Is this America’s Worst Commuter Rail? Northstar in Minnesota
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- čas přidán 6. 01. 2023
- Since the beginning of the pandemic, the Northstar commuter rail service in Minnesota sees a depressingly small amount of traffic. Each day, 400 passengers are served by a mere two round trips.
Does such a measly timetable mean we can call this America’s worst commuter rail? What other factors play a part? Find out!
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As a Twin Cities resident, I completely forget the Northstar exists. Mainly because it's a commuter rail with just the 2 morning and evening trains.
It would definitely have potential if it ran all the way to St. Cloud and had regular service throughout the day.
literally this
It was planned to come to st cloud, but the house and Senate are still trying to figure out if they want to or not (according to an article back in 2020) but there is a Northstar bus from st cloud to big lake. It would be a 5-7 year project to improve the infrastructure.
I live in the south metro and used to have a rental in St. Cloud, driving or taking the light rail downtown then the train up there would have been preferable to driving all the way there and back in construction just to replace an outlet or remind her how to work the thermostat.
Exactly. Getting to those places by car are headaches enough
I know who someone in St. Cloud that gets on the bus in St. Cloud in the wee hours and then gets on the train in Big Lake to get to the U of M. The fact that it doesn't go to St. Cloud means we don't use it. Otherwise we might use it to get to the airport or MOA. But that plus the fact that we only have two windows to get back.
As an Iowan who gets to the Twin Cities fairly frequently, I'd like to use Northstar to explore the northwest suburbs. In reality I've taken it exactly once - going between Anoka and downtown Minneapolis. That was before COVID, when there were far more trips per day. Even then, though, almost everything was oriented toward inbound commutes. They seem to have spent tons of money on the stations but almost nothing on day-to-day operation. That makes for a pretty useless system.
I'll also say I'm not nearly as big a fan of these cars as you seem to be. They use essentially the same cars in L.A. and Toronto, and what I dislike about them is the seating arranged in groups of four. Pretty much no one on a commuter train is in a group of four, and if the train isn't empty many single riders will hog the entire area for themselves. I think airplane-style seating (like the lower level on Metra) would be more efficient.
@@intercityrailpal I've always wondered why it never went to St. Cloud...
@@davidburrow5895 My mum doesn't like it too but I must say for Metra, it can be really packed. If you search for Metra time lapse you can see how busy the system is.
@@timnewman1172 ... To be fair it was a Democratic trick to build half of Northstar line to keep budget low and they smiled and thought haha we got it started who'll waste our 1b investmentz but Republicans laughed and said F your budget tricks if we cave to tricks once you'll keep doing them. . . Who needs a commuter train past 20 miles, who has a job past that, what a silly idea a train for people who want 10 acre house for horses, why are Dems doing this?? Even Chicago trains stop mostly at 40 miles, wanting this Minneapolis train to go 55 to St Cloud was weird, who the F will daily go 55 miles to work? .. . Also transit brings in homeless, not a good trade off for city with few working in Minneapolis, maybe charge $20 to keep bums off?.
@@intercityrailpal what's the issue with Amtrak?
I was in charge of the general construction of the Fridley Rail Station. It was a dangerous project as we had to dig 37' straight down on each side of the active transcontinental train rail with up to 80 trains a day going up to 80mph. It was the most dangerous project I worked on. Thank God no one was hurt or killed on the project.
I’m glad you stayed safe! Thanks for building a great station
80 mph freight trains?
@@mirzaahmed6589 Amtrak twice a day at 80mph, freight was already slowing down to enter the yard in NE Mpls and would travel between 20-30mph.
Freights don't go 80 mph and no way in hell are they're 80 trains a day.
There used to be a single reverse commute train in each direction daily. Metro Transit shortened the schedule in '20 and haven't returned. That reverse commute train made the possibility of daytrips to the northern suburbs possible for urbanites. As often as the eastbound Empire Builder is late green line connections have become plausible.
I appreciate the attempt to initiate commuter rail by Metro Transit, but their hearts are barely in it. It's catering to the downtown workers when a lot of job centers are now sub or exurban. There's a lack of point to point service to those places. It's like offering a couple small slices of a great tasting pie and storing it atop a ten foot high shelf.
Glad to see you made it up to the cities I call my long term layover. Can't wait to be riding Chicago trains in a month!
Thom, just as an FYI, the area where you saw the old Milwaukee Road passenger cars, and the E9 locomotive is the headquarters and shops owned and operated by “Friends of the 261“ organization, whose primary claim to fame is their old Milwaukee Road steam locomotive, as well as there periodic fan trips across the country. In addition to the steam locomotive and the E9 diesel they have some really beautiful old Milwaukee Road passenger cars that have been refurbished and are used in the fan trips, and occasionally leased out to other organizations.
Thanks for the info!
oh that's the one that goes thru Seward neighborhood. I just moved from over there they keep it nice the houses are adorable and part of it is pedestrian only
@Eolafan100 thanks for the info about the MILW rolling stock and the Friends of the 261. I’m a railfan from the Twin Cities area and I was about to comment the same info, but you saved me the trouble. 🙂
They also display it at Train Days at Union Depot
Before COVID, Northstar ran 6 trips per direction per weekday. 5 in the traditional commute direction, and 1 in the reverse commute. The first train of the traditional commute would turn around for the reverse, then turn around again to become the last traditional commute train. There were also 3 trains each way on Saturday and Sunday (but not holidays). There were also special trains for Minnesota Twins and Vikings games.
Two things would make Northstar way more popular: extension to Saint Cloud, and an infill stop at Foley Blvd. in Coon Rapids.
I can say from some inside sources a St Cloud extension is in the works as well as confirmed restored schedules pre-pandemic. The Foley Blvd station is also 100% going to be finished with the construction of Northern Lights Express, which now has an official state funding bill for 2023.
