It only took me 2 attempts to fully master the revamped tournament mode when it was first release, to be honest it wasn't that incredibly hard, even in insane mode because everyone has a simple counterplay to it, Death Fang got the hardest nerf since his main gimmick was he would summon and spam deads in the early game to overwhelm you, give you a somewhat challenging unpleasant start but now he genuinely feels like a second round opponent, he got absolutely nerfed into oblivion, come on Stick War Devs!!! YA'LL BETTER THAN THIS!!, Feels like their mocking the skills of SWL veterans by nerfing the opponents that gave us the most trouble, also for new players, they can just play the game in normal or hard mode until they mastered the tournament completely, I find it weird that they also had to nerf the opponents that barely gave us any trouble at all like what is the logic honestly...they made the easier opponents, even easier and it feels sad honestly, they didn't deserve the nerf at all
I like how they took suggestion from those who want to not live a happy life but rather making themselves suffer with difficult ass challenge And now they made those annoying but challenging bot completely garbage
I really wonder why people find the last tournament fights difficult, personally I have a comp that I drop very often when I don't want to break my head, and which is auto-win even in insane mode: golden giant statue + a good giant skin (leaf, savage, voltaic, lava or even undead) and the giant avatar. in almost all fights I win directly because there is nothing that can counter it, if there is a griffin or a kai rider I control a giant and I hit the statue more easily and I win, 12 giant is just impossible to kill. and that's if I'm not playing a classic army, but unleashing giants is just too strong and fun, especially if it's a lava or voltaic giant, and you can win very easily without overusing expensive spells , it's free, fun and much too strong. I really think that making the tournament even easier than it already is will only end the game, because if you play well, you get through the game very quickly, and if there is no more challenge... it's not fun
I'm writing a complete strategy article on all modes for all characters after the second round of the tournament, and I'm losing motivation because of this nerf. Unless they reconsider and revert to the original specs, I can't bring myself to write the rest of the article.
Before the update even the hardest enemies (hacker and Cyrus) I was able to absolutely annihilate by just spamming voltaic giants on amolst every game mode (expect for gold rush, there I go for 4 swords strat to cause damage and THEN get the giants) and hardest difficulty of course. Now it feels so piss easy I'd rather die than try and play it.
Why did they have to do this on insane mode? I wouldn't have mind it if it's normal and hard but come on, what did you expect when you play on the *HARDEST DIFFICULTY OF THE GAME!* The nerfs are ridiculous
they should add custom tournament mods enemies where you can pick its difficulty and you can use other enemies from other players and be able to make your own tournaments and share your tournaments with other players
Honestly, I want the Tournament to be like the first one. I feel like I'm guessing well. But after the nerf, It's more like pleasing new players. I feel like it's no longer challenging now. Really want to take the old model and put it in a very difficult level. and put the new one in at normal level Which should be very suitable for new players. Because if we keep playing, players like us will remember how the bots play. And that's important for the tournament mode. The uniqueness of the bot, which has more ways to fight players than before. It looks fun and not boring. Because it's like we met a real person.
The best AI upgrade would be to make it learn from videos somehow and feed it skilled gameplay . like , the best of everything . it would feel like fighting multiple actual pros at once . but why would they do that when they can randomly increase and decrease numbers to balance it (not really)
@@thatskeletordude5271 i heard of AI that learn from things. Some even players. But that AI was more live learning. So it would learn something as its happening and be better at that next time around
But machine learning is very expensive and definitely wouldn't happen in just a day or 2. Keep in mind that Max Games is a small studio, and that they probably can't afford to do such a thing. And let's be honest, if they could do it, they would do it with SW3 first.
