Lead Acid vs LIPO for PCB Spot Welding
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- čas přidán 7. 10. 2023
- I test a 800CCA lead acid versus my 5200mah 3S Lipo. Both are capable of excellent spot welds but the lead acid does seem to hit harder at lower settings. The XT60 on the Lipo may be limited the Lipo, but either way at then end both are great at spot welding.
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I’ve actually been using an old Lead Acid battery from day one, and find it more than capable for spot welding. Thank you for reaffirming what I already knew!
I played with the delay using lead acid and if you change the delay to get 3 hits over a second the FETS will blow! Keep all three at the same delay!
As always another great video. I use a lead acid battery, to deal with the heat I feed my spot welder with 3 # 10 wire for the negative, I made a #6 wire lead to weld with and a #6 wire lead back to the positive, I use a #10 (I think #10 is overkill) wire to from the positive to the positive on the spot welder. This combination really helped with the heat. Thank You for all of these great videos you have done
That the confirmation I needed that lead acid is the best. Thanks for your video
What a excellent video as always,always makes my day when I see a new video from here🎉
Do you know of a place or have some of the pace bms linking connectors between the main bms and the communication board with all the leds etc
I have used a similar Arduino based spot welder for about 4 years to create replacement Liion battery packs for cordless drills. I usually make a dozzen or so every few months using 2, 5200mAh 100C, 3S LiPo packs but I the packs have suffered from puffing (probably due to the heating effect from the large instant current draw around 600A) and I was about to get a new set when I came across a super capacitor version that I will give a try. In my opinion the more robust chemistry of the lead acid lends itself better to this purpose but would welcome other opinions.
I hacked the oldest model (12v spot welder v5.6) using your wall wart method, since any 3s lipo didn't work, I upgraded all wires to 8AWG, now with the wall wart powering the board, I'm now attempting 4s 12Ah Lipo pack, (only negative goes through the MOSFETs), so far I can easily weld 0.2 pure nickel, If it doesn't work, will even try 6s with appropriate cooling/heatsink, Thanks a lot for the idea man!
Interesting 👍
Thank you for making this video. In trying to understand Ohms law, if I could have seen the current draw using a DC clamp meter it may have helped me. That is to say; if the voltage and load are equal for each battery, then the current draw should be the same, no? If the current is different from one case to the next case, then voltage or resistance must have changed. I am buying a JQ-DHJ for my first attempt at spot welding. I have a 230Ah LiFePO4 battery with a continuous discharge rate of 200A and a max discharge rate of 400A for 5 seconds. The JQ specs say it supports a range of 100A to 900A. I will review your video on the JQ in an attempt better understand how to manage the Amps. Thanks again for making this video.
I'd imagine voltage drop would be a lot lower on the lead acid battery. If you put enough cells in parallel then LiPo might do the same at the same settings. It's nice that LiPo's can discharge so much current for their size because of the lower internal resistance. Like you said, if you already have one battery set up and working then it isn't worth the money to switch to the other. Thanks for the video!
Good video! Did you notice how the cables jumped when making those welds ? I remember from back in the 1970s, using an industrial spot welder how much those thick cables jumped. Cables for a workstation should be anchored in some way near the battery (or other power source) so that they don't strain the connections every time a weld is made.
So many variables but I think that lead acid battery probably has lower IR than the Lipo.
But add to that the tiny wires coming off the Lipo pack (wish they'd all switch to 10AWG or 8AWG for the big boy packs). Yes, you're right about the connections as well. Just adding a lot of resistance.
I think its about time you start trying some copper nickel sandwich since you now have that lead acid battery that could probably do 0.1mm copper + 0.1mm nickel...and probably 0.15mm copper instead of 0.10mm.
Part of me wants to try out this new board but I'm overall pretty happy with my JQ besides the fact that I blew up my first one trying to parallel two very low resistance LiFePO4 packs.
