The Golden Age Marvel Superhero Who Worked for the Devil
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- čas přidán 26. 08. 2024
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Back in 1940, Marvel Comics was known as Timely Comics and created a number of memorable superheroes: Captain America, Human Torch, Namor the Sub-Mariner. They also had their fair share of forgotten weirdos like Moon Man, the Thin Man and today's subject, The Black Widow. This wasn't like the popular Avenger, but rather was a lady named Claire Voyant who ends up working directly for the devil. This video looks at the first costumed and superpowered female superhero to figure out: why didn't the character take off?
I have recently become obsessed with this channel.
the golden age comic youtuber crossover we need
right!? me too'
*chanting begins* CO! LAB! CO! LAB! CO! LAB!
Do a golden age collaboration, give him a cameo in the movie! Do it coward!
It's so weird to see two channels I follow suddenly interact. Worlds are colliding!
I'm honestly glad somebody finally touched upon The Twelve comic. That one deserves to be continued
Yes! I really enjoyed that series as well.
It’s good!
I never finished this. Now I want to.
IIRC, Weston had to finish it himself years late due to JMS returning to television and just dropping the book.
I thought the end was rather weak and obvious, though I don't blame Weston - he's an artist not a writer, he did the best he could (the art was always stunning).
What was most obnoxious was JMS blowing up the expectations for the book as Marvel's "Watchmen" only to bail out as soon as Hollywood came calling.
@@ComicTropes so glad you highly agree Chris! Hope they do eventually return to this story
Now that's a character I'd love to adapt from the Golden Age. There's a great potential for conflict in her service to Old Scratch and the humanity she's been forced to lose.
She'd fit right in the Marvel/Netflix lineup, I think
Also, WHICH devil is she pledged to? There are several in the Marvel Universe, and her’s is more the ‘punish the wicked,’ rather than ‘do evil for the lolz!’ Type, so it AIN’T Mephisto.
Also, WHICH devil is she pledged to? There are several in the Marvel Universe, and her’s is more the ‘punish the wicked,’ rather than ‘do evil for the lolz!’ Type, so it AIN’T Mephisto.
@@jonbodhi It would be cool if she was pledged to a rival Hell Lord who's a rival to Mephisto. That way they could bring her in as a rival/villain of Ghost Rider. Maybe have more "Widows" through time. That first guy she kills could have been a potential Ghost Rider and she was taking out the competition before they got started.
@@UJEvans no tv show. We are talking about comic characters
She's one of my favorite characters on the mobile game Marvel Contest of Champions. It's so cool to learn the history of this unique hero.
I came here to say this. I thought she was another red room assassin until I saw this video just now.
This is like taking college level courses on comic book history. Thank you Chris!
These Golden Age Episodes are my favorite ones on the channel.. always something funny yet interesting
The depth and quality of Chris's content is unparalleled. Thank you for putting in such amazing effort!
Thanks for doing this video! I had no idea there was a golden age Black Widow.
This was great! I love hearing about these obscure (to me at least) Golden Age characters. Thanks, Chris!
06:23 looks awesome. Shame they haven`t kept that psychedelic style.
Very interesting! I first became aware of the Claire Voyant Black Widow when she was added as a character in the Marvel Contest of Champions mobile game. Really cool to learn more about her. I'll definitely have to check out The Twelve.
I love the Twelve series.I am a major fan of Golden Age characters.
I'm getting some Phantoma vibes from her. Inconsistent powers bordering on omnipotence, as well as gruesome ends to villains. Not quite as bonkers as Fletcher Hanks, but it still surprises me that early superheroines were so goddamn terrifying, when the average superhero of the time just fought crime with a righeous left hook and a cocky one-liner.
I love your episodes on obscure superheroes. I’m surprised Black Widow never cameoed for Ghost Rider considering Marvel owns both characters.
Hilarious.
But also a bit sad? So much potential that they just didn't do anything with.
First, working for the Devil is a great source of conflict. Obviously you aren't going to be a paragon of virtue, but it should still be true that there's some kind of difference between how bad the devil wants you to be, and how bad you're actually okay with being yourself. But he really has the power in that relationship and you have to follow the protocol. Or do you? If you disobey, what are they gonna do - send you to hell? Spawn and Ghostrider both struggle with that, although arguably not to its full potential... But this comic: nothing.