@@strategicblover5707well yea. I never sayd it would take only a few days. And I dont know enough about AI learning and max games studio to say right now what can be done or not. But i have seen like 1 good decision with the AI. And it was undone now so we are down to 0
@@tacticalmadnessTM Instead of doing machine learning which is very expensive, they could just do some coding perhaps. I don't know a lot of coding myself, but I think it might be possible. For example, if the enemy player has magikill, then use spearton spear throw to kill. They could just make the spear always hit the intended target for insane. Another example is having the pro players on insane UC voltaic archers to snipe and insta-kill your economy like the player. Make the shots always land. If a player UC one of their own archers, make so that the player UC shots will never hit the AI UC archer. The AI controlled archer will do up/down whenever there is player UC archer near it to give the illusion that the archer is dodging the arrow shots. The AI will also then shifts its priotrity from killing miners to killing army units if the player makes any army units. However, the AI archer can still be hit and killed by non UC archers. This could be crazy especially on barricades and would add a new level of challenge to know you are basically fighting a perfectly UC archer that will perfectly dodge all player arrows and one wrong mistake could lead to getting insta-killed. Another example is have the pro players on insane use the best/most optimal skin combos and user-controlling to take advantage (Lava/voltaic giants to just obliterate units and targest the backline like the archers/magikill, UC fast moving, stun resistant, savage spearton to spear throw and kill high-priority magikill, voltaic archer to snipe units like I said above, undead magikill, leaf miner, etcs) Finally, on deathmatch/super death match, the AI needs to be more aggressive. Why do they build swords and archers first? How do they not build like giants, magikill, and spears? That needs to be changed. Also image the proplayers like Cyrus, Ruthless, CrazyJay, or Hacker.Exe with these changes. Actually, just imagine hacker.exe with his multi-skin units and him UCing them like a champ. The other pros would also become very very challenging on insane. These are just some ideas. Obviously, this is refering insane mode. Normal and hard mode probs shouldn't receive these changes. (UC=user-controlled)
@@thatskeletordude5271 And because it's the majority the devs think what they're doing is good. Everything really fell over ever since legacy happened.
@@Umbra185 most feedback were taken from the discord server, and they were from people who actively play the game (including me), they might been a chance that just take more feedback from private emails, but overall the discord server was where the devs was commonly interacting with the community.
To s07: If we know that the tournament mode nerf was made as a direct result of the majority of the player's complaints and feedback, instead of calling them out like they're 'skill issue', why not try to reason out with them? For I can guarantee calling them out is not going to help anyone and will only make things worse. Neither with the perceived mindset of "hey, you're a lot weaker as a player than I am so you're not worth my time" will give results. There is a firm standing that even if there's super good players like us, the majority of the players may not be as well developed or highly skilled in Stick War compared to us. But, if that group of fanbase outnumber us by a landslide, the developers made the choice to change it to suit them, that's the new reality we have entered in and it is important the strong players like us understand that. Yes I agree with your strong, valid opinion that the new tournament mode in Insane is totally garbage, or feels like Normal difficulty. Maybe even easier than Normal Difficulty. I believe the right course of action now is to talk and be as nice as possible to the community. Ask them the questions: what exactly is the root cause that made them complain to the devs that the Insane mode deserves such nerf? Was their units stats too tough? Too much Archidon rain? Not enough gems? If they really cannot handle that kind of difficulty on Insane on the old tournament mode... Then we guide them how to do it(not that it's possible now), and eventually our guidance can clear their doubts and not to complain the "Insane mode nerf" again to the devs. Or politely ask them to try Normal or Hard mode first. That's exactly what that modes are for -catering to the majority of the fanbase. Like it or not, just as our opinions do matter. The new player's opinions will matter to the developers as well so that's something we have to look at. Get their detailed feedback, and be friends with these new players. That's gonna help in the long run, especially when you have a friendly personality! sean893
I understand your points, but I also feel like I'm getting misunderstood here. I understand if SWL only had 1 difficulty option and everyone had no choice but to play that. Then this would make sense. But Normal and Hard difficulty exists as easier options if someone plays on Insane and finds it too difficult. It's a natural course of action. If something is too hard, then play on an easier difficulty. There are alot of players that want a good challenge on Insane and SWL as a whole is a reasonably easy game. But it isn't fair to those players if less experienced ones, who chose to play on the highest difficulty, are experiencing problems and are wanting nerfs on the highest difficulty, especially when there are two easier options. And I'm not saying that nerfs shouldn't have happened at all. Because they definitely did. And I stated that. The issues is the nerfs were taken way too far and as a result, the tournament is a joke on the highest difficulty, which is supposed to provide a challenge. My statement was not to call people out and say "the tournament mode is meant to be super hard and anyone who thinks otherwise has a skill issue!" My whole point was Insane needs to remain as Insane.
