JUNKYARD LS ACCESSORY TEST. FAN, PUMP & ALT- WHAT ARE THEY WORTH?
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- čas přidán 1. 08. 2024
- JUNKYARD 5.3L LS. WHAT ARE ACCESSORIES WORTH? How MUCH HP? WHAT about the FAN, water pump, PS OR ALTERNATOR? How much are headers worth? What about a tune or cold water? Is there any power in the air intake? WE TEST IT ALL IN THIS VIDEO!
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
This channel needs more recognition. Consistent uploads everyday for Christ sakes And impressive results.
The youtube algorithm is going to catch on here and this channel will be 100k a year from now...
Finn Balor
Amen!
For sure this guy is my favorite analytical motor tuning channel! He’s amazing! I’m actually building my 2014 gen 4 ls1 based off data here for the most part.
indeed
Facts 💯💯
This channel deserves more credit! The amount of time and effort this must have taken is unreal.
If you have ever read Hot Rod Magazine articles there's a fair chance you were reading his work.
@@jaydunbar7538 Or Popular Hot Rodding.
Just about any magazine about engines lol: Hot Rod, Super Chevy, Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords, and many more. I think he did a lot of stuff with imports back in the day as well but I may be mistaken.
@@trickmytrailer I'm not sure about the import stuff, but I always bought the Engine Masters magazines. He always had good articles in there. I'm sure I m one of the very few that wishes Engine Masters was still being published. Yes, I realize there is a video version of it but not the same to me.
The end of the magazine era breaks my heart.
Your killing it with content man.
You’re
My 96 Corvette LT-4 now makes 400 rwhp and 386 ft lbs, 52mm TB, big custom cam, long tubes, aluminum flywheel and electric water pump. Stock block, crank, heads and valves. 12.91@108mph not the greatest launch and slow into 3rd gear (synchros ain't in the best of shape). It's definitely capable of mid 12s and makes way over 100hp more than stock with only these very simple but well planned out mods...
New truck... Elec ps, elc fans, streighter air intake... Hmmm. Guess that's why they do it. Great video .. thanks Rich .. you need an Emmy.
24* peak timing is still way more than a stock gen3 5.3 has. The stock tune also has torque management neutering it. AFRs are a lot leaner as well because power enrichment in a stock truck tune is pretty much non-existent....which is why so little timing is used( and they STILL pull more timing due to knock🤦🏼♂️) I’d say if you ran that same 5.3 with all accessories on a stock pcm with stock tune on your engine dyno you’d be lucky to see 300hp.....maybe 310hp max on a really healthy gen 3 engine. An L33 with the factory flat tops may do a tiny bit better.
Nothing better than dyno pulls in the morning keep em coming rich
Like you said Richard no one thing has any dramatic effect.. but the sum of the whole is dramatic as you demonstrated! So thanks for that test.
Attention to the little things are collectively important when maximising a setup; and they do separate the winners from those trailing behind in many instances.
This is awesome! These are honest and real numbers. No restricted information like in a magazine, it’s pure input for people’s brain. I freaking love it 😆 thank you
It is awesome that you are doing these tests and answering these questions.
Oh my gosh Richard!! You have tested EVERYTHING !! i don't even know what to test next.. real world testing= holy crap.. THANK YOU !!!
So glad I found this channel!!! Love the mod motor content as there isn’t much new info on that motor coming out. Keep it up!
Very interesting. The gains are there. Was a time finding 5 to 10 hp was everything. Seems today it a drop in the bucket. I learn something new every time you post a video. Keep them coming. This is one of my top channels
The exhaust pipe/muffler flows enough to support stock to mild power. The biggest restriction in the stock stuff is the cats, and I’ve heard 10-20hp from a reputable local tuner based on the chassis dyno he’s used for about 20 years.
I know from my own 2002 5.3 truck that deleting the cats will wake up the exhaust more than anything, throttle response becomes noticeably sharper, exhaust note becomes louder with more crack. Also my personal experience is with that engine in a 6000lb truck that doesn't see a lot of full throttle, full length headers aren't worth it. Even with a Whipple supercharger at 6psi boost, they're not worth the underhood heat, plug wire issues, plug change headaches, eating starters, 4X4 clearance, so I'm going back to manifolds.
This is a great test to keep in mind when watching Richard's other dyno videos. The effect of all the accessories, fan, airbox, tune, and headers was worth 10% at peak torque and 13% at peak power.
I told a lot of these guys around here, when we used to go to dragstrip, that a alternator didn't cost much power as long as your battery is charged and in good shape
It is true, it's the booming stereo that causes the draw.
Jump on my request on the latest comment, I want to see high amp draw vs the factory accessory configuration. If we move the water to amp powered, and even a electric ac compressor... What then?
