not only did the new characters come with a lot of sauce, but some older characters got some spicy stuff as well
Akuma's VS2 and VT2 got reworked from the ground up and they added a lot of combo possibilities, they freaking made his VT2 cancel all his moves into any special and his VS2 gave him new juggles with it's activation and a very combo friendly fireball.
Ken got his VT1 fireball into VS cancels, Ryu became like, a good character
Even Urien, which was heavily nerfed, got some new juggles from his reworked HeadButt, that's just some of the stuff that I'm aware of
I have a feeling the Devs wanted to go spicy like that since the beginning but for some reason the higher ups didn't allow it, it's not widely known, but one of Ryu's unused animations in SFV was called, erm... Hashogeki, so I think SF6 is the unadulterated vision of what the devs wanted for SFV, even the realistic visuals were something they wanted for SFV but couldn't deliver back then.
There’s a Maximilian dood video of him talking to one of the devs (which happens to be one of the leads for sf6) and asking why so many characters are missing moves and why they’re taking things away, and the dev said “we know. We want to add those things to them” so it really feels like they were held back. It seems like ono leaving was much better for street fighter
@@andimari9194 That game was rushed in general. There's so many things that could have gone wrong in development for that. I don't like throwing one mostly PR guy under the bus for everything wrong with the game.
@@uberculex oh yeah I agree I don’t wanna just throw ono under the bus but I do feel he was a very big part in the game design. Because after he left a lot of moves were added, combos got more extensions and obviously we see the efforts into sf6. But yeah sf5 was during the crapcom era where the company was fucking hella shit up LOL
@@uberculex We owe the revival of sf to him so there's that, and let's not forget that capcom wasn't well financially during 2013-2017 to the point sfv had to be supported by Sony
Sometimes having a figurehead holds you back. You want to do new crazy things but you also don't want to risk disappointing them.
Brian and his editor consistently putting out awesome content. Appreciate you guys , keeps me interested in the FGC even when I'm not playing
The term I've always heard for what you called "Player/Skill Expression" is instead "Authorship." I've mostly seen it in reference to single player games, where if it is too narratively linear, has super straightforward level design, or is mechanically simple/unbalanced, players no longer feel the author of their own play and instead feel like the audience of what the true author (the dev) wants them to do. While i've seen it talked about in single player games mostly, I think you're right in that it's potentially even more important for multiplayer games.
people arguing optimal combos should always be used, but the thing here is, if things are too easy, youre playing footies with extra sauce and mini test of do you know the combo on the side. where if the optimal combos are harder i have to take into account more of the game state for more combo decisions like, can you do the combo? where are the potential drop points? if it does drop will i still be at advantage? will the harder combo even kill or is it still another touch situation? different people also have different lines to draw where the execution barrier should be tho and tourney setting is a whole other beast for those decisions
THIS
People nowadays underplay so much the impact execution has on the decision making
SFV's version of Dan is unironically one of my favorite, if not my number one favorite, portrayals of a stupid character in a fighting game. Like Saikyo is clearly an incredibly strong fighting style, Dan's father went toe to toe with Sagat, its just that Dan is too stupid to use it as effectively. So things like taunt cancel, red fireball, etc is Dan accidentally tapping into the true power of his fighting style by sheer accident. I love it, its so fun.
And going into the video itself, I feel like SFV's strength now is that you can really make it as easy or as execution heavy as you want. If you want to just know a few combos and thats enough for you to have fun and take names, thats an option and totally fine. But theres still plenty of room to grow as a player in terms of mechanics and execution. Its still technically "easy" to play but theres a lot to still learn and enjoy about the game in a way that didnt really exist on launch.
The best part is that they managed to do all that within the span of a year. It really shows how confident the new team is when it comes to pushing the franchise forward and addressing the complaints of the fanbase!
Akira also has different combos based on if the opponent is standing or crouching.
FANG does as well
Great shit, you and Brian F are my favs forreal, thanks Sajam.
What is interesting about Moruto dan and Daigo is that Daigo's decision to pick Moruto Dan for his team elevates this character and makes all other Japanese pros take it seriously.