If you can't beat them try on normal mode because it the main reason for people who they always play on insane mode are not allowed try at normal and you find them easy
Due to how frequently the bots spam spells and get ton of Gold unit or ruin your entire army so they nerf it but they overdose it and they're now trash
Oh the game is so "easy" huh, Well, I wana see y'all speedrun the whole game on insane without upgrades, skins, spells, and using the classic statue, then describe how "easy" it is
So7, what do you exactly dislike about archidon rain? Hypothetically, if the devs made archer rain a lot stronger and increased the gem price to compensate for the stronger effect, would it make it a better spell in your opinion? I'm curious to know you opinion.
@@bluefurryman I think he talks about how when the tournament characters use archer rain it becomes very strong, but whenever he uses the archer rain it misses all the time. I don't this is really true, and this really make sense. I have seen people use the spell. Sometimes, it doesn't work and doesn't kill a unit, but a lot of time is does kill units.
at this point i think the "new and improved" tournament might be even worse ALSO WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO MAKE IT SO THE AI CAN ACTUALLY USE THEIR GOLD IN DEATHMATCH?
Why don't make the spell frequency and speed of use MORE,this will make it harder because voltaic swordwafth spam just make it TOO EASY,like COME ON MAN like why,and WHY did the devs make the user control less frequent like 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 BRUH.
Maybe one of these days they'll get it down...
your mods are better than the tournament mode fr
Nope. Theyll never get it down. Definitely without you
@@zerotoheroyt6308 Yeah I feel like CrazyJay made a mistake
It only took me 2 attempts to fully master the revamped tournament mode when it was first release, to be honest it wasn't that incredibly hard, even in insane mode because everyone has a simple counterplay to it, Death Fang got the hardest nerf since his main gimmick was he would summon and spam deads in the early game to overwhelm you, give you a somewhat challenging unpleasant start but now he genuinely feels like a second round opponent, he got absolutely nerfed into oblivion, come on Stick War Devs!!! YA'LL BETTER THAN THIS!!, Feels like their mocking the skills of SWL veterans by nerfing the opponents that gave us the most trouble, also for new players, they can just play the game in normal or hard mode until they mastered the tournament completely, I find it weird that they also had to nerf the opponents that barely gave us any trouble at all like what is the logic honestly...they made the easier opponents, even easier and it feels sad honestly, they didn't deserve the nerf at all
I like how they took suggestion from those who want to not live a happy life but rather making themselves suffer with difficult ass challenge
And now they made those annoying but challenging bot completely garbage
I really wonder why people find the last tournament fights difficult, personally I have a comp that I drop very often when I don't want to break my head, and which is auto-win even in insane mode: golden giant statue + a good giant skin (leaf, savage, voltaic, lava or even undead) and the giant avatar. in almost all fights I win directly because there is nothing that can counter it, if there is a griffin or a kai rider I control a giant and I hit the statue more easily and I win, 12 giant is just impossible to kill. and that's if I'm not playing a classic army, but unleashing giants is just too strong and fun, especially if it's a lava or voltaic giant, and you can win very easily without overusing expensive spells , it's free, fun and much too strong. I really think that making the tournament even easier than it already is will only end the game, because if you play well, you get through the game very quickly, and if there is no more challenge... it's not fun
If it was too difficult just don't play insane mode what's this logic mannn
for a game as easy as stick war legacy (even on insane difficulty), doing that is reasonable
“if it isnt that hard of a challenge anymore on insane mode nerf it mann”
he got better idiot
whats your logic mann
"Pro strats"
-Cyrus after spending 500 gems in 30 seconds
The same way you beat him when you were a noob
I'm writing a complete strategy article on all modes for all characters after the second round of the tournament, and I'm losing motivation because of this nerf. Unless they reconsider and revert to the original specs, I can't bring myself to write the rest of the article.