COVID knocked the heart out of Northstar.
Northstar is fantastic for Twins games
The route takes less than an hour, so with just those two trains, you could operate hourly all-day service with trains passing in the middle, technically. Which is what you would see in other places to maximize return on investment (In Europe, single track regional lines that operate like that are very common). But in the US freight is probably what's in the way of that.
Important note, the entire rail corridor that the Northstar uses is double tracked up to St Cloud as of 2015. They could easily run multiple more daily trips, but this is also the busiest rail corridor in the state of Minnesota with over 50 daily trains.
@@goldenstarmusic1689 - well, 50 trains a day should be no match for a double track line...
@@carthtc3429 Yes, 50 trains really isn't that much. There are double track intercity lines that see in excess of 300 trains a day (mixed freight and passenger)
@@carthtc3429 It just takes a matter of funding at this point. There's some other engineering challenges, in regards to certain grade crossings and operations+maintenance facility upgrades that would need to be made, but there are engineering plans which have been put out + previous service history of 12 daily Northstar trains on the pre-pandemic schedule which make it totally possible to increase frequencies and run daily round trips, 7 days a week.
My single track branch line from St Budeaux junction to Gunnislake is run exactly on that model it a two line mainline from Plymouth (the largest city) stopping at suburban stations (including one of England's only urban request [flag] stops Dockyard to serve His Majesty's Naval Base the big employer in the city) then it 5 station the Plymouth suburb of St Budeaux then 4 villages that are some way from the main road network making travel possible from this places into the city where a bus route or car commute would be lengthy and where the country lanes really cannot take an increase in traffic. Currently one unit goes Up the valley to Gunnislake from the city taking about 49- 53 minutes waits and comes back. On arrival in Plymouth it either heads straight back or has a crew change. There are plans to extend the line from Bere Alston to Tavistock and hopefully eventually through to Exeter like the line did prior to closing in the sixties.
I find the US transit obsession with large Diesel locomotives and 2/3 double decker cars odd. I'm sure more lines would be cost effective with DMU units like the services in Oregon or Texas rather than these fuel hungry locos.
Thank you so much for covering this under-reported transit system! Just to note, when the routes go to Saint cloud, they do not go to downtown St. Cloud, they pass on the east side of the river toward Brainerd. The old station downtown and the old line through st. Augusta that you have pictured have been removed. There is another line that serves the northeast that is currently serving as a rail yard. Thanks again!
Twin Cities resident here. What might be the most frustrating part about the Northstar's lack of midday service is that there is the 852 express bus which travels from Anoka to downtown Minneapolis which has midday service. It's essentially a local bus between Anoka and the Fridley Station, then hops on the freeway to downtown Minneapolis. It travels relatively close to the Anoka station (15 minute walk or transfer to 805 bus), about a mile away from the Riverdale stop, it goes closer to the Fridley station than the 10U bus you took (other side of the platform), and gets off the freeway downtown near the Target Field station. There is also an infill station proposed in between Fridley & Riverdale at the existing Foley Boulevard park and ride, the bus stops directly at that facility. There is also an 850 bus that takes the same route, except it hops on the freeway earlier (at Foley Boulevard), but it only runs peak hours. So basically they continue to compete with their own commuter rail line with buses (as well as upgrading the adjacent US Highway 10 to a freeway shortly after opening the commuter line), instead of rerouting buses to use them more efficiently as feeders for the line.
The station areas are an issue, but to be fair most cities have rezoned to allow more density proximate to the stations. Most the cities don't really have downtowns. Anoka is probably as close to their downtown as it can get and is trying to redevelop the area. Elk River is the only glaring omission, I understand they wanted a park and ride station, but I think they could still have an additional station in their downtown area (although they would need improvements to cross Highway 10).
I think the extension to St. Cloud would be a great benefit, unfortunately funding formulas said the feds wouldn't pay. It would definitely encourage all day service and make it more like regional rail (assuming it went to downtown St. Cloud, Amtrak stops on the other side of the river) since St. Cloud is a job center and some of the nearby potential stations are in the commuter shed.
There is more I could probably lament about how much better the line could be and how relatively simple an effort it would be to do so, but obviously this comment is already way too long. 😆
I live near Anoka and take the train into Target Field (also seen as a passenger in this video), i've been a passenger for darn near 10 years now and I've hands down been a fan for that whole time. I agree, extending it would be awesome, but our politicians are terrible humans here in Minnesota. I'm very much disappointed in the reduced schedule, I understand the pandemic caused this, but my family and I loved using the train on weekends to go downtown for Twins games before 2020. Fully agree the views are one of my favorite things about taking the rail in.
One more of those entitled whiners who wants someone else to pay for your convenience of using a train for occasional fun trips. You are correct though, our democrat politicians are terrible humans here in Minnesota.
The NorthStar commuter rail was built to ease congestion on Highway 10 but no one is using it. The only time when it's busy with passengers is when the MN Twins play, that is according to the local news. I like the underground corridor to get to the platforms. I lived in Germany for 6 years and have traveled on the highspeed train, the ICE - Inter City Express. It reminds me of that. Thom - I like your videos a lot. I've been watching it for a couple of months but first time commenting on it. I love trains.
It's honestly one of the best channels on CZcams. Keep up the great work. All the best.
Wow, such high praise, danke schön! Glad you enjoy the content!
The stations are incredible for such a relatively mediocre service. For all the focus on the much needed extension to St Cloud, I would seriously love expansion in the other direction to hit some of the south suburbs and Rochester.
Also, adding a line to Duluth would be great...
@@timnewman1172 Very true, but I didn’t mention that because it seems like Amtrak already has some plans for that floating around.
Same! I’m much more likely to go southward than to the suburbs currently in this line.