Or replace the fets on the JQ...didn't' work when I replaced them after blowing up my first one but there might have been something else in the circuit that was a problem? I also theorized that perhaps using fets with too low RDS on might be a problem. Not sure if there's anything in the circuit that is looking for a certain RDS on for the fets as I've seen the other popular spot welding guy on CZcams take the purple board and put IRL40SC209's on it and he's spot welding copper nickel sandwich thicker than something straight out of a NYC deli
The start Delay needs increasing when you're initially placed cables on because it's immediately trying to pulse the moment you out them on it, causing miss welds at the start sometimes (but don't change the in-between pulses as it can blow up the pluser if you set them to far apart)
Make sure using basic eye protection as it can sometime explode molten metal when it strikes (as it happened I believe twice in this video)
I have welded broken car parts off a 12V battery (in emergency situations) in the past without any circuit boards, just some welding cable, a welding rod and a ground, Looking at the way you have shown it wired here I wonder if it is the battery doing the welding via parallel path to your apparatus and much of the current is just ignoring your little circuit board thingie.
After using this spot welder. Have you figured out how to set it up for the best welds. Do you recommend this spot welder for 0.2 nichel. I'm looking to use copper bus bars with nichel spot weld tabs.
I ordered that board - should get it by New Yeart's. I think I'll use my 10,000 ma power bank to see if it works with that. It has a 5vdc output. I don't know if the welder will work on that low voltage. Lead-acid car batteries are specifically designed to provide few hundred amps through low resistance loads ifor short duration - as in starting a car. Deep cycle lead-acid batteries are specifically designed to provide lower current over a long duration - as in golf carts. LiPo can do both.
uhhhh powerbanks absolutely won't work. That 5V output is probably rated for 2.4A or 3A
The cells in that powerbank are definitely not power cells.
I'm planning on using 18V power tools battery, I have 4Ah 5S2P packs, reckon it will work fine or trip the BMS? They are 20C-25C cells iirc, so only 40-50A??
can you try welding copper nickel sandwitch? I'm curious if it can manage to weld it just as well as kweld does
Can’t really go wrong with lead acid. The millisecond short-circuit weld durations are likely a fairly light duty task for a battery that’s designed to provide several hundred amps for up to 30secs, even in cold temps. If the size and weight isn’t a problem, they seem like the most cost-effective option. I’ve been using a 35ah starting battery without issue for quite a while now.
More recently I’ve been using a 4s headway (lifepo4) pack for the portability. I made a very short connector that bends 90deg so the welder sits on top of the pack. (batteries are horizontal) Its worked well without issue. It’s worth noting that the short 8gage connector probably wouldn’t be a good idea for lead acid, because the large available amount of current would probably be too much for the welder without the resistance of the stock-length connecting cables to limit it. The headways have a lower current rating of 200a (which is likely still overrated) so the short connector doesn’t cause overcurrent issues. In reality the headways probably do around ~130a, and do sag which is important to know because some spot weld pcb’s have crappy drive-circuitry & no hold-up capacitor/diode which will usually cause smoked fets quickly if used with a battery that sags at all.
Are they the Headways from BatteryHookup? I got mine off Ebay and despite being 2015 cells that only give me 8050mAh at a 1C discharge rate they all have an AC IR of 1.9mR. I accidentally sent one reverse polarity so instead of a 4S2P pack I'm working with a 3S2P when I'm not using one of my A123 4S8P packs.
@@ericklein5097 Yeah, the ones i’m using are the used ones from BH. Recently I ordered a few more, and they aren’t quite performing as I’d have hoped. They’ve got between 6-7ah at 1C, but the pulse current is underwhelming. I haven’t tried new ones from ebay yet, which I should do sometime if budget allows. And actually since you’ve got some, do you feel that the new ones preform up to the pulse rating? If so I’ll probably try to pick up a few, since I’ve already got excess busbars and spacers etc for them already.
edit: You may mean the ones from BH ebay store, which if that’s the case, is pretty good. They are used cells, so results will understandably vary.
Goldilocks situation, one smallish one a bit too big with the power 🔋 source. Good test video thumbs-up
Dual Pulse welders use a shorter first pulse to clean the weld area and heat it up so the second pulse (which is typically significantly more than the first) has a clean slate to work off of and the voltage drop shouldn't be too significant that it affects the second pulse
How would you set up the different SEGs . I'm looking to purchase this spot welder. I have used the self-contained ones and have been disappointed.
Thanks for any insight.
@@noce1071 no clue how to set up this PCB welder. I use the JQ-DHJ02B and I am VERY happy with it.
Honestly most of the PCB welders are decent just look at the fets on it and read their datasheet. Then look at how well the traces can transfer current through the board and the fets. This one has massive bus bars which I'm sure is what makes it stellar but the JQ is damn good too. Probably capable of 0.30mm pure nickel if you can max it out without going over power. The settings on the JQ seems strange but its really easy the instructions just suck. The JQ is just doing an IR test of your pack by asking the Ah size and the C rate.