Oh dang,now Developers doesn't know what reduce and remove is. How wonderful,what next? 🙂
Unlimited tournament entries was the sole purpose of me getting the infinity fan pack. I like a challenge but with this it's just sad
Before the update even the hardest enemies (hacker and Cyrus) I was able to absolutely annihilate by just spamming voltaic giants on amolst every game mode (expect for gold rush, there I go for 4 swords strat to cause damage and THEN get the giants) and hardest difficulty of course.
Now it feels so piss easy I'd rather die than try and play it.
okay, because they got nerfed, now the tournament is no longer too challenging for me
Challenging? Why because you only play on insane mode? You know there are normal and hard mode for a reason
@@TarinaYasmin-iw5rm I play normal and hard, but I always play insane
@@Gemslord_Moonsaber64 , if it's too challenging on normal, I'm very concerned with your skill issue
Why did they have to do this on insane mode? I wouldn't have mind it if it's normal and hard but come on, what did you expect when you play on the *HARDEST DIFFICULTY OF THE GAME!*
The nerfs are ridiculous
they should add custom tournament mods enemies where you can pick its difficulty and you can use other enemies from other players and be able to make your own tournaments and share your tournaments with other players
Why are the devs nerfing something that they made perfectly 💀🙏
I ain't updating then
Honestly, I want the Tournament to be like the first one. I feel like I'm guessing well. But after the nerf, It's more like pleasing new players. I feel like it's no longer challenging now. Really want to take the old model and put it in a very difficult level. and put the new one in at normal level Which should be very suitable for new players. Because if we keep playing, players like us will remember how the bots play. And that's important for the tournament mode. The uniqueness of the bot, which has more ways to fight players than before. It looks fun and not boring. Because it's like we met a real person.
It's a damn shame what happened here really
The best AI upgrade would be to make it learn from videos somehow and feed it skilled gameplay . like , the best of everything . it would feel like fighting multiple actual pros at once .
but why would they do that when they can randomly increase and decrease numbers to balance it (not really)
That sounds like something not even triple AAA game developers can accomplish.
@@thatskeletordude5271 i heard of AI that learn from things. Some even players. But that AI was more live learning. So it would learn something as its happening and be better at that next time around
But machine learning is very expensive and definitely wouldn't happen in just a day or 2. Keep in mind that Max Games is a small studio, and that they probably can't afford to do such a thing. And let's be honest, if they could do it, they would do it with SW3 first.
@@strategicblover5707well yea. I never sayd it would take only a few days. And I dont know enough about AI learning and max games studio to say right now what can be done or not.
But i have seen like 1 good decision with the AI. And it was undone now so we are down to 0
@@tacticalmadnessTM Instead of doing machine learning which is very expensive, they could just do some coding perhaps. I don't know a lot of coding myself, but I think it might be possible.
For example, if the enemy player has magikill, then use spearton spear throw to kill. They could just make the spear always hit the intended target for insane.