Reminds me of how I liked that Forged in Fire show more then I thought. No matter how confident they were, there was always some chance that the blade they made would break unexpectedly. Kind of like how in SF4 the higher chance of a combo dropping made it more exciting IMO.
I feel like that's cool from a spectators view, but really infuriating for players.
@@gspandem1204 not really if yoh look at bigger picture. It's far more interesting to have more options as a player than "oh this is optimal and easy to do"
@@jackg6887 The thing is, if you're facing an execution barrier, you're often left with nothing. If you weren't doing one frame links, your combos were just crap. It doesn't feel good when you have to hit them with 12 different raw hits to win while they dumpster you in two. Oh and people cheated around the one frame links with plinking anyways.
General question: how long does a video like this take you to make? The filming, editing, coming up with the idea and implementing it…
Many
Brians gonna turn this question into a 20 minute video
@@FlashTheNeon I would watch that…
Ask that to Brain_AG
@Super Mario Somebody does. This is very clearly editted.
Street Fighter 5 has 4 frames of buffer, instead of the widely known 3 frames. I saw a video showing this, frame by frame.
My biggest issue with 1f links as like a... 'player expression' thing, has to do with the way the exchange of information in the FGC has changed. You mentioned early in the video that the SF4 combo system was "like a sandbox" because any combo that was possible was purely a consequence of the frame data of individual moves. From that perspective, I can see a 1f link being cool in 2009 when most people might literally never know that a particular link is even possible.
Today, however, we're a lot better about collecting and disseminating information online. If a 1f link is possible, anyone with a competitive drive will be able to know that it exists. From that perspective, a 1f link isn't a cool secret thing anymore, it's just THE THING TO DO, that also happens to be really really hard. And if you can't do it, sucks to suck I guess, especially if a character NEEDS a 1f link in order to keep up with other characters. And I don't think that feels good to most people.
I also think that the spread of information has changed how we even define 'player expression' in the modern FGC. I don't think most people today think of those sorts of things as 'expressive,' other than as a literal expression of skill which is what we're all trying to do anyway. You can hit every 1f link? You can hit every FRC? You can hit every electric? Cool, that's really skillful and impressive, but I think the things that players consider 'expressive' today are more like... decisions to be made that allow a degree of player control over the game state, or the viability of multiple playstyles within a single character that aren't just linear improvements on each other.
I've been saying this for years and I couldn't agree more with you. This is why I'm excited for SamSho to get rollback. That game's entire deal is your ability to think and affect the game state rather than land technically impressive combos. It really comes down to who's planned ahead and who out-thought their opponent, not who labbed the most damaging combo.
I agree I hate this whole concept of "player expersion" through combos. The spread of information is way more now the optimal combos ect is all shared pretty fast. If it spread at that rate during SF4 era the combo variety would basically be similar/the same as SFV
The "player expression through combos" vs. "optimal play aided with widespread information" is something that worries me with SF6 having such an open-ended combo system.
From the short time with the beta it gives the impression that the game will be healthy with a lot of player decisions. But there is also the possibility that once the game is "solved" everyone will be forced to play with some degenerate combos/setups that break the game for a while.
The balance of system mechanics like drive rush and drive cancel kind of exist on a knifes edge.
I honestly can agree more although I'd like to think that sf6 won't fall on the that same hole and we can truly be unique with our combos
@@Brian_F yeah the examples make it seem a bit like easy combo vs hard combo. Something like yang double slash fadc into clHP xx upkicks vs doubleslash fadc into character specific clMK dash clMK upkicks or instant divekick between clMK would show more how much variety there is to achieve practically the same damage but dramatically nore corner carry
man i havent played SF5 in like 3 years but watching this after being interested in SF with the SF6 beta makes me wanna go back to 5 and discover these new more complex execution character. Brian really sums up well what i hated about sf5 early and why i really miss sf4 and look forward to sf6.
will have to break out the stick again later today i think
Viper, El fuerte, and rolento were characters who's playstyles were exclusively created by the community. Player expression is deeper than Dan's taunt and rogs combo potential.
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A system that allows for emergent game play is one that simply gives players enough options to express themselves in their own way. I would have explained the concept by talking about how different players approached the same characters across the titles and how characters were developed by the community over time.