Second, how bad a person were you actually when you were alive? Pretty bad probably, since the devil headhunted you for this job. But ... does that mean you'll always be that bad? Will character development ensue, making you a less damnable person? Or maybe ... a worse person? Could you maybe even argue that you are doing a good thing, punishing people who deserve to go to hell asap? A premise that really lends itself to be challenged going up against people who get condemned for different reasons. Imagine this character against someone like Dr Freeze... Again, they don't even go into what this black widow think about doing her thing. Warm fuzzies, angst, or workmanlike satisfaction - we have no idea.
Finally, the whole medium thing. Was she a real one, or a fraud? Did she use her profession to actually get people in touch with the dead, or did she bamboozle them? Did she hurt people unintentionally? Or intentionally? Or did she actually help a lot of people but still got sent to hell, because "doing magic is forbidden"? What does she think now, as a superpowered agent of hell, about her old job? I love how The Mentalist put the protagonist up against a lot of his old "collegues", this premise could have taken that and run with.
Aw... Now I wanna read a good comic based on this character. Bummer.
As always, thanks for a fun and interesting video!
I think the problem with this is the conflicted concept of 'the devil.' Is he the source of all evil or a red guy in a hot cave? He actually originates in Semitic theology as the Prosecutor against humanity in the Court of God. Over time, the concept of Satan morphed into a near-manichean Source of All Evil, a hopeless challenger against omnipotent God, and basically the guy who everything bad is his fault. This version is pure hatred and malevolence, and has near-unlimited power when he's not held at bay by God. Then later this concept was fused with pagan elements of Pan and Satyrs, and that's where he acquires his red skin, goatee, and goat legs. Satyrs were not pure evil, nor were they near-omnipotent. They were big fans of music and sex, and after this fusion, the satan concept becomes a very confused figure that enjoys luxuries but also torture, lives in a burning cave, and is basically half goat and half genie. It's never really clear if this figure is ultimate evil or a sort of cruel prankster. For instance, who is more imposing, the Devil or Cthulhu?
I know this is already a ghost rider thing but I have a feeling that she should work for Mephisto rather than the actual Satan.
@@martingabriela.libunao7172 Yeah. And if some nerd ever calls her in it in world, she can answer ”Bah, semantics!”
@@martingabriela.libunao7172 there are a bunch of "Satans° in the Marvel universe, Damien Hellstrom was literally the son of satan, but they all got turned into rulers of hellish afterlifes so yeah Mephisto but also Satanish and some others.
But the devil was odd too, was he characterised as the source of evil or the warden of hell and punisher of the wicked. It may seem like the former since he seemed to be a fairly standard western devil, but what does he do that is so evil other than kill that poor family?
I just read the part of Dante's inferno that depicts the "The Wood of the Self-Murderers." I think, too, that this character had potential! Cool episode.
This character apears in the mobile game "Marvel Contest of Champions"...didn't knew anything about it since watching this video. Thanks!!!
Chris, I don’t always remember to comment, but I just have to say that your humor and pacing are absolutely spot on here. It feels like you’ve really hit your stride and I’m so happy to see it.
I'm a little surprised this version wasn't brought back in the 70's. Satanism and The Occult were huge in that era. She would have fit in nicely with Hellstorm, Satana, and Ghost Rider, all of whom had similar sinister satanic ties...
Thank you for mentioning that 12 issue Series about a group of time displace heroes from Marvel Comics golden age. In this story black widow was more fleshed out and was even given a love interest that made her seem more like a real person than a quickly thought of bizarre idea. What was cool about this story was that her original costume from her first appearance was highlighted as a permanent outfit which according to this video was her best look. I agree and thank you for this video and I look forward to the next one.
The Twelve was a pretty cool comic: interesting story/great art. I was disappointed when Straczynski stopped working on it but I saved the first 8 issues and was pleasantly surprised when years later the series resumed and finished. (I hope that Uber Invasion has that same pay-off someday). I enjoy your videos about obscure characters btw keep it up!
He seems like a very basic version of The Spectre of DC Comics but working directly to the devil instead of " god's wrath". I was surprised that she was brought back in more recent comics and at that time wouldn't it mean that she was working for Mephisto?
Also the renewal of her character in The silver age (with just the name intact)was that the classic move to bring up again the concept of a golden age character just to keep the name basically?