@@mikesmain I have not ever seen a 12 volt A/C compressor. Just the 300 ac volt A/C compressor used on gm hybrids. Would be worth seeing
Great info. Perfect way to start a Friday of a 3 day weekend here in Ontario!
For real
just wait til the weekend
Have a happy Family Day DG
@@richardholdener1727
Can you do a home made starlite exhaust extractor wrap test.
Would be very interesting content
Absolutely crushing it here. Quality content. Keep it up Richard!!!!
love what you're doing with this channel.
real world proof of stuff I'm generally interested in.
keep it up 👍🤘
Awesome video! This is stuff that I was always wondered. Thank you!
Last week on my Tahoe Z71 2004 5.3 ,i remove just cats, for the mpg is a big difference,and i feel the power difference.Very nice test again Richard ;)
Dude your the single most useful source of knowledge iv found
thnx-more on the way
The stock truck tune typically hits about 18-20° at WOT when Power Enrichment kicks in. It's delayed by 2 seconds until 5,000 RPM
On the edge of my seat jedi Holdner! Everything I was thinking you were explaining! PERFECT CONTENT! Where are you selling your merchandise?
Respect for the time you put in instead of just assuming.
Now this is great content. I love this channel.
Love your videos bud answering all my questions been binge watching like crazy thanks
Think everyone has had a theory and everyone has been curious as to actual figures so well done on what might appear as something basic turns out to be quite complex factually, keep it up were watching and waiting
Thanks for doing this, Confirms what I had been thinking all along...
Great job my brother keep the facts coming 👏
Another great video! Thank you for putting these out there!
Another very useful video. This will help with applying corrections directly to compare different rating methods or to make performance estimates.
Finally! Someone that shows real results!
Excellent video! Really helps to dispel the idea that accessories are total killers. Your testing format is actually very accurate IMO, because it shows exactly what the engine itself is doing at each phase without any other of the variables that are infinitely possible. Naysayers are always there, regardless. So TEST ON!!!!!
You should test the power steering hooked up to a rack making bypass pressure. I think you would loose another 10hp. In this configuration the ps pump was really just free spinning. With mild friction loss. The 10hp was likely almost all from the wp.
This video is simply amazing! Richard, I cannot mention it enough, your channel is awesome! Greatings from Germany
Thanks again!
This is a great channel, lots of good solid info.
The cooling fan will be worth 20 or even 30 HP when engaged, but if the engine temp is hot enough and the heat
load thru the radiator is enough to move the thermal spring the engine power will be down allready at this time due
to increased temperature load......If the engine has gotten this warm it needs brought back down, I feel if you can run at 160-170
the 10 hp from the factory fan is a real number you will get.
Great video Richard.
Definitive proof even just taking off the fan is worth a few hp! Thanks!
That's as real-world as it gets. Great stuff. If only this kind of info was available when I was a hot rodding kid.
Teaching me things I did not know and glad I watched
Don't forget to also count in SAE correction. Take all you see here and deduct another 5% or so.
This is really good to see how you get your 'happy dyno' numbers ;)
I understand why you test the way you test gives the most consistent results. However it's great to have a look how much power is taken up in the all accessories as this is how motors run in cars.
It’s also important to keep in mind that this still doesn’t account for drivetrain loss. So this same engine in your vehicle makes 13-18% less power at the wheels on a chassis dyno. 😉
Just take the cran hp numbers, -20-25 hp for alternator, water pump, and power steering. (most people run efans)
Then multiply that by 0.85 for approximate drivetrain loss.
If its making 400hp to the crank, then it's closer to 375-380 after accessories.
Multiply by drivetrain loss... and you're looking at 300-323 whp.
Should be pretty damn close.
I am from Ukraine we just do not have these cars, but I have gmc savana, 4.8 and for me this car is obviously the best in the world. Thank you for your videos now I know exactly how to make this car fun. By the way, a lot of things have already been done in terms of the sound of the seats of the cabin headlights. Also cold intake, increased exhaust gave acceleration to 100 kmh 12 seconds, but ahead of the installation. Thank you for your videos.
This video was awesome a lot was explained keep up the great work
I normally see the stock truck tune in the 99-04 5.3 trucks running in the 14.0:1 afr range until about 5500 rpm due to the huge power enrichment delay in the stock the. The timing is normally in the 20-22° range. Keep up the awesome work!
Well 14.68 but ya
@@james10739 very rarely do they actually run stoich at full throttle, if they do it's indicative of a bad MAF sensor
If the fan shroud is in place and the air restriction of the air being pulled through the radiator could see over 20hp. But as the speed of the vehicle increases the wind actually helps the fan get through the radiator.