Your power source (battery, capacitors, whatever) are 99% of your spot welds. You MUST get VERY LOW IR batteries. A123, Headway, high CCA AGM, GOOD Lipos (that market is a shitshow), or supercapacitors.
@@noce1071on his video reviewing this spit welder in the comments a guy tells exactly how to set it up
three months have already passed, have you been able to find a solution to increase the time between the moment you place the tips and the moment the soldering is done because I find that the delay is much too short, it's not well… Did you find the solution?
cool i just orderd the same welder, was actually looking for a video about it and couldnt find anything so just settled on clicking on this one and whaddya know its the welder i was wondering about. Nice tests, its called 18650 Lithium SpotWelder but reading the descriptin it says all the different battery options you can use with it and what to watch out for. I plan to use it with lead acid myself. But it also says you can use 2x 2.7v 3000f super caps in series, that woulud be interesting to see, and whats the point of using super caps? The 3000f ones i found are huge so not much space saving over lithium, probably just more power? Not like this welder needs it,but who knows maybe you can weld a bike frame together after you welder your batteries? jk
czcams.com/video/RxXUVdXDxok/video.htmlsi=5RYWVvtq5ZSwA0jU
watch this diy battery for your spotwelder
Ignoring the mass of the batteries, I would go with the lead acid. Simply, lead acid likes to stored fully charged when not used and extends the life of it. But storing the lipo fully charged decreases the life of the lipo battery.
If you are using 4s lipo battery; the user manual already requires it to be below 16v. You can charge it in storage mode and put it on standby for a long time. It is like 15.4V.
To make punto, it must be less than 16V. You start directly with the storage mode voltage. When the punto is finished, it returns to storage mode, so you can store it for a long time...
(I use 4S 5000 mah 50C lipo battery, like this. It was a battery I used for my drone. :) )
@@cetinkaya4436 Lithium batteries are dangerous in anyways. They do not like to be shorted. I'd prefer lead acid to lithium to be on the safe side. Nevertheless, it is a matter of choice.
@@s3rkanAGA
If the aim is to create an energy source from lithium ion batteries, I must say that li-ion batteries are more dangerous than lipo batteries in spot welding. :) Because Li-ion batteries have a high risk of explosion. Lipo batteries are only flammable and do not explode. :)
Additionally, there is no danger if lipo batteries are stored in appropriate storage equipment.
Since it is flammable, it cannot burn in an airless, oxygen-free environment...
But of course, as you say, this is a matter of preference.
The most reliable battery regarding this risk is lifepo4 batteries. However, they also have a weight handicap. That's why they are not preferred everywhere. Due to their size and the fact that less energy can be stored.
But usage (charge-discharge) cycles are very high. So their lifespan is long.
I have a 45AH with 400A would that work too ?
I think a higher end lipo would provide better than lead acid results. Something like a 4s 10Ah 120c. with 8awg or thicker wires from the lipo, wired directly to the board instead of using connectors.
Not really, Lipos are made very different to Kead Acid. Lead Acid peak much better than Lipo but Lipo can maintain the current much better.
Can lithium ion rated 3c of 80ah be use to power spot welder?
Yes. 3c x 80a is 240 amps. Should be enough
Change delays
What Lipo do you use? I just bought a spot welder And i would like to know what Lipo to buy
3s 80c lipo
@@stevenc22 thanks
No link to board?
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Hey mate havent seen a video for a bit, you doing alright?
All good. Just busy with work 👍
@@stevenc22 gotcha thanks for the reply
what will happen if you use a 12v 200Ah battery!
Should be enough
@@stevenc22 will the big capacity break the board ?
@@maissanelmohtar9903 no the size of the wires will naturally limit the amount of current used by the board
Connect the controller to a separate power supply and you will have a much better welding machine.
Why? If there is a cap in the circuit to hold up the gate voltage its not necessary
@@ericklein5097 Because there will be no voltage drop.
Yup a 12v 1-2a wall wart should do the job and keep the fets from sticking open and blowing
the lipo is 11 volts and the lead acid is 13 volts. thats the difference
The amps is more important than the voltage.
@@stevenc22
Yes, discharge current...
The voltage should not be greater than 16v, it is important...