This is such amazing content and delves deep into really interesting mechanics and discussions in SF. Love the new format and can't wait to see more!
Honestly, all these reasons are what in my humble opinion makes V better than IV and why I spent my time when IV was the current game in the series playing MK9 & TTT2. Situational awareness being the primary factor is good. if i make good reads and play good neutral but i can't muster more than a couple of jabs that i may cancel into a special 70% of the time i'm going to get pissed off and play something else.
Exactly, a game can be super hype and super fun to play with situational awareness being the main focus and having super creative combos and setups being character-specific. That's exactly what happened with MK11, a game that is all about making reads and decisions. It got both more views for tourneys on both CZcams and Twitch, and got more tourney entries, on top of never having any "viewer fatigue". I think the real problem with SFV isn't the idea of focusing on situational awareness over execution, but rather it's the approach. V-Trigger was just way too powerful of a mechanic to use in a game like this, on top of bad design across the board.
@@RoyArkon ehh I see what you're trying to say but I think they overdid it with MK11. Every character basically has just like 2 or 3 optimal bread and butters for each character and all the rest of the strings are only used to switch it up sporadically. Not to mention defense meter builds so fast where you can break away out of every 3rd punish. I mean I know that's kind of the case in SFV but at least there almost every move has some sort of purpose and since they arent strings, you can go for more creative combos if you want and can do it. Honestly hope the next MK we get is more like 9 and not X & 11. I like both of them but they feel too much like injustice to me and I've never liked those games.
V trigger isnt a bad idea on paper but in execution it's way too strong to not use every round
@@hjblacdes61 MKX and MK11 are no way like Injustice at all, both IJ1 and IJ2 are Zoning-based games, MKX is a Rushdown game and MK11 is read-based, which focuses situational awareness and of course did it way better than SFV. Also the defensive meter in MK11 doesn't refill that fast at all and you are not gonna do a breakaway more than once per round at best. And almost every string in MK11 has a purpose, not just for combos for other stuff too. This is exactly that opposite of that. And in SFV, the V-Trigger pretty much kills all creativity, unlike in both NRS/WB games, that has way more creatively, especially MKX.
I definitely don't see dropping combos as something to hope for in order to win against someone.
I like how Luke's system is touted as a unique and creative way for timing things when in fact Makoto from Blazblue Continuum Shift did this with her Drive mechanic in like 2010-11.
Unique for the series Habibi
SFV was a big move in the right direction removing such tight links. People complaining about input buffers remind me of that guy who got roasted by a Blazblue dev for saying they dumbed down the game or something of the sort
Thank you for all the cool content guys. It’s channels like yours that are keeping my interest in fighting games alive
this is something i love about sf5. they made it easier, and yet still the top players would dominate, proving execution was far from everything.
I think part of the issue is that people didn't like what they had to practice to "get good" at sfv. In sf4 you could sit in training mode all day and practice these links to get better combos and improve as a player. That's not the case in sfv so these types of players felt alienated
@@penguinmaster16 it's funny, i actually stopped playing fighters at sf4 in part because of execution issues, but ended up watching a ton of sf5 (and buying the game to support despite still not playing). Back in the day, there were always execution things which were out of bounds to me: v-ism or any similar custom system, parries, tight links etc. But it was always a way to recognize top players. It's amazing that top players are still so consistent in sfv. Although i wonder juust how much easier it really is... say a move is -4 and you have a 3 frame. Isnt the punish equivalent to a 1 frame link? Serious question, i suck at fighters (got a no.1 score on PS4 Sengoku 3 though ;)
@@ValChronification it is, but that window isn't something that can be guaranteed to happen in a match like a combo you do yourself
@@penguinmaster16 linking 1-3 frame moves should not be considered being "skill", it is really easy to press buttons on correct frames, the problem lies in it's consistency, many things can affect these links even your monitors or controller lag which is something that actually sucks a shit ton from SV4 since it was such a frame specific game, the mechanics and the idea are good but the frame links are terrible, a middle ground from SV4 and SV5 should exist where you can buffer combos but still have the liberty to lab your own shit
I'm so glad you articulated this. This is exactly why I could never enjoy SFV. It felt like a massive step backwards from IV. I'm looking forward to SFVI.