When I removed my heavy buick 7 bladed clutch fan off my 455 the engine seemed to rev so much easier and smoother and quieter! I can here the engine sounds better... i can even hear the air being sucked into the engine above the dual flowmasters. It also seemed to pick up way more horsepower. It made for a better driving experience all around.
My 03 Tahoe 5.3 2wd stock tune commands 11.8:1 at WOT until 3200 rpm. After that it rapidly commands richer mixtures until it reaches a commanded 10:1 AFR (1.336 enrichment ratio) at 4800, then leans out a bit after that. And that doesn't even take into account any catalyst protection enrichment. Base timing, assuming no knock learning, is 15-17 deg (it actually rolls off hard above the torque peak, kinda the opposite of what you'd expect), but there is also an enrichment timing adder of 6-9 degrees depending on targeted enrichment ratio. It won't run those numbers on 87 octane because of knock though. When I tuned my vehicle at 100k miles it picked up about 25 whp just from leaning it out, adding timing and eliminating burst knock and torque management stuff. Still amazingly quick for an old horse (0-60 in 6.7 on dragy at 5400 lbs with me in it). Gonna drive it till it rusts away.
Great video as always. I would have guessed the drag from the fan should increase with RPM until the air starts to cavatate then become a constant. It's great that you are posting all of these videos. If someone gets ticked at the results they can grab their own camera, book a dyno session and instantly post a rebuttal. What an age we live in...
it might be different with a shroud pulling through rad
@@richardholdener1727 Yeah however it would likely disengage at about 2500 rpm like most clutch fans do. I think this test was comperable to that.
Keep up the great work!!!......always waiting for new vids!!!
16 degrees total from factory.
I picked up 10 hp on my lq4 6.0 from water Pump alone , to the tires on a dyno jet.
Great vids btw
Waterpump and fan are the two places I find it matters the most. A fan can easily rob 15-20 hp. up top. An electric fan takes maybe 2-2.5 hp on the alternator when it kicks in.
I love the way that all of your tests are very in-depth. I'd really like to see you do some chassis dyno stuff sometimes just to see maybe what stuff like fans and full exhaust could be worth.
CHECK OUT THE VIDEO ON A FULL EXHUAST AND THE ACCESSORIES
@@richardholdener1727 I'll search for it
Love the channel man! Keep the videos coming
Great test Richard! Been creating ways of doing some of this for a good while now.
Excellent comparison and so clearly presented!
Richard to me this was one of your best Videos... Great Job!!! I found almost 20 rwhp by removing a huge "Flex" fan!!! They KILL power big time!
yep-those r bad
Love this guy has the best vids
Nice to see new videos, keep them coming!
This is excellent thank you very much this the kind of stuff that everyone who can only afford so much stuff at once the power gains are down low in the rpm pulling trailers and stuff so this is real world to a working truck
Really good video. These things do make a difference at the track. On a mostly stock foxbody. Things like this was the difference between running 13s to 14s or 13s to 12s.
Many of us that raced a foxbody back in the 90s at some point ran a short belt and electric fan if they understood the difference it made. With that and a few basic bolt on's like exhaust, pulleys, timing, gears and a tire. We ran 12s all day with the stock cam, intake, TB, etc. Yes that's with a 5sp. Low 13s with a stock AOD and converter but the AOD was a hp thief.
The biggest mistake people make is the combination of parts. I'd see a guy with a stock motor but install a 75mm TB and couldn't expect that was the reason he went slower. Same thing when guys go to the track and run 100-116 octane race fuel on a basically stock N/A engine. Doesn't do shit for that stock motor. The right combination is everything and every little bit in the right direction helps ET and Mph.
Again really enjoyed this video. Brought back some good memories lol. When I think back. It was more fun running 9s or slower than the stress and cost of 7s and faster. Although a hard stressful day at the track is still better than a hard stressful day at work any day.
i still have my 1988 5.0L LX-original owner
One point about the fan at the end, I believe it's been proven elsewhere that the biggest improvement to drag is removing the shroud because the fan doesn't funnel the air and create the same drag if it has no housing. Just a thought!
Thanks for showing each step, I've always wondered what the numbers would look like if you ran full accessory drives.
Richard is my hero!
Great test👍
Naturally aspirated gains are expensive and time consuming. Thanx for this video.
The only thing I disagree with here, is the open throttle body we all know in a real world hot engine bay situation that is going to cause crazy high IATs and lose power. The fan clutch situation yielded a much higher result than I expected as well. Great content Richard!
More useful information for us home gamers . Thanks for your efforts .
Huge fan lol 😂 keep up the good work can’t wait to buy one of your cams
Excellent info, thanks
Excellent video
Thanks
I’d love to see you do a “poor mans race accessory” setup in that same engine. Cone filter, no fan, headers, and only accessories are water pump and alternator. It’s pretty common to ditch the clutch fan, power steering, and ac on a budget “racecar” so it would be interesting to see what that setup netted power wise since it’s probably the single most common setup when building a budget racer.
didn't we just show that
Not that specific combo brother.