Another example is having the pro players on insane UC voltaic archers to snipe and insta-kill your economy like the player. Make the shots always land. If a player UC one of their own archers, make so that the player UC shots will never hit the AI UC archer. The AI controlled archer will do up/down whenever there is player UC archer near it to give the illusion that the archer is dodging the arrow shots. The AI will also then shifts its priotrity from killing miners to killing army units if the player makes any army units. However, the AI archer can still be hit and killed by non UC archers. This could be crazy especially on barricades and would add a new level of challenge to know you are basically fighting a perfectly UC archer that will perfectly dodge all player arrows and one wrong mistake could lead to getting insta-killed.
Another example is have the pro players on insane use the best/most optimal skin combos and user-controlling to take advantage (Lava/voltaic giants to just obliterate units and targest the backline like the archers/magikill, UC fast moving, stun resistant, savage spearton to spear throw and kill high-priority magikill, voltaic archer to snipe units like I said above, undead magikill, leaf miner, etcs)
Finally, on deathmatch/super death match, the AI needs to be more aggressive. Why do they build swords and archers first? How do they not build like giants, magikill, and spears? That needs to be changed.
Also image the proplayers like Cyrus, Ruthless, CrazyJay, or Hacker.Exe with these changes. Actually, just imagine hacker.exe with his multi-skin units and him UCing them like a champ. The other pros would also become very very challenging on insane.
These are just some ideas. Obviously, this is refering insane mode. Normal and hard mode probs shouldn't receive these changes. (UC=user-controlled)
In short, legacy started treating its players like stupid children.
That's the majority of the fanbase in a nutshell.
True
@@thatskeletordude5271 And because it's the majority the devs think what they're doing is good. Everything really fell over ever since legacy happened.
@@Umbra185 most feedback were taken from the discord server, and they were from people who actively play the game (including me), they might been a chance that just take more feedback from private emails, but overall the discord server was where the devs was commonly interacting with the community.
@@clementchuah6706 I know. But even in the discord server, literally no one wanted this tournament nerf to happen.
"Should we give the AI skill?
Nah, lets give em skins.
Thier skill level are based on how many spell they spam"
-SWL Devs
I mean before the tournament mod rework the oldest enemy AI'S has lot's of skills but it was still not enough too make the tournament mod hard
but atleast it would be better if AI has skills and skins (both) instead of AI just having a skins
Holee fuk the Stick War franchise keeps taking Ls
I will put the explanation below👇
Explanation
Sadness 😔
i had trouble with ruthless though
To s07:
If we know that the tournament mode nerf was made as a direct result of the majority of the player's complaints and feedback, instead of calling them out like they're 'skill issue', why not try to reason out with them?
For I can guarantee calling them out is not going to help anyone and will only make things worse. Neither with the perceived mindset of "hey, you're a lot weaker as a player than I am so you're not worth my time" will give results.
There is a firm standing that even if there's super good players like us, the majority of the players may not be as well developed or highly skilled in Stick War compared to us. But, if that group of fanbase outnumber us by a landslide, the developers made the choice to change it to suit them, that's the new reality we have entered in and it is important the strong players like us understand that.
Yes I agree with your strong, valid opinion that the new tournament mode in Insane is totally garbage, or feels like Normal difficulty. Maybe even easier than Normal Difficulty.
I believe the right course of action now is to talk and be as nice as possible to the community. Ask them the questions: what exactly is the root cause that made them complain to the devs that the Insane mode deserves such nerf? Was their units stats too tough? Too much Archidon rain? Not enough gems?
If they really cannot handle that kind of difficulty on Insane on the old tournament mode...
Then we guide them how to do it(not that it's possible now), and eventually our guidance can clear their doubts and not to complain the "Insane mode nerf" again to the devs.
Or politely ask them to try Normal or Hard mode first. That's exactly what that modes are for -catering to the majority of the fanbase.
Like it or not, just as our opinions do matter. The new player's opinions will matter to the developers as well so that's something we have to look at.
Get their detailed feedback, and be friends with these new players. That's gonna help in the long run, especially when you have a friendly personality!
sean893
I understand your points, but I also feel like I'm getting misunderstood here.