See my comment above: Northern Lights, and Dan Patch
Of course, as an entitled leech, you would love to have everyone else pay for your rides. If you paid the real cost of the trains, you'd be paying at least 25.00 each way, and more if it went beyond Big Lake.
The bathrooms are nice! haha .. I rode the 2nd outbound train from downtown to Big Lake recently, and the train was actually pretty full. Hardly anyone alighted at Fridley though. The parking lots at the stations further north were well used. I was pleasantly surprised to see how many people were using the service despite the poor frequency. Imagine what it could do with all day service to St Cloud (which is a college town btw). ! :D
The trains would be mostly empty and worthless, entitled leeches would ride it, with massive subsidies paying the costs.
@@jimbendtsen8841 You just described public car infrastructure.
Fantastic! Have fun touring them all!
I love your style of videos. And I am looking forward to a lot more rail reviews.
I’m so happy your channel is growing and you are getting the subscribers and views you greatly deserve. We found you a year ago and your videos and trains are awesome!!!!!!!
Thank you!!! Your encouragement and support means so much!
Judging from the comments saying the service used to be more frequent and it's relatively new, I have a lot of hope for the system. Hopefully they get to fixing it soon, the best time to improve transit is always the present moment. The accessibility really impressed me.
Also, 13:36 was funny but... reminded me of that annoyance. Even at stations that "transfer to Metra", it's a decent walk. Luckily I go to Union and can utilize bus lines from there. But as someone who visits family via Metra and lives on campus downtown, I often bring stuff back that's awkward to carry.
On the topic of favorite commuter train, I've only used Metra. But my favorite line was BNSF, which I grew up on. There's so many stations, and many towns along the line actually integrate their station into their downtown area.
There is good news though for 2023, the Metro Transit budget includes adding 4 trips in each direction and adding back special event service as well.
Coon Rapids has pretty decent TOD and downtown Anoka is pretty close to the station.
Also, route 10U can be an option to get back to Fridley Station(Edit: posted this before I got to that part of the video, lol)
I’m hoping for the day it gets extended to St Cloud!
I’m glad to hear the trips are returning!
Nathan Bakken in the wild, weird. That's good info, I kinda just assumed Metro Transit was gonna let the Northstar fizzle out
I'm absolutely psyched to hear this! Do you know if weekend services are also returning, and if there's a time frame on when they might start the new schedules this year? Thanks for the info!
@@52_Pickup no idea yet, just know that it’s budgeted for. Sorry I don’t have more info.
@@nathanbakken5468 That's still amazing, thank you so much!
It wasn't always that way. Actually, it's a relatively new Commuter service. It is operated by Metro Transit which operates transit buses and the New light rail lines
.
Also North Star operates on tracks owned by the BNSF. Again. This Line isn't even 20 years old yet. The Blue Line light rail will be 20 years old next year.
At least you can transfer at Target Field to the light rail Blue and Green Lines. The Green Line is being extended west to serve the Minneapolis west and southwest suburbs.
As always enjoy your content.
Awesome video!
Sad to see such nice stations get next to no service, stations remind me a bit of GO stations here in Toronto but here our stations see up to -2-3 trains an hour all day in both directions
Hi Thom
I really enjoy your channel!! You asked for suggestions for one of the best light rail systems in the US. How about doing a video on the San Diego Metropolitan Transit System? The beautiful sleek red trains are not only fast, multiple time schedules but also exciting views from your window. I used to be stationed in San Diego and it was always a joy to ride .
As a resident of a city with a Northstar station, thank you for covering our train. I think your analysis was very fair. I wish they would go back to running it more often so I can use it again - with its current schedule it's useless to me. Most of the rest of what I wanted to say looks like it has been covered by other comments, but there is one thing that should be added (I didn't scroll through all the comments). The city of Anoka is in the process of becoming a stop for the Empire Builder but Amtrak is dragging its feet on approving the stop.
I didn’t know about Anoka and Amtrak! Thanks for sharing
Thanks for giving Minnesota some love.
My favorite is UTA FrontRunner as it is the one by my house. I like those warming rooms on Northstar and would be nice to have here on some of those cold days. A big difference in many systems is if they own dedicated track or share with a freight company. We had schedule limitations on FrontRunner from Ogden to Pleasant View from Union Pacific and many people just went to Ogden station because of those limitations.
Great video showing stuff that most of us here, especially not in the US, would almost certainly not know about. US has an interesting relationship with railways. While passenger services leave a lot to be desired the freight modal share is among the highest the world which saves a ton (or a billion tons) of CO2 and congestion from the roads. Channels like this deserve more subscribers and if this happens (of which I'm sure) perhaps it will assist with the social shift of the American society towards accepting trains and public transport in general as a more efficient and sustainable way of moving people around this amazing country.
Thank you! I appreciate your thoughts.
I work for Metro Transit on the Bus side. It was great to hear your perspective on the "Heavy Rail" is what we call it. Thank you for your input.
I had a fantastic bus driver on my trip back to Fridley!
As someone from the twin cities area I would love to give it a try, go out to one of the farther north suburbs or exurbs but with that schedule it is impossible. For all the work that Metro Transit has been able to do in getting transit in the cities built, 2 new lines just this year, they haven't had the same success in getting further away from the cities. Most of it comes down to a legislature unwilling to think about funding transit projects, and while the Met council can find its own funding sources, the cities and counties along the way can't. Maybe this session of the MN legislature they can get it figured out. An extension to St. Cloud with a handful of possible reverse commute trips would probably increase ridership by 10-15 times.
I agree, it seems the obvious answer to both the ridership and frequency dilema is to make it an inter-city train which would run every hour on the hour from the end stations in each direction. Especially if the entire trip would take an hour from Minneappolis to St Cloud.