Great comparison thanks
I swapped my factory clutched fan for a flex a lite electric fan kit on my 04-5.4L F150 and picked up 2mpg on the highway, it revved much quicker and the a/c worked way better.
Very nice real world example. Certainly clarifies why your initial pulls are so much higher than the OEM's ratings and shows how much power stock trim really eats.
The factory is not tested with all that on it. They actually have the practice of only pulling lower rpm. This is for cheaper insurance rates in the 70s. And it never went away.
Great video , I'd like to see some more naturally aspirated LS builds!
Richard, thanks for all the reliable information you provide. I found the video really interesting and have thought about the parameters you mention as you tuned the engine. Something that stuck in my mind is how the dyno cell can control coolant temp, which I understand can make a difference in power output. Any chance of you making a video that discusses that? Lots of keyboard warriors discuss the relative merits of engine vs chassis dyno, for different brands of chassis dynos, even including hub dynos. Could you do a video on dynos, types, etc? Maybe even a video for first timers, what to expect, what to bring, etc.
You're a true science man
A 100% stock tune will be near stoich until power enrichment comes in (5500 rpm and wot for more than 1 second), then it drops to 10.5-11.0 afr. The stock timing is typically 15-22° depending on the stock file and some of the parameters in the adder tables.
Any chance of seeing Any magnum builds , 5.9 Ideas for Maintaining durability with adding 100 horse Or more ..
Love all your hard work and all the work of filming I can’t imagine the long nights tuning it’s great to see such concise work .. awesome channel
I'm going to refer anyone that over inflates their stock
truck's hp numbers here! love it
The fan without the rad in front of it would have been drawing a little more air, which takes more power. It wouldn't be much. Great ideas 👍👍
Thanks, great video and explanation.
Love this video
I am so jealous of this guy.....to have a dyno in my toolbox would be fantastic!!!!
Awesome video!
I love your videos. Thanks you for all the graphs and time on the Dyno. I watch all your videos while I’m doing cardio at the gym. Did you ever think of creating a website to represent all your test results in some kind of interactive program to pick the parts you have and show the power levels?
Thanks you’re the man, I been a fan of yours since way before you did the Silver State Classic for Fast Fords & Muscle Mustangs, I absolutely love a car that handles great !
Ps:
Ever since I first started driving, I have definitely been wondering how much power the stock mechanical/clutch fan robs from the engine
(I kinda figured 15 - 35 HP depending)
during a full throttle rip, please answer this question for us all.
Thanks
Awesome content!
Every one of these you do makes me kick myself for selling my old truck.
This is a very Cool Episode 🤙
Thanks for sharing. You're a stone cold badass sir!
I think people get too caught up in the actual numbers and forget it's all relative. Even with all the accessories, it's still not "realistic" cause you're still missing the drivetrain loss and tire size.
Dyno testing is more about keeping your variables as constant as possible to see the affects of a single change.
Exactly....People forget all the variables and think their 5.3 is making 500hp with a cam swap.
love your channel!
Great work 🤘
Great stuff! Great info!
Great video Richard, I believe Friedberg did a video on fans before he hid behind a paywall. I remember the old 4 blade steel fan stole 25hp or there abouts. Great to see Hands Holdener is back
They also tested the affects through a radiator and shroud...surprising amount of HP hidden there. I would say there is no need for Holdener to do that test, unless you didn’t see that engine master’s episode and don’t want to pay Discovery for the privilege of being able to.
That’s the same dyno cell, I’m sure he was present. He is engine wizard, beyond master lol
@Nickolas White, I was actually wondering about that...Westech seems like it’s the place to be!
those were bad
westech is the place for me
Great informative info!
I have said it for years it's all about optimization. Lots of little things can get you a big thing later.
Thanks..
Great video..
Removing the fan and going electric does make a noticable difference. I have experienced this first hand. Feels more willing to rev quicker.
Great Work Richard and along the sames lines I would love to see you measure the coolant flow you are getting out of that electric pump. I'm betting its far less than what they rate it at.
The factory tune In hp tuners has 10 degrees of peak timing in the low octane table and 15 in the high octane spark table. Also power enrichment is basically off. It has to be above 5000 rpm for 60 seconds to activate. A tune is worth 25-30hp on a stock gen 3 truck motor.
Nice test as usual.
One thing, the fan robs less power without the radiator, the radiator causes more drag to the fan in high revs.
I dont know how significt it is on that engine but on Audi and Mercedes, old Cars with a modern tune sometimes you are around 15hp on some situations.