It seems on the professional level, the majority of players will gravitate toward more accessible characters and consistent, reliable execution. SF2 was plagued with O. Sagat projectiles, SF3 had Chun-li c.MK into super, SF4 had Sagat's double f.HK into Ultra and Rufus' anything into ultra. While more execution heavy characters and combos are great for the casual scene, it's not usually what we see at the tops of tournament brackets. When I first played SF5, it genuinely felt that I could play any character I wanted, if I put enough time in it. Meanwhile, back in SF4, there were certain characters I wanted to play that I just simply could not get the hang of.
Hey Brian, hope you see this or anyone for that matter. About a month ago I was hardstuck bronze 600lp and actually kind of hated the game. Two weeks ago I watched The Bronze Player Crossroads and I really took what it said to heart. At the time I was around 700-800lp kolin main getting frustrated and kens that spammed every move in the book and people who jumped every moment they could. After that video, I decided to change my mindset and really learn how to play against "random" players in bronze. Long story short, I'm silver 2800lp in two weeks just because of a changed mindset and new love for the game. I've never had more fun in the game than recently, especially with a 9 winstreak in silver which is fucking insane to me. Anyway, thank you Brian if you do see this!
Legend
Luke bugs me because SF doesn't need a new poster boy. I don't WANT a new poster boy. Ryu, Ken and Chun li should forever be the faces of SF. The rest are just for options and character diversity to me, personally.
I didn’t think they needed one either but Capcom thinks the new casual fans might want one. that’s the whole reason they went with the realistic art style they’re trying to appeal to newcomers
i think its fair to say ryu and luke are the posterboys that appeal to different demographics. luke is made for the newer younger fans with his personality being very outgoing and ryu is made for the older fans since hes been the face of sf for 30+ years.
To this day if you showed me 100 different old sets of different Gen's and C.Vipers, I think I could pick out Xians Gen or Latifs Viper within seconds of the match. Those characters had all the cool stuff you mentioned about SF4 and took it to 11
Honestly this whole narrative around combos being super easy and brain dead on SFV is pretty toxic, particularly to new players. A couple years back I bought into said narrative and got the game, thinking it looked good and whatnot. To my surprise, combos were not easy to do. Like _at all_. Coming from an anime fighter background I just missed all of my links all the time, got discouraged and dropped the game.
Links and combos might be 10 billion times easier than SFIV, but just repeating over and over how _easy_ they are can (and does) send the wrong message
See I can't do DBFZ combos at all, and people always talk about how easy to pick up that game is. I think it's absurdly hard, how to people remember these 40 input combos??
It's also worth mentioning with Akira that she is directly incentivised to pay attention to if the opponent is standing or crouching, as she gets to combo off of her shoulder bash if they are but loses out on her up kicks as an ender. Just another layer of combo awareness you need to have with her
This is an ideotic idea and it keeps percolating on the mind of many of my competitive friends, no, you don't need to make the game more dificult to give characters Personality, just give the damn characters more moves, and more combos that can deal max damage, then add more defensive options than just stand press the left or right d-pad button, it is not shameful to lose here and there to people that put less time to the game, this will always happen, make shit accessible, I am playing stfiv and charge characters are at a disadvantage just because of personality sake, take the chill pill, would not it be good to add more people to the game and be able to explain the game without having just to say, it is mad difficult
I think this kinda misses out on some context from IV since a lot of the 1-frame links became viable due to plinking, which was a contentious mechanic because a lot of older players didn't like that it allowed light to medium links, meaning that lights could lead to damaging combos.
Nothing feels better then hitting 1 frame links, and they took it away.
Dope video, you explained the mechanics of SF4 vs SF5 in a way a bozo like me who only spectates fighting games can comprehend lol
already can tell this will be a banger, Brian has some of the best pre-recorded footage in the fgc
Brian clutching the 1f links for us was a sweet humble brag. Great video.
I don't understand how players can do 1 frame links in delay base netcode
Legit this
They can't, not consistently. SF IV is a very different game online.
Easy my man. You try it and fail often. That's how the game is!