Doing that would probably get investment from both the Twin Cities as well as St Cloud, and therefore cover a good chunk of the change, and if it can be shown that people in the area think it's a good idea, and that information be put in front of politicians, then hopefully it can receive such an expansion within the next couple of years.
At least that's the hope. Though I've no idea how your state and city legislature works what with me being British. But still it should be possible if enough voices shout it loudly enough.
They keep talking about The Cities to Duluth as well. I'll believe it when I see it....
I wish they would keep expanding the rail systems..... I moved here from the Chi in '03 and transit has improved consistently until this pandemic :( I just had to finally buy a car because they really are struggling even to get from parts of Mpls to St.Paul is just not quite..... efficient yet
even the rapid buses out to the suburbs would be an improvement but like you said the $$$$ gotta be there
LMAO. For the Love of God, stop that leftard BS propaganda. There is no demand for ridership to St. Cloud.
The Milwaukee Road makes several excursions a year. It's pulled by the 261 stream locomotive, which was probably housed in that shed. The Fall Color Tour and the Gourmet Dinner Tour come through my town about a half hour west of Minneapolis. It is so amazing to see the locomotive thundering down the tracks.
Thanks for the info. I have heard of that commuter train, but knew very little about it. I like the fact that you can bring a bike with you. The fare seems quite reasonable. I've commuted by train in Chicago, and have seen the commuter train in the Denver area. Video was well put together, thanks.
Thank you!
I actually used to take this daily for work prior to Covid. The schedule used to be a little bit better prior to Covid, but the schedule was limited. The benefits were that I could skip the traffic and relax while reading and also I could avoid having to get through the snow with my vehicle. However, I'd have to outweigh the time sink of taking the train and then jumping onto the light rail.
If always wanted someone to cover and realize this issue thanks pal for covering this I thought I was the only one who realized this problem
I used to commute by bus from a suburb to downtown (I wish we had a train). There were three buses in each direction but only during commuter hours. They ran the route mostly non-stop and partly on an expressway in 22 to 25 minutes. Now there is only one bus in each direction with the morning bus leaving around 6:30 AM and the return at around 7 PM. Both require a transfer at a remote Park and Ride lot to a bus that makes many stops, making the trip about twice as long. If you need it to get to work, you will spend almost 13 hours for your 8 hours of paid work. Very little could be worse than that.
Sadly, this is kind of what my commute is like. Frequencies are higher, but because of bad connections, I end up sacrificing most of my day.
Putting the commuter rail on trial made me laugh out loud. I suggest making it hourly during off-peak, half-hourly peak and extending it to St. Cloud. Then it won't be the worst!
These are great ideas!
@@intercityrailpal We have the light rail for that
@@intercityrailpal OK trans reverse out of the station and use the Amtrak line to Saint Paul union depot
@@intercityrailpal the great northern depot was where the federal reserve is now on hennepin Avenue next to the river.
Theres a shuttle that goes to St Cloud from the Big Lake station
Excellent work, sir and a fun video! Yes, hopefully the line will be extended to connect Minneapolis and St. Cloud together.
Chicago has four of the best rail systems in the country:
1. The 100 mile long NICTD South Shore Line from downtown to South Bend Indiana. Although the biggest drawback would be the trains are out of date and so long you could miss it if you dont know where to board. You will see alot of Notre Dame fans riding on Saturdays during the fall.
2. Metra Union Pacific North to Kenosha Wisconsin hits many popular attractions.
3.Metra Rock Island to Joliet during will express you out of the city to some historic spots in the southwest suburbs.
4. The CTA Orange Line whisks you from downtown to Midway Airport in 25 minutes.
As for worse, I wouldnt say Metra Herritage. It's techinally an alternate route to the Metra Rock Island so even if you explore Joliet, you always have a way back and you can't beat Chicago to Joliet in an hour when you take away potential freight train delays.
Subscribed!
While casually browsing Google Maps, I stumbled across Minneapolis and as an public transport geek; I wanted to figure out which commuter rail system it had. I knew before that commuter rail systems in the US are usually quite depressing, but this is like the holy grail of them lol The worst regional lines in Germany I know are running here AT LEAST every two hours, and even these are quite rare to find. Greetings from Germany, very interesting video :)
3:52 Other than the last two stations (Big Lake and Elk River), the others have some form of transit-oriented development already complete or under construction, and there's a lot more to come! Fridley's eastern parking lot was turned into apartments a couple years ago. Ramsey (which was also an infill station that opened in 2012 after the 2009 opening of the commuter rail line) has one of my personal favorites: A 4-story apartment complex with a direct link via the municipal parking deck to the Northstar station. Ramsey is also the sole station that does not have a surface parking lot for park and rides. Metro Transit published a TOD trends report back around 2017-2018 highlighting the master plan for TOD's at all stations.
Glad to see there’s more than just what I saw!
Even at Big Lake and Elk River, the land around the stations has been densifying up with new apartments and buildings. Each of the cities on its route has had rapid population growth
Adding Becker, and on to St Cloud is just common sense. Also, adding routes to Duluth and possibly Rochester would make it possible for many more people to access public transit...
@@timnewman1172 Duluth is getting a higher speed rail line, the Northern Lights Express, which will share trackage and stations with the Northstar! Unfortunately, the Rochester HSR plan was canned by NIMBYs in 2016, but there's still will for it across the state including from Rochester's mayor.
Another great video. The prices looked great compared to UK peak and even off peak prices. The trains looked well used for such a low frequency and people looked to be travelling between the intermediate stations, Agree on the livery it looks great. On my trip to LA in February I have the same issues of very low frequency going against the peak flow so have to start my days earlier than I would like travelling to Simi Valley and Fullerton though very happy with the prices.
I spent the past week in the Simi Valley, you are going to love it! Absolutely beautiful over there.
I live in Minneapolis and this was an excellent assessment. There's absolutely no reason Northstar shouldn't go to all the way to St. Cloud
Thanks!