I understand if SWL only had 1 difficulty option and everyone had no choice but to play that. Then this would make sense.
But Normal and Hard difficulty exists as easier options if someone plays on Insane and finds it too difficult. It's a natural course of action. If something is too hard, then play on an easier difficulty.
There are alot of players that want a good challenge on Insane and SWL as a whole is a reasonably easy game.
But it isn't fair to those players if less experienced ones, who chose to play on the highest difficulty, are experiencing problems and are wanting nerfs on the highest difficulty, especially when there are two easier options.
And I'm not saying that nerfs shouldn't have happened at all. Because they definitely did. And I stated that. The issues is the nerfs were taken way too far and as a result, the tournament is a joke on the highest difficulty, which is supposed to provide a challenge.
My statement was not to call people out and say "the tournament mode is meant to be super hard and anyone who thinks otherwise has a skill issue!" My whole point was Insane needs to remain as Insane.
Yes, totally agreed 100%!
#BringBackInsaneChallenge
i thought i was getting good damnnnnnn and i also thought it was because of the voltaic skin.
Oh Shit.... This is gonna Be Worst..
Cool
There are easy to me because I know their biggest weakness and my unit are so powerful and I beat them so easily before the nerf thing go
If you can't beat them try on normal mode because it the main reason for people who they always play on insane mode are not allowed try at normal and you find them easy
Exactly
Normal mode is for baby it's not challenging and boring to play
and hard mode it's for babies of 5 years old and insane 8 years
I don't care about insane I like playing on normal and I still playing on normal
First they asded sudden death in stick war 3 now they nerfed tournament mode? Bruh!!!!! Why?????
Whyd they nerf it lolll
Due to how frequently the bots spam spells and get ton of Gold unit or ruin your entire army so they nerf it but they overdose it and they're now trash
@@noobie1301 that's what lower difficulties are for.
@@avm36 typical Swl player dont see Normal and Hard as difficulty options
I can't even play SWL or 3 But Please fix the game because OSW Rage about the Mobile Games.
Oh the game is so "easy" huh,
Well, I wana see y'all speedrun the whole game on insane without upgrades, skins, spells, and using the classic statue, then describe how "easy" it is
if the only reason it's hard is because of a self imposed challenge, it's easy
They couldve just removed archidon rain...
Hi
So7, what do you exactly dislike about archidon rain? Hypothetically, if the devs made archer rain a lot stronger and increased the gem price to compensate for the stronger effect, would it make it a better spell in your opinion? I'm curious to know you opinion.
How would u improve archer rain as a spell? (Talkign to So7 but anyone reading could answer too)
@@ak.5620I honestly don't know what his problem...he said archidon is too weak to kill unit but strong enough to snipe miner
Or atleast that what I think the reason is..also a buff could make it similar to kytchu ability
@@bluefurryman I think he talks about how when the tournament characters use archer rain it becomes very strong, but whenever he uses the archer rain it misses all the time. I don't this is really true, and this really make sense. I have seen people use the spell. Sometimes, it doesn't work and doesn't kill a unit, but a lot of time is does kill units.
@@bluefurryman Like targeted volley in stick war 3? I was thinking maybe just like swordwrath rage but for archers.
The tournament is no longer challenging
#fixtheStickWaruniverse
I agree that
at this point i think the "new and improved" tournament might be even worse
ALSO WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO MAKE IT SO THE AI CAN ACTUALLY USE THEIR GOLD IN DEATHMATCH?
Difficult?
Why don't make the spell frequency and speed of use MORE,this will make it harder because voltaic swordwafth spam just make it TOO EASY,like COME ON MAN like why,and WHY did the devs make the user control less frequent like 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀 BRUH.
you do not make sense right now
@@Zortcell idk?
@@Zortcell it's too easy
@@Zortcell I played and beat it in 5 minutes
@@Agent4.1203 you sound like you're flexing but ok