You learn the relative timing of the button presses, regardless of what you see on screen. The relative timing is always the same even with the delay.
Is it a hot take to say Seth also gives a lot of player expression? Not necessarily through execution, but more for his plethora of options with V-Skills and V-Trigger 1.
Y'all saying that combos and links are hella easy in SFV (especially compared to SFIV), but for newbies or scrubs like me it is still damn hard. This is one quite difficult and complicated genre to get into the fun part.
Very casual flex on those 4 one frame links on that balrog play in the opening lmao
All this technicality is what makes these games so moist and me truly appreciate skilled players
Being that I'm not super high level I'm glad when they fight a game has buffer and combos are easier but I'm happy for the high level player is that the last season gave them something to work with!
Situational awareness isn't the problem. A game can be super hype and super fun to play with situational awareness being the main focus and having super creative combos and setups being character-specific. That's exactly what happened with Mortal Kombat 11, a game that is all about making reads and decisions. It got both more views for tourneys on both CZcams and Twitch, and got more tourney entries, on top of never having any "viewer fatigue". I think the real problem with SFV isn't the idea of focusing on situational awareness over execution, but rather it's the approach. V-Trigger was just way too powerful of a mechanic to use in a game like this, on top of bad design across the board.
I think Chun Li always had a high learning curve and lots of skill dependent tricks that weren’t easy for many players, including myself, such as her charge buffering with SBK combos, standing fierce into super, air legs combos and crazy VT1 juggles, which could get really creative.
"Street Fighter V had a problem, now you'd be asking yourselves, which one?" Man I LOVE you
Situational awareness over single player jerking 1f combo mechanics is the best decision in sf5.
This game just had rough af start, bad netcode and neutral game issues.
That was a great video 👏🏼
The problem with SF4 is that some 1-f links were borderline required to play certain characters. Do you want to link step kick into ultra with Abel, one of the only things that makes him threatening at a top level? Congrats, you have to grind out a particularly hard 1-f link that leaves you wide open if you mess it up. If you can't consistently do this superhuman thing, Abel drops 3 tiers.
Also: techniques like plinking and mash cancels are nearly impossible on pad, the way the majority of people play this game. So every time he says one frame link, remember it's a 2 frame link on stick, giving players willing to spend more money on controllers that only really work on fighting games a distinct advantage.
Plinking into a heavy is literally the easiest 1frame link in the game. I think you meant to say "I can't plink on pad" that's your choice not to practice it don't tell people it's impossible when SMUG is literally hitting Dudley links all day long.
Also the fuck is "mash cancels" some scrub quote ?
@@jackg6887 Mash cancels is like cancelling a normal into blanka lightning or honda hands. Mash special cancels are incredibly hard to do on pad.
Also, calling something the easiest 1 frame link in the game is like saying mars is the easiest planet to get to.
@@uberculex bros mad over $50 sticks. Definitely skill issue
@@jackg6887 It makes sense that a game is designed to be played on the default controller of the console it was released for. The vast majority of people are going to play the game that way.
@@uberculex It's not about design it's about personal comfort. Also there is 100% more pad players than stick. Did you mean at top level? Cos even then pad players are all around in top 8s and winning majors. Stop making up shit for excuses
That thumbnail was top tier best ryu moments
the thumbnail of this video made me rock solid
I didn't know they fixed the netcode, still seemed pretty bad when I played yesterday.
It is still bad , its just way better than b4 lol
7:30 still feel this way about 5 unfortunately, even with two V triggers
This was a genuinely fun video! I enjoyed watching this.
There's absolutely no reason to not have a free-flowing link system with one-frame links. Execution is one of the skills in the FGC that can make you a good player. Many people focused heavily on execution in games like SF4 and MVC3. SFV ripped that away from all those players and invalidated people like Sako. Whether you realize it or not this one decision almost destroyed the FGC.
All of the most hype non-drama moments in the FGC involved execution. In an effort to appeal to the masses they alienated their biggest fans. Some people are not able to react quickly. No amount of training can change that, so those people focused on execution. When they ripped that away all those people were just screwed and the SFV era of the FGC was the darkest it's been since 2008.