I took the northstar from coon rapids to minneapolis many summers ago (10+ years) when I had a temp job and was living with my parents. It was very convenient and inexpensive. Sad to see that it's become a shell of itself.
It was so inexpensive because it was, and is, very heavily subsidized. Back then, it was subsidized 18.00+ EACH WAY.
Any bad time spent on a train is better thana good time at work.Good video! Greetings from Port Saint Lucie Florida!
Anoka here... when they first started planning Northstar, they had a deal with BNSF to lease the tracks for 3 million a year. By the time the Legislature finished approval for it YEARS LATER, that price skyrocketed to over 30 million a year to use the tracks. This was all pre-covid ofc, God only knows how much it costs now.
Five years ago, I was told each rider COST the State of MN $7. per ride. Again, idk how much it is now. What they won't admit, is how much time is wasted by other commuters waiting in cars at the train intersections everyday. Here in Anoka, the gates can be closed for 4-5 minutes everytime the train passes. Cars can literally be backed up a mile (in 2 directions) waiting for it to pass. The schedule is during rush hour.
It drives me nuts waiting for several minutes only to see the train go by with half a dozen people on it.
I've never understood why the crossing on 47 closes when the train is stopped at the station. I get that it's rather close but surely they can figure out a way to make it so it doesn't trigger until the train resumes moving. Thankfully they are going to re-do that section but that won't be until after the HWY 10 stuff is done.
Great video! I'm subbing, you need a lot more attention!
Thank you so much!!
This is a very well thought-out review. I'm interested to see if you could run this analysis on other systems that could be considered the "worst commuter rail", such as the Music City Star (aka the WeGo Star) in Nashville, Tennessee.
I’ve been thinking about a trip to ride the WeGo. I like visiting Nashville so might as well.
better timetable at least...also has an easy comparison to Austin's Red Line (near identical length, similar sized cities).
Keep going man I like watching ur vids
Thank you!!
@@Thom-TRA yw
I've lived in Minnesota all my life and since I use the Blue Line Lightrail all the time, I was quite confused clicking on this video, I've always had an excellent time on these tracks and they are very efficient, turns out he wasn't talking about them 😅. Very interesting view about something I didn't really know existed! (Even though it was right in front of me!)
The light rails are fine c:
My favorite commuter rail is still Caltrain and Sunrail however because they have everything I am looking for. As a rail fan I never ridden Sun Rail but heard great things about it. Caltrain, I like because I grew up with it and can tell how frequent it is. Catching a limited service or BB Express train is a real treat that can be hard to get.
I used to live within walking distance of the Coon Rapids station and took that train to work every day. I would then jump on the blue line which had a stop right at my work. I really liked it, and it was super convenient. The biggest benefit though is in MN disabled veterans do not have to pay for public transit, so my commute was completely free.
As a Minnesotan, I think Northstar could be an amazing service for everyone if routes were expanded to connect more cities in the state. I live in the Mankato area and would love it if we had trains going to places like Minneapolis, Duluth, or Rochester so I didn't have to drive all the way there.
There definitely seem to be enough tracks in the Twin Cities area to support a bunch of different lines. The suburbs are tragically underserved, in my experience.
I'm a train junkie and I'd never heard of NorthStar.
It did seem like a new service which I attributed to a possible reason for so few trains.
After watching, I looked it up and found that it's 12 years old, which is relatively new, but even so there should be at least 12 daily trains in each direction by this time.
Yeah to say it is not living up to its true potential is an understatement
It used to run 12 daily trains with special event trains, which said frequencies and schedule are getting restored this year.
I called the Metro info a few months ago and a very nice lady helped me with connecting busses. She told me they have had a hard time finding drivers for the trains. Who knew? BTW - I am the Coon Rapids stop. Haven't tried the train yet.
There aren't more trains because so few people want to use it. Like the others who do want to use, once in a while, you expect all taxpayers to fund it so you don't have pay the real cost.
It's the only heavy commuter rail service I have any experience with, but I do love Metrolink in Southern California. When I lived out there I found that between them and LA Metro/Buses, you could pretty much get anywhere you needed to go, even on weekends. These days though not really a "commuter" train, I'm a fan of Amtrak's Blue Water, (though I wish they ran multiple trains like the Wolverine.) It's a nice and relatively affordable option when I want to take a day or weekend trip to Chicago
I love Metrolink! I’m currently hiking in SoCal right now and the views from the train are amazing.
One of my favorite commuter rail systems in the United States is RailRunner in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Service is relatively frequent, fares are low and plenty of transit connections along the route which extends from the south at Belen north through Albuquerque and up to Santa Fe (State Capital) there is some midday service as well as weekend service even.
I really want to ride the Railrunner!
I love in Minneapolis and my main way of travel is public transportaion. I know it could be improved but it's one of the best that I've had in any place I've used. Granted I pretty much stay in the Twin Cities (and the mall of america sometimes lol)
also! one of my favorite things is that the platforms are heated so there's no snow or ice in the winter
I happened upon your video this morning and enjoyed your opinions and views. Northstar definitely needs to have its service expanded. More trains per day etc. I drive one of the Northstar Link busses every afternoon, r/t from St Cloud to BIG Lake. I guess like you noted that the service was more frequent pre-covid and I'd like to see it get back to that level and more. Thanks for your video.
Thanks for being a part of Northstar! Do you exclusively have regular commuters on your bus or are there new people occasionally?
@Trains Are Awesome
Yes....there is a group that must take one of the morning busses down to BIG Lake from mainly our Downtown Transit Center or the St Cloud Park & Ride lot on the south side of town. The busses are MCI D series motorcoaches. The St Cloud Metro Bus system in association with the Twin Cities MTC runs 4 busses a day to meet the 4 current trains.