It may sound odd, but many Spiritualists and "mediums" did not think of their seances as magical or as being "witchcraft" related--rather, they were quick to argue that Spiritualism was an empirical, scientific process. Although this comic was published decades after the Spiritualism revival of the early 20th century, it actually wouldn't be that surprising for someone taking in a seance during this period to be put off or even offended if they believed the medium was trying to invoke supernatural agency rather than her own (presumably inborn) psychic sensitivities--indeed, you can still meet these sorts of people today.
Interesting bit of trivia.
True. It was also not unusual for people to go to a performance of a seance as if goung to a movie, so the guy who thought it was a fraud being there is not that incongruent with those times
It's interesting that the comparison you go to right away is Spawn. Which is a fair comparison for sure, but a more interesting contrast might be to Ghost Rider who had a similar origin with the twist that he voluntarily entered into a contract with Satan (later revealed to be Mephisto) and was tricked into becoming the Devil's super powered agent.
I also think an interesting contemporary contrast for the original Black Widow would be The Spectre over at DC, who debuted about six months before she did. Yes, he served God and not The Devil, but his stories had a very similar sort of structure of "go find this evil doer and mete out divine punishment using your incredible but vaguely defined super powers." The Spectre comics are much better of course, but one can't help but wonder if they helped inspire the Black Widow character over at Timely...
Sometimes we just need the weirdness of the golden age characters. Keep up the good work!
I love the deep dives, but these lighter episodes looking into quirkier characters are always welcome.
she'd be a cool cameo in the new Dr Strange movie
I’ve read that comic you mentioned: The Twelve.
I had no idea what to expect but I was blown away! What a fantastic story.
I absolutely adore these videos on lesser known Golden Age comics! Please keep them coming as well as the in depth looks at individual creators. Gives the channel a wonderful balance.
I'd love to see a tribute video about Neal Adams. He wasn't the most personable artist for fans but he was the best of his era for realistic rendering. A great one.
Moving out of college after finishing my first year. This video is a good thing to relax and learn to.
The expression on Claire's face as she utters the curse while the Devil whispers in her ear is priceless.
Maybe it was "Contest of Champions" or one of these free-to-play Marvel mobile games, but they had Claire Voyant/Black Widow in that game, with her own story line and all. In any case, she still has a fair presence in the modern world. I hope they use her more in various media. Fun episode, I dig it!
Satan's smart outfit appears to be his birthday suit and a similar psychedelic cape
Your golden age comic series are my favorite, I love these zany off the wall characters. It would be cool if you did some that were popular at the time but fell off after a few years, but anything you do is awesome
Wow, this may be the most interesting look at a golden age character for me. I adore the style of the first appearance and wish she didn't share a name with a more famous Marvel character. We may get to see more of her now otherwise.
Great stuff as always! Thanks!
Am I the only one that buys comics because Chris has talked about them? I have just ordered The Twelve off Amazon.
I loooooove it when you comment on Golden and Silver Age comics. Thank you.
Another Spawn parallel: both have awesome flowing capes.
I've always wanted Marvel to do more with their Golden Age characters. Like The Angel who was in the first comic of theirs alongside The Human Torch and Namor
The 1930's Angel has been used, and they later revealed that there were two of them, brothers in some conflict. One became a subway angel, protecting the homeless. The other was a bit of a jerk, allowing himself to be used a false front by Red Skull for the 'mastermind' behind the Scourge Of The Underworld.
This was better than I expected. Thanks Chris!
Neal Adams 😢
I’m fairly certain that Marvel green lit the TWELVE specifically to reinvigorate some old intellectual properties and own some more copyrights. It also seems to be a piggyback to the success of JSA over at DC. Funny how the back story of the twelve have the same exact back story of Captain America. Another great episode Chris, I really do like you highlighting the old stuff from the 40’s.
I just picked up the Strazynski run thanks to this video. I'm intrigued!!
Just read all of the twelve thanks to this. Pretty good story.
I've watched this three times and i gotta say that this character really interest me.I guess because it's so strange.Thanks.
I hope for these every time I check your channel! I love when you do the golden age comics
I was unaware of this Black Widow. I think, with a good writer and a slight reworking, she could be a great character. She needs some weakness (like an aversion to holy symbols and/or places of worship) to make her tasks more interesting and ,as Chris said, some internal conflict for opportunity to grow. Her mythology could be really interesting.