Is the thumbnail a Beamthegamer reference? ,😲😲😲😲
Yeah Brian you talked sense
Street Fighter V had much, much bigger issues before you even get to the combo system:
1) The game had zero appeal for casual Street Fighter players that wanted to play the game offline, it had no arcade mode, no CPU versus mode. It only had these stupidly easy character story arcs that a 1 year old (literally, there are CZcams videos proving it -> czcams.com/video/cTdQ7Xx4Q34/video.html ) can beat and one of those non-ending endurance modes that no one wanted to play. And then there's the cinematic story mode, which, on top of not having long lasting appeal like an arcade mode, wasn't even available at launch. There were also no difficulty settings for the single player content, so if you happen to be better or worse than whatever difficulty Capcom decided to set the CPU at for a mode, there's nothing you could do about it.
2) The game also had little appeal to hardcore players as it had ridiculous amounts of input lag, barely functional multiplayer. Heck, lobbies from memory couldn't even support more than 2 players. And you'd try and connect, and get that stupid beep-beep sound over and over again. It also had a lot of issues with people losing and then just disconnecting, so you didn't get your score increased after a win and they also got no penalties for doing it.
3) WAY too much outsourcing of important assets like character models... people may not realise this, but the majority of the character models were not made in-house at Capcom. We know the French company Volta did some of the character models. So, not only were those assets not made in-house, they were not even made in Japan, which is why the style of the characters look all f* up. You can tell they were trying to emulate the Japanese style, but in the end it just looked bad. Wanna know why Ken looks like shit... outsourcing... wanna know why Ibuki looks like shit... outsourcing... Now don't get me wrong, outsourcing is a reality in the games industry, and I'm not saying, don't outsource anything, but it needs to be assets that are not critical to the game. We may never know exactly how many of the characters were outsourced, but my theory is that the only characters done in-house were the ones shown in the first public demo (Ryu & Chun).
The combo system is hardly where I would start with SFV's problems. I think a lot of people forget how bad the game was at launch. I would say, hands down, Street Fighter V is the most disappointing game release of my life. People say Duke Nukem Forever was disappointing, but at least I had fun with that. Street Fighter V was basically a tech demo at launch, everything was barely functional.
The good news is that SF6 so far seems to tick all the boxes. While it doesn't seem to have a cinematic story mode, there's plenty of single player content, and the multiplayer so far seems solid based on the beta.
Oh I thought the problem was pretty much the lack of content at lunch although that got fixed up but still (thank God they're fixing this problem as well as the lack of content at launch)
Is there an Oro main on the planet that actually uses his VT1? Nobody seems to acknowledge its existence, not even Brian as a thing you can do.
That's due to the fact that it's neither as fun nor as optimal. But the grounded version of the grab looks pretty funny to me at least lol
Me...VT1 grab aka Balrog VT2(can use with special...but have less stun/dmg/time/only normals-EX fireball activation) + VS2 aka "weak to fireball and slowpoke - Balrog like VS1...they even have same MK + MP + VS target combo lol...but rly sad..Oro CAN'T activate VT1 to make safe "overhead" - fix this and i think we see more VT1 users (fun fact...Balrog VS1 link aka normal > special > VS1-cancel...faster then Oro VS2 "only normal-cancel" on ground - but with VT2 stones u can spam "overhead" xD - when Balrog going to punish risk) = alternative for ppl who like Balrog insane +frame lowpushback normals and charge moves...but wana more "exotic" and throw ppl like a 500y old Hulk...
In sf4 Sako was also known to use a modded stick with the start button next to LP to plink lights.
There is a fundamental reason about why there is more frame window to link combo.... Internet Lag/Latency...
SFV is online match/cross platform oriented game...
Really good breakdown of the differences and consequences of the different SF games. Players/viewers may "know" it, but big brain Brian acting like a good historian/sociologist making sense of what we experience so that we can actually understand what we're experiencing.