Awesome video! Living here in the Twin Cities I have never used the Northstar Line as long as it has existed. Would love to get a round-trip one day along with the full route of the Metro Green Line. I think what would be great if Metro Transit would expand their commuter service to places like Rochester or Mankato one day.
I live in San Diego and the Coaster is exactly like Northstar ( same equipment) but a much better schedule. And their light rail system looks like San Diego Trolley too! I really enjoy your videos! Whenever I plan a trip I look at the trains and public transportation! I enjoy riding the rails! Thanks again!
I’m so glad you enjoy my videos! I’m the same way, I love riding transit when I visit a place.
Also, coaster has my favorite livery!
I rode the Coaster in recent weeks and the only negative thing about that ride was the VERY slow zone where it does quite the detour around some hills near where I-805 ends before getting back to I-5.
If they were to completely rebuild that section, reroute it along a MUCH smoother curving viaduct, among comparable such improvements, that alone would help the Coaster become comparable to driving in terms of time effectiveness, especially outside of any rush hours… to which appear to be nowhere near as hectic as LA’s pure hell on earth levels of congestion.
I live in Minneapolis and I didn’t even know this train existed, I think I’d they advertised it more it would help increase ridership and possibly fund an expansion which would be nice
That’s wild to me that it’s so unknown
Exactly the same here. I almost never have any reason to go to the northern suburbs, though, so I guess it’s not that surprising that I didn’t know about it. I’m far more familiar with the light rail (and I can’t wait for the southwest expansion to Eden Prairie that’s supposed to happen…eventually?)
@@zanews23 2027 I’m afraid…
Gotta love how TWO light rail/tram lines and one commuter rail is the peak of rail transit for a metro area of ~3 million. Obviously Northstar is limited by freight lines where it can go, but it did seem to me it chose to go in the relative middle of nowhere on the north end of I-94.
Thanks for covering Amtrak as well, since I found it a bit strange- if the point of Northstar was to let released convicts come home to Minneapolis from St. Cloud, Amtrak already provides that.
It's just more or less egregious that there isn't a single connection point between Northstar and the Amtrak, you have to take the Green line to Union Station in St. Paul, or the Blue line (apologies if I got it mixed up, I think of them as new/old respectively) to the Airport and get an Airport Connector bus to La Crosse.
Philly has the commuter rail not connect to the subway, that was more or less egregious IMO.
t: lived in MN for 20 years
Pre covid there was 5 trips inbound and 2 reverse commute in the morning and evening. And used to run special service for twins games.
New subscriber! Saw the title and being a local and have used that train from the Coon Rapids station to the city. A frequent user of the Blue line since it was first built.
Thanks for subbing!
Great video
A great ride and review! As a visitor to both Washington D.C. and Philadelphia, on occasion for work, I found that the D.C. Metro was terrific, especially if your work location was downtown. Travel from the airport, to downtown accommodations, and to the work site was absolutely great. When visiting Philly, the SEPTA took me from the airport to downtown and it was great for that. However, my worksite or accommodations turned out to be inconvenient for using the rail service. In both cases, the trains were clean, mostly frequent trains, with the SEPTA cars being older but in super clean and modernized condition. This report is descriptive of the conditions between 2000 through 2009. Loved this report for the NorthStar! Very good visuals and analysis. Clearly, the service is at a crossroads of whether to wither or recover. Thanks for sharing!
I do love both those systems a lot. Hoping to explore them more in the future.
I totally agree. I believe the DC Metro is by the far the best rail services in America. I live in Philly and I think Septa is getting a lot better. The Silverliners we have are older but Septa keeps it very clean. We have newer trains but we have a lot more older trains in services in Philly. The timetable is much better with Septa as well. When I made a complaint with septa because a train came to early, they listened and give me a nice response. Basically stating they messed up and valued my ridership. For me DC and Septa is great.
@@IDKeffect82 I wish the CTA would listen to my complaints. Just yesterday I had a bus driver pass me because he was on his phone. When I ran to the next stop and caught up with him, I told him, calmly of course, and got a nice 5am batch of verbal abuse thrown at me.
@@Thom-TRA oh my lord. Thats horrible
@@IDKeffect82 yeah I called the complaint line but they never really follow through
Thank you so much for this great video ! I had been looking forward to your visit to Minneapolis, and was not disappointed ! Firstly I think the trains themselves are great, being very spacious, and well laid out. As for the locomotives I am a huge fan of the MPI fleet, which in the North Star livery look stunning !
Secondly, and sadly most important, is the absurdly infrequent schedule. Surely by now the authorities should introduce a much more frequent service throughout the day ? They have plenty of rolling stock, most of which is sitting idle all day. To me, that is a disaster waiting to happen. As a frequent guest in your country it would be rude to name and shame, but I really like SunRail in Orlando Florida, and Virginia Railway Express in Washington D.C, both of which maintain very high standards. Oh, and they both use MPI locomotives ! I hope you and Lindsey will soon take a trip down south ! Many thanks.
I hope to try SunRail someday! I have some family in that area. Perhaps one day when the airport/Universal branches are open!
@@Thom-TRA That would be great. At the moment Brightline are completing their new line into Orlando Airport, and SunRail are getting ready to extend their line there also. Could be a few years yet !
Thanks for doing the commuter rail that's near where I live!
You’re welcome! Do you ever ride it?
@@Thom-TRA I have rode it once and it was around the 2010's. But I mostly film the trains leaving the station!
Downtown Minneapolis has never recovered from the pandemic. There used to be an influx of 100k people downtown for work. Maybe 1/4th of that number work M-F downtown? This is the reality in many mid-sized cities. People aren't using the Northstar because they're not working downtown anymore.
Our transit is heavily opposed by lots of local and state electors. The car lobby is strong. It would've been a no-brainer to connect the Northstar to St. Cloud but of course it just randomly ends in a small exurb.