Your episode on variant covers got a plug from Ed P in the CK ep about Trencher. Congrats!
This is why I love your channel. You always introduce me to new things I've never knew about in comic books!
Chris: For a character to take off you need a strong supporting cast.
Satan: …
I really recommend checking out The Twelve, it's a pretty solid comic from JMS that featured her and other classic heroes.
I’m glad this channel is doing well. It’s so good 👏🏻😁
I don't know if anyone told you yet but Jim Rugg gave your variant cover video a shoutout in yesterday's Cartoonist Kayfabe 'Trencher' video! Keep up the great work!
These are my kind of stories. I would like to have seen more.
Really enjoyed the Twelve (when they finally finished it!) and their use of Black Widow. Knowing her from that is what got me watching this, and was pleased to see the reference to the Twelve!
I started watching when you were still doing comic trope flashcards (i think you had like 12k subscribers when i first found you) , and now MrSundayMovies and Austin McConnell are talking about you so im excited to see your growth
Best video in awhile the history stuff is my fav. Really looking forward to this dropping so happy this can help so many people who are thinkin of subbin, love the quality and content of everything you do please keep up the great work. I’ve been on this platform for 15 years so I don’t take subbing lightly, but you’re by far the best content creator I’ve come across. Been here lurking since tropes 30 and subbed for 50 or definitely whatever I saw as milestone worthy. Always am completely impressed by the fact you have such consistent content. Ik this will be buried soon anyway….. kinda hopin, but seriously Chris couldn’t be happier with some of the more recent turn on the channel ❤❤❤thanks
The Tweleve was such a fantastic maxi series. I wish it would get a sequel to catch up with these characters again.
The Twelve was really great.
Makes you wonder why she bothered even getting a job as their secretary if she was just going to walk over to them and kill them instantly. I love these old golden age comics, though. They are so unpredictable and zany. I feel like the story is also a bit similar to Ghost Rider, where Mephisto tricks Johnny into working for him.
Sunday morning and...a comic troopes video!!
Educational and entertaining as always! I agree this character has more potential to be compelling than many we have forgotten from that era.
I live for your Golden Age videos, Chris!
Great video chris
PS: love the boba fett hoodie
I love learning about these obscure characters!
The Twelve is a great series. Chris Weston is under appreciated. The character designs modernizing these golden age classic are top-notch.
You've got a point with the similarity in concept with Spawn, but there was another property that it reminded me of, one that also did not have a long life on the stands: Atlas/Seaboard's The Grim Ghost.
I think with a modern version with all the advances of comics in every way this original Black Widow could be an amazing character - 7/11 also sounds like an amazing character!!
I love your videos about Golden Age comics! They are the best!
The concept certainly has potential, just like Ghost Rider and Spawn, how does a literal deal with the devil pan out? Could Black Widow defy the devil, perhaps as revenge for killing her? Her alternate costumes aren't awful, I think the black suit with the red cape and the flaming boots isn't bad, but you certainly can't randomly switch to another costume, and definitely never EVERY SINGLE APPEARANCE! And she switches comics! No wonder she didn't take off!
Figure out some devilish weaknesses that victims can try and exploit to create dramatic tension. Maybe give her an impish familiar to bounce off of, maybe she meets a family member of hers who knows she's dead, how does she deal with that, tighten up her suite of abilities, maybe the devil gives her some stipulations about taking certain souls, and I think you'd have a much more interesting comic.
I'm a little surprised that the Golden Age Black Widow didn't acquire a new sobriquet when she returned in modern times, to avoid confusion with the Russian Black Widows.
She could have been called Spider Kiss, or Kiss of Death, or Succubus, or Arachne, or used any number of other names that turned on her origins and powers.
I always enjoy your looks into weird Golden and Silver Age heroes. Love your work!
Great video! I love your Golden Age wackiness videos.
For some reason, Timely's Golden Age character The Angel has always interested me. Another case of wasted potential, I think. Plus, he's got a suave mustache that for some reason doesn't give away his secret identity!
I think he was a costumed version of the movie character the Falcon.
@@davidmcmahon4633 And The Falcon was intended to replace the Saint movie series by RKO. George Sanders even played in both Saint and Falcon movies!
the cool The twelve miniseries from modern Marvel!