As a bad player, SFIV combos were INCREDIBLY precise
This was an awesome video, I don't know what the difference is between others you make but I've definitely enjoyed this one more than the average
:D
I pre-ordered SF4 and hated it so much that I sold my copy on eBay. I bought in again for SSF4 and still hated it so much that the only SF game I played for over a decade was 3rd Strike. I just so happened to play the arcade version of SF5 in late 2021 and I immediately went home and bought it on the PS4. I've played every day since. I feel like the ability to choose two key factors for your character in SF5 before you even start the match is huge when it comes to player individuality. It impacted the match from the start and wasn't as overblown as Ultras in SF4. I feel like a lot of the criticism and hate for SF5 comes from so many people that dropped it early on that they will be the loudest voices when it comes to SF6.
Saying the combo system is the thing that separates the games is the goofiest shit I've heard. SFV wasn't a game when it released. I think that was the big issue
He starts by saying that it is one of many problems. In other videos talking about SF6 he talks about the launch issues about SF5 as a product as well.
I loved sfvs simplicity and it allowed me as a casual player who never could have a chance to level up traditionally in older titles get a good grasp of higher level play and peak my interest in real improvement like the skill based combos mentioned in this video I am soooo hyped now more than ever to pour my time into sf6 with all the unique and high execution combos you can do with drive rush and be not considered a basic anyone who doesn't have true skill
Game would be perfect without Luke. Makes me wonder how the final season of SF6 is going to be what brand new character will broken in it's final season? Only time will tell.
I love the game honestly but the lag is just fucking horrible. Makes you question your skill set sometimes. I'm in platinum ranks and people still mashing whole match for some damn reason. So you get beat from fake pressure and/or random bs (getting dp'd out of frame traps, mashing ex dp while they're negative, etc) that u can't challege to much due to input lag. And it's always someone on Playstation lol. Alot of people know their laggy and still play. They make accounts for it lol. Legit saw a guy named LaggyNinja and was teleporting the whole match. It's annoying as hell.
This was one of the core reasons why I left Street Fighter, I completely stopped covering the game due to the lack of identity in playstyle and execution.
wake up babe new brian f video
i appreciate that the gameplay evolved through seasons, but i like the core game since day 1. For me the real issue with SFV is the netcode + input lag, i dont understand how a company like capcom is not capable of solving this problem.
Good video format I can already tell by just looking at the annotations 👍👍👍
Love to see this is formatted like a slide deck lol the CZcams game needs these next level communication strats
Im not even into SF but after getting dissapointed with GGST and watching how creative SF6 combos can be, Im pretty hyped.
Its funny how SFV has more combo potential that GGS
my first game was gg strive. im playing sfv these days and i regret my first fg was ggstrive. shit balance and shitty chars 💩
i think luke is sfv's overpwered chars in sfv. But gg strive..
gl nago ram zato hc..
@@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034 What combos? Street Fighter has combos?
@@magmaspacer1967 Nice bait
11:07 Dan has the most fluid animations of any SF character in a long time
SFIV was the worst combo link system in Streetfighter history and was actually the common complaint about IV. V had many issues but this one wasn't one of them nor was it a common complaint you made it out to be. The issue with skill expression had little to do with 1-frame links.
0:13 hmm interesting. Well I still have just now picked up SF4. I’ll say hot Damn it’s different
0:44 Ayo!! 👀!
1:02 1 frame links,are killing me. Trying this one cody combo has like 8 1 frame links this is Brutal yo lol. Not used to doing them in a consistent way
1:31 debatable as a fair newborn here
1:44 that is really true and things are still being discovered. I’ve looked a bunch of stuff in this game and just yesterday I saw again groundbreaking sh lol. I swear
2:07 then that’s on my alley
2:17 ay here we go
2:32 and last week I was trying the daigo evil ryu combo,saw your vid and you pulled those off like butter LOL. Then went with the Sako loops that sh has about 16 1-f which I’m gonna leave myself for another time hehe. It is true once I got it after,like,5 days of attempt sessions 4 days later I tried again took 15 minutes. To keep in mind also I’m fairly new so the Plinks I have not quite applied yet,which means I did the combo plinkless if it serves any more merit which I doubt💀. Aye feels good though,felt nice pulling it off with more relative ease. Uhm yeah just wanted to drop that while we’re with sf4 hehe😁. Yea those can be,rather tigh.