I recently discovered your channel and I enjoy your videos.
My favorite commuter rail would have to be MARC but I grew up in the Washington DC area near the Penn Line, so I might be biased 🙂
I did like my experience on the MARC Penn Line, well, except for the grumpy conductors. Would like to experience the other two lines.
I watch this train haul a$$ through the train yard all the time in fridley! Cool to see where it actually goes too
Living somewhere close to Philadelphia, I’d have to say my favorite commuter rail would be Septa. It’s great to be able to connect to Amtrak at 30th St., Station, not to mention going downtown plus taking a train directly to the PHL airport is very convenient.
I do love the ingenuity of the center city section. Have yet to try the airport service, but heard it’s great!
Oh man, I live in St Paul and this makes me want to move to Fridley and tart using it! My favorite commuter train and only one I’ve used lol is Denmarks system from Roskilde to Copenhagen. I would use it everyday and so many people used it!
Metro North is definitely my favorite commuter rail system and I think it has altered my perception of what CR should be. Two trains a day? Puh-lease! but I was impressed with how nice and clean and easy it seemed to be to ride all the way downtown from the 'burbs. I also liked seeing Dayton's while you were strolling around the mini-Apple. I had no idea that they were still in business!
Great train, with marginal schedule pre-pandemic and a horribly limited schedule now. I rode it to many Twins games when it was standing room only. Also, a great way to get from the NW burbs to the airport, via a transfer to the blue line LRT. Great on the morning commute if you’re going inbound, especially if there’s a snowflake or two which grinds freeway traffic to a near standstill. I hope ridership rebounds and service expands, but Covid really did a number on the Northstar for the time being.
Someone who lives in Minnesota and traveled on those frequently pre covid. Those used to pre covid used to be packed. I would bus from st cloud to biglake and northstar to Minneapolis everyday and it was packed at every station. Every parking lot was jam packed. I used to leave st cloud on earliest bus but even st cloud park n ride was decently crowded. I have since moved and have not riden them in 3 ish years now but i kinda missed it
I grew up in Elk River. The Northstar is great for getting to the airport for a morning flight, and I've taken it when visiting my parents. You can take the blue line at Target Field straight to the airport. No need for parking. The problem is taking it back. It seems so pointless to have this nice train route when there is such a limited schedule. Just adding a midday service and a late night service would be great.
I’m sure it’s great for the airport, I love taking transit to the airport. Let’s hope service expands soon, the people of Minnesota deserve it!
THIS
We keep wishing for service down to Rochester, but our perfect little DMC bubble will keep simultaneously asking for it and then turning our noses up at every proposal lol.
There was 7 day a week service before the pandemic.
See the few trips on Nashville WeGo Star.
The old Milwaukee Road Passenger Cars and Engine you saw at approximately 10:48 in the video are owned by the Friend's of the Milwaukee Road 261. I would guess that the 261 itself is inside of the shop building for the winter and for maintenance.
Trains are Awesome-maybe you would like to know that the eastbound BNSF freight that passed you at the Fridley platform was symbol H GFDNTW (high-priority mixed freight from Grand Forks, ND to Northtown (Minneapolis) (also works Dilworth, MN)
Thanks, I would not know where to even begin looking for that info!
I’m hoping that with the changes in the legislature and influx of federal dollars to rain projects that they resume a better schedule and extend it to St Cloud.
Imagine the ridership if they ran trains around the Twins schedule . Sad!! I live in Mpls and this video answered every question I've ever had about this train. thank you!
You’re welcome!
It use to run trains to the game before the pandemic, which I think was the only time it had weekend service. I think the occasionally did it for other events as well. I think the Target Center being close would also help. GO WOLVES!
The train doesn't go to St Cloud because the politicians there are hard core conservative and wouldn't support it. I personally think it was a ploy to kill the line by underserving the potential ridership by ending it in Big Lake. I took the train one time some years ago when Bike MN put on an excursion to Big Lake and we rode our bicycles back to Minneapolis.
A great review! And a big thanks for NOT showing the bathrooms (really! I don’t need to see them, lol).
Recently read that MN Legislature is planning to finally approve the rail from Minneapolis to Duluth. I’ve been waiting for that trip for a very long time.
Used to take the train from big lake to Minneapolis for twins games all the time. I wish it was extended to st cloud though
The "old train station" you passed is where they store Locomotive 261.
As a green-ish transplant to the Cities, I had no idea about this Northstar commuter rail! Indeed, a more frequent schedule would be helpful.
I suggest you take the commuter rail from Albuquerque to Santa Fe...now those are quite some views! I think round trip cost ten bucks- that was last year. And one way, it took about an hour from station to station.
I used to live in NYC/Long Island. The LIRR is great - take the one all the way Montauk! Never done it myself but bet you get nice views along the way, too. It'll be a very long ride, FYI if you're hopping on from Penn Station. Also, take the Metro North from Grand Central to Beacon or the Botanical Gardens - gorgeous views along the Hudson. Plus both those stations in Manhattan are worth experiencing in themselves.
Another one that's decent are the commuter lines in the Boston area. Forget what they're called but took them quite a bit as a college student. Convenient.
Anyway, happy riding! It would be rad to compare globally too! The Japan Railways is unbeatable...I got to visit so many cities easily that way.
favorite commutter rail for me is the Metrolink ( SCRRA ) in Southern CA. I also like the fact that the crews ( engineer and conductor ) are Amtrak employees.
I’ve ridden several Metrolink lines this per week. Absolutely loved the Antelope Valley and Ventura lines. Frequencies may be bad, but those views…
Check out the sounder In seattle. Not the s line to Tacoma and lakewood. They have about 15 round trips. The N line going north to Everett has two round trips with only 2 or 3 passenger cars.