Thanks for a really interesting spotlight on a Golden Age heroine. One issue I had with the Twelve (an otherwise great miniseries) was the lack of any source material for the characters. I had no idea who the Black Widow or The Blue Blade were, and that would have helped. This episode gave some much need background.
Fantastic as always, Chris!
First time commenting. Really really love your channel, I support your efforts and passion and thank you for working so hard to share with people! I thought I knew about and had a love for comics before but you’ve exponentially increased my appreciation for an art and storytelling medium I’ve had a lifetime love for.
I see Usagi on your spinner this week! Stan Sakai is among the greats and would be an awesome subject for a video!!
Last comment, I love the balance of your videos from golden age history and wonkiness, to classic greats in writing and art, to newer creators and reviews. Keep it up Chris!!!
Love these obscure super hero episodes! I'll have to check out the Twelve. Thx for the video. Any chance you will cover Herbie Popnecker?
The Twelve is probably my favorite JMS written comic.
These are always great to see in my inbox.
I would like to see the Claire Voyant Black Widow meet up with the Natasha Romanoff version.
thanks for the episode, Chris!! i really enjoyed this format or reviewing old comics!! it is why I stared watching the show.
Chris, thanks for the video! So much fun and you had some really good jokes as well, so I suspect you had a bit of fun on this one 😉! You really brighten my day and I can't help but smile when I watch one of your videos.
I remember you informed us you were struggling a bit a few months back and I hope this finds you well!
I would LOVE to see her revived as an enemy for the more well-known Black Widow.
I really enjoyed this video. Thank you!
Great episode! I don't have anything to add, but here's a comment.
Hi, you caught me watching a new ComicTropes video...
not much is really bad about "super slave" though, from what i gather its a person, that was turned into a genie and bound to a bracelet, but, unlike genies from most myths and legends, dude actually wants to help people, and so DOESN'T twist your wishes into something diabolical. i mean they even made the dude a glowing ghostly white/green color, so, i don't see why its an example of "the less said the better", it actually seems like a pretty cool concept, like, what or who made it into a genie and trapped it in the bracelet, why does it not appear to behave like most genies, (ie it isnt malevolent), like maybe he was a regular guy who wanted to help his family and managed to stumble on a genie who convinced him that if he wished to become a genie he would have the power to save them, but the genie, being a standard genie, was lying, and him wishing to have the powers of the genie,
1, freed the genie from its prison.
and, 2, turned him into a genie placing him under the curse the evil one was under.
i don't know, i just HONESTLY find it to be a rather cool concept/idea, just....maybe it could have used a better name....i wonder if dudes in the public domain yet or if marvel/disney has renewed it even though they have no plans of using it....
I think I know who the next episodes about and I can't wait to see it!
Claire Voyant
I love the craziness of this.
Enjoy hearing about the golden age. You make it fun. When I try to read the books, I don't really enjoy them as much. Different times.
If you've not read Marvel's The Twelve...read Marvel's The Twelve. It's all about these sorts of uber obscure golden age Timely characters in the modern Marvel Universe and it's one of the best things they ever wrote. Just read it for god's sake. Plus, you get to watch all the golden age Timely character busting up Berlin in 1945.
Yes, more people should read that comic.
What’s so good about it?
@@tdon39 At its core its a character study of 12 very broken people, the ones who didn't become superheroes for the good, wholesome reasons of their comrades and what happens when they enter a world that is both alien to them and also much less forgiving of their moral infraction
@@samwill7259 sounds like a low rent Watchman
@@tdon39 Then don't read it man, jesus, what compelled you to be so negative from a single comment from 2 years ago?
Great video, I love the golden age content!~
The Grateful Dead: 🎵A friend of the Devil is a friend of mine 🎵
Another amazing video Chris, good job! I'm thinking BW could be perfect for a horror/noir series like the kind of stuff they used to publish in Vertigo or Marvel MAX.
6:18 This image would make a fantastic black light poster!
Amazing a character from the Golden Age is totally new to me. I started reading comics in the 1950’s. I read a lot about the Heroes of the Golden Age. I don’t remember ever seeing the Black Widow before her new version that appeared in Marvel Comics in the seventies, I believe. Thanks for this intro into the original character.
I'm surprised she hasn't been revived as a Ghost Rider supporting character.