2:40 very true
3:05 neat
3:32 can imagine
3:52 not even thinking if that just flumbing lol. Consistency is not that big a goal for me in this game rn
4:26 oh just what I was talking about
4:35 yeah and you did this one 5 months ago lol
4:47 all over indeed almost every single link there
5:19 alright alright. To be fair though I still play SFV but it somehow feels like I get worse playing it lmao. Playing certain characters still I’ll say good times can and happen too even from sf4 🙌.
8:11 fundies
9:45 menat yeah
9:54 lmao and he did pretty well too
10:43 hmm right
10:59 that’s also when I started catching up with this game
11:44 yeah that’s pretty cool
12:34 yipp
13:39 rose right. Very different too
Best explanation ever around the issue
If only they could fix the netcode 😢
Of course they'd fix something now with SF VI on the horizon
I disagree on the Ono part. For one, games are a collaborative effort. One person (who wasn't even the lead battle director) leaving shouldn't be attributed to the change in the characters released. Also I'd moreso argue it was moreso the team just getting better as we can see the progression. Characters like Poison, Gill and Seth share the same gameplay philosophy as the season V casts ie trying to give unique character mechanics (Poison with her stance cancels, Gills retribution, Seth needing to know the max damage he can get off each skill absorbed from the cast). I don't even like or care for Ono that much but I feel people who say this don't really get how game dev works
I feel like this was my biggest issue. I got sf4 so burnt into my head with the combo system I've made it harder to slow down for SFV and looking for too many different conversion routes vs just converting the hit itself.
obviously you are all about gameplay which is alright and I agree BUT there is another thing that put me off so much from SFV that I decided not to even bother.
It was the Graphics/Aesthetics of the Characters. They were ALL bulky and had Muscles like Steroid FREAKS. Even characters who were supposed to be lean and mean looked like cheap Schwarzenegger copies. It immensely put me off.
The same Sako from Darkstalkers hood Sako combo?
Yep, the very same. Sakonoko. One of the 5 Japanese FGC gods
Yep. The same guy..he's pretty much the trailblazer of anything execution heavy in sf4 series . Did you know that desk credits sako before for his chunli lightning legs loops back then.
@@genmac2843 True. He also trained Daigo's Evil Ryu and gave him all the tech.
Sako might not be the guy that wins the most tournaments, but he's one hell of a scientist. Probably the best FGC scientist in the world
SFVs biggest problem is no content for the casual player and nothing flashy
Sako menat was amazing buff menat 🔥
Finally a 30 minute video on how the fixed SFV's biggest problem of Ken's Banana Hair
I just don't know how masters completely kill me on wake up all of the time, while I try to input a timed waked up and it doesn't always work
The Thumbnail = Beamthegamer confirmed?!?1
Now I'm only 8 min in, it sounds like you've made the factor that determines the skill level of the player is simply their ability to do combos. Surely I'm not understanding something or have t heard everything yet.
Nakayama is the game director since the beginning of SFV.
The "Season V" not being a thing was another lie as Rose and Oro were leaked the same time as Gill and Seth.
“Should this be doing this much damage”
No.
Over-tuning Luke hurt a lot of the goodwill season 5 had garnered. It’s still a good game. But weird choices like that hold it back IMHO.
None of that skill matters online when CFN decides your hit confirms and Executions mean squat for the day🥴....
The balancing act of rewarding highly motivated and dedicated skilled players without ostracizing casual players must be a nightmare for game creators. Without getting wildly creative, you risk diluting the investment of one base and over-rewarding the other. At the end of the day though, it's a question of design philosophy. I think FromSoft (Dark Souls) and Grinding Gear Games (Path of Exile) have found by catering to hardcore players what Nintendo has found by catering to more casual players: know what kind of games you make, and just make them. The trouble for games like Street Fighter, which has a 30 year history, is any shift in philosophy to appease a new player base is going to piss off a lot of your current player base. Same thing goes for Halo and Diablo. I don't envy their positions as game creators.
This is why I think SF6 is looking promising. More casual game modes, different controller input mechanics, and social areas make it appeal casually, but the gameplay seems rich and deep for more competitive folks. It could strike the goldilocks balance because of its creativity. Only time will tell.