Thanks for advocating for the Northstar, it really won’t be anything if or until they extend it to St. Cloud (I am remaining hopeful that the new state legislature will help but I digress). It would offer so many more options and connections and would give me a reason to use it periodically. It is truly a shame what has happened to the Northstar over the past few years, service should definitely be more frequent. I think Metro Transit just wants to keep it running as infrequent as possible so they don’t have to admit defeat in building a pretty much useless line (for the time being) while trying not to hemorrhage money. They’re gonna lose money no matter what give us more frequencies and St. Cloud! At least we have the best paint scheme.
FYI: if you hadn’t already realized or had been told the Go To machine is not for tickets but for Go To card holders 😂. just a more efficient way to do it ig.
I realized the thing about the tickets, just wanted to demonstrate! 😂
That’s my hope too. The timing couldn’t be better given the DFL trifecta in the legislature and the leftover infrastructure funding from Congress.
It would be interesting to hear what those fares cost taxpayers...... $300 one way to Mpls.? Those empty parking lots show a shameful waste of money. Also, why isn't there a connection to Amtrak going West somewhere?
@@lakefiftyseven empty parking lots say nothing about a train’s potential success, only the limited vision that its creators have.
@@Thom-TRAThere is a connection to Amtrak in St Cloud...I believe the problem is that the freight line can't handle the commuter train traffic without putting in an extra line for passenger trains. I hope this gets done. All the people on the North West part of Minnesota and the Dakotas would be coming down for sporting events and make the line less expensive to subsidize......Or profitable.
Great video Thom! I personally never been to Minneapolis but it looks like a fun city to explore. Plus to be able to see the Mall. I say my local commuter/ Regional Rail system is Tri Rail in South Florida. And its surprising one of the busiest in the southeast USA. But thats not saying much because there isn't alot of commuter rail in this part of the states. It carries a huge traffic of 9-5 commuters but it uses the former CSX line that Amtrak uses but there is only two Amtrak trains daily that runs the same rail line Tri-Rail runs.
I say If your in the South Florida area you may want to try Brightline since right now its sort of commuter but more class to it compared to Tri-Rail, its currently being expanded to Orlando so it will become an Intercity High Speed Rail (Sort of but you catch my drift). Anyways If your down in South Florida try both Tri-Rail and Brightline. Just one is government operated (Tri-Rail) and the other is privately operated (Brightline). Would love to hear your Trip Reports for that.
As for my favorite its hard because all have their advantages and disadvantages and serve their communities in their own ways. But the one I been to which I loved was either SEPTA Regional Rail, NJ Transit and Metro North.
I hope to ride Brightline someday soon! And if I’m down anyways of course I’ll give Tri-Rail a tri (pun intended)
Id say another worst timetable is the LIRR greenport branch (Ronkonkoma branch between Ronkonkoma and Greenport) They only have 2 round trips every weekend, and about 4 eastbound trips and 5 eastbound trips every weekday. One of those round trips terminates 3 stops before greenport known as yaphank.
Ha! I saw that you filmed this on November 3 which is my bday!
As a St. Cloud state student, before I had a car in St. Cloud, this is how I got home to Ramsey. I liked it for the cost but it adds an hour to the commute with the bus ride and everything.
As a Twin Cities native, I'm glad YT put this on my homepage. I will throw down about how our GoTo card system is better than Chicago's Ventra cards, being that I've owned both for years. 😂
Wow!
They could use some more sidewalks!
And I am glad to see that they keep the stations clean!
That stuff can get NASTY!
Also, the red line where I am from!
It goes east and west and it's easy to transfer to other trains and busses!
Used to be Twins season ticket holders and used the Northstar all the time..we would just drive to Big Lake from St Cloud…Worked great…Incredible that it still only goes to Big Lake…Increase it to Duluth and ramp up more runs otherwise its gonna die….
Hey I love the northstar I hope that someone makes a cab ride video
Wow thanks for sharing. Just wish they'd get the will to do more frequency and foster better land-use around the stations and I believe the ridership would come for far more than a small niche of travelers. Frequency seems like a common issue that comes up again and again with transit in the U.S.
Yeah it’s like people don’t realize they higher frequencies would actually boost ridership
You'll be glad to know that the pre-pandemic Northstar train schedules, as well as special event trains are being restored this year! There are also many plans in place for full St Cloud rail service extensions, as well as a multitude of TOD plans+construction that has happened at almost every single Northstar station except for Anoka.
@@52_Pickup That's great news. Sounds like things are heading in the right direction.
I miss taking it to and from Twins games from the Elk River station. Great parking and we didn't have to stress about finding downtown parking. Plus you could have some cocktails at the game and be sobered up by the time you got back to Elk River. Hopefully they bring those back.
I heard the game trains were packed!
@@Thom-TRA Yes there were definitely times some had to stand. But it's not that long of a ride, so it wasn't really an issue.
@@bradmootz2196 trust me, as someone who once lived in Tokyo, I can deal with a crowded train on occasion 😂
I like the light rail trains better in Twin Cities because they run very frequently. Some people want me to film and ride the Northstar but once I see that it's only run rush hour only, I can't because I don't want to get stuck in the suburbs of Minnesota.
The best way to fix this line is to extend it all the way to Fargo and use it as a feeder line for the Sports Stadiums in Minneapolis. The set up is perfect. It is about 5hrs from Fargo so the trains can make it easily by game time.....Lot's of sports fans in the Fargo and Eastern North Dakota and Northwest Minnesota areas......St Cloud is already a third of the way to Fargo....So, a Duluth line can wait till later.
Although I may be biased as a New Yorker I have to say that Metro North’s New Haven line is the best commuter rail in the country. It has an abundance of trips in each direction, connecting a large city to a small one and all the suburbs in between with